GUILT OR REGRET?





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Discus: SAT/ACT Tests and Test Preparation: October 2003 Archive: GUILT OR REGRET?
By Rand0m (Rand0m) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Guilt or Regret?
That can be argued because the author was feeling regret because his feelings toward theater were no longer the same.
The definition of regret is:
1. To feel sorry, disappointed, or distressed about.
2. To remember with a feeling of loss or sorrow; mourn.
BUT the main purpose of the last sentence was to point out the fact that it was not the play that changed it was HIMSELF so he could not blame the actual play. This would be guilt:
a. Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.
b. Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing

By Hotgujugangsta (Hotgujugangsta) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:48 pm: Edit

GUILT because he says he blamed the actors at first for not enjoying the experienced. Then he says he it wasn't their fault it was his or something like that.

By Hotgujugangsta (Hotgujugangsta) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:48 pm: Edit

GUILT because he says he blamed the actors at first for not enjoying the experienced. Then he says he it wasn't their fault it was his or something like that.

By Rand0m (Rand0m) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:56 pm: Edit

I think we should complain to Collegeboard about this question.

By Hotgujugangsta (Hotgujugangsta) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:57 pm: Edit

What did he regret?

By Hotgujugangsta (Hotgujugangsta) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 04:57 pm: Edit

What did he regret?

By Rand0m (Rand0m) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

He regretted not feeling the same way about plays as he used to- with that exctasy and exticement. rather he said something like "i dont know what happened but now i am a rational person"
he said this in a sad way.
if he feels guilty about something by default he must feel something went wrong
this is what he would regret.

By Mischeljason (Mischeljason) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:18 pm: Edit

hah... I think I opted for a different answer....

By Prrfexi0n (Prrfexi0n) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:19 pm: Edit

He does not feel guilt...He acknowledges that the years have "wrought change in him" in the final sentence. He is stating the play has not changed but, but he is not bringing guilt upon himself. He feels disappointed by how he has changed over the years and how he can no longer experiance the drama in the way he used to.

By Prrfexi0n (Prrfexi0n) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Look at your definitions Rand0m. Did he do "something wrong." Was he involved with any "wrongdoing"? ...Nope.

By Thepiskickass (Thepiskickass) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Regrets the change.. Not guilt. Guilt implies that he hurt the actors, theater somehow. It's not as if he went up to the actors and said something like "You suck." Also. Did he lose his enchantment, or was he too sophisticated? Enchantment sounded right...

By Stanfordhopeful (Stanfordhopeful) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:23 pm: Edit

"To remember with a feeling of loss or sorrow; mourn"

In the passage, yes. BUT you have to look at it in context. IN THE FINAL PARAGRAPH he thinks it is HIS fault that the theater isn't as enchanting as it used to be. That is guilt, not regret.

By Prrfexi0n (Prrfexi0n) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:28 pm: Edit

He doesnt think it is his fault...That is where you are wrong. He does say that the play has not changed but that he had. However, he is not feeling guilty about having changed over the years.

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:30 pm: Edit

It's not guilt! This is a brilliant question that makes you determine the nuance of the story. Guilt implies he did something wrong. He didn't--he's upset because he aged and thus could no longer experience the world through the "eyes of a child"--full of awe.

He regrets having grown-up... and never being able to experience that again... remember that comment about how there is more difference between 6-16 than 16-86?

Michael

By Prrfexi0n (Prrfexi0n) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Very good, Mike. ;)

By Muawan (Muawan) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit

He feels guilty for growing up into what was he believed was wrong.

oh btw. Who was the devotee?

By Misterbobbit (Misterbobbit) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:13 pm: Edit

I said guilt.

Why?

He says that the theatre is not to blame for him not liking the play the 2nd time, but the blame is put on himself.

He's blaming himself. Therefore he's saying that HE IS guilty for not liking the theatre, not that the theatre is guilty for being bad or whatnot and him not liking it.

By Ahlawhd (Ahlawhd) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:26 pm: Edit

not its regret, he regrets that he grew up and doesnt like theater, he regrets the feeling from it. Not that hes guilty for growing up or something, thats hella funny

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:27 pm: Edit

It's not guilt! The author realizes that he no longer loves the theater as much as when he was six because of the inevitiability of growing up--he could no longer remain within the mentality of a six-year-old child forever...

