| By mac on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 04:19 pm: Edit |
Is anyone familiar with In-A-Flash cards? I received an offer in the mail for these flash cards.
| By incognito on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 04:33 pm: Edit |
Mac, if you are talking about SAT vocab, and you are really ambitious, then the best list out there is probably Barron's 3500 word list (just in case you decide to ditch the card idea). Whetever happens, good luck on the test.
| By fsdalk on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 05:04 pm: Edit |
Barrons sucks. It is boring, bland, tiring, and it is a lot harder to remember than any other prep. Books that use mneumonics are the best. Barrons is just an "index" of past SAT words.
| By mac on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 01:59 pm: Edit |
fsdalk you wrote "Books that use mneumonics are the best". Could you please provide an example?
| By ABC on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 02:49 pm: Edit |
I like mneumonic books best, but they are not as comprehensive. I have learned maybe 800+ words with those books but not 3,500. Either way, those are 800 words that was EASY to learn and to remember.
Mac: Some good books are "Vocabulary Cartoons and Vocabulary Cartoons II", the vocab review in UP YOUR SCORE, and "Princeton Review: Word Smart Illustrated". I honestly think these are ESSENTIAL in the process of building a better vocab. Good luck!
| By incognito on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 03:00 pm: Edit |
Mac, I think that it really comes down to a question of how well you want to do. I mean lke, what are your standards. I wanted to do so well, that i spent every day of my summer vacation memorizing words from Barrnos list for like, for about 30 minutes a day. Now when I take SATs, i rarely get ANY scentence completions wrong, and on average, I get one (occasionally 2) analogies wrong. It pays off, but i can understand it if you didnt want to memorize the 3500 word list. You should check out Kaplan (2200 words) or "Hot Words for the SAT" (also made by barrons, but a shorter list of perhaps 800 or so words). The bottom line is this: the bigger the list, the higher the chances that you will do very well on Scent Comps and Analogies. You have to make a compromise
| By satprep on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 05:51 pm: Edit |
incognito, are u a senior now?
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:01 pm: Edit |
yes, why do you ask?
| By satprep on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:09 pm: Edit |
because you act like u know everything, about this stuff.
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:20 pm: Edit |
well, to be honest, i have been prepping since the middle of 10th grade. I brought my score up from a 1080 to a 1530. I also read practically every prep book in Barnes & Noble. I have been doing long term stratagies. I have read literally like 50 articles or so. I have memorized 42,000 words from different lists (42,000 is the total), and the only reason I'm not going to college next year is becasue I'm striving for a 1600 on my SATs.
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:24 pm: Edit |
Holy Jesus! 1080 to 1530? Have you ever used "Gruber's Complete Prep for the SAT"? Thats what I'm using and it seems quite helpful. More questions: isnt 42000 words more than enough? Also, if I keep doing critical reading passages, would that be a good alternative to improving my score rather than reading books, magazines, etc? Thanks.
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 06:38 pm: Edit |
yes
you mean "Gary R. Gruber, PhD" his math section is REALLY GOOD, verbal w/Gruber, however is weak, despite the fact that his 3400 word list is good. Jason, I have the eighth edition, not the ninth like you probably do (because i started preping such a long time ago!)
And 42000 words is not EVEN ENOUGH if you have spent like 3 years and are DESPERATE for a 1600.
And Jason, as for you q about reading passages, its not a good idea for a simple reason...
there arent even enough passages out there. You could probably wright a maximum of about 2 whole books w/all that are out there. I've read about 25 books since i started prepping. Stick with the books for building your reading skills Stick w/the passages for practice
good luck
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:00 pm: Edit |
Cool. Thanks. What are good verbal books to use then? Also, does it matter what type of material to read? I observed that most of the critical reading passages are arts and humanities. If I read mostly arts and humanities articles, would that help?
If you got a 1530, what part did you screw up on (hence the 1530)? With that much vocab skills, I am guessing you missed none or VERY few analogies and sentece comps.
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:14 pm: Edit |
Well, I got an 800M/730V. I got all the scent comps right, 1 analogy wrong, and a few crit reading wrong. As for the field of reading, it doesn really matter TOO much. What matter is that the writing STYLE and DIFFICULTY is like that seen on the SAT. My favorite verbal book is Barrons. Barrons has a good reading list, from fiction to humanities to ethnic. Jason, here's a list of some publications that i've read, along w/some pros and cons for each.
Barrons:
pros: the math preparation in this book is pretty good. On a scale from a 1 to 10, I'd give it an 8.5. The verbal section of this book is its strong area. The vocab list provided in this book is the most thorough one I have ever seen on the market. The 3500 word list will help you dramatically bring up your scentence completion and analogy score (but it will only help if you have the time, patience, and will power to memorize the list). Also, each word comes with a sample scentence, as well as whether or not the word has other useful forms to know (adj, noun, verb, etc.). However, the best part about this book is in the Critical reading. Unlike any other book on the market (except for perhaps 2 or 3 that i never found), it stresses LONG TERM prep stratagies for doing well on the Crit Reading. For example, it tells you that doing a lot of reading outside of school (like novels, non-fiction, ethnic, history, science, etc.) can help you better understand a reading passage on the SAT. And it does. The College Board itself says that reading newspapers and books is the best way to prepare for Critical Reading. Reading a lot helps. Barely any other book does that. Instead, other books just give you short term "tactics" for critical reading that just are not as effective. Aside from just telling you to read "college level reading material", it provides you with an extensive list of books that you can consider reading. I have read several of them, and about half of them are a lot like the literature seen on the SAT. Fantastic advice.
Cons: The practice tests (there are 7) are horrible. They are EXTREMELY difficult. They style of the questions in Barrons practice tests reflect the lack of knowledge that the Barrons ppl actually have of the real test. Do not take the practice test in this book. Some of the answers make no sense. Also, aside from doing reading and memorizing vocab words, this book does not give you too many (short term) hints or tactics as to how to effectively answer questions on the verbal section.
Kaplan:
Pros: Great word list, although it could be much longer. The definitions of the wordsa are accurate and easy to understand. They give you a pretty extensive list of SHORT TERM tactics for answering verbal qs. It also has a whole section dedicated to dealing w/Test Stress.
Cons: They provide you with very little advice on math. There is so much more they could have done to help you on the math section. Also, in Kaplan, the practice tests tend to be easier then the real SAT I. Also, unlike Barrons, Kaplan never even mentions LONG TERM prep for the verbal section.
Grubers:
Pros: This book probably has the best Math prep section on the market. He provides you with extensive Math review and tactics. The word list is very extensive (3400 words long)
Cons: on the practice tests, the math section has questions that are MUCH harder then math questions on the real SAT I. The vocab list, although very extensive, has poor definitions for each word, and sometimes the definitions arent even accurate.
Princeton Review
--I am unfamiliar w/PR--
However, I always hear good things about it.
REA VEBAL WORKBOOK
Pros: not many pros
Cons: list is too long. Do not get the REA Verbal Work Book.
Christie, because different books are good for different reasons, if you are a really dedicated student, i would recomend using more then one prep book. You couldnt go wrong with a Barrons and a Grubers. Good luck, and dont hesitate to ask questions.
hope it helps
-incognito
| By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:19 pm: Edit |
Hey incognito, if my friends and I start the business we've always dreamed about, I'll be sure to hire you as one of our top employees. We could use an insanely hard worker like you;)
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:25 pm: Edit |
wow thanks a lot. More questions (sorry):
1. Do you (specifically) read the whole critical reading passage?
2. How do you avoid making stupid mistakes on the math section? Like for me, sometimes I read the question wrong or make a minor mistake in my calculations and when I look back at it, I hit myself in the head. You would have to be flawless.
Thanks again for everything.
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:36 pm: Edit |
1st of all, Jason, before i start, i just want you to know that Crit reading is my weak area. I'm really not good at it at all, so i dont know how valuable my advice would be on reading.
Yes, i do always read the WHOLE passage. Some prep ppl tell you to "skim" it, even if you miss some words here and there. But one word can make all the difference (if you dont believe me on this, just check out question 21 of section 3 on the Saturday, Novermber 1995 test in 10 Real SATs).
