|By Megofou (Megofou) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 12:57 pm: Edit|
This is freaky.
|By Vadim (Vadim) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit|
Taking a school hostage is absolutely despicable. I am not optimistic about the future of the people inside.
|By Vancat (Vancat) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:47 pm: Edit|
well, let's hope the MOscow Theater incident doesn't happen again.
|By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 03:33 pm: Edit|
Chechnya has long been a problem. The US/United Nations/NATO should have intervened a long time ago.
I still think they should. (Bush could have made a better Chechnya-Al qaeda case than with Iraq)
|By Vancat (Vancat) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 03:39 pm: Edit|
To anybody who knows:
Are there any major itnernational crises that the UN has successfully solved? Besides the token security forces it has sent to numerous hotspots around the globe, I'm having trouble recalling the UN having any major success recently.
I could be wrong. Someone enlighten me.
|By Titanz05 (Titanz05) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 06:47 pm: Edit|
Anyone seen the movie 'Toy Soldiers' ?
A prep school taken hostage by some faction, and the boys all come together and put away their differences and beat the bad guys.
|By Thinkingoutloud (Thinkingoutloud) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:53 pm: Edit|
Can someone explain what they are fighting over and make some suggestions about how to resolve this problem? I really don't know enough about the issue yet. Craigk10, you got any info? Anyone else?
|By Iplayoboe (Iplayoboe) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 09:18 pm: Edit|
Chechnyains want autonomy from Russia. I dont know the particular dates, but they were conquered by Russia at some point, and when the USSR desolved, they said they would never grant autonomy to any area conquered before a certain date (again, no particulars, sorry) and Chechnya was a pre-date conquest. At one point, Stalin had marched every single Chechan to forced labor camps in Siberia, (every single one) but he later, (or somebody) later agreed to let them go home. Since then, theyve been really peeved at the Russians who have always hated the ethnic Chechyans.
i feel for them wanting autonomy, but i dont agree with their methods of self expression.
|By Thinkingoutloud (Thinkingoutloud) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 09:53 pm: Edit|
Iplayoboe, thanks for your post. From what I understand, the people in Chechnya are in the process of electing a new President. It seems the prior Presidents keep getting killed. If they can elect a President, isn't that sufficient autonomy or is the election somehow suspect?
|By Vadim (Vadim) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:00 pm: Edit|
As far as I know, animosity between the Chechens and Russians has existed for centuries. Stalin deported the Chechens for alleged collaboration with the Nazis. To my knowledge, they were actually moved to Central Asia, and not to forced labor camps.
The Chechens currently have an autonomous republic, which is a part of Russia, though with a separate president, their own official language, and their own education system. However, Chechen separatists want an independent nation.
If the Chechen separatists hope to gain support through their actions, they are insane, though the international coverage of the two wars seems to be strongly biased against the Russians. The country, like many others is composed of countless small ethnic groups, and if each were to demand its independence from its current country, the industrialized world would cease to exist.
|By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit|
Chechnya is a muslim enitiy of Russia... they are located very close to the middle east and relate much more to those surrounding countries than Russia.
as Boe said, the fight is basically over the Chechens wanting autonomy from Russia.
The United Nations and the United States used to consider the Chechen's freedom fighters and thus never bothered to intervene.
We now however consider them terrorists and they have proven to have close links to al qaeda.
You guys probably remeber the Moscow theatre inncident (hbo had a special on it)....they were also responsible for a train station bombing or something (cant really remember)
The Chechen's are notorious for using woman to carry out their acts. Women played a big role in the Moscow theatre tragedy as well as this recent double plane crash. Two Chechen woman, bought plane tickets for the two planes that crashed the day before the plane took off. Their bodies went unclaimed I believe.
It's time for someone to do something. If the Chechen's get their hands on a nuke they will almost certainly use it
|By Irchik13 (Irchik13) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 01:19 am: Edit|
Scubasteve, you're absolutely right. The Chechens want autonomy, but Russia will not give it to them, rightly so, for numerous reasons. It is a sad and hopeless situation. The thing is that there is no solution to it whatsoever...unfortunately. All of this will go on long into this century. It is the century of terrorism.
|By Shortcakefairy (Shortcakefairy) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 04:04 am: Edit|
All I know is there is no excuse for the terrorist tactics they are using...I would have MUCH MORE sympathy for their cause if they proved themselves the victims and not estranged children killers.
