Does Collegeboard deserve to be around?





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Discus: SAT/ACT Tests and Test Preparation: April 2004 Archive: Does Collegeboard deserve to be around?
By Socalnick (Socalnick) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 08:50 pm: Edit

How can an entire business work on makeing students miserable. How much would you pay your teacher to pay a test? Probably nothing. Yet to take an ap test it costs $82. It's insane. Who agrees or disagrees with me?

By Sticksandstones (Sticksandstones) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

yeah, its pretty stupid how how they make us pay so much for AP tests, SAT tests, SAT 2 tests and whatever the hell, and they get rich from it, while we keep retaking it to get better grades.
OK
Crazy IDEA: nobody takes collegeboard tests for 2 years and we will close Collegeboard down, and then ETS, the oppressors off all of us younguns.take the ACT

yeah, yeah, i can already hear the gasps of terror from you guyz. the thought just helps me sleep well at night

By Forsakn4 (Forsakn4) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

unfornately, its a business thats sole concern is on making money and nothin else

By Socalnick (Socalnick) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

the problem with that is the sat is cemented into the foundation of colleges. Unless the movement appears in the colleges them seilfs. Students can do nothing about this.

By Averagemathgeek (Averagemathgeek) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Rather than attack the College Board, why don't you question ETS? Afterall, ETS makes the SATs, APs, and so on. ETS must also have control over the pricing to an extent. TCB is a "not-for-profit" company, unless I am mistaken. What if TCB is a truly honest company that does want to assist students and college? What if the prices are high due to the pricing that ETS offers TCB for the tests?

In addition, the College Board does not "work on making students miserable." The misery of the students is from three sources: the student, the colleges, and possibly parents. The College Board is not making your life stressful.

Keep in mind that these are just possible truths. I believe we should find evidence to corroborate these theories before condemning anyone.

By Romastaflex (Romastaflex) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 03:23 pm: Edit

ETS makes revenues of $600 million a year. just a fact. there basically the only ones around to administer standardized tests. now how's that for a monopoly.

By Averagemathgeek (Averagemathgeek) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Here are some interesting sites:
http://www.guidestar.org/controller/searchResults.gs?action_gsReport=1&npoId=556362
http://www.guidestar.org/controller/searchResults.gs?action_gsReport=1&npoId=446434
http://www.fairtest.org/examarts/Fall%2001/Univ%20Benificiaries.html

Maybe TCB isn't "not-for-profit" as they claim.

By Songster87 (Songster87) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Their revenue and expenses are almost exactly even according to the links you sent... which is implying that they are indeed completely non-profit.

And you do need someone very intelligent, knowledgeable, and experienced to head these organizations. And yes, they have to get paid. But if you notice, the president of these giga-multi-billion NON-profit organizations like ETS get paid next to nilch. An equivalent president at a FOR-profit organization would easily make tenfold as much. And the stats they cite are ludicrous..."Oh, there's a whole DOZEN people who make six figure salaries in the organization! Corruption! Corruption!" etc. etc.

Lastly, standardized tests are a benchmark. If there were no standardized tests, you would have too many not-so-bright 4.0 students from schools with grade-inflation flunking out of the best colleges.

If you really hate tests, then just stop school. After all, school is just about tests. Grow your hair out and be a hippie instead of being a hypocrite by bashing ETS's validity while simultaneously hoping for a higher SAT score.

By Averagemathgeek (Averagemathgeek) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 05:05 pm: Edit

I do agree with Songster87. We should not solely consider revenue when we are interested in profit. However, it is the responsibility of the consumers to question the practices of large companies.

When I said "Maybe TCB..." in my second post, I was referring to the assets of the company. As the site shows, TCB has over $180 million dollars in assets. I understand that amount is not much compared to for profit companies of similar revenue; however, it is still a large sum.