Thus he looks back on it regretful that he grew up, but aware that there was nothing he could do to stop it.

Michael

By Greyaintacolor (Greyaintacolor) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:48 pm: Edit

vindication

By Techieguy (Techieguy) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:49 pm: Edit

The minute I saw the word "fault" in there, i put guilt.

By Arashf (Arashf) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:51 pm: Edit

vindication... he was vindicating the actors.

By Ahlawhd (Ahlawhd) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:57 pm: Edit

its regret

By Zephyrmaster2 (Zephyrmaster2) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Argh, this was a tough one for me...

I put guilt, but regret would work well!

ARGH! :)

By College (College) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:11 pm: Edit

I believe its regret. Vindicative is two extreme, and guilt may seem like the correct answer, but common sense says that why would he feel guilty that he has grown older?

By Arashf (Arashf) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:13 pm: Edit

i'm almost sure it's vindication, and I haven't missed any verbal questions...

he is freeing the actors from blame, bottom line.

it isn't clear wheteher it is guilt or regret, it just shifts the cause for her change in view.

By Saeef (Saeef) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:16 pm: Edit

REGRET!!!

He does not feel guilty for not fully understanding and not enjoying theater as much as he matured...he feels regret for not realizing this sooner. :)

let the bickering continue!

By Bluestar (Bluestar) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:20 pm: Edit

can someone repeat the question for me please? (for the guilt or regret question)

By Prrfexi0n (Prrfexi0n) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:21 pm: Edit

lol...vindication is ridiculous. I guarantee that isnt correct.

By Sprite04 (Sprite04) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Regardless of the CollegeBoard answer, they're gonna be alotta unhappy people...This might be challangeable....

Remember to check when you get your score report.

By Satsuki (Satsuki) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:32 pm: Edit

I put "guilt", not sure if that's the right answer though.

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 08:22 pm: Edit

I'm tempted to agree with standfordhopeful... it didn't ask what is the tone of lines blah-blahblah in relation to the entire passage... it asked, what is the tone of lines blah-blahblah... They include mention of the "fault" of blaming the actors for a less emotional/fascinating show to create the local tone properly... in this small section which they asked us to find the tone of, there is no mention of the whole passage, and presumably no knowledge of it... pretend you just read the lines about the actors and his faults in blaming them for the change in the show. i'll circle guilt... (btw vindication means to make right, or justify, and he never justifies blaming the actors, just shifts the blame)

By Ti89 (Ti89) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 08:47 pm: Edit

I put guilt, but now I'm not so sure about it.

By Gabypa (Gabypa) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:11 pm: Edit

I put regret first, for the tone definitely demonstrated a degree of longing, wistfulness... of his being unfulfilled and remembering the occasion with sorrow.

BUT, after re-reading the question, and looking better at the lines the question cited, I changed it to guilt.

Why? Well, I guess that I let myself be convinced by the verb "express" modifying "the lin-e" [singular! that kindda shows their emphasis on the LINE itself, i thought] of the question. After looking at that, I felt that the question was asking, perhaps, for a much less speculative interpretation of the question.I mean, if it had, it would have used a verb like "implies" or "suggests" or "intimates," which is much more speculative than the rather objective "express." This is how I decided that I felt that the question rather hinted at a more "factual" interpretation.
So my mind then followed the same thought process Stanfordhopeful described.

So I un-bubbled regret and un-bubbled guilt, even if half of me kept thinking on the importance of "tone." The other half of me, though, impelled me to make this change. It told me, "yes, guilt exists in different degrees, it does not only refer to a form of incrimination."

BUT you know what?

Who knows?

We won't ever know.

I'm pissed at the question, though.

By Ricefry (Ricefry) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:41 pm: Edit

i usually score around 750-800 verbal. regret works much better in the context of the question and i am about 85% sure its correct.

By Arashf (Arashf) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

umma... not way off

vindication is clearly defined as a clearing of BLAME... what does she do in that sentence? clear the actors from blame for her changed perspective...

nobody directly answers this...

By Gabypa (Gabypa) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:47 pm: Edit

ricefry -

I do, too. Regret was my initial hunch feeling. Perhaps I was fooled. Who knows.

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit

This is straight off of dictionary.com : "that serves to justify a claim or deed" - vindication... whoever it is never justifies the blame.

