|By Jaug1 (Jaug1) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 07:42 pm: Edit|
His latest ad should absolutely disgust you. Bush has sunk to an all time low.
HE HAS PLACED THE IMAGE OF ADOLF HITLER WITH THE FACES OF PROMINENT DEMOCRATS!!!
Whether or not you like Bush, this ad should absolutely disgust you that our President is comparing any American to Adolf Hitler.
Go to www.Democrats.org to sign a petition to get this ad off the airwaves!!
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit|
this isn't true. this IS NOT TRUE.
look at the ad for yourself and really listen to it. I've already responded to Jaug in another thread (the Farenheit 9/11 thread) but I feel this is deceptive enough for me to respond here as well.
Jaug, did you even see it? Did you just see the word Hitler and then come running to CC to tell us all how mean Bush was being, how he was throwing rocks at your pals?
For people who don't want to watch it, the ad uses images and clips from speeches made by certain people or organizations that at points, have compared Bush to Hitler, a very far left, extremist view. It says Kerry has refused to condemn those speeches (I don't blame him because it's tough to go against your own party, but he hasn't).
The ad shows these people who have said Bush is like Hitler. If this in any way makes people think that *those* people *ARE* like Hitler, I can't understand for the life of me that chain of reasoning.
Jaug, you are being deceptive and partisan.
|By Cheezeit08 (Cheezeit08) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit|
First I want to say that I think it's funny that many Bush-supporters automatically assume that those against Bush are liberals. I am actually Republican, just anti-Bush. I frankly am not that fond of Kerry, but I just think that Bush's actions throughout his term have been driven by secret motives. Secondly, I find it interesting that many of Bush's campaign ads merely attack the character of the Democratic party, and cannot debate the IMPORTANT ISSUES that will be affecting this nation in the next four years. It's obvious there's little if anything positive to say of Bush's administration. It's also astounding how the rest of the world sees Bush's folly except for rigid, hard-headed Republicans. I am not by any means liberal, but I feel ashamed to have George W. Bush as president of the U.S. Period.
|By Jaug1 (Jaug1) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit|
I must say that this ad is great, I like how they have a warning on that front that the following contains "EVIL LIBRUHUL IDEAS" like those are something dangerous for Red Blooded Americans to be exposed to. Gee, I didn't know I was so radioactive.
Anyway, onto the ad, the actual add itself shows clips of various LIBRUHULS saying things critical of Bush, interspersed with two adds from Moveon.org comparing Bush to Hitler. It ends with a little clip of bush with happy music, and message about optimism.
So what did we learn, LIBRUHULS don't like Bush because he lies, has lead our country into an illegal and failing war in Iraq, used the 9/11 attacks to advance his own agenda, destroyed bipartisan discourse in Washington, and stolen our country.
And before you start screaming "LIBRUHULS SAY BUSH=HITLER!!!!!1!!!ONEONE!", the two ads from Moveon.org were created by independent concerned citizens, submitted in a contest that garnered several thousand entries, and were removed from the site and disavowed by everybody, including Kerry, as the ad so kindly states in the intro text. So basically, two people who registered with Moveon.org, out of 2 million, submitted 2 ads, out of 3000, that compared Bush to Hitler. Once people realized what was going on, they removed the ads and apologized.
And my favorite part of this whole thing is that if Bush actually airs these ads, millions of Americans will see passionate people firmly expressing their controversial and critical views of Bush, like Abu Graib has made the Coalition seem like Saddam, they want to win the election, Bush lied about his reasons for war, he's a bad president, and his wasteful and irrational policies have betrayed this country, and his economic policies are making things worse for Americans., and two adds that compare to Bush to Hitler. He's spending his own campaign money to send Americans what I think is a clearly anti-Bush message.
What I really want to know is, is there anybody in his campaign who didn't get off the short bus? This is one of the most worthless, contradictory, and unconvincing political ads I have ever seen.
|By Chavi (Chavi) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit|
Let the Bush campaign speak for itself:
We Agree, Itís Disgusting
On Thursday, the campaign launched a web video titled Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-eyed. The video featured Democrats who support John Kerry making negative and baseless attacks against the President. Interspersed in the video were segments of two ads that appeared on a website sponsored by MoveOn.org - a group campaigning for Kerry - in January.
