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Hello~ I know this is the parents' board but the people here tend to be knowledgable so I'm directing my questions here. Does anyone have a son or daughter who went to early college or is applying? Does anyone know anything about it? I'm esp. interested in Simon Rock. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks!

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 04:25 pm: Edit

My S is currently a sophomore. He will graduate early (though at 17, so not *that* early* in terms of age) because he has already exhausted high school math and science courses. A college like Simon's Rock would not suit his needs. In fact, he will probably need to be at a university rather than a LAC in order to have access to graduate level math courses.

How early is early for you? And why do you wish to go early? This will determine whether you should consider Simon's Rock or some more conventional college.

By Chrisd (Chrisd) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 04:28 pm: Edit

We have a family friend who skipped some grades in school, and will be finishing his undergraduate degree at age 19. He's done just fine in school, but I wonder what is the point in graduating so early--get in to the work world early? There will be enough years for that, and as the cliche goes, you're only young once. I'd look for something "extra" in an early college situation; maybe a gap year, maybe a year abroad, not just getting out early.

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Chrisd:

I beg to differ with you. We each have our different ways of being young. There are many young people who are more than ready to be in college well before 18. The high school cutups are as likely to be the intelligent but underchallenged kids as the disengaged and struggling ones. The literature on the gifted is full of stories of boys and girls who were insufficiently challenged in school and acquired bad learning habits (in other words, not putting forth any effort. They are the kids with perfect SATs and often mediocre GPAs.They are known as underachievers and are avoided by colleges.

In 6th grade, my S was on the verge of being a delinquent out of sheer boredom. I had to constantly apologize to his teachers for his very truthful portfolio letters in which his answers to the question "What have you learned in the math unit we just completed/" were invariably" "Absolutely nothing. Why do we have to study this again?" In 7th grade, he was allowed to study Calculus on his own and became a model student. He has thrived from doing math and science at his level and at his pace, which is much faster than the regular high school pace. He took high school science at CTY (one year's worth of science compressed in 3 weeks) because he was afraid high school honors science was too slow. He exhausted all high school math before he got to high school. He is now taking math courses at Harvard and doing better than the rest of the class of undergraduates. He does his best work when he is challenged, and his worst work when he finds it tedious. If he stays in high school for the full four years, I fear a repeat of his 5th and 6th grades experience.
A year abroad can be a wonderful experience for somebody interested in the humanities or social science but not necessarily for someone who loves math. My S's idea of summer fun? 15 hours of math a day six days a week for six weeks (aka PROMYS).

I know a young woman who graduated early and was admitted early at Yale. Her parents did not want her to attend too early so kept her home with the idea that she would pursue some extra-curricular interests (she is a fine musician). Within a couple of months, she was bored enough to audit four classes at her local college (a prestigious one). She would have done as well going to Yale the year she was admitted and taking similar courses for credit.
By the way, one of my S's heroes is Erik Demaine, Ph.D. in math at 20, MIT professor, MacArthur "genius" grant recipient at 22.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 04:59 pm: Edit

The topic of academic acceleration is an interesting one, and a lot has been written on it. I suggest you do a bit of research and you will probably find better information than here.

Early entry to college is only one form. Marite, on this site, has sought other forms. Also, there are many resources available for academic acceleration within exisiting school settings, such as Stanford's EPGY.

The Center for Talented Youth at Johns Hopkins has studied this topic for some years. At one time they advocated radical acceleration (grade skipping several years ahead of peers) but have de-emphasized it in recent years, for a variety of reasons.

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 05:22 pm: Edit

Two sources of information, besides CTY, on early college, acceleration and gifted education more generally are hoagiesgifted.org and the Davidson Institute for Talent Development (ditd.org).