By Aim78 (Aim78) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 10:21 pm: Edit

They suck. Whether "they" is TCB or ETS, they suck. Students that want to go to college have no choice but to fork over hundreds of dollars to them, which is absolutely ridiculous. Unfortunately, as it stands, we have no other choice.

By Philntex (Philntex) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Preach on! We had a big debate about this at our school the other day when we received our AP financial reports, and we all agreed it was total BS. I'm definitely not excited about having to first dig up and then hand over over 100 bucks to College Board just to take some freakin' tests.

By Averagemathgeek (Averagemathgeek) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 11:14 pm: Edit

At my school (and I believe all the schools in Florida), we do not have to pay for any AP exams even if we are not taking the class. I recommend to people who have to pay to take AP tests to write their representative (best bet is someone in the state legislature) and see if you can get the state to start paying for these tests.

By Mattman (Mattman) on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 03:57 am: Edit

At my school all students who pass the AP exams with a 3 or higher receive a check for a full refund. I've passed four already and have chance to take four more this year, but am only planning on three. Even if I pass only two, with a single summer course I can graduate college in three years, saving tens of thousands of dollars.

APs are well worth it if you work hard and study. For exaggeration, if you paid $100 for 10 tests and passed all then you could save anywhere from a few thousand to $40,000 by graduating early a full year and entering with sophomore standing. The costs are relative...it will definitely look like a good deal once you look at how expensive colleges are now.

By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 04:06 am: Edit

AP tests are costing me around $400 this year. Not cool.

By Succor101 (Succor101) on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 06:35 pm: Edit

ummm...it you hate CB/ETS, then you should take ACT...

By Gameguy56 (Gameguy56) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

Other countries get along fine without a "college board" Why is our intelligence judged on 3 hours of testing?

By Gameguy56 (Gameguy56) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

Other countries get along fine without a "college board" Why is our intelligence judged on 3 hours of testing?

By Songster87 (Songster87) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Gameguy, you're obviously rather ignorant to the admissions process of many other countries. For the top schools in highly competitive and academic countries like China, Japan, and India, you get to take exactly ONE test.

Your grades don't matter, your character doesn't matter, your essay, your interview...none of it matters. You get to take a giant SUPER test once in your life. You fail it, you ruin your life forever... No retakes, no take-backs...1000x more suicides than even at MIT.

Quit whining y'all and go study if you think the SAT is "underjudging you" (although it is more likely that you have an inflated self-ego...)

By Songster87 (Songster87) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Also, $80 per test is not expensive.

First, only very few kids take it every year (comapred to say, the SAT) so the cost is divided among fewer kids. Also, every test is released so each year has to be original.

Second, they're a bitch to grade. They have to fly in qualified teachers and pay them to grade the free-response sections by the hour.

College Board isn't "ripping you off" if you haven't noticed. The money goes to pay already underpaid people to write and grade very elaborate exams. If you were really against college board, you would boycott it. But of course, seems like rather than actual reason, you all are just sore about spending a couple hundred dollars (even though your computer cost about 6x as much, and your college tuition will cost about 800x as much, and who knows how much you've spent on hookers and the such).

By Robert456 (Robert456) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 07:24 pm: Edit

Songster, Edited! First of all, what everyone is trying to convey is that the ETS or whoever effects our chances at college, even though studying can only help so much. The college board doesn't measure what we know, it measures your abilities to shade in bubbles. What the hell is dandy:foppish anyways? Oh wow, now I must be really smart if I can do that analogy...yeah right. Now college board is making a writing test to avoid scrutiny, but how hard is it to BS an essay?

Anyways, I am being ripped off, because collegeboard made the AP exams where I look like a slacker if I don't take them. Try applying to a competitive school without them...So basically, I get forced into these classes, forced to pay 90 bucks for an exam (210 dollars b/c I am taking 3), and now my life is completely standardized. If collegeboard is trying to give everyone so much opportunity, then why do they curve the AP tests? What if everyone understands the material? That is taking money away from people who work hard and deserve college credit.