By Sandy (Sandy) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Meaning of 'vindicate' : (taken from Merriam-Webster)"to free from allegation or blame"

By Crypto86 (Crypto86) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit

I put regret. I as well was going back and forth between guilt and regret. I at first had guilt because the author was feeling despondent about how the plays didn't affect him anymore like they used to. However, I will paraphrase a part of the passage that no one else has yet. Why did this change arise? It was because during his six year hiatus from the play, he had been surrounded by numerous amounts of outside sources as analysis of plays. Because of this, he no longer is excited about plays anymore. Therefore, since he was bombarded by society's values, it wasn't his fault that his own values changed - so therefore I had regret.

But now as I look over it again, couldn't one person state that it was the author's own fault for not "tuneing-out" from society's values - thus he would have guilt. I still say regret is the "best" answer (which is the one advocated by CB). However, many people will throw in the red flag here. I'd say that we all recap the question and send something to College Board. Also, whoever paid for score report, definately post CB's answer.

By Smoldyr (Smoldyr) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit

regret

By Sandy (Sandy) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit

I did not take the test and am not supporting any answer. I was merely providing a meaning to a word.

By Sandy (Sandy) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit

I did not take the test and am not supporting any answer. I was merely providing a meaning to a word.

By Sandy (Sandy) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit

I did not take the test and am not supporting any answer. I was merely providing a meaning to a word.

By Culov (Culov) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:00 pm: Edit

I too put vindication. I dont understand why it would be either regret or guilt. Someone can't regret growing up since regret involves purposely doing something. One does NOT PURPOSELY GROW UP. Nature can not be regretted. Well at least that was my reasoning...

Just wondering... what was the other choice other than vindication, guilt, and regret?

By Rand0m (Rand0m) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:20 pm: Edit

I sent a letter to collegeboard. Maybe we'll get a response.

By Culov (Culov) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:28 pm: Edit

The question has to be dropped... there are three answers which have rational explanations. Its really sad that after getting so much funding, and support, that they cant eliminate questions like this...

By Gabypa (Gabypa) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Random, put my name under your letter. Maybe if we get a lot of signatures, it will be better.

I back the CollegeBoard calling option, guys.

By Crypto86 (Crypto86) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Yeah, definately. Never since I have been here has a single question gotten so much debate over. I mean, think about it. We have our usuals here (Jason817 and others) and they usually agree on the hard ones and even they are debating bigtime. I will definately support any petition to CB. My email is

Putting e-mail addresses or screen names in posts is a violation of the terms of service. Repeat offenders will be banned.

--Moderator Obiwan


So if you are sending something to CB, let me know.

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:54 pm: Edit

People... stop quoting from the passage, the tone of those few lines develop independant of anything else the author says. It is an autonomous unit of literature! ;p

if you scratched out the rest of the lines of the whole passage, would you say that he regretted or felt guilt?

By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:56 pm: Edit

I will definately support any attempt to invalidate this ••••••• question. Post the instructions and I will readily comply.

College Confidential Unite in our Holy Struggle against the Evil Monopoly.

By Gabypa (Gabypa) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:05 pm: Edit

LOL!

Gneugen, that is EXACTLY what I did and WHY I ended up changing my answer, as I explained before.

IF I read into the question with the context in mind, I choose REGRET.

IF I take the line out of context (as the question suggested) and evaluate it that way (syntactically speaking), I choose GUILT.

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:12 pm: Edit

hehe. im watching my score plummet as these seemingly straightforward queestions become beasts on here.. time to get away ;p

By Rsxman (Rsxman) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:57 pm: Edit

ok...u guys sure the word is vindication/vindicate or whatever?

because I thought I saw the word vindictive...which means...vengeful.


i dont remember clearly, but i swear i saw vindictive...or is that for another passage...

By Captcalculus (Captcalculus) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 12:05 am: Edit

he REGRETS that overtime, he doesnt extract the same satisfaction from plays. that is what the whole passage is about; it is not about him feeling bad about himself for that. why else would the story include the contrasting 6 year old recount?

By Howdydoody (Howdydoody) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 01:17 am: Edit

What was the question and what was thne sentence it refrenced?

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 01:19 am: Edit

captcalculus... i think that's why its gonna be a level 5.. its not asking for you to put the tone of the whole passage. It's saying, put the tone of these lines. "these lines" had nothing to do with regret as his childhood was unknown in their independant context.