By Aravis (Aravis) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Marite: I'm a soph right now. I was planning on going to early college next school year(if I get in!)The reason I want to get out early? The biggest reason is because I'm bored in school. I'm not that strong in math/science but I consider a pretty good humanities/social science student. My world history teacher has nothing to teach me, I think I would profit more if I could spend the time in her class reading history books.(esp. historical fiction, one of my fav. ways of learning) I'm still trying to get over the fact that when a student said Troy was built by the Greeks, she didn't say anything. She's a 1st year world history teacher, she taught civics last year. So I'm learning zilch in that class. English? My teacher is rumoured to take off points if your notebook.... isn't colorful enough. And I'm in all honor classes too. I've been looking up a lot of information on giftedness and underachievers and I realized I'm a classic underachiever. That's another reason I want to get out. I'm afraid I'm going to keep going like that until I'm "challenged" enough. Death to endless worksheets!
Chrisd: My reason for getting out early is not to enter the work world early, it's simply I'm going to go insane of sheer boredom soon in school. Besides my school won't let me graduate early not matter what. They're very rigid folks. I'm thinking of trying to convince my GC to let me do dual-enrollment with SRC or some other place. Or get a GED maybe. I never properly graduated middle school in the first place so I'm not that concerned with graduating high school properly either. I'm not sure what my parents would think of a gap year. It's not exactly a traditional thing in Korea where they live.(I live in the USA) A year abroad wouldn't work either. I've already lived abroad for 5 of my 15 years.

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Aravis:

Is it possible for you to take courses at a local college (either a 4 year college or a community college)? Or to take distance-learning courses through either Johns Hopkins's CTY or STanford's EPGY? Northwestern also has courses available for gifted students in a program called Letterlinks, I believe. All of these require you to take the SAT, I think, so that they can figure out whether you qualify for certain courses.
Can you do some independent study unit with a mentor (either from the school or from elsewhere) that will earn you high school credit? Could you try, for example to participate in the National History Day competition (google for the NHD website for more information)

I sympathize with your problem, as my son has faced the same. Still, I urge you not to neglect your high school work. I've heard adcom officers dismiss applicants with perfect SATs but so-so GPAS as "underachievers."

I am reluctant to advise you to consider Simon's Rock because it is not as excellent as many other colleges you could presumably aspire to. But if you really want to consider early college, there are others besides Simon's Rock, including Mary Baldwin, which is all-female. Hoagiesgifted.org is probably your best source of information on this topic.

Good luck, and keep up your spirits

By Perry (Perry) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Aravis --

Perhaps you should look into current enrollment at a local university or community college for your humanities and social science classes. That is, you stay in your high school and complete the curriculum for math, science, and the required electives, but take your english and history classes at the local university or community college. This arrangement would have several advantages for you: 1) you would be able to take challenging courses in your areas of strength; 2) you would be able to complete college prep requirments in the other subject areas, (even if you're not interested in them, it is important to complete these courses); and 3) it would strengthen considerably your high school record and transcript for when you actually do apply to college.

My daughter is strong in the humanities,completed two AP languages (German and Latin) and the two AP english courses by the end of 10th grade, and is now concurrently enrolled at a state university pursuing upper level courses. At the same time, she is completing other requirements at high school in science, math, and mandatory electives.

I think it would be much wiser for you to pursue this approach if you are advanced, then to jump into college at the end of your sophmore year in high school. In my view, the exception would be someone like Marite's son, who will be veritably hopping right into graduate math and science courses...

By Kissy (Kissy) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:38 pm: Edit

Aravis- Perhaps this would be a good time to discuss your feelings and frustrations with your parents. The more they understand your situation, the better able they'll be to advocate for you with your school guidance counselor/administrators. Does your school have a T&G program? Sometimes, teachers of the gifted can be the most convincing advocates for underchallenged students. My children have had school experiences similar to yours. As a parent, I felt it was my responsibility to facilitate the process of finding the right solutions for them. Research your school offerings, find out what your school's policy is on dual enrollment, inquire about distance learning via computer (we liked Stanford's EPGY), and so on. Once you've armed yourself with knowledge, it will make any meetings or staffings easier for you and help you to get what you want. It always helps to have adults advocating on your behalf, so enlist the support of your parents, etc. There ARE ways to stay challenged in school, even with a less than stellar choice of available courses and teachers. As other posters before me have suggested, pursuing your passions through ECs, competitions, internships, etc. will also help. Have you considered debating? Seems like it would be a good fit for you in light of your interests. Good luck and hang in there!

By Kissy (Kissy) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:49 pm: Edit

Aravis- I just reread your post and hadn't noticed the 1st time through that your parents are in Korea. Hopefully, you can find a teacher, relative or adult friend to help guide you through.

