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It is my understanding that if i become a national merit finalist i am eligible for only one award of the 3: college sponsored, corporate sponsored, and the nm foundation sponsored. However, I have a question. My dad works for one of the sponsoring corporations, but their scholarship is only like 1000 dollars per year. On the other hand, many of the colleges i am looking at give full tuition and fees scholarships to all national merit finalists. It seems like a no brainer - take the college sponsored one. However, after reading the National Merit's Bulletin on scholarships, it seems they are talking about different college sponsored scholarships - ones that give a stipend based on need. Are the scholarships I am seeing from the colleges independent of the national merit scholarship process and awarded independently and solely based on finalist standing? Or are the scholarships one and the same? Please reply, Thanks

highlander2000

By Calmom (Calmom) on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 11:03 pm: Edit

As you surmised, any college-sponsored scholarship in excess of $2000 per year is indeed awarded independently, although many of these colleges STILL require that you designate them as your NM first choice in order to qualify. (They probably just don't want to commit their scholarship funds to students who don't plan on attending).

When a student has a college-sponsored scholarship, the payments are actually administered THROUGH National Merit. The maximum is $2000, but I believe you have to show financial need to get that amount; otherwise, I believe you may only get about $500.

Any college that gives more than $2000 is drawing from its own scholarship funds. Most of these colleges will also make up the difference if you get one of the alternative NM scholarships. For example, any one can see that the one-time only direct NM scholarship for $2500 is worth less than a 4-year renewable scholarship of $2000, so despite the prestige, winning the $2500 could be bad news. (I have to say I was relieved that my son did not qualify for that - I like the $8000 a whole lot better).

I hope this help. I do think that the NM process is needlessly confusing.

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 11:26 pm: Edit

Thank you very much Calmom. I needed your guidance! But if you don't mind, i still have one question relating NM scholarships. It'll take a while to draw out, so hang on:

You said that any college sponsored award greater than $2000 is independently awarded.

So, if I name a college that is giving full tuition and fees ($8000 per year) my first choice, could I get that award plus a corporate sponsored scholarship?

i am under the impression that only one scholarship is to be had, but your surprising info has piqued my curiosity.

Thank you so much Calmom! Trying to wrestle info out of the National Merit guys is tough - I made a call to them, and they seemed unwilling to mention half the stuff you dropped effortlessly.

By txtoo on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 09:05 am: Edit

Highlander2000 - If you are considering grad school, I wanted to make sure you know that University of Oklahoma offers full tuition, room and board and a stipend for 4-5 yrs. to Nat'l Merit. Some of their programs are surprisingly strong and it is a consideration if grad school looms in the future. Just a thought - good luck to you.

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 01:05 pm: Edit

thank you txtoo! I was quite unaware of this scholarship at oklahoma. i am currently interested in OU, so i'll take a better look.

I really appreciate your response.

By txtoo on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Glad if I helped. Here is the link to the OU National Merit award page:

http://www.go2.ou.edu/ns_non_res.htm

By Donna Lynn on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Does anyone have a list of what colleges give full tuition to National Merit finalists? It may be in the packet, which we haven't received yet. So far I've found OU, Florida, Arizona State and Alabama. Any others? Thanks...

By Calmom (Calmom) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:34 pm: Edit

Highlander,
You can't have BOTH an NM coporate sponsored and college sponsored scholarship at the same time. However, the college that offers $8000 is giving at least $6000 from its own funds, and it may have a policy of simply making up the difference -- you need to talk to the college to be sure of it's policies.

My advice: DON'T designate a first choice college for NM until you are pretty sure of where you are going; if there are several colleges you are considering, wait until spring to send in the NM designation. (When you do send it in, it can be done by fax - I personally prefer faxing to mail.)

Do keep in mind that colleges that offer generous scholarships to NM finalists also have other excellent merit awards to offer as well. So it's best to look at the NM award as only being one piece of the potential scholarship or merit-based aid package.

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:07 am: Edit

thanks again calmom!

You are right, other merit based scholarships are available (many colleges have automatic scholarships based on a student's GPA & ACT/SAT scores). These merit based scholarships are usually available in tandem with NM finalist scholarships offered by the university (public universities, at least). Also in addition to the automatic merit scholarships are a college's endowed scholarships. These are awarded from the school's benefactors and are also usually combinable with the NM finalist scholarships.

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 05:33 pm: Edit

In response to your first response, Calmom, I see that you bring up an interesting question.

You said that winning the NM sponsored scholarship (only $2500) could be bad news. Does this mean that NM automatically awards scholarships, without regard to the student's wishes? (for instance, I would be eligible for NM, corporate, and college sponsored finalist scholarships. Could I be awarded all 3, and then have to choose 1, or would one and only one be awarded, end of story?)

Thanks again Calmom and txtoo for your valuable input.

By Shennie (Shennie) on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Calmom stated above that she thought the max award of $2000 could only be awarded if there was financial need. My son received the max award at his school ($2000 / year for 4 years) and we do not have financial need.