By Entropie (Entropie) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 01:41 am: Edit

ehm...who was the devotee for that one? was it I and II (6 yr old and person from 1st passage?) i kind of ran out of time and chose that one because it vaguely made sense...

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 01:44 am: Edit

yeah.. i took devotee to mean the kind of boy that he was, so obvioulsy the author when 6. When you compare him to the boy in the other story, they are similar in that they are fascinated by the theatre. Fascination comes from an appreciation of the art and an eventual loss of it due to rationality. So, since author 1 never mentioned losing his love for the theatre, he is included, but the old version of the second author is not included since he became rational, and therefore unfascinated.

By Tarrasq (Tarrasq) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 02:48 am: Edit

WOOOOOOOOO VINDICATION!
this thread is ridiculous.
get over it. Its one question. and by the way its vindication im certain.
because the question addresses only the last sentence, there is no guilt in the paragraph, and there is no regret expressed in the last paragraph. the author only frees the actors on stage from blame for his decreased fascination with theater.
Vindicate - To clear of accusation, blame, suspicion, or doubt with supporting arguments or proof.

By Asndfkas (Asndfkas) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 02:51 am: Edit

I sent an explanatory email to Collegeboard with some of the arguments you posted here earlier today. Once I recieve thier response, I'll be sure to notify you.
Let's face it: english is a subjective language. Questions like this are unexceptable. I mean I'm not saying that all SAT questions have to be straightfoward, but there are other ways of creating tricky questions. This question was merely a question of if you knew what the writer of the question was thinking. (of course I didnt tell CB this, but I do feel this way)
Anyway, even if the response that comes back is not as we might hope, I'm not willing to give up right away.
I'd really like it if some of you compiled your arguments so I could present it to them if nesessary. Either way, I'll keep you posted.
Good luck to everyone!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 02:57 am: Edit

Culov, a note: from either the "real world" or from a literary standpoint, one can certainly "regret" growing up. Your assertion contrariwise can not be sustained.

By Asndfkas (Asndfkas) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 02:58 am: Edit

Tarrasq , I think you need to calm down. No one is insulting or attacking you, and everyone has a right to challenge an opinion. I can't see your argument that "vindiction" is so clear, when the other arguments are quite reasonable.

By Tarrasq (Tarrasq) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 03:02 am: Edit

sorry asndfkas, that message was written on a whim. im pretty tired. i was more entertained writing that message than i was upset. in fact i wasnt upset at all.

and by the way, you know the answer is vindication ;)

By 31337 (31337) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 03:31 am: Edit

I'm 110 % sure that the word was vindictive AND NOT VINDICATE !

By Yumpop (Yumpop) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 04:50 am: Edit

it was vindication. I sat and looked at it and remembered how yesterday I was studying vindictive v. vindication.

By Asndfkas (Asndfkas) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 01:31 pm: Edit

vindication fits, but its not being emphasized. it's just something thats happening during the passage. The regret is being emphasized throughout the whole passage and it ties into the main point. However, that line in particular reveals a degree of guilt.

By Xdebugger (Xdebugger) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 07:13 pm: Edit

In American Heritage Dictionary:
regret n.
1. A sense of loss and longing for someone or something gone.
2. A feeling of disappointment or distress about something that one wishes could be different.
He wanted back the fascination he had toward plays, so I think it's REGRET

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 07:22 pm: Edit

You guys,
Why is this such a big deal? I am surprised at the controversy over this and the "petty" question---I thought both answers were pretty obvious---but really, it's only one question and they won't specifically tell you which answer was right when they send you your scores, so why worry? Is there actually a way to find out what the correct answer was?

By Escaria (Escaria) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 08:02 pm: Edit

shrugs- it never really occured to me whether i should've chosen guilt or regret

actually i thought this was a pretty straight-forward question

there was really no guilt for the author to feel
he's sorry that he grew up, he's regretting it etc. :P

oh and btw- there is no way in hell it could've been vindication ;)

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

The answer was not vindication; nor was it guilt. The answer WAS regret. You people are unable to discern the subtle nuances of the English language. You think reasoning your way out of an answer will somehow correct it.

This isn't MATH--you can't buy a book and learn tricks to get around having to know things. This is Verbal where it takes intelligence.

