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My junior daughter is just starting to look for classical vocal performance programs. She's interested in more of a college setting as she wants to pursue liberal arts as well (maybe a double degree?). However, she hasn't totally ruled out a conservatory. She is a strong student in a demanding private school but not a superstar. Her vocal resume' is great -- her voice definitely has professional potential! Can anyone give feedback on where their kid(s) have gone, applied, looked at??? We are aware of Oberlin, NW, and Lawrence. Anywhere else out there?????

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 03:38 pm: Edit

Boston University. Double major opportunities at John Hopkins/Peabody Conservatory, Tufts/New England Conservatory. Lewis & Clark College in Portland offers opera workshop, alternating with musical theatre. Sarah Lawrence College in New York.

Two classical vocal students from my D's high school started at BU. One went on to Manhattan School of Music; the other to Julliard. The second had been accepted at Julliard, but chose BU b/c it gave her more performance opportunities, and she felt she needed at least a semblance of a liberal arts education before committing to a life of performance. She is now a principal with the NYC Opera Company (at something like 26 years old.) But another huge talent started at MSM, and transferred his second year to Julliard (but he's a tenor, so it's less competitive than sopranos....)

My D had a tough time with this one. D did not want to do the conservatory route because she is still not sure whether performance is the path she wants to tread. It's an intense commitment. The other problem (per her voice teacher and coach) is that, if an 18 year old is accepted to some of the conservatories (including Oberlin, and certainly Julliard), they are developed enough to sing arias, but usually end up singing art songs for 4 years. BU seems to be an exception for the hugely talented and mature voiced.

Sarah Lawrence College is a nice compromise, since they are strong in performing arts yet also strong in all writing and liberal arts.

Look for the Performing Arts College Fair to come to your area. We got a lot of ideas from attending that event.

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Thanks, Theasrhs! I guess I forgot about BU. My D went to the Tanglewood Vocal Arts Program last summer run by the BU voice faculty and had a great time so BU is definitely on our radar. However, it is expensive! Tufts/NEC sounds great but when you look at it objectively the two places are physically far apart and operate on independent schedules so the students in this program seem to exist in no-man's land! Will defnitely check out Sarah Lawrence -- I thought it was more theater-oriented. The Performing Arts Fair sounds good but nothing in our immediate area (Pgh). Speaking of which, CMU is close but D wants no part as 'too close to home!' Anyone know anything about vocal performance at U of Maryland, Wooster, DePauw, McGill, Stetson, Susquehanna, Simpson, UMass, Barnard??? THANKS!!!!

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit

My daughter is in the same boat although we started investigating about a year ago and I have the luxury of traveling for business and checking out campuses if given enough time.
As we are in the midwest, our range of schools is more oriented to the center of the country.
I know the competition is fierce at auditions and there used to be a very long but terrific thread at another website: princeton review that had parents input re: conservatory and university/liberal arts school. We don't want anything too large so that rules out Indiana or other state schools. We ruled out Lawrence because what does one do in Appleton, WI in the middle of winter? Peabody is the only conservatory that we might consider,location may be an issue. Vanderbilt and Northwestern are equidistant from where we are located. Our counselor from hs convinced us to consider some LACs in addition to music schools because the audition is the wild card. Bad audition, no admittance and anything can happen on a given day.
Rice is a real reach, very tiny school, very hard to get admitted. We'll probably have to audition at about 5 to 6 music schools. It is going to be very hectic, hopefully fun.
I'm pretty laid back about majoring in music but want to make sure that whatever happens, have something to make a living--plenty of starving artists out there.
D sings almost year round for an opera company and show choir and is doing state fine arts academy this summer. Plus hs musicals. very insane schedule that she thrives on.
Of the campuses I have seen, Rice would be my #1 favorite. Vanderbilt is a good looking second. Northwestern is in too cold a climate for me but they have a great school.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Sopranosmom
I don't suppose your daughter goes to the City Music School? Were also in Pgh and my daughter, also a junior, is a soprano but intends to major in electronic music. Unfortunately, she also will not consider CMU as she has a strong desire to get out of Pgh. Has her teacher any suggestions? We're currently looking at Oberlin, Northeastern, Case Western, Mills College, Sarah Lawrence, Brown, Goucher and a few others. She also doesn't want to go the pure conservatory route, and as Musictoad mentioned auditions are always potential pitfalls (she will audition with voice as her "instrument"). Goucher offers non-binding early action, with no audition, but I don't know what it's like just for voice.
Princeton Review does a performing arts book that purports to list all the programs. It doesn't but it might be another place to look.