Also, a friend of ours received the NM $2500 award. He will use that the first year and the college is awarding him the max of $2000 for the subsequent 3 years. I don't know if they are required to do this, but he is not losing anything by winning the more prestigious award.

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 06:57 pm: Edit

thanks shennie. It seems strange to me, though, that the scholarships you talk of don't exist at the colleges I am interested in. They talk of scholarships awarded to finalists that provide full tuition and fees, nearly $8000 per year for out of state. I am still required to name the college #1 even though they are using their own funds and not operating through the NMSC.

Thanks anyway.

By Calmom (Calmom) on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 07:42 pm: Edit

Highlander, you can't be awarded "all 3" and then have to decide -- you can only have ONE official NM award, and if you get one, your name is out of the running for any of the others.

Issues like whether the school will supplement one award to make up the difference simply vary from one school to another. Again, it really depends a lot on whether the college is interested in attracting NM finalists.

By john baptista on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 09:59 pm: Edit

What can you get if you're only commended?

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:03 am: Edit

John Baptista,
Commended students can get some scholarships. The NMSQT/PSAT bulletin says that some corporations and a few colleges sponsor scholarships for commended students. However, there is little information besides that.

Visit www.nationalmerit.org/index.htm
or call 1-847-866-5100 for more information.

However, the size of these scholarships will be minimal (probably) considering you are not a semifinalist or finalist in the competition.

Nonetheless, Good LUCK!

highlander2000

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 07:17 pm: Edit

Other schools which offer automatically offer full tuition and room and board scholarships to National Merit Finalists are the University of Kansas, Bradley University, the University of Tulsa, Southeast Missouri State University, and Ball State University (which also throws in a lap top computer ).

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:47 pm: Edit

Ball State U? Free lap top? WOW !

By brent on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Yes, except Ball State U. is not exactly academically renowned. Trust me, I know first hand.

By BigRed on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:28 pm: Edit

A few departments at BSU are pretty strong, brent. Their undergrad business school is top 100 (US News), and their entrepreneurship program was ranked #5 last time I checked. Architecture and communications are strong, too.

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 09:51 am: Edit

thanks for your help everyone!
I really appreciate it.

By monica on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 07:40 pm: Edit

I have a NM question -

the schools i'm looking at won't give finalists money, and my parents don't belong to any organizations or work for any businesses that offer national merit money either.

assuming i make it to finalist, is there any way to get scholarship money from it?

By flounder on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:24 am: Edit

I believe that some of the scholarships come directly from the NMSC itself. You might qualify in that category.

By chuck manson on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 11:55 am: Edit

I'm looking for a database of colleges and universities that offer scholarship opportunities for National Merit Finalists, Semi-Finalists, etc. I know one exists because I found a scholarship at Ball State on such a site for a student two years ago. Do you know of such a site?

By medusa2003 on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 03:17 pm: Edit

The University of Kansas is planning to discontinue offering scholarships to National Merit Finalist who are not Kansas residents.

By Jeremy Heller on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Do you know of any scholarships available for students whose parents are divorced or for students who are vocal majors?

By Brenda on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 11:06 pm: Edit

Ohio state gives full tuition and partial room and board to all Finalists who name OSU as their first choice, and they also have an excellent honors program

By Eric on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 01:31 pm: Edit

I was named a National Merit Semifinalist in Oklahoma with a score of 213. However, I am worried that I may not make it on to the Finalist level because my SAT score is only 1310. Does anyone know if they do some kind of automatic elimination based on SAT score when selecting Finalists? I have an ACT of 33.25 which should make up for the 1310 if they even look at it.

By Rjrj49 (Rjrj49) on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 08:44 am: Edit

I just received my score of 221. I know this is a good score, but how good? Can anyone help?

By Anonrs (Anonrs) on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 01:26 pm: Edit

John Baptista and others, do not give up hope re receiving merit money. My son was only a Commended Student and received several different institutional awards ranging from 2,000 (one-time)and four larger ones ranging from $24,000 t0 $48,000 (all the larger awards were spread over four years). None of these awards were even associated with NMS status; they were all institutional awards -- which means that they were looking at far more than just test scores. (The one-time $2,000 award came from the Associated Student Body organization on the one campus). Two of the awards entailed special applications / competitions; two were awarded with the processing of the basic admissions applications.

By Nancy Helvenston on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 01:50 pm: Edit

What are the chances of receiving National Merit Semifinalist status in Florida with a 212?

By CSgemini13 on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 10:35 pm: Edit

Does anyone know if Notre Dame or any Ivy League schools give money to National Merit Finalists? To Rjrj49: look at your percentile ranking. Anything in the 99th percentile almost guarantees finalist standing. Congrats on your awesome score. I got a 220

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Ivies give only need-based scholarships.They don't care whether or not you are a National merit finalist.

I don't know Notre Dame's criteria for scholarships.

You can always check individual college's web sites for scholarship info.