You need to stop being so anal and accept that you were not smart enough to get a problem right. You can adulterate any word into fitting the passage; however, you must find the "best" answer. The best answer was REGRET.

By Escaria (Escaria) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 08:48 pm: Edit

*applauds mika*
hehe- exactly

guys- you can't study for verbal
heck- sure memorize all the vocab you want, but if you're not an avid reader, well what can i say ;)

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Exactly ESCARIA. How many of these people actually read on a regular bases? I think it's almost pathetic how people sit and memorize vocabulary lists--and then still do poorly on the SAT because they have no idea how to figure out what is implied as opposed to what is explicity expressed "I looked in those last two lines and it said it was his fault. I put guilt." Rather than actually inferring from the passage an overwhelming sense of loss--of regret that he had to grow into an adult.

I also found all of the passages (except the Iriquois one) to be very interesting; especially the last passage about the "avid reader." It's amazing how people have questions over straightforward questions like "Was the tone of the paragraph thoughtful or combative?" "She left grad school because she'd have made an inadequate student."-- amazing how people felt she would make a "petty" student.

I guess I'm rambling because I find the irony in that the majority of people who do well in math have no real mathematical ability--they're just obsessive freaks who desire to go to the most prestigious colleges--yet remain completely vapid. However, for those few who can succeed in the verbal area, I commend you--for you are the true scholars.

Michael

By Stanfordhopeful (Stanfordhopeful) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Wow Smartmika, you have your head really far up your own ass.

"Exactly ESCARIA. How many of these people actually read on a regular bases? I think it's almost pathetic how people sit and memorize vocabulary lists--and then still do poorly on the SAT because they have no idea how to figure out what is implied as opposed to what is explicity expressed "I looked in those last two lines and it said it was his fault. I put guilt."

Oh please. Quite a few of us read regularly and are capable doing quite well without reading lists. The people who post on this site are an intelligent, dedicated bunch. Oh and the question specifically asks about his feelings in the last passage and I am quite confident that he expresses regret. No amount of denigration via yourself will ever change that opinion, and we may never know who is "right" anyway, so calm down.

"I guess I'm rambling because I find the irony in that the majority of people who do well in math have no real mathematical ability--they're just obsessive freaks who desire to go to the most prestigious colleges--yet remain completely vapid. However, for those few who can succeed in the verbal area, I commend you--for you are the true scholars."

...and?

So everyone who does well in math is an obsessive freak and those who do well in verbal are geniuses? Excellent logic. Completely unsubstantiated and most certainly erroneous, but if it satisfies you, then I don't have a problem with it.

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Naw, i didn't memorize any vocab, i never finish books... if you watch enough talk shows you could ace the reading part of the SAT, as long as you can read. Being an avid reader, well, that'll make you end up like the woman in the passage, and while you might see that as a plus, she's feckless to the purpose of higher thinking and betterment of mankind. But that's not the topic so let me ask, are we positive what the question was? Local tones are distinct from the rest of the page, but "purpose of the lines()" are not. Anyone got a nice photographic memory? $^)

By Oniyate (Oniyate) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 10:35 pm: Edit

Hey Smartmika, shove a chicken up your ass. you have no idea what type of $hit you are coughing up. The only reasons people are here are to check if their answer for the test is correct and to help another. What you are doing is needlessly insulting everyone who is reading this trend and claiming that they are stupid. Well guess what, learn some f-ing manners because if you bring that attitude to your college interview, you are gonna be booted out on your ass.
People memorize vocabulary lists because they have the will and a dream. A dream to go and make something of themselves. I guess you don't have that with your idiotic self-destructive attitude. There is no reason to debate over trivial things such as this. What does one question count on the SAT? Not alot. It ain't gonna make a difference. By arguing the topic senselessly, you're just beating a dead horse. Instead we'll probably have more fun by arguing on what your character consists of...

By the way, it's guilt.

By Bsarnold (Bsarnold) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 10:47 pm: Edit

I concur

By Student9 (Student9) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit

There is fault involved:

She says:

It wasn't the actors fault, it was her fault.

From this, why would she be regretful? THere is nothing to regret, she has not done anything to be regretful of.

She feels guilt in herself for not enjoying the play as much.

stupidmika, You are underqualified and undeserving of a good University, so don't worry about scoring good.

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 12:15 am: Edit

Stanford--I agree that the correct answer is regret.

