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Greetings fellow parents,

My daughter received a "nomination" to participate in the 2004 International Mission on Diplomacy. She received the package at her home address but it was addressed to "The Parents of ..." I have tried to research the program and its organizers. I get to Envision EMI, Inc. That's a for-profit group that consults with several non-profits including the International Missions, and the Leadership Bootcamp. I believe there are others too. In another forum on the site where we are now, there was a spirited discussion about a program called the National Youth Leadership Forum on Technology which is run by this same group. To make a long story short, this looks like a marketing scam to make the student think she is something special for receiving this invitation when in fact it's nothing more than a bulk mailing for a very pricey study-abroad program. One amusing note - my daughter is a later-in-life student. She's 33. But since she's a recent entrant into the college world (just finished community college with honors and is in the honors program at the University of Arizona as a junior), she hasn't received too much of this kind of stuff yet. I'm the cynical one and I don't trust this pitch.

Anyone have any direct experience with programs run by Envision EMI? And specifically, the International Mission on Diplomacy?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

John in Tucson

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 10:38 am: Edit

I do not have direct experience with this program but can offer my opinion. Actually my daughter got a fancy invitation for the National Youth Leadership Forum on Medicine and also the National Youth Leadership Forum on Law during high school. At our school, that was selective as they only nominated one student to these programs to get this invitation. But from reading posts on this forum, I have learned that in other locations, it is not as selective and tons of people got such invitations. My daughter thought they sounded interesting but did not elect to participate. The Medicine one overlapped another six week travel program she was going on so it could not be done. The Law one sounded interesting but my D said that she could not see spending the money which would have been difficult, nor missing school (also difficult) for a field she felt she likely was not going to go into and she already had an expensive summer travel program lined up that year and felt that was enough. Had she been very into Law as a career, I would have considered finding a way to send her. My daughter just got an invitation about being selected for the People to People program to do a tennis tour in Europe. My daughter will not be doing it as she has to work this summer before starting college, plus went on a different tennis tour of Europe last summer as it were. But my other D's best friend did a People to People basketball tour to Australia one summer and it was good. I do not think any of these programs are "scams". They are legitimate programs but just not as "selective" as they appear. They are not an award or something. And they cost money. However, if you are not concerned whether or not the program will "look good" as some honor or some such and simply want your child to have a worthwhile experience in a program with particular features, these type of programs might be worth looking into. I have interviewed kids for college admissions who have done the National Youth Leadership Forums and have enjoyed them. If you do not think in terms of it being some honor, and simply as being an educational program that suits your child's interests, than that is basically what these are about. A scam is more something that takes your money but offers you nothing in return. Things like Who's Who in High School are of that ilk. They take your money, it is no honor, and you get your name in some book.

My opinion is if your daughter is interested in an international experience, look into MANY programs that offer that. The one you received may be quite worthwhile but likely is not a huge honor and it costs money like any program you could have selected yourself rather than them mailing something to you. I have had a child go on travel programs and we researched them fully. We looked at many programs, narrowed those down, talked to directors, got names of students/parents who have participated in the past and contacted them. If I were you, and your daughter was interested in the type of program like the one you got in the mail, I would look into several of that sort. I would consider the one you received in the mail if the program suits her needs and desires and forget about it being some honor or very selective cause it may not be. I am not sure, however, if that really matters. It is simply the experience itself.

Susan

By Bluealien01 (Bluealien01) on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 01:31 pm: Edit

I got that letter too. Still wondering if it is fake or not...like that Who's Who thing. Certainly is expensive though, and for whatever reason they said "we do not have her adddress"(referring to me in parent letter). Hmmm.....

By Jj_In_Tucson (Jj_In_Tucson) on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess I need to strip this down to its basics. I will agree that it's not a scam in the common sense - it's not an outright theft of tuition dollars. Is it an exclusive invitation? Probably not. Is it a resume enhancer? Maybe, but probably not. Will there be some value? Probably.

So I guess the bottom line questions are: For the time and money - is it a good value? There probably won't be too many trips like this for my daughter during her college career. If we can only afford one - is this a good choice? Or are there programs run by organizations with a less byzantine financial structure that provide a quality experience at a more reasonable price?

Soozievt suggests we do our research on these types of programs. I think that's excellent advice. I consider these postings as part of my research. I'm still hoping there's a reader out there who went (or had a child who went) on this specific trip.