By Aaron Couch on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 11:17 pm: Edit

I'm going to be named a semi-finalist next september when they announce them.
What kind of stuff do they look at to determine finalists? How hight does your SAT score have to be?

By Calmom (Calmom) on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 12:59 am: Edit

Aaron, 90% of semifinalists become finalists. I think that as long as your SATs and GPA are reasonably strong, and you get the paperwork submitted in time, you will be assured of reaching finalist status.

By CSgemini13 on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 10:34 pm: Edit

Thanks Northstarmom....now, since my guidance counselor hasn't talked to me, what will I have to do/submit to reach finalist standing if I'm named a semi-finalist?

By Alex on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 06:33 pm: Edit

As a sophomore I got a 208 on the PSAT and I'm hoping to be nominated as a NMS semifinalist/finalist next year, so I was wondering what sort of score is needed for that. If I get 208 again, will I have a good chance, or will I need to improve, and if so, by how much? Thanks

By Crow42 on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 08:00 pm: Edit

I have found some web sites that list colleges that give free rides to NM Finalists, but I have yet to find a complete list. Here's one: http://courses.ncssm.edu/counseling/MeritFinalSchols.htm

Somebody said something about a packet the NM Corp. sends out that might have a list in it. When is this list sent out?

If anyone knows where to find a complete list, I and many others would be eternally grateful.

By Crow42 on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 09:17 pm: Edit

Whoops, sorry about that. http://courses.ncssm.edu/counseling/MeritFinalSchols.htm is a list of schools that give "good" scholarships for NM Finalists, but not necessarily full tuition/room/board.

By CSgemini13 on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Thanks so much, Crow42, that's a pretty decent start. Alex, your chances depend on what state you live in. States like Massachusetts and Virginia tend to have higher average scores, so you'd need a higher score to qualify, around a 220. Ohio's is usually around 215, but I'm not sure about any others. If you inprove by 10 or 12 points, though, you should be fine.

By anna m on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 02:44 pm: Edit

hey guys, i just stumbled onto this board while looking for a list of colleges that will give full tuition. I just though i would ask since my opinion is a bit biased-what does everybody think about the university of oklahoma? they have contacted me several times about national merit and how they give a $35,000 scholarship package, but i really don't know what their reputation is outside of oklahoma (and everybody here thinks they're awesome b/c of their football team!) thanks

By Calmom (Calmom) on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 04:34 am: Edit

Just my personal opinion, but I think if you are looking for a full ride, I think you should look at the Arizona State University honors college offer as well. They also give full tuition plus a stipend, and with the honors college you would be housed with other strong students and merit scholars.

By anna m on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 01:42 am: Edit

thanks, calmom. anybody else's opinions would be greatly appreciated as well.

By brock2004 on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 11:55 am: Edit

I'm a junior and recently got my PSAT scores back (222). I'm pretty confident that will get me to finalist status, but I'm unclear as to much of the process. I keep hearing something about selecting a 1st choice college. When does this need to be done? Also, what is ED and what do I need to understand about that? I'm hoping to attend a top business college (management &/or marketing)---anyone know of some good ones known for giving good National Merit scholarships? Thanks!

By Shushubean (Shushubean) on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 04:29 am: Edit

I have received mixed messages as to what my National Merit status is. I was notified (I don't remember by who) that I received Recognition. Then I got a letter from my high school in November congratulating me on my Commended Status, which is the first I heard of it. Recently I got a letter from the University of Houston congratulating me on being a semi-finalist and offering me a full ride if I advance to finalist. This is the first I have heard of this. How do I find out what is going on?? The National Merit website is completely useless. Please help!!

By Nminfo on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 10:41 am: Edit

To brock2004 and Shushubean - I would call the National Merit Scholarship Corporation at 847-866-5100 if you have questions about 1st choice deadlines or status. A student becomes a National Merit Semifinalist based exclusively on their PSAT scores. Roughly 1/2 of 1% of juniors in each state become National Merit Semifinalists and they will told by their school in September of their senior year if they have achieved semifinalist status. There is a separate cutoff score for each state which changes each year based on the PSAT scores achieved in a particular year. The required PSAT scores to become a semifinalist historically have ranged from 205 to 223 depending on what state you live in. ( I've seen historical cutoffs by state elsewhere on this website ). A 222 will most likely get you to semifinalist status depending on what state you live in. For a semifinalist to become a finalist you must fill out a form that your guidance counselor will give you in September. About 90% of semifinalists become finalists. Those that don't make the cut usually do so because of mediocre grades, a poor recommendation from your principal because of disciplinary problems, or poor performance on the SAT. On the NMS application you will be asked to select a "first choice" college. I would recommend putting "undecided" since the NMSC allows you until around May 1st to make a 1st choice decision. Some colleges use the NMSC first choice deadline to qualify for scholarships, some
colleges require you to make that choice earlier.
The Carleton college website ( www.carelton.edu )
has a section with excellent advice for National
Merit Semifinalists. In February of your senior year, National Merit Semifinalists will be notified if they have reached Finalist status.