By Aravis (Aravis) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Marite: My school will let people who are over 16 take community college courses but as of now I'm only 15 so. Also you have to have your own transportation which I don't have. I consider it extremely unlikely that I will have my own car in high school. My guardian can't drive me either on a regular basis. I have thought about distance courses and I asked my GC about it before. She says the school won't give credit for them so there's not much point in taking them. Is there any law that says if you take courses from an accredited school elsewhere you will get credit for it? The only thing they will give credit for is summer school classes that the district organizes. The majority of people in there are those who have failed...
I know I shouldn't neglect my high school work and I have endless conversations with myself about the importance of grades. But the second I have a good book in my hands all such thoughts fly away. (I figure somewhere along the line there is an amount of worksheets that you can handle and afterwards get sick of them!) School is boring... Time is relative. Watching the clock crawl in school makes me realize that fact.

I've been to Hoagiesgifted.org before, I consider it one of the best sites about "giftedness" on the web. I have looked into other early colleges. But a lot of them require you to be a state resident and I really don't want to go to a college in the middle of nowhere. Or either it's for people gifted in the math and sciences.
If I get accepted and do go there I'm not going to stay there for all 4 years. I'm going to transfer to someplace else which the majority of students seem to be doing. Oh and about Mary Baldwin? I don't really think I could adapt to an all-female environment.
Perry: As I've said before, the school district is very unflexible. They insist people follow the proper sequence. I'm taking AP Economics right now. That in itself is a highly unusual thing for a sophmore to be doing. (I doubt I'm learning much in that class though, we haven't learned anything in two weeks bc the teacher quit and they're still trying to find a new one. In addition to the fact that our grades are all messed up, we have no lesson plan and everything is in chaos) As I mentioned before it's hard for me to take classes anywhere else bc of the lack of transportation. Also since I never properly graduated middle school, my transcript is... umm confusing. And since I wasn't in the States for middle school, I never had a chance to take advanced courses(like geometry or languages in middle school)Since my school insists on prerequsites there's not that much leeway.
Kissy: I have discussed it with my mom. Her take on it is school is boring, you'll have to live with it and do the best you can in your environment. Not that much help there. Besides I have two younger sisters who keep her busy. ECs? I'm on the planning commitee for planning service projects for this service club. I help put out a french newsletter. I'm going to go to a explorers post tomorrow(it's an invited thing and I think it basically means we put out a student newspaper and get advice from professionals). I volunteer at the library. I'm in a bellydancing club. And I'm thinking of learning the harp. I think that's about it. Except for my reading books which I manage to do almost 24/7.
A person to help me? *winces* That's going to be hard to find. My teachers are mostly the type(live till Friday, work for paychecks) My aunt who is my only relative here can't speak English that well. And my guardian is busy helping out the Korean community in various matters so...

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 04:31 pm: Edit

aravis:

I am sorry things are so difficult.

Where do you live? There are some schools in NY apparently that allow you to take college classes while in high school. In Michigan, I think that Washtenaw has the same deal. The impetus behind the NY schools actually comes from Leon Bostein, the head of Bard School (to which Simon's Rock is affiliated).

If your aunt or guardian or parent is willing to spend the money, go for distance learning. Don't worry about getting high school credit for it or not. When it comes time to apply for college, you will be able to submit the appropriate proofs from EPGY or CTY or Northwestern Linkletters that you have mastered the contents of specific courses. It would be less expensive than going to Simon's Rock!

Best of luck

By Mstee (Mstee) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Do any of you have any experience with EPGY? I have no experience with it and am wondering if it might not be something my daughter might do. She is in 9th grade at an arts school, a new charter school in only its second year of operation. The school, while promising, is having growing pains, and also is not currently offering challenging science/math for my daughter. Now that she is at an arts school, her "nerd" side is feeling neglected, so to speak. She has decided that math and science are her favorite courses. She took geometry in 8th grade, but is having to repeat it because the school does not yet offer algebra II. She doesn't like that she is doing the same stuff she did last year. She is seriously thinking of changing schools for next year, but in the meantime, I want to keep her up to speed, so if the transfer does happen, she'll be able to go into pre-calc next year (assuming she does well in an algebra II course).

