Dont believe people that tell you SAT's are not important!





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Discus: SAT/ACT Tests and Test Preparation: October 2003 Archive: Dont believe people that tell you SAT's are not important!
By Bobby443 (Bobby443) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Many people today say that SAT scores aren't important, but its apparent how wrong they are. I didn't know how important they were until my friends all began their college searches. Two of my friends, both taking lots of AP's, both having similar grades, one having better ec's, but having different SAT scores, really were set off on different level searches.

The friend that scored ~1200 and had better ec's is looking at relatively non-competitive schools.
The friend that scored 1500 is looking at schools like Brown, Middlebury, Harvard, etc...

sat scores really do change the whole starting perception and goals of a student, and really are important...

By Neo (Neo) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 08:40 pm: Edit

I agree wholeheartedly. No matter what people may tell you, if you apply to an Ivy or a state school, the first thing the admissions officer(s) will look at is the set of standardized test scores (ACT or SAT). A high score immediately categorizes you as a "smart kid" in the mind of an adcom, while a low score -- well, you see where I'm going. This is from The Underground Guide to the SAT, by the way.

But the point is, even if it didn't immediately have a subconscious effect on the adcoms, it wouldn't really matter, because it immediately has the same type of effect on an applicant. The average kid with an SAT of 1200 just isn't going to start looking at the Ivies or top-25s unless they've got a.)rich/smart parents, or b.)high aspirations. Either of those would make that student ABOVE average.

But the average kid with an SAT of 1400+ or an ACT composite of 32+ is quite likely to turn his or her eyes towards the top-25 or the Ivies without much in the way of a second thought. If you don't think you can get in because of your scores, you're not likely to even apply. But if your scores are within the "anything's possible" point, or as it's commonly referred to, the 50th percentile range, then at the very least, you're going to start thinking seriously about applying.

That said, standardized test scores aren't everything. But let's face it -- very few of us would be dreaming the Ivy dream right now if we hadn't scored "in range" when we took our SATs/ACTs.

By Bobby443 (Bobby443) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 08:53 pm: Edit

My school has been giving us speaches and presentations this year, telling us that "a.)rich/smart parents, or b.)high aspirations" wont help us a bit.

By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 10:44 pm: Edit

"Speaches", oh goodness.

By Neo (Neo) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 10:46 pm: Edit

Your school's trying to hold you down. I suggest you study as hard as possible to get out of there before they kill your dreams.

By The007expert (The007expert) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Bobby443, you are correct. People who don't have high SAT scores are just looking at State Universities. But in the Midwest, everybody hardly knows what the SAT I/II is.

By Anduin (Anduin) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 02:46 am: Edit

What are you talking about, the007? That's possible because some Midwestern states favor the ACT, but virtually everyone who has been to college or has relatives who have gone to college or is currently playing the College Game is familiar with these standardized tests. I'm from the Midwest, and I first heard of the SAT when I was 6 or 7, if not younger.

By Sidis (Sidis) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 11:06 am: Edit

I heard about it a month before 16

By Beenthereil (Beenthereil) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 12:51 pm: Edit

Agree with you, And.

Anyone that can count to 10 and has aspirations of attending college has heard of the ACT and SATI/II.

By Ghostman (Ghostman) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 01:43 am: Edit

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9...uh oh, what comes after 9?


eek, i can't believe i got a 740 math IIC.

By Ageorgis (Ageorgis) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 11:30 am: Edit

This is true unless you are transferring.

A student that can achieve a 4.0 average after 2 semesters at say George Washington University while "only" managing to score a ~1200ish on their SAT tests will no doubt be able to perform close in Ivy League schools.

The SAT measures how well you will perform during your Freshman year in college.

If you have a low SAT score, but manage to get the highest possible GPA at a relatively decent school, it's fairly obvious that the SAT is meaningless in showing those Ivies what you are capable of. I'd say that your GPA would tell the story all by itself.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Ageorgis,

You said "If you have a low SAT score, but manage to get the highest possible GPA at a relatively decent school, it's fairly obvious that the SAT is meaningless in showing those Ivies what you are capable of. I'd say that your GPA would tell the story all by itself."

Interestingly, College Board research found that, in the case you describe, the correlation between SAT score, HS GPA and first year college grades was horrible. The study looked at SAT scores discordant with GPA. So no, the discrepancy is NOT meaningless. Rather, it is a big watch out to any adcom who has read the College Board's own research.

Please do not be misled by College Board propaganda. They claim the SAT predicts first year performance. Their own published research shows that HS grades predict college freshman grades with a validity coeffecient of between .3 and .6 (the latter is derived with many corrections). The SAT adds only 0.1 to any of these. A big part of the reason for the small increment is that HS grades and SAT score are highly correlated. Nonetheless, the SAT does not add much predictive information.

By Folk_Hero (Folk_Hero) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Well, when a school admits only those who scored within a tiny SAT range, of course it's not going to predict first-year performance. If most people at William and Mary, for instance, scored in the 1300s, but the average GPA is like 2.8... you see the problem. Not necessarily the SAT's fault.


Know what it does correlate highly with? IQ scores.

By Dkm (Dkm) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 05:22 pm: Edit

yeh tat is 100 % true...sat is just a alternative measure of ur IQ...except u need to be proficient in english and Math..anyone with a high IQ will b anyway.

By Number9 (Number9) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 05:42 pm: Edit

>>yeh tat is 100 % true...sat is just a alternative measure of ur IQ

BS!

I have a high IQ (143), I do very well in school, but for some reason, I have the hardest time with the SAT and PSAT.

By Sidis (Sidis) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

That is SERIOUS BS!!

I also have a gifted IQ and have a 1300 sat! (Although I'm a foreigner). SATs only measure math and verbal skills not intelligence itself. The correlation between both is the same as with rain vs. flu

nuff said

By Folk_Hero (Folk_Hero) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit

I think it's a fine test for all-American types. I thought it was quite interesting, though, that though many who are not part of mainstream American culture are screwed over by it, this site (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/) says it correlates highly with IQ.

By Neo (Neo) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:49 am: Edit

It's a math and verbal test IN ENGLISH.

One can argue that the math portion can be completed by competent math types in any language, but it's a much tougher case to argue that the verbal test isn't geared towards Native English speakers.

If Albert E. had taken an SAT before he learned to speak English, he'd most likely have performed "below expectations", to say the least, on the Verbal section, if not on the Mathematical one.

I don't think the SAT has much to do with IQ levels for that reason alone.

Besides that, studying will improve your scores -- no matter how intelligent you happen to be in the first place.

By Folk_Hero (Folk_Hero) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 01:33 am: Edit

That's what I just said. Duh. It's a pretty predictable test. Of course you can prep for it. And the definition of intelligence is not limited to math. You can't tell someone with 800v and 550m that he does not posess a type of intelligence.

By Neo (Neo) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 07:49 pm: Edit

That's what I just said. Duh.

By Dkm (Dkm) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 04:35 pm: Edit

yo ppl...i am not saying everybody with a high IQ will get a high score..but there is a relative trend...anyway u guys r right..u can prep for it..even a person can do well without a low IQ if they study like hell and put a lot of effort...but the ppl who get 1500+ not complete idiots either...if u look at their IQ it would b a lot above the average..u really need something in ur head to even get over 1400+


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