On Friday night, John Kerry's campaign denounced our use of these ads, and called that use "disgusting."
The Kerry campaign says, "The use of Adolf Hitler by any campaign, politician or party is simply wrong." We agree.
Where was John Kerry's disgust when he hired Zack Exley - the man responsible for encouraging the production of these ads as part of a MoveOn contest - to run the Kerry campaign's internet operation?
Where was John Kerry's sense of outrage when Al Gore, just Thursday afternoon, compared the Bush Administration to the Nazis saying, "The Administration works closely with a network of 'rapid response' digital Brown Shirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for 'undermining support for our troops.'"
Where was John Kerry's anger when Al Gore in May spoke of "Bush's Gulag"?
Why has John Kerry not denounced billionaire and Democrat Party donor George Soros for comparing the Bush Administration to Nazis. Soros stated, "When I hear Bush say, 'You're either with us or against us,' it reminds me of the Germans. It conjures up memories of Nazi slogans on the walls, Der Feind Hort mit ('The enemy is listening')."
Why has Kerry not spoken out against filmmaker Michael Moore who last October compared the Patriot Act to Mein Kampf. "The Patriot Act is the first step. 'Mein Kampf' - 'Mein Kampf' was written long before Hitler came to power."
We created this web video to show the depths to which these Kerry supporters will sink to win in November.
Is this the Democratic Party of Franklin Delano Roosevelt who reassured his countrymen we have nothing to fear but fear itself?
No. This is John Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-eyed, who have nothing to offer but fear-mongering.
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit|
I love it. Jaug1 has almost totally backed off his original claim that Bush was comparing liberals to Hitler. Mostly because it's not true.
And his attempt to divert attention by saying that *I'm* screaming about liberals comparing Bush to Hitler. Christ, weren't you making this thread because you were bleeding from the heart about poor Al Gore being mentioned in the same breath as Hitler?
And the American public, the heartland, will clearly see Gore spitting his venom all over the podium, Dean's pout and Moore's curled lip, and the dirty attempt of moveon.org in the light. To those people, it will be all too obvious why this ad was made-- to demonstrate what the left is really like.
Chavi-- good article. It's perfect.
|By Cheezeit08 (Cheezeit08) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit|
"This is John Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-eyed, who have nothing to offer but fear-mongering"
If anyone is trying to instill fear in Americans, it's Bush. He lied to Americans when he said that Iraq is an imminent threat. He used this fear tactic to get his way and go to war with Iraq, for no credible reason. No weapons of mass destruction were found, so doesn't that along disclaim Bush's motive for going to war in the first place? I don't see how some people do not see through Bush's facade of "Democracy advocate" (When it's costing American and innocent Iraqi LIVES) and realize that he has a hidden agenda.
|By Jaug1 (Jaug1) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit|
Babybird and Chavi:
So basically, Kerry should be responsible for the actions of private citizens who happen to share his views?
So does Bush have responsibility for the actions of those in the armed forces because of his status as Commander in Chief?
I'm not backing down from my original position at all. The heartland of America is the problem because they can't see political issues or see other points of view. The Moveon.org people who posted those clips have taken them down because they received a lot of criticism for it and have made an apology in which they state that no American should be compared to Hitler. However, what is the liklihood of Bush taking down that ad?
See if we are gonna compare Hitler to Bush then you have to take in these facts:
Hitler won his election by popular majority when he ran for office.
Bush had to use stays of injunction and the Supreme Court to win, after he, Jeb and Katherine Harris denied over 55,000 African Americans from voting based on felony convictions. After investigation that list was only contained to be 1% correct. 99% of those 55,000 were illegally disenfranchised, costing Gore the election.
Hitler was a decorated war veteran. He participated in World War I, received medals of honor for bravery.
Bush was an AWOL. He did not fulfill his time in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War (I'm sure the Vietcong were out to attack Austin). He went of drinking, getting DUI's and smoking cocaine, both of which he has admitted to.
Also: Hitler's intial invasions were successful
Bush's invasions have proved to be very poor as much resistance is costing us hundreds of unnecessary lives
Hitler recovered his nation from a depression without ruining the economy.
