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By Rubbernecking (Rubbernecking) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 07:30 am: Edit

How flexible is Penn about grades and class rank?
For example, what would my chances be with a 3.1-3.3 gpa if I got all As senior year and had 1530/800/790/770 on SATs?

By Dostoyevsky (Dostoyevsky) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:22 am: Edit

yea....if my grades are 89, 90, 94 (unweighted in the hardest curriculum) for each yr of high school respectively, and my class rank is 44/515, would my chances at penn be hurt a lot? (i have a 1580/800/790/760/750 and GREAAAAT ECs)

By Electrifish (Electrifish) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:23 pm: Edit

It seems to be that Penn cares more about personal qualities and grades more than test scores. I know people with excellent test scores who didn't get in because their class rank/grades were not outstanding and they didn't have a solid EC background.
If you want your chances to be heightened, it's important that your GPA and class rank are high/ivy league quality. A 3.1 GPA (86) is not Ivy League quality. I would assume anywhere above a 3.5 would be better. Your high test scores only prove you know how to take standardized tests - not how to do well in school.
Your senior year grades only help you if you're borderline. Say they can't decide whether to reject you or to admit you...you then send your first quarter grades and they see they're real high. That might push you over the edge.

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:37 pm: Edit

I would agree with electricfish. Penn weights grades/rank much more heavily than they do SATs. My regional rep told me last year that they really like to see bright students with some great personal qualities including leadership,etc. She told me that they like to see high test scores but coupled with outstanding grades. They really don't like to see someone with high test scores and a GPA that isn't outstanding. It shows them that you have great potential but you're not working to it - so in essence they might see someone in this case as lazy.

By Regulus (Regulus) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:46 pm: Edit

It might just be me, but I find that a LOT of Penn students were stellar athletes in high school. I was in varsity football and track (captain) and this almost seems like commonplace at Penn.

By Bern700 (Bern700) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Nice to see you back on here Regulus!! I'll see you during some crazy NSO parties.

I too was captain of my soccer team both varsity at school and club.

By Knightmare (Knightmare) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:50 pm: Edit

I did varsity soccer and varsity track

By Iluvme (Iluvme) on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

so does it look good if you play on a varsity sport even if you do not plan to play in college beyond club or intermurals??? for example i played 3 years varsity volleyball (captain/mvp) but def can't play incollege..duz it still look good that i played?

ALSO wat if u hav a greap GPA/rank but lack luster test scores?? i hav a 1400 SAT 1 and only 690/700 SAT II (need to tak writing).......BUT i hav well over a 4.0 and am ranked 2/400something.....how does this square up in admissions versus higher test scores and low rank/gpa ??????????

By Knightmare (Knightmare) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:01 am: Edit

Yes it looks good, because it shows dedication, commitment, well roundedness, and leadership. It seems that Penn would rather see a high rank/GPA and mediocre scores than the other way around. However, it's ideal to have everything good, so retake those tests if you can. SAT II are probably more important for you to retake.

By Electrifish (Electrifish) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Hey, I didn't play any sports in high school. And I'm not some outstanding intellectual figure either. I had a 1440 on SATs and I was number 7 of 400. BUT I will say that I have a lot of interests and cool personal qualities that I really got out through the application. And so, here I am in the most selective program of Penn Engineering, Digital Media Design, which has only 15 acceptees this year.
Also, if you have a major in mind, make sure they know it.

By Iluvme (Iluvme) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 08:30 pm: Edit

electrifish wut were ur SAT II scores?

By Shaka (Shaka) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:10 am: Edit

so what ranks do penn look for? is somewhere in the top 5-6% of 1000 good enough?

By Regulus (Regulus) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:15 am: Edit

Top 10% is the absolute cut-off in most cases. 5% and above is usually standard. Once you get above 3% it comes down to your essays, recs, etc. If you are only top 20% and are amazing in everything else you still have a solid chance, think holistically.

By Kitman15 (Kitman15) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 07:23 am: Edit

is there a penn acceptee that I can email so i can bounce an essay idea off of them? I'd really appreciate it! thanks!

By Dostoyevsky (Dostoyevsky) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 01:24 pm: Edit

regulus....is it kool if we chat and i ask u some qs that pertain more to me (i dont wanna just clutter this board)....you can email me with your aol/aim s/n or we could jus use email....thnx!