Another question: I am thinking that it is best to wait a year to change schools, but when I inquired about re-applying as a sophomore to the Catholic prep school (to which she chose not to go as a ninth grader), it was mentioned that there might be a possibility of making the switch this year, not waiting a full year. That sort of threw me, as I wasn't expecting that. Do any of you have any opinions about whether it is best to wait a year, or to try to switch sooner?

There are definite advantages and disadvatages to both schools. While the arts school does not seem to be able to offer the challenging academics, the "art" part of it seems very high level, and looks very promising. The Catholic college prep school has a rather lame music program, but much more rigorous traditional academics.

By Artiesdad (Artiesdad) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 09:49 pm: Edit

Hello Aravis,

Here is a summary of my experience as the father of a student who just entered college after having skipped his senior year in high school. Obviously every situation is different but here is “our” story in case it may help. I should point out that I don’t know anything about Simon Rock so I have not way to comment on that option.

My son is probably more of a typical case in the sense his progress in math/science put him in a situation where after his junior year he would have exhausted all the courses available in his school, including all math/science APs. His case was not that unique in the sense that our school district sends students to local colleges almost every year. What was different in his case is a plan he developed at the end of his sophomore year when he decided he would be willing to leave HS, but only if accepted at one of a handful of very selective schools – his top choices (all reaches.) Based on that, he purposely avoided taking a fourth year of English, which is mandatory in NJ. In a sense his high school became his safety and he would have been happy to return there, except that he got his wish and is now enrolled at his number one choice.

The application process was no different, except for an additional essay he had to write on why he wanted to leave school early. Of course he probably had a lot less pressure than he would have had as a senior. All five schools were contempt with the fact he would not be finishing high school -- at this point he will try to get an state accredited high school diploma once he completes 30 credits of college work. They based their decision, initially on his grades as a sophomore, and ultimately a mid year report of his junior year. SATs, recommendations and ECs were standard. We cannot say this for sure, but we believe the fact that he had a comparable record to qualified senior, but a year earlier, may have caught the attention of the admission officers. This may have been his "angle."

Was it the right decision? As of now the answer appears to be yes, but he has been away only a few weeks. Academically we were pretty confident he could handle the jump, so the questions were more on the emotional side. As parents my wife and I thought about it carefully but we soon realized he had been taking classes with kids 2-3 years older than him since 6th grade had. In fact as his junior year progressed we realized his true peers were the seniors that graduated the year before.

I hope this helps.

By Aravis (Aravis) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Marite: I wrote that immediately after school. I suppose that's why I sounded stressed(?)Most of my friends are like that. After school we're brain-dead. I live in North Carolina. I don't live near any "good" colleges so it it's kind of hard to find programs near me.
I visited the Linkletters site on your recc. and I liked the idea very much. Thanks for suggesting it. I think I will take a humanities or social studies course. Now the only thing is convincing my parents to pay for it...
Artiesdad: Yes, it does help. Thank you. It did seriously make me wonder where all the humanities/social sciences people have gone. Among my friends who are "gifted" they are all math/science people.
My peers? They think polysyllables is a major sign of intelligence ....(one thing which drives one of my friends crazy)

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Aravis:

Nice to see that your spirits are up. Tell your parents that paying for those distance courses will be far cheaper than sending you to private school or early college!
Don't knock colleges that are not "good," though. If there is a community college nearby, investigate, talk to an instructor there. I'll bet s/he will be delighted to work with a motivated student. If you can attend that community college, the credit you will earn will count toward admission. I was told by a Harvard admission officer that adcoms do not care in which setting you did your studies, whether it be through distance learning, at a prestigious college or at a community college. The important thing is for you to challenge yourself and enjoy yourself doing so.

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Aravis:

I reread your posts and realize you do not have transport to the local community college. One idea, though. If it has a website, look up the name of a course that interests you and if the instructor has an email address, contact that instructor, ask if you could have a copy of the syllabus and try to read on your own. The instructor might even be willing to help you out!

When my S learned Calculus on his own in 8th grade, he was extremely fortunate that a newly retired teacher at a private school volunteered to help him prepare for the AP exam via e-mail after I posted a query on a math website. He sent copies of past exam questions and corrected them. We did eventually get to meet him in person, which was very nice. There are many potential mentors out there. Best of luck in locating one!

