Who is the smartest kid here?





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Discus: SAT/ACT Tests and Test Preparation: June 2004 Archive: Who is the smartest kid here?
By Apocalypse_Now (Apocalypse_Now) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 08:34 pm: Edit

I know almost everybody here at CC is borderline genius, but who is the brighest of all? If you think you qualify, briefly list your most impressive accomplishment(s) (For example: 299.5 AMC/AIME index). Or if you don't think you qualify, feel free to nominate someone else.

By Royalchk (Royalchk) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 09:01 pm: Edit

www.geocities.com/markfhagen/maths.html

By Thepiskickass (Thepiskickass) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 09:07 pm: Edit

Dwix. He's like a 13 year old senior, or something...

By Binarystar (Binarystar) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Why would that make Dwix the smartest?

By Thepiskickass (Thepiskickass) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 09:12 pm: Edit

I don't know. His posts are usually pretty smart. And he has his own company(software???), too, plus he's like "pres or vp of every club on campus" or at least I remember him saying that once. He's young and he can handle that much! Maybe he's not the smartest, but yah... That's still pretty remarkable...

By Matt1587 (Matt1587) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 09:34 pm: Edit

http://www.gregoryrsmith.com/
wow

By Feuler (Feuler) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 10:11 pm: Edit

I made MO(S)P in 10th grade (140.5 AMC 12, 13 AIME, 15 USAMO); that's my main claim to fame. Except, uh, I didn't make it back this year, haha. For some reason I had really bad test days on the tests that matter (AMC), but really good test days for worthless crap (SAT I and IIs). Frustrating. I don't know if I'm actually smart, but I am good at math and standardized tests.

While I do think people who skip a lot of grades are probably smarter than average, I don't think it's a given, nor do all smart people skip grades. I know smart people my age who have almost graduated from college, and I also know smarter people who decided to stay in High School. Doesn't really matter in the long run.

By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

Feuler, you do realize that this entire board (well almost the entire board) is above at least the 95th percentile in terms of intelligence, which means that almost everybody on this board is, in the least to say, gifted?

By Cherrybarry (Cherrybarry) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 11:29 pm: Edit

I'm the smartest because I realize that mere intellectual accomplishments and recognitions are meaningless articles of superficiality that reflect the unchecked power of socialization and indoctrination of America's future.

By Baggins (Baggins) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 11:54 pm: Edit

I don't really think that everyone on this site is a genius. (it took me 3 tries just to spell that word). I may be at the top of my class where I am but I know tons of other people that could beat me any day. Before I got into high school I belonged to one club, I was an A/B student (not to mention Cs in elementary), and I was never picked for any gifted programs. I don't claim to be a genius now either. I think it would be better to say that everyone on this site is dedicated to school and wants to accomplish something in his or her life.

Sorry if that sounds too corny but someone had to say it.

By Miamiman (Miamiman) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 11:54 pm: Edit

talking about Smart kids or people in general.

How many here would qualify for any of these "selective" IQ societies

http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/criteria.html
I think the highest one I'd make it to is IQuadrivium (IQ is 149 on the Weschler Scale).

WOW, Check out the Giga Society. Damn that looks tough. I think its the "6" smartest in the world. Try taking one of those tests offered there. Im sure that will stump all the "geniuses" here at CC

By Twinkletoes696 (Twinkletoes696) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:25 am: Edit

Seriously, you can't pick a "smartest" person here. Think about it. How can we say that an artistic genius is any less or more intelligent than a mathematical one? There is more than one type of smart- hence why it's not possible to vote for the smartest kid.

By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:31 am: Edit

I so totally agree

By Jer728 (Jer728) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:34 am: Edit

Definitely, Baggins. We are here because we care about our future and are motivated to, as the army re-inforces, "be all that we can be." Sorry about that one..

By Feuler (Feuler) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:36 am: Edit

Twinkletoes is absolutely right.

By Twinkletoes696 (Twinkletoes696) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:43 am: Edit

Hey, thanks :)

Of course, I also think that IQ tests misrepresent intelligence and give people the idea that you need to be verbally/mathematically intelligent to be smart.

The kids who excel at music or can paint like no other often show mathematical or verbal strengths, but their abilities may not be fully represented on an IQ test.

Thus, we have a site mixed of driven, motivated, caring people- who are all smart yet in different ways.

By Mimi (Mimi) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

I am. :)

I don't think grades or tests can define how smart a person is.

Everybody's smart in their own way, but to me, I'm the smartest. It's called confidence. :D

By Twinkletoes696 (Twinkletoes696) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:58 am: Edit

No, they would call that arrogance.(Although, I know you're just kidding!)

Being confident is about feeling good about what you possess and being able to put it to good use!!

BTW, Apocalypse: "I know almost everybody here at CC is borderline genius".

You'd be surprised- by IQ standards, (which are kind of bunk if you ask me anyway- how can you measure my social giftedness, which is real and far surpasses my meager mathematical ability but may get me equally as far in life?) a lot of us here wouldn't be considered borderline genius. Maybe most are, but there's got to be a good chunk here who have reasonable IQs/other great strengths/a huge dose of desire.

By Welshie (Welshie) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 01:35 am: Edit

Definitely Lame, aka, Shea Ryan.

-Jesse

By Haithman (Haithman) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 02:33 am: Edit

Wow Cherrybarry you probably thought you would sound really cool but that came out "asshat-ish". You have noone to impress here.
LoL sorry, I mean no harm though .

Anyways, that Gregory Smith kid looks like he has aspirations of taking over the world. LoL. Crazy stuff.

I wholeheartidly agree with Twinkletoes. Some would say I am excellent at math, but when it comes to the arts? Haha lets not even go there. When was the last time you met someone who drew animals that had human faces? <~~~~~Right Here.
I think I'll just stick to my equations

By Oasis (Oasis) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 07:38 am: Edit

haha wouldn't be a 300 AMC index be smarter? :)

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Especially since 299.5 is impossible

By Cherrybarry (Cherrybarry) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Haithman, I feel sorry that you impose preconceived notions about some people. I'm not trying to impress anyone. The fact that you make these judgments further shows how you have been socialized and domesticated.

By Unluckycharms (Unluckycharms) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 03:30 pm: Edit

"that Gregory Smith kid looks like he has aspirations of taking over the world."

ROFL

By Bigblue04 (Bigblue04) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Cherrybarry, the fact that you make these ostentatious, pseduointellectual comments further shows how you have been mistaken and insecure in your judgement.

By Vinny919 (Vinny919) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 03:50 pm: Edit

The only person I know of to have a 300 USAMO index is Tiankai Lui (right?) from exeter. that kid is insanely smart.

