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I'm the mom of an ADD-Inattentive kid (classified 504) who is a junior. He still has issues with focus and organization - excellent student when he does the work - but is "homework challenged". Managed a 3.75 unweighted last year, but husband and I did tons of follow-up with teachers, etc. Am wondering if any parents have the same/similar experience. Son wants us to stop driving him crazy about schoolwork, yet historically, if we are not involved, lots of stuff falls in the cracks. He is a great test taker and can "get" the material from reading/listening in class - claims hw is a waste of time since he knows the stuff.
I feel a bit intimidated by these boards, as most of you seem to have kids who are extremely self-motivated and organized. I am afraid if we are too involved, he will not take responsibility; however, allowing him to fail because of a disability seems like a po0r option. Getting son's attention for more than five minutes for anything other than his girlfriend and computers is almost impossible. I keep thinking that if we go visit a couple of colleges with "very cool" computer science depts, he might get excited. I don't think he has a grasp of what the college experience is all about. (We are in CA - lots of options)
Anyone dealing with similar issues?? Thanks.

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

My son's cousin has borderline Asperger's and cannot be pried away from his computer (no girlfriend).
I am not an expert on ADD, but it is possible your son has a point about homework being busywork. My son got slapped with a B- in one quarter for sloppy Chemistry lab reports (oh, mom, it's so tedious!) then was nominated for the school's Chemistry prize (same teacher).

If you are concerned about how colleges would deal with a student with ADD, you might look up their websites. Some list their resources for students with disabilities. If you do not know about ldonline.org, check it out. The site may have useful tips.

good luck!

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Marite - thanks! Son does indeed think its busywork...I think he's finally caught on that he has to do it (at least most of the time)or his grad gets killed...also, one of the drs. we consulted thought he was borderline Asperger's - but others did not so we didn't really follow up on that..thanks for the tip on colege websites, too.

By Mom60 (Mom60) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Ckr1147-
I also have a son with ADD he is starting 9th grade. He goes to a private school that has a fairly large number of kids with different learning disabilities. It is a place where he has learned that everyone has different ways of showing there intelligient not just through traditional reading and writing. Many of these kids have gone on to great universities. What they try to teach the kids is to advocate for themselves so that when they go off into the real world they can ask for the accomm. that they need.
He does not get his homework done if I am not on top of him and he also turns in work that looks like it came out of the trash can. I also have on the other extreme a daughter who is a great student, always turns in her work on time. To the observer she is so much brighter then her brother but it is actually not the case.
Have you thought of him starting at a CC close to home and then transferring. I know our local CC has a specific staff person who guides kids with learning issues.
I recently met a woman whose son had severe ADD and barely graduated from high school. They did not know where he would end up. He ended up taking auto mechanics and cooking in high school just so he could graduate. He ended up at a CC and took a Bio course from a great teacher, sparked a interest and her son took off worked very hard transfered to a UC and then went to Med school and is just finishing a internship in hand surgery. And loves to cook and restore cars in his free time.
I think I remember seeing a book on colleges for kids with learning disabilities at Borders. You might glance at the College section next time you are in a bookstore.
My son also has read several books by Mel Levine that go into how the brain works and why we all learn differently.
Good luck to you

By Annac (Annac) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 01:28 am: Edit

My friend has a son with ADD and is applying to college this year. Make sure you fill the proper paperwork to allow for extra time on the SAT. He is applying to University of Arizona because the SALT program is available. Here are two links that may be helpful.

S.A.L.T. Center: A full-range of information on U of A SALT program including admissions, applications available services and valuable internet links/resources for students with learning and/or attention issues at www.salt.arizona.edu

Petersons's Colleges with Programs for Students with Learning Disabilities: Comprehensive to over 800 colleges and universities at www.peterson.com

Good Luck in addition many of the UC's and Cal States have office of disabilities but none came close to the SALT program at U of A

By Boysmom (Boysmom) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 08:23 am: Edit

I also have a son with ADD and took the opposite approach. We figured that if he can't handle high school without our help, then he certainly couldn't do college. His grades fluctuated wildly but he did get into a decent school where he did much better. He is graduating this spring. On the other hand, his cousin's parents checked with teachers, sat with him while he did homework and got him into a great school where he didn't last the year. At some point the responsibility has to be theirs. That's not to say the problem should be ignored. My son received medication (which he took sporadically) and occasional help when he asked for it. Most colleges have a support system for kids with ADD and if you think it's necessary, choose one that provides assistance.

