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By Hermom (Hermom) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 05:30 pm: Edit

I am new to this board, but felt compelled to sign up because I feel very conflicted about this issue. My D sees most of her friends being given carte blanche to apply wherever they may choose. Maybe their parents are expecting grants or scholarships. I don't know. We will not be eligible for aid, and I feel very torn about spending all our savings. We value education very highly. Both my husband and I are well-educated, and he is a university professor at a public institution. We have saved enough to afford the public school tuition. Private school tuition would be a big strain- and i question its wisdom, given that my daughter is a very social individual who is likely to have some difficulties balancing social life and school work when she goes away.. I have not ruled out a private college for her, but I am trying to understand why it is that so many parents feel the private school education is so superior. I have been at Cornell, Yale, Brandeis and U. Washington. The differences in the quality of education -if they exist at all- certainly don't seem to justify the differential in price.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 06:23 pm: Edit

I have not ruled out a private college for her, but I am trying to understand why it is that so many parents feel the private school education is so superior.


For years we assumed my daughter would attend for college an instate public liberal arts school. It was relatively close, ( 3 hours), affordable and we knew several people who were alumni and very happy with their education and their lives ( very successful as well, in their fields).
However for the heck of it, she applied to her reach school which was an out of state private school.
The public school ( Evergreen state college) was small, nice campus, decent academics, nice atmosphere.
The private school was smaller, nicer campus, stellar academics, with students who carried on classroom conversations outside of class with their peers and their professors.( Actually Evergreen is a bad comparsion since while they have no required classes unlike Reed which has a great deal of requirements, and since they have small endowments and moderate facilities, unlike Reed which has just updated and expanded their already well equipped facilities, the feel is very similar in that Evergreen students have good outside of class contact with professors and intellectual discussions outside of class- both while playing hacksack!)
That is why we thought it was worth it. That the difference in intensity and level of academics between the public and the private school was enough to be worth the extra money.
(We also had made a big committment to our kids educational life, our oldest from the beginning showed great promise, and while she does have learning challenges, I have no doubt that she will make the most of her opportunities).

A residential school like Reed, seems very different than a commuter school like the UW. Schools where sports and or frats take a lot of social energy and time seem very different from schools where all sports are clubs and there are no frats.
For some students, who are very motivated and capable, they will be able to get a decent education at any good school. However, I wonder if your daughter may do better at a school without as many distractions as the University of Washington. My daughter is fairly social as well, she also has learning challenges and ADD which make staying focused difficult. She has a more supportive environment at her small school, as well as the opportunity to be really involved in student groups as a leader.

The U W does have a good honors program, and it of course has some great facilities, and teaching. My daughter didn't even consider the UW, too close, no room on campus and too big. Several of her classmates parents are professors there, and all their kids opted for smaller lib arts schools , they too probably thought it was just too close to home.
maybe for grad school?

By Momof2 (Momof2) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Yes, we were in the same spot this time last summer. Unless your area is very different than ours, many of the kids who were to be given "carte blanche" ended up rejected, waitlisted or just didn't attend some of their dream schools. Just as some of the 4 yr. jocks are starting out as walk-ons with Tier III's. My advice from the other end of the tunnel is to encourage her to apply to a reasonable number of schools, but make sure they are not all reaches. There are plenty of discussions on this board about that.

Financially speaking, the most important thing we did was to print out the estimated cost schedule from each prospective college website during the summer. We did some intensive calculations and made a little spreadsheet showing total cost minus 35% of the child's college savings, 1 yr. of any prepaid tuition plan, the $2625 unsubsidized loan available to all students and the amount we could REASONABLY contribute from savings and income annually. [Note - we refinanced our house in order to free up more cash to utilize the schools' 9 mo. pmt. plan - this really helps] Of course there was a large amount left over. We told our son that if he could achieve scholarships for (or near) this amount - the school would be within the realm of possibility.

The numbers were pretty staggering, but it helped him to understand the situation in black & white and to consider some less expensive schools. It also had the pleasant effect of helping him to REALLY FOCUS on his scholarship essays, recommendation letters, etc. He knew what he was working for.