By Adidasty (Adidasty) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 05:00 pm: Edit

You guys, intelligence is determined in different areas. For example: I know for a fact Haithman, Qwert, and Kewlkiwi and some of the other people on here would absolutely ruin me at a math competition. It just so happens I am extremely strong in Biology and Biological Science and I'm just as good as anybody in that subject area. I've met people that could absolutely kill me at math, but email me for help when it comes to biological and physical sciences. I've also met people that are terrible at mathematics and science but are beautiful writers and could write intelligibly on ANY given topic. Everyone has their "thing." I am very sure that almost everyone posting on CC is uniquely intelligent in some way, but to determine the MOST intelligent person would be nearly impossible and who really cares?

By Shaka (Shaka) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 05:04 pm: Edit

i bet you i kick all your asses in visual arts

By Apocalypse_Now (Apocalypse_Now) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Sorry to all the people that were offended. I created this conversation merely for fun. I am well aware of the impossibility of determining the single smartest person here. I was just curious to see what some of you consider to be your greatest accomplishments. And I assure you that I didn't intend to •••• anyone off.

Anyway, since this has essentially boiled down to another argument over what intelligence is, let's argue. I agree that someone can be intelligent in different areas, but i disagree with Twinkletoes on the subject of social giftedness. I know plenty of people who can make small talk at cocktail parties, but are frankly dumber than a box of rocks. I'll agree that being socially adept is a useful gift, but it's not intelligence.

By Feuler (Feuler) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 07:26 pm: Edit

There have been other people who have gotten a 300 AMC Index... Tiankai has done it at least once I know, but there were three others who got one last year (though the tests were ridiculously easy last year). I know Gabe Carrol did it a couple years in a row... it's not all that unusual.

Of course, what indicates that Tiankai a genius is not AMC/AIME scores... it's his Olympiad record. He's gotten a perfect USAMO three years in a row now, as well as two Gold Medals at the IMO (would be three if he hadn't done RSI last year), I think he has a few gold medals from the IOI (Computer Programming) under his belt, etc. I mean, DAMN. Although, when you have Zuming Feng teaching you math on a daily basis, I imagine you get pretty good at it. He taught some classes at MOP, and the man is amazing.

By Haithman (Haithman) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 07:30 pm: Edit

And that is what makes it so beautiful Addisty. I can probably guarantee that you would obliterate me in Biology. I hate it, although I can still manage to get an A, it bores me to tears. Why you ask? Well it doesnt have numbers. Now give me some physics problems and it might be a different story (you may still be better at this than me).
Alot of people think that if you are good at mathematics, you are a genius, but i beg to differ. Just because I can solve equations and manipulate numbers does not mean that I am any smarter than a kid who can write an eloquent speech on the effects of war on 3rd world countries, or a kid that can paint a stunning piece of art.
At times I envy those with artistic talents because I was not blessed with them, but the beautiful thing is that no one is perfect and we can all work togetether putting down our strengths and do great things!

By Bandcampgeek (Bandcampgeek) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 08:12 pm: Edit

Was I the only one who saw "Gregory Smith" and, before clicking the link, thought the person was talking about the actor from Everwood?

No?

Anyone?

By Lisasimpson (Lisasimpson) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 08:15 pm: Edit

where does it say gregory smith?

By Jens (Jens) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 08:20 pm: Edit

me too Bandcampgeek! haha

By Gottagetout (Gottagetout) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 09:44 pm: Edit

No, but I believe we can safely remove Greg Smith from the running for three reasons:

1. He doesn't visit this board (to my knowledge).
2. Having psychotic parents and being gifted != genius or whatever title you wish to bestow (but it might).
3. His official website was made with Microsoft Word.

By Haithman (Haithman) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 09:46 pm: Edit

Gottagetout: "His official website was made with Microsoft Word."
hahahahahahaha

By 1212 (1212) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit

i am the most intelligent, soon Gregory Smith and I will be the co-emperor of Tokleau, taking over the earth. We will select all of you that posted on this thread and destroy your lives, so that i may return to this post and type "LoL, u got served"

its midnight and im bored

By Silmon77 (Silmon77) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 03:04 am: Edit

I challenge anyone to a history/geography duel, as it is the one academic area in which I can beat almost anyone else. In 7th grade I came within 1 question of becoming a state finalist of the National Geography Bee. If only they had that in high school...and if only it mattered for an engineering major...

BTW I think that Gregory Smith must be one of those superhumans that are being developed by the government to unite the world under the Supreme Inquisitor of the Grand Alliance.

By Twinkletoes696 (Twinkletoes696) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 03:20 am: Edit

Apocalypse, real social giftedness extends far beyond being able to make small talk at cocktail parties. Real social giftedness is an intelligence in its own right; the ability to REALLY understand how other people think/act, being able to communicate effectively and well w/ the majority of people, to bring groups of people together, to lead them, etc. (I'm sorry, I'm pretty dead right now, I haven't slept since like Monday so bear with me). However people who are socially gifted usually have somewhat strong verbal abilities, too, so you have to be SOMEWHAT "smart" in that sense to possess social intelligence.

I would argue it is an intelligence. Some have more of it than others and some understand it much better than others.

Would you disagree that you can possess musical or kinesthetic intelligence as well?

By Lame (Lame) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 06:16 am: Edit

Obviously it is Jesse, aka "The Juice" (as in Welch's Premium Grape :0)

By Welshie (Welshie) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 06:20 am: Edit

Oh snapz.

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit

I'm the smartest because I realize that mere intellectual accomplishments and recognitions are meaningless articles of superficiality that reflect the unchecked power of socialization and indoctrination of America's future.


hahaha


sheer intelligence will do nothing. Most people who truly made a difference (Dewey, Locke, Socrates, Chomsky) were not geniuses; consequently, there have been many geniuses who did not accomplish anything. HOWEVER, gifted people who are hardworking (as in not pushed by their parents) have a greater potential than others (Hegel, Mozart, etc.) The most important thing is curiosity and eagerness to learn. Who needs to squabble about 10 points of IQ or whatnot, when the 98% of society don't even read on a consistant basis? As long as television is around, it will continue to be so. It's a shame our schools suck so much, because too many kids are dissuaded from learning.

afterthought: that's why two groups of people have emerged. Intellectuals, and non-intellectuals, the former being defined by their curiosity, intelligence, and knowledge. You don't have to be a genius to be an intellectual.

sorry bout the rant.

By Cherrybarry (Cherrybarry) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 09:56 pm: Edit

I'm merely arguing that everyone doe not start off with a clean slate. Not everyone plays the same cards. Hand-working, but ungifted people have a right to protest that society immediately puts them at a disadvantage from birth.

For example, I want to go to the movies. But I also want to get an "A" on a stupid, broing project. And I'm not very gifted in this area. So I have to skip the movies and sacrfice my social life for a stupid grade.

Whereas someone with innate ability can finish the project quickly and secure the "A", and then go to the movies and maintain a sane social life.

I don't care what others say but I have a right to be frustrated at the system.