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:50 am: Edit

Thanks Annac and Boysmom - it is difficult to know how much help to give and when to give it...do you let them "fail" because of something that is truly not their fault...

Boysmom - I know what you mean about wildly fluctuating grades...son's main issue is homework, as in not doing it - thinks it is redundant...if he could just take quizzes and tests, he'd be fine -
son is classified under 504 and we do have a few accommodations, such as extra time on tests; however, he typically does not need it and didn't need it for the PSAT although he could have had it. We try to communicate with teacher's weekly to follow up on assignments; I think he is also improving with age...I'm told that kids with ADD often are 2-4 years behind their peers in terms of emotional maturity, and I think he falls into that.
It's a fine line to tread...

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:06 am: Edit

ckr1147:

Have you considered that your son should be advanced in his studies? The literature on gifted children shows that many gifted children are often diagnosed as ADD when all that ails them is boredom-induced misbehavior or underperformance.
While I do not discount ADD as a factor in your son's erratic performance so far, it may be that a contributing factor is unwillingness to do busywork. It is hard to persuade teachers to let a child advance when he is not doing well on busywork (seen by teachers as proof that he can perform at the next level), but it is worth trying.
Although my son is not ADD, when he was in 6th grade, he was disruptive in class and it was sometimes hard to get him to turn in decently presented homework. It would often be ill-written and sloppy. On standardized tests, he would make silly mistakes on the easiest questions. In 7th grade, he became an angel of good behavior and did outstanding work in all areas. The cure? Letting him start on precalculus. Once he was doing work at his level, he became engaged and complaints disappeared-- both by him and about him.

By Compscidad (Compscidad) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 11:12 am: Edit

This all sounds very familiar. I could have written the original posting, and did a double take when I read it.

I am very frustrated right now with my extrmely bright ADHD son. He tests off the charts and will probably have something close to a perfect SAT score.

With a lot of hovering from us and coordination on our part with teachers, he's done reasonably well gradewise but not great -- genrally A/B range. On one hand I'm very grateful for where we are, but at the same time frustrated because he could be calling his own shots college-wise.

I'm very torn on whether my wife and I continue to bust a gut to do what we need to do to help him get into a top flight university or back off and let him do something less but more on his own.

Not surprisingly, he's a procrastinator, very disorganized, and immature. However, he thinks he's incredibly mature, savvy, and together and doesn't seem to realize the gap between between reality and his self-perception.

I'm sure a lot of this is dealing with a 17 year old in general, but the frustration seem all the more pronounced due to the ADHD.

Any thoughts?

By Compscidad (Compscidad) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 11:29 am: Edit

Now that I vented, ckr, what colleges are you thinking about? We're considering: Harvey Mudd, Georgia Tech, UT, Rice, Carnegie Mellon and a few others.

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Compscidad - wow!! Are you my husband??? LOL - my son's grades are in the same range as yours...and the immaturity/disorganization/procrastination is so true.
Your name even speaks to my son's interest - wants to do something with computers in college - perhaps computer security, but doesn't really know.
Re: colleges - we have not really started looking - we live in CA, but moved here from CT so son has some interest in going "back East" however, the CA Univ. system is so good, it's hard to pass up. He will need considerable financial aid wherever he goes. He did OK on PSATs last year - 201 - and is taking them again in October. Hopefully, he will do OK on the SAT's; we are signing him up for a study course offered thru the school - otherwise I know he would do no prep whatsoever...
We are going to our first "College Night" tonight - we'll see if anything grabs him. I had never heard of Harvey Mudd until I started visiting these boards but worth checking out.
I think our sons may be clones!! Is yours totally into gaming and anyting computer related? Sports or any physical activity is not a part of my sons life! Also, we are concerned about his lack of EC's - he refuses to even consider looking into a club unless he is sure it will interest him. We moved to CA last year and he has no close friends here, so being a bit shy and somewhat of a loner, he went into his shell even more...hoping the computer classes will help that.

