Evolution vs. Creation: Round One





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Discus: College Confidential Café: 2004 Archive: Evolution vs. Creation: Round One
By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 07:58 pm: Edit

I recently attended a seminar on the flaws of evolution/creation. And am just wondering, what are your beliefs? What are things you don't understand about one or the other? How was the universe created?

Thank You,
Ashley

By Victimofapathy (Victimofapathy) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 08:18 pm: Edit

"How was the universe created?"

That just struck me as funny.

By Jenesaispas (Jenesaispas) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 08:21 pm: Edit

To Ashley,

Basically, I believe the Big Bang (initiated by God and which set into motion the laws of the universe and such) happened, as did evolution. However, I, in now way, feel the Bible "contradicts" this notion. I primarily believe Genesis (well, the first few chapter, excluding the fifth) to allude to the development of man and his soul, which is "evolution" in itself. But this is merely one interpretation. There are countless other personal interpretations which hold just as much, if not more, validity to them.

You're welcome.

By Phantom (Phantom) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 08:26 pm: Edit

I think that both evolution and creation theories can coexist peacefully (as long as one doesn't take the Bible literally!). As one with Deist-leanings (how many times have I advertised THAT one the boards?), I believe in a God who created the universe with its natural laws but then stepped aside to let it grow by itself, thereby not contradicting the theory of evolution.

I also think that the argument that 1 day in the Bible = millions of years also has some merit. Although I personally do not follow the Bible, it really annoys me when people take everything in it so literally!

By Noodleman (Noodleman) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 08:59 pm: Edit

I believe in swordfish, dammit, and don't argue with me!

By Cornellhopeful (Cornellhopeful) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 09:01 pm: Edit

evolution and creationism aren't mutually exclusive. There is something called "theistic evolution".

By Goodchocolate (Goodchocolate) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 09:44 pm: Edit

People who deny evolution may as well deny that medicine works, that the earth has a solid core, that germs make you sick, etc. It's all sound science; you can't be selective in choosing which parts you like or not.

By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:05 pm: Edit

But really, what evidence of evolution IS there? Where is the missing link? Why is it that there is really no solid evidence of species changing radically (to a completely different species) in the time humans have been alive? I understand evolution on a small level (within a species) but not on the large inter-species level. Also, how do you all believe life was created?

By Skiowad (Skiowad) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:14 pm: Edit

"People who deny evolution may as well deny that medicine works, that the earth has a solid core, that germs make you sick, etc. It's all sound science; you can't be selective in choosing which parts you like or not."

Those are things that everyone can notice first hand. They get sick, they get better with medicine, well... the core is a little different. But general science can be seen all the time, almost. Evolution happens so little within our lifespan and goes unnoticed.
But yeah, it does make me mad when (religios) people will just say that they think it could be possible that all science is wrong. But you never hear them say this about the Bible. Oh, I hate my town.

By Jenesaispas (Jenesaispas) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:26 pm: Edit

Evidence for evolution:
>>>the fossil record
>>>similiar bone structure across species
>>>embryological development
>>>DNA, RNA, ATP, etc. are nearly universal

no evidence of species changing radically

That's because not all fossils get preserved. Only ones that land in the sediment/swamps just ONE way do. This is why the fossil sample is relatively small when you consider the scope of the biomass that has ever existed.

How life was created?

God willed it and planned it all out. He made the recipe and casued the ingredients to be mixed and had the lightning and gases and such bake it for 9 months of perfection.

By Jenesaispas (Jenesaispas) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:29 pm: Edit

And evolution from a single cell to a human isn't really that hard to imagine. Just think about how all humans develop: zygote (a single cell), ...some stages in between... baby (trillions of cells)!

By Goodchocolate (Goodchocolate) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:55 pm: Edit

People love to point out how evolution isn't sound because we don't know for sure how life started. Although many evolutionists don't believe in God and think life started without the Divine's help, evolution doesn't say anything about life starting -- only about how biodiversity came about.

By Zoester (Zoester) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:59 pm: Edit

i don't believe in god.... hahaha.... some of my friends call me the antichrist but i'm not a devil..... i'm just a pure scientist...with that said you know what stand i take in this issue..
o yeahh...and i really hate those people who take the bible literally.....can't believe they actually believe that earth or the universe of whatever...the same thing...was created in 7 days..... or 6 days......sorry..i don't know the bible....

o yeahh....i read the cosmos by carl sagan..
and i just picked this up in the book:
"Evolution is a fact, not a theory."

By Goodchocolate (Goodchocolate) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Zoester, you should know better! Evolution is a theory -- most (maybe all?) things in science are. There's also germ theory and cell theory, which no sane person would deny.

You will see plenty of sites claiming evolution is a fact, but they're extremeist and bias.

By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

How old do you think the earth is?

