|By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 06:17 pm: Edit|
I've read posts before that debated whether the SAT I is an IQ test or not. I have an opinion, and I want your feedback. Personally, I think the math section only probe one's innate intelligence. I'm not saying this because my math score is lot higher than my verbal. I think verbal has a lot to deal with knowledge of vocabulary, which has nothing to do with intelligence. The reading does measure comprehension IQ (Please note that on my SAT, I came at the 25th percentile in reading, whereas 95th percentile on SC, and 85 percentile on analogies, so I'm not basing this on how I did).
|By Chillinnigerian (Chillinnigerian) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 06:30 pm: Edit|
So youre saying that without any algebra or geometry classes youd do well on the math section because of "innate intelligence"? Whatever helps you sleep well at night you pitiful, pitiful boy.
|By Ragnathor (Ragnathor) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit|
As far as tests go, I would say the SAT math does a fairly good job of measuring intelligence. Obviously with no algebra or geometry classes it probably wouldn't be a good measure of intelligence. That's why it's suggested both algebra and geometry be taken.
|By Davidn08 (Davidn08) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 06:55 pm: Edit|
SAT math does measure intelligence well... a lot of the questions dont depend at all on classes you've taken.
|By Chillinnigerian (Chillinnigerian) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 07:28 pm: Edit|
Obviously they dont ALL depend on the classes youve taken, but they depend on experience gained in a math class. Also, someone who is "intelligent" is usually just experienced in math. In 10th grade on the psat, I did somewhat poorly on the math section because I just disliked math (although i had already taken algebra 2 and geometry). But when I got to pre cal, I started liking math (or just hating all of my other classes much more) and took time to actually understand concepts & my score shot up from a 55 to a 73. I doubt that my "IQ" increased greatly.
|By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 11:17 pm: Edit|
A. Most people know algebra and geometry by their junior year.
B. The geometry formulas are listed in the beginning of each section.
C. Most people find their knowledge of vocabulary inhibiting their SAT verbal score.
|By Welshie (Welshie) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 11:53 pm: Edit|
I'll toss in my numbers--
1410 (680M,730V) with an IQ in the mid to upper 140s (tested as high as 169 and as low as 142 with the majority in the mid-upper 140s).
And I'm a "math person."
|By Godis (Godis) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 11:57 pm: Edit|
the sat is a good measure of intelligence if you take it completely cold. i think my iq is around 130-132, and my psat was a 1320, while my sat was 1500 (760 m 740 v).
|By Green01 (Green01) on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 12:10 am: Edit|
a lot of it depends on your test-taking ability too...if you worry a lot about the test you won't do well no matter how high your IQ is ..mine's between 130 and 140..(at one point i scored as high as 159)..and i still only made a 1260 (630m 630v)..so the SAT takes into account much more than just your 'IQ'
|By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:58 am: Edit|
Which IQ tests are you people talking about? Online ones are not too reliable, except for the intelligence test supported online by the International High IQ Society. Most of the IQs listed here seem to high, even for you top students (From what I've heard, Einstein's IQ was 160).
|By Mrbesch (Mrbesch) on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 03:43 pm: Edit|
I've never taken an IQ test.
This is how I view it. If you do badly on the SAT, that doesn't make you dumb- you can still be smart. If you do well on the SAT, it might not necessarily mean you're a genius, but it sure means you aren't dumb.
|By Chillinnigerian (Chillinnigerian) on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 04:44 pm: Edit|
Usually only people who do relatively well say it measures IQ so they can feel smug. I see it all the time.
|By Welshie (Welshie) on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 06:30 pm: Edit|
I've taken IQ tests through my high school and middle school. In addition to that, I've taken one from a psychologist and a handful from High IQ Society and a few on-line "Mensa-Approved" tests.
|By Tired_Student (Tired_Student) on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 06:32 pm: Edit|
I do think that the SAT is sort of an intelligence test because of its time restrictions. With the SAT, test takers are not given the time to expand on a question, they basically have to go with what their brain gives them. In addition, if one doesn't know algebra, s/he can easily just plug in numbers or use some sort of logic to take the test. Generally, the SAT is a test to see how well people can answer tricky questions in a limited time.
|By Dkm (Dkm) on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 05:39 pm: Edit|
ofcourse SAT is a test of intelligence..if it wasnt then y would they make us take it in the first place. they would just use GPA and rank if they were looking only for acedemic achievement
SAT is basically to find the people who are intelligent and who know the stuff they r supposed too know. tats y u have all the vocab and geo/alg questions. this is to weed out the smart ppl who dont put effort in class. SAT also weeds out really really hardworking ppl with high GPAs (i know many ppl with low SAT but near perfect GPA,caz they just basically work their a** off 24/7 but r just not intelligent)
i did get a low SAT score (for this board anyway) so u cant really say i am just saying that so i look "smart" or wateva
|By Conker (Conker) on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit|
Everyone (and I do mean, everyone) in my school has taken Algebra and Geometry by Junior year. The SAT Math, in my opinion, is similar to a watered down version of the AMC or AIME, which is almost unquestionably a test of reasoning ability.