Marite - interesting comment - before my son was diagnosed, there were differing opinions among the professionals at his school (middle school) - the Psychologist said ADD; the educational consultant said "extremely gifted" - We finally had him tested by Dr. Brown at Yale (supposed to be the guru, at least on the East Coast) and he confirmed the ADD-Inattentive but said he also tested in the gifted range w/ 136 IQ - obviously he has the brain power and, as you said, will apply himself if he engages - right now, it's his computer class that is grabbing him. I wish his regular classes would do the same.

Sorry this is so long, I have to say that I am so glad I found these boards. It is a real education and support system - thanks everyone!

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 12:15 pm: Edit

ckr:

Look up hoagiesgifted.com and search for "dual exceptionalities" or "twice exceptional." It is not uncommon for gifted children to also have some disabilities. There should be lots of information that could be helpful.

By Perry (Perry) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 12:32 pm: Edit

I think Marite has raised an interesting point. Gifted children often are misdiagnosed and misunderstood by the educational establishment. I recall that when my daughter was in first grade, the teachers strongly recommended that she be held back for "social reasons." According to the teacher, she wasn't interacting with the other children and that she needed an additional year in first grade to mature. Shortly afterward, we had her tested at a special center for the gifted. The test results showed that she was functioning intellectually at the level of a 14 year old in most areas. When we transferred her to a school for the gifted, she quickly made friends who were two and three years older. Thus, the teacher's professional opinion was considerably off base.

I don't know about others on this board, but I do think that children, particularly boys, have been overly misdiagnosed as having ADD. I think this is a worrisome trend. Just because a boy is very active, doesn't necessarily pay attention in class, is bright but doesn't do his homework, is disorganized doesn't mean he has ADD. I worry that too many children are being sedated for normal, but very energetic behavior.

What do others think?

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Hoagiesgifted.org has tons of stories about misdiagnosed gifted children.

My nephew does have borderline Asperger's and ADD. But his kindergarten teacher reached the right verdict on ADD based on the wrong argument. Her argument was that he did not pay attention at read aloud time, and would wander off. His reason for not paying attention was that he had already read the book and did not need anyone to read to him, since he could do so by himself. So she thought he was immature when in fact he was intellectually far more mature than the rest of the kindergarteners.

And yes, boys are much more likely to be given Ritalin than girls. I believe some research findings on this very topic were publicized a few weeks ago

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 01:54 pm: Edit

I have an ADHD son who is also gifted, so I have an idea about what you're going through.

I am impressed that your son is managing a 3.7 -- even if it's with your helping to organize him. My son graduated h.s. with an unweighted 2.6 in a demanding program that he chose to be in. My husband and I provided son with lots of structure through first semester of senior year. After that, we told him, he was on his own.

We did point out to him, that if he couldn't graduate h.s. without his parents forcing him to study, he wasn't ready for college.

Son did passs senior year, even got the IB diploma. However, when he went away to college -- 2,000 miles from home (his choice), he didn't do any schoolwork and essentially flunked out. This is even though he was at a tier 2 college where the work would have been very easy for him. Son had sky high scores, national excellence in an unusual EC, so actually had been offered admission to 3 tier 1 schools, but had turned them down because he liked the sports teams and the city better at the tier 2.

My guess is that if your son can carry a 3.7 now, he could survive in college even without Mommy and Daddy there to help him.

Just make sure, though, that he really wants to go to college. Perhaps he'd benefit by doing some other post h.s. experience such as getting training in the computer field or taking a year off to do some other productive activity.

We tried to get our son not to go to college right after high school, but he insisted on going. Since he always liked working, and did very well on the job, we thought it could have been a good idea for him to have worked for at least a year after h.s. He refused, said if he took time off, he'd never go back.

Anyway, there's no shame in taking time off or if a kid -- including a smart one-- decides on some other productive option rather than college. My advice is to talk these things over with your son, and help him realize the range of post h.s. options that are available.

One last thing, my son never believed he was ADHD, despite lots of evidence that he was. As a result, when he was about 14, he refused to take his meds. When he went to college, he also refused to use their services for ADHD folks.

If your son is wiser about his condition, he should do better in college than my son did -- if he does decide that college is what he wants to do after h.s.