By Regulus (Regulus) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Kitman, I don't think there's anyone on this board knowledgeable enough to tell you whether or not your essay idea will work. Use your own judgement; focus on presenting yourself in a genuine way and not in the way you think the adcoms wants to see you. If you have a specific or logistical question I can offer you some advice, I guess. Leave an email or IM SN.

Dostoyevsk, I'll send you an IM later.

By Suprmodl29 (Suprmodl29) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 06:53 pm: Edit

"Once you get above 3% it comes down to your essays, recs, etc."
I think I know what this means, but could u just please clarify? I'm right there: top 2.9% haha. thanksmuch!

By Regulus (Regulus) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 07:36 pm: Edit

It means that if you're in the top 3% you don't have to worry about your class rank. If you're the valedictorian then it's a huge plus but if you're top 5% you're still in the game. 3%+ just tends to be the standard of excellence.

By Pcahill99 (Pcahill99) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 08:01 pm: Edit

nice thing about ED is that I think I was first in my class, got in, subsequently slacked off and ended up graduating third. nothing beats being done with high school in december. :^)

By Bluebaron1616 (Bluebaron1616) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 09:07 pm: Edit

Oh, hmm, what are my chances for Wharton ED.
Rank: 4/300 (but my school won't give the rank to colleges, but that is where I am)

710v 800m (retake)
800 math IIC, 800 bio M, 720 writing (should I retake?) physics-pending.

227 PSAT
AP tests taken: Fr, Bio, BC/AB all 5s
AP US history: did not take test

asian canadian living in US, int'l student.

I can name all my ECs later if you want. I guess the main thing is that I'm a varsity athelte in 2 sports that take a lot of my time.

By Regulus (Regulus) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:00 pm: Edit

As long as you have some very solid EC's you'll be in good shape.

By Dredhead5000 (Dredhead5000) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 12:09 am: Edit

Electrifish, I want to know how important physics is. did you take physics in high school? my college counselor insists that colleges want to see physics on my schedule but i dont have enuf periods to take AP physics (its a double period) and regular physics is just a waste of my time. I have a pretty full schedule besides that. what do you think?

By Pennquaker13 (Pennquaker13) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 12:21 am: Edit

My high school only required that I take two science courses, so I ended up taking Bio and Chem and Greek in senior year instead of Physics. It's no problem as long as you're not trying to major in physics or some other science related major, such as something in Engineering, it shouldn't make any sort of difference. If anything, if you take a more unique course like I did, it can work in your benefit.


Ryan Khajavi
Sigma Nu, BP #1494
University of Pennsylvania, Class of 2007

By Electrifish (Electrifish) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Sorry I haven't posted anything in a while...I'm so busy with getting ready for college, lol. Um...for those who asked, my SAT II scores were as follows: 750 IIC, 800 Writing and 680 Physics...but the SAT I included an 800 on math. Nothing too special, but I guess they saw I was good at math (good for engineering) AND I could write, heh. But I did have solid leadership extracurriculars, etc.

Any of you who want to talk to me online, my AIM screen name is Electrifish, but also FishoftheWeek.

By Electrifish (Electrifish) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:00 pm: Edit

About physics, I took it for 11th and 12th grade (12th grade = AP) but I took it not because it is important but because I absolutely love the subject. Personally, I think it's a good idea to take it, just because it's a pretty well-rounded science and you'll probably have to take it in college at some point if you're doing engineering. As long as the college can see you're challenging yourself with full schedules and hard classes, I think that'll be fine. Unless of course you want to major in something that involves physics, in which case they would like to see you've done some course work pre-college.

By Bluebaron1616 (Bluebaron1616) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Well, I did go to PGSS, which was a defining moment of my life.
I'm also helping to program websites using JSP for penn state.
Plus some math clubs etc.

I'm going to try to get into the Jerome Fisher program though...which'll be hard as heck.

By Electrifish (Electrifish) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 12:15 pm: Edit

any other questions about the application/admissions?

By Musicbuster007 (Musicbuster007) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Hi,
Yeah,.. I was wondering if I should apply ED to Upenn to the MNT program because I really like business but I also really like the idea of being an engineer. I was looking at Columbia SEAS, GATech, Cornell, UConn, and MIT and possibly JHU. I want to attend a well-known school but I don't know which one to go for. I know Upenn has a great business school and a decent engineering school. Please help me out.