Bush has put this country into its biggest ever debt and it keeps increasing ever day as we are spending millions on Iraq and Afghanistan.
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit|
Let the 2000 election go. If you want us to let Bill Clinton's flagrant disregard of the Presidential decorum go, you have to (heheh) MOVE ON. Let it go...*watches as it rides away on the waves*
I'm glad we're supporting Hitler over Bush now. Sieg Hiel!
as I've said before, he has never admitted to doing cocaine. stop bringing your arguments from other threads to every one you go to, tainting them with pettiness as you go.
Bush isn't taking down the ad because HE DID NOTHING WRONG. Moveon.org did in fact publish those ads, despite any apology they were coerced into, and I think Bush had a nice case for libel there but he didn't push it.
Q: Should Kerry be responsible for actions of private citizens who compare Bush to Hitler?
A: Absolutely, if he doesn't denounce them doing so.
|By Jaug1 (Jaug1) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 09:23 pm: Edit|
you didnt answer the other question Babybird..what's your answer?
I'm not supporting Hitler over Bush. But if you want to look at the hard facts, there they are.
Yes, he did admit to doing cocaine because he has a criminal record of it.
Yes, Bush did do something wrong. Sorry Babybird if you can't see it. I feel sorry for you. By placing Hitler on an ad for an American Presidential election is absolutely wrong. Moveon.org is a private website with private citizens. The Bush Campign is a public corporation and should be held responsible for what is places on air.
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 09:57 pm: Edit|
Show me the record, Jaug. Show it to me. I'd like to see it.
I didn't see the other question. The answer to that one is yes. They are doing all they can to correct that. However, it isn't related at all to the ad and it's odd to bring it up.
He didn't place Hitler in an ad at all. He said, these people have said these things about Hitler. And they have. Now, *that* is public record. Anything that people have said can be used, as is shown by his critics' constant referral to "Bushisms".
Feel sorry for me all you want, but in this situation, you are 100% wrong.
|By Minerva (Minerva) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 10:03 pm: Edit|
I think this topic/conversation has served its purpose, especially since itís posted in at least one other place. Now itís getting very off topic and threatening to become another place for partisan bickering, and arenít there enough of those on this forum already?
|By Cheezeit08 (Cheezeit08) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 10:12 pm: Edit|
Babybird87, are you going to vote in the upcoming election? Chavi, are you?
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 10:17 pm: Edit|
I don't think it's as partisan as the "if the election were held today" thread. I can't let this go because it's simply ridiculous that Jaug would engage in such a obvious attack that is so hypocritical.
I wish to God I was voting in the upcoming election.
|By Cheezeit08 (Cheezeit08) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 10:22 pm: Edit|
Babybird, can you please respond to my post in the Fahrenheit 9/11 thread? thank you.
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 10:36 pm: Edit|
|By Mac87 (Mac87) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 12:53 am: Edit|
first, i would just like to say that that sound in the ad really creeped me out
i also don't understand why the democrats have a problem with Bush showing an ad that shows clips of them bashing him
also the image of Hitler was from a Kerry ad comparing him to Bush, if you would watch the ad more closely you would see this
i found it interesting that he accused Bush of "playing on the American people's fears," while he played on their anger
and the difference is........i'm not seeing it.........oh wait, no that's not it..................is that, no............there it is, oh wait, damn
|By Chavi (Chavi) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 12:57 am: Edit|
Jauq1- One well known liberal newspaper (I think it was the Miami Tribune, but sorry I can't remember now) conducted a thorough recount of the Florida election and determined, half-heartedly, that even if all the votes were counted the way the Dems wanted them to be, Bush still would have won. So you really need to drop that nonsense. Also, whether Bush used cocaine, was a drunk, or whatever, he has acknowledged being off track during that time of his life and has made amends and is certainly not drinking or doing drugs now. Big difference when one acknowledges having committed a wrong, apologizes for it and changes things. Same goes for Abhu Ghraib-Bush has denounced it from day one. Quit with the Hitler stuff and get a life. And yes, Cheezeit, of course I will be voting for Bush this November.
|By Craigk10 (Craigk10) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 01:04 am: Edit|
I agree with everything you've said Chavi that people need to drop the past -- especially Vietnam. Bush was part of a wealthy family and they found ways out of the war -- that's the way it worked and it really shouldn't be held against them. The Abhu Ghraib scandal, however, could (key word) be linked further up into his administration (though most likely not him personally) so I don't think we should just throw it out just because he has denounced it. He is responsible for his administration.