By Compscidad (Compscidad) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 02:28 pm: Edit

ckr -- how funny! I had the same exact thought!

On the subject of EC's, I can take it a step farther -- since everyone told my son just how important they were, he was going to be damned if he would cowtow to those kinds of demands. It's almost as if he would be compromising his integrity if he were to participate in something. Never mind that it might be something he'd enjoy or would involve his interests. When he was coereced at gunpoint to join something, anything, he would and then never participate.

To be fair, he does act as a counselor at a nearby college sponsored program for gifted kids during the summer and on Saturdays during the school year. It has been a nice outlet for him.

All of these frustrations have been very longstanding. They just seem more acute now that the whole college issue has been thrown into the mix.

As for the giftedness v. ADHD issue, I think there is some validity to these points. Beleive me, we were not anxious to succomb to a "diagnosis" and Ritalin. We fought it. But, when enough professionals tell you, and you do see improvement with the medication, you've got to believe to some extent that there is an ADHD/medical component to all this.

On the other hand, he is gifted -- undoubtedly. It makes the other issues that much more frustrating.

I'll look at the website mentioned. Thanks.

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Interesting point Marite - my son's elementary teachers told us he was NOT ADD - "we have had those kids and he doesn't act that way" - I definitely think the Inattentive variety of ADD gets overlooked 'cause the kids are not a disruption...
Northstarmom - it is my fear that my son will fail/flunk out - he may be better off going close to home - even living at home and working part time at first...he is still quite immature...it's a dilemma but at some point you have to let them sink or swim I suppose...these next two years will be very interesting.
Marite - thank you for the hoagies site - I am looking forward to exploring it.

By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:09 pm: Edit

I sound a lot like some of your children. Although I was never diagnosed with ADD I can understand how a gifted child could be misdiagnosed. I was always VERY bored in elementary school as well as junior (come to think of it, high school hasen't been that challenging). I was labeled "gifted" as a young child, but was never given many opportunities to be accelerated. I have always found homework to be busywork, especially in math. Its so frustrating to get perfect scores on tests and still be forced to do homework. The truth is, I'm just a fast learner. One problem I have, though, is that I've never really learned how to study. I mean, I've crammed for AP tests, but have very poor study habits which worries me about college....I too have a relatively low GPA (3.6 uw) and high SAT scores (1540) I feel for your kids!

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 11:30 am: Edit

Geniusash - I understand completely - don't know yet how my son will do on SAT's - he got 201 on the PSAT as a soph - do you hate having to show your work in math? It drives him crazy! He barely studies and I am concerned about that for college as well - I was always a fast learner, too - didn't study much in hs or college - needless to say, my college performance was less than stellar, tho' I did graduate. I really appreciate your point of view...are you a senior? Son is a junior this year. We attended a college night last night and he seemed to finally be getting a little excited about looking at colleges.

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 11:54 am: Edit

ckr and geniusash:

I hope that ckr's son and geniusash are able to distinguish between busywork in math and showing one's work. My son learned the hard way how important it is to show work in math.
In early grades, he was given busywork, in other words, exercises that were designed to get students to practice their skills. He'd already mastered those skills, so he did not learn anything from further practice. He was also intuitive, and would get to the solution without showing the steps he used to get there.
In practicing for AP Calculus, especially the Free Response Questions, he was forced to learn to show his work. The FRQ scoring deducts points for steps not shown even if the solution is correct, and awards points for steps that are correct even if the ultimate solution is not correct (very unlike multiple choice). This was the first time he'd been forced to show his work. The same requirements were imposed in Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra. In his PROMYS program last summer, students were also required to show their work (and none of the problems were practice). So the higher the math, the more important it is to show one's work, and it is better to err on the side of too much rather than too little. It can be a bit tedious, but I suspect no one would have believed Einstein if he had not been able to show the work that supported his claim that E=MC2.

On another topic, make sure you explain about the ADD issue in your application. A discrepancy between tests scores and GPAs is often interpreted by adcoms as sign of laziness on the part of bright students. I actually overheard an adcom officer commenting about an applicant with perfect SAT scores but so-so GPAs: "We don't want underperformers here. They won't do the work."
I actually anticipate my son having to explain why his grades are less good in undemanding courses than in the most challenging ones.