My Stats:
SAT: 1460 (760 m) retaking
SAT II: 780 2C, 750 writing, 740 Bio, 740 Chem
EC and Other:
Started, got $ and is prez of Pingpong club
Classboard 9-12, 11= treasurer
Math Team 9-12
Interact 11-12 sent books to Ghana
Travel award to Costa Rica
Leadership Scholarship Program (1 wk Outward Bound trip to CO)
Lawfirm internship (summer of Jnr yr)
Started own mini e-business - sorta successful
about 4 sports awards for Volleyball (9,10= JV; 11,12=Varsity)
trinity book award
some other regional and town wide math and academic awards

I really don't know because I have seen other ppl's resume on CC and they are all very unsure about their prospects even though they have crazy national this that award. But please give me some advice! Thanks!

By Musicbuster007 (Musicbuster007) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 02:08 pm: Edit

oh i should add to provide more info that I got 5 on Eng. Lang and Bio and 4 on Chem and US History and that I got 220 on PSAT.. thanks

By Regulus (Regulus) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 03:58 pm: Edit

The program is called M&T (Management & Technology). I assume you know that it's insanely competitive. I recommend that you give it a shot anyway, because you can pick a fallback school (SEAS or Wharton) should not get accepted to the joint-degree program.

By Sodfather (Sodfather) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 05:20 pm: Edit

To any of you Penn experts,

How do you go about sending Penn November 6th SAT I/II test scores when you're applying ED by November 1st? Is there an option on the College Board site to rush scores to a certain school (for a fee, I presume)? And do I have to call/e-mail the admissions office and notify them that my scores will be rushed?

Thanks,
Keith

By Regulus (Regulus) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 05:50 pm: Edit

You don't have to rush the scores but it'd be nice to give them a heads up. Better yet, take the tests earlier if you can.

By Sodfather (Sodfather) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Reg,

The reason I ask is because (as you suggested in my other thread) I plan to take the SAT II's in October, and then if those scores are okay, re-take the SAT I's in November. Those are my last two possible dates on which to test to make the Early Decision testing deadline.

By Regulus (Regulus) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Okay, sounds like a good plan. You don't have to rush your November scores though, but call the admissions office and let them know they're coming in.

By Baghdadbob (Baghdadbob) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 08:10 pm: Edit

Sodfather,

You can even have your counselor call up the admission office if the scores are better. I had my counselor do that and at the same time tell them I got straight A's my first quarter in senior year. It is kind of a way to add two positive things to your application before they decide whether they will accept, reject or defer you.

By Baghdadbob (Baghdadbob) on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Just a little comment about "high test scores vs. low GPA/class rank"

I think having high test scores, but a low GPA actually works against you. With high test scores colleges know that you are bright, when they look at your GPA it seems like you were lazy and didn't perform to your full potential. It is very difficult on an application to explain why your grades are low, which might be a problem for everyone with 1580's on the SAT, but 3.4 GPAs (unweighted).

By Sodfather (Sodfather) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Baghdadbob,

Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm sure my counselor would be glad to do that when the time comes.

By Bartoastt (Bartoastt) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 05:24 pm: Edit

What if you have a high GPA (94 unweighted) in the highest classes your school offers (9 APs), but your SAT I's are less than stellar, for example a 1330? Im just really worried that my SAT score will really hurt me. Although i have a solid GPA, a 32 ACT, and high SAT II's...will my low SAT be a big problem at Penn?

By Baghdadbob (Baghdadbob) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Penn promises that they will go with the highest scores you have. Therefore, if your 32 on the ACT is better than your SAT I score and your SAT II scores they will use that as your standardized test score. I would recommend taking the SAT I's a second time if you plan on applying early decision. You can do so in October or November and then if your SAT I's improve you will have nothing to worry about. In reality, Penn seems to focus more on GPA/rank. If you can get your SAT I's up that is just another plus for you. I think with good essays and recs you can have an amazing impact.

By Pennhomie33 (Pennhomie33) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Question: When do we start sending in our SAT scores? We just click "Release Scores" on our Collegeboard site right, and send them to Penn? Are there fees for sending our scores? When exactly should we send them?

By Regulus (Regulus) on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 09:30 pm: Edit

I believe you fill out a list of colleges to send your SATs to when you register for the test/tests. You get the first three colleges included with the registration fee; any after that are extra.