On math, you really do have to flawless for an 800. Although you can sometimes get one wrong and still get the 800, i sometimes run into question I dont even understand. So, i guess you have to practice a lot to stop making careless errors.
| By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:42 pm: Edit |
incognito, have you done your SAT II's yet? In some places they are more important than SAT I, and I think you should focus your energy on them (it is easier to get perfect too).
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 07:45 pm: Edit |
Hmm...
to be completely honest w/you Sab, I have never only take one SAT II (bio) in ninth grade. I got 590 on it, however. Other than that, no, because the SAT I is so important to me. After being convinced that it measures innate intelligence (like IQ), i realized how insecure i'd be if i could not get a 1600 on the SAT. I will, however, EVENTALLY take SAT IIs, but only after i get my 1600.
| By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:00 pm: Edit |
The difference between your 1600 and 1530 is miniscule. It might even work against you if the colleges like to reject 1600's because of statistics (heh). And you shouldn't think that you are inferior to someone because they got a 1600, and you didn't. How many times have you taken the SAT. If it is more than three, doesn't it look obsessive to the universities?
I think that three or more 800's on the SAT II's will serve you better. At least you could theoretically use some (some..) of the SAT science subject matter in a future career. The level of SAT math and verbal language is sort of a given. If you get 800 on Math, it doesn't really predict how you will handle calculus and other advanced math. I admit the extra vocab and reading skills could be usefull for writing college papers and essays.
I would funnel your energy into some advanced AP courses. That is what I would have done if I had the chance. But my school (in Canada) did not have any available until this year. Luckily, we do have a Calculus course, at least=/
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:02 pm: Edit |
thanx for the advice, Sab. I'll think about it.
By the way, my friend is going to McGill next year
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:03 pm: Edit |
Incognito, you are God.
1. Have you taken any SAT II's/AP tests? I am guessing that you have.
2. How much did you study for the SAT over the summer?
3. What analogy question did you miss if you remember?
4. Have you written your college application essay yet?
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:13 pm: Edit |
1. I got a 4 on my AP US HISTORY test. I'm currently taknig AP FRENCH and AP ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES.
2. I studies words for maybe about 2 hrs a day. I read for about maybe 3 to 4 hrs a day. I spent about only 15 minutes on Math per day for about a month.
3. As for the analogy, here's the question:
SORT:CRITERION::
A) shuffle:order
b) train:competence
c) rank:value
d) divide:quantity
e) poll:opinion
try to figure it out w/o a dictionary. Not easy in my opinion.
4. No, i have not written my colleg application essay, because I am not going to college next year.
Some Stats:
GPA: 94.113
AP: US Hist: 4
SAT I: CURRENTLY a 1530
I'm NOT in NHS, Westmunc, sports, clubs, ECs, or any of that other stuff. No community service. No music program. Not much other than just grades
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:21 pm: Edit |
Is the answer to that analogy E? That is a hard one.
I got a high GPA too but no extra curriculers either.
1. For schoolwork in general, are you one of those people who doesnt study at all and gets A's, studies A LOT and get A's, or studies A LOT and doesnt get A's?
2. And this was 2 summers you had to study right? Darn. I only have one summer.
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:23 pm: Edit |
No the answer is not E. I'm not going to give the answer until other ppl try
I study A LOT and get 100s, whatever that means...
As for your summer...you can always do what i do, dont go to college the yr after you graduate. That will give you an extra summer
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:28 pm: Edit |
I study a lot too but dont get 100's. How do you study? Do you just reread the textbook and notes for tests?
Also, you are postponing college solely to increase your SAT score right?
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:33 pm: Edit |
out of curiousity, what grade are you in? I mean, like, dont base all your stuff around me. I'm just telling you what i do, and i think it would work for many.
How do i study? it depends on the subject. My way of studying may not be yours. I pay attention in math, and for history and science, I read the text carefully, take detailed notes, and study them.
Yes, i'm postponing colleges due to the SAT. I know it's sad...but true
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:35 pm: Edit |
I am a junior (11th). What school do you plan on going to? A 1530 is an awesome score.
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:38 pm: Edit |
To be honest, I havent even begun to think about schools. All my friends are going off to school next year, and i have never even started researchin schools. My SAT scores mean much more to me then whether or not i can get into a good school. The SAT, to me, is more than a college admissions test...sadly...somehow...it has almost become my life i guess.
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:53 pm: Edit |
what do your parents think about it?
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:54 pm: Edit |
my parents never went to college. They come from a 3rd world country from which they graduated high school @ the age of 14...so they really dont know what the norm in this country is. My parents dont care much. My father is never home, and my mom thinks its either normal, or just diligent in a healthy way (which its not really...)
| By Callmecollege (Callmecollege) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:55 pm: Edit |
analogy answer is c
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:00 pm: Edit |
So once you finish your senior year, youre just going to stay home all day studying for the SAT?
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:00 pm: Edit |
Correct Callmecollege!!
How did you get it???
| By hey on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:01 pm: Edit |
incognito...I am truly concerned about you. It seems that you are completely obsesed about the SATI. You are putting your life on hold just to improve your score. Also, you apparently don't want a 1600 for any specific reason. Can you explain your motivation to me?
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:01 pm: Edit |
Well, i really dont know, Jason. Not all day. Maybe like 3 hrs a day or something. I want to get a job.
...but Callmecollege, how did you get that analogy??
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit |
Hey,
my motive: well, somehow i have come to believe that the SAT I measures innate intelligence (take a look @ my forum called "Is the SAT an IQ test". I have studied so much, that i think that if i dont get a 1600, it means i'm an idiot. I know. i know. I'm very insecure. I'll admit it now. But i feal that doing so much prep, and NOT getting the 1600 makes me an idiot, and that's the last thing i want.
| By olive oil on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:05 pm: Edit |
incognito- is the answer to the analogy c?
| By olive oil on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:06 pm: Edit |
o sry~ didnt see the post
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:07 pm: Edit |
olive oil,..
how did you get that analogy??
Please dont just blow me off like Callmecollege did...i just want an answer.
| By olive oil on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:08 pm: Edit |
you SORT something based on CRITERION, you RANK something based on VALUE
| By olive oil on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:09 pm: Edit |
thats just what i thought
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:10 pm: Edit |
You can DIVIDE something based on the original QUANTITY, however...
| By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:11 pm: Edit |
You can take the SAT in college if you want man=/
| By Callmecollege (Callmecollege) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:15 pm: Edit |
you sort things by their criteron, you rank things by their value, or at least thats what i thought... and i suck at verbal too...
| By olive oil on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:31 pm: Edit |
you dont DIVIDE things by the original QUANTITY, but by a new number
what do i know? im not even in high school yet ;-)
| By hey on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:02 pm: Edit |
incognito, what country are you from. If I were you I would go to college and continue studying for the SAT there.
Also, if you study for the SAT as much as you do, how can you believe that it is testing innate inteligence.
I think that the SAT does not test inteligence at all. Mostly it just tests your multiple choice, think very quickly test taking skills
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:05 pm: Edit |
Olive oil, dont get fresh w/me. you can DIVIDE THINGS AND THE RESULT WOULD HAVE A BASIS ON THE ORIGINAL VALUE!!! ALSO, IF YOUR NOT IN HIGH SCHOOL YET, GO TO THE NIKALODEON MESSAGE BOARD OR SOMETHING!!
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:08 pm: Edit |
Sab, some have told me that i can take the SAT in college, but...
...why stick w/my score now if i can get a 1600 later. I could earn a scholarship and save money or something, i guess.
| By Sabzevarian (Sabzevarian) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:17 pm: Edit |
You don't need 1600 for a scholarship. You don't even need good SAT's or grades for a lot of financial aid.
Worse comes to worse, If you applied to a Canadian university, you could probably get a scholarship (as few people applying from the US have over 1500). And the education would probably cost the same as a community college in US dollars (even before the scholarship).