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 01:15 pm: Edit

Marite - good point - you are so right - son does understand reasons why in higher math work must be shown; one of the reasons he hates it, I think, is that he is a very slow writer (part of his processing problem, we are told) - he had his first quiz yesterday and told me it took him a long time - even in hw, his teacher requires all problems must be attempted to get full credit for the assignment.
Thank you for the tip on explaining ADD on apps - excellent point - my son also seems to do better in the more challenging courses.

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 04:13 pm: Edit

ckr:

Does your son have dysgraphia or some other kind of problem? If the problem is handwriting, is he allowed to use a laptop? For math, Word has Equation Editor, and Geometer's Sketchpad from Math Works can be used for geometry.

Colleges usually allow students with disabilities time and a half on midterms and finals. I once had a student with Tourette syndrome. He was the first person to use a laptop in class. He also was one of the best students in that class.

BTW, the site on Hoagies is actually ADHD (under Special Needs), not Twice Exceptional. However, if your son has dysgraphia or other kind of learning issue, then the Special Needs site has plenty of resources, as does ldonline.org

By Compscidad (Compscidad) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:26 am: Edit

I would be very interested in everyone's thoughts on how to address the ADHD issue in the college application process.

In many ways, I'm almost embarassed to suggest that my son has a ld since he has a sophomore PSAT score of 224, a 3.98 gpa in the school's toughest curriculum (out of a possible 4.6 or so) which puts him in the top 20%.

In other words, I know that some people would kill to have my problems. However, there is a discrepancy between his gpa and his test scores, and I'm concerned that he will be considered underachieving as was suggested.

We have never sought accommodations as he tests very well and lack of time has never been an issue.

Very poor writing, small motor skills are an issue, as are the immaturity and oppositional issues discussed previously.

Bottom line, if the ADHD issue is raised in applications to top flight schools, will this sound like so much whining from an overprivileged suburban kid or will it be seriously considered in figuring out a pretty complex kid.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:32 am: Edit

My best advice would be to call an admission office with your query (it can be an anonymous, generic phone call) and ask whether this should be explained.
I personally would frame it in a positive light, at the risk of boasting. "Despite being diagnosed with ADHD, I have managed to...." It would not be whining.
Just my two cents

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 04:16 pm: Edit

My daughter has Lds/ADD not sure if she addressed it in application process, however, once she applied and was accepted, we did pursue accomodations available before she decided which school to attend.

SHe did not have accomodation in high school, however she did have a extended time for SATs.
She attends a school which is not known for its LD program, despite this, her accomodations have been excellent, the support has been great, and professors understanding.
She leads a bi weekly ADD support group with the help of the shrink on campus, she has weekly ADD coaching from a professional in the field, and she generally has untimed, take home tests ( wel they all are :-)
YOu may also want to consider takinga "gap" year, my daughter by her own choice spent a year volunteering, before attending college, and gave her a different perspective I think than some who step right in from high school

By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Marite-I don't have a problem showing my work, I just don't appreciate doing 40 problems each night that use the same concepts, for me once or twice is enough to have mastered it.

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 09:23 pm: Edit

Geniusash:

I appreciate your problem. That was my son's as well. The most he has ever done is about 20 problems per week in Mulitvariable Calculus and Linear Algebra.
It is important to distinguish between refusing to do busywork, or doing it badly and failure to show work.

By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 05:21 pm: Edit

very true

By Compscidad (Compscidad) on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Any more thoughts on the issue of how to frame the ADD (or not) issue in a college application/ essay?

By Marite (Marite) on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 05:18 pm: Edit

If there is a section on describing "special circumstances..." then this is where a discussion of ADD and similar issues should appear; I'd put it in a positive light, i.e., as something that was overcome, unless the disability is enormous and has been central to the applicant's life.
Any discussion of accommodations in college should wait until after the applicant has been accepted. Colleges are very good at accommodating students with severe disabilities.

By Docmom (Docmom) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 10:52 am: Edit

To Ckr1147, Marite, and Perry:
Back to the original topic - I think Marite and Perry are right about the possible misdiagnosis of your son.