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 06:19 pm: Edit

MsTee:

Nobody has replied to your query regarding EPGY so I'll give it a shot. I do not have personal experience with EPGY but I have been in touch with parents of students who have. They have all done math or science courses. Most said the experience was excellent, though one person said that for one course, the tutor was slow in responding and not that friendly. But the tutor for his son's other courses were great. In general, the people I've corresponded with have been happy (except for the cost which can be steep). Those who took AP level courses did well in the AP exams.

By Kissy (Kissy) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 08:43 am: Edit

Mstee- If my child was in a similar situation, I would change schools asap and go for the rigorous academics at the Catholic school. It's easier to supplement a traditionally strong academic program with ec's in the arts than the other way around. Your child, as a student at a parochial school, would also have legal rights to participate in ec's at the public school, hence having most of the same opportunities available to the magnet school students. At your child's age, the time lost on a weak and inadequate curriculum now will have consequences later on when it comes to course requirements for APs and college admissions. Not to mention boredom, too. Although we had good experiences with EPGY, it was a huge time committment and if my D had had an alternate option for attending a school with challenging classes , that would have been by far the best way to go. IMO, if a student is truly enchanted with the arts, it's easier to seek out available resources such as lessons, competitions,etc. than to deal with an intellectual appetite that isn't satiated.

By Mstee (Mstee) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Tks. Kissy, Marite. Apologies to Aravis--I should have started separate thread for this conversation.

I am still thinking of having daughter stick out the year, or at least wait until the end of the semester. The Catholic school doesn't do anything with science freshman year, so really it is the math that I want to keep her up to speed on. I am confident she can catch up in the humanities courses, though it will be a shock going from no homework to lots of homework. The Catholic school is still not at the level of what some of the kids on this board experience, but at least it covers everything. And one of the math teachers there is running a special class for the four kids who finished Calc last year as juniors, which I think is pretty cool. . ..

I hate having to let go of the awesome choral program at the arts school. Even though my daughter has proclaimed herself to be a nerd now, she bounces around singing the wonderful music she is learning in chorus, and I love it. Her voice is getting better and better, and it has only been a few weeks . . . not sure how to find a choral program at that level around here, but I will make some inquiries. It will cost some $$$, if it is something we can work into the schedule. Once we switch schools, it will be impossible to participate in any of the arts school programs--it is a charter school, and entrance is by audition. Also, schedule simply won't work. They run choir during the day, when she would be in school. Same for the local public high school, which has a nice little choir--choir is a 2nd period course. Could do individual voice lessons, I guess. Then again, with two kids in college next year and one at a private school--maybe not. Boy, trying to figure out how that is going to work financially is. . . stressful. Got to get the 17 year old to apply to at least one cheap school . . .

The EPGY thing looks intriguing. I wish I had discovered it earlier. It looks like it is something the 17 year old could have taken advantage of back in middle school. I noticed that they offer music theory. Son wants to take the AP music theory exam, and there is no course that he can take at his high school. Just another thing to think about.

A little lengthy. Tks for "listening!"

By Mistrale (Mistrale) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 05:40 pm: Edit

Mstee:

You might want to take a look at the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth distance learning course in Honors Algebra 2. If you search the CTY website for: Honors Algebra 2 Curriculum for EPGY and Academic Systems, you'll see a comparison of the two programs. (CTY offers both).

From what I hear, the Academic Systems program is a bit nicer graphically, perhaps more interactive?

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 06:57 pm: Edit

My dad had earned two college degrees before turning 19 and two master's degrees before 21. My mother graduated from High School at 15.

What did they recommend? To take full advantage of the gap year possibilities. They say they would NEVER start college that young, regardless how compelling the situation is. They encourage me to take a year away from the US system and study/travel abroad and not enter college before 19 or 20. Actually, my dad says to take 2 years off. At first, I did NOT like the idea but, now, I am seriously considering spending one year in Paris and Brussels to study areas TOTALLY distinct from my planned majors.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 07:06 pm: Edit

Xiggi:

There is a world of difference between entering college at 15 and entering at 17. I agree completely with your parents that 15 is too young. But a young 17 is fine (speaking as a former 17 year old college entrant).
If you are going to spend or one two gap years studying, why can't you not do it in the US? The point of gap years is to do something you would not be doing in college. In fact, studying in a foreign country at a young age is more of a disadvantage than entering college early (been there, done that).

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Why can't you not do it in the US?

