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I filed my FAFSA and was returned an EFC that is way over what my family can actually pay per year. If I end up going to a university that costs $40,000 a year, will the feds cover $40,000 minus EFC, leaving the rest to be dealt with through school-related grants and scholarships?

By M1chaelmichael (M1chaelmichael) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Financial aid = Cost of Attendence - EFC

So if your EFC is 20k, the school costs 40k

you will get 20k in grants, loans, and work study

By Glamourbaby19 (Glamourbaby19) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 09:26 pm: Edit

but what if my parents absolutely can not pay the 20K that FAFSA said they could? So I get 20K in grants, loans and work study, and my parents have to take out (20K - whatever they can pay out of pocket) in loans per year?

By Massdad (Massdad) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Glamour - you got it! Not pretty.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:59 pm: Edit

HOwever the CSS Profile in some cases adjusts the EFC higher or lower. PRivate schools use the PROFILE and it takes into consideration some expenditures as well as some additional assets.

This is why best to not apply ED if aid is really a problem and to apply to a range of schools that you would be happy to attend to give you more choices.
Financial aid packages might widely vary, best to have a choice

By Glamourbaby19 (Glamourbaby19) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Oh, this is not good news. Good thing I didn't apply ED...Why do neither forms take into consideration the ammount of debt that your parents have? The measure of your assets alone is not enough to judge how much you can afford to pay!

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 03:05 pm: Edit

as far as debt goes, many people are living above their means.
Why should a school give aid to a family who "need" to have new cars, big house etc? They will make accomodations for families who have had debt that is unavoidable, medical bills etc and will generally adjust financial aid packages when given documentation.

By Justinfiddler (Justinfiddler) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 05:41 pm: Edit

pretend efc is 5000 and school costs 40k

how much of 35k is aid/work study/loan?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Depends on the school. Many give preferential packaging and if you are in category A for desireability you could nearly all grants if they really want you. If you are in category C, and they don't feel like giving you much. you may not even get 100% of EFC; the school may "gap" you, or you will get only the Pell and other federal or state grants, none of the school's private stash.

By Bart_Simpson22 (Bart_Simpson22) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 12:13 pm: Edit

so if EFC is 69,610 there is noo chance of any financial help?? My parents said they miight pay 20,000--damn...

By May_1 (May_1) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Bart, absolutely not. Or at least, its a veeeeery long shot. I mean, your EFC is 1.75 times the total costs of the most expensive colleges in the country! Need-based aid is not coming your way. You should, however, look into scholarships or schools with merit-based aid.

This is for everyone. Please don't complain if your EFC far exceeds the cost of attending college. Given the assets your parents must have to result in such a large EFC, your parents should be able to pay (with difficulty and some wincing, yes) 20-25 K a year for your education. There are people out there with EFCs below 4,000, and would you really give up your daily lifestyle (I'm not assuming you live lavishly, just comfortably.) for their's?

By Glamourbaby19 (Glamourbaby19) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 07:11 pm: Edit

Emeraldkity: we do not live above our means; sometimes people just incur debt - for different reasons.
I know EFC is usually above what the parents can actually afford to pay, but is it unusual to have an EFC that equals 25% of the parent's annual salary, when the student has no earnings and the parents have absolutely no assets?

By Tsdad (Tsdad) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Glamour:

The FAFSA calculations are congressionally mandated. The rules are what they are. If the EFC doesn't reflect the reality of your situation you and your parents need to make a pitch to the financial aid office. The college that really wants you will find funds to make it possible for you to attend. Unfortunately, it may not be the college that you want.

By Drusba (Drusba) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:23 am: Edit

"[I]s it unusual to have an EFC that equals 25% of the parent's annual salary, when the student has no earnings and the parents have absolutely no assets."

Unfortunately no.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 01:52 am: Edit

That seems to be standard, I heard Bush tonight state that Pell grants will be increased for students who take a high percentage of AP classes, but Pell grants only cover a small percentage of students and a small percentage of costs.
Since if my family qualified for Pell, we would probably be having to do something illegal to get money for food and shelter, this doesn't make me too optimistic.

Our EFC is about $12,000 and our income is about $53,000 so families that are experiencing a shock when viewing their EFC are not a surprise to us. Our assets consist of our house, which isn't paid for, and is 2 bedrooms one bath, so it isn't like we are living high on the hog either.
I don't think they have adjusted the average living allowance since Eisenhower so it doesn't surprise me when families have to take out loans to meet their EFC.

By Thumper1 (Thumper1) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 09:34 am: Edit

I think ALL of us would agree that college is a HUGE expense. Our EFC exceeded the cost of DS's private school costs. It made us laugh when we saw it...but by being more careful about spending on things we really don't need, we ARE paying the bills. Also, he got some terrific merit aid which helps a lot. SO...check the college for availability of merit aid. DS got this everywhere he applied except one school....some for academic profile and some as music merit aid.