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 11:57 pm: Edit

Yes, Jenniferpa, my daughter does go to the City Music Center and takes voice, theory, and VPW there -- your D and my D probably know each other and maybe we do as well! We haven't made the rounds to visit anywhere yet -- will in June when school is out -- that's why I'm soliciting opinions here to get more ideas! Right now she's interested in Oberlin,BU, Lawrence, Northwestern, McGill, Skidmore, and Ithaca - CMU too, probably! She was at Tanglewood last summer so met the BU voice faculty (loved them and the program!) and will be going to a CCM sponsored program this summer (though CCM is not on her list for undergraduate voice -- UC is not strong enough in the liberal arts for her taste). She got into Oberlin's and Northwestern's summer vocal programs (which might have been a good intro to either place!) but liked the content of CCM's program better. She is the third child going off to college and definitely will be the hardest (the other two went ED, got in, and that was it! -- No auditions, etc.!!!)

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 12:09 am: Edit

To Musictoad -- thanks for your imput! D has pretty much ruled out straight conservatories -- wants the liberal arts as well although she might try for an audition or two for experience! I am somewhat familiar with Vanderbilt. My husband worked in Nashville for 9 months a couple of years ago and we actually thought of moving there permanently. Looked into voice opps for D -- an up and coming music school. Nashville is a great place -- the university might be too big for my D's taste -- and definitely not crazy about the Greek scene which is VERY big there. My nephew is at NW (not music, however) and loves it! Winters are rough if you're not used to it (he's from Boston, we're from PA so that's not a problem!) You're right about Rice -- very small, but again, up and coming. The rest of Rice, however, seems pretty instense! Re: Peabody -- yes, there is a connection with JHU but I'm hearing it's not great for undergraduate voice. A good source of inside info is the new forum for classical singers -- www.nfcs.net -- you can search for teachers, schools, etc., from people in the know. www.classicalsinger.com also has a forum with a hs classical singer thread but I haven't found it of much help! Keep on posting what you see and hear as you go through the process!

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 01:43 am: Edit

Thanks for the tips on sites, Sopranosmom. I've been wondering how to help my D find connections in Portland, Oregon. Perhaps these can help.

Undergraduate voice is a tough one. Part of the problem, no doubt, is that classical singing, for most young women, is really something that continues to develop, and become much more fully expressive and controlled, at a later age - like graduate level. There seem to be a whole lot more college/university undergraduate options for the musical theatre singer than for classical voice.

I've heard Oberlin is good for undergraduate voice, but again, it seems to be that art song kind of thing - and the few kids we know who are there with voice as their instrument are doing the tough double major option.

Do I remember correctly that Barnard has some kind of exchange relationship with both MSM and Julliard?

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 07:14 am: Edit

Well I don't think we've met, but yes our daughters do know each other: your daughter's name begins with a K, yes? I've seen her perform, she has a very mature voice. Yes, Ithaca is also on our list. I believe one of their classmates went on a visit and said it had great music tech facilities. My D is going to Oberlin for their summer music tech program, which at least will give her a chance to see whether this really is something she wants to do with her life.

Is your daughter intending to apply as a straight (i.e non-music major) undergraduate? You said something about a few auditions, and apart from a couple of schools, I haven't found anywhere where you can major in music without audition, but perhaps I misunderstood what you said.

Musictoad: I don't know about MSM but Barnard does have a dual major connection with Julliard. The problem with that is that you have to be admitted to both schools, which raises the bar somewhat.