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 12:32 pm: Edit|
"linked further up into his administration"
the memos OK'ed unmuzzled dogs, sleep deprivation, and dietary manipulation. Nothing on the scale of what those 7 did. Rumsfeld never OK'ed that.
|By Apemanttt (Apemanttt) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 01:31 pm: Edit|
Whether or not you like Bush, this ad should absolutely disgust you that our President is comparing any American to Adolf Hitler.
Wait, who was comparing an American to Hitler? Oh yeah, your liberal buddies compared Bush to Hitler... Hypocrite.
|By Goodchocolate (Goodchocolate) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:36 pm: Edit|
WASHINGTON (June 27) - Adolf Hitler's image has surfaced again in the White House race. President Bush's campaign contains online video, removed from a liberal group's Web site months ago and disavowed, that features the Nazi dictator.
President Bush campaigns in Reno, Nev.
The Bush Internet video, which was sent electronically to 6 million supporters, intersperses clips of speeches by Democrats John Kerry, Al Gore and Howard Dean with the footage of Hitler.
Democrats want the video pulled from the site. Campaign aides said it would remain.
Republicans had criticized the group MoveOn.org in January because it briefly posted an ad contest entry that linked Hitler and Bush. It showed images of Bush with text saying, "God told me to strike at al-Qaida," before turning to images of Hitler with the words, "And then He instructed me to strike at Saddam." The submission ended with the words, "Sound familiar?" on a black and white screen.
The group later said the entry was in "poor taste" and pulled it from its site.
The 77-second video on the Bush-Cheney re-election site splices footage of Kerry, the presumptive nominee, and his 2004 rival Dean along with 2000 nominee Gore and film director Michael Moore. The spot calls them Kerry's "Coalition of the Wild-eyed." Clips of Hitler's image are seen throughout the spot.
"The use of Adolf Hitler by any campaign, politician or party is simply wrong," said Kerry's campaign manager, Mary Beth Cahill, who called on the GOP campaign to remove the Web video from its site.
"We're using the video from MoveOn.org to show our supporters the type of vitriolic rhetoric being used by the president's opponents and John Kerry's surrogates," said Scott Stanzel, a spokesman for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign.
The online spot begins with clips of Gore assailing the Bush administration. "How dare they drag the good name of the United States of America through the mud of Saddam Hussein's torture prison," Gore shouts during a public speech.
It then cuts to an image of Hitler, followed Dean, Moore and Rep. Dick Gephardt, D-Mo., all bashing Bush. There are more clips of Hitler, Gore and then Kerry, before the screen cuts to the words, "This is not a time for pessimism and rage." Video images of Bush follow.
A disclaimer was added to the beginning of the Web spot on Saturday afternoon to explain that the video contains "remarks made by and images from ads sponsored by Kerry supporters." The disclaimer also accuses Kerry of failing to denounce those who have compared Hitler to Bush.
|By Craigk10 (Craigk10) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 03:15 pm: Edit|
I said "could" and there is no way for me or any one of us to know how far this goes up, but it does need to be looked in to. I have not speculated so why have you?
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 06:19 pm: Edit|
because again critics are overlooking Saddam's state sponsored rape rooms and turning to the actions of a depraved few Americans. We all know they should not have done it, they are paying for it, but the media and others are determined to make this the next Watergate, or at least bump Rumsfeld.
All of it is pettiness.
|By Craigk10 (Craigk10) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 06:53 pm: Edit|
I think you are missing the point -- we don't know. And I don't think we should be even measuring our morality against Hussein's -- I hope we have higher standards.
Last thing: I don't think incidents like these would have occurred if the administration used the adequate amount of troops needed in Iraq AND did not rely on the reserves as much AND involved the outside world more.
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit|
EXACTLY. We are BETTER than Saddam.
I don't understand how the second part of your post is related to the topic at all. You're saying if we had sent more troops in, 7 people wouldn't have made naked people piles?
|By Neo (Neo) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 08:46 pm: Edit|
Why are we torturing Iraqis?