Off topic, I know.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 10:30 pm: Edit

Sraid7777, I wrote something scathing in response to you post above. Then I thought better of it and deleted the whole thing because I thought that an angry retort would be less effective in conveying my opinion of your opinions than this calm note. So here they are: I've given you the benefit of the doubt already about what you said, but I'll ask you nonetheless. Did you come up with those generalizations yourself? Did you get them from some eye-opening book that you didn't read for class? A teacher, perhaps, or a parent? I'm asking because you come off as a typical nonconformist malcontent that can't think at all (or at least didn't there). You say that 98% of the country doesn't read on a regular basis as if that makes them wrong. I'm not just trying to pick a fight, it only seems to me that you think you have the upper hand on them (even intellectually). Do you think they don't think profound things that you never could? Wow, that was cocky of you. And in answer to the question I think you might come back with, yes I'm sure there are millions of things that people reading this including you know that I could never hope to know. Just try to be a little less overbearing. And maybe a little more purposeful in the things you write.

Looks like it trailed into my other one that I deleted. I do recognize that I may have contradicted myself, or that I may have come across as anal or arrogant or banal or anything else. Just think about what you're saying before you attach your name to it. And realize that being the self-contradictory one is taking the well-trodden path nowadays (with Buch etc. and how it's cool to go along with the antiwar effort just because your friends will think you know what you're talking about).

By Buttcrack (Buttcrack) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 06:19 am: Edit

They should create a new policy that kicks slacking students out of school. If youre not gonna study, then why go to an institution geared to it and obstruct the learning of others? If you're a slacker, then get out!

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 07:28 am: Edit

I'm not just trying to pick a fight, it only seems to me that you think you have the upper hand on them (even intellectually).

sorry if i came off as arrogant. However, what I said is true. Noam Chomsky says that in every civilization, there have the 5% of thinkers, intellectuals, and the 95% of workers. I do not spport a system like this, but here in the U.S. it's a similar situation. There are intellectual institutions (ivy+tier1 colleges, think tanks,etc.) and then there is pretty much everything else. The AVERAGE person spends very very little time on education when they have completed school. Why? Because they don't enjoy learning! They have no curiosity to know. Why do you think people idolize MTV and Britney Spears? Face it Qwert, in this world, there are two paths: Intellectual or Consumer.


Do you think they don't think profound things that you never could? Wow, that was cocky of you. And in answer to the question I think you might come back with, yes I'm sure there are millions of things that people reading this including you know that I could never hope to know.


Obviously. Everyone will have thoughts, possibly even a few "profound" ones. And since when is it necesary for me to compete against them with my ideas? What I am saying is, a majority of society is UNEDUCATED. That doesnt mean they didn't go to school, it just means that thye have no real goal. They are the collateral damage of Capitalism.


Did you come up with those generalizations yourself? Did you get them from some eye-opening book that you didn't read for class? A teacher, perhaps, or a parent? I'm asking because you come off as a typical nonconformist malcontent that can't think at all

All my ideas, as well as feelings, have been manipulated by the sources you named. My parents, teh books I've read, my experiences in school, etc. all have contributed to what I know. But in the typical sense of the word, this was an original thought.

Isn't typical nonconformist an oxymoron? If you knew anything about me, you would see that I am most certainly NOT a typical nonconformist. And no, I have no feelings of agnst. My worst trait is probably my sarcasm, not my arrogance.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Maybe they know that getting 'high up' in life isn't nearly the most important thing. If you think you can divide people into groups based on their drive for education, then that's all you've done, you haven't separated anything in terms intellectualism. I'm in a rush so I'll finish up in a few hours.

By Mrbesch (Mrbesch) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Honestly, does it matter who the smartest person is?

I say we just respect each other as equals, on all levels.

By Dkm (Dkm) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 03:23 pm: Edit

i know this post is meant to be a fun thing etc..

but i really think there is no point in having a passion for learning or studying

i mean u have to study/learn in order to get a job (make money), that is basically the point of education. once u reached the point that point..then u have to enjoy life

who in the hell wants to read or do math problems for fun...thats totally stupid
i would rather party, play sports, enjoy myself
u know life is short..u have to live it up..no point trying to be smart

By Emily_Uk (Emily_Uk) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 04:06 pm: Edit

I'd like to not nominate me. I work with the right side of my brain and neglect the left. I got 89%, joint top score in my Drama Practical and quit maths to join R.E. :)

I don't think it's possible to find the superlative of clever as everyone has different strengths.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 06:54 pm: Edit

You cite Norm Chomsky as if that's enough evidence to prove your claim. Just because he says that 95% of people are consumers, it isn't necessarily true. Do you have any right to label them consumers, workers, non-educated people? Face it? Okay.

"What I am saying is, a majority of society is UNEDUCATED. That doesnt mean they didn't go to school, it just means that thye have no real goal. They are the collateral damage of Capitalism." They are uneducated, therefore they have no real goal? Capitalism? How would things be better if, we lived in say, a Communist society? People would have even less drive because everything would be provided for them already. What does "they are the collateral damage of Capitalism" mean? In what society do all people fit the 5% desciption?

Perhaps I should have said 'the typical wannabe non-conformist.'

By Kewlkiwi102 (Kewlkiwi102) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 07:14 pm: Edit

I agree with Mrbesch!


Also, to Dkm:
"i mean u have to study/learn in order to get a job (make money)
who in the hell wants to read or do math problems for fun...thats totally stupid"

You seem to be more concerned with the money an education can make you rather than learning for the sake of learning. Since you are so focused on money, I have a buisness idea for you that could make you lots of cash, quickly. Why dont you sell your brain! You could make quite a profit on it, seeing that in your case, it is brand new and has never been used!

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:29 pm: Edit

but i really think there is no point in having a passion for learning or studying

i mean u have to study/learn in order to get a job (make money), that is basically the point of education. once u reached the point that point..then u have to enjoy life

who in the hell wants to read or do math problems for fun...thats totally stupid
i would rather party, play sports, enjoy myself
u know life is short..u have to live it up..no point trying to be smart


utterly ridiculous...it's called curiosity. I won't even start.
To the fool, he who speaks wisdom will sound foolish. -Euripides

qwert, I'll deal with you in another post..

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:02 pm: Edit

dictionary.com: intellectual

Given to activities or pursuits that require exercise of the intellect.

You cite Norm Chomsky as if that's enough evidence to prove your claim. Just because he says that 95% of people are consumers, it isn't necessarily true. Do you have any right to label them consumers, workers, non-educated people? Face it? Okay.

it is a generalization; nevertheless, a true one. Are you attempting to convince me that a MAJORITY of people in the United States are intelligent, curious, and overall intellectual people? Hell no.

They are uneducated, therefore they have no real goal? Capitalism?

see post above. What's teh point of education to most people? $$$$$! PEOPLE WANT TO GO TO HYP, NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO LEARN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT IF YOU ATTEND THOSE UNIVERSITIES, THERE IS A HIGHER PROBABILITY THAT THEY WILL BECOME RICH. Our society is overly capitalistic. People spend money on art, because it is a good investment, not for its aesthetic beauty. FACE IT QWERT, people are STUPID!