By Sodfather (Sodfather) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:11 am: Edit

"I believe you fill out a list of colleges to send your SATs to when you register for the test/tests."

That's stupidity on College Board's behalf. How many kids really have their colleges chosen by halfway through junior year, and even the early fall of senior year?

By Regulus (Regulus) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 03:37 am: Edit

All the kids on this board.

By Dostoyevsky (Dostoyevsky) on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:32 pm: Edit

regulus: soooo true....even i knew that i was applying to penn in march (although i had no idea where else i would apply)....

sodfather: collegeboard tries to send the "we give a good deal with free score reports" message to its customers...collegeboard realizes however that the results of the SATs actually impact kids decisions on where to apply, so those kids will probably end up deciding later (thus paying for the score reports anyway)....collegeboard basically sends this message of being "nice" without losing any money (because most people end up sending the reports later)....when people realize they have to pay for score reports (which are required by most colleges), the people blame themselves for not taking advantage of the free offer instead of getting mad at collegeboards prices....its all simple business

By Glinda (Glinda) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 07:12 pm: Edit

I went to the Penn Pre-College program this summer and took two courses. I got an A and an A+ for them. Will this help me in admissions by showing the adcoms that I can handle their classes at 15?

By Interested123 (Interested123) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit

I think your school has a lot of influence in your acceptance. Like the other day somebody from harvard-westlake was telling me that 20ish kids are part of the class of 2008, while I was the sole acceptance from an average public school.

By Muppetcoat (Muppetcoat) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 09:52 am: Edit

Hehe... I remember complaining all through high school that Collegeboard was an evil monopoly that had a guaranteed source of revenue by forcing children to take their god forsaken tests. Farking collegeboard and their farking prices.


"the people blame themselves for not taking advantage of the free offer instead of getting mad at collegeboards prices....its all simple business"

By Jared (Jared) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 02:44 pm: Edit

This is really cool what you guys are doing...thanks a lot

Anyways...do you know what you do for teacher recs that arent your 2 subject teachers? In the written app, theres only two forms for recs so I dunno whatd you do there. But in the online app (which I'm doing) I guess there are as many forms as you want; however, the questions on the form are geared to a subject teacher. What if the person writing the rec is a club advisor or your boss at work? Should they just write a letter instead of a form? I really want recs from people other than my 2 subject teachers cuz im really close with one of my club advisors and I thought I might ask my boss at work too.

Thanks

By Crazykidd (Crazykidd) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 11:45 pm: Edit

Can any current Penn undergrad or acceptee talk to me one on one...I'd like you to read/edit my essay for Penn ED and I'm not so into posting it on this board...if you could include your email address or some other way to contact you (sn) I'd really appreciate it

By Infinity (Infinity) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

Could someone anwer Jared's question? I am wondering the same thing.

By Popo (Popo) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit

How long are your Why Penn essays?

By Bartoastt (Bartoastt) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 09:28 pm: Edit

In terms of recs, I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm definetly getting one from my AP Chem teacher who had me for two years which should be excellent. On the second one, I was going to ask my AP US History teacher. He had me last year and is now my NHS advisor (I'm VP), so we still talk and such. But I want to major in history and I dont think he really sees me as much of an intellectual. Plus he always does like 50 recs, so he might not give as much attention to mine.

The other day, my AP Art History teacher offered me a rec. I've only had her the fall of my senior year, but apparently shes really "impressed" by me. And she knows how much I love art history and we've been like exchanging art history books and stuff. She's really great and I would rather get a rec from her than my AP US teacher. I think she just sees me as a more of a intellectual than my US teacher. Like, he taught me history for a whole year and didnt even remember that I wanted to major in history.

So, if should I take the rec from my art history teacher, even though I've only had her as a teacher for a short period of time?

By Jared (Jared) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 09:39 pm: Edit

haha thanks infinity for supporting me...hopefully somebody will answer us but if not I'm going to call Penn on Monday and ask. I'll let you know what they say.

By Interested123 (Interested123) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 01:02 am: Edit

My supplementary recommender (also a boss) just wrote a letter.

By Jared (Jared) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 05:26 pm: Edit

For anyone who wants to know about recs, I called Penn today and they said just have the person write a one-page letter. There are no restrictions on the letter or what the letter should be about - just that it is one page. Hope that clears it up for everyone.