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My daughter will be applying early decision in November. She is leaning towards Columbia but may consider others, such as Princeton and Georgetown. Is their any way to get estimates, at this early point in time, from these schools regarding what they might offer if she were to get accepted? In other words, is it possible to contact their financial aid office and give them our estimated EC and ask them how much grant aid vs. loans they would typically offer a student with such a profile. It seems like Early Decsion leaves you blind regarding financial aid offers. Is there any way to get this information prior to the November deadlines? Or does it really make much of a difference at the Ivies? Are all of the aid packages going to be pretty close to each other? The variable I am most interested in is the ratio between outright grants vs. loans that are typically available for early decision accepted students. The college guidebooks don't seem to provide enough information to do this kind of comparison shopping and waiting for the financial aid package offers in the Spring is too late when considering which schools to apply ED. In addition, any advice on how to approach the financial aid offices to obtains this kind of information.

By Pmiller on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 08:00 am: Edit

I was accepted ED to Princeton, and I can tell you that you will be hard pressed to find a better Fin. Aid package (I think Dave will agree with me). The good thing about all of these schools (I'm not 100% sure about Columbia, but I think it is) is that they are 100% need blind in admissions, but fin aid is 100% need based. I have found the fin aid officers at both Gtown and Pton to be very helpful. I'm not sure if either one does, but some schools have an online estimator using the institutional methodology. I know Princeton won't give you any loans now. I'm sure Dave can fill you in on more specifics

By Dave Berry on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 10:58 am: Edit

Pmiller is right on the money, so to speak. Princeton has an early estimator on their Web site (under Financial Aid), which you can find here, and they have one of the most family friendly policies in the Ivies (and all of higher ed, for that matter). There is a mid-$50K cutoff below which loans are eliminated. Bottom line: If you can get into Princeton, you can afford to go there.

I found a quote from one of my student contacts who recently visited Princeton. Here's what he said: "Dude, I was just at Princeton with my cousin (she got an interview there) and at the information session they said flat out that if you can't afford Princeton but you're accepted, it's not a problem." That's what we want to hear. I can vouch for that personally since our family benefitted from Princeton's generous aid to our son who was in their Class of '99.

All Ivies (except Brown) are need-blind. Their packages are close, but some are the best. Princeton is among the best. Harvard's not too shabby either. Most of the Ivies, MIT, and some other biggies tried to fall into line behind Princeton a few years back when Princeton became much more aggressive about using their huge endowment for financial aid. They wanted to bring in more socio-economic diversity to their classes.

The Ivies' Web sites should all have the estimators. If you can't find one for a school, call their financial aid office and ask them if they have a paper version. Under the right circumstances, even families with six-figure incomes can qualify for aid at these top schools. Best wishes for your family's success.

By David Hawsey on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 09:20 am: Edit

Don't assume that the nation's top colleges and universities are entirely "need blind" in admission practices. A few years ago, several elite schools, including a few in the New England area, were using special software designed to correlate variables that led to the likelihood of whether or not a student would matriculate before s/he applied, in many cases even before the college ever sent their first wave of search brochures.

One variable, used until two years ago, was supplied by Experian and TRW financial services companies. These are the firms that provide credit reporting on millions of American individuals and families each year. Colleges could buy this data, incorporate it into the software model, and run a query to see who was needy and who was not, all based on household income.

This practice is no longer allowed by federal law, but colleges can still purchase software that derives a household income from other reliable sources. While not quite the same thing as "need blind" admissions, a few schools would simply exclude certain students who inquired about the school from further mailings, thereby discouraging them from pursuing admission at all.

The son of a friend of mine received a "discouragement" letter from a prestigous New England college two years ago, telling him his "...interests would be better served by another college or university." They wished him well, and that was that. His interests, however, were top programs at that college! When I looked into this further, I noticed that my friend's father was high need, and would require substantial grants. Moreover, the son's scores and GPA were outstanding, meaning the college would conceivably end up awarding more scholarship money and would be receiving less federal and state grant to support this student's package.