To Shushubean: Since your high school gave you a letter congratulating you on your commended status and weren't given a National Merit Scholarship application in September of your senior year which is given to all National Merit Semifinalists, it appears that the University of Houston made a mistake. I would contact your school counselor to confirm.

By katd on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

I have a question regarding National Merit Scholarships, because they really confuse me. I am an american citizen living in Canada and I recently got my PSAT results back. I am wondering what the cut-off is, based on percentile, to be recognized or to be a semi-finalist. If someone could just give me the numbers...I also don't understand this situation with each state having an individual cut-off. If I don't have a state, what should I do about that?
Thanks!
Katie

By momof2 on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 10:16 am: Edit

Anna M -
The University of OK offer is for real. When US Sen. Boren (former OK gov.) became university President, one of his main objectives was raising the academic recruiting standards - resulting in the current program. The current NM package includes full tuition and fees, full room and board and a cash stipend to go toward books, etc. They also have an Honors Dorm and these students get registration priority throughout college. Look for a link on the main OU website to the "National Scholars Program" for more details. You also might want to call their toll-free number and visit with Craig Hayes, the young man who is director of the program. He has been very helpful to my son, who will most likely end up at OU next fall. Unless he gets another full-tuition offer from one of his other choices, he will go to OU and save his market-stung college savings for grad school. Good luck to you.

By bb on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 08:08 pm: Edit

what have the grades and sat scores of finalists whom you've known been like?

By rcd on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:42 am: Edit

Does anyone know for sure when notification of NM Finalists occurs? I have heard both early Feb. and early April, and I can't (easily!) find my NM info packet. Our counselor held last year's PSAT results until Jan. 9 - all the other schools released theirs around Dec. 15, so I want to stay on top of this. Thanks!

By Calquest on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 03:20 pm: Edit

According to the paperwork from the NMSF:
Jan, 2003 - "Semifinalists who do not advance to Finalist standing notified."
Jan-Feb, 2003 - "Semifinalists advance to Finalist standing...Certificates...sent to High schools..."
March-June, 2003 - "Merit Scholar designees notified"...then under this particular one, the next three:
March, 2003 - NM Scholarship winners notified.
March, 2003 - Corporate winners notified
April-June, 2003 - College sponsored winners notified.
Then,
May, 2003 - "Finalists not selected as Merit Scholarship winners notified."
HTH

By rcd on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Thanks, Calquest. I thought it was about that time. One more question: Is the notification sent to the student or the school? If anyone here receives a notification, please post. Thanks again.

By Calquest on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:39 pm: Edit

I didn't find anything specific about notification for those who don't get to Finalist stage, but my guess is they are notified at home. That's only a guess tho'. But for Finalists, the info sheet says: "By mid-February, NMSC will notify Finalists at their home addresses. NMSC also will inform high school principals about the status of their Semifinalists and provide a Certificate of Merit for presenation to each one who qualifies as a Finalist."

Best of luck!

By Highlander2000 (Highlander2000) on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 10:00 pm: Edit

wow my post has really grown! hope people have found answers.....

Thanks to all the great contributors (students and parents) who make this possible.

^___^ see ya later

highlander

By kzygmunt1 on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:23 am: Edit

Does anyone know if Vassar gives any merit scholarships? Northwestern?

By w on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:55 pm: Edit

northwestern does, but they are need based

By rcd on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 10:50 am: Edit

Right on Northwestern, but don't forget that at an estimated cost of about $36,000 per year, most of us look a bit needier than we expected! It's always worth a try to apply for financial aid.

By Emily OLeary on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:02 pm: Edit

Hi... I just happened onto this site while looking for info on National Merit Scholarships. I noticed that the scores everyone was talking about were in the 200 range. The maximum score on the the PSAT I took was 160, and I only received a 139 (this is still in the top 1 percentile). Does anyone know what this is comparable to on the test that everyone on this board has taken?

Also... I did poorly in math: 59 out of 80, but perfectly in english: 80 out of 80; there isn't possibly anything that would honor my english score, is there?

By Emily OLeary on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:07 pm: Edit

Also, I don't know yet if I am or will be a Semi-Finalist, my score sheet says I was nominated. Someone on this board said that almost everyone in the top percentile became a semi-finalist.

By rcd on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Our tests had 3 sections with a maximum of 80 points each. I believe semifinalists are the top 1/2 of 1% for each state. I've never heard of an alternate form PSAT - where did you take it?

By Calquest on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Emily: PSAT tests have three sections: math, writing, and verbal, each worth a max. of 80 points each...hence all these scores you read about in the 200's. Are you certain you're looking at a PSAT score sheet? Also, what HS year are you in? Jr? Sr?

By Calquest on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:34 pm: Edit

Calmom: If a student holds off identifying a first choice college until May, wouldn't they lose out on priority scholarships from the school they choose? Basically, although technically it's OK to wait, would it be too lae?