By Jenniferpa (Jenniferpa) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:27 am: Edit

Actually, I'm not sure why we have to fill out these incredibly complex forms. It ALWAYS seems as if the EFC is 25% of income. I know they have to include assests, but it seems to make very little difference.

Jennifer

By Massdad (Massdad) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:51 pm: Edit

Jenniferpa,

It it always 25% of income, with a little bit of assets, because the underlying formula is remarkably simplistic: Calculate gross income, which is essentially your income reported to the IRS, with an add in for 401K/403b retirement deferrals. Subtract federal and state taxes paid. Subtract a fixed amount for living expenses, which is not a big number. Then, take most of what is left.

I played around with a calculator. Once you get above 50,000 in gross income, the formula takes about 30% of each additional dollar of income.

But heck, someone who makes 40,000 per year could have an EFC of over 1500. That would be tough.

By Vadad (Vadad) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 04:13 pm: Edit

This makes it tough on kids. I know a few a my D's school that actually believed that their "need" would be met, naively interpreting that to mean whatever their subjective need was. Now they find themselves in very difficult situations, and often in their frustration blame their parents--"The government says it's reasonable to expect you to pay X; how can you disagree?"

What the government really expects is that we will go into debt. They make this very easy to do for educational purposes. Now that DOE administers the federal loan programs, they ought to just put a check box on the FAFSA for "loan me the difference."

By Glamourbaby19 (Glamourbaby19) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Well, it's good to know that everyone is as disgruntled as I am about FAFSA...I'll have to pray for merit aid.

By M1chaelmichael (M1chaelmichael) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

...i'm not disgruntled...my EFC was $00,000

By Kluge (Kluge) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:02 pm: Edit

You know, it's not like college is an unexpected, surprise event. Back in the day, some people actually "saved" money in anticipation of the cost. Some strange people still do. It does make meeting that EFC a lot easier...

By Massdad (Massdad) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 10:54 am: Edit

Kluge,

Was the saving you referenced by any chance "back in the day" when a family could live comfortably on one income? When companies still offered defined benefit retirement plans? When housing in good school districts was still affordable to more than the top 5% or so of the locals? When jobs were not being "outsourced" to India, Mexico, China and so forth?

Yea, I remember those days, too. Yea, I wish I could save more than I do.

By Glamourbaby19 (Glamourbaby19) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Kluge,
My parents would have saved money for college...had they earned enough to be able to put some away. Why do you think we have debt? Well, it's from "back in the day" when my parents did not make enough but still had two children to support. Don't blame people's inablilty to pay on their own stupidity.

By Kluge (Kluge) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 06:05 pm: Edit

You know, I think about this... Back when a typical family could "live comfortably" on one income, that "comfortable life" usually included one car, one TV set, no cable, no microwave, no VCR, no internet, and the absence of a lot of things that people nowadays who are living "comfortably" probably expect to have. I'm no paragon of financial virtue, but my family has made more than one choice that resulted in our having less money to spend, in favor of other priorities. And some choices went the other way. I guess there's just no easy answers.

By Kluge (Kluge) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Oops, Glamourbaby - we cross-posted. I wasn't responding to you, but to Massdad. Looking up at your earlier posts, I see one option you could consider: it's not a given that "the student has no earnings." My kids have worked every summer since turning 14; that adds up by the time you start college.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 06:59 pm: Edit

I also was under the impression that schools expected students to contribute at least a min of $1,500 of summer earnings towards their education.

We are having this discussiong at my younger daughters school, we are having to charge minimal fees for art supplies etc. due to budget cuts partially stemming from the district being in hole millions and millions of dollars but also because of less than adaquate funding from the state/DC.
Families who truly cannot spare even a dime are exempt, but at the same time I am having to bite my tongue when I see families with 5 kids under 8 and they are on public assistance and can't feed their kids. When did having children become something you were forced into?
Don't adults have choices when they decide to become parents and don't they look at their resources and think about how many kids they can support?
How can you emotionally be a parent to so many let alone financially responsible for them?
******** I feel better now, I just had to let that out, if I said that at an all city urban public school they probably would take my Starbucks card away from me*******

By Glamourbaby19 (Glamourbaby19) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Kluge- Okay, so I have worked summers and do have some earnings, but in the grand scheme of things, it equals ALMOST nothing. I had an unpaid internship all last summer (an opportunity I could not pass up), so that is why I don't have "11th grade summer" earnings...ah well. We'll see what I get in April...

By Sk2 (Sk2) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 01:14 pm: Edit

My moms husband makes a lot of money, but since i am not his child i will not be getting any of it for school. With my step dads information on the Fafsa our EFC is 20,000 which is the average tuition for schools that I want to attend. Is there anything I can do? Can i expect any money from schools or government when my expected need is $0 ? Is it reasonable to believe I can make up that amount through private scholarships and loans?

