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D is finishing up her first semester of Jr year on the block scheduling so wants to take a few Sat II's in Late Jan. She is not sure what Math to take. I told her to ask her teacher and his answer was he didn't know. He is a great teacher of Math but I was shocked he had no advice for her.
She has taken ALG 1-2 8th, Geometry 9th, ALG 3-4 Trig 10th, Advanced math pre-cal 11th. Grades were B,A,B,A. Both B's from the same teacher not a good match for D. She is a smart girl but not a natural when it comes to Math. Should she take 1C or 2C. Also what kind of prep works best. She is also thinking of taking the writing. Is it to early?
She gets back her PSAT tomorrow would those scores give us an idea what math she would do best with?
Thank You for any advice

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 01:07 pm: Edit

If she got through trig, definatly take the 2C, as long as she pulled off a B. The curve is HUGE on the 2C. You can normally miss 7 or 8 and still get an 800, so it's not like you're expected to know everything. The 1C is not at all like that though. The curve is much harsher. Not to mention that colleges quite often prefer to see 2C as it is their only standardized judgement of your ability to cope with advanced math, seeing as the SAT Math and SAT II Math 1C both don't really progress much past geometry.

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 01:09 pm: Edit

Offhand, I would suggest she take Math 1c. I read on the SAT/ACT thread that although Math 1c is a bit easier, the curve for Math 2c is more generous. you may want to do some more sleuthing on the SAT/ACT thread.

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 01:15 pm: Edit

BTW, the best thing to do is go to your local bookstore and look at the Kaplan Math IC/2C book. You can see the differences between the two, not just in the questions but look at the scoring sheet to see how the curve is.

By Nhfrenchie (Nhfrenchie) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 01:21 pm: Edit

I believe that it all depends on what your daughter wants to pursue in college. If she's not interested in engineering or sciences, then it may be Math IC. If she is interested, then Math IIC.

Many schools don't use the SATII's for admissions but if admitted, for the student,s placement in the appropriate Math section.

Also, many of the schools that want to see SATII's and depending on the major, will tell you which one they want to see.

By Elleneast (Elleneast) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 01:22 pm: Edit

From what I have seen listed on these boards, more kids are listing 2C results than 1C so it would seem that more students take the 2C if they feel that they are prepared. If memory serves, my daughter took 1C at the end of her freshman year and 2C during junior....but that was when score choice was still in place. I think that students are justifyably more cautious in what tests they take now as all of their scores are sent out.

When my daughter was debating which Sat ll's to sign up for she found it very helpful to go to our local Border's Book Store where she looked through prep books. It gave her a sense of her level of preparedness for the various tests. She bought prep books for a couple of the tests and worked on them at home. I remember that inspite of having done very well in a particular class ( I think it was physics) she did not take the SAT ll because she saw when looking through the prep book that her instructor had not covered nearly enough material and she just didn't have the time to try to teach herself what she felt was necessary to do reasonably well.

By Muzicgal04 (Muzicgal04) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:21 pm: Edit

I took both, and did equally.....take that as you will (and equally was a 680)

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Fulfilling math requirement in college can be done by taking an algebra course or something similar. I don't know of any college demanding that non-science majors except in economics take Calculus. So proving that one can do advanced math may not be necessary. My kid did well enough in Pre-Calc (A-), but knowing that he was not destined to be a math and science major, resisted his GC's advice to take Math 2c. He took 1C and got a score in the 700s and that was enough for admission into highly selective LACs.

By Itempest (Itempest) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 05:23 pm: Edit

"The curve is HUGE on the 2C. You can normally miss 7 or 8 and still get an 800"

I don't think that's true, Metz. I took the 2C, I had 2 wrong and I got a 760. That said, an 800 is 91st percentile! And my 760 was in the 70s...

The 2C is very much of an elite test, but that said, Mom60, if your daughter finished Trig, I too would suggest the 2C. Just make sure she does every question to the best of her ability and answers them all and practices hard before hand.

My first outing with this test resulted in a 700 and I was appalled considering I always thought of myself as a good math student.

By Kluge (Kluge) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 06:36 pm: Edit

We looked over this last year, and after going over what was on the two tests decided that 1C was the right choice for my son, because 2C tested some areas he hadn't taken in school. But somehow he ended up taking 2C instead (we're not sure how that happened.) Since he scored higher on that test than his other SAT2's, (although lower than his SAT1 math score) we just let it go. I'm inclined to agree with those who say that the scoring of the 2C may be more "forgiving" than that of the 1C.

By Sailorgirl1985 (Sailorgirl1985) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 07:19 pm: Edit

I don't agree with Metz or Itempest, I believe on 2C you can miss more like 4 and still get an 800. I have a friend who missed 5-6 and got 780. I got a 90th percentile for my 800 on 2C. It just tests basic pre-calculus topics...