From what I have gathered, there are entrance requirements that complicate the process. You cannot use a deferment at School A to attend School B, if both are competing schools. Similarly, you cannot simply attend a school like Harvard for a year or 2 and then start at another school without requiring a transfer. I guess it may work if you plan to attend DeVry Institute for your gap year.

Another reason to study abroad is to take classes in the local language but not necessarily to study THE language. If you have an interest in, say French, why not take classes at the Universite de Paris? Regardless of the "purported" academic prowess of US teachers in foreign languages, I doubt that their teaching in French would surpass that of La Sorbonne!

Obviously, there are a few disadvantages but no situation is ever perfect. At least, the baguettes will taste better than the offerings of Au Bon Pain

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 08:56 pm: Edit

I understand your reasoning. But if you are concerned about starting college too early, going to college abroad too early complicates matters even more since you will add unfamiliarity to immaturity. I struggled mightily in my first year in college. After I nearly bombed my economics midterm, the professor commented that he was desolated, but he could not give exams in French. For all that, the on campus housing, the cafeteria food, the access to the library, etc... made my introduction to university life far smoother than if I had gone to a European university.

The gap year is not about taking courses for or not for credit at some other university. It is to provide a respite from studying and doing something totally differrent. This will help students achieve greater maturity. If you wish to spend a year abroad before entering college, by all means do so, but why not do something that is not academic?
The baguettes will definitely taste better than the bread at Au Bon Pain, but my French nephew is addicted to McDonalds, and his sister wants Vermont maple syrup for her pancakes.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 09:10 pm: Edit

I also understand your position and I am not arguing the validity of your arguments. I am not concerned about starting college. Remember that I said that I did NOT like the idea at first. I am quite eager to experience a new environment and I did warm up to the idea on spending sometime learning or getting better in subjects that are more an hobby than a school offering. For instance, I know that I will be majoring in business but I also have a passion for photography and an affinity for foreign languages.

Regarding attending a foreign school, I believe that taking some non-credit classes -in an audit mode- does not carry as much pressure as the freshman courses in the US would. As an example, I would compare a class in Photography and Art with an Advanced Calculus class.

Regarding the food ... vive la globalisation

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 09:40 pm: Edit

I misunderstood your plans. If you wish to audit rather than take courses, then of course the pressure lessens. If you are interested in business, try INSEAD in Versailles. It's the most prestigious Business school in Europe. You'll find that everybody speaks franglais there.

Twenty-five years ago, I took my non-French speaking husband to visit Versailles (before INSEAD was established). It was winter and ordinarily Versailles was closed to visitors at that time, but my brother exerted his considerable charm on the guide who agreed to show us around. She was delighted to speak English. She'd modelled her accent on Dallas which was quite the rage on French TV then, so we were treated to a pseudo-Texan but still very French accented and totally unidiomatic description of Versailles. I suspect that with the advent of INSEAD the locals now speak with a more creditable American accent.
If you are not hell bent on getting credit for courses, and if you can manage to hook up with local family, you should have fun.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 10:20 pm: Edit

Thanks for the tip. Actually, I do know about INSEAD Fontainebleau. Two of my uncles did study there -well before I was born, think it was in late sixties or seventies!. However, I believe that it is for older students (MBA and PhD) but that may not make much difference for audits.

I was born in Dallas but I am afraid not have much of a JR accent! Thanks for the thought

By Takingiteasy (Takingiteasy) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit

I've actually am in the same situation and want to go to college in replacement of my senior year. However, i do not know what schools do it and if you guys could name some schools, i would really appreciate it. I know of Simons College but I want a school of a higher caliber. I've actually exhausted everything at my school except that i will have the final year of eng and hist left. I have around 2-3 years of extra science and have finished calc already. Also any advice would be really useful. Thanks, i've actually was looking for some info like this.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 04:32 pm: Edit

I know of early entrance program at the univeristy of washington, however you have to start that before you are 14, also univ of chicago will admit early with a GED and good scores/grades you can take GED when 16 I think

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 06:03 pm: Edit

There are a number of universities that admit students without a high school diploma, partly because they realize that there are many high-achieving homschooled students. They do not even require GED. So you could apply to one or several of those. I know Harvard, MIT Stanford, Chicago do so.