What does "they are the collateral damage of Capitalism" mean?

it means that they have been tuned into MONEY MAKING. Money controls their actions. IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THERE IS NO HIGHER GOAL THAN BEING RICH. Donald Trump, an obnoxious buffoon, commands more respect from the average American than people such as Neil Postman, Samuel P. Huntington,amd Chomsky, among others. I do not support communism. It does not work. But I do support Marx for calling attention to this problem. I have a syaing, communism may not be the answer, but capitalism is the problem. I believe, that due to the fact that we live in a capitlistic society, there is less emphasis placed on something like education. ONLY in CERTAIN places here in the U.S. is there actual, intellectual thought going on; I've already mentioned them. There are twoclasses qwert. Intellectuals and everyone else. Everyone else are the same ignorant fools who watch MTV and TV, listen to pop music, read stupid fiction (now called "chick lit"). These are the people who DO NOT MATTER. THey will live, laugh, cry, and then die. Some will be rich, some will be poor. $ is not the goal of life. I feel bad for those who have already been subjugated to this type of commercialism. I know all this sounds opinionated, but most people have their blinders on. Most people, and kids, want fun. Since when is fun the ••••••• promised land? What happened to the ancient greeks, who gathered around Socrates to hear him speak? Where did the curiosity that Charles Darwin have go? The more I think about it, the more desolate the situation becomes in my mind. Qwert, I ask you to stop being confrontational. I've come tot eh conclusion that there are only two classes in our world. Which group will you associate yourself with?

I really do hope you understand what I;m saying. No doubt you think I am an arrogant f'er, but you have to take a look from anotehr perspective. Do you see the two worlds? In the 1930's, the intellectuals were thinking. Dewey and Lipman were writing- while Mr. and Mrs. Smith were raising the kids, going to work, and listening to FDR give his fireside chats. Even the 30's the average person was more intellectual than today. It is a sad state of affairs.


Perhaps I should have said 'the typical wannabe non-conformist.'

wannabe non-conformist? Are you joking me? Go ahead, make your god damn money. And when you die, everyone will remember you. For having 30 billion less than Bill Gates. bullshhit. Tell your future wife I say hi. When your kid is born, remember this. Who will be the fuckin conformist then? Who will choose the smae path as the other 12 billion people in human history? What, you think you will be something special? There will always be someone who made more $ than you, or had better parties, or more sex, or whatever it may be. So go, quickly. Because I am the conformist.

If ignorance is bliss, then wipe teh smile off my face.


I apologize for the length, but I felt it was important. I look forward to your rebuttal.

By Wunderkind__Not (Wunderkind__Not) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 12:26 am: Edit

I got a 153 IQ last year and a 149 when I was 7

I learned to read when I was 3

(I learn quickly in general)

I am artistic (plan on majoring in architecture)

I cannot ride a bike

By Deor (Deor) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 02:22 am: Edit

>>>>>>I cannot ride a bike>>>

Keep at it, buddy.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

Wunderkid: 149 when you were 7 isn't better than 149 when you're 40. They scale it up until age 16, I think. Sraid7777, I have no time this moment, I'll be back tonight.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:20 pm: Edit

You seem to think that intellect = good => happiness. Just because you believe that intellect is the ‘true’ path and you can convince your fellow ‘intellects’ here that you’re correct, it doesn’t mean it’s true. Do you think you’re more successful than some person in Nebraska who works in the cornfields, is happy, and has no true education? Just because you think you see clearer than them doesn’t mean that you do.

“Those are the people who do not matter.” BS. You matter more because you think you’re spreading a worthy idea?

My main point is that you assume that you are superior to them because you’re realized something that has caused you to be driven. If they have no interest in learning about something you do, that’s fine. They’re not wrong. Are you going to tell them they aught to care more about something or they’re wrong for not? That’s like me telling you that you should be something you’re not.

You’re last paragraph: What makes you thing I want to “go ahead and make [my] god damn money?” When did I ever suggest that I thought that money was the way to success? I said that I think you’re a wannabe non-conformist because it seems to me that you’re just regurgitating out this argument without thinking about it. I’m referring to the definitions of non-conformity that I have: establishment-hating. I’m calling your argument contrived. I am not by default defending the establishment; so don’t accuse me of defining success in terms of parties, sex, etc. You just took that one out of thin air.

Please don’t support your argument with a reference from a dictionary. We’re not debating the formal definition.

“In the USA, there is no higher goal than being rich.” What’s your goal? To be educated, to be intellectually curious, to be able to believe that you’re better than all those people who “DO NOT MATTER?” Try seeing things from outside of your perspective.

“Even in the ‘30’s the average person was more intellectual than today. It is a sad state of affairs.” Yes, you have the power and enlightenment to judge. You imply that more intellect = better. Again, you have the power and enlightenment to judge?

You said originally, “What I am saying is, a majority of society is UNEDUCATED. That doesnt mean they didn't go to school, it just means that thye have no real goal.” Then I quoted you and you talked about people only using education for $$$. Please answer my question: are you saying that people who are ‘uneducated’ in our sense of the word have no real goals?

Finally: I don’t necessarily disagree that society can be divided into categories based on intelligence, whatever. But my point is that education, intelligence, curiousness, etc. are not the dividing lines for the ‘quality’ of a person.

Cheap shot: “Qwert, I ask you to stop being confrontational. I've come tot eh conclusion that there are only two classes in our world. Which group will you associate yourself with?” I lose respect for you for that one.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

You think your goals are superior to anyone else's just because you happen to believe them? God, you're so ••••••• close-minded.

By Kewlkiwi102 (Kewlkiwi102) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:45 pm: Edit

What we have all lost sight of here is that the point of life is to be happy, and as long as we can accomplish that goal without sacreficing the happiness of others, it is all that matters.
Do think and say what makes you happy, not what makes anyone else happy.
If money makes you happy, go for it.
If knowledge makes you happy, go for it.
If physical exertion makes you happy, go for it.
If smoking pot makes you happy, im sorry to say no, dont go for it. thats just not good for you.
Intellectual or nonintellectual or semiintelectual or whatever the heck you are, your ultimate happiness is the point.

~idealistic rant thingie over~

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Nebraska who works in the cornfields, is happy, and has no true education? Just because you think you see clearer than them doesn’t mean that you do.


so you're going to go Henry David Thoreau on my aass? That man is happy. It is not him who I have a problem with. I have a problem with these kids who hate READING Romeo and Juliet in class, but love watching West Side Story. I have a problem with these brainless fools, who are more conformist than I will ever be.

BS. You matter more because you think you’re spreading a worthy idea?


I have achieved nothing in life. So far. But I still contend that most people do not matter. Like I said, they will live, laugh, cry, and die. They will have ups and downs, and personal stories, etc., but make no real contribution to society, humanity, etc. other than making Mr. Corporation happy by buying his product.


My main point is that you assume that you are superior to them because you’re realized something that has caused you to be driven. If they have no interest in learning about something you do, that’s fine. They’re not wrong. Are you going to tell them they aught to care more about something or they’re wrong for not? That’s like me telling you that you should be something you’re not.