By Emily OLeary on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 03:58 pm: Edit

oooooh thanks... i didn't count the writing section.... my score is (calculating...)... only 219 (I got 80 on writing)... hmmmm I thought writing was unimportant

By Calquest on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 04:45 pm: Edit

I can understand your eliminating the "writing" section. When students try to calculate what their SAT I might be, they generally add the verbal and math portions and then put a zero on the end. But for the NMSC semifinalist, all three sections on the PSAT are counted.

219 is excellent and would make you at least commended. Whether or not it's enough for semifinalist, depends on the state...for most states, 219 would do it.

Good luck!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Hey, Calquest! Good to see your phosphors.
Keep me [us?] posted on how your daughter's apps
go. Best of luck!

So I dragged my daughter to the bookstore yesterday to get the Kaplan Prep book for both the Math IIC, which she'll take in June, and the Writing, which she'll re-take in October (given everything else, she should beat a 730). She's kinda grousing that it's not really necessary, that no one else is being this obsessive...and we run into not one, but two other guys from her AP History class and their fathers, at the College Prep shelves. LOL!

And this is only one bookstore on the Westside of Los Angeles...I think we've got a few.

This is kinda the reverse of the "if everyone else jumped off the roof, would you jump off the roof?" question...I don't care what other people are doing, you need to do what _you_ need to do.

By Calquest on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Thedad: I've learned that those kids doing the best and saying that they're not working are often the most obsessed. To the non-observant, those kids seem like natural geniuses, but often work very, very hard for what they get.

Your daughter's lucky to have you taking such an interest. (and, of course, the requisite "will thank you some day"....followed by the equally requisite "we should live so long.") My daughter has actually expressed her gratitude because, unfortunately, she's seen so many of her classmates call me for advice and virtually all of her "study" materials have been circulating for about two years now. So she knows that not every parent is so involved. I suspect your daughter knows too, tho'!

(Talk about getting off the thread.)

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 03:00 am: Edit

Calquest, too bad this system doesn't support a
"chat" function, for on a delayed basis, that's
what we're doing.

Daughter actually started reading the "applications process" part of PR's THE ELITE COLLEGES tonight. Upper of the day was getting PSAT-induced e-mail from Yale. Bummer of the day was a semester grade of "B" in Physics...one of the highest grades in the class but still.... The instructor gave the same test to the regular test as she did her AP class, the only difference being the AP class had to do one more problem on the last section. And she [the instructor] keeps forgetting that the non-AP class hasn't had Calc yet. Fume, vent.
This, too, shall pass. I just hope it doesn't wind up screwing up her ranking too much.

By Calquest on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Thedad, true, the ranking is important, however,(as usual) a suggestion: For your daughter's recollection, keep a note with this transcript explaining the B exactly as you did above. Then, if, by the time she fills out apps, if necessary she can explain it. Like if all the other grades are A's and it's the only B (in which case, would you accept a check or prefer credit card for an easily alterable-in the name portion-copy of her transcript?).

By the way, do you get copies of her transcript on a regular basis? Every semester, I get two copies, one official, one unofficial, from the counseling office. The reason for getting both is to see if there's any difference. Also, I can check for errors and constantly know rank, GPA, etc.

Yes, it is too bad there isn't a chat. But you seem to post at 3 AM...is that CA time? What kind of a thing is that!! I do feel guilty when I go off the nature of a post tho'. There's e-mail..is that you're e-mail under "Thedad?"

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 02:45 pm: Edit

Duh. Drop me an e-mail any time.

The times on the board are Eastern...I normally
make a run of all my boards before going to
bed.

By katerussell85 on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 04:23 pm: Edit

I also recieved a letter from the University of Houston congratulating me, even though I didn't recieve any other sort of notice. Is the percentile national or state-wide? Just curious. Any help would be appreciated.

By AndyMc on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Hey, I am a junior from FL and recently scored a 216 on the PSAT. I've found this thread particularly helpful in my understanding of the NMS. I have only one question: On the score sheet I noticed a not near my year of graduation estimating 1.3 million test takers for the PSAT. If this were the case, would not the top 1% (13,000 individuals) almost universally enter into the semi-finalist group which I have read to be 16,000. I realize that the representation is chosen by state but an above post mentioned the top .5% entering the semi-finalist round.
I suppose I lied above when I claimed to have only one question. I just thought of another: If I have an unweighted high school GPA of ~ 3.6 but I have only had 2 classes (two years of band) that have not been IB/AP. Do the actual courses come into consideration and will my 3.6 hurt my standing? My SAT score is only a 1390 (frustraitingly I earned a higher score on english, my weak area). Assuming I fail to raise this score when I take it again in the spring, how badly will this score reflect on me. I know it is sub-par for NMS consideration but does it sound like all is lost?