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 01:58 am: Edit

GenuisAsh: I will rephrase then answer one of your questions. You asked why there is no evidence of a species changing radically over the time that humans have been on earth.

Rephrase: why is there no evidence of species changing radically over the time that humans would be able to notice and record such changes?

Answer: because that's only been a few thousand years, at most. Early, primitive humans did not go about recording the exact characteristics of the animals around them, much in the same way that they did not record tidal levels or temperatures.

Also, we do see evolution in action over our own lifespans - just not in the fossil-record type way. Think of bacteria. Scientists caution against using antibiotics in prevention of diseases or using them incompletely, as it can help to create a stronger, antibiotic resistant strain of bacteria. That's evolution for you. The HIV (virus) has slightly evolved over the 23 years since its discovery.

Religion once served the purpose of explaining what could not be understood. Any record of religion - any history, in fact - is always going to be exaggerated, embellished, and incomplete. Should Jesus (or another Messiah or prophet) been born now, what would the Gospels be like? If Ancient Rome were as scientifically and socially advanced as we are now, how would the Bible be different? There are certainly some elements which would remain constant (forgiveness, repentance, 10 Commandments), but many which would not be present because the historical record of the time of Jesus invariably contains cultural biases of that time period. It is a flaw in any religion, just not necessarily a flaw in faith.

By Lahhdyydum (Lahhdyydum) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 10:28 am: Edit

well um..fossils should indicate a change from ie:lizard to bird. there should be fossils of the "species" between lizard/bird.
ps. you need more faith to believe in evolution christianity.

By Dragonreborn (Dragonreborn) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 10:59 am: Edit

I remain in skepticsm because I am still torn in confusion on the truth of evolution and God. The Bible sometimes can sound very convincing because most people in this world REALLY want to be convinced. They want things to be explained and not cloaked in total suspicion and uncertainty. They want to be reassured that there is an explanation to their existence. I mean..who wouldn't want answers? But personally I can't make myself believe in something or someone whom I have never seen, or felt within. However, I can't deny that God doesn't exist or He created this world. Because there is absoultely no evidence on that. THe bible is a wonder. I don't take it literally but I do hold suspicions and questions. Who REALLY wrote the Bible? It's been years and yearss since it was written. How could no one during these eons of ages alter the writings in any way? Question is: WHO the heck really KNOWS?
As for science, there is absolutely no 100% correct on anything. Science is an estimate. It is a question. It leads to more questions, infinite amount of questions. I guess we humans have to discover why our brain asks these questions and wonder about these things before looking a little further off. I mean...have we discovered ourselves yet? Sure, we are intellectual beings. But WHY? why would we think this way? What makes us think LIKE THAT?

Oh lordy moody...this entire post is consisted of questions. Muah, anyone care to answer some of them and give me ur opinions? But the way, please don't yell because I don't like hearing people yell. Thanks. :)

By Goodchocolate (Goodchocolate) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 11:32 am: Edit

ps. you need more faith to believe in evolution christianity.

It's easy to understand how people don't believe evolution. It seems ridiculous -- actually hilarious -- to even consider that humans are the product of a bunch of DNA pairing mistakes. But, once you learn about evolution, you can't deny it!

Most of the pro-evolution websites on the web are by people who use science as a religion; it's obvious because of how emotional they are about it. Still, it's stupid to say you need faith to believe in evolution when it's the cornerstone of biology.

By Vadim (Vadim) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 12:13 pm: Edit

"earth has a solid core," Are you insane??? You've never head of the Hollow Earth "theory," have you? :)

I'm currently reading The Origin of Species (I don't know how to use itallics here). The book may be old, but Darwin made a point which I had never considered, and which is quite important: A "species" is merely a well-defined variety. I have heard the argument that while microevolution has been demonstrated (antibiotic-resitant bacteria, for example), macroevolution, or the development of entirely new organisms/species has not. However, I don't really see a difference between the two, so evolution has been observed in the "real world."

As for the creation of the universe, I don't see any way in which an "absolute" creation could occur. Something cannot come from nothing. However, I don't think that God adequately resolves this issue either. The universe may be "closed" and cyclical, or it may be one of many. It could not have simply come from "nothing."

By Jenesaispas (Jenesaispas) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 02:07 pm: Edit

italics: <i>The Origin of Species</i>

Do it exaclty like that... so:

The Origin of Species

And this has been your first lesson in HTML code 101.

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 03:42 pm: Edit

College Confidential uses another code which can be used... use the brackets {}. So italics is i, so you do backslash i bracket text close bracket. No spaces.

By Vadim (Vadim) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 04:19 pm: Edit

ok, thank you

By Jenesaispas (Jenesaispas) on Friday, July 30, 2004 - 04:32 pm: Edit

But it's all just a matter of preference, just as accepting evolution through evidence or through faith is a preference. I prefer the latter.


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