Political Sell-out???





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Discus: College Confidential Café: 2004 Archive: Political Sell-out???
By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:28 pm: Edit

My husband and I were just given free tickets and backstage passes to a concert. The group is ULTRA-liberal and I am a former ultra-liberal who has now swung the other way. Am I a sell-out if I go?

Note to Kerry supporters, if you respond, kindly tell me if you would go to an ULTRA-conservative Bush loving concert in the same curcumstances.

PS: The group is very famous and I like their music okay but don't own any of their CDs.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:36 pm: Edit

Well you wouldn't be going to listen to political speeches you would be going to a music concert.
Its a totally different thing. Don't you have friends that have different political views than you do? Don't you still get enjoyment out of their friendship?
If you like their music, you like their music.
Plus a backstage pass? How cool!
( It's not Rock the Vote is it?)
so disappointed they won't be in our area. Seattle-Tacoma is so liberal that when a local paper did a "best of" issue and asked for best local conservative the answer was "none"

By Simba (Simba) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:47 pm: Edit

Go. I would. Unless the content was liberal bashing or religious halla-luyas.

By Momof2005girl (Momof2005girl) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:49 pm: Edit

My husband and I saw Dave Matthews Band this past weekend. They are very pro-Kerry and we aren't. It didn't keep us from enjoying the great music. Same with a recent Bonnie Raitt concert. It may be a different story if the concert is one of the shows recently organized by the Kerry backers. Those concerts are definitely going to be political. Both DMB and Bonnie Raitt are participating in those concerts and I don't think that I would enjoy them as much as the ones that weren't politically affiliated.

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:49 pm: Edit

The challenge is I probably WILL be listening to political speeches because they are part of the "Vote for Change" Tour although this concert is not part of the tour I am certain the patter between songs will include many declarations of their political view.

BS passes no big deal-I have a sibling in the music industry and going bs, on the tour bus, etc - been there done that and almost don't go to concerts if I have further than a tenth row seat.

It is also my birthday and while I am excited to see the friend who works for the group [have NO idea what his politics are] grinding my molars and blowing the cholesteral out of my arteries is not a relaxing way to spend it.

The real question is whether I would be compromising my values & views to go.

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Momof2005- It's one of those two you mentioned! This is awesome, you can tell me, how much political talk did they do between songs???

You are my answer, thanks!

By Momof2005girl (Momof2005girl) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Believersmom - there was absolutely no political talk between songs just an evening of totally awesome music. We had some of your concerns prior to attending but it was not a problem.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 01:09 pm: Edit

vote for change That is what I meant not Rock the vote.
Pearl Jam, does ( well Eddie especially) go on sometimes about Bush, et al, but they are so good in concert that it is worth it.
I never was a big Pearl Jam fan, never had any of their albums but heard a dj go on and on so much about how excellent the concert performances were that I decided to go .
Ever since then I have gone to all the local concerts they have performed even a benefit in a smoky club ( and I hate smoke) for Crones disease. WOW

By Fundingfather (Fundingfather) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 01:11 pm: Edit

I would go and sit on my hands when the Bush bashing starts. Better to have someone there not clapping than someone screaming affirmations. It would be really cool if half the audience were like you and the message is sent that not everyone buys into the Bush bashing message.

You may even qualify for a purple heart if you go and put up with it.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Go, and at the end, pretend to storm out of the area in protest.

Oh, on a serious note, I think you should go since it could be entertaining. I would not worry about the message, especially if you consider the value of the source. I never quite understood why the entartainment industry believes that we ought to listen to the opinion of its members on anything. It's all part of publicity stunts and simply represent how delusional they are when it comes to their ego. As fars as I know, if they truly want to express their opinion and make it count, they ought to run for public office. The obvious problem is that they would not pass the simplest test of personal character and integrity. So, I just view them as the entertainers they are.

For instance, I still think Whoopi is pretty funny, but as far her individual opinion, I rank her between one of the Teletubbies and Babar. Humm, come to think about it, Babar did have a few lucid moments.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 01:15 pm: Edit

You may even qualify for a purple heart if you go and put up with it.