By Calquest on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 06:28 pm: Edit

AndyMc: The letter to Semifinalists says, "...as one of approximately 16,000 high school seniors who are Semifinalists..." So, I wouldn't worry about absolute numbers. 200 seems to be the usual score for Commended, so you're probably safe there. A few years ago, Florida's cutoff for Semi was 213...I'm sure someone (from FL) will post a more recent figure. You'll probably have to wait on this, but I bet you'll be OK.

As a Semifinalist, you'll have to submit your transcript, so they'll see the grades, but, honestly, I don't think you need to worry about this. The essay and recs. are really important, apparently. Also, seems I remember hearing that as long as you have at least a 1350 (could even be 1300) on the SAT, you're OK.

Therefore, all in all, keep your GPA up and, all the other things being good, you're probably on safe ground.

Good luck!

By matt on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 01:30 am: Edit

does anyone know last years cuttoff for semi finalist in washington state, or at least an estimate, I havent been able to find one anywhere. thanks!!

By brandon on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Has anyone heard if the MN finalist have been named. A school in Alabama has their 2003 finalist listed on their website. Does every school find out at the same time? Thanks for your help.

By rex on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 11:16 pm: Edit

That Alabama school was Montgomery Academy in Alabama. Has anyone else heard that they were named as a 2003 finalist? If so, how and when did you receive the notice? Through the school or at home? Many thanks.

By Tim (Tim) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 12:36 am: Edit

I was told last week at school that I was a finalist. It's not that big of a deal, though, almost everyone who is semi-finalist becomes a finalists - it's just a check to make sure your grades and SATs match your PSATs.

Tim

By annam on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 01:56 am: Edit

i just found out that i made it to finalist standing...now that i know i'll be able to get scholarship money, i was wondering if anyone else knew any good schools that will give good finalist scholarships. thanks.

By natalie on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 03:56 pm: Edit

How can I change my first choice school that I initially put on my semi-finalist app?

By rex on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 05:43 pm: Edit

I'm a bit concerned. I haven't heard anything either way. Any semifinalists out there who still haven't heard either way regarding 2003 finalist status???????????

By Tim (Tim) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 07:18 pm: Edit

"now that i know i'll be able to get scholarship money"

Only about half the finalists get a scholarship, unless you mean the scholarships schools give to all semifinalists... They're usually not the elite schools though.

Tim

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Flipping through the week's mail, noticed that
Carleton--a damn fine LAC if you don't mind
freezing your nards off in Minnesota--give
NM Finalists a $5,000 scholarship. Tuition + room & board = $30,000 plus. Still, it's better than a kick in the head.

By fillmore on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:49 pm: Edit

Natalie -

The packet my son received when he was named a semi-finalist included a yellow postcard that could be used to change the first-choice college.

By Shennie (Shennie) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Natalie-

You can also call NMSC and they can help you with this.

By vivmaster on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Fillmore, I got my finalist letter yesterday, but unfortunately misplaced my semifinalist packet. That packet definitely had the list of sponsor colleges, and if you wouldn't mind, could you do me a favor and check which of the following are sponsor colleges?

New York University
Columbia University
University of Chicago
University of Pennsylvania

I need to change my 1st choice. Any help is greatly appreciated!

By Calquest on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Below, I've listed whether the specific college is mentioned or not. However, on the blue sheet, NMSC does have "...a few additional colleges may make arrangements with NMSC to sponsor scholarships in 2003." So, it may be best to check a site or call the school. Anyways:
NYU - Listed
Columbia University - Not listed
University of Chicago - Listed
University of Pennsylvania - Not listed.

By vivmaster on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 10:20 pm: Edit

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This is a very helpful forum.

By CalDad on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:51 am: Edit

My son advanced to Finalist standing per official communication we received at home from NMSC. We are yet to hear from his school. It is a long, drawn-out process.

By rex on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 07:02 pm: Edit

I received notification in the mail. When my parents contacted the school, they had to "track down" the certificate.......... Kinda wierd how some schools really go all out recognizing finalists and others (like mine) are just ho-hum... Oh well, my school sucks anyway...

By rcd on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Hey - all the low B and C students signing athletic letters of intent with Junior Colleges and Tier III schools made the 6 and 10 o clock news last week. National Merit Finalists get in the newspaper (next to twirling awards) when your parents send in a paragraph. Who says Americans don't have great values!!!