Same with the Palestinian situation. I agree w/ their cause, jsut not how they're fighting for it. And that's why i stay totally neutral on the Mid-East conflict.
Needless to say, terrorism jsut gets more and more disturbing.
|By Yugekorb (Yugekorb) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 06:55 am: Edit|
Things like this have been happening since around 1995 in Russia. I can't find the timeline, it was on yahoo. They had taken several other places hostage with many more people, upwards of 2,000. In none of the incidents were all of the hostages purposely killed. We all know what happened with Moscow Theatre, 2 or so died from the Chechens and the rest from the gas. I have faith that they'll be talked down and none of the children will die, can't be sure about the adults. Putin obviously won't give in. He was elected based on his promise to crush the rebels. To give in would be a huge embarrasment for Putin and the Russians abroad and at home. Don't expect this stuff to stop until someone else becomes Russia's President.
I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that the Chechen presidents have been puppets for the Russians, because Chechen rebels assassinated him. One of the former presidents was in Kuwait, or UAE or Bahrain, one of those countries and his son was killed during an assassination attempt of the former pres.
Anybody watch The Grid? Kaz was from Chechnya.
|By Yugekorb (Yugekorb) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 06:57 am: Edit|
I was disturbed yesterday when they had a bus bombing story in Israel (killed 10 or so) on Channel One, but they didn't even mention this. I'm not saying one is worse than the other, but they can still mention it.
|By Irchik13 (Irchik13) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 05:13 pm: Edit|
Yugerkorb, yep, that's how it is. I'm Russian and live in the US and I was stunned when the theatre incident happened and the US barely mentioned anything about it on the news.
The thing with the Chechens is that they don't want to purposely kill the children/hostages. It's not their goal. Their goal is to attract attention to the cause, because the world has pretty much forgotten about the Chechen war since the "war on terrorism" began. They want to call attention to the conflict and let the world know that nothing has been resolved and that they are still oppressed by the Russian government. They want sympathy.
However, I do not see how they will achieve sympathy for their cause with such actions. On the contrary, all of the major organizations in the world condemn what they have done.
|By Yugekorb (Yugekorb) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 05:51 pm: Edit|
I am very glad to see how calmly you react to see your country in crisis. It would be very difficult for many of us to react the way you do and see their point of view as well. Your statement reflects very highly of you.
I didn't expect this to happen the way it did. It still seems a little unclear about what exactly happened. According to that article, 20 or so (adult males) were executed and roughly 200 others died, but doesnt say if they were from an exchange of gunfire from both sides or whether they were all executions. The article on yahoo was much more vague. I feel for those that died, naturally. It will be interesting(no disrespect) to see what unfolds after this, if Putin backs down (yeah right), drops a nuke on Grozny (or whatever's left of it), or sends in 100,000 more troops.
Irchik, do you know much about the Chechen militants? Do they have a militia and then there are also Al-Qaeda related terrorists, or are they all this type of militants?
(Anybody think this will finally get coverage?)
|By Shortcakefairy (Shortcakefairy) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 05:53 pm: Edit|
yeah i'm totally sympathetic to their cause...but just like with the palestinians, i can't accept their methods of fighting for their cause and getting attention.
the theater and school-hostage thing was absolutely inexcusable.
WE need another Gandhi in the world.
|By Matth (Matth) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 06:00 pm: Edit|
Yukegorb, I don't know why you think this is getting no coverage. It's been on CNN and Headline News non-stop for days, and in every major newspaper. As was the story on the planes crashing and the subway bombing in Russia.
|By Yugekorb (Yugekorb) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 06:05 pm: Edit|
I meant on Channel One at school. If you read my previous thread, you would have known that.
|By Matth (Matth) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 10:01 pm: Edit|
I read your previous comment (not thread) and saw you mention Channel One. However, in the comment I was replying to where you wondered if anyone thought this would finally get coverage, you did not specify that you meant coverage on Channel One. So don't be so obnoxious.
|By Iplayoboe (Iplayoboe) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 10:35 pm: Edit|
these people make me sick. murdering children to prove ones point is counter productive, it makes people focus on the fact that you are child murders instead of on your cause. sick sick sick. Most of the terrorists whose bodies were recovered were Arabic, (ie Al Qaeda.) according to BBC news which snuck film crews past the Russian boundries and filmed. they reported about constant gunfire, and massive explosions.
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