Good luck - it's a long year ahead, but with a little planning and a lot of diplomacy, you and your daughter should enjoy the things you learn together.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Hi, Hermom, welcome to the anxiety-ridden zoo!

If you look by the course catalogs, colleges will look very similar. I actually heard of someone who got into both Princeton and University of West Virginia...parents checked the course catalog, saw little difference, and sent him to UWV. Aieeee!

I'll note that I used to be biased in favor of large research institutions; TheMom is an upper-middlin' admistrator at UCLA, which reinforces that somewhat.

However, one anecdote illustrates the whole pattern I've found between some good LAC's and the large institutions...the public state schools tend to almost always fall into the larger camp.

D e-mailed the orchestra director at a large school for an appointment during our trip visiting colleges. Director e-mailed back: Get admitted, come to the audition, then we can talk.

D e-mailed an LAC and the orchestra director e-mailed back, setting up an appointment for the day we were there. After talking to D for 15 minutes on the appointed day, said, "If you're not leaving until tomorrow morning, why don't you come by tonight during rehearsal and you can sit with the French horn section on stage while we rehearse. D did for an hour and a half and it was time well spent."

That's just one example but *many* interactions at the private schools are like that, a focus on individual attention, etc.

The other thing to consider--and I went to a large UC myself--is the peer interaction in the classroom. My D particularly likes class discussions and participation...there's a difference when you're with a lot of other top students as opposed to students a notch or two down.

The issue that would concern me if I were in your shoes is the "my D is a very social individual." I would hope she has fun in college but I don't expect my money to be frittered away.

What state are you in? (Other than anxiety, chaos, confusion....)

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 06:47 pm: Edit

While college is naturally a very social place, if a student isn't ready to take advantage of the academic opportunities, they may want to consider taking a year off.
My daughter did so and is very glad she did.
Senior year, she seemed not as interested in going to college as I had though she would be. I wanted her to be really vested in the search, she was the one who was going to be attending not me.
I suggested she take a year off, and she seemed very relieved to do so. It gave her experience, confidence and perspective that she wouldnt have had, if she went at 18.
She sees freshmen coming in who brag about that they didn't do all the reading , and got away with it on the test, but she says to them that they are missing the point.
She wants to take advantage of the opportunties offered to her, and doesn't feel that she has to act out to prove that she isn't a child anymore. legal age not withstanding, it seems that the ones who equate drinking with the weekend are the freshmen, not the seniors or even the sophmores.
Not saying that you have to drink to be social, but at many schools it goes together, and who wants to be sober at a party with a bunch of drunks? Yuck.

By Digmedia (Digmedia) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 10:38 am: Edit

Private vs. public? Here's what I want for my S:

(1) a chance to be with students at (or slightly above) his academic level. It's like playing tennis: it's NO fun playing with someone who is way below your skill, very good to play with someone well matched with you, but the best learning experience is to play with someone slightly better than you are.

(2) mentoring opportunities. This means that the professors are more than just classroom instructors; I'd like to see S invited along on a summer research project, or work with the prof on lab research, or even get involved in out-of-class intellectual discussions. This also means smaller class sizes.

(3) great EC opportunities. Whether it's a radio/TV station, a film group, an outdoors group, political club, or intramural sports, I'd like to see some opportunities for exploring in other than his academic areas.

(4) a diversity of people and majors. If he's technical, I want him involved with the dancers and actors; if he's artsy, I want to see him working with the computer geeks as well. I want him to experience people other than the homogeneous group his HS has. I also want him to have the opportunity to change his major without necessarily changing schools.

(5) a decent environment. While he doesn't need palatial dorms, gourmet food, and manicured, treed campuses, he does need an environment that doesn't detract from why he's there. This also refers to the town/city he'd be in.

(6) no large debt when he's done (neither for him nor for me).

Can we have all of these in one place? That's what we're looking for. Would private be better?