An alternative would be to spend one semester as a high school senior, get your diploma, and enter college at mid-year. Some universities welcome this strategy because of their housing crunch. I believe Cornell is one of the universities that do allow students to join at mid-year.

Finally, you could spend a semester as a senior and have a gap semester+ summer.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 02:11 pm: Edit

MsTee,

Sorry about the slow response, but we had a Yale visit the past few days.

EPGY and CTY distance learning courses:

My D did Algebra the summer before frosh year of HS (she was changing schools, and had no chance for Alg at her private school) through EPGY. The prep was good enough that she sailed through 1st year of the highest math track at her high school.

The course was not the most exciting, but was much better than solo study. The instructor backup was fine.

You may want to note that 3 years ago the courses were cheaper through Stanford than CTY/Hopkins. That may or may not be the case now.

By May_1 (May_1) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 09:46 pm: Edit

As one of these "early" college goers, I just wanted to add my $.02. I'm a 16 year-old freshman a reasonably good (top 30) school. I really don't see the big deal about it all. There's nothing terrribly different about college except that you are completely in charge of your future. I determine when I'm going to study, eat, work, if I'm going to go to class (an option I exercised a few times 3 weeks ago, never to do again once I realized how far behind I was!), what oppotunities I take advantage of, whether or not to drink or smoke, etc... There are also 18 and 19 year olds here who just can't handle the freedom, and are either locked in their rooms most of the time due to homesickness, or partying out of control and harming their academic standing. Once you're 15 or a high school junior, it really depends much less upon age than on maturity and ability to handle independence IMHO.

By Perry (Perry) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 09:56 pm: Edit

May 1 --

I think you make excellent points. My daughter will also be 16 when she goes to college next year. At this point, I don't have any concerns about her holding her own or taking her studies seriously. It is indeed a matter of maturity more than age. Keep up the great work, take advanatage of all the opportunities offered to you, and good luck to you.

By May_1 (May_1) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 04:46 am: Edit

I just realized something. One thing that's a shame that I may regret in a few years: I don't think I'll be staying at this school. There is just another school that I really like so much more, and I think there's a good chance I'll get in. The only problem: my current school is giving me full tuition and I'm in a BS/MD program, which is quite a lot to give up, but we shall see in a few months...

By Aravis (Aravis) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Just got my application packet from S.R in the mail yesterday. I think I will apply and see how it goes from there. I don't know quite what my GC is going to say, I don't think anyone from my school let alone the district has applied to early college before...
I took the PSATs yesterday. I think I did pretty well. The math was easier than I thought and I did pretty well on the verbal. The writing section(why do they call it writing anyway, it's all grammer) got me a bit confused. Then after that I went to take both the district's math and chemistry test. All day testing. You should have seen me afterwards, I was soooo grouchy. Then I had b-dancing which got me into a somewhat better mood.
Not to mention when I went to turn some extra credit in to my English teacher, she informed me that I had got a hundred on my essay which is a rare thing for her to give out(I think it was two kids total in all her classes). She wanted to know why I wasn't "working up to my full potential." Please~ Like that speech is anything new to me. I've probably heard it ever since the age of 3 or 4. I don't like skimming over the surface of books with no in-depth which is what we do. I would rather much prefer to be left alone to read alone for that time. I probably would learn more too.

By Mstee (Mstee) on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Just an update. Looks like my D (freshman in HS) will be leaving the arts school and going to the Catholic school in Jan. Just found out today. Hope it all works out. Of course, being a freshman in high school, she thinks all her problems will be solved by changing schools. HAH!

Aravis--how is your year going?

By Hnbui (Hnbui) on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 12:48 am: Edit

i am graduating early. I will be 16 when i graduate. I am also taking college courses right now.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 01:07 am: Edit

mstee your daughter isn't in Boston by any chance is she?
Several staff from our seattle public school went back east last spring and fell in awe of the Boston Arts Academy and are deterimined to make our school over in their image.
I am skeptical as our state is finally increasing math and science requirements and they want to have art be a 2 hr block and math/science/spanish be another 2 hr block

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 09:30 am: Edit

Emerald:

I know a little bit about the Boston Arts Academy. It's terrific for some students, but it should not be considered as an alternative to a comprehensive high school if that is the only high school in the district. BAA is a charter school with about 400 students. There are several charter schools in Boston, each with a specific mission.
BAA attracts students interested in the arts (both performing and visual) but not necessarily high performers in core subjects (English, social studies, math and science). It has done well over the last few years both in nurturing their talents and in using the students' interest in the arts to improve their performance in these core subjects. However, the students' scores on standardized tests remain relatively low. A school district under pressure to raise students' performance in math and science in high stakes standardized tests might want to think about the pros and cons of transforming its high school into a variation of the BAA. The BAA's principal, Linda Nathan, is a mainstay of the anti-MCAS movement, MCAS being our high-stakes test.

