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I am a rising senior in Virginia who scored 225 on the PSAT last fall. I was notified in April that I made Commended, but have yet to hear about Semi-Finalist. I realize that I still have a week to 10 days before I should start worrying. What is frustrating me at the moment is that I cannot seem to find previous cutoffs by state anywhere on the Internet, excepting one post on here which listed 1999 cutoffs; I assume things could have changed significantly in five years, though. Everything I read on here seems to indicate that 225 should be high enough, but I would like to know last year's cutoff for Virginia so I have a better idea of what to expect... if anyone here knows what that number is, I'd greatly appreciate if you would post it.

My other question deals with the complexity of the Finalist process, assuming I do make Semi. From what I understand, the main considerations are SAT scores and high school GPA, neither of which I believe would be limiting factors for me... but what else is involved in the process? Is the essay the same topic every year, and do you really have only a week or so to complete it after being notified (something I find hard to believe)? How many and what types of recommendations, etc. are required?

Thanks in advance for any information from those already familiar with the process!

By Anijen21 (Anijen21) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 01:43 am: Edit

A 225 should be good enough. Even for states with the highest scores, like Massachusetts and Conneticut, aren't any higher than 220 or 221. I think there was a post last year that listed all the cutoffs for a couple of years ago.

I'm in the same boat as you--I live in WI and got a 219. I know the cutoff for WI is 210, and people have been saying that they don't vary more than 1 or 2 points in between years.

So, assuming you are a semi-finalist, along with 16,000 other seniors in the country, you start the application process to be a finalist. From what I understand, 15,000 semifinalists become finalists, which indicates to me that it's really anyone who's willing to do the paperwork, has higher than a 2.5, and forked over $20 to score a 1250 or better on the SAT. In all honesty, I really don't think it's that hard to be a finalist once you're a semi-finalist.

Oh, and don't worry about being notified--I know the class above ours for my school wasn't notified until mid-September, even October last year. With a 225, I think you're a safe bet to be a finalist.

By Raven001 (Raven001) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:37 am: Edit

I've got a 212 in Arizona... I saw the same set of data from 1999 which had the cutoff at exactly 212 -- does anyone know if this has gone up or down in recent years (in AZ) ??

Thanks!

By Brettjrob (Brettjrob) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 06:55 am: Edit

Thanks for the info, Anijen. It seems kind odd that some Semi's are already getting their letters, while others may not get them for several more weeks.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 08:32 am: Edit

The thread: "2004 NMS Qualifying Indices for each state" in the Parents Forum has some of the info you're looking for.

By Brettjrob (Brettjrob) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 09:45 am: Edit

Many thanks, Jenniferpa. I did a few searches for this information before posting this thread but that wasn't one that came up. It is reassuring to see that the numbers for 2004 are similar to the ones from 1999. Hopefully I will be getting my letter soon... have my fingers crossed. I am looking to attend OU for meteorology, and they offer a near full-ride for Finalists, so it is a huge deal to me.

As a side note, I am surprised by how much the cutoff varies from state to state. My opinion of this is that it is a bit unfair and counterproductive -- selecting students from all regions of the country is a perfectly legitimate goal, and varying the cutoffs a bit is a good method of accomplishing this, but when you have someone with a 201 getting in over someone with a 221 it might be getting out of hand, in my opinion. That is the difference between "well above average" and "extremely high," to me. Any thoughts on this?

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:13 am: Edit

Well, as the parent of a child who missed being a semi-finalist by 1 point, I can't say I'm delighted by the system, but it's always necessary to draw the the line somewhere. I suppose would have been more upset if any of the schools she looked at gave more than a couple of thousand to NMS finalists. Unfortunately, she had a very specific major in mind, so possible schools were limited.

The whole problem with the qualifying indices is that even within states the quality of education can vary tremendously. It's funny, but while ETS continues to claim that these tests show ability, rather than knowledge, it is obvious from these cut-offs that NMS feels that quality of education will make a difference to potential scores. The trouble is, if they want to do this kind of thing, what other options are there? I.Q. tests? My D would have definitely lucked out if this was the case, but so would my son, and I can tell you, he definitely doesn't deserve to be a National Merit anything!

The whole thing is very artificial, and as such, should not be take seriously, particularly as many of the highest achieving students will probably not go to a school where there is any money forthcoming at all. Having said all that, congratulations to you. The whole thing works best for those students who want to attend a school where money is forthcoming.