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:21 pm: Edit |
More questions (to incognito):
1. Have you done all the practice tests in every book you used?
2. If so, have you improved with each test?
3. Was "10 Real Sats" helpful?
4. If you had to choose 2 best SAT prep books, would it be Gruber's and Barron's Verbal?
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit |
Well, either way it doesn’t matter to me, because I am at a state right now where i don’t care about anything but this f*cking test. In June this year i permanently lost nerves in my right hand, and you know what, I don’t give a f*ck, because i all i care about is this dreadful test that's taking up hours of my day. When i come home from school, i turn on this piece of sh*t computer, look at this site, read about ppl getting 1550s and 1600s by reading a 150 page Princeton Review book, and then open up my vocab lists.
| By jamu86 on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:34 pm: Edit |
Incognito...seriously...are you lying?????? It seems like you leading poor Jason onto thinking your this brilliant genius, and then all your focused on are the SAT's. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...I know your motivation is not to get into college but to live up to your 1600 intelligence expectation. BUT CALM DOWN MAN, anything above a 1500 is luck. And I think living a balanced life is what REALLY SHOWS INTELLIGENCE!!!!!!!
--ummmm Good look to you and your 1600 quest! =\
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:39 pm: Edit |
Jason,
1) No, I have not; but not because i havent had the time or effort. I NEVER do practice tests in anything but "10 Real SATs". I've done 6 in there so far (hence the analogy above). I want to save the four until the before i take another real test.
2) My scores on the test have improved after memorizing vocab and doing some reading and math concept review. W/o such prep, no, my score has not really improved
3) "10 Real SATs" is helpful, but ONLY because of its practice tests (after all, you have to know what to expect when you walk into the test room). Everybody who takes the SAT should practice w/"10 Real SATs".
4) Yes, my favorite books are Barrons (for the verbal) and Grubers (for the Math). PR is one of the few books I have never read. Jason, take a look at the list i provided above for publications (its like the 14th message on this message board)...
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:43 pm: Edit |
jamu... i am not lying. I dont care if you dont believe me. I come to this message forum to give and receive advice, not for a laugh!
By the way, Jamu, I am clearly not a brilliant genious if i spend 3 yrs preping for an SAT and dont get a 1600! I said that above. I
thanks for the "good luck" there jamu. I'll need it.
As for you, Jason, beleive me, I am NOT a genious. Do I work hard, yes. Do i know a lot, i think so, but it's debatable. Am i a genious, NO!
If you want to mail me:
i_needsathelp@yahoo.com
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:46 pm: Edit |
As for you, seek help loser,
I dont deny that I'm a loser, but i can tell you one thing...
Anybody (like yourself here) who puts down a spends time putting down a loser shurely doesnt represent him/herself in the best light. I'm affraid I am thus not the only loser here...
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit |
...and by the way, "seek help loser"...calling somebody a psycho and a fukin loser doesnt help much. That last scentence w/o the last word there would have been enough, thanx...
| By seek it bitch on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:53 pm: Edit |
incognito.. for someone that has studied all of what you have... your grammar if pathetic.
shurely=surely
affraid=afraid
ure grammar is pathetic as well. maybe all this studying is getting to your head.
| By incognito on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:59 pm: Edit |
thanx seek it bitch...
...but unlike you, i realize i am writing to high schoolers on a message board here.
Its not like I'm taking a test or something. I'm typing really fast because i have to start writing a report soon, so SORRY about these little errors here and there, as long as you can understand, that's all that matters.
"seek it bithc", I dont know what your f*cking problem is. I just gave Jason (and many others reading the message board) some very useful and valuable advice. It could help you. If not, just take your hostility off the message board and stop w/all this sh*t
| By mikec on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:04 am: Edit |
incognito... wut is up.. this is mike.. i just sent you an email please check it out... i really need help and going to you in my opinion is expert advice. take a quick look at it ok?
please respond on this board so i can see it.
| By behappy on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:16 am: Edit |
incognito I think your dedication is wonderful, but are you happy with your life?
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:33 am: Edit |
Mike, I read your email
WOW Mike, you have some ambition my friend.
You get an av time of 6 secnds per analogy? thats really good. My av time for those is like 10-15 seconds. Considering the fact that you spend such little time on them, it surprises me that Crit readning gets you, because you would have more time..
...unfortunately, like you, Crit reading is my weak area. As for "quick tricks" my friend, unfortunately, they're not the key (although they can help). They key to doing well is developing your reading skills. Read really complex literature. Here are a few of my favorite books:
1) "An Anthropologist Looks At History" (by A. L. Kroeber)
2) "On Moral Fiction" (by John Gardner)
3) "Whitehead's American Essays in Social Philosophy" (edited by A H. Johnson)
4) "The Identity of Man" (by Borowski)
5) "Contemplating Music" (by Joseph Kerman)
6) "An Invitation to Sociology: A Humanistic Perspective" (by Peter L. Berger).
These are just a few examples. According to many (and the arguement is valid), by reading complex "college level" literature like the books listed above, you hone and develop you critical reading skills. Force yourself to concentrate and and read with ease and relative speed. It's like PRACTICING A REAL SAT. That's the part i love about it. It's a long term method, not a quick fix to the problem, but it is pretty effective. If you have the summer to read, my question is, WHY NOT? As for the quick fixes that you did ask for, they're all in the books. They're also all pretty simple. There is not magic spell that will instantly bring your Crit Reading Score up. If there was, i surely wouldnt be on the test. My score increase took years of work, Mike. It took A LOT OF WORK, and i am still working on it. That 1530 took a lot of work. I used many books. If you want to take a look at them, view the 14th message i wrote on this message board. As for your score increase, the college board says that you develop these test taking skills naturally over the years, so your score should increase. if you do everything right (and put the right amount of time into it), you can get a 1500+!
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:35 am: Edit |
I agree. Incognito is really helpful. Although he may not be a genius, he is very experienced when it comes to the SAT.
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:35 am: Edit |
behappy, right now, i am not very happy w/my life at all. However, I am very greatful that out of all the ppl in the world, i am definately in the top 10% in terms of my luck (after all, I am living in the US!) Other ppl have it worse then me. I have psychological problems, but at least i'm not dying of AIDS or anything, so i cant complain.
| By behappy on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:43 am: Edit |
Do you have anyone who you can talk to? I understand your plight--your parents (as I read earlier) did not finish highschool and so you want to prove to the people that think you are stupid that you are not dumb by getting a perfect score on the SAT. When I was younger I was called stupid by my peers and I have been trying to prove them wrong, so I think I understand where your coming from.
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:46 am: Edit |
wow, behappy, you sound concearned. Dont be. I'm fine. Everybody has these weird little obessions. Mine just happens to be the SAT. I do have friends, but I only speak w/them on fridays. Afterall, other then SAT work, I get a lot of work from school as well.
| By mikec on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:47 am: Edit |
INCOGNITO...i admire a person who sets a goal and is resilient after a defeat(your 1530 which in my perspective is by no means a defeat) if you want to get the 1600, hey, go for it man... we are all pulling for you. Im sure that with all the effort you put in... god will give you the ability to answer every single question the next time you take it.. if you dont get the 1600 tho, which in my opinion is really unlikely(that you wont get it) my advice is for you to go to college and experience that type of atmosphere. In that this seams to be a lifelong goal for you... you can still retake the SAT when you are in college. Example... Vince Carter had the oppurtunity to go to the NBA and he did so. But he always wanted to get his college diploma and eventually went back to north carolina and received it.(unfortunately it was on the biggest game of his life, game 7 of the eastern conference finals where he missed the game winner) but anyways... keep progressing incognito. You seem like an extremely bright kid and the world needs people like you. Dont waste your life with this SAT goal and if you want to get that 1600 that badly take it 100 times when you are in college. Im sure you will get it tho, and try to utilize what i said to your advantage. Enjoy life because you only live once. TTYL incognito, you can feel free to instant message me at mvp1624 or email me at mikecoloprisco@yahoo.com. See you later
-mikec
| By behappy on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:47 am: Edit |
OK I am glad your allright
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:51 am: Edit |
thanx mike. Good luck to you too man!
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:52 am: Edit |
and thank you too, behappy
| By mikec on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:53 am: Edit |
alright incognito... i just dont want someone like you who is really special to have a miserable life. Im 100 percent sure you will be extremely successful and please your parents to unimaginable extents. Good luck in life man.