I have three boys (18, 15, 12) and a girl (8). I have had all three boys referred to specialists and "tested" positive for ADD at some point in their school careers - usually around 4th grade or so. You have to be *very* careful with these ADD or ADHD diagnoses - there are no standard tests for them, and teachers push for the diagnosis. This is not to say some kids don't have severe ADD or ADHD, but that it is wildly and subjectively diagnosed.

Eldest son sounds exactly, to a tee, like your son, Ckr1147. Taught himself how to read *anything* by three and a half. We used to call him the absent minded professor. We could walk into the classroom for conferences and immediately know which desk was his because it was the one with papers and junk flowing out of it (and you should have seen his locker in high school). He was grounded every other week of both 6th and 8th grades (don't know why, but in 7th he decided to do homework that whole year). Every week on Friday he was to get his teachers to sign off on a card saying his homework was done a) on time, and b) in a satisfactory (C) way or better. We knew if he actually did the homework it would be probably in the A-B range without any extra effort besides doing the work. So one week he would hustle and get the work done so he'd be ungrounded, then the next week he'd be ungrounded and blow off the homework! It was almost comical, but the point was, he had to be made to take ownership of what was *his* work, *his* job, not ours. We never knew what his assignments were, never knew when they were due - that was up to him. I do think he would have done better in a school for gifted kids where they could have zoomed him along academically and he wouldn't have been so bored, but in other ways not germaine to this discussion we didn't think that was best for him.

By high school he had pretty much figured out he had to do homework or never have a social life. He graduated with a 3.9 weighted and scored very well on the standardized tests. He's six weeks into his freshman year at Notre Dame and is doing great - we got him a palm and he sounds amazed at himself at how organized he has become - out of fear, no doubt - college is harder than high school!

Second son is a freshman in hs and for some reason he's a little more focused on homework, so his grades are pretty good. He also was given an ADD diagnosis in elementary school, as was third son, now 12, and just now figuring out that unless his grades are up to his intelligence his standard of living will continue to be reduced.

Kids have a right to our love and generous affection, food, clothes, and a roof over their heads. Everything else is a privilege, and parents are in charge of those privileges. If my kids aren't doing their part (schoolwork and a few chores at home) we feel completely justified in making them an offer they can't (or won't) refuse.

The only way we "treated" their ADD was with behavior modification. Please know I realize many kids have to be medicated, but I wanted to try everything before that, and behavior mod works like a charm for our kids. Well, not like a charm, it was difficult many times, so I don't want to paint too rosy of a picture of it - can you imagine a junior high kid being grounded every other week for two years? It was not pretty, but he was stubborn and maybe too intelligent for his own good. There were a lot of typical middle school nasty conversations; it wasn't pleasant.

Oh wow, sorry for all this rambling. Hope it makes sense. I don't know how you go about breaking the dependency you've created, but you can be 100% sure that when you tell him you're getting out of his homework business, except for your expectations of the grades he's capable of, his grades *will* drop until he realized you mean business. He has to test the new system to see if what you say you're going to do is actually what you *are* going to do.

I will tell you that I would help him pick a college very carefully. We felt strongly that our son would do great once he was surrounded with other intelligent kids all studying their butts off. At his school Sunday through Thursday is pretty quiet, and *everyone* focuses on school. For a kid prone to be a procrastinator and disorganized to boot, it helps to have a positive "when in Rome" atmosphere, and one where the kids all seem to help each other out and aren't cutthroat with each other about grades.

By Marite (Marite) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Students who have writing output difficulties should definitely point these out in the application, though should not make too big a deal of it. Writing difficulties cause huge problems in elementary and even high school because neatness, penmanship, and general presentation are far more valued than in college.
Most teachers will thank students for typing their papers; and if students have writing issues, they can ask for accommodations on exams.