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 12:41 pm: Edit

the app has about 3 pages of filling in blanks, 1 general "tell us about yourself" essay, and one rec from your high school counselor or principal.

By Brettjrob (Brettjrob) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Thanks for the replies, Jenniferpa and Texas137.

Jennifer, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the (perceived) flaws of the NMSQT selection process. Where I live in Northern Virginia, just outside Washington D.C., we have some of the more rigorous public schools in the nation, but the cutoff for my test will not be all that high because the same cannot be said for much of the rest of the state. Meanwhile, someone attending one of the worst schools in MA or MD will be stuck with a nearly impossible cutoff index.

Texas, that does not sound quite as bad as I was expecting. I am hoping the three pages of forms are not too heavy on EC's, since I barely have any. ;)

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 01:41 pm: Edit

there are 3 tiny spaces for activities, awards/honrs, and leadership/offices. Only room for about 4 short lines each category.

btw - the 3 pages is what YOU fill in. Not much to it (except the essay) It includes parent's names THREE times! There's another couple of pages that your school fills in.

By Grad05 (Grad05) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Hi, I just found out yesterday that I'm a semifinalist. I was wondering if anyone knows the cutoff for the SAT1 for semifinalists to become finalists? What is an SAT 1 score that "confirms" ur PSAT performance?

By Over30 (Over30) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Grad05, there is no cutoff from semi to finalist. No one knows exactly what SAT 1 score will 'confirm' your PSAT performance, but a score in the same ballpark would be required. Sorry, there just aren't any stated rules on what the SAT score has to be.

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:19 pm: Edit

I have known Nationl Merit Semifinalists who became finalists whose highest SAT scores were in the low 1300's but as the previous poster said there are no stated rules on the minimum SAT score. According to high school counselors that I've spoken to, most NM semifinalists will be finalists unless a) they have mediocre grades, or b) get a poor recommendation from the school because the student is a disciplinary problem. Well over 90% of semifinalists become finalists. If you get good grades, get a decent recommendation from your principal or counselor, write a coherent essay, and get a respectable SAT score you should have nothing to worry about. Essentially, all semifinalists who submit the proper paperwork become finalists unless there is something in their record to disqualify them. A lackluster extracurricular record, a coherent essay which does not seem particularly inspired or original, or absence of significant awards shouldn't cause a problem.

By Indianamom (Indianamom) on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:37 pm: Edit

When I called National Merit in April and asked what the confirming SAT score would be for this year, I was told that it was not determined yet but that the score was 1300 for the two previous years.

By Sarasote (Sarasote) on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Im confused about the esssay topic...it says

describe ur personal characteristics, accomplishments, primary interests, plans, and goals. what sets you apart? your essay should be about 500 words

since its an AND are you supposed to write an essay on ALL of those topics? cuz in 500 words that would be a pretty messy/scattered/unfocused essay....anyone know what we are spose to do?

By Delacroix (Delacroix) on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Sarasote: I'm concerned about the exact same thing for the essay....anyone have suggestions??

By Sarasote (Sarasote) on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 12:51 am: Edit

haha yea i dunno the answer anyone know the answer to my question above?

im also wondering...how do the PSAT people know what your SAT score is? no where on the sheet does it ask you to write your SAT score or how you did or anything. do they just find out themselves?

By Over30 (Over30) on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 01:00 am: Edit

You have to ask the College Board to send your SAT score to the NM people.

By Indianamom (Indianamom) on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 01:03 am: Edit

Semifinalists are required to have SAT scores sent to National Merit.

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 09:29 am: Edit

Sarasote,

Our daughter had the same problem with the essay topic when she was a NM semifinalist a couple of years ago. She waited until the night before the application was due to be turned into her high school and spent a couple of hours staring at the walls in her room trying to come up with an idea of what to write about. She ended up writing an essay about how her room was a reflection of her interests, accomplishments, and aspirations.

Don't worry too much about writing the perfect essay. It is impossible to adequately cover ALL of the suggested topics in depth in 500 words. They are simply trying to get a glimpse of the person behind the test scores, grades, and list of accomplishments. Just write something that lets them know a little bit about the kind of person you are, what motivates you, what you are passionate about, and what you hope to accomplish in your life.

Relax and you'll do fine.
Good luck!