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:57 am: Edit |
thanx dude. you too.
| By mc on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:58 am: Edit |
can someone explain to me how to remember forces for physics ?
i cant stand physics
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 01:17 am: Edit |
one more question for incognito or anyone else:
In '10 Real Sats' their are no answer explinations for the practice tests. How do you learn from your mistakes then?
| By mikec on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 01:22 am: Edit |
i have a question.. in physics.. what is the equation for max height???
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 01:34 am: Edit |
There are no given explanations anywhere, really, so:
Jason, here's what i do:
Take a look at the explanations to questions BEFORE the tests start. In "10 Real SATs", before around page 240, they give you all sorts of advice and practice questions. There are explanations. Also, every morning, the first thing i do when i wake up is look at the SAT question of the day at the following website:
http://www.collegeboard.com/apps/qotd/question
After each question here, they give an explanation.
By doing this every morning/day, you get into the CB's way of thinking. After seeing so many explanations, you begin to fathom the logic of the College Board. Unfortunately, there are rarely Crit Reading questions as the question of the day. You have to learn how they THINK. If you look at the question of the day every day until you take the real thing, that could be hundreds of explanations. Also, if you buy the software "One-On-One With the SAT", they may provide you with explanations to hundreds of questions (or at least the older version did, i'm not sure about the newer vestion) After understandting their logic, you can virtually solve the questions in the book yourself and provide your OWN explanations (althogh there are a FEW question on which i have been unable to to this).
By the way, do NOT BUY the software from the College Board. It costs $30. I'm sure you can pirate the software instead!
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:00 pm: Edit |
dvide:quantity is not a clear relationship because u do not necesarily have to divide a quantity. This is actually a rather easy anology compared to others on the sat and chances are if you still can not understand it ur 1530 is either bogus or extremely lucky.
| By ABC on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 01:38 pm: Edit |
Jason and incognito:
Have you guys hear of a company called "studyworks"? I got a flyer from them in my mail a few days ago about their SAT course and other study materials they offer. They sell a book that has explained answers for tests from 10 real SATs. You guys wouldn't happen to know if this is any good do you?
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 03:27 pm: Edit |
Mattymatt, my 1530 is not bogus. I did not consider that analogy very easy. First of all, that analogy is CLASSIFIED AS A 4!!!!!! IT WAS THE THIRD TO LAST ONE IN THE SET, MATT! IF YOU WANT PROOF, THEN OPEN "10 REAL SATs" TO PAGE # 330 AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF! I GET THE REALLY HARD ONES RIGHT (THE ONES AT THE END OF A SET) ONLY BECAUSE THEY REQUIRE A GOOD VOCABULARY, AND I HAVE THAT! DONT SIT THERE AND TELL ME THAT I AM TELLING YOU A F*CKING LIE IF A) I AM TRYING TO ACTUALLY HELP SOME OF YOU, AND B) I HAVE NO REASON TO TELL LIES ON A GOD DAMN MESSAGE BOARD!
as for you, ABC, I have only heard of "studyworks". I have never actually seen it, so i'm afraid i cannot advise you. sorry.
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 06:16 pm: Edit |
Same here. I have heard of it. But doesnt the answer explanation book cost like $30?
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 08:42 pm: Edit |
Just who exactly are you helping, you have been studying vocabulary for over 2 years now and all you have to say for yourself is a 720 verbal? Yet for some reason all you are preaching about is verbal instead of math which you could actually be helpfull. Have you ever heard of review courses that do more harm than good? I think that is a fair comparrison to yourself. I feel almost compelled to feel bad for those that take you serious but are just seriously misguided. You never opened a princeton review book? Perhaps thats your problem right there, PR helped me topple your verbal score in approximatly 1|100000 of the time. You try to be an example to others but your taking a year off from college to raise your sat 70 points? I hate to break it to you with no EC's or Community Service no ivy league school would ever accept you regardless of your sat. You lack character. The best college you will be admitted to is a large high calibur but not ivy league school, and in that case 1530 or 1600 would make no difference, a 1450 would be suffiecient for that matter. You claim to have memorized 40,0000 words, thats nearly 1/3 of the dictionary and surely a waste of time. Princeton Review can give you a list of 350 that will all almost appear on the sat. Do not preach what you dont know father.
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 09:18 pm: Edit |
I will try the PR book. The reason I haven’t yet is because it's not available in the library. I'll buy it. Fine. Also, a 720, IN GENERAL, is not a bad verbal score. I'm taking "a year off" because i have serious problems. We can dwell on them some more if you like, but frankly, Mat, I don’t really want to discuss them, and ppl don’t want to hear them. I have to take a year off if i don’t get the 1600 in June. Just to let you know, Mat, Ivy leagues are not my goal at all. Where did you EVER get that idea. Did i ever say anything about Ivy leagues, Mat?? NO. Actually, my friend, I said quite the opposite: that i don’t care about college right now. I was very explicit. I don’t have ECs for several reasons, and again, I can dwell on my problems if you really want to hear them on an "SAT MESSAGE BOARD" or whatever you want to call it. Ivy leagues...screw them Mat. I could care less if I was in prison or a community college or in an Ivy league school in 3 years from now anyway! Yes, Mat, I do lack character, but I don’t think that my "lack of character" is your f*cking problem to worry about. Yes, a 1440 would be sufficient. Hell, I know a kid who is getting into Yale w/a 1480. I haven’t applied, because its not on my mind. By the way, Mat, I have never contended that i memorized 40,0000 words. Don’t read the number wrong (apparently you do need some help w/the math there). It was 42,000 words TOTAL over a period of years. If you think about it, it's not much. Is it a waste of time? Yes! For you at least, because you don’t have the same goals that I have! You don’t understand other people, Mat. OK, so if it's a waste of time, then it's MY time, and I'm sure that anybody getting involved w/such a project understands how much time is entailed from the start. "Do not preach what you don’t know father." Sorry, Matt, but I am not preaching. I was asked a question, and I told these people what I did. Period. I personally think that its good advice for anybody who is very hard working and ambitious. I am not so sure if colleges will appreciate your apparent laziness. Do not try to shut me down If all I am doing is giving some advice. Not everyone has to memorize big lists, but I still think that my advice is valuable, valid, and rather hard to come by. I'm sure it will help a lot of people out there.
| By neur0tic7 on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 09:32 pm: Edit |
I am inclined to agree with incognito here, Mathew. He is just giving advice. If people see that incognito spent so much time on a vocab list or whatever, they can make decisions for themselves not to do the same. Incognito can post all the advice he wants (some of it does look pretty good actually, except for maybe memorizing 42,000 words - thats too much), people dont have to follow the advice. We can make decisions for ourselves, Matty, you dont have to make them for us. Leave incog alone and stop being an idiot, okay. His advice looks better than anything you have posted. So just leave him alone you idiot.
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 10:21 pm: Edit |
anything else?
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 10:30 pm: Edit |
"I have to take a year off if i don’t get the 1600 in June" WHY? sat does not measure intelligence take one PR course and that will be the first thing they embed in you. small wealthy minorities statisticaly have better chances to do well on it due to expensive review courses and tutors, while on the other end of the spectrum some can not even afford books. It is a biased test soley for college. It has no interpetation of your iq. You need to stop stressing it so much, 1530 is a great score and if ivies aren't what you are pulling for then go to another quality college that will surely accept you. if your not interested in college then why so interested in the sat? there are other things to take on as a hobby besides this. And what will happen if you don't get a 1600? Cuz the difference between a 1500 and a 1600 is purely luck based on probability. 1530 is in the top 1% tile in the country, leave it at that u did well.
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 10:33 pm: Edit |
Yes. Would you say that if I memorize Kaplans + Barrons + Grubers vocab list during the summer, I am set for the sentence comp and analogies?
Those 5 books you listed to improve critical reading score: did your score improve at all right after reading them? Are those books similar to that of the SAT in content or similar in writing level?