Yes, I heard that, at most concerts, they have a first aid kit with plenty of band-aids and a RN on staff.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Pretty much any large event is staffed with paramedics etc. They even have those defib kits at airports and shopping malls. It's a good idea.

By Aparent4 (Aparent4) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 01:26 pm: Edit

Go with your ears and mind open. Who knows how you might feel when you leave! Happy Birthday.

By Simba (Simba) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Go. But if you have any hidden agenda and planning to do some of the stuff suggested above - don't go.

That would be dishonest.

Are they requiring you to sign an affidavite to be a slave of the democratic party and JFK for eternity?

By Mini (Mini) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Xiggi - you've crossed over the line. I mean, insulting Teletubbies! next thing you know, you'll be kicking babies rather than kissing them.

Not good.

(I hope you fall in love with a granola-munching purple-haired, nose-ringed Scrippsie into squirrel protection so there!)

By Simba (Simba) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 02:25 pm: Edit

But he will get kudos from Falwell.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 02:32 pm: Edit

The only cases of requiring affadavits are support are for a number of Bush rallies, most recently one in New Mexico where someone filed a complaint in court to attend without doing so and lost. And, of course, people with anti-Bush t-shirt being escorted from the premises at other rallies. I can't decide whether they don't want any elements to disturb the images of Faux News or that Rove and company are keeping Bush in a bubble so that he's not aware of how many people really dislike him. He brags about not reading newspapers...probably thinks it makes him look like an authentic down home "real" American.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Hehe, Mini.

What if I had a profound affinity for the granola munching crowd, purple hair and all? If she let me cut the Sushi line, it will be the beginning of a great adventure. As far as the Teletubbies, they are not exactly eloquent, aren't they?

By the way, Simba, who is Falwell?

By Simba (Simba) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 02:58 pm: Edit

Falwell is a TV minister based in Virginia. He believes that teletubbies promote homosexuality. One of them is purple and they carry a purse.

Now please don't go after Barney.

By Songman (Songman) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 03:21 pm: Edit

I would go to the concert. I am an independent so it is easy for me to say. As a musician I listen to all the people listed in the above posts. I ignore most of them when they start up with the politics. And I do not think that they are hypocrites just because they are wealthy as heck but lean toward a liberal philosophy. However,people like Hill and Bill though tick me off with their $20 million in book advances,etc., while constantly espousing that public education is good for all as they sent Chelsea to a private high school. Bleeeeeeecccccccchhh!

No seriously being a moderate conservative I listen to NPR, Al Franken but also Laura Ingraham and read the WSJ. I like to hear both sides slug it out and hopefully I attempt to find the truth between the two.

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 03:39 pm: Edit

Thanks one and all.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 03:43 pm: Edit

Now please don't go after Barney.

I could not remember his name, so I typed Babar in my earliest post.

"I love you, you love me ..." Now, I'll have that silly ingrained in my head for the rest of the day. :)

By Momof2005girl (Momof2005girl) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Believersmom - if you go to the concert, let us know how it went. Also, happy birthday!

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 04:02 pm: Edit

Thank you! I am going, it's tomorrow night and I will let you know...

Xiggi-Here is a musical industry trick to get anoying songs out of your head: Visualize & "hear" Joe Cocker singing the song. [I hope you are not too young to know who he is ]

By Michuncle (Michuncle) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 04:42 pm: Edit

As part of the Liberal Democratic "fringe", I would encourage you and your husband to attend the concert.

If you are moved by the music, fine. If you are moved by the political message, better still. If the political message doesn't suit you, that's OK, too. We're Democrats, we "understand"...

Your question about attending a Pro-Bush concert is a fair one.

When the Dixie Chicks and Linda Ronstandt expressed their disaproval of President Bush's policies, they were pillared by Republicans as being unpatriotic. Radio stations refused to play their records or else they were booed off the stage.

Correct me, if I'm mistaken, but no Democrat ever called for people not to attend a Toby Keith concert. No Democrat ever asked people not to watch "Frasier" because Kelsey Grammer is a Republican and Bush suppporter.

Your comment about not owning any music cds by the group you and your husband are going to see and hear is like some kind of litmus test for your conservatism...

