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i thought i wwould recieve a pell grant from NYU, but it wasn't on my estimated financial aid thingy. what type of family income do you have to have to get a pell grant?

By Cbmac (Cbmac) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:30 pm: Edit

I think a family income of $35,000 is the high cutoff. About half of the recipients of Pell Grants have family income of $15,000.

There is a great article on the percentage of Pell Grant recipients at prestigious private universities in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education (http://www.jbhe.com/latest/103003_PellGrant_IvyLeagueSchools.html).

In 2001, the percentage of all undergrads who received Pell Grants was as follows at these schools:

Berkeley, 36.0%
NAT'L AVERAGE, 22.6%
Columbia, 17.2%
Cornell, 16.5%
Caltech, 15.9%
Chicago, 13.4%
Stanford, 13.3%

You can look at the whole list on the website. Many of the Ivies are appalingly low (below 9%), with Princeton at the bottom (7.7%). The implication is that, despite large endowments and financial aid, kids from poor families are unwelcome.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 03:17 pm: Edit

It seems to me to reach the conclusion that kids from poor families are unwelcome based on the number of Pell Grants received is kind of a leap. It may be true that there are fewer poor students at the schools listed in that article, but are there other factors at play here? More than likely. I think a more telling chart would show how many students who qualified for a Pell Grant actually applied and were accepted to these schools, but then did not enroll for reasons of financial aid or otherwise.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 09:57 am: Edit

Emily brings up an excellent point here. Many times the financial sacrifice needed to send a child to a $40000+ school is far more than families feel it is wise to endure. I have seen many families make the tough decision that it just was not worth it to send a student to such an expensive school even when the family is considered upper middle income. Families in the Pell Grant range feel the squeeze even more, and that sacrifice may not be beneficial to the family as a whole, even harmful. I know a woman whose daughter received a generous package from Syracuse but it still meant a lot from the family. She received a full ride from a local school and could continue her part time job and live at home. The family decided that was the best route for her to take.
I have not seen this happen as much with the ivies, but I do not work with too many families who are eligible for these grants.

By Cbmac (Cbmac) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 02:46 pm: Edit

You all may be right.

But what about "need blind" admissions policies?All the Ivy League colleges, as well as places like Stanford and MIT, say they will meet any student's financial need.

So is it the case that (1) despite being "need blind", they still charge poor students too much when assembling their aid package, or (2) poorer students don't even consider applying to Ivy league or similar colleges because they think they can't fit in/pay?

If it is #2, how do they know what financial aid they will get unless they apply?

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Remember that meeting 100% of need can be done so with any combination of grants loans and workstudy.
A family with an EFC of say, $4,000, may still need to borrow that $4,000. If the aid package is made up of 50%loans, 30% grants and 20% workstudy, they may decide that the amount of loans aren't worth it, on top of their EFC

As to whether what kind of aid they will get, that is very true. The first time my daughter applied to colleges senior year, she only applied to public universities. For the instate schools our EFC was pretty close to what the costs were. We would still need to borrow that money, but it had to be an outside loan.
The next year, when she applied again, I encouraged her to apply to a private college. OUr EFC was still the same, and we still had to borrow to meet it, but the bulk of the aid was grants and workstudy as well as subsidized loans.
EFC does not necessarily mean what you can easily pay.
If schools don't offer merit ( which Ivies don't), you won't be getting aid below your EFC. That can be a problem for families

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 03:20 pm: Edit

I do work in an inner city highschool where hardly any of the kids go on to college. Despite the fact that most of the kids would get an EFC of zero, these kids do not generally have college even on their radar screen. It is a whole different world than the one most of us on this board is used to.
It is a lot of work trouble, and requires a lot of knowledge to apply to colleges that are not in ones immediate area. I saw a statistic that I cannot recall that gave the percentage of kids who go to college within 3, 2, and 1 hour from home. Well in the 90s. For many kids, going to college means a few courses at a local or community college as they continue to live at home and work a job.
Also qualifying for financial aid is a lot of work that many kids and families get discouraged doing. Many do not complete the process even if they manage to get through the application. On this board, most kids and families are well prepared and motivated to get through the app process and yet how many of you were burning the midnight oil New Year's Eve and hoping that the colleges will take parts of the app late? In less supportive environments, the apps may never even get out.There is unfortunately a direct link between socio economic and college apps. Not to say that all kids fall into these statistics, but the numbers do bear out in the end.
And yep, the financial aid packages are not always generous. Some kids can't go even with aid.

By Garland (Garland) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:10 am: Edit

I work in a college which admits mostly inner-city kids. Most are on Pell grants ,as well as other aid. However, if even a small amount of payment is required by the family, it's a big deal to them; many live on the edge of their budgets and have a lot of trouble with the payment plan. Often the students end up working to make the payments (far more than average work/study hours.) Even the kids who get full aid will struggle to pay for books. When I register students, I've been asked if a class included a lab fee, because they don't want to pay more if they can avoid it. I've seen students fail because they can't afford the parking fee, or bus fare. They definitely live in a different world from that which most of us inhabit. Very few had parents who went to college or know anyone who did, so they don't have that safety net our kids have (I know some parents here don't have degrees, but they do have knowledge of how the processes work.) That some of my students do make it through is a testament to persistence, sometimes super-human.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:31 am: Edit

Kids without family support systems are even more dependent on the adults they have contact with on the outside. even before they are thinking about college, they are dependent on adults making sure they know what classes they will need to even apply.
I remember attending a suburban high school that supposedly was a top district, but I never heard of SAT tests until my daughter was invited to take one thru CTy when she was 12.
It seems like a big cycle even before you are worrying about money, college isn't even on the radar, so why fight for the college prep classes? even if you get the college prep classes and good grades you get your family insinuating that you think you are "better" and "whassmatta, is a job at the gas station not good enough for you"?
Our families gave us grief for expecting our kids to attend college. Neither one of us went, we were too brainwashed to think that we could, but we wanted our kids to have a better life, but we had to expend a lot of time and energy trying to find out that route.
It isn't the kids who have a tough time paying for books I worry about, there are always ways to get around that.
But the kids who don't even know what their options are, who feel shotdown, before they even start, that is who we need to reach

By Cbmac (Cbmac) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 08:40 am: Edit

Interesting thread. Is one possible solution making sure there are decent (and cheap) community colleges in these areas, which can act as a stepping stone to four year colleges? I don't mean necessarily for everyone, but at least for kids at the CC who open their eyes up to the opportunities an education can bring? I guess presumably you'd have to have good teachers at the CC who can encourage them and support them in their quest to get into college. And good teachers cost money...