|By Wolfpiper (Wolfpiper) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:08 pm: Edit|
In my opinion, no. Qualifying for extra harder than most people think, and you shouldn''t be penalized just because you have a disability that qualifies you for extra time. Some people may lie, but most people that get extra time truly need it.
|By Phantom (Phantom) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:58 pm: Edit|
I think so; a flag doesn't necessarily mean penalization.
On the one hand, my best friend has a disability so she gets time and a half on all her tests. She's really smart but I know that she truly has the disability. On the other hand, however, it is no secret that people deliberately get diagnosed with ADHD at our school just so they can get extra time. It is discussed openly among friends at school. I've literally heard people saying "I'm going to the doctor this afternoon so he can diagnose me with ADD--that way, I can get extra time, you know."
The flag would signify that extra time was given. If someone is sincere, then they wouldn't have to worry because they truly needed the extra time and no college should deny them admission for that. However, someone who is faking it can then have a record of having received extra time, which can be examined if something suspicious is discovered.
|By Kenenisa (Kenenisa) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 07:01 pm: Edit|
I know a guy who is brilliant and whose dad is a shrink, and guess what. He "had ADD" and gets extra time on everything. It is completely full of it. I am positive that a huge percent of people with ADD are full of it. Many doctors don't believe it exists at all. I am undecided on if it exists, but they should definitely be flagged.
|By Lisasimpson (Lisasimpson) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 07:11 pm: Edit|
|By Spencer915 (Spencer915) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:27 pm: Edit|
They should definitely be flagged. First, because of the corruption involved in the diagnosis. There seems to be no standardized way to diagnose. Second, it seems that everyone who gets extra time gets time and a half. Shouldn't there be specialized case by case decisions regarding how much longer a person needs? I agree that some people do need extra time because of disabilities that impede them from properly reflecting their intelligence. However, it seems as though kids at my school get it for the disablility called stupidity.
|By Ndbisme5 (Ndbisme5) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:36 pm: Edit|
I think so too. After all, time plays an important factor in these STs and the score. I know a couple of people that shouldn't really be using extra time. Nowadays you can have a doctor diagnose you of every conceivable disease on the face of this planet for the right price.
The way I see it... if you are seriously gonna suffer because you have a disability and extended time would make up for it, apply for it, get it "flagged," and send the school a paragraph stating that you really needed extended time and you weren't milkin the system for all its worth.
I'll be surprised if there happens to be a miraculous jump in people with ADD or whatever now that the scores aren't flagged.
|By Feuler (Feuler) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 04:11 am: Edit|
Everyone's covered the main points, so I'll just cast in my ballot with them- my inclination is that they should be flagged, simply because colleges should know exactly how the numbers on the page were produced. If a student has a disability, they'll know about it, and disregard the flag (or maybe give a leg up to a disabled student without the flag). Colleges are independent institutions that can make decisions based on whatever they like; the flag would just give them more information.
This is just my initial inclination, however. I have not seen a well-devloped argument against flagging, so I am not qualified to make a decision one way or the other.
|By Elizabeth22 (Elizabeth22) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 06:53 pm: Edit|
Of course they should be flagged. Maybe some people need extra time- but come on, everyone needs extra time. If I'd had an extra 15 minutes, I'm sure I could have brought up my math score another 30 points. Before people start complaining that I'm not considering people's disabilities, I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 12- and I don't think it's a big deal. I fidget, I stare out the window, I forget what I'm doing and watch the clock- and I managed a 1450 in the normal amount of time. It's ridiculous that someone who gets twice as much time should be able to submit the same scores as a tester under normal conditions, and have the college not know it. One of the factors of academic and professional success is working under time constraints- in the work world, no one's going to extend deadlines because you can't focus. We're not doing kids any favors by teaching them to expect special treatment, and it's definitely unfair to kids who take the test normally for tests to not be flagged.
|By Badtester (Badtester) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 08:59 pm: Edit|
I think that if the untimed testers were flagged, there would be less people manipulating the system by faking disabilities. Of course they should be flagged. I know I would test better if I had more time. So would everybody!
|By Aim78 (Aim78) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit|
Everyone has ADD. It's so overhyped and ridiculous.
|By Apchemreject (Apchemreject) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 09:45 pm: Edit|
Of course it should be flagged. A lot of people fake the illnesses to get extra time. How unfair is that?