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 07:38 am: Edit

Midwesterners typically freak out about New York even though I think it would be a wonderful oppty, however, I couldn't persuade my other half to let D go to school there.
Have you looked at Michigan? Even tho it is way, way too big and too cold, their music staff is incredible. Ann Arbor is a fantastic college town.
Nashville and Northwestern both have a heavy frat and sorority scene, which is something to think about. I didn't have to contend with them at my college that I attended and I wonder how much impact they have for those in the respective schools of music.
My D is pretty conservative so we ruled out Oberlin.
The hs counselor recommended that we look at cities that have a terrific music scene. She mentioned Tulane because of what is ongoing in New Orleans. I know the Jesuit's Loyola University is their only music school and you can take courses at both schools on some type of reciprocity.
I also know that performance is often reserved for upperclassmen at many schools, so that's another factor to consider.
We thought about CMU which is a fabulous school and Pittsburgh is a neat location but I saw the campus and thought it was one of the ugliest.
College of Charleston was another one to consider because of the Spoleto festival.
Location is a big concern for us--I wanted to be able to drive 6 hours in the event of an emergency and was needed. Didn't want to have to wait and fly, not to mention cost.
How is everyone planning to afford this?

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 09:39 am: Edit

Well, personally I have no problem with NY. I think a city is as safe or unsafe as you make it. No, if you're conservative, Oberlin (the school that put liberal into liberal arts) is probably not the best place. My D is really resistant to going south, despite the fact that she hates the weather here. Also the fraternity/sorority scene is not something she wants to deal with. As for CMU, I guess the question would be: campus, what campus? LOL.

Affordability is a big issue. Have you gone to finaid.com to get a rough idea of your EFC? I think my daughter will end up at a school that will find her academic abilities attractive enough to give her some merit money, but we'll just have to see. At one point we had two children in private school (the same one as Sopranosmom daughter attends I believe) but it got to the point where we had to choose between paying for elementary school or college, and college won! Unfortunately, we've had a LOT of uncovered medical expenses recently, which have put a dent in our savings. My youngest child contracted a fairly rare neurological disorder and his prescriptions were running over $1000 a month, which was NOT covered by our medical insurance. I don't think the financial aid calculation takes that into account unless it happens in the year you're using for calculations. It sure can deplete your savings though. Luckily were out of the woods with that issue (crossed fingers and toes) but it means that college costs will have to come out of current income for the most part. Definitely her safety schools will have to be ones we can afford as well as being ones she can get into and will be willing to attend.

By Elleneast (Elleneast) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 10:39 am: Edit

I don't know if this is worth checking out, but when my daughter was looking at Cornell, the admissions rep made a point of saying that they are pouring money into their music program and that the $$ spent per student is quite high.

If Cornell is trying to kick their program up a notch perhaps they will offer more $$ to desirable prospects. A smaller department might be great if the instructors that they have are the right "fit" for your child. It certainly offers a good liberal arts program.

For those who are going to look at Ithaca, it might be worth budgeting a few hours to go to Cornell as well.

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 11:33 am: Edit

Theasrhs -- Don't rule out Oberlin for voice -- only a few of the yearly voice majors are in the double major program. Yes, art songs are emphasized but with young voices I don't think that's necessarily bad. They do two operas a year (check their website --there are reviews, cast lists, etc.) and, although they have a few grad students in big roles, the undergraduates get to perform as well. My D's friend is a trumpet/music ed major in the conservatory -- who also sings reasonably well -- and he is very active in their G&S society. Re: Barnard -- yes it has relationships with MSM and Juilliard but remember, the students enrolled in those two conservatories have first dibs on the teachers there -- which is probably the most important part of the whole process in looking for a place to go!

Musictoad: Yes, Oberlin does have the 'liberal' moniker but I know plenty of kids from my area who don't fit the mold and the conservatory is a whole different place. I still think it's worth checking out! Yes, CMU comes across as very sterile and the campus is -- what shall I say? -- different? However, it is a good place. My D knows lots of music majors there -- it is VERY conservatory-like. The one friend who is a freshman is very talented in dance as well as voice and has had a hard time getting dance classes in with all the requirements. Since we live close, we go to their operas, musicals, plays, etc.. THEY ARE GREAT! There is crossover with drama and musical theater -- you can audition for both but it's tough! Our local NATS competition was there last year and I was very impressed with the CMU singers --both classical and musical theater. There are also local opportunities to sing -- Bach Choir, Mendelssohn Choir (w/ Bob Page) -- my D sings with the Jr. choir, Pittsburgh Opera chorus (for $). So -- don't rule it out. I'm not a native Pgher but have lived here for 20 years and it is a great cultural place.