They don't necesarily have to learn about the same things I do. THey should certainly learn though. As children, we have a natural curiosity. They should follow that curiosity. Not have it ruined by MTV and entertainment. Do science, math, literature, whatever. But they should WANT to learn. It is natural.

“In the USA, there is no higher goal than being rich.” What’s your goal? To be educated, to be intellectually curious, to be able to believe that you’re better than all those people who “DO NOT MATTER?” Try seeing things from outside of your perspective.

In fact, I am confused as to what exactly my goal is. But I do know the general path, the same path I have been pushing this entire thread. THe pursuit of knowledge. Intellectualism. I guess it's my own arrogance when I think that I am better than uneducated people, but it just makes me frustrated. There is so much out there to learn, adn what do they do? Nothing...The reason I say these things, is not to hurt the unintellectual. I hope that some kids actually get what the hell I;m saying, and see what they are doing. I'm not supporting an intellectual oligarchy here. THe final result of all this is showing kids the other path, education. you seem to think I enjoy being surrounded by idiots. Well, I don't. And will anything ever get changed if someone doesn't point out, "something is wrong here".


are you saying that people who are ‘uneducated’ in our sense of the word have no real goals?

Oh no, they surely have goals. Superficial, shallow, ridiculous, and inane goals. like to get Britney's autograph, and make a lot of $, and get a ferrari. These are all goals, just not the correct kind.


But my point is that education, intelligence, curiousness, etc. are not the dividing lines for the ‘quality’ of a person.

of course not. I'm sure in the Amazon, you will find plenty of people who've never heard of Darwin, but they're damn good fellows nonetheless. Quality of a person is not solely dependant on education. But would you not agree that an educated person is more likely to have greater quality than a non educated person?


I lose respect for you for that one.

It is a serious question. Will you proceed to live a "normal" life, have some fun, etc., and die- or will you choose something else? The latter will probably be more satisfying in the long run as well. I kept the something else vague, because it is a variable. It's whatever you want it to be.

Finally: qwert, I know I said some serious bull$hit in the process of our conversation, but the general foundation remains.(from my first post in this thread): The most important thing is curiosity and eagerness to learn.

By Bdreamm (Bdreamm) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 12:37 am: Edit

They should create a new policy that kicks slacking students out of school. If youre not gonna study, then why go to an institution geared to it and obstruct the learning of others? If you're a slacker, then get out! "

I think it would be pretty hard to differentiate slacking students. I know many who study for hours on end, yet barely grab a C.. while others who study 10 min. before the test Aces it without a trouble. The thing with tests is that it doesn't necessairly reflect the time and 'work' the student spent(which is why i hate them).

There are a lot of people who turn in all the work, go to class everyday, listen/take notes, yet unfortunately receive poor test scores.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 09:24 am: Edit

I think I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if you understand what I'm saying because you keep sidestepping my questions. I'll address yours then I'll ask mine again.

You seem to be basing your entire argument on your belief that intellectual curiousity, anti-consumer mindset, education, etc. are the paths to success, happiness, everything for EVERYONE. Why? Because you believe it. Can you not see that for some people it's not the righteous path? Some people are perfectly content in doing whatever the fucck they do, and that's fantastic. They aren't wrapped up in all the goals they set for themselves. Maybe they even idolize Britney Spears. That's okay. You may think she's crappy, but they don't. Why does it matter if you see her as a product of consumerism or what-the-••••-ever? They are happy. Isn't that the meaning of life? Who are you to say that everyone should follow what you believe in?

"But would you not agree that an educated person is more likely to have greater quality than a non educated person?" No, I do not agree. In fact that's been the basis for my entire argument, which is why I think you don't get it. Education, intelligence, personality, etc. are all just things. How are they different from looks? You're born with both, there's very little you can do about both, just because one is more respected more than the other or will get you further in life doesn't mean it's more important. They're as superficial as looks. Would you agree that someone who looks good is more likely to have greater quality than someone who doesn't? I don't.

"Oh no, they surely have goals. Superficial, shallow, ridiculous, and inane goals. like to get Britney's autograph, and make a lot of $, and get a ferrari. These are all goals, just not the correct kind." Then: "Will you proceed to live a "normal" life, have some fun, etc., and die- or will you choose something else? The latter will probably be more satisfying in the long run as well." Okay, so your goal is to be satisfied? How is that less inane than getting a Ferrari? They're just things.

"Do science, math, literature, whatever. But they should WANT to learn. It is natural." We have a basic disagreement here. I don't think you should want to learn. Evidently, if we look at society, it's not natural for everyone. Do whatever the fucck you want to. Don't worry about what's gonna get you the most satisfaction. It's like worrying about what's gonna get you the most money.

Again, why to they have to want to make some contribution to society? Why the fucck should they not want to make Mr. Corporation happy? Sure, you think it's a scam and it'll lead to crappiness, but for them it's a low-priced sweater.

And here's the one you sidestepped: I wrote, quoting you, then asking a question, ""Even in the ‘30’s the average person was more intellectual than today. It is a sad state of affairs." Yes, you have the power and enlightenment to judge. You imply that more intellect = better. Again, you have the power and enlightenment to judge?"

Please address all of my points. Thanks.

James

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 09:29 am: Edit

Kewlkiwi102: I think you summed up one aspect of my argument hella nicely.

By Happeepanda (Happeepanda) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit

what a heated discussion!
BTW- does everybody just use vocabulary they learned naturally, or do you just put in words that would impress people (i don't mean to sound rude, but I'm worried my vocabulary skills are not up to par)

Anyways, Straid, about one thing you said...listening to pop music, reading fictional literature, watching MTV and TV...these are things many of us enjoy, and for someone to criticize that is not right. I am in the top 5% of my class, I have 4.5 GPA, I am president of Library Club and Community Liason for Interact Club, and involved in many others. I am a full IB Diploma candidate.

I love to watch Mad TV and SNL and Daria on TV. I feel happy when I watch SpongeBob SquarePants. I wear spiky bracelets, I have bought 3 Britney Spears CD's, I make remixes of music, I make cheerleading remixes, I have watched Shrek maybe 12 times, I have spent 600 hours and $3,000 playing Dance Dance Revolution and Buying Dance Dance Revolution games and merchandise, I like the Sanrio shop in the mall, Spencer's gifts has cool bracelets and I buy them, I am excited about Paper Mario 2 for the gamecube...

Am I not good enough to be considered intelligent? I enjoy so much stuff which will lead me to failure, right? Isn't that what you said?

Well, no. I am also driven by curiosity and thirst for success, thirst for knowledge, thirst for a good job. Yes, I want a good job with a good pay so I can be rich beyond my wildest dreams...

Am I wrong again? Is there something wrong with what I want? Do you know why I want to make as much money as possible? I am a vegetarian on the verge of becoming a vegan. I am a supporter and soon to be activist of Animal Rights. I cry for the millions of innocent animals murdered every day. I want money, power, and influence to stop this madness, or at least work towards this goal! I also want to shut down the dog and cat pound system in the United states, or change them so animals do not get killed. IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!!!