- digmedia
(pronounced with a soft g; I don't "dig" media.
I shoulda set it up as digimedia, but theDad
got it right when he refered to me as "digi")

By Digmedia (Digmedia) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 10:40 am: Edit

Actually, this would make a good new thread: "Top 5 requirements for S/D's college"

- dM

By Hermom (Hermom) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Thank you all. It is nice to get some well-considered feedback on this issue. Momof2,I like your approach- show them the numbers! TheDad, i agree that the larger institutions certainly don't allow for as much discussion-at least in the lower level classes.
Emeraldkity, I think you must be a neighbor. Our issue is even more difficult than I indicated. We live virtually on top of the UW. My D really wants to go away to college (and should!). That means that if she were to go to a public U, it would likely be Western Washington-not UW. While a smaller school, my guess is that she would probably be around lesser students than herself and than she would find at UW. Digmedia's point #1 is very important to me. I want her to be around the middle or slightly below her peers in academic ability. But not so far below that she throws in the towel.
Emeraldkity, how does your D find Reed? My daughter is enamored with the school, and clearly there is an unparalleled intellectual environment there. My concern is that,while bright, my D is not exactly very disciplined (nor an intellectual). The low retention rate there is also a concern. She is interested in (and passionate about) writing/theater.

Upon reflection, I think i can refine my concerns further: I don't think I would have trouble justifying paying the tuition at a really good private school. But, if my D gets into a lesser school (Willamette, for example), does that justify the price differential? I don't know if it is worth an extra 30K to me for her to have the small environment.
Digi, it sounds to me that you are describing a public institution. While many of the small liberal arts colleges certainly have their advantages, they can't satisfy all your conditions by virtue of their small size. The UW, for example, has extensive opportunities for undergraduates to do scientific research. There used to be a summer only research program option (funded by Howard Hughes Medical Inst) that provided an opportunity for students from other schools to attend the UW and conduct research in the lab of their choice. Kids came from Reed, Whitman, Willamette, Harvey Mudd and other schools all over the U.S. The breadth of research opportunities in a large research institution simply cannot be found in a small school. Unfortunately, this program is no longer open to non UW students.

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 05:08 pm: Edit

The private school my son will be attending, the University of Southern California, offered the program my son has wanted since sixth grade, film. Plus the location is perfect. The public school with a quality film school he was accepted to, Florida State, while excellent is a step below USC, doesn't have the location, and FSU's overall academic quality isn't as good. The public schools where my son was accepted, UVA, VT, and UNC don't have his program.

I think the bottom line is, if you child knows what she wants, I mean, really knows, and the private school is the best place for it, then you sacrifice and do it. If she doesn't know, send her to the state school, let her figure out what she wants to do with her life, and then go to an elite graduate school.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Tsdad, what you describe is a "good fit"...and you know my prejudices. Btw, if you ever need a local "adult agent" for your son in an emergency, please feel free to e-mail me. I'll drop you a "Ping!" on my next e-mail pass.

===

Hermom, you've put your finger on an excellent point and one I've seen addressed in print but damned if I can remember where: it is *not* worth paying the big bucks for a *mediocre* private school education.

Research opportunities, if applicable to your D's field, are one reason to look at the larger research institutions. But some of the smaller schools have outstandng research opps themselves...there's a world class geneticist on faculty at Smith, for just one example, and they have a number of other great research slots as well...not just as broad as one might find at a larger school.

As for read, my two cents--and please don't take offense--but it doesn't sound like the place for your D. I've known people who went to Reed, including one who dropped out, and it's *very* intellectual and requires a *lot* of discipline.

Does your D want to stay close to home or is further away an option? There have been a couple of threads on Theater Schools in the "College Search" forum and I ran across Skidmore, near Albany, NY as a safety for my D that's got an extremely impressive performing arts program.

In fact, you might want to search on schools that have theater, cross-reference those with writing, and then rank by geography and cost. Kinda what we did but with ballet instead of theater.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Emeraldkity, I think you must be a neighbor.
sounds like it, we live in Ballard.
That means that if she were to go to a public U, it would likely be Western Washington-not UW. While a smaller school, my guess is that she would probably be around lesser students than herself and than she would find at UW.
Although Western is getting much more difficult to get into, I would tend to agree that it may be less academic than the UW.
While I know some very capable students who are at Western, and I love Bellingham and the location of the campus, it does tend to get students who haven't necessarily considered schools outside of Washington. When we toured the school on admitted students weekend, we were moderately interested until a professor compared the level of academics as being superior to Yale.
After that I had a hard time taking it seriously.