How much math practice did you have to do to continuously get 800's in it (in hours)?
| By incognito on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit |
hmm...well Matty, I at least appreciate the fact that this time you didn’t seem as angry with me as you did last time. Believe me Matty; I have heard the advice that you are giving me now from many intelligent ppl that i know. I will not take the PR course only because everything in the course is probably in the book (so why not save the hundreds of dollars?). You tell me to stop stressing about it so much. Matty, I have been going to Therapy for 9 months now. I have a serious problem. I know. I don’t really know why I have this problem, or how it started, but I can’t sleep at night, and I can barely eat because of this absence of 1600 in the back of my mind. As for your argument on the IQ, apparently everyone else agrees w/you on that (see my forum "Does the SAT test IQ?"), and i am beginning to as well. I will go to college one day, but I just haven’t started thinking about it because I am just so f*cked up! You told me to apply to college. Well i already applied to the University of Rochester and got accepted; but I'm not going because i realized that I will not just go on w/this type of mentality w/out addressing the SAT first. You call it a hobby, and i think i also called it a hobby before, but maybe i was wrong; hobbies don’t interfere w/your life and your health. A 1600 IS purely luck, Mat; I just want to be lucky then. Well, whatever, thanx for the advice anyway, and I'll be sure to check out this PR book that you're talking about.
| By TN on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 01:12 am: Edit |
incognito, you memorized 42,000 words? That's crazy; after a while don't you find it challenging to find new words to memorize? If not, what was your source for this 42,000 words? If i tried to memorize that many words, i'd probably give up trying to find sources for new words a long time ago. This shows you have determination, that's a good thing...
Memorizing 42,000 words over a span of, lets say, 4 years isn't hard; it's approximately 28-29 words a day, but to find new words after a while is (i think) challenging, and to come back to check if you actually remember most of the 42,000 words would even be more challenging (in my opinion, not unless there's a system i'm not aware of, one that's effective for reviewing 42,000 words). Do you use your entire summer going back to the words you learnt last year or something, crazy...
Anyways, hope you get your 1600
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 01:22 am: Edit |
hey incognito, in case you forgot, my last set of questions are a couple posts up.
| By . on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 01:32 am: Edit |
well, TN, if what Matty said about PR and how its really good is the truth (which it I will soon find out, i wouldnt be surprised if it was the truth), then dont even consider the 42,000 words. Do not do it! It's dreadful! But you asked HOW i did it, so i might as well just tell you:
How did I do it? Well, I started off w/Kaplan's list of 2,200 words.
Then, after completing that, I had a lot of time, so I just said, Well, why not try Barron's 3500 words? The vocab in the NOVA prep book gave me about an extra 500 words, because their list is so long and very unusual. So it became about 4730 words. If you buy "Franklin's Electronic Pocked Dictionary" there is a special feature in which you can review a list of 4,300 words. I got an extra maybe 200 from that. It became 4,900 words or so. Because my parents are immigrants, they stress learning the English language, so ever since I was about six, I had to memorize about 20 or so words a day, even though my english was fine. My parents just stopped making me memorize these miscelaneous non-SAT words from the dictionary when I started 10th grade (which was around the time that i started SAT prep) Looking over the words, it probably actually doesnt add up to 42,000. 30,000 to 35,000 may be a more accurate figure. I once thought about reviewing a hundred a day. Instead, I just decided to review words in Grubers, Barrons, and my Franklin Pocked dictionary. Every day after school, I review about 150 words for about 45 minutes or so.
But the equation is not that simple. It's not just 2200 words + 3500 words. The reason for this is because about 90% of the Kaplan words were in the Barrons list. So, the equation would really be:
2200 + [3500-(0.9)(2200)] = 2200 + [3500-1980] = 2200 + 1520 = 3720 words.
Then, after that, I memorized Gruber's entire 3400 word list. Because i already knew so many words from Kaplan+Barrons, I just had to memorize about 15% of the 3400 Gruber word list (so that added 510 to the 3720 words indicated above, giving me about 4,230 words. I have most likely forgotan at least a third of the words i studied before tenth grade. As for the SAT lists, I'm pretty good. What i need to start doing is stop it with the vocab, and just read.
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 01:59 am: Edit |
oh, sorry about that Jason
I have a lot to say, so just stay w/me
Let me put it to you this way, Jay: If you memorize these lists, you will DEFINATELY be set for both (2/3 tests, the only thing i get wrong is an analogy; 1/3 tests, I'm flawless on all the verbal except Crit reading). HOWEVER, I think that matty had a point. The big problem about memorizing huge lists maybe that it makes you more nervous about the test. Some think that memorizing huge lists makes you blow the whole test out of proportion! so be very careful about that. Personally, if you have the time (maybe like 45 minutes or so a day, depending on how good your memory is), I think it would be a good idea BUT ONLY BECAUSE I HAVE A SICK MIND WHEN IT COMES TO THE SAT AND THIS METHOD WORKED FOR ME. You may find a way around it. I hear good things about PR. Check it out. Also, you do NOT need to know every word of an analogy. In many cases, you only need to know ONE of the stem words! So the likelihood that you will get a question wrong because you don’t understand the vocab after memorizing lists is not great. Whenever i get an analogy wrong, it is pretty much always somewhere in the MIDDLE of the section, not the end. Reasons for this may be either a) the stem words never appeared on a test before, and even though they are commonly known words to most people (like the word "thicket" for example) i don’t know them, because i am really not as intuitive as most ppl are in terms of simple but rarely used known vocab. Another reason may be that I simply cannot fathom the relationship between the words. The analogy SORT::CRITERION: was one such analogy. It took me a while to get it.
So, in short, will you be fine if you memorize these lists? Yes. However, asking that q is tantamount to asking me if you will be safe from a plane accident if you never board a plane. Well, yes of course you'll be safe, but that does not necessarily mean you will be in any danger if you DO board a plane. See what i mean?
And as for those SIX books mentioned above:
well, after i read many books in between these ones, plus many articles, so naturally yes. However, Do NOT EXPECT TO JUST SIT DOWN AND READ THESE BOOKS AND THEN BRING YOUR SCORE UP. It takes a very long time (in terms of months or years, not days or weeks!). I have not yet found any very effective "quick fixes" to these Crit reading comp questions. Practice helps a lot. Get to know the questions. Notice, by the way, how there are a lot (NOT EVERY) of ppl who get 95%+ of their Crit reading right, and they have been reading books outside of school since Middle school or even elementary school.
And as for the math:
Well, to be honest, i think I’m just very good w/math problems in general. I just reviewed the material in the book and did some practice questions. If you total it all up, I probably spent about 15 hrs worth or prepping for math - a negligible amount of time when compared to my verbal prep.
Before I post this, I just want to say that I AM a lunatic when it comes to this test. Don’t end up like me, please. You'll be miserable, and your GPA will suffer tremendously. Don’t let this fukin test go to your head. I already got to mine, and i think its too late for me to do much about it. Live your lives. Have a good time. Prep in MODERATION; take other viewpoints other than mine (again, I'm not an authority on all this SAT sh*t), and good luck when the test day comes!!
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 02:18 am: Edit |
Thanks for that info. Yeah I know I wont take it to the extent of fanaticism (no offense).
Also, I have heard of people getting 750+ verbal scores who never read. Either they must be naturally skilled or have some special strategy.
Thanks again for all the info.
| By dang on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 06:55 am: Edit |
u guys are crazy, especially incognito. SAT scores dont mean that much, at least not enough to merit putting ur life on hold for it. 1530 is hella good. This coming from a guy in an all Asian town. Instead of memorizing and doing tests, go READ! WIth all that time u absorb so much info AND improve ur reading skillz AND learn vocab.
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 02:11 pm: Edit |
Yes, reading really is the key guys. If you dont beleive me, let me just quote something from "10 REAL SATs"
"There's no shortcut for doing well on critical reading questions. The best way to imporve your reading skills is to practice - not just with specfic passages and multiple choice test questions, but with books, magazines, essays and newspapers that include complex ideas, challenging vocabulary, and subjects that make you think."
--Page #95 of "10 Real SATs"
| By •••• man on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 02:14 pm: Edit |
You have problems psycho.