By My3sons (My3sons) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 05:08 pm: Edit

If one's son or daughter is accepted to an Ivy (which I understand only give need-based aid, not merit aid) and is accepted with merit-based scholarships to other top schools, is there any possibility of negotiating with the Ivy(ies)regarding the financial package they offer?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:24 am: Edit

Emerald, I have 9. And yes, they each would have had more had I had fewer. And our finances were a disaster for many years and we lived in pretty lousy neighborhoods and in rundown houses. But the kids are here and any discussion as to whether they should be or no is rather moot at this point.
I get these types of comments a lot since I have generally put my kids in schools and activities where the average family has 2.2 kids and they are generally upscale whereas I was definitely struggling for many years. In my case, there were reasons why I have so many kids that I just did not want to get into, but even without such reasons, that type of discussion does not answer the questions of how to get from here to there with the kids.
I have 4 out of highschool now. One is doing his residency having finished med school, one is in med school, one is graduating college this spring and has a job lined up, one is premed and will be half way through college now. It was a struggle getting them through their educational path and the two older ones needed full financial aid, but they will be contributing back to society, I am sure when all is done. It is hard for families getting the funds to pay for college and, yes, many have not saved or spent wisely. Few have planned as they should have. I spend alot of time trying to figure out the next best steps for such families and do not find it helpful to berate them for their lifestyles. The financial aid rules are what they are and they will have to make tough choices and will most likely pay for not planning ahead for colleges. It does not make them bad people.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:39 am: Edit

My3sons, you can always try to negotiate with any school for aid. It does not hurt to try and the finacial aid office just might have some suggestions for you and your child. It is not like that they will come up with financial aid for your family unless there is an error in your paperwork or some situation not addressed. Just not having enough available money, is not reason enough, nor is getting other merit awards since these schools are clear that they do not compete in that arena.
They will likely suggest loans, PLUS loans are popular and $35K at current rates comes to less that $400 amonth for 10 years. There is often much work available on campus and a student can make $2000 during the school year. The student should probably start working 10 hours or so a week now and get another grand or so put away, now that he is already accepted into college and the new priority has become how to pay for it. And he should be looking for a lucrative summer job. Hopefully he has some college money saved as well. All of this can add up to some savings. If he is interested in chec\king out ROTC, there is no obligation for 2 years and they pay a stipend. After the first yar or so, the student can apply for an RA position which generally gives free room and usually a nice room to boot. Buy books from the internet or try to get thme used through the grapevine rather that official used book sites. After the first year my kids cut way back on board by eating wisely, going to freebies, freeloading, and grocery shopping rather than going on the meal plan. HPY is running close to $50k a year this year, so if finances or tight, take a deep breath a start tightening the belt to get it down to $45K. Kid should pay $5k of it, hopefully you can come up with $20k and borrow $20K.
Look around for some local scholarships. Perhaps your guidance counselor can let you know of some. In one area where I lived, a Harvard bound kid got a $10k scholarship from a local merchant or club. The catholic schools tend to have good scholarshop resources so if you know someone in one of them, prevail on them to share some of the info. My son got about $4k in local scholarships, actually $6k with $4k renewable. It really helps.
Good luck to you and do try to get a hold of someone at financial aid. If you are close to qualifying, they may be able to find something that you overlooked and be able to come up with something. just don't count on it.

By Easydoesitmom (Easydoesitmom) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 09:44 am: Edit

Jamimom , I just want to say that I only have three kids and I have stayed home with them ( it was the best decision economically for my husband's work type & schedules ) but we have had some struggles , no doubt . Our neighborhood , once thriving , is going downhill with crime & job/business loss . All our savings from better times went into buying the house and maintaining the kids' education ( they were in Catholic schools , now all public magnets ) .So I admire you for speaking up about your family size but don't apologize . It's a wonderful thing ! Bless you and all yours and I learned a lot reading your post to 3sons about scholarships and it inspired me to look again locally for my daughter .

Can I ask you - Did your sons go away to colleges ? How did you manage the extra things like food costs and books and just getting them to the schools ? My D & S ( both still in high school ) always have summer jobs but the savings don't seem enough to carry them through a whole year of college expenses. I find that to be our biggest worry .

By Easydoesitmom (Easydoesitmom) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 10:07 am: Edit

Emerald , After that State of the union speech , I was pondering on Mr. Bush's proposal to increase Pell grants to students who take AP courses and I think you about right about the unreality of his education focus. . The high schools in the neighborhoods where there are more Pell recipients don't OFFER AP courses or at least , a meagre few . These are usually tough , inner city schools with budget problems . The Free Lunch program will waive the AP test fee for the students lucky enough to have AP in their school but it doesn't solve the problems of students who don't have the advantage of having AP courses in their neighborhood high school . So Bush's proposal will only help a select few students . It seems like he is slowly turning NEED - BASED into MERIT - BASED grants from the government - tweaking some changes in the rules of financial aid.