By Momstheword (Momstheword) on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 12:46 pm: Edit

I went to college at 16. The thinking at the time was about skipping grades. These days, there seem to be many more academic opportunities for HS-age students.
My college experience was good, though. I was glad to leave my so-called highly regarded HS, which was filled with apathetic drunks and druggies. It was thrilling to be around academically minded peers at college. In my eagerness to leave HS, I didn't research colleges enough, however. Lots of my classes were easy. In fact, I challenged some of them(testing out the first week). I thought I was hot stuff. Only later did I realize I was actually not so smart--a more difficult school would have whapped my pea brain upside the head.
Anyway, I think it's great that there are now many more opportunities for young kids who are ready for more than the trad. HS setting.

By Laceycheer (Laceycheer) on Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 09:31 pm: Edit

I am a junior, and am supposed to be a sophomore... plus im skipping my freshman year of college (through AP). However; I would never consider leaving highschool early... maybe its just me, but i want all the time being a kid i can get, responsibilties pile up enough as it is.
I will be 20 when i graduate, i think most people 22? but i also will have 4years of undergrad to complete... so i guess im glad i am young, but i wouldnt enjoy starting early

By Fimoc (Fimoc) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 08:15 pm: Edit

I am another high school sophomore that is thinking about attending Simon's Rock college- I have had expierences where I have been frustrated in the classroom because of unneeded time spent on various issues that I have already mastered.

Both this and the fact that I feel I can be self-reliant have lead me to apply to Simon's Rock. I have already taken classes at programs such as Northwestern University's Center for Talent Development (CTD) where I took many math courses such as algebra 2 during my 7th and 8th grade years. However, the math director at my school failed to offer me the chance to take the exams to pass the courses because of some lacking skill in geometry. Now i cannot skip because of the lack of flexibility in the current system. I am already in the highest track in mathematics, and will still need to repeat very simple classes. I am fed up with the system, and I feel that I am ready for college.

It seems that I have outgrown my high school. I still learn, but not nearly as much as if I took college courses. I am currently taking AP classes also, and i feel that if I bother taking a college level course, I should get college credit, and not just AP credits which may not be accepted. I see no point in being able to take AP and then having the chance of having to take the classes over again. In addition to AP, I am taking accelerated courses, and I feel that if I can maintain my high GPA with college-level and accelerated courses, I should be able to attempt all college courses.

Self-reliance seems to be the other motivator other than academics. When I consider how much I enjoyed the ability to schedule my own activities, manage my own time and transportation while at CTD, I also want my independence.

Of course you might say- "He's just another one of the teenagers rebelling against society". Well, I know many "rebels", but I do not want to be catagorized with them. Instead of rebelling, I am accelerating because I feel that there is so much more being offered in college, especially by the maturity offered by self-reliance.

By Kazaraxa (Kazaraxa) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:14 pm: Edit

Aravis- I recently applied to Simon's Rock, and recieved a letter the day after Christmas, telling me that I had been accepted. So, um, that's what I'm doing. I would happily tell you all my reasons, but that'd take a while. It's mostly because I'm bored beyond boredom in high school, and I want out. I am a junior, but will be the same age as the majority of people going into their freshman year at Simon's Rock, as I'm 15, having skipped Kindergarten. The majority of my friends, however, are 17-18 year old seniors, and leaving next year. My senior year in high school would be hell, even with the likelyhood of the lead in the musical and drama club shows. So, I'm out. Out of here. One thing you'll want to worry about, though, is that Great Barrington, where Simon's Rock is, is a small place. It's all very small. Not something I would suggest if you're idea of college is clubbing and drinking and stuff. But if you're idea of fun is a night at Denny's with your best friends, like mine is, then I say go for it.