I bet you memorized the whole fuckin book you fuckin ••••••. What the •••• is wrong with you. Are you a •••• pile of ••••? •••• man. ••••. if i were you id end my fuckin life you bitch. So go •••• ure fuckin •••• •••• you fuckin son of a bitch. and get a ••••••• life or fuckin die.
| By asdasdf on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 02:24 pm: Edit |
>> --Page #95 of "10 Real SATs" <<
I bet you memorized that page number didn't you? Weirdo. Get a fu.cking life.
| By Stanford 06 on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 02:30 pm: Edit |
Incognito- No offense, but if you memorize 42,000 words and can't break a 1600 you shouldn't EXPECT to get a perfect score. Honestly. I reviewed only a few hundred and got a 1600. You simply lack the skill necessary, possibly because you are not a native English speaker. You probably know 41,700 words than the average person, yet score lower on these tests.
Just forget the test, experience college, and get a damn social life. Geez. Do you honestly feel you would have won much of a war when you memorized the dictionary and took the damn test so many times and even delayed college for it? That is no victory my friend. None at all.
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:23 pm: Edit |
I find it funny how many people claim to have perfect scores or close to it on this fourm (standord). There is such a limited number of actual 1600's each year that the odds of having such a sparse number of them post on this fourm is well impossible. Chances are if you have a 1600 what are you posting here for anyway? What help do u need, none? People have incredibly low self esteems around here, it's almost pathetic.
As for the critical reading passages, surpisingly I find them the easiest section of the verbal. I think it helps to have some knowledge of how to speed read( not just skimming but skimming for important words) some high schools even have classes for that. But I guess the most crucial element is reading a lot of poetry, once you can feel comfortable analyzing poetry, the questions are a breeze
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:25 pm: Edit |
If you can learn to determine the tone of the writer and be aware of some diction, the answers to most of the questions follow a similar trend
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit |
thanx Matty. I also hear that reading poetry can help you a lot on the SAT II writing
| By Mrowry on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 04:07 pm: Edit |
People, stop beating up on incognito. You want to know why some become so determined to reach that 1600? It's because certain obnoxious people keep telling them to stop... that they have intellectual inadequacies and will never get there. In incognito's case, the issue is much more complex than a simple college admission; it will affect how people regard him, and how he regards himself, for the rest of his life. In fact, he's reached a point where stopping is no longer an option. Everyone, leave him alone. Incognito, go for the gold.
| By jamu86 on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 04:21 pm: Edit |
Yeah, I agree w/ Mrowry...I mean if that's your goal then go for it...we have no right to judge what other poeple want.
| By Jennifer on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 05:27 pm: Edit |
While "standford" may or may not have gotten a 1600 on his SATs, I find it hard to believe that incognito memorized 42,000 words and got a 13XX on his last test... That seems more unbelievable to me.
| By Mrowry on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 05:29 pm: Edit |
*sigh* Didn't he already say his weakness was critical reading, not sentence completions or analogies?
| By Jennifer on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 05:51 pm: Edit |
Keep sighing. I don't care what his weakness is, all I do know is that I highly doubt that anybody would memorize THAT many words. I heard his little story and I'm not buying it.
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 06:02 pm: Edit |
Jennifer, i don’t know if you read all the posts, so let me just inform you. All those words, well, i started studying them when i was roughly six (i know it was early elementary school @ least, because I started studying the words when I was put in Special Education, which was in first grade). Actually, in terms of SAT words, I probably memorized about 4,500 SAT words (see math above). I review a lot of them each day. The other words are completely USELESS to me, because they're really not SAT words at all! Jennifer, let me be honest, but don’t take offense. I do not sit here and talk about this or that for a laugh, okay. If you don’t want to take me seriously (which I can understand completely), then fine. I don’t care if you don’t believe me. I'm not here to laugh. I have no reason to laugh, considering my very sad state.
Mrowry apparently did read the above posts, because (s)he understands that I have no trouble w/analogies and definitely not a single problem when it comes to Scent comps. My Crit reading is the REAL problem. I tried everything, from quick fixes to reading a lot of complex lit to poetry to speed reading (see the forum on "Speed Reading, Photographic memory... something... something..") If anybody can recommend any other books or stratagies for prepping that would be great.
Mrowry and jamu, thanx for those other threads.
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 06:12 pm: Edit |
you know what Jennifer, before i thought that i was the only sad one on this forum. I was wrong; anybody who sits there and tells me I'm wrong has no purpose. "I'm not buying it" Well, fine then, don’t buy it. Well, you know what, I don’t give a flying f*ck because i still don’t have what i want. What the hell do YOU want Jennifer? For me to come here and say, "well no, i was just bored so i told you i memorized x words, even though i never opened a book in my life but got a decent grade" What will that do for you Jennifer?? I know it's sad, but there are ppl like me out there! So just deal with it! The same goes for asdasdf. Don’t sit there and tell me you don’t believe me, if you could be much more useful and productive if you had suggestions for other ppl on this forum and/or myself...
| By Jennifer on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 06:13 pm: Edit |
But then there is that whole obsession you have with this test. If I recall correctly in another thread you said "it has become my life", and now you are delaying a year before you go to college for it. Maybe you are being truthful, but I just find that VERY odd. If you are telling the truth however, good luck.
Whatever.
| By hey on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 06:56 pm: Edit |
I have a few comments.
First of all, I think incognito has ended up memorizing so many words because he started from nothing and pretty much had to memorize every work in the language. Incognito, how old were you when you came to the USA? Where are you from?
Also, incognito, you seem to spend so much time in this Forum. Do you think that it helps you?
| By Mrowry on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:01 pm: Edit |
Ok, there's definitely some malefic individual lurking about on these threads. The most recent incognito "post" definitely looks fake, and unless he's schizophrenic, I highly doubt the real incognito wrote it. Someone just faked a post under my name too (in "THIS IS THE JANUARY SAT FORUM...").
| By Jennifer on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:06 pm: Edit |
Really? Why do you think it's fake? It sounds like him to me...?
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:09 pm: Edit |
Mrowry, this IS incognito,
did you really write that thread on "THIS IS THE JANUARY SAT FORUM..."? Why would you hate me? I've done nothing wrong.
As for you, hey, I came to this country when i was 5. I'd rather not say WHere i came from, for a simple reason: if everybody on this forum hates me this much, then there's got to be at least somebody who is crazy enough to track me down and kill me or something. Hey, you have a good point. I'm not getting much help out of having ppl yell at me and calling me a psycho who needs to kill him/her self. I think i may just do my work, and come back in like 2 or 3 hrs or something.
| By Jennifer on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:09 pm: Edit |
Oh wait, I see the possible fake post. The one posted at 6:12. I missed that one, he posted just a minute before me. Yeah, it does sound a little fake.
| By Jennifer on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:11 pm: Edit |
Err...Ok, I take that back. I just read your new post. (you're too quick incog, lol)
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:15 pm: Edit |
No jen, i did write that actually. Sorry i called you sad, but i posted that one right after you wrote you're 6:13 one. And Hey has a point, I Had to learn the entire English language...
| By Mrowry on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:19 pm: Edit |
Erm? I'm completely lost now.
No, incognito, I did not write that nasty post in the other thread.
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:34 pm: Edit |
This is the real incognito. There is nothing up there that i did not write. What seems so fake about my 6:12 post??
| By Mrowry on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 08:21 pm: Edit |
The grammar and the tone.
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 08:28 pm: Edit |
"If you can learn to determine the tone of the writer and be aware of some diction, the answers to most of the questions follow a similar trend"
That seems like a good idea. Can you expand on that please?
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 08:58 pm: Edit |
Mrowry, I did write that.
| By Mrowry on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 09:12 pm: Edit |
Yeah, I figured that after a while. But while we're on the subject of tone, why don't you answer Jason817's question? It seems I misdetermined the tone of the writer in this case, and was not aware of some important diction. ;-)
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 09:14 pm: Edit |
lol
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 09:36 pm: Edit |
I cannot answer Jason's question. Sorry. Crit reading is NOT my area. He quoted Matty, not me. I did not write that quote mentioned by Matty. I really think that Matty should answer Jason, because Matty wrote the advice. I'm sure you'll get a good answer. If Matty doesnt answer the q tonight, I'll at least TRY to give it a shot, because i think i know what matty meant. Sorry, Jason, and thanx for that Kaplan info, by the way.
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 09:38 pm: Edit |
lol, Mrowry. 