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 08:49 pm: Edit|
A: to get information from them.
|By Craigk10 (Craigk10) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 08:54 pm: Edit|
This is sad. You need to do some thinking about why you have so little concern for humanity. Does anyone else not understand the second part of my statement b/c it makes sense to me?
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 09:13 pm: Edit|
I seriously don't see your chain of thought. I think it is melodramatic to connect "involving the outside world" with Abu-Ghraib.
Don't make snap judgements about people. I like humanity just fine.
|By Craigk10 (Craigk10) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 10:00 pm: Edit|
Wait ... weren't you the one who compared the prison abuse with frat hazing? If you weren't I'm sorry, but if you were then I think my judgement is founded. I try not to make these things personal but that statement really angered me (once again I'm sorry if it wasn't you).
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 11:02 pm: Edit|
Indeed I was.
I never said I liked frat hazing. Just that some of the same kinds of activities went on. OK guys, you can unpile now, you're in! Pi Delta Alpha accepts you!
I'm glad you try not to make things personal. What made that one so personal for you? (eh, I was going to say something really offensive right now but I'll let it go)
took you a while to get steamed about it too. delayed reaction, I understand.
|By Craigk10 (Craigk10) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:09 am: Edit|
There is something more fundamental than politics that separates us so it's not even worth discussing. I enjoyed discussing issues with people like Jlq3d3 even though it would get heated, but I cannot say the same about you. I was steamed from the beginning but your continued lack of concern just made it worse. Go ahead and say something personal -- I really wouldn't be offended if it were you making the statement.
I'm done with you; don't even both responding.
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:18 am: Edit|
link to goatse and videos of frat hazing.
|By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:27 am: Edit|
The prison abuse "scandal" always frustrates me. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are at WAR! W-A-R. During times of war, sometimes bad things happen. I'm sick of liberals who throw this in the faces of those who support Bush and the war in Iraq. I challenge you all to find 1 example of a war where similar (if not much, much worse) "abuse" did not occur.
PS: I find Bush's ad hilarious. "wild-eyed" I literally could not believe it. I wonder if there's a guy with a boom box who follows democrats around playing that foreboding music.
|By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:36 am: Edit|
I WILL SAY IT ONCE AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME. THESE DEBATES ARE POINTLESS, REGARDLESS OF YOUR VIEW BUSH WILL NOT BE RE-ELECTED. HE BARELY WON THE FIRST TIME AROUND AGAINST GORE WHEN HE WAS ACTUALLY POPULAR. THE SWING STATES WILL NOW GO IN FAVOR OF KERRY SINCE BUSH'S APPROVAL RATING AND POPULARITY SUCKS. CHRIST
|By Paulhomework (Paulhomework) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:38 am: Edit|
Although I personally like Bush more than Kerry, I will vote for Kerry, as long as Bush is surrounding himself with people like Paul Wolfowitz, John Aschroft, and Donald Rumsfeld.
|By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:47 am: Edit|
Bush's "imminent" re-ellection does not make the debate moot. I personally enjoy debating with others even if It doesn't really MATTER. Thank you for understanding.
|By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:47 am: Edit|
|By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:51 am: Edit|
why debate a pointless basically already determined subject? i'd rather drink corona
|By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:53 am: Edit|
don't forget the limes mi hermano
I mostly just like to talk...a lot
|By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:06 am: Edit|
i bring the limes.. you bring the beach.. and you got urself a deal "mi hermana"
by the way about your prison abuse comment, i acutally agree with you in respect to the fact that we should support our troops at all cost. Read Zimbardo's 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment wirte up, it is quite interesting in that it supports a liberal perspective
Since, both political parties have denounced the prison scandal, the Republicans want to hold a select few accountable yet Zimbaord's experiment proves that the individual is not at fault but rahther the environment(liberal pov)
|By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:07 am: Edit|
|By Babybird87 (Babybird87) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:08 pm: Edit|
Scubasteve, actually, Bush was not very popular at the time. I know of at least three adults who did not vote for him 2000, but will vote for him 2004. Going into 2000, he still seemed too new for most people. People have been won over by him now.
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