Jenniferpa: Still don't know who your daughter is -- is she in VPW or take voice at CMC? K is at W-T now, not EL -- made the change last year.

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 11:45 am: Edit

Jenniferpa: Forgot to answer your question about where D thinking of applying. She is definitely leaning toward the liberal arts schools with a vocal performance (BM) major. Yes, all those (i.e. Oberlin, Lawrence, BU, etc.) all require auditions. What I meant about my last message was in reference to conservatories. She may just try a couple of auditions, if possible, at one or two of them. There are some schools she's looking at which probably won't require a formal audition -- College of Wooster is one that comes to mind. She would probably try and meet with a teacher and sing for him/her and/or submit a CD.

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 11:59 am: Edit

I have done the efc and i will not qualify. am prepared for PLUS loans and hopefully some merit awards from someone. I have one other in school that is very expensive--12k/yr but the education is so excellent i would scrub toilets to keep there.
I have to agree that all cities are dangerous and when you think you are safe, get real, you're not.
I always preach be aware at all times, look around you, what is handy to defend yourself, do you have a cell phone? how fast can you run? how loud can you be to attract attention?
have you looked at some of the LACs such as williams, middlebury for music?

By Theasrhs (Theasrhs) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Also western schools: University of California at Santa Cruz is the only UC to offer a BM, and appears to offer classical opportunities. University of California - Davis has just opened what is apparently a fabulous new performing arts center, so it may be that they will also start directing much $$ into music. U of Oregon, I hear from a Eugene musician and adjunct faculty, is a great place for classical music, but even more so for jazz. Even Sonoma State University in California could offer some relatively supportive classical musical experiences, particularly since they are raising big bucks for a state-of-the-art performing arts center, with the thought that the Santa Rosa Symphony would have a home there (Jeffry Kahane conducts, and he is *totally fabulous*, and seems well connected.)

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 01:48 pm: Edit

Sopranosmom, yes my daughter A is in VPW and takes voice. Tell your daughter that at the beginning of the year she had pink hair: that should identify her! She (and her brother) also went to W-T (north campus) until 4th grade, at which point the financial equation became a little iffy.

In a sense we're lucky: so few schools offer her intended major that we could, in theory, visit all of them. It's the safety (as in being accepted, not danger) aspect that is somewhat difficult. I can see her applying to all of her possibles, which won't be that many (probably under 10)

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 01:58 pm: Edit

Yes, my D knows her! I practice 'stop and drop' on Sats when it comes to VPW so the only time I see anyone is when they have a performance. Yes, your D's interest/major is unique -- I didn't even know such a thing existed! It looks as though you have a handle on places, however, both from your research and recs from this forum. D's vocal performance choices are going to be dicey -- both she (and us) want her to get a broad education -- not just the conservatory route -- so that makes it harder to look in a way. Her teacher hasn't helped greatly -- not familiar with all the places and, especially, teachers -- except locally at CMU.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 03:36 pm: Edit

Yes, well, I have to say my daughter's teacher hasn't been much help either, but I assumed that was because it's not his field. I'm really, really hoping this Oberlin program will be helpful, both with the major, and also potential colleges. I absolutely agree about the broad education aspect. I was just looking at the NYU site, which has an excellent version of this major, but it appears (and I may be wrong) that all you do there is music related, which I don't think is ideal. I'm also hoping that the fact that she's female will help with admissions because most of the people in this field are male! The whole thing is a little uncertain for my taste (quite apart from the fact that it's all greek to me!) so I want her to have a base that she can take to grad school.

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Jenniferpa -- yes, I've spent time today checking out websites for visiting schedules, interview requirements, audition requirements, etc.. I don't know how students can do it all with their schedules! Although the CCM summer program D is going to is great -- I almost wish she had picked Oberlin so she could have gotten a heads up on what she's getting into! NYU is a hot, hot school right now -- a few of D's friends applied in musical theater and didn't get in -- strong students, too. You're right, however, in your D's choice of major -- you may have a leg up! Everything helps! Having only gone the ED route with my two other kids, this multi-application process (with auditions thrown in) is nerve-wracking! The major problem with any of the straight music options (even at LACs) is that there is only a small % allowed for courses outside of music. If you elect to make music your minor, then you're at the bottom of the heap for teachers -- a double-edged sword!

