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How can you determine that a school is need-blind or need-based?
Thank you in advance. GeorgeO.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 08:47 pm: Edit

You may be a little confused... let me help to confuse you a bit more:

Most schools say that they accept students regardless of financial need--- this policy is called need-blind. They decide on an applicant without looking to see how much financial aid that candidate might need.

There are two basic kinds of financial aid that are offered: merit-based, and need-based. Merit-based aid is given because your grades, test scores, etc are in a high enough range that the college wants to attract you. Need-based financial aid is offered to students because lower family income (and other factors). If you have a very low income you get more aid. If you have a bigger income, you get less aid. Need is determined by filling out a FAFSA form. Some colleges also require a CSS form.

Some generalizations...

A great many of the top colleges offer no merit aid, but lots of need-based aid. They are not short of very bright applicants; many need financial help--and these colleges can give a lot.

A great many lower ranked colleges will offer quite a bit of merit-aid, and a lesser amount of need based aid. They are trying to attract brighter applicants with merit aid. They might not meet a full 100% of the demonstrated financial need you have shown.

Remember, those are only generalizations.

There now... did that help?

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:00 pm: Edit

ok I think I will add that a school that doesn't state that they will meet 100% of need - yet is need blind, is probably a tad less picky than a school that is committed to meeting all need- but is need blind.
At least that is the way I understand it.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 10:10 pm: Edit

Emerald,
Uh... as the percentage of need met goes down... the less picky they get.

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In the totally black and white world where no grey exists there are just four possiblities:

If you are a genius and dirt poor... you can go to a top school and they will pay for nearly everything and leave you a not-to-huge debt.

If you are a genius and filthy rich... you can go to any school you are accepted to and pay your way--or save some money with merit aid.

If you are academically-challenged and dirt poor... it's going to be tough, but some college will take you and you'll find a way to pay for it.

If you are academically-challenged and filthy rich... you can become President of the United States.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 10:33 pm: Edit

isn't that what I said?.;-)

That a school that doesn't meet 100% of need will accept a larger pool of students, especially if they can pay their way? They may not consider need as part of admissions, but because they need the students who can pay they will admit more, knowing that they don't have to offer above the EFC.

a school that knows that if they accept them, they have to find a way to make sure they can afford it, will be more restrictive, since their students are going on their charm and grades, rather than on parents bank accounts as well.

Some schools may have recently changed policies, I don't know, but with many endowments losing value and donors having to tighten the belt, even big schools with formerly deep pockets may be chintzy.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Parents have a rough time trying to understand all that and an even rougher time trying to pay for whatever it is they sign up for...

... but can you just imagine the complexity and difficulty any college has in trying to juggle dozens of balls at the same time? Nevermind all the other tons of stuff... what colleges do just financially is pretty awesome!

By Georgeopr (Georgeopr) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 12:18 am: Edit

Morgantruce: are you a college counselor? Thank you for your generous generalizations

By Dessb (Dessb) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Guys, I am pretty well off in my home country, but a talented poor when I come to states, thanks to currency conversion. International grad students like me can NEVER be able to pay from their own.

Does anyone know How good Cornell Univ is when it comes to international students ?

I am planning to join for Human Ecology college

By Good_Gal (Good_Gal) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Which colleges in Massachusetts give a lot of need based aid? Anything about Boston Univ and Brandeis?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:42 pm: Edit

It is very confusing. Schools like Johns Hopkins and Wash U StL are not need blind. Yet they give 100% of need if they do end up accepting you. They also have some generous merit scholarships for students they really want. Boston U and Brandeis both say they are needblind. BU met about 90% of their accepted students' need and /Brandeis met 84%. Both schools give merit aid. Amherst, Holy Cross, Williams, Harvard, Wellesley are some schools in Ma that are need blind and meet full need. Boston College and Tufts also meet full need.Worcester poly Tech gave 90% of need last year.
You can get some of this info from the new USN&WR guide--the big, fat one. There is a section titled "Where the Money is: Schools that award the most need based aid" starting on pg 159. It also gives a good idea on merit aid that is given out.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 09:55 pm: Edit

You folks have left out a key part of the discussion, and what the original poster was after, IMHO.

Some schools are need blind, as discussed above. Others are NEED AWARE. This means they will consider financial need in making admissions decisions - if you need money, you will have a slightly lower chance of admission, especially if you are toward the bottom of the pool. Some even state that for the last 10% or so of admits, they consider ability to pay.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 11:01 am: Edit

Most state schools are need blind for instaters as our the less selective schools. They accept regardless of financial aid but most do not have full need packages for most students. For selective schools that are need blind, the best resource that I have seen is the Fiske Guide. At the end of the description of each school, it tells you if the school is need blind or not. But I have been told by many in the business that there are schools who are not need blind that say they are. So it is difficult to tell for sure since it seems some schools are not forthcoming with the data. If anyone knows a resource or guide that lets you know if a school is need blind or not, let us know. The guides I have break down all kinds of statistics like percent getting financial aid, merit aid, grants and loans but does not break down as to % accepted requesting financial aid and not accepted requesting financial aid.

By Massdad (Massdad) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Jamimom, I've often wondered if practice here is different from public pronouncements? For instance, I saw a statistic (don't remember where) that Harvard's acceptance rate is in the 40s for legacies, but drops into the low 30s for those that request financial aid. Curious.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Part of the reason that practice can be different from statistics is that the numbers are not quotas. Also things change year to year. A few years ago, Hopkins was listed as a school that gave 100% of EFC to accepted students. According to the USN&WR book it gave 90 something % for the prior year. Don't know if that is a mistake , or if merit aid made up the difference, who knows how it is reported. I'm not surprised about the differential in legacy numbers. Most schools stress that though there is consideration for legacy, the involvement of the alum parent is also examined. Involvement can also mean $$$. A Harvard grad who has not sent a cent or involved himself in any alum activities is not going to get the same consideration as the one who is very involved. And though money is not the only venue, those who are applying for financial aid are not likely to be the donors which eliminates a major category of involvement.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:09 pm: Edit

IF a college were truly need-blind, they would open themselves up to the possibility that every single one of the students that they accepted turned out to be desperately needy. I don't think many colleges could "afford" a freshman class made up entirely of such needy students.

Perhaps I'm squeezing the statistical probabilities much too hard.

We should be rejoicing that so many colleges are saying, "If you've got the goods, we are going to find a way for you to attend---no matter how dire your financial status.

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A very highly-gifted student with a very low EFC has a good chance of attending an elite college.

An equally highly-gifted student with a fairly high EFC---and a family that is (for whatever reason) locked into their spending habits---might find himself unable to "afford" or attend an elite college. This is a very painful situation---for the student, the college, and society.

I can think of several arguments that could favor shifting a lot of need based aid up to folks that have much higher EFCs... but then we could not any longer call it "need" based aid. Just think about this season's "tax cuts" scheme. In America, anything is possible.