Anyways...I am not wrong for wanting money and liking Britney Spears so nyah (Sticking tongue out)!

By Kousuke (Kousuke) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 01:32 pm: Edit

i heard Britney Spears has an iq of 176.

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 04:01 pm: Edit

"Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth, more than ruin, more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man."
Bertrand Russell

Can you not see that for some people it's not the righteous path?

It would benefit society more if everyone wanted to be educated. Hapeepanda, if people had read and understood the Ethics of Kant, Spinoza, etc., do you think they would still kill stray animals? In a completely educated society, there would be less problems. But in our world, where Jay-Z and 50 Cent are seen as idols, 56% of all inmates are African-American.

Maybe they even idolize Britney Spears. That's okay. You may think she's crappy, but they don't. Why does it matter if you see her as a product of consumerism or what-the-••••-ever? They are happy. Isn't that the meaning of life?

exactly. My goldfish is also happy. He/She has plenty of clean water, gets food, and has no real enemies, save my cat. Well, I guess people should not strive to know, because, god-damn it, they are happy! Oh, and regarding Britney Spears, it has been proven that classical music is better for your mind than pop music. It is more complex, provoking, and altogether more beneficial. So •••• britney.


Education, intelligence, personality, etc. are all just things. How are they different from looks? You're born with both, there's very little you can do about both, just because one is more respected more than the other or will get you further in life doesn't mean it's more important. They're as superficial as looks. Would you agree that someone who looks good is more likely to have greater quality than someone who doesn't? I don't.

First of all, you can most certainly change your intelligence nad knowledge. All it takes is an eagerness to know.
And education is most certainly NOT as superficial as looks. Education can solve many of today's problems; now, if one only uses his/her intelligence to show off, and brag, etc. then yes, it is just as superficial. But if people actually use their minds to solve problems (i.e. global warming), then it is logical that intelligence is NOT as superficial as looks.

Okay, so your goal is to be satisfied?

touche- I believe it was you who stated that the Nebraska famer is content, adn that's all that matters. I said that because it seems that your goal is to be satisfied and/or happy.


Evidently, if we look at society, it's not natural for everyone.

that's because a chain reaction of stupidity has taken place. Parents are not educated-children do nto want to learn-their children, etc., etc. The consequence is that an intellectual elite have been created. Bill Joy's kids will be leaps and bounds ahead of Joe Smith's kids, not because of Joy's $, but because of his knowledge. In humanity's natural state, we want to learn. Go hang out with a 3 year for proof.


Again, why to they have to want to make some contribution to society? Why the fucck should they not want to make Mr. Corporation happy? Sure, you think it's a scam and it'll lead to crappiness, but for them it's a low-priced sweater.

whoa,whoa,whoa... a low priced sweater? Qwert, didn't you state in the same post that a ferrari and education are just "things"? They should have to make mr. corporation happy because in turn corporation will pollute the waters, killing those very same animals that panda likes.

Again, you have the power and enlightenment to judge?"

No, but I do have a brain. And I skip some of your points because they are tangents aimed at diverging the course of this debate. Some of it simply wasn't worth responding to.


kewl:
Do think and say what makes you happy, not what makes anyone else happy.

the typical capitalist mindset. •••• everyone else, I want a car that has 3 seats too many and only gets 12 miles to the gallon. It makes me happy.

Hell no. We all must make certain concessions. If everyone does what makes them happy (which could include murdering someone, or destroying public property, or raping a girl), then the happyness of someone else will clearly be infringed upon. Your statement may sound good, but it is fundamentally weak.


HapeePanda:
BTW- does everybody just use vocabulary they learned naturally, or do you just put in words that would impress people (i don't mean to sound rude, but I'm worried my vocabulary skills are not up to par)

you might want to turn off the television. Then read "Amusing ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman.

reading fictional literature

wtf are you saying? Fiction is better than non-fiction for amny subjects. Don't pull stuff out of your ass.

these are things many of us enjoy, and for someone to criticize that is not right.

maybe you should add "debate" to your resume, because you obviously don't know what the hell you are doing. "Is not right"? By whose standards? So why can the president critisize Al-Qaeda or whatever? How can the United Nations condemn countries for human rights abuses? And excuse me, but since when does a single person get to decide what is critisized and what is not? I'll critisize anything I damn please, and you won't censor me. Ts, thats not right...

I wear spiky bracelets, I have bought 3 Britney Spears CD's, I make remixes of music, I make cheerleading remixes, I have watched Shrek maybe 12 times, I have spent 600 hours and $3,000 playing Dance Dance Revolution and Buying Dance Dance Revolution games and merchandise, I like the Sanrio shop in the mall, Spencer's gifts has cool bracelets and I buy them, I am excited about Paper Mario 2 for the gamecube...

hahahaha. I won't even respond. Go ahead. Make yourself "happy". I find it hilariously ironic that you complain about the killings of cats and dogs, when over 1 BILLION people do not have access to clean water. You seem to value animal life (not even endangered animals, cats adn dogs) more than human life. I advise you to be a little introspective. Maybe you'll see your problem. But then again, you probably won't.

I want money, power, and influence to stop this madness, or at least work towards this goal!

In your march for global animal domination, I wonder how many backs you will step on. Get your mind straight, honey, then come back and respond.

By Needhelp06 (Needhelp06) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 04:13 pm: Edit

omg Sraid7777, I think you need better things to do rather than type an extremely lengthy response in argument against people you dont know. this post is ridiculous and the willingness of people to seriously debate this issue is just stupid. cmon people get lives.

By Thermodude (Thermodude) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Whoa....rather heated discussion here....

Sraid77...i'd just like to point out that your definition of the pursuit of knowledge is rather selective....it appears that you believe the only path to learning is by sitting down and reading a book (which is, btw, an excellent way to learn).

There are, however, many other paths to learning. Going to a social gathering (like say...a birthday party) can teach a person a lot about relationships, socialogy and the manner with which members of the human species interact with each other, many times moreso than any textbook could ever do.

-----"so you're going to go Henry David Thoreau on my aass? That man is happy. It is not him who I have a problem with. I have a problem with these kids who hate READING Romeo and Juliet in class, but love watching West Side Story. I have a problem with these brainless fools, who are more conformist than I will ever be."-------

Ok.....who gave you the power to state that West Side Story is worth less than Romeo and Juliet. That's just your personal opinion. My belief is that literature and film cannot really be quantified (reminds me of a little scene from "Dead Poets Society", where the author of the text book explains how to find the "value" of poetry.) As far as I am concerned, you are merely conforming to popular opinion, which DOES hold Romeo and Juliet in a higher respect. I personally enjoy West Side Story more....mainly for the reason that I am able to connect to it better since it is set in contemporary times...

Finally, just because Heepanda is concerned about the rights of animals, it doesn't mean that she isn't concerned about other issues as well. You very well make the assumption that Heepanda doesn't care about access to clean water...but for all I know...a person CAN be concerned about more than one issue. I for one, am concerned both about unsanitary conditions that many in third world countries have to endure.....but I am also concerned about the increasing damage which is occuring to our environment.