By Finedonna (Finedonna) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 03:57 pm: Edit

I thought that Northwestern was supposed to have one of the best programs for undergrad voice. Is that still the case?

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 08:34 am: Edit

Northwestern has an incredible program but they don't give merit aid. That's 40,000 per year and not worth it (at least in my mind) if you don't get aid.
One of the kids in my D's adjudication this year was accepted at NU and Juilliard. I believe she chose J.
We have narrowed down the list for applying and auditions for vocal pfmce (opera) to:
Rice, Vanderbilt, Northwestern (we'll see if they do what the ivies do--give money as fin.aid. when it's really not,Tulane, Emory, Loyola (New Orleans), Rhodes (an incredible beautiful school in Memphis--a very surprising, hopping city)and Peabody (JHU). I don't know where someone got the idea that Peabody is not a good school for voice
--the entire website and printed material make it clear that they are talking classical singing and have recently added jazz voice.
Family hates cold weather and that's the emphasis on Southern schools.

By Finedonna (Finedonna) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 03:23 pm: Edit

Thanks for responding. My son is going to NW in the fall. He will be in the School of Music for voice but for some reason I don't feel like I know enough about the program yet. I think it is just my nerves about him going away. We do not qualify for fin. aid but they gave him an 8,000 NW Grant. I didn't really understand why but now I see what they do. Disquise merit aid as fin. aid. We really did love the school when we visited. The Music School really courted him and were very friendly and down to earth unlike BU where the music people are cold and unfriendly. He will get a dual degree with the College of Liberal Arts. I hope he likes it. Good luck to everyone.

By Christib (Christib) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 10:30 am: Edit

I have not seen anyone mention Oklahoma City University. It is a private univ offering BM degree. I've heard it has terrific classical/opera and also musical theater program.

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Finedonna--how did NU court your son? Was this after the audition or before? Did they scout him out from a teacher's recommendation?

By Finedonna (Finedonna) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:18 am: Edit

They didn't really court him. He applied, auditioned in Manhattan and was accepted.

By Finedonna (Finedonna) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:20 am: Edit

Sorry, I see how you were confused after reading my post. They courted him AFTER he was accepted. Really came on strong with the phone calls and when we went to the prospective freshman days there they treated everyone like royalty. It was hard to say no.

By Rachelfreedman (Rachelfreedman) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 12:10 am: Edit

I am a freshman at Lawrence and I adore it- Appleton is fine in the Winter, and the conservatory and strong liberal arts school are sooooo worth the cold weather! :-)
I'm a trombonist working on a BM in performance and music education, and the vocal program here is excellent as well.

By Sngstrss (Sngstrss) on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 12:22 am: Edit

is anyone familiar with the vocal performance program for undergrads at san francisco conservatory of music? I am curious to hear what everyone has to say about this school. Thanks, M.

By Singersavvy (Singersavvy) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 12:52 am: Edit

If you are looking for performance experience mixed with great teaching at a more affordable price than the big name conservatories, try SUNY Purchase Conservatory of Music. They take very few singers and everyone gets lots of personal attention. Its about 24,000 with everything, including room and board and tuition...thats out of state. I'm going there next year for voice- I wanted to originally go to New England Conservatory but its REALLY expensive- after some research on teachers I realized Purchase is just as good or even better- its really close to NYC and they have their own PAC center ON CAMPUS- I'm telling ya, if you are looking for a great program with lots of performing, go to Purchase- they do lots of Opera Scenes and they devote their operas to undergrads ,and almost every weekend the students go into the city and see operas and such for a very cheap price- they get special music deals. Everyone seems so focased and friendly and its not AS expensive like the over 40,000 for NEC or MSM or Juilliard. Even though most of the kids there are music/visual arts majors, they have a great liberal arts program and its possible to double major or at least take extra classes I think. Other good vocal programs that I should've applied to but didn't are U of Michigan, SUNY Potsdam, Florida State University, and Cincinatti COnservatory. These aren't too expensive either.... research the teacher, its all about the teacher! Forget the school, talk to the teacher's students! You can get a bad teacher at a top conservatory too, watch out! My uncle went to Juilliard for piano performance and he got a drunk teacher! He had to take lessons out of school, even though he was paying tons of money to go there! Good luck in your search!