By Itempest (Itempest) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Well, then perhaps the curves are somewhat changed, eh?

I have my score report thingy right here...2 wrong...760.

"It just tests basic precalculus" - agreed. A lot of people have done precalculus. A lot haven't. Those who haven't, take the 1C making (forgive me if anyone is somehow offended) the scoring of the 2C among the more competitive math students making an 800 less of an accomplishment (hence the 90th percentile instead of the customary 99th).

Oh well, I wouldn't obsess over which test to take and how much leeway you have before losing the 800. If you know the stuff on the 2C, take it. If you don't know the stuff on the 2C, take the 1C. If you can do something never opt for something easier thinking you can do better. Challenge yourself. That's my philosophy, anyway.

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 07:47 pm: Edit

since when did missing 2 get you only 760??...then the curve is ven harsher than 1c and theres no reason whatsoever in taking 2c

By Itempest (Itempest) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 07:52 pm: Edit

Yes, that's what I am trying to say. The curve is harsher than the 1C - because all the smart AIME qualifying, AP Calc, Honors students take the 2C and (forgive me, once again, for saying this) all the other students take the 1C. The 2C is a joke for someone who has taken or is enrolled in classes like BC Calc AP, AB Calc AP, etc. Hence, only the 90th percentile for someone with an 800.

That said, I believe there is a point in taking the 2C. If you've taken a certain level of advanced math in high school, gotten decent grades and then take the 1C, they'll likely see that as some ploy on your part to show them an 800 as opposed to something else. That's why I said, if you can do it and your education reflects that you can - then do it!

By Gabushida (Gabushida) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Actually, I am in AP Calc BC and find it easier than pre-calc. Its really a different kind of math. I took both IC and IIC, and got the same score (720), which kind of baffled me. Math has always been my best subject, and I thought it would be my best. The IIC curve is much more generous, but that doesnt mean it should be taken lightly. There are a some rather challenging questions on it.

By Tt16384 (Tt16384) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 09:16 pm: Edit

I'd agree with Gabushida; calculus (BC) was the easiest maths class I'd ever taken. I found the IIC test (like the Chemistry SAT-II) more challenging than the equivalent AP test.

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Okay, the problem is the discrpency between what "curve" means. The curve is a reference to your score NOT your percentile. In otherwords you can miss 6+ and get an 800 on the 2C but only miss one or so to get an 800 on the 1C.

Yes an 800 on the two tests represents a difference in percentile, but that doesn't matter. The score represents a level of achievment. A 700 on two different tests is looked at equally by a college even if there is a difference in percentile.

By Muzicgal04 (Muzicgal04) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 04:41 pm: Edit

I am in Calc AB and got a 680 on both, so I dont think that necessarily means anything. However, I would agree that the group of people taking 2C tend to be stronger math students.

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 04:58 pm: Edit

She looked through a prep book and has decided to take the 2c. She doesn't seem the least bit stressed. I am trying to gently remind her that this break is a good time to do some prep but we shall see how much actually gets done.

By Ellemenope (Ellemenope) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:42 am: Edit

My D prepped with the book SAT 1600--the math section gave some good tips on how to approach problems that she found useful.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:08 am: Edit

What kind of college does she plan to go to and what does she plan to major in? What courses is she best in?

Unless she's excellent in math and/or planning to major in math or science and/or go to an engineering school or be in a 6-year premed major, she may be better off not taking any math SAT II.

Engineering schools, 6-year med school programs typically will require applicants to take math and science SAT IIs. Colleges also will expect to see such things if a student plans to major in math, architecture, biology, etc.

Otherwise, the relatively few colleges that require SAT IIs at all (and these typically are top 25 schools) require only the SAT II writing and up to 2 SAT IIs completely of the applicant's choice. If the applicant is very strong in the humanities or in verbal skills, it's perfectly fine to take, for instance, SAT II writing, SAT II American history, SAT II English literature, which is what my older son, who planned to be a humanities or social sciences major, did.

It really is a time to play to the student's strengths.

I am fairly sure that one can't pick and choose which SAT II reports to send to colleges, so if a student is not that good in a subject, but doesn't have to take the SAT II in that area, it may not be a good idea for the student to take that SAT II.

Spring semester will she still be taking math courses that would help her with the SAT II? If so, it probably would be wiser for her to take the SAT II in May or June, when she's more prepared to do well on them. That's when I had my older son take his SAT IIs, which ended up being, too, nice review for his finals.

This left fall semester as a back-up time to take the SAT IIs if he felt he needed to improve his scores. Fortunately, he did well on the 3 SAT IIs he took junior year, so he didn't need to bother taking any in the fall, which is a very busy time for seniors.