The Better Business Bureau, of which Envision EMI is a member, reports: "Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. The Bureau has processed no customer complaints on this company in its three-year reporting period." That's a good sign but given the way the companies are split up, it's hard to tell where complaints, if any, would show up.

Thanks again for the input so far. I look forward to any additional contributions.

John in Tucson

By Bluealien01 (Bluealien01) on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 04:40 pm: Edit

Someone on an AOL message board said it wasn't fake. Even if I could afford to go, I probably wouldn't. I seriously do not function very well on vacations. I can't sleep, sometimes cannot eat, and I get headaches....everyday. I don't know what the deal is with that, but I will be so messed up when I move away from home....LOL

By 2ivies (2ivies) on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

I have had two daughters that have done the NYLF on Medicine in Boston for high school students. They were excellent experiences for both.

One daughter was schedule to participate last summer in the NYLF International Forum on Medicine in China last summer, but because of SARS it was postpone till next summer. I am sure it will a great experience for her also.

One of my daughters who is interested in becoming a surgeon was able to watch a surgery at the Brown Medical School in the operating room. That experience was priceless.

By Av8r67 (Av8r67) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:43 pm: Edit

The NYLF and International Mission progrmas are in no way "scams" or in any way fake. Though the programs may not be as selective as the letters proclaim them to be, it is most definitely an absolutely wonderful program to be able to participate in. Average performing students are not invited to such programs and having personally been to both the NYFL forum on Defense and the Internatioal Mission on Diplomacy in China, I can honestly say I met and still keep in touch with an extremely intelligent and lofty aiming group of people.

I ask you how else one might be able to organize a trip in Washington D.C. to see the CIA headquarters in Langely, Virginia or travel as VIPs to a demonstration at a high security armed forces weapons test center. I both met personally with and heard accounts from people extremely accomplished in their fields ranging from former CIA operatives to current members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

China was the trip of a lifetime. Meeting with high level members in the Chinese government and experiencing the Chinese culture from different aspects in the same trip was an opportunity that I imagine few ever will have. It was the kind of experience that will change your life forever in its purest form.

While pricey these trips may be, you must ask yourself why you would be going on this kind of trip before you go. If you want or your child wants to go simply because it will mean some kind of honor to be recognized by others, then this may not be the trip for you. The ones who get the most out of these trips are those who go to make themselves better people by exploring and area that they are interested in and learning things about themselves and the world around them. Sure, the organization that puts on these programs want their money, just like any other business, but this happens to be a business that will pay you back in an experience far more valuable than the money you hand over to them ever was. How the nomination process fully operates I'm not exactly sure, but I don't exactly care either. It is the experience you pay for and while you can indeed put something like this on a resume or college application, it is the well rounded person that will result from a trip like this that will matter the most in the end. Always remember the big picture.

By Cmae (Cmae) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 10:50 am: Edit

There is virtually no information available on "experience" with the program that you inquired about. One comment was "less than favorable" with no specific details.

The organization is associated with the National Youth Leadership Foundation.
http://www.nylf.org/

One comment was a report by the Better Business Bureau that addressed "profitabilty" of the NYLF.
http://www.give.org/reports/care_dyn.asp?346

In searching GOOGLE, I found job advertisements for Academic Directors as well as the following discussion:

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?70/42037 The discussion touches on the solicitiation/recruitment by bulk mailing. You will note that the final comment does not offfer any information about the writer as far as age, sex, or date the writer traveled on they program.

I cannot recommend the program in the absence of academic endorsement. If you are interested in additional information, I would suggest that you contact them and ask how you might correspond with alumni who have participated in the specific program that interests you.

I hope this information is helpful.

By Youthscam (Youthscam) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:51 am: Edit

I am a former Director of the Technology Program. In my opinion...I would not send my child to ANY of Envision EMI's programs. Envision is a For-Profit organization that was founded by the same founders of all the Non-Profits they say are their clients. The Non-Profits turn around and hire Envision to Market and direct the programs. The perfect loophole...you get to market your noble "Non-Profit" status and rake in the money.

I'm sickened by parents that e-mail me about taking a second mortgage out on their homes to send their kid to Envision Programs. It is NOT an honor to attend. They hope for a 4% return on their impressive invitations.

These are Camps for Rich kids.