By autodidact on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 03:43 am: Edit

Greetings and congratulations to all newly notified finalists and to those still sweating it out. My daughter's letter arrived this afternoon, two days after some others at her regional academy, so we commiserate. I just got back from the school board meeting. The AD cum Dean of Students cum HS Principal didn't mention a word about her award, so I asked him if he'd gotten any mail from NM. I want to make sure the certificate which was mentioned in the official letter that is "to be presented to the student" doesn't get lost or destroyed like her original application-before she ever saw it. He indicated he hasn't received anything yet. As an aside, he told our board "they shouldn't expect any academic upswing next week, since there is the chance that either our boys' or girls' basketball teams may be playing every night that week in tournaments (until they are eliminated and then they're done) and the kids would be tired from all of the late nights." I wish he'd make the same allowance for my daughter this M when she spends the better part of a week taking AP exams, but since she's the only one taking them, I daresay that won't be the case. A wrestler goes to state (he got beat in the first round, I think) in a class 1 (dinky)school and they held a pep rally. Big deal--he had problems with aggression off the mat too, not to mention was a bigot. Compete against approx. 1.3 million (and local ignorance) and you get diddly squat--the school hadn't acknowledged much less congratulated her previously on a NM Commended designation and All-American Scholar as a soph.,leadership and service award (Jr.), two international foreign language awards (Soph./Jr.),AP Scholar with Distinction as a junior, APID, and NM Semi-Finalist, so I doubt they remember to invite her to awards ceremony. They prefer to establish pseudo-awards of class officers with no responsibilities other than to smile for yearbook photos--and of course they meet at a time unavailable to my daughter due to her class and transportation schedule. The old high school principal even told last year's school board that National Merit wasn't that big of a thing-most of our kids don't take part. Most couldn't take part as they have no advanced, accelerated, honors, or until this semester (limited) online opportunities which coincidentally none of the others risked, and they can't seem to break a 23 in Math on the ACT--even after taking the prep classes. Can you tell we have "philosophical differences?" All pictures are taken during seminar (when she's not there,)and list my daughter as not present. Since she was the only qualifier, I'm interested to see what empty wall they take a picture of!

By beentheredad on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 06:59 am: Edit

Hey autodidact, Wonderful paragraph! rcd, you hit the nail on the head! However, there is a great equalizer called college and life. Keep your head up! My older child made NM finalist a few years ago. He basically received the same treatment that you have described while the meatheads got all of the glory. But the great equalizers are taking over. He just graduated with honors from a major university and will enter med school this fall... just about the time that most of the types that rcd described will enter prison or join the welfare rolls. College and life aren't necessarily fair but they certainly equalize the playing field very much more than high school officials who can't spell National Merit much less recognize the significance of it.......... My second child just made NM finalist.... I had nothing to do with it. It's a blessing from God. Although I may be letting pride take over, the high school double standard is frustrating. But this time, we know the great equalizers will make things right! Just hang in there and hold your head up...

By Calquest on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Beentheredad, I certainly agree with you and sympathize with Autodidact. We have sport coaches acting as counselors with such consequences as, apparently, one of them telling a student he didn't have to take any SAT II's. (Which this poor senior didn't until January when he figured things out on his own.) The sport trophy case faces the main road, the academic trophy case is hidden in the interior of the campus...and you have to do a U-turn to even find it..which is just as well anyway, since there isn't really anything to see.

My daughter's opinion is "That's OK, someday they'll work for me."

By Eric on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 08:09 pm: Edit

I would just like to let all of the semifinalists out there know that I did make it to finalist, even with an SAT as low as 1310. I think the cutoff is 1300. I did have a strong essay though, a 3.94 GPA, (weighted) class rank of 4 out of 419, and ten AP classes taken throughout High School, including six my senior year. I think the 10% that they eliminate must either mess up filling out / turning in the form, have been suspended or something, or have a SAT below 1300. Hope this helps someone.

By Calquest on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:51 pm: Edit

Eric, congratulations to you and thank you for sharing that info.

By Worrymom (Worrymom) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 06:23 pm: Edit

I'm sorry but I don't think the move from semifinalist to finalist is as automatic as one would think. My daughter who has a weighted 4.11 gpa, 1470 sat from junior year, did not get finalist because of her grades according to their letter. She had two C's during her sophomore year (D for one semester and B for the next semester that averaged out to C's). So everybody keep your grades up and apparently all four years count. Good activities and everything else as far as I could see. We're not stressing over it; she's got a nice scholarship to a state school, but to set the record straight it is not quite as automatic as some would think.

By Worrymom (Worrymom) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 06:27 pm: Edit

I'm sorry but I don't think the move from semifinalist to finalist is as automatic as one would think. My daughter who has a weighted 4.11 gpa, 1470 sat from junior year, did not get finalist because of her grades according to their letter. She had two C's during her sophomore year (D for one semester and B for the next semester that averaged out to C's). So everybody keep your grades up and apparently all four years count. Good activities and everything else as far as I could see. We're not stressing over it; she's got a nice scholarship to a state school, but to set the record straight it is not quite as automatic as some would think.

By AndyMc on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 11:01 pm: Edit

I'd just like to mention that at my school, all six of our semifinalists moved on to finalist standing. I also learned recently that they are debating a 213/214 cut off for the class of 2004 in Florida. I was curious as to whether or not PSAT scores are considered at all during the finalist selection process. Could anyone drop a link to a website that goes over the entire semifinalist application and the selection process?