This trend is very hard to prove, but it does still exist. The software is one of the best-selling products of a top enrollment management consulting firm's products and services menu.

The bottom line: If you are admitted, you were most likely averaged in with all other admits and, no matter who matriculates (accepts the offer), the college has reached an average net-tuition-revenue figure.

If you were never sent an application, but have great test scores and a strong academic record (on par with the school's stated requirements), you should call and make sure you receive an application. If you receive a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter, call the admissions office and ask why you don't seem to be their bread and butter.

My friend's son, by the way, ended up at Yale! It took a phone call to a faculty member (on behalf of the student) to put pressure on the admissions staff. By the way, he is doing just fine in his junior year.

By Dadster on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 09:32 am: Edit

A "discouragement" letter - what an honor! What was the timing of this letter - after the app was received but before the bulk of acceptances/rejections went out? I've heard of "probable" letters during this period, which I guess would be ENcouragement letters.

By David Hawsey on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 01:06 pm: Edit

The student received the "discouragement" letter before the ED deadline. Makes it harder to know whether a student is being told it's OK to re-apply RD, or they are out of the running entirely. I'd check with individual admission offices as to their specific policy in this matter.

By LadysBees on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Here's our family scenario:

(1) Son has worked very hard through jr. high and especially sr. high to make good grades and participate in extracurriculars to become a very good candidate for college.
(2) Mom & Dad are very proud. Yea!
(3) Son applied ED to an Ivy (his first choice school) and was accepted. :o) + )
(4) Mom wants to do everything possible so son can attend Ivy. Dad is proud of son's accomplishment, but thinks Ivy school is too expensive and son should go to state school.
(5) Son applied to state univ. prior to finding out about his Ivy acceptance and of course, pulled back his application when he received his Ivy acceptance letter.
(6) Mom and Dad pay separate household accts.
(7) Mom thought family could swing the cost of sending son to Ivy school with some sm. savings, family/student loans and some sacrifices.
(8) Mom subsequently found out family debt is excessively higher than before son applied ED. Cr. cds. alone are over $50K! (Dad loves cr. cds.)
(9)Family has mortgage, auto loan, and other debts.
(10) Ivy school says our EFC is $25K+ and Dad says why shld. we pay so much over next 4-5 yrs when state school is lots cheaper.
(11) Mom is angry about addtl. debt and how it may impact family's ability to send son to first choice school or possibly any school.
(12) Mom is working on the FAFSA and plans to enter only one school code--for the Ivy school. (13) Dad says to add a second school code for the state school. Mom says no because Ivy school will think son may be trying to back out of agreement to go there if it sees state school code on son's FAFSA. Mom doesn't think son can renege on agreement to go the Ivy even with the family's addtl. cr. cd. debt.
(14) And even if the Ivy releases son from his ED obligation, Mom believes son can still apply elsewhere and request to have his SAR sent to the schools he applies to and qualify for fin. aid/merit aid.
(15) Dad believes not adding the state school will negate son's ability to qualify for fin./merit aid there or anywhere else.
(16) Mom's exhausted and wants to resolve dispute with Dad.

***Does anyone have any comments/suggestions for what we should or shouldn't do in our situation? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

By Rhonda on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 08:19 am: Edit

Note to Dave Berry -- as of this year, Brown is need blind.

By nyc1000 on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 09:48 am: Edit

You are permitted to withdraw from ED for financial reasons. But go for the IVY, if possible (obviously!).

By Brownie_07 (Brownie_07) on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Brown is now need-blind.

By Agamemnon314 (Agamemnon314) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 10:00 pm: Edit

DAVE BERRY. Are you sure Princeton has good financial aid? I went to the Early Estimator at Princeton and it projected a EFC of 32,230-33,230. I also went to the Estimator at www.finaid.com and that of Dartmouth college and they both projected around 5000 EFC. My family income is $59000 by the way and we have 6 people in our family. Unless the Princeton Early Estimator is broken, I really don't see any truth in your statement that Princeton "has one of the most family-friendly policies of the ivies."