By Nosx (Nosx) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Man this is an intersting debate. Furthermore a question bit off-topic, Sraid777 can you propose a list of quality books? I am interested in books that will broaden my horizon during the summer.

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 07:04 pm: Edit

I'm signing off of this argument because you just don't get my perspective and we're gonna keep going around in circles trying to attack each other. It's extremely frustrating when you avoid the question and challenge an assumption that only you made.

Like this one: "Again, you have the power and enlightenment to judge?"

No, but I do have a brain. And I skip some of your points because they are tangents aimed at diverging the course of this debate. Some of it simply wasn't worth responding to." Yes, my motive to is divert the argument. This is the fourth time I typed that sentence, and I'm still looking for an answer because all you did was say no. I'm saying that you have no right to hold any of the opinions you do for every person. That's all. Period. And another thing, why did you bring up the stat '56% of all inmates are black?' It has no pertinence.

I just want to say this: take your own advice and try to argue this out in your head. Try to see where all those 'nothings' are coming from. Don't just assume that you're smarter than they are, because in my opinion you're not. Try to see where I'm coming from in my argument. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying now either. Take five minutes of your time, sit down, and think: where is all this education and curiousity for knowledge gonna get me? Sure, I'll feel better about myself (it's just as shallow as greed imo), but then where?

Please don't respond to this. I don't want to be tempted to respond again.

By Thermodude (Thermodude) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 07:11 pm: Edit

lol....its sorta funny how the subject of this thread has changed.....still....i hope no one gets offended or anything....after all...we are just having an intellectual debate....and I do respect the fact that Sraid believes in what he/she is saying (i hold disagreements of course).

By Curtisny (Curtisny) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Sraid7777:

Get a grip on the angst, buddy. You're coming off as a whiny little "i hate the world" brat...

By Royalchk (Royalchk) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 10:46 pm: Edit

This thread has generated nearly 150 hits on my website thus far!

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 05:46 pm: Edit

omg Sraid7777, I think you need better things to do rather than type an extremely lengthy response in argument against people you dont know. this post is ridiculous and the willingness of people to seriously debate this issue is just stupid. cmon people get lives.


what does the anonimity (sp?) of the posters have to do with anything? It is teh idea that we are arguing for and against..

it appears that you believe the only path to learning is by sitting down and reading a book (which is, btw, an excellent way to learn).


I agree. The way I learn best is by reading, so I guess I refer to it a little too much. My ommission of other methods doesn't discount their effectiveness.


There are, however, many other paths to learning. Going to a social gathering (like say...a birthday party) can teach a person a lot about relationships, socialogy and the manner with which members of the human species interact with each other, many times moreso than any textbook could ever do.


That is pretty much correct. First of all, I hate textbooks (but I hate teachers that teach directly from them even more). But what type of party is this? Is it like Bozo the clown, or is it a more adult (dare I say mature?) type of party?

A point which I didn't mention is balance. The stuff I'm promoting here will make a normal person sick if that's all one did. Everything has to be balanced- enough fun (my guilty pleasures is Xbox and the internet), enough learning, etc. But in most cases of today's kids, the scales are tilted heavily in favor of entertainment.


who gave you the power to state that West Side Story is worth less than Romeo and Juliet. That's just your personal opinion.

If this were a real debate, I would point to Neil Postman. As you stated, you might LIKE west side story more, but for your mind, reading R+J is most probably better.

You very well make the assumption that Heepanda doesn't care about access to clean water...

I make this assumption because she put a great deal of emphasis on animal rights, and none what so ever on other issues. It is a bit biased, and she could easily rebutt that if she spoke about other things. Then again, I was a bit harsh so she probably won't respond.

sorry to hear that Qwert.

Try to see where I'm coming from in my argument. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying now either.

I am guessing that my point looks arrogant, immature, and wrong. I have (tried) seen this issue from many sides. There are certainly holes. I just wanted to bring the point that why argue overa few IQ points when most kids are far below that level. My own views are somewhat cluttered, so it will probably take a formal essay of some kind to get them in order. I just hope that you came away with some information on what I was trying to get across. I got your side, which is a valid point. I know I responded, but it's better to finish off this discourse instead of leaving it half-done.


and I do respect the fact that Sraid believes in what he/she is saying

lol, did you actually think that I might be a girl? Thanks anyway...education and pedagogy is a very confusing issue to begin with, and that's where most of this miscommunication arises from.

Get a grip on the angst, buddy. You're coming off as a whiny little "i hate the world" brat...

I don't hate the world. I take a more Betrand Russell type view on it; most people are not worth knowing. It's nihilistic, but sadly true. Sartre and Camus both agreed that Human life is irrelevant and absurd. For the most part, they were right. In that case, some of the greatest philosophers of the 20th century, if not of all history, were also "whiny little...brats".


This thread has generated nearly 150 hits on my website thus far!

cool. could you provide a link to the site?

books- check out the next post..

again, I apologize for the length. It's the damn quotations.

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 06:03 pm: Edit

can you propose a list of quality books? I am interested in books that will broaden my horizon during the summer.

I love summer simply because it gives me time to do whatever I want. I'll be taking a creative writing course, so that will cut into my time a bit. I am shooting for 20 books this summer (last summer I read 22 very good books, mostly classics, but no huge ones like The Brothers Karamazov..). My reading interests are pretty wacky- I almost despise anything on a current fiction bestsellers list, but I love all the old stuff. "A man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read at all"- Mark Twain.

my complete reading list for this summer and beyond: I am looking for suggestions, so post any recs:

Arthur Miller- Death of a Salesman, Crucible,
William Faulkner
Aldous Huxley- Point Counter Point
Nabakov- inivitation to a beheading
Neil Postman- teaching as a subversive activity
William Langer (?)
Joyce- Ulysses, Portrait
D.h. Lawrence
R. Wright- Native Son
Hemingway- Sun Also Rises, Farewell to ARms
Henry Miller- Tropic of Cancer
Uncle Tom's Cabin
Steinbeck- Tortilla Flat, Cannary Row
Morrison- Beloved
Ray Bradbury
C.S. Lewis- Screwtape Letters
ThingsFall Apart ( I read this one already)
Dickens-
Frederick Douglass-
Dostoevsky- Brothers, The idiot, Crime and P
Henry James- turn of the screw
Voltaire
WEB Du Bois
Kesey- One Flew Over
Vonnegut- Welcome to the monkeyu house
Camus- The plague, myth of sisiphus
Malcom X- Autobiography
Orwell- STE (what book is this?)
Heinlein- Stranger
Zen + the art of motorcycle
Huntington
No Exit- Sartre
The Sea Wolf- London
The Story of Civilization History series by Will Durant (I want to get really good at history, so does anyone have any suggestions for good history books?)
Tender is the Night
Watership Down
Jorge Borges
Tolstoy
Kerouc- On the Road
Angelou- I know why...
Walden
checkov- orchard
Goethe- Faust
Proust- Swann;s way
All Quiet on the Western Front
Samuel Beckett
Classical Music for dummies
the prince- machiavelli
Lord Jim- Conrad
Gaardner- Sophie's World
Penguin compiled works of Cicero
Guns Germs and sTeel
Thomas Mann
Shakespeare- King Lear

then I have some philosophy

Rousseau- Basic Political Writings
Bertrand Russell Autobiography
hobbes- Basic Political Writings
Common Sense- Paine
The Complete Works of Nietzsche

etc., etc., etc.