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 02:03 pm: Edit

Docmom - WOW! Thanks for your post - we also called our son "absent minded professor" - and I can relate to the desk!! LOL
RE: teachers pushing for the diagnosis - actually we were told by his elementary school teachers that "he doesn't act like that" re: ADD because he was not disruptive, hyper, given to outbursts, etc.
He was finally diagnosed in 8th grade by Dr. Brown at Yale (recommended to us by the educational consultant and the psychologist at his school who disagreed on ADD vs. gifted) who has written books and is one of the experts in the field of ADD/Giftedness. By this time, we had been thru many drs including one who told us S's problems were caused by rebelling against his father...I could go on and on.
It is heartening to know that your oldest son is doing well. I, too, think my son would do well in a cooperative and collaborative atmosphere. I appreciate your words of advice re: choosing a college - do you have any advice as to how to evaluate the "cuthroat" atmosphere?
I also believe that S can shine when he is truly engaged in something - like the computer courses he is now taking at a local charter school.
Also, he is becoming more mature and is seeing how he has to develop his own ways of "compensating" for his forgetfulness, disorganization, etc.
I understand that one of the characteristics of ADHD is that many kids are 2-4 years behind in their emotional development. And when you add giftedness onto that - there can be a huge disparity - intellect way ahead of maturity...
To everyone who has posted - thank you! Please keep the great ideas and suggestions coming.

By Momx4 (Momx4) on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Ckr, I'm a latecomer to this conversation, but 2 of my four kids have symptoms of spectrum disorders; one was never diagnosed but has symptoms of Asperger's and obsessive compulsive disorder and used to refuse to do work that was boring and meaningless. He learned easily and tested well, but his GPA could have been higher if he were able to apply himself. I also had to stay on top of him or he wouldn;t get his work done. He wasn't diagnosed so he never had accommodations in school. He majored in CS at a college that was friendly and accepting and where the profs got involved with students (Wash U in St Louis); there were always profs "looking after" him; his advisor invited him to dinner several times, and got to know him well. He had a wonderful 4 years there. He even stayed on for a year after he graduated to work in the CS department. Now he's a grad student in CS at U of Washington in Seattle, where it is big and much less personal. It took him over a year to get used to it. He would like to go back to St Louis and perhaps work at Wash U some day.

Another of my sons has Tourette Syndrome, ADD and OCD; he was diagnosed in elementary school and had an IEP with the usual accommodations- resource room, extra time on tests, took tests on the computer, etc. He too refused to do meaningless busywork but tested very well. I also had to be closely involved with him or his work wouldn't get done or handed in. In his case, he really needed to find a college that welcomes students with the neurobiological disabilities such as ADD and TS or he wouldn't survive. I used the K&W Guide to Colleges for students with LD/ADD to get started looking for colleges for him. I also looked at schools from the other non-disability related guides to find a good match for him- a liberal school with a good computer science department (that's his major too). Then I looked on the school's websites to see whether they were proactive in providing accommodations to students with ADD in order to prevent problems or if the administrator in charge of services for students with disabilities only got involved after a problem developed. We only considered schools where the disability office would intervene on behalf of the student (at the students written request) if there were a problem between the student and a professor. Fortunately, there's a good selection of schools that are appropriate for gifted students with disabilities. My son is now a sophomore at Brown; he found it a very good fit for a bright student with a disability.

I'm sure you will find many schools to consider for your son, but it takes careful searching. The K&W guide is an excellent place to start. Good luck!

By Ckr1147 (Ckr1147) on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Mom - thanks so much for the comments - I am thrilled to have discovered this board and to hear from other parents who are dealing with similar issues. The successes of your sons give me great hpe and encouragement!
I will definitely get the K&W guide to help with the search.

By Erdad (Erdad) on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

This is my first posting. My son, 15 years old, has been recently diagnosed with ADD, without hyperactivity. Apparently his ADD is quite severe, in the bottom 1%. During two separately administered ADD tests, and after being well rested, he dozed off near the end of the tests and then woke up. The duration of the attention deficit tests was approximately 20 minutes or so. The adminstrator of the tests was a well-regarded child psychologist who has been administering a wide battery of tests for 25 years.
My son was also given a wide battery of other tests, with baffling results. Despite his almost never reading, he was tested in the top 1% on his reading comprehension/verbal skills.This wasn't really that surprising to us, for back in second grade, when he was 8, because he was not performing well on group-administered school testing, he was privately tested and was evaluated at the 7th grade level in math (in the top 1/10 of 1%). That result was surprising to us because at that time he had not had any math training at all, other than single digit addition and subtraction problems. At that time he was not given any testing for any potential attention deficits however.
He is now on adderal(sp?) and this appears to help his concentration and focus.
Does anyone else have a similar experience with their child?