Of course I want to do well on these tests, otherwise I will be affected in the college admissions process. I do not whine incessantly, I just think think that collegeboard lowers others' self-esteem and self value by placing rankings and percintiles over their heads. Also, I live in the United States, and even though Japan might be great and everything, I don't live there. Last time I checked, the United States was supposed to be a place that encouraged free thinking and independence. Going and taking those tests makes me feel like a cow,grazing the halls with my number two pencils at hand, and taking emphasis away from what is truly important in life. I am proud of my American roots and the diversity that comes with it. Yet, my opportunities are being cut short because these rich kids in nice prep schools have PR tutors while my next door neighbor is helping me for 20 dollars an hour. The collegeboard is out to make money and I hate it and what it represents.

Keep it civil, Robert!
Trinity

By Wrathofgod64 (Wrathofgod64) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 07:26 pm: Edit

i agree with songster

for example, in india there are very prestigious technical institutions called IIT (Indian Institute of Technology). A very rigorous and intensive exam is required in order to gain admission into any one of these universities, and that's all there is. In China, if you don't pass the entrance exams, kids spend the rest of the year studying for the same exam.

By Hertish (Hertish) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 07:48 pm: Edit

songster..

GRADES DO MATTER IN THOSE COUNTRIES

By Liquidfox (Liquidfox) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 08:11 pm: Edit

I agree with Songster. Just try to imagine all the costs associated with the test. First, qualified educators have to create it, then it has to be printed, then it has to be transported to the students, then it is transported back, then qualified educators have to read and grade it and lastly grades have to be distributed. PLUS there is the immense costs for securing the test so that YOU the honest students will not be disadvantaged. (Believe we they have to take alot of measures to insure that nobody reads it beforehand.)

By Just_Forget_Me (Just_Forget_Me) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I think there are two really separate issues here:

1. Should there be a national, standardized test for college admissions? And if yes, is the SAT a good test for this?

and

2. Should the college board be a non-profit organization? And if yes, how "non-profit" should it be?

#1 is a giant messy issue I'm not going to get into. As for #2 I think it really starts to depend on your economic beliefs. Some might argue that the college board should be a for-profit company, which would allow more competition. Others might say that the standardized test should be administered by the government, so that there is more regulation and less financial pressure.

Personally, I don't mind the system the way it is. HOWEVER, I don't like the gobs of advertising on collegeboard.com. I shouldn't be bombarded with offers to buy books/prep CDs when I register for the SAT/check my score. Besides, didn't the college board used to claim that studying didn't help SAT scores?

The price on AP tests isn't so bad compared to an actual college credit. Does the college board offer free/reduced price tests (my school requires + pays for them)?

By Aim78 (Aim78) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

I'm for standardized testing, but not for the ridiculous prices they set. And there should be MORE options. ACT is fine and dandy, but what about SAT II's? Most colleges require those. And AP's? If you want to be a stellar student and take tons of AP's, you'll end up paying almost $1,000 just for those tests. There's no other choice.

By Wt8008 (Wt8008) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 08:27 pm: Edit

I remember the UCs once wanted to remove the SAT from being used from admissions and they responded by changing the SATs. They really want the money from the tests and would likely fight any effort to remove or change it. With one test out the door, I think something else would just come in to fill the hole.

By Aim78 (Aim78) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Millions of buyers and just one seller. It's such a monopoly.

By Smartdude (Smartdude) on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 09:52 am: Edit

There's ACT too. That's two companies. In my dictionary, that's not a monopoly.

By Socalnick (Socalnick) on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 04:36 pm: Edit

I beleive it is considered a monoply when you have 52% of the market

By Ndbisme5 (Ndbisme5) on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I will kill the beast. Trust me. When I'm in government I will do my best to make a government-run testing service to put the college board out of bidness. I'm not kidding. I can't let a grudge go with them.


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