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:49 pm: Edit |
hmm i'm kinda having troubling finding the words to express what I mean. I know this sounds simple and obvious but lets say for example you are reading a passage about slavery. Look for certain words that are bold and stand out that could possibly depict the personal feelings of the writer. And say for example you find some strong words that woudl indicate the author is against slavery, well then you can use that to help eliminate many answer chocies that woudl only be correct if he was neutral or was pro slavery... i dunno it's kind of hard to explain i guess it's just somehting you pick up on after analyzing a lot of poems...i would be appreciative is someone actually understands what i'm talking about and can aliterate more on it
| By incognito on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit |
Jason, if you have "10 Real SATs" take a look at pages 74 and 75. They talk a little bit about tones and stuff. They dont give you much, but its something to see anyway. Hope it helps...
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:57 pm: Edit |
Okay. So, for example, if a question was asking for the best title for the passage, you would choose the one that most represents an anti-slavery sentiment? Whatever the case, I'll practice this and try this strategy. Thanks a lot. By the way, what results did you get by using this strategy?
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 11:49 pm: Edit |
correct.. 760 verbal i don't even want to say my math score it's low and i need help desperatly on that
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit |
You can almost always narrow it down to 2 possible answer chocies on the reading, and when it comes down to that you just have to think like the people who made the test, they purpsoley put one of the two their to mess with you
| By Mattymatt (Mattymatt) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 11:54 pm: Edit |
I seen your post in some other thread about the high gpa and low sat, you should invest in a PR classroom course if you can fund the money, i think it's like $1000. Most likely your just not fimilar with this kind of a test and PR does great things to make you feel as comfortable as you woudl taking a normal test in school. Average increase for pr is 140 points, but the top 25% is 250. I suspect you will be in the top 25% since you are naturally intelligent, unlike some of the characters who take the class
| By Jason817 (Jason817) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 11:59 pm: Edit |
yes. Thank you. PR also has an Ivy League course that guarentees a 1400. But what sucks is that you need 1250 to get in, which I dont have.
Anyways, thanks again. And as for math, incognito suggested Grubers. I am using it it has lots of strategies
| By Numbertwopencil (Numbertwopencil) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 01:12 pm: Edit |
Sweet Zombie Jesus. Incognito, let me put this to you as bluntly as possible: I got into Amherst College at the age of 15 based primarily on my SAT score. I got into grad school at the age of 19 based primarily on my GRE score. The vast majority of my employment over the last 9 years has been in the field of standardized test prep: administration, editing, teaching, tutoring. I've just started a website which is almost entirely about standardized testing. I have taken every SAT, GRE, GMAT, and LSAT in print at least once. At this point, the question on each test isn't whether I can get a perfect score, but how quickly I can do it; with the SAT, I've got it down to under 10 minutes per section. And I still think that your plan is bananers.
This doesn't mean that I think you're bananers, though, and the good news is that, if you can extricate yourself from your current obsessive-compulsive behavior -- and nearly everyone has been there to some extent with something or other, whether it's SATs, smoking, or text messaging -- you'll find that the time you've already spent prepping will have been mostly well spent. I mean, there are far, far worse things high school students can and do spend their free time on than reading Joseph Kerman and John Gardner; as a professional tutor, I can assure you that your approach to Critical Reading improvement is exemplary. (Speaking of which, I recommend that you add some James Thurber or E.B. White to your list when you get a chance; they're both model short essayists, and hilarious to boot.) But putting off college just in order to pursue that elusive 1600 is -- and I say this with affection, and as a fellow member of the Elite Brother/Sisterhood of Serious Freaking SAT Nerds -- a really, really godawful idea.
I mean, even the stated logic behind your argument is inherently self-contradictory. The best possible argument against the SAT being any sort of definitive measure of intelligence is, after all, your very own existence: you've managed to increase your score 450 points in the span of two years without your brains spontaneously exploding out your ears. As far as I know. It's clear that you recognize your own behavior as neurotic: you wrote "somehow i have come to believe that the SAT I measures innate intelligence," which makes it sound like you don't even really believe in your own belief. Ironically, this shows that you really do have the sort of critical thinking skills that the SAT rewards to some extent -- I consider it a strong sign of intelligence when people can recognize their own irrational behavior as such. But now, you need to do something about it. It's good to hear that you've been in therapy for nine months, assuming it's a good therapist. Being a test prep guy and not a psychiatrist, I obviously can't give you any formal advice on the subject. But I know that in dealing with my own mild OCD (which mostly manifests itself as writer's block and a whole lot of cigarettes,) three things have been moderately effective: medication, meditation and/or exercise, and EMDR.
Medication is a personal matter, and one that I'm not going to touch with a 40 foot pole; suffice it to say that your situation is known to frequently respond to a wide range of pharmacological treatments. Meditation is also a personal matter, though let me make it clear that I'm not talking about anything religious, or even spiritual -- just going to a yoga class and being forced to stretch your body seven ways to Sunday can do your brain a world of good. And exercise is, of course, a no-brainer in terms of reducing stress and depression; if you're too self-conscious to do it in public and since you clearly like mastering graded activities, go get yourself a 30 dollar Dance Dance Revolution mat for the Playstation and bounce up and down like a maniac for a half-hour in the privacy of your own bedroom. I guarantee it'll reduce your stress levels -- as long as you don't become too occupied with getting an AAA score.
The last thing I mentioned, EMDR, is the wild card; to describe it, I'll quote from Andrew Solomon's excellent book The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression:
"Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) therapy originated in 1987 for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder. The technique is a bit kitschy. The therapist moves his hand at various rates across a field from your right-side peripheral vision to your left-side peripheral vision, so stimulating one eye and then the other. In a variant on the technique, you wear headphones that alternate sounds to stimulate one ear and then the other; or in a third possibility you hold little vibrators [quiet, you -- they're little vibrating pads], one in each hand, and they pulse alternatingly. While this is going on, you go through a psychodynamic process of remembering your trauma and reliving it, and at the end of the session you are free of it. While many therapies--psychoanalysis, for example--comprise beautiful theories and limited results, EMDR has silly theories and excellent results. [Emphasis mine.] Practictioners of the therapy speculate that it works by stimulating left and right brain in rapid alteration, so helping to transfer memories from one brain storage center to another. This seems unlikely. Something, however, about EMDR's oscillating stimulation does have a dramatic effect."
This jibes with my experience, more or less; I haven't found the effect to be overly dramatic except on a few occasions, but it's nearly always noticeable, even given that my own personal stress disorder isn't really all that traumatic, or even post-traumatic. It's not a panacea, but it's probably worth your while to do some web research and ask your therapist about it.
But let's go back to talking about something I can give an expert opinion on. As someone who's spent the last decade of his life surrounded by standardized tests, I can tell you one thing for a fact: the SAT is a game. It's a good game, in my opinion, and I genuinely enjoy it; like Chess or Bridge or Scrabble or Settlers of Catan or Dance Dance Revolution, it's elegantly designed and tests abilities and skills that I find value in improving. But still, it's just a game -- and there's not a game in existence that can tell you whether you're a genius or an idiot, especially since the answer is inevitably "both, depending on the circumstances." But think about it: is a person who's really good at chess actually smarter than a person who's not? Well, sure -- all other things being equal, I'd say so. But all other things never end up equal; there are plenty of chass grandmastes out there who are useless dolts in general, and there's plenty of geniuses out there who couldn't win a game if you spotted them two queens and a bishop. Being a top-notch SAT-taker is something you should be proud of, especially since you did it all through sheer force of will. But becoming totally obsessed with any game is, as you know, not the recipe for a happy life.
If you want my free professional SAT tutor advice, incognito, here it is: if there's any one text you really need to read in order to improve your understanding of the SAT, it's Stefan Fatsis's recent book Word Freak. I imagine you'll identify with it; Fatsis, a Wall Street Journal sports reporter, goes from being a pretty good Scrabble player who's writing a feature on the game to becoming completely obsessed with winning an Official Scrabble Tournament. He takes a year-long sabbatical from his job in order to endlessly practice and memorize vocabulary lists, and unlike you, he's not even bothering to learn the definitions of the words -- in Scrabble, all that matters is sheer retention of hundreds of thousands of viable letter combinations. The chapter headings are his current ranking -- I forget exactly, but I think the qualifying score he's obsessed with getting is an 1800. I'm sure you can tweeze out the parallels on your own.