Emeraldkity, how does your D find Reed? My daughter is enamored with the school, and clearly there is an unparalleled intellectual environment there. My concern is that,while bright, my D is not exactly very disciplined (nor an intellectual).
Well for perspective, my daughter graduated from SAAS. She wasn't an honor roll student, but she had good preperation for college. She has ADD and learning challenges ( which SAAS is great with) and we agreed that a smaller environment would be less overwhelming and more manageable especially coming from a graduating class of 18.
She is a good writer, and writing ( & reading) is a big part of most every class at Reed.
They don't give grades ( unless you ask) so that relieves some of the pressure. She seems to be working hard and learning in all her classes, and students often have study groups and informal discussions about class that I think helps those who might get off track with the social aspect.
My daughter has had a single room since freshman year even without requesting it, which has been great for her ADD. She made a sign for her door indicating whether it was safe to knock, or if they should not knock under pain of death. Students really respect each others boundaries, and one boy sat outside her door for 30 minutes when she had agreed to meet him, cause she had forgotten to change her sign!
They don't have big sports teams or frats or wild parties ( usually) so aside from the normal growing up drama, much of the energy is expended on studies.( but they don't go around looking at the ground as one website reported unless it is to keep the rain out of their face. They have been very friendly for the most part, although there is a strong vein of students who take themselves so seriously that it is hard not to smile at them)

The low retention rate there is also a concern.

That concerned me too, but the way it has been explained to me was that in the past Reed had a higher admittance rate than other schools that students were applying to( Swarthmore Brown Columbia), so Reed was not necessarily first choice for these students. Then they found that the reputation of Reed as a work hard party hard school was more extreme than they realized. They expect a lot of work out of you, more than some were ready for, the party is also not till the end of the year ( Renn Fayre), and if you party regulary during the year, you won't be able to keep up.
You really can't double major at Reed you would be killing yourself, although they do have a few combined programs. Students may decide to major in something that Reed doesn't offer or go to take a break between sophmore and junior year to study abroad or to work. Sometimes priorities change and they don't come back.
That isn't necessarily a bad thing, to get a better idea of what school you want to be at. But the students we know that have changed schools, they all were attending private colleges ( Bucknell, Barnard, Bryn Mawr) and now are attending public schools ( Western, UW, UW).
I know as a parent, I personally would not be thrilled to pay out private school tuition and have my child get a diploma from a public school, when they could have done that in the first place.
But sometimes lessons are expensive, and if it gets them further down their path, I say whadda gonna do?


She is interested in (and passionate about) writing/theater.

Very good at Writing. Some great professors and visiting professors in English dpt. Theatre dept seems small, on the one hand small dept you get to try all kinds of areas, not available at big school, on other hand you don't get to delve as deep into areas that you might.
I would suggest that she contact some of the professors to get their opinions. They are pretty good generally, although some professors also have ADD and may take a few reminder emails, it doesn't mean they are ignoring you , they just forget.

By Sac (Sac) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 06:55 pm: Edit

As to the level of class discussion, I had an interesting conversation about that with a Stanford professor. Comparing Stanford to Berkeley, where he had also taught, he said there was a broader range of student at Berkeley including a kind of "wild intelligence" he rarely found at Stanford, where smart but career-driven students seemed averse to challenging a professor. I just throw that in for discussion here.
Public/private is our dilemma as well. We live a few blocks from UC Berkeley which is what led our son to cross it off his list, even though we offered to move out of town. He says he doesn't want a school that's small, yet he's mostly looking at elite private colleges. We don't want to deny a kid who's a great achiever and who loves to learn the chance to go to a great school. On the other hand, as someone likely to head into some sort of math, applied math, or physics, he could do well at a public research university and then go to a PhD program at a private university where he'd likely get some fellowships. (This equation is further complicated by the amount of money we've paid for a private high school, but that's another long story...)
I think a good part of the ivy allure for him is that he's a competitive kid and getting into a big name school is the equivalent of winning. I'd love more information on honors programs at public universities. I've heard third hand that the University of Michigan doesn't deliver what it promises to honor students. What do people know about the University of Washington? Anywhere else?
(Other criteria: he says he wants to be in a city, except when he says by city he means some place like Berkeley and not New York. Which is why he told his guidance counselor that he wanted a school in a suburb. Anyway, rural is out. And he wants some place where he can hear a lot of jazz and get a chance to perform it some too.)