And I think it great that you're an actual "good" student--you read and are knowledgeable.

Oniyate... My opinion is that the SATs are unfair; if people are able to prepare completely (you cannot say someone who spends 1000 dollars to take a course is on the same level as someone who can only afford to purchase a book on the topic), then it does not show college aptitude.

I simply believe that Verbal is superior to math in the way the test is created. The math section is far to easy to cheat on (such as with programmable calculators... that will do formula manipulation). I feel that people who excel at Verbal greatly deserve it for it shows that they can "read into" situations. I'm not saying that anyone who does well on Math is inferior (I know lots of people who are superior to me mathematically and thus fare better than I do on the SAT); I'm simply expressing my opinion that the manner in which the Verbal section is written is more fair and more representative of one's actual abilities.

Who'd have thought I'd •••• off so many people?

Student 9- First of all, the person wasn't female. You don't feel "guilt" that you don't enjoy something as much... "guilt" implies that the person did something wrong. The six-year-old boy grew up into a 16-year-old and realized that the difference between 6 and 16 is greater than that between 16-86. At the age of 6, the author wasn't able to understand everything--the curtain and the building all had magical qualities to it. At the age of 16, he was more sophisticated and was no logner able to appreciate the play as he did when he was a child. He grew up--which was an inevitability--thus he had no active choice. He looks back (as an adult) upon his childhood experience with awe--and a sad understanding that he lost that as he aged.

Think about watching a movie you loved as a child and realizing how crappy it was. You don't feel guilty that you don't like it anymore, you just realize that when you are a child it was better because you had not been exposed to the amount of things you were now. Then you reflect upon it--regretting that you had to age; however, you don't feel guilty for you did nothing wrong.

Michael

By Student9 (Student9) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 01:51 am: Edit

Read my post once more, CRITICALLY this time.

He/She does not regret growing up, she feels guilty because it was not the actors' fault, but hers/his for not being able to enjoy the show.

You don't have to make up B.S. to reply.

Just let it go.

You lose.

By Lvlike86 (Lvlike86) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 02:13 am: Edit

student9 wins

By Freudboy (Freudboy) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 02:42 am: Edit

There is no reason for him to feel guilt. His growing up and becoming more rational was a natural part of growing up. However, he DOES regret his not being able to be fascinated by the theatre as much as when he was a child

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Freudboy is correct. LoL isn't Student 9 on quite a high horse?

Surely you do not fully comprehend the meaning of "guilt" as opposed to "regret." This was a straightforward question with "guilt" thrown in as a trap.

It wasn't HIS (not her's!!!) (obviously if you can't even make that blatant distinction, your answer choices are dubious) fault that he didn't enjoy the play as much; he grew up which was inevitable. Remember, he is writing this at the age of (presumably) over 86. He's reflecting upon his life.

Reasoning your way out of an incorrect answer will not make it correct.

Michael

By Tylerf0 (Tylerf0) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 02:34 pm: Edit

lol, the answer was obviously regret. i don't know why the discussion has continued this long O_o

By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 03:39 pm: Edit

Smartmika, I was reading over the answers to the questions in the 800+ sat thread, and am 100% sure you made at least one error in verbal. You may still get the coveted 800, but you definately are not flawless.
In the play passage, you put the answer to a question as, "He wanted the villain to get off the stage." That does not make any sense. The answer to that one is that the author found the play to be real (or something to that effect). Why would the author want the villain off the stage? That is not supported by the passage at all. What the passage does say is that the author wanted the villain caught because he wanted the play to have a happy ending. The reason the outcome of the play matters so much to the author is that he is deeply involved in the play to the extent where he has trouble differentiating between fact and fiction.
This is one instance where your supposed critical reading skills aquired from years of being a recluse backfired.

By Asndfkas (Asndfkas) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Tylerf, how is it so damn "obvious"

I think instead of arguing in favor of whatever we happened to scramble on that grid in the few minutes we had, we should embrace the fact that this question was very subjective.

THERE WAS vindication, guilt and REGRET.
Yet, vindication was not exactly the tone, guilt is too strong of a word, and one cannot regret growing up.

So which one is it? or is it niether?
That's not the point. The whole question is screwed up and does not belong on this SAT.

And, no, it's not because we're all "ignorant" and can't see the true meaning behind the passage. It's because the answer is obscure.
ANY good reader would know that reading is subjective and everyone comes out with a different impression after they read the same story.