If I enjoy listening to Shostakovich, does that make me a Communist?

By Mini (Mini) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Probably.

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Michuncle-It was merely to explain that this is not some group who's music I like and listen to all the time.

BTW-You didn't answer the question so...same situation for you to go to a Toby Keith or better yet a Ted Nuggent concert. Would you go?

By Michuncle (Michuncle) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Wow! "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue" vs "Cat Scratch Fever". Born and raised in Michigan, I'm a fan of Terrible Ted!

My point is this: If I were a fan of Tobey Keith, I'd go to his concert. Terrible Ted is pro-Bush and a poster child for the NRA, but "Cat Scratch Fever" is forever! I maybe in the cheap seats, but I'm there. Then again, I've listened to the Dixie Chicks and they're OK, but I don't own any of their cds. That they hold a sympathetic political view is nice, but not enough of a reason for me to attend their concert or buy their music...

You go to a concert for the music. If politics outweigh the music, don't go.

Bruce Springsteen sings "American Skin/41 Shots" which gets a lot of boos from New York/New Jersey audiences. That song rubs a lot of his fans raw, but Bruce still fills the seats.

As for "Mini": All those years of voting for Gus Hall and Angela Davis has finally caught up with me!

By Tropicanabanana (Tropicanabanana) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 11:00 pm: Edit

Well, Xiggi you're not famous and have not been recognized in any way for anything, yet you contintually express your opinion. Why should famous people not express themselves and if you had a public venue because you were recognized for some talent, would you silence yourself?

By Robyrm (Robyrm) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 11:37 pm: Edit

"It was merely to explain that this is not some group who's music I like and listen to all the time."

I think the bigger question is why on earth would you go to any concert if it is not music you enjoy to begin with?

Years ago my parents, then in their 50's attended a Janis Joplin concert at the urging of a son of a friend of theirs. They listened to a record in advance, decided they liked enough and wouldn't be offended by what they heard, and had a grand time on their "sociological dig" (as my father later proclaimed). The highlight, evidently was a discussion between my mother, a cigarette smoker, and the marijuana smoker behind her.

I don't think they felt they were selling out- attending the concert of someone whose belief system was not entirely consistent with their own, but I know they were curious, and this was rewarded by a wee bit more.....openmindedness!

And as for myself, a liberal leaning person, I once very much enjoyed an Amy Grant concert in her "Christian rocker" days!! Not so political, but clearly with an agenda other than my own.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 12:30 am: Edit

All I would suggest is that you don't ruin other audience members' experience by snorting and whining about the pro-Kerry talk. It's not like you are unaware of what you would be getting into.

By Kluge (Kluge) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 12:47 am: Edit

It is interesting to me that Republicans are actively selling the concept that it's best not to expose oneself to views which are not in accord with your present beliefs. We've had numerous posts where parents ask how to avoid sending their kids to "liberal" colleges. More posts which express the opinion that "liberal" faculty are unfairly imposing their views on students, etc. And criticising Fahrenheit 9/11 without having actually seen it seems to be a badge of honor which is actively flaunted.

This is a website for smart people, OK? I viewed the "Swift Boat Veterans for 'Truth'" ad; I listen to Rush Limbaugh (when I can stomach it), I read conservative newspaper columnists almost every day. I've never had anyone on the left suggest that it's a bad idea. And honestly, up until ten or fifteen years ago I don't remember those on the right doing so, either. This fear of exposure to "unauthorized" thoughts seems to be new. These days, it seems like Xiggi is the only self-avowed conservative who dares tread in the land of liberal expression.

What's up?

By Simba (Simba) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 10:25 am: Edit

There is still a hope for Xiggi

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 10:36 am: Edit

I would definitely go to the concert if it's music which you'd enjoy. I can't honestly see how it would be a case of compromising your values. How would that be? Does it compromise your values to have friends who have different political views? I'm curious.

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 12:18 pm: Edit

To clarify, I mis-spoke[typed] when I stated the second time about owning their CDs, or liking them. Please allow me to try again:
I merely meant that the group was not like one of my all-time favorites who's songs I know all the words to etc., I like the group enough to enjoy their music when I hear it on the radio, but if the tickets weren't free I wouldn't even consider going because there are only two concerts I ever pay money for and theirs are not it[and it has NOTHING to do with their political leanings, I found that out at the same time I found out about the tickets].