By Whzup444 (Whzup444) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Hi! I'm from Pennsylvania and I'm a Junior who took the PSAT back in Fall 2002. I received a 680 Verbal, 730 Math, 730 Writing, for a overall index of 214, which ranked in the 99% percent tile according to my prinout. I've received no notification about semi-finalists, finalist, or commendation standings, although i feel i did make it at least into one of the categories. When do they actually send out all this information in PA? Anyone else in PA get this information yet?

By Kalitiha (Kalitiha) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 03:53 pm: Edit

You won't get that information until late August. However, be prepared that you might not make it as index cutoffs differ by state. I am a Finalist with a 219 and a 1390--but I've since gotten it up to a 1470. In Iowa, the cutoff was 208, but on the East coast, competition is more fierce. The cutoff for the DC area last year was like 222. Also, if you make semifinalist, be sure to actually work at doing well on your confirmation SAT. My combined math and verbal PSAT was 139, and luckily I got 1390 or else I may have not qualified. I have a friend that mysteriously got a 1290, the lowest score she's ever gotten by an extreme margin, and she didn't make it. As long as you do as well as your PSAT M&V on the SAT, and you fill out the application form, you should do fine and make Finalist status. Either that, or move to Mississippi where the cutoff is like 200.

By Whzup444 (Whzup444) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 04:22 pm: Edit

Actually, thats funny because i got a 1410 on the PSAT but had a really bad run on the SAT with a 1290. I now go to an SAT Tutor and i've been breaking 1500 on the last few tests, so i think i'll have no problem beating 1410 when it comes to the May SAT test.

By Kalitiha (Kalitiha) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Yeah, don't forget that you need to specify to have your score sent to the National Merit Scholarship Corporation, but I would wait to do that until you've been nominated, so you will have to take the test in October or November for it to count.

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 06:01 pm: Edit

NM semifinalist do NOT need to take the SAT in October or November after they are selected in September of their senior year ( if they have already taken it and have gotten a "respectable" score - I don't know the inner workings of the mysterious NMSC process but I do know of a student with an SAT in the low 1300's who made the finalist cut )

Our daughter, who is currently a senior, took the PSAT in October 2001, the SAT in November 2001, and requested that her SAT scores be sent to the National Merit Scholarship Corporation in January 2002. When she was named a National Merit Semifinalist in September 2002, we confirmed with the NMSC that they would accept previous SAT scores. They said that they already had them on file and she did not need to retake the SAT. She was selected as a Finalist in February 2003.

By Kalitiha (Kalitiha) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Cool, thanks for the info. I'm a Finalist myself and I didn't know that bit of information. I just assumed that you needed to retake when the NMSC had contacted you.

By Medusa2003 (Medusa2003) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 08:18 am: Edit

Congratulations on being selected as a finalist. NMSC's literature isn't particularly clear about this point. If anyone needs an official answer on National Merit questions, I would suggest calling the National Merit Scholarship Corporation directly. The Carleton College website carleton.edu has quite a bit of good information about manuveuring through the National Merit process.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 10:21 am: Edit

The most important thing to remember, other than to take the PSAT as a junior, of course, is that you must validate the PSAT with an SAT score, regardless of when it is taken. I know of at least two students who didn't realize that the "Q" stood for Qualifying and just established the pool, they weren't advised (reminded) to take the SAT, and when they didn't they were dead in the water, another cancelled a test with score choice (certain they could do better) and then was sick on the last testing op. Their parents and students were sick at heart to say the least.

By Slash2049 (Slash2049) on Monday, March 17, 2003 - 05:45 pm: Edit

To Worrymom...I think that they might just have had something out for your daughter. During my sophomore year I had a C in English and World History one semester following major knee surgery.
Of course I did get a 220 PSAT and 1530 SAT. But I feel certain I was nowhere near getting cut from finalist standing. Of course I live in TN...and the standards are always low here.

And to Autodidact... Being not only a four AP class taking senior and academic competition winner several times, but also a two sport four year letterer and all-state quarterback...I am sorry to find out that your daughter could not find time in her schedule to do everything, but it can be done. And while your daughter may not get recognition from her high school...who cares? It's high school...let them congratulate those who'll never go as far as she will....she's already been rewarded by National Merit and will continue on into college while her classmates will hang up their high school awards on the walls. So chill out and get over it.

By Timdawnme (Timdawnme) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Do people study for PSAT, or are there books or courses like for the SAT? As a sophomore, my daughter got a 199 on her PSAT this past fall, with no preparation or studying. I assume she'd do a little better next year, just by virtue of another year of schooling, but I'd like her to have a shot at a National Merit Scholarship. Any suggestions? Thanks

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 07:32 pm: Edit

My daughter took Princeton Review's tutoring before the PSAT and first SAT...they were only two weeks apart. I think it helped; ymmv.

By Ladydi (Ladydi) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 03:05 am: Edit

Does anyone know where or how to locate a list of the 2003 National Merit Semifinalists and Commended Students by state? I'm interested in this year's results for Florida.
I haven't been able to find any info via the popular search engines (google, yahoo, etc.), and the NM website has no info or links. Help!