By Student9 (Student9) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 05:52 pm: Edit

"LoL isn't Student 9 on quite a high horse? "

Where do you come up with such dry humor?

GODDAMMIT!!

growing up is not the @$%@^&! issue here! read the $@%^*@$@, @^%@(*&^#% ! passage and my previous post critically!

The issue is this:

She went to a play and first blamed the actors for not enjoying, then she realized that it was her FAULT and not the actors' FAULT. That is why she feels GUILTY for not being able to enjoy the show, age or why she felt the way she did is irrelevant, and that could be a different question, but the author feels guilt in herself.

I don't know how or why you are throwing in stuff about age being inevitable. Age has nothing to do with the %^@*(@! question.

The question asks what she feels, not why she feels that way.

I have wasted enough time you stupidmika. You are an arrogant little nerd, who probably can't sleep without knowing answers.

YOU LOSE.

Who loses?

I. smartmika

a. I
b. I
c. I
d. I
e. I

That's right, YOU LOSE.

nerd. meep meep, beep negatory meep beep.

By Justice (Justice) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:05 pm: Edit

I don't see what the problem is. They pointed you directly to a line in the passage, did they not? Usually when they give you line numbers, they expect you to treat the line as if it existed in a vacuum. In such a case, it's obvious that guilty makes more sense than regret.
Obviously he feels regret in the passage. You could even venture to assert that regret is the theme of the passage. However, in that particular line, there was a lot more textual evidence for guilt than regret. No offense smartmika, but I get 800s in verbal, and SAT verbal doesn't exactly require too much knowledge of the subtle nuances of English. It's more of an exercise in using precise textual evidence than anything else.

By Kwiktrix123 (Kwiktrix123) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Argh......ok......it said that the theater people were not to blame<<<<The word blame is in it...

Guilt! Guilt!

By Mk1o3o (Mk1o3o) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:11 pm: Edit

"lol, the answer was obviously regret. i don't know why the discussion has continued this long O_o"

who knows in the end?? Only ETS knows and they will mail you your score so stop being so cocky to everyone who feels they are omniscient. We can only make conjectures here because no one has the answer key in front of them.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:58 pm: Edit

One can most certainly regret growing up.

Student9, if the text is as you get it...and obviously I have not seen the test itself...then I believe "regret" is correct.

I think getting hung up on whose "fault" it was is red herring, as is the notion of "blame." One does not feel "guilty" if one doesn't enjoy a show even if it is one's "fault." One would feel guilty, perhaps, if one had done something to cause the show to not be enjoyable but growing up is something that happens to one, not something that one actively does.

The word that I would transpose most naturally into the text and situation is "wistful," which leans very heavily towards "regret."

"Vindication" does not fit at all, e.g., turning out to be right when everything earlier pointed to you being wrong.

All fwiw.

By 4grl (4grl) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 07:36 pm: Edit

Guilt :)

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 07:42 pm: Edit

Student 9--surely I'm not the only one who is amused by his/her dramatic responses.

It's a test... it's not an "I Win!!" situation. It's also essentially pointless to argue over the question (although I hope this test will later be released... because I'd like to finally come to the proper conclusion).

I'm not claiming to be brilliant, nor do I claim to fully comprehend everything; however, I thought that this passage was very much straightforward, as was the question.

I agree that the best word for the article is "wistful." Regret is the only word that properly fit.

PS- Student 9, the author of that passage was male. Haven't you already been chastised?

Michael

By Student9 (Student9) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 07:45 pm: Edit

I don't believe this.

This is a waste of my time.

Yes, one can regret growing up and say that it is inevitable, but this is a line reference question that asks how he/she feels after she stated that the fault and blame was hers!

This is my last post about this topic.

Believe whatever you want, because I no longer care. Fault and blame are not associated with regret!

Just read the lines it reffered you to. It is so obvious! Treat the line as if it was in a vacuum!


Justice, your approach is correct, but you have basically said: It is regret because it is regret, even the theme can be regret.

You have state evidence.

WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG ISSUE???

ACCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU LOST A POINT!

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 08:13 pm: Edit

The question wanted what was implied in the sentences. Regret was implied; guilt was the trap choice.

But who knows, I might be wrong--but I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt it.