By Lotuswoman (Lotuswoman) on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 06:33 pm: Edit

2005 NMS cutoffs (UNOFFICIAL; see "Simba"'s post under the SAT thread):
VA:219
AZ: 211 (down 1 pt from last year!)

By Teefore247 (Teefore247) on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 07:00 am: Edit

Don't sweat the finalist process - almost everyone becomes finalists. I think the numbers are 16,000 semis - 15,000 finalists. Can't say for sure what the 1000 did to not make it but last year the general consensus was SAT scores that didn't match the PSATs and low GPAs. They are not combing over your essay or achievements to narrow the field. So relax - write the essay - good practice for your college essay - jot down your best achievements and send it in on time. You'll be fine.

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Low GPAs are probably by far the most common factor for disqualifying the 1000 who don't make the cut. Since the type of questions on the PSAT are very similar to the SAT it is unusual for a student to have a high PSAT and a significantly lower SAT. The requirement for submitting SAT scores is designed to eliminate those few students whose high PSAT scores are the result of a large number of lucky random guesses. A small number of students are also eliminated because their school gives them a
very negative recommendation. I've heard of a case where the principal did not recommend a student because the student created a parody site of the school's web site with links to pornographic websites and that student was denied NM finalist status despite an otherwise strong overall record.

Although the previous poster is correct about essays, recommendations, and achievements not
being a significant factor in determining who becomes a finalist, this information is used to determine which of the finalists are awarded the one time $2,500 National Merit award directly from the National Merit Scholarship Corporation.
Since most schools ( except for Ivy League colleges, MIT, and Caltech to name the major exceptions ) automatically offer scholarships for National Merit Finalist status whose four year value far exceeds $2,500, becoming a NM Finalist is more of a concern to most students than getting the one time $2,500 award. About 2,000 of the 15,000 finalists are offered NMSC-sponsored National Merit Scholarships and these are generally students with outstanding extracurricular achievements in addition to great grades and test scores.

By Brettjrob (Brettjrob) on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 02:43 pm: Edit

Finally received my packet today from the guidance counselor -- thanks for all the responses.

By Collegebound123 (Collegebound123) on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 12:30 am: Edit

Writing this essay has been very difficult. Those of you who have to write it-- are you just listing your personal characteristics, goals, achievements, etc. yet still in essay form (for instance, one paragraph being goals, one paragraph being plans, etc.) or are you actually making it like a story-type essay with no clear-cut responses (i.e. Instead of saying, "One accomplishment of mine is blablabla, you are actually describing the accomplishment). It's kind of hard for me to explain, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

By Collegebound123 (Collegebound123) on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 12:31 am: Edit

Also, I never listed any personal characteristics, but most of my achievements could allow the reader to know that I was a determined person. Do you think this is okay?

By Mjcps (Mjcps) on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 09:38 am: Edit

This was a difficult essay to begin to write for my D as she doesn't like to brag about herself. Finally she just sat down and started it.

Basically her essay started with a statement about her rediscovering her love of learning and her intent to further her education. Then a presentation of her accomplishments and awards. The essay was then already over 500 words.

I think, as stated above, that as long as you send in the essay, you will probably make it to finalist as long as your SAT is above 1300 and your GPA isn't too low.

No inside info just my best guess after looking up what all this national merit stuff was about.

Hope this helps.

By Brettjrob (Brettjrob) on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Collegebound -- I am also having trouble getting started with the essay, partially because I am unsure of what the format and tone should be. However, from what I have heard and read, I think Mjcps is correct in implying that as long as the essay is there, over 500 words, and coherent, it by itself should not adversely affect your chances for advancing to Finalist status.

By Collegebound123 (Collegebound123) on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 12:07 am: Edit

After reading my essay over, I actually think I put in too much fluff. I was trying to make it stand out my introducing some stuff about me and structuring my essay around a theme of how most of my accomplishments, characteristics, etc. are caused from my life of leadership. Then I say stuff how leadership has taught me to take iniative, and then I described some accomplishments related to that. But I also included a paragraph of how I taught myself to take iniative, basically a kind of anecdote. Do you think I should revise my essay to be more straightforward with accomplishments and stuff like that, or do you think my fancy little essay will be more eye-catching to judges (I'm also striving to win a National Merit Scholarship). Please be honest!

By Jaqx (Jaqx) on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 01:36 am: Edit

Deadline for return?

Counselor still has no idea whats going, even though everyone in the community has seen my name in the paper and congratulated me. I'd like to send in my essay and info before the deadline...

By Manyhats (Manyhats) on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

The deadline to return materials to my school was 9/10. The school then has to do their part and return it to NM by Oct 12.