Also , I also feel that middle-class people should not have to pay through the nose or go into debts for these extra expenses either. They are making education expensive.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Am not impressed with the Pell grant increases for those who take AP courses. I agree with you, Easydoesitmom.
I am very tuition poor. I have had my kids in catholic and independent schools because they needed more personal attention than the good, but impersonal public schools offered. I did try the systems at various points in their lives, and it did not work out. My kids all went away for school. The oldest, really a nephew, was home for 2 years after college burning out community colleges. I could not do much with him as he had no motivation to go to college and everyone--counselors, psychologists, you name it, told me to wait till he was ready. He was never ready. I shipped him off to a local college where he finally was able to make a life for himself and he jumpstarted himself into an elite school from there. Because he was not legally adopted, he and his sister went through college on finacial aid, but it was a fight with the college aid office every inch of the way. It was not easy. And for all the conventional wisdom thrown my way, I doubt that he would have left my sofa if I had not taken over the college process and entered the financial aid arena. He just could not go through the bureacratic paperwork at that time. Having learned that lesson, I did everything for S. He joined me partway through the process and did end up picking his school. He has been the best at being selfsufficient. He is very conscious of costs and does whatever he can to cut the cost of college for which we are very grateful. He has a nice merit scholarship and outside aid as well. I did not bother to apply for financial aid as I well knew we would not qualify or come close to qualifying even with two kids in college and 5 in private schools. D also has a nice college merit award but she is not in a college I have ever seen mentioned on these boards. The same with my niece. Both girls picked their schools with an eye to getting into med school since their colleges have a program that gets them into an affilated med school. With my niece it worked beautifully. With my D, it remains to be seen. She has had some doubts lately, but now seems to be back on the premed track. She'll be half done with college when this year is over. Actually she has needed more reminders and prodding to be thrifty and to look for opportunities to make money and save costs than my son. Strange, because she was always the model kid in highschool and S was the hell raiser. She does have a 4.0 in college and has been working hard but she rankles at having to hunt for good deals on used texts, for instance, and scouring the boards for rides home. H visited both of them last week. D happily suggested an expensive restaraunt and took the $100 he offered to her. S had inexpensive choices (though H took him to a nice steak place) and turned down the money. He's ok, he said. He worked 80-90 hours this summer, coaching and giving private lessons on top of a regular job. He checks ids at the gym which he says gets him there early and forces himself to work out off season which is important for him and also gives him down time to do homework as well as earn money. He mooches at any university function with food and squeezes food out of any athletic function. He lives off campus on a house with 4 other guys and his total rent and utitilites is only $200 a month and he can get more money from summer subletting which he does. He also goes to the school early and works on orientation and other activities including cleaning university housing to get a few bucks. He has become a real penny pincher which is good since the job he has accepted only pays $500 a week. He will need to be frugal for several years. He'll need a car, an apartment, clothes. Had we subsidized him in style during college, don't know how he would make that transition.
We drive the kids to college and bring them home at the end of the year. During the year they get rides with others , S's school has a special bus that leaves the college during school breaks that goes to selected cities and is very cheap. H did bring them home this Christmas but he had business in the area. Was able to get very cheap 1 way plane tickets back for each of them by sheer luck but this is unusual. Actually S had a round trip and will use the return portion to come back for spring break, the little time he will get since he will be in training for his sport full swing at that time. D eats much less than the meal plans provide so she works the cafeteria and gets several meals for free that way and lives on yogurt, cheese and salad for most of her meals. She has applied to be a RA next year and if approved, will get free room and a very nice one to boot.
Big expense has been S2 who is going to a prep school. It is about an hour away and we pay the full load which is the same as a private college tuition. But he gets all of his music and drama instruction there which was running about $7000 a year and driving me nuts with the time and transportation. It's now a one stop shop for him which makes life so much easier. He also gets all 3 meals at the school which is a savings of sorts too--we're supposed to pay for the breakfast and dinner but after a few months in freshman year, he was there so often that they just dropped that from the billing. He will probably be a full pay for college too and I will be using the breakdown I gave earlier for him. We are going to have to borrow to pay his way whereas we did not for any of the others.
Even kids on full financial aid are expected to contribute towards their education. And each succesive year, they are expected to contribute a little more. That is a good first guideline as to what financial responsibilities your student should be taking. A very wise neighbor told me that the financial transition is the toughest with kids. And that this generation is often not making this transition. She subsidized her kids for years after they finished school. If you do not intend to do this, it is wise to start the transition as soon as possible. Some kids, like my S, take to it well. My D is not enthusiastic at all and has to be coaxed and reminded.