Michael

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 08:17 pm: Edit

i vote guilt. i remember thinking about it for at least a minute and a half. it seemed more "guilt" than "regret"

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 08:58 pm: Edit

I may or may not have any regret over Student9's departure from this thread but I shall have no guilt, not that this vindicates my point of view.

By Crypto86 (Crypto86) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 09:34 pm: Edit

haha =P

By Justice (Justice) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

The question did not ask for an implied judgment. I remember this exactly because I finished that verbal section 15min early and checked every RC to make sure I didn't mess up. Very rarely will a test like the SAT ask for anything implied in the text, and if they do, they will make certain that you realize it. Look over some passages; they will ALWAYS have the word "imply" in the question and the question "in question" certainly did not.

With that being said, I think that the common-sense reader will assume that since regret is such a big part of the passage, the answer to that question will obviously be regret. The trap is following your gut feeling as opposed to what is said in the text. The question was really a very specific one. I earnestly believe that this is a level 5 question and the fact that so many people answered regret is a good indication that the majority is wrong.
We'll see though. I'd just like to say that "being really really seriously totally sure" isn't a valid reason.

By Crypto86 (Crypto86) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

In regards to this, who ordered a score report to find the ETS answer for this and post it when they get it?

By Matlm (Matlm) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 09:47 pm: Edit

I totally agree with Justice. As i posted earlier, level 5 questions are only answered correctly by less than 10% of the people taking the test. Less than 10 percent of the people here are saying guilt.

By Crypto86 (Crypto86) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit

Yeah - that definately does make sense. And as I was going back and forth between regret and guilt for about a minute, obviously both have cases for them. I'm still sticking with regret (as I believed the speaker was regretful for letting society affect him (or her) so much that he/she did not enjoy the theatre anymore). But still, that could be turned over to he/she having guilt for himself/herself for letting society have an affect on he/she - so it works either way.

By Whatever17 (Whatever17) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit

well...the stats arent correct...most ppl on college confidential are overachievers...face it. You wont find the average student with 1000 SAT score on a forum about college. No?

By Justice (Justice) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 10:01 pm: Edit

For those of you who have a one-dimensional definiton of guilt as definitely having to do with wrongdoing, consider this: a man rents and watches a short film in a room full of his close friends, and in the film a brutal rape scene of a little girl is shown. His friends feel outraged and angry, and the man does too. Howeve, he watches it by himself again the next night and feels aroused and enjoys the short film, but since all his friends are angry, he feels guilty because of his feelings. Any problems with this? Anyone want to argue that he actually feels regret?
--> let's apply it to this passage: the author fullheartedly wants to appreciate the theater production; that's why he went back expecting so much. This is an evident truth that everyone should have picked up on, since it is a crucial point of the arguments for both guilt and regret. However, he has changed. Let's be clear here; he speaks in first-person, talking about how it is his fault and not the actor's or the play's. The fact that others around him and the actors themselves can appreciate the play shows that he is in an environment in which he can feel guilt similar to the first example I gave. I hope the connection has been made...don't know how legit this argument is since I just sorta thought of it and kept typing.

By Asndfkas (Asndfkas) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 11:11 pm: Edit

Tell that to the ETS when you find out Guilt was the right answer.
You can try to convince us all you want, but you can't because everyone is standing behind thier own answer. It seems more like you're trying to convince yourself.

By Smartmika (Smartmika) on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 01:28 am: Edit

Exactly asndfkas. It's a question. I still feel the answer was regret... but we won't know until the test is eventually (if ever) released.

Michael

By Gneugen (Gneugen) on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 02:26 am: Edit

I've said it a few times up above... I'm pretty sure that the question is directed at a few lines, not their relation to the passage. If you look at those lines in relation to the passage, they devlope the regretful tone HEAVILY. BUT, individually, the lines indicated guilt. Vindication seems to mean justification of the self, as in for one's personal actions, especially when being written in the first person. He was not vindicated for having accused the actors of screwing up his experience. He didn't feel better for the actors. If the question asked for local tone, guilty = answer. If it asked for lines in relation to the passage, regret is my choice. Final answer ;p

By Ohbilly2134 (Ohbilly2134) on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 04:17 pm: Edit

I put regret...it's definitely regret!!

By Yalie08 (Yalie08) on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 05:40 pm: Edit

I put guilt, but i tend to think it was regret. Mabye I'm just being pessimistic


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