How fascinating I find it and what a shock that so many people of a different political view than mine, when asked a simple question of opinion[PS your question was different than the one I asked those of the same political leaning and thank you to those who DID answer directly], instead of answering it, get judgemental, combative and intolerant.

For the record, I asked a two questions. You do not know my life, whether or not I am open-minded [although the fact that I changed, fairly late in life from being ultra-liberal to ultra-conservative MIGHT be an indicator that I am] or how I choose my friends.

On a final note: Both sides have long used Boycotting as a tool of protest [think revolutionary war times] but when conservatives do it, liberals call it censorship. One of my favorite things about freedom is that with freedom of speech comes freedom of consequences.

By Simba (Simba) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Believersmom:,"Boycotting as a tool of protest [think revolutionary war times] but when conservatives do it, liberals call it censorship."

Boycotting-done at grass root level = Boycott
Boycotting - done at corporate level to muzzle = censorship.

Dixie Chicks, Susan Sarandon and her husband come to mind.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

I disagree with liberals calling boycotting censorship.
Ceser Chavez, Exxon, Nestle come to mind/
We still don't buy Darigold unless we are forced to although they are n't on strike anymore.
( although we wouldn't anyway buy ultrapasturized dairy products that are from cows who were given BST to increase milk production)
Boycotting is a longstanding form of worldwide protest.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 01:41 pm: Edit

You do not know my life, whether or not I am open-minded [although the fact that I changed, fairly late in life from being ultra-liberal to ultra-conservative MIGHT be an indicator that I am]

Believersmom - I've enjoyed reading your posts here. I don't pretend to know your life but note that often a switch from ultra-anything to ultra-something else does not reflect open-mindedness. . .just seems like the same desire for a dependable, fixed worldview. I'm sure that psychologists have some good technical terms for this, but I was an English major <g>.

I suppose I should be able to cite some novel in support. . .

By Mattman (Mattman) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 02:03 pm: Edit

As the Greeks said, "In all things moderation." Ultra-anything is a turnoff for the vast majority of people.

By Michuncle (Michuncle) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 02:54 pm: Edit

After re-reading the responses, most of us think that, if you enjoy the group's music, you should go to the concert. The toughest thing you'll have to "pass" maybe a metal detector at the gate...

Your comment about boycotts took me by surprise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but so-called Liberal boycotts usually target corporations rather than individuals. The hope (rightly or wrong-headedly) is to start a dialog and change corporate policy on human rights and fairness issues. I leave it to each individual to decide for themselves if a boycott is an effective tool. Frankly, I find some of these boycotts more political theatre and fashion than moral outrage.

Conservatives seem to boycott individuals rather than corporations. I don't recall conservatives being called to arms against Ben and Jerry's ice cream (a left-leaning, tree-hugging company). Rather, individuals are attacked for their personal speech. This is censorship. There isn't an attempt to begin a dialog. There is no "I believe your view is mistaken, and here's why...".

Yes, freedom of speech implies a responsibility for words. But speech must be uttered to be heard and debated. In the old days, conservatism meant William Buckley, Jr. and the late Barry Goldwater. Those were civil times...time enough for debate. The Dixie Chicks got no debate.

By Perry (Perry) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Few things are more obnoxious than rock stars or entertainers espousing their political beliefs.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Believersmom, I'm sorry you saw my response as judgmental, combative, and intolerant. Those are three adjectives that I must tell you have never been used to describe me, ever. :) As I said, I was simply curious. You asked if going would compromise your values and I wondered how that could possibly be, any more than having friends who have different political views than you do. It had nothing to do with HOW you choose your friends. I think you're reading a lot into my simple curiosity than was there.

By Marite (Marite) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 03:24 pm: Edit

To go or not to go.

It strikes me that when Hamlet held his famous soliloquy, he did not expect feedback from the audience, much less a virtual one.

By Kissy (Kissy) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Believersmom- you have something in common with your neighbor to the west!