It's a well-written book, and funny as hell; the players he hangs out with are exactly the sort of endearingly awkward neurotics that always make for good anecdotes, and you end up learning a whole lot of interesting stuff about Scrabble, as well as about, for lack of a better term, the existential nature of gameplay. And you'll definitely end up admiring a lot of the skills involved; the list memorization is ludicrous and in my opinion pathetic, but the amount of tactics and sheer combinatorial ability involved in a high-powered game of Scrabble are actually pretty damned impressive. But after finishing the book, I think, you will come away with one major thought: Scrabble can be a whole lot of fun, and getting good at Scrabble can be a very worthy pursuit. But if you play too much of any one game, your intelligence doesn't grow -- it just warps.
This isn't to discourage you from eventually trying to get a 1600, only from letting the pursuit warp the rest of your life to the extent it clearly has. If you want to keep taking SATs on your own and trying to get a perfect score, hey, more power to you -- it's at least as commendable a pursuit as trying to break a million on Tony Hawk, something that I imagine several hundred thousand other kids your age are doing at this very moment. If you want to take a year off before college, that's fine too -- but I'd recommend doing something really interesting with that time, as you've got a lot of years of extracurricular torpor to make up for. Do whatever you really want to do -- but don't let some need for the Official Sanction of ETS screw with your mind. It's not worth it. I've some of them; they're nice people, and some of them are actually quite bright, but they're just not that impressive.
And the funny thing is, it's not like you can't keep honing your SAT skills without still having a life -- I'm living proof that you can maintain a moderate obsession with standardized tests for over a decade and still have time for a wide array of goofy hobbies. If you put yourself in a situation over the next year in which you sharpen your interpersonal skills, by the time you go to college you should be able to get work teaching SAT prep courses on the weekends. The Princeton Review took me on as a teacher when I was 18; I don't see any reason why they wouldn't give you a shot, especially if you make sure to sell the ol' pulled-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps angle. And then you can dispense all the knowledge you've accumulated over the last two years for 15 or 20 bucks an hour instead of for free on a message board, and then you can also get paid 75 bucks to go take the test and report back to them. And at some point you'll get that 1600, and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about, because you won't feel one iota different. And then you'll probably start training to teach the LSATs, and then you'll start stealing students away from me. And so it goes. Good luck.
| By Numbertwopencil (Numbertwopencil) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:04 pm: Edit |
Incidentally, just to follow up on the other questions raised on this thread:
1) As for the SORT : CRITERION analogy, 'olive oil' is correct to say that C is the only acceptable answer, but his/her sentence could be improved. On analogies, I have two general rules of thumb that are applicable here:
a) If the first stem word is a verb, it's generally best to use it in the infinitive (i.e., the 'to') form.
b) To be sure your sentence is accurate, don't just say "X is," say "X is defined as." It's a little awkward, and once you've used the phrase enough you can discard it like a pair of training wheels, but it will serve to remind you what you're really looking for: denotative relationships.
So, here's the sentence I would make for that original stem: "To SORT is defined as to arrange things by some CRITERION." Looking at the answers, it's clear that only C makes any sense: "To RANK is defined as to arrange things by some VALUE. D, on the other hand, makes only the most tenuous sort of sense: "To DIVIDE is defined as to arrange things by some QUANTITY"? This doesn't work, and I can't think of any denotative sentence for the stem words that would. So, C it is. Incognito is right to note that this is a hard question, though it's more likely due to the somewhat tortuous relationship than particularly difficult vocabulary -- of the twelve words listed, "criterion" is the only one I'd consider a real "SAT word."
2) jason817 asks:
1. Do you (specifically) read the whole critical reading passage?
2. How do you avoid making stupid mistakes on the math section? Like for me, sometimes I read the question wrong or make a minor mistake in my calculations and when I look back at it, I hit myself in the head. You would have to be flawless.
To answer these questions in order:
1) A huge part of doing well at Critical Reading is knowing how to skim for the gist/point of view of the passage instead of trying to remember (or even necessarily) every little detail. This is the main reason that doing a lot of outside reading is so helpful; the reaction you want to have after reading the first paragraph of any passage is "Oh yeah, this is kinda like that thing I read where...", because having a sense of the basic shape of the discussion at hand is what helps you see the forest for the trees. The important thing to keep in mind is that, unless you're one of the rare genetic freaks that actually has a photographic memory, you're not going to remember the exact wording from the passage when you get to the questions -- you're going to remember the gist of what was said, and there's inevitably going to be answer choices that take advantage of that mental slippage. So, given that you're going to have to go back to the passage constantly anyway, it doesn't really pay to spend too long on it the first time around. There's no easy answer to how much to read, but here's a decent general rule of thumb: if you already get the point the author is trying to make, there's no need for you to pore over any examples he/she might use to support it. On the other hand, if you don't get the author's point, the concrete examples will probably be what saves your neck. And of course, YMMV.
2) The best way to avoid stupid mistakes is, for one thing, to stop thinking of them as stupid. They're not -- they're careless, and there's a big difference, because carelessness can be fixed. My advice to you is fourfold: 1) Rely on a calculator as little as possible, 2) Write everything down in a neat and organized way, 3) Alter your bubbling technique, and 4) Read Donald Norman's The Design of Everyday Things.
The first piece of advice will backfire, of course, unless you're good at calculating things in your head or on paper -- but if you are, all a calculator does is draw your eyes away from the page like a magician draws your eyes away from his hands, with approximately the same effect. The second piece is obvious -- it's always a bad idea on the SAT to try to think and remember at the same time -- but note that you don't have to have particularly good handwriting to accomplish this. It doesn't have to be aesthetically pleasing, just clear to you. The third piece of advice may or may not apply: if you're okay with the time issue, though, I recommend writing the answers in the booklet (in BIG letters, to avoid any confusion) and then transferring them to the bubble sheet one two-page spread at a time. Like the first piece of advice, this is an issue of focus: if you want to get a high batting average, it's advisable for you to keep your eye on the ball as much as possible.
And the last piece of advice might be the most important. Norman's book is about, essentially, why people make careless mistakes -- why they stick forks in toasters, why they push on the wrong end of fire exits when they're trying to escape buildings, etc., etc -- and how designers can prevent people from making them. It's a fascinating, readable book, and it's also quite relevant to what people experience on the SAT. In a sense, you're both the designer and the user of each SAT question. As the 'user', by which I mean that stressed-out part of your brain that's doing the nitty-gritty math picking that final answer choice, you're virtually bound to make some sort of careless error -- after a decade, I still make them all the time. But I don't get any questions wrong, because the way I approach each question -- the steps I 'design' for myself -- helps me catch my mistakes before they actually hurt me. This is the side of the equation that you should be focusing on; if you analyze why you're making these 'careless' errors instead of just berating yourself for it, you're much more likely to not make them.
3) As for vocab building, all the suggestions given seem pretty good, though I'm not familiar with many of the books mentioned. Here's two more tips: if you have a Palm Pilot, try out this piece of software.Iit's a flash card program that I've found very useful; it keeps track of your hits and misses, tests you more frequently on the words you're missing, and even has a nifty multiple choice option. And if you'd like to build your vocabulary in an even more entertaining fashion, I highly recommend any and all volumes of Calvin and Hobbes that you can find. Bill Watterson was not only one of the best cartoonists of the last century -- and I say this as a guy who knows way, way too much about comic strips -- but he also consistently uses SAT-level vocabulary to make his jokes. Keep up the good work, and for the love of Pete, don't stress out too much -- few admissions officers care about the difference between a 750 and an 800. And the ones that do are generally idiots.
Okay, back to work for me: if you went to my website, you'll notice that I haven't even managed to get the blog going yet, mostly because I've been doing the sort of endless Googling that led me to stumble across this site here. I'll be starting it as soon as I finish the lengthy article on SAT retake policies I'm working on -- in the meantime, I think that anybody reading this thread will find my initial article pretty amusing. E-mail me or post here if you have any further questions, and good luck.
| By Mrowry (Mrowry) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:43 pm: Edit |
Wow. That was inspiring.
| By Wallflower (Wallflower) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 07:41 pm: Edit |
Any LSAT advice?
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