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Sac, I've got to run.

But the thing about jazz is wringing a bell. My D is the same way on the urban/suburuban/rural thing.

Later.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Just a tip that may open more options for students in many Western states. The Western Undergraduate Exchange is an association of public universities in 14 western states that offers students from member states a reduced tuition at the other members public univ. Students pay the regular in-state tuition plus 50% instead of the full out-of-state tuition. States participating include Colorado, Washington, Idaho, Utah, New Mexico, Wyoming, Oregon. Unfortunately, the UCalif. system does not offer this option to out of state students but some of the WUE members will give discounted out of state tuition to calif. residents.

For details: www.wiche.edu/SEP/WUE/index.asp

By Digmedia (Digmedia) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Carolyn -

I have looked into WUE extensively, and it's not an open invitation to go to an out-of-state (Western) school for in-state tuition plus 50%. I've found that many times it cannot be used for the very schools you might want to attend and sometimes can be used only in less-popular programs in the schools which will accept it.

If you want to go to one of the major state schools or study a "normal" major, then WUE might not be an option. And even where it is an option, the number of students they will accept WUE is limited. Also there may be stringent academic requirements.

For example, WUE cannot be used at the Univ. of Colorado (in Boulder). It can be used at Colorado State University if your GPA and SATs are high enough. For example, a combination of 4.0 (UW) and an SAT score of 1200 would work. Or, other combinations would be: 3.9/1240, 3.8/1280, 3.7/1320, and so on.

dM

By Digmedia (Digmedia) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Hermom -

I don't think my criteria above (except #6) lead to a public university, but it does lead away from an LAC to a larger private school. I think the ideal size is between 5K - 11K students. As my S says, he doesn't want to go off to a college that's smaller than his high school.

Carnegie-Mellon seems ideal to his Mom and I (we're biased, 'cause that's where we met more than 25 years ago), except for the $40K/yr cost and the fact that admission is a very high hurdle to get over.

dM

By Mike (Mike) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 10:03 pm: Edit

I believe every family should have a game plan to fit themselves. For us the frame work we caome up with is as follows;

1) Money. We took a hard look at what we could come up with for "Dad Mom scholorship" What was a reasonable amount we could expect from Mike for Work study and summer job. Added in the Max Stafford subsidized loans. Beyond that WHatever he can come up with for Grants and Scholorship/Merit aide makes up the cost limit.


2) Parents feel he will do better at a smaller school becasue of his learning style although I think he likes the cost diff between LACs and State University.


3) All of us realize tha Mike gets lazy when he doesn't have any competition so we are only looking for schools where his stats are between the 50th percentile and the 80th. I don't think being the bottom is much fun either.

4) Mike gets to add the other variables like, Geography, Majors, personal reaction, non academic activities available.

5) In the end he gets to pick. No bigger cause of failure then telling the kid where to go. Almost certain failure.

Mike's Dad

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit

D most emphatically wants a school where she's not in the top 25 percent...she's tired of being among the best. Otoh, as Mike's Dad points out, being towards the bottom isn't much fun, either. I think being in the interquartile range is where she'd like to be.... At Yale she'd be toward the bottom 20 percent; at Smith, towards the top 20 percent. Ah, well...nothing's perfect.

By Hermom (Hermom) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:03 am: Edit

Emeraldkity4, thanks for all the info.

Digmedia, I did say public school because of your criterion #6. From what I have seen thusfar, there are no "cheap" private schools. A few lucky souls can actually get all your criteria at a low price. NY residents, for ex., can attend one of several schools at Cornell and get their ivy education at near public school cost. (at least that was the way it was 25 years ago...)

Does anyone know how predictive the counselor-o-matic function on princeton review is? It matched my d with some schools I think are way out of her reach (incl. Reed).

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:28 am: Edit

To Thedad. LOL Maybe she will get lucky at Smith and like Reed it will be full of Genius that ignore standardized tests.