My doctor says I have ADD. Hehe. I know what you mean Elizabeth22, I look out the window during tests, constantly fidgeting, and the clock is so damn hypnotizing. =)
|By Wolfpiper (Wolfpiper) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:17 pm: Edit|
A lot of people fake disabilities. Some don't. I brought up the subject with my AP teacher on the subject of getting extra time, and he said it was perfectly ethically. I, by the way, have a physical disability. People lying about ADD shouldn't represent all the disabled.
|By Justice (Justice) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 11:01 pm: Edit|
They should be flagged. They are taking an anomalous version of the SAT and it should therefore be marked as such. If the conditions for testing are not the same, then obviously it is the duty of the agency who is supposedly making a "standardized" test to convey that to schools regardless of how PC certain special interest groups may find it. Goddamn special interest groups. It just flat-out doesn't make sense not to flag. The lack of time is one of the key problems that students face. To give extra time is the equivalent of making the questions EASIER for people.
And extra time isn't exactly a scientific prescription. It's not like "HMM, to get you to perform to your ability, you need 43 more minutes than normal people." It's just, "hey let's double it cuz you have a problem." The implementation of the policy almost reminds me of some twisted affirmative action.
|By Badtester (Badtester) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 01:12 pm: Edit|
I really think that people who are faking to up their score are only fooling themselves. What are they going to do when they land themselves in a college that is over their head? I guess continue manipulating somehow.
|By Elizabeth22 (Elizabeth22) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 05:35 pm: Edit|
Wolfpiper, you mention your physical disability on almost every thread you post on, but I don't know what it is. If you don't mind my asking, what is it? Also, it's not like kids are asking for extra time because they have no hands and can't fill in the bubbles quickly- it's a mental deficiency, and the SAT is supposed to be testing just that.
|By Wolfpiper (Wolfpiper) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 09:50 pm: Edit|
Elizabeth, I have cerebral palsy that affects my motor skills, walking ability, speech, and spacial visulation. I can't bubble in and have to type, but my problems are not mental/intellectual. Sorry if I mention it a lot, but I guess its a big part of my life, whether I like it or not. I also make a lot of posts not mentioning it, but they don't stand out as much I guess. Sorry if I seem obbessed with it, whiny, etc.
|By Drusba (Drusba) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 11:01 pm: Edit|
"Colleges are independent institutions that can make decisions based on whatever they like; the flag would just give them more information. This is just my initial inclination, however. I have not seen a well-devloped argument against flagging, so I am not qualified to make a decision one way or the other."
Not true that colleges can make decisions based on whatever they like as they are all subject to federal and state discrimination laws. Most colleges prefer that tests not be flagged. They want to avoid being accused of illegal discrimination such as under the Americans with Disabilities Act. If they are unflagged no one can sue them by alleging they used flagged scores to discriminate. Colleges are lawsuit adverse; they want to avoid creating excuses for being sued; it has little to do with the possibility of such claims having merit; it has to do with avoiding creating situations that can lead to the high cost of defending suits even if they have no merit.
|By Gmf05 (Gmf05) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 03:28 pm: Edit|
I think they should be flagged. It will be almost perfectly clear who needs the extra time at some point or another. People who need it won't end up being penalized because they have nothing to hide. However, hopefully all these people who take advantage of the system will be. I've never heard of it happening at my school, but it seems to be a [relatively] common practice. And these flags don't mean anyone will be losing points either. It just gives the College Board a chance to check out all the test takers to "ensure a level playing field" as they always attempt to do.
|By Mattman (Mattman) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 03:39 pm: Edit|
That's a good point Gmf05.
Just like how colleges would pick, all else being even, a Hispanic kid with a 1200 over a white kid with a 1200, would a college pick someone who scored a 1200 in the default amount of time over one who had ADD and got twice the time with the same 1200.
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