The Verbal section relies much upon having an expansive vocabulary. This is true for both the Sentence Completions and Analogies. The Critical Reading is not so much a test of reasoning ability, as of analytical skills.
|By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 10:50 pm: Edit|
I teach SAT prep courses. With the exception of a very few students, the kids who do the best on these tests are the ones who have practiced these type of tests the most. I know kids who have been practicing for the SAT since middle school and were prepped for many other standardized tests even before that.
Of course, it is entirely possible that you can prep for IQ tests the same way.
Curiously, I have a child with a low average non verbal IQ (has been tested a few times ) and a very high math SAT and other math standardized tests scores.
|By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 11:17 pm: Edit|
I agree with Conker
|By Tootall (Tootall) on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit|
The SAt is sort of an intelligence test. DKM your logic is flawed. The reason they created the SAT wasn't to see if kids know their stuff, it was created to compare them. My best friend only got a 700 math on the SAT. However, he qualified for USAMO. I got an 800 math in 8th grade. Am i smarter than he is? Of course not. The SAT math is an average math test, most people do bad because they're too careless or get confused by the tricky wording. I agree with the 4.0's who do bad at the SAT. They me off too. We don't weight GPA's, so people who take underwater basket weaving get the same rank as myself and others who load up on AP's.
|By Metra (Metra) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 12:59 pm: Edit|
Although SAT's and math tests do measure intelligence, its not an accurate measurement. The reason for this is the same reason why many here dont think the verbal part of the SAT measures intelligence - memory.
Math does need memory. Many students claim you cannot study for math because there arent any vocab words or dates you have to memorize. But you can, and you do this by solving problems. Through problem solving, people gain knowledge into how to quickly solve the problem and future problems like it. Not much of this knowledge is needed for the SAT and, therefore, after junior high school most kids have enough experience in math to do wel on the SAT. All that is needed to score perfect is to open a SAT book and familarize (memorize) yourself with the type of problems. More memory is needed for AIME, etc. Therefore, if a whole school takes the AIME, most will not do well, even if they are in the high classes. Is it because they are not intelligent or because they are not familiar with the problems and the various methods that are needed to solve the problems?
Obviously, its both. IMO, a good measurement of intelligence would be a test that measure how quickly a person is able to learn something new by seeing how fast and well he can apply it. For example, students would be given a 5-10 booklet intro on a certain branch of math. Then there would be a timed problem set. The questions range from ones that are very straightforward to others that require the ability to "look outside the box" and adapt the info in the booklet to solving the problems. Those who are most intelligent will be able to answer most questions in the least amount of time because they were able to learn most quickly. The SAT and other math tests cannot be valid IQ tests because people who take them have too much previous experience with the subjects.
|By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 02:06 pm: Edit|
I think everybody who can score in the 700s cold cannot use the SAT math as a valid evaluator of IQ-for that test, they are all just as intelligent.
|By Jessetfan (Jessetfan) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit|
I would say that SATs are probably some sort of measure of intelligence, but how well you do on them also has to do with how interested you are in what you study. I've taken the SATs twice and my second score was 1450 (700M, 750V). I would also say that IQ tests don't measure intelligence with extreme accuracy. I took the IQ test for Mensa (I got in), and because of some study of Latin I knew what some words meant. Intelligence is hard to measure because it can be expressed in so many ways. I don't believe that any test can measure intelligence with complete accuracy.
|By Royalchk (Royalchk) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 11:44 pm: Edit|
Benzinspeicher, it suits my purposes to agree .
Who's smarter, the kid with the 800 math SAT or the kid with the 780 who was fiddling about with numbers when he was 13 and discovered (and proved) what he later found out to be Gauss's quadratic reciprocity law?
|By Thermodude (Thermodude) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 01:50 am: Edit|
Only one question can make a difference between a 800 and 770 sometimes on the SAT I math. In my opinion....that differnece of one question appears to be due to luck/carelessness. My opinion is that SAT I math is accurate for measuring scores under 730....but scores over 730+ vary based many times on luck/carelessness. It appears that people who retake SAT's don't usually get a perfect math multiple times....a friend of mine went from a perfect 800 to a 740 (at least his verbal score improved.)
|By Dkm (Dkm) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 05:21 am: Edit|
u cant compare ppl with 770 and 800...as mentioned once u get over 700...there is no way of sperating ppl caz the mistakes can just be silly ones. but there is diffrence between and person with a 600 and 700. and studying will not improve ur score by a lot... know people who have studied like hell since 10th grade but still only went up like 100 points. one guy went from 900 to 1030 after 3 years..means that most ppl cant reach 1400 no matter how hard they try
|By Godilali (Godilali) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 04:40 pm: Edit|
SAT does not seem to measure IQ. I scored in the 99.9th percentile (150+) on an IQ test and easily qualified for Mensa, but I only got a 1410 on the SAT's.
|By Benzinspeicher (Benzinspeicher) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 05:17 pm: Edit|
guys, i said the math does, and a 1410, while only at 97th percentile among college bound seniors, is much higher among the general population.
|By Justice (Justice) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 05:23 pm: Edit|
The SAT was based directly off of IQ tests. How can you say that they are not similar? Obviously there's heavy correlation and individual anomalies don't change that.
|By Wulfffish (Wulfffish) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 06:32 pm: Edit|
THis is an interesting link concerning this thread.
By the way - my IQ and scores line up very well with this table, but that may just be me.
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