Mike's Dad

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:36 am: Edit

Herman: Princeton COM produced some great ideas for MIke and some very strange ones like placing an all women's college in his top 5.
Reed is hard to figure. Their stats aren't high so lots of people look good but they use other stuff to select. Always hard to know who gets in. I have known several Vals with 1400+ SATs get turned down and kids with 1100's and 3.0s get selected. The drug problems are over rated there but it is clearly a place for kids who are independent, and a bit eccentric.

Mike's Dad

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:53 am: Edit

I've raised an eyebrow at the Counselor-Matic thingy a few times. It seems a bit optimistic...almost as if it were designed for, say, five years ago and hadn't been updated.

By Kiddielit (Kiddielit) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:54 am: Edit

Sac -- I too would be very interested to hear if public university honors programs deliver what they promise. They certainly *sound* wonderful -- a LAC experience at a big university, blah, blah, blah.

By Momcat (Momcat) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:38 pm: Edit

I've found it to be helpful in offering suggestions of schools we may not have heard of and considered before.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Good point, Momcat, about expanding horizons.

My reservations were about an accurate gauging of the likelihood of success in getting admitted.

By Mike (Mike) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:59 pm: Edit

My guess is that some of COM's problem come from how they do or don't weight individual answere. The matches we got were indeed the type of schools that fit MIke most of the time. It also seems that matches are schools around middle 50 percentile of the schools SATs. Reaches the bottom 25 and safeties are the top 25. I must admit that the best fit is probably going to be his first choise.

Problem is that no one has anything I have found that is better. And for a kid at a school with counselors who seem limited to local schools it does provide a starting point for individual reseach. When we started the idea of sorting even 300 colleges seemed impossible. Looking at the COM list cut it down to less then 100 and another thing I found useful was that PR lists many schools competition so that provided another group to explore. If we had been looking for a list of places to apply for COM would have been of limited value, but for us, it provided a kick start that got the search going on the right track.

The honors college at our state U does provide many smaller classes and a peer group that has stats similar to good LACs. I was in one more then thirty years ago so have no recent information but it did provide a very different experience from the classes my friends were in like; smaller classes, the best professors, lots of class discussion, essay question tests instead of multiple guess and does influence me to encourage Mike to look at LACs or honors.

Mike's Dad

By Sac (Sac) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Thanks. For students who want the resources of a research institution but the smaller niche of an LAC -- plus for parents looking for a financial break -- honors programs look like a good possibility, at least in theory. Anyone else with experience with honors programs at state universities, especially University of Washington and University of Michigan? I know that UCLA and UCSB also have them, but not UC Berkeley.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

UCI also has an honors program. It includes housing as well as the academics, and it sounds like a good program. Our D isn't in it, and might apply, but she's not certain it works with her double major.

http://www.honors.uci.edu/theprogram.html

By Candad (Candad) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 10:57 am: Edit

D had been accepted by UIUC's Campus Honors Program, though she decided not going eventually. The program admits 125 new students each yr. CHP program's students have a higher priority in choosing classes. Their buiding - Honors House provides some facilities like computer labs, a library, and even a kitchen with free coffee, tea, and hot chocalate :-).

By Laney (Laney) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Hi, we are looking for a Reed alternative for my S. We are not sure he will get in.

Does anyone know of any Reed-like colleges not so tough?

I'm getting more and more confused by it all.

Thanks
laney

By Mauimom (Mauimom) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 01:47 pm: Edit

Laney, you might look at St. John's college -- one campus is in Annapolis MD and the other is in Santa Fe NM. It is probably even more "out there" than Reed, in that students study Greek, etc. But it's very intellectual, and for those who like that.

Other folks: U of Maryland is reputed to have an excellent honors college. And, since it's in Annapolis, it's quite close to Washington DC and the night life -- jazz, theatre, other colleges (Georgetown, American University, George Washington, Catholic, etc.)

Many state U's (the UC's, UVA and UNC are examples) are VERY difficult to get into for out-of-staters. I live in the DC area, and there's always a howl from N. Va. residents because their kids aren't getting into UVA; they claim it's because there's a "quota" on kids from N. Va, so that kids from other portions of the state (who generally have lower grades & scores) can get in.