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040807/D84AL4R80.html

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 06:06 pm: Edit

Well, Xiggi you're not famous and have not been recognized in any way for anything, yet you contintually express your opinion. Why should famous people not express themselves and if you had a public venue because you were recognized for some talent, would you silence yourself?

Well, Banana, I would hope that you could recognize the differences between a discussion forum and a paid concert.

This is a place where people come to express their views or share their experience, and the admission price is still only the few seconds it takes to register. The same registration provides everyone with instant recognition: a username.

As far as being recognized in any way for anything, I am working on it, but I am glad to notice your continued interest in my posts.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit

I must say I do not have a problem with entertainers having a POV. I feel that if Jane Fonda wants to speak out against the Vietnam War, or Richard Gere to study Buddhism, ( or if Charlton Heston wants to speak out for the NRA) then that is great, more power to them.
Expecting them not to have an opinion, and to not express themselves is censorship. Most anyone who finds themselves in the public eye take advantage of it while they can, I doubt if a single person on CC would be any different.
If you don't want to listen to people expounding their views, turn the channel, don't buy the book, don't go to the concert. If you think that it isn't "dangerous" to be exposed to new ideas, or to hear ideas that you disagree with, then enjoy what you can and leave the rest.
Most musicians don't speak more than a few minutes here and there on their pet cause. After all, why give a speech, when your songs can do the same thing more eloquently?
It isn't generally a surprise of the performers politics , so if it really bothers you so much then don't go. Why is that so difficult?

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Let me get this straight: You got free tickets to a concert by a group that plays music you you like... and you're asking for a College Confidential opinion on whether you should go based upon your political beliefs?

It would make a lot more sense to make sure that you and the group use the same brand of itch ointment.




By the way, Xiggi is famous!

By Tropicanabanana (Tropicanabanana) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 02:09 am: Edit

>>>>Well, Banana, I would hope that you could recognize the differences between a discussion forum and a paid concert.

The difference makes it even more appropriate for entertainers to express their opinion. A person pays to hear them express themselves, so why complain when they do?

>>>>As far as being recognized in any way for anything, I am working on it, but I am glad to notice your continued interest in my posts.

It's hard not to when you make statements like "they" would not pass the simplest test of personal character or integrity - (who's "they" -all entertainers or just the ones you pick?) or when you use bold font to correct someone else's petty grammar error, then make one yourself. You just remind me of this kid who's forever trying to make a satire of things but he doesn't really know what he's satirizing.

By Steveruleworld (Steveruleworld) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 05:33 am: Edit

Tropicanabanana, you obviously have not followed any of Xiggi's previous arguments in other threads. He is probably one of the most skilled people on CC at expressing their opinion in a way that is both logical and generally civil in manner. Please don't attack Xiggi in the way you did again, you hurt your standing in this community by doing so.

"The difference makes it even more appropriate for entertainers to express their opinion. A person pays to hear them express themselves, so why complain when they do?"
Yes, a person does indeed pay entertainers to express themselves; however, they pay to hear this expression through the form of entertainment, not through rants on politics during breaks between songs. I will concede the fact that some do go to concerts for the political rants, but in general, people go for the entertainment.

I do believe that the "they", which Xiggi was refering to, is the celebrities who exclaim their political tonings through stunts.

I completely agree with Xiggi on this. Just because a person is liked well by many, it does not mean that they are someone to listen to for political guidance. Many in the entertainment industry seem to put on a persona of knowing exactly what to do, despite little experience in the actual portrayal of their suggestions. It is just a publicity stunt to put their face in the media more.


And on a side note, people please don't get all worked up about grammer. We are in an online forum, people type quickly, make mistakes, and don't look back.

By Marite (Marite) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 07:52 am: Edit

I think this whole thread is rather pointless.

The issue is whether the OP would enjoy herself at a free concert. Only she can answer that. If she thinks that the concert will focus on music, she can go and enjoy the music.
If she thinks the performers are going to make political speeches , she has two options: 1 to tune out the patter and enjoy the music.
2. to stay home.

Bring back the bedding thread.

By Simba (Simba) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:03 am: Edit

amen


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