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Northstarmom- She is still very wishy washy as to where she would like to go. We live in Ca and she is pretty sure she would like to try the east coast for college. We live in a small city that is a tourist destination she would like to be near a large city. She will apply to some UC's as well in case she has cold feet at the last minute about going so far from home. The UC's require a Math Sat II and the writing and one of your choice. So she needs to take a math. She is a extremely strong well rounded student. All gate and honors courses since 7th grade and over a 4.0 gpa. She has to work harder in the math and sciences but not significantly. The B's in Alg 1 and in 3-4 Trig were both weighted classes with the same teacher. D and parents thought D had actually come to the realization that she was not strong at Math. After breezing through Math this year we realize that the teacher and D were not a match and we should have gone with our gut feeling last year to switch her to a different teacher. The teacher this year is undoing some of the damage to D self-esteen. Our high school is on a 4x4 block scheduling so after Jan 31 D will not have Math again this year. This might actually be her last Math class in high school as she is hesitate about AP Cal. She will probably take AP Stat instead.
She is an avid reader and has loved her history classes and philosophy type courses. She has thought about majoring in history or classics or international relations. She is somewhat interested in hotel management but I am hoping she studies something broader in case she changes her mind. She is interested in travel abroad. Most schools with those programs are large schools that are safety type schools for her. I think she is more interested in a school that feels right versus one that has a particular field of study as she is very undecided about what field she wants. At times still has a interest in Arch and Vet science. She has had one visit east and saw William and Mary and Mary Washington, American, Georgetown and George Washington. She liked Georgetown and George Washington. But realizes Georgetown is a long shot. William and Mary felt to small and out of the way. We are going to go East at the end of March to see some schools. She is not interested in big name schools.
I am hoping that she does well enough on the Math to not take it more them one time. The writing I think she will probably take more then once depending on how she does. She will have 2 AP classes in the spring semester and also take another Sat II based on those classes and the Sat I as well so I am pushing her to get a few out of the way early.
I enjoy reading your posts they are very informative and quite realistic.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:23 pm: Edit

Mom60,
Has your daughter done any summer programs in the sciences? There are many, including subsidized ones that are for girls of any race. Being involved in such a program could help your daughter determine whether she wants to go into a science field, and participation also would boost her chances of college admission (since she'd be showing a willingness to use her free time for intellectual pursuits).

Is she looking at Smith, which I understand has some special programs for girls interested in the sciences? As an excellent LAC, it also should offer wonderful options in her other interest areas.

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 05:41 pm: Edit

From all the posts about Smith it sounds like a wonderful school. She is not interested in a all female school. Though I am thinking if I can get her to look at Wellesley on the pretence that we are in Boston. She has always prefer to have males as friends. She just feels that they are easier to deal with and you always know where you stand with them. She is not patient with all the business that goes on with girls that I don't see her at a all women's college.
She has not done any academics in summer aside from her own reading. She has done alot of community service. Last summer she went to the south to rebuild a African American church that had been burnt down. She is interested in doing that again. She discovered she is quite good at construction work.
She is also interested in going to Sikkum India this summer with a program through Where there be Dragons.
Her father would like her to spend the summer getting an idea of the real world like getting a job that actually pays a salary. She is blocking that one out.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 05:49 pm: Edit

Mom60,
Since your daughter likes construction, would she be interested in being on a Student Conservation Association work team in the national parks? You can find info by doing an Internet search. I think that once students are in college, they can do this work as paid internships.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:00 pm: Edit

Mom60...just picking up on the fact that your daughter does not want to go to an all girls school...

My daughter did not look at womens' colleges either. Like your daughter, she has liked being around boys as friends (though does not really date yet). She was never one to be into some of the petty girl friendship trials and tribulations ever. In any case, we never looked at the all girls' schools. She narrowed her college list early in junior year and set out to visit them all that year. Late in the school year, after thinking the list was pretty set, once in a while I would learn of a school or look one up just to make sure she had explored all the ones that met her criteria for selection. I do not remember why exactly but I looked up Smith one day and found that all the things my daughter was looking for in a college was at Smith (just for example, many challenging schools did not offer an architecture major and finding another one that did was like, voila!) but Smith offered just about everything she had wanted but it was all girls. We knew several girls from our high school attending Smith who all loved it. I showed the site to my daughter, plus the fact that there is the five college consortium so while not living directly with boys, they interact in classes and social things with boys. She saw how it had what she wanted (even a varsity ski team she thought she would make) and said to me that she did not want to be closed minded about all girls and asked if she could visit Smith in fall of senior year even though we thought we were done the visits. Also, Smith rounded her list out cause it is not as much of a reach as her other schools, more of a match and those sometimes are hard to find enough of. Anyway, she visited, loved it, would be happy to attend, had some good personal contacts. If your daughter likes science, they not only have a summer program there but they would likely love getting more science girls there. Anyway, if you happen to visit any schools nearby like Amherst or Williams, you could just swing by Smith and see what she thinks. Let her know that there are many girls there who originally never sought out all girls either. Just a thought.
Susan