Some of that stuff will be way over my head- (see Hobbes), but other stuff is a probable read (One flew over...)

Just so there's no confusion: I didn't mention a lot of great books by the above authors. This is not because I don't like them, it's because I've read them. So Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck isn't on there, because I read it, but its still an amazing book. I need to find more good Non-Fiction, but my dad will certainly have some good suggestions on that topic.

Hope the list helps.

By Mehere (Mehere) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

sup kids?

get serious man. get serious.

the smartest guy in my school is Harvey Zhang and Jerry Fan and they are no doubt two of the smartest in the world.
so get serious.

By Jenesaispas (Jenesaispas) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Dickens's Bleak House is soooooo good. I loved it.

By Silentopen (Silentopen) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Very interesting that you espouse nihilism but believe in bettering society through structured methods. You knock capitalism for its side effects but you do not realize what its alternative would be. Nihilism + socialism = an end to society

I didn't see Ayn Rand on your book list. If you haven't already read her works, I suggest reading them soon.

By Royalchk (Royalchk) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 08:05 pm: Edit

My site is www.geocities.com/markfhagen, and following the maths link will get one places....

By Dannyferizzle (Dannyferizzle) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 08:26 pm: Edit

Sraid, there is no point in reading those books unless you understand them -- you woulndt be able to tell the difference between Walden and a Dan Brown novel.

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

you woulndt be able to tell the difference between Walden and a Dan Brown novel.


haha, what makes you say that? I love internet flaming, because it is always completely unfounded.


Very interesting that you espouse nihilism but believe in bettering society through structured methods. You knock capitalism for its side effects but you do not realize what its alternative would be. Nihilism + socialism = an end to society

jesus, everyone seems to enjoy taking shots at me...

of course nihilism would mean the end of society. Let's not get into socialism vs. capitalism please, thats an entire 200 post thread for itself. Luckily, most people will not become nihilistic, but that doesn't mean that the majority is correct. I never thought I would say this, but I'm almost tired of debating. No doubt I'll come back strong tomorrow.

By Dannyferizzle (Dannyferizzle) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Look you're a couple punctuation marks close to plagiarism, if you're going to cite other people use quotation--although there is a clear intelligence gap between what you wrote and what others wrote so I guess you'll be okay.

By Adidasty (Adidasty) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 11:07 pm: Edit

ROOTS by Alex Haley

By Curtisny (Curtisny) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

"I don't hate the world. I take a more Betrand Russell type view on it; most people are not worth knowing. It's nihilistic, but sadly true. Sartre and Camus both agreed that Human life is irrelevant and absurd. For the most part, they were right. In that case, some of the greatest philosophers of the 20th century, if not of all history, were also "whiny little...brats". "

Your attempts at coming off as an intellectual are really trite...You don’t need to namedrop in every single post you make.

By Edwebdev (Edwebdev) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Well, as far as gauges of intelligence are concerned, I would like to offer this quote from "Your Erroneous Zones." It's a psychology book of some sort (my dad's a psychologist).

"The true measure of an individual's intelligence is not his or her ability to SOLVE problems, but, rather, his or her ability to DEAL WITH them."

Of course, everything to do with this topic is highly subjective. Just thought I'd offer my .02.
And yes, I know that book titles should be underlined, not enclosed in quotation marks.

happy discussing!

By Dannyferizzle (Dannyferizzle) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Curtisny offers very valuable advice Sraid -- start thinking.

By Sagar_Indurkhya (Sagar_Indurkhya) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 07:48 pm: Edit

Ok. After reading this forum, some stuff has become pretty clear. When I was young, i had this insane little dream that I wanted to be the smartest person on earth "officially." Now I have grown up to become a rising sophomore in High School.

Many people consider all these people who score high on standardized tests, and get into good colleges, etc. I object. Here is why:

I know so many people who are lazy, and slackers, but have brilliant minds. If they work hard, they would be geniuses. Their laziness is their setback. I study, and work hard, so that I can make all A's, and take the hardest classes. When all these people here show off their AMC scores, I am not impressed. What impresses me is a orphan child who lives in a foster home, has no access to a computer, and gets into MIT. Opportunities are what makes someone, or breaks someone. If you don't take risks, and grab opportunities, then regardless of how smart you are, you are still an average joe sitting on your couch at home. Valedictorians are often respected for being the "smartest" person in school. What really makes a valedictorian however is the effort he/she puts into school. Intelligence amounts to nothing if you don't use it. Any truly intelligent person will be using their intelligence to do something bigger than you or me.

That's all I can say before dinner... sorry.

Oh yeah! For all you people flaming on the "dumbasses" at school, and around the world: STFU. Here is why:

1. Some of them are my friends.
2. If everyone in the world was smart, and took the initiative to use their intelligence, we wouldn't have anything to boast about, because they would be on par with us.

Sagar Indurkhya

"You miss 100% of the opportunities you don't take!"

By Jenesaispas (Jenesaispas) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 12:43 am: Edit

"most people are not worth knowing."

That's the only thing I have a problem with. I hope this was a remark made with sarcastic undertones. If it isn't, I might have to come to your house and beat you up.

And, by the way, nobody has the right to determine who's worth knowing, since we're all equal here.

By Duke3d4 (Duke3d4) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 05:28 pm: Edit

I'm definetly the smartest because I'm manipulative and I believe the end justifies the means. Through history, the smart/evil people will conquer the smart/nice people. I am the best.

By Sticksandstones (Sticksandstones) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 06:17 pm: Edit

"I know so many people who are lazy, and slackers, but have brilliant minds."

true that Sagar_Indurkhya. not that I am one of them but my friends are all the most brilliant minds, but they never apply them. For example, one of the poeple I talk to often, is a amazing thinker, just talking to him will feel like talking to an Ivy League philosophy professor but he never cares to do homework or other assignments. THen another two of my friends know everything you can know about wiring and electric stuff,i mean these guys have made tesla coils themselves but dont care enough to join the F.I.R.S.T Robotics team or do good in their academics.

It's just apathy. sometimes i just feel like screaming " CARE, dammit !!!!!!" to them.

By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 12:06 pm: Edit

does anyone else get the feeling of invalidity when comparing yourself to a slacker genius? I mean, if I were in Sticksandstones's positions I would feel invalid somehow by joining the robotics team, because they will still be better than me at robotics. Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

haha, probably not...


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