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Can't we all just get along?


The end of the writer's bio is the best. =)

By Coureur (Coureur) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 10:00 am: Edit

It's a byproduct of being number one. Some people are automatically going to hate you for it. We see it all the time right here on CC. Being on top paints a big target on your back.

People like to see success, but not TOO much success. Harvard University, The NY Yankees, Disney, Nike, McDonalds, Microsoft, and The United States of America are all hugely successful organizations that a certain segment of the population just loves to hate.

By Monoe (Monoe) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 10:42 am: Edit

Dude, you stole my line.

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/messages/57277/83221.html#POST727303

By Sakky (Sakky) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 01:15 pm: Edit

I'm not surprised. People love to hate, and for the stupidest reasons. Soccer fans will riot and kill each other. The Maracana soccer stadium in Rio de Janeiro has a full moat (yes, with water) between the playing field and the fans, and just outside that moat is a ring of police officers with dogs. This ensures that irate Brazilian soccer fans don't mob the playing field to attack the opposing team or the refs. What's even more amazing is that occassionally some fans still manage to breach all that to attack opposing players and/or refs. I remember last year (2003) when the Oakland Raiders lost the Superbowl, hooligans in Oakland rioted.

And, I don't want to get overly political, but you also have the tragically morbid spectacle of people engaging in murderous hate because they resent other people's success so much that it spurs them to kill. This was one of the pillars of anti-Semitism - Jews were and still are hated not only because they were different, but also because they were and are successful. The same thing is true of Chinese immigrants, especially the Chinese in Southeast Asia, who've been persecuted and killed partly because of their success. Witness the fierce anti-Chinese riots in Indonesia in 1946-7 and again in 1998, or the race riots in Malaysia of the 60's, or the persecutions, rapes, and murders suffered by the Vietnamese boat people (most of who were ethnic Chinese who lived in Vietnam) in the late 70's, or the expulsion of the Chinese from Manila in the 18th century. To quote Sowell: "Everywhere the basic problem is the same. The vivid contrasts between their own poverty and Chinese commercial affluence which angered the farmers of Malaysia has outraged similar peasant peoples around the world..." (p. 28, Sowell, 'The Economics and Politics of Race') The same could be said for Indian immigrants (from India). Witness the brutal 1972 forced expulsion of all Indians, most of who were professionals or shopkeepers, from Uganda.


So, all you Harvard people, don't feel that bad. At least people aren't trying to kill you because they resent your success.

By Webhappy2 (Webhappy2) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Well, the Chinese in Southeast Asia helped exacerbate the situation by showing their open contempt of the ethnic majorities as inferior people.

By Sakky (Sakky) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 10:13 pm: Edit

Yeah, but aren't certain behavior-patterns ripe for contempt?

Consider this quote:

"Whatever the Malays could do, the Chinese could do better and more cheaply." That was most likely said by a Chinese-Malay race hustler, right? Or perhaps one of the inflammatory hyper-ethnic Chinese tong societies that existed in Malaysia maybe 30 years ago, right? Uh uh. No dice. That quote was said by none other than Dr. Mohammed Mahathir, who later became Prime Minister of Malaysia for more than 20 years, and just recently stepped down upon which he uttered some rather infamous anti-Semitic remarks that made the news. Whatever you might say about Mahathir, he's certainly no Chinese patriot.

If you want to read the context - go right ahead. It's from Mahathir's own book, "The Malay Dilemma", on page 25. In fact, that whole section goes to talk about how Malays need preferential policies (basically, affirmative action) to help the Malays by pushing the Chinese down because to paraphrase Mahathir, the Chinese simply work and study much harder than the Malays do, and so the Malays are therefore no match in a fair competition against the Chinese. Hence, the competition has to be made unfair to the Chinese in order for the Malays to have any chance. Remember, these are Mahathir's words, not mine. And remember this is in a coutry where the Malays make up the majority of the population and have had political control of the country since independence from the UK.

So when you talk about contempt, you have to put it in the right context. Mahathir himself, one of the most prominent Malays in history, also had something you could call contempt (or at least a great dislike) of the fact that Malays simply don't have the work-ethic or the study-ethic that the Chinese do. And this is not just true only of Malaysia. No matter where you are, irresponsible behavior is a characteristic deserving of derision.

By Foreigngrad (Foreigngrad) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 03:32 am: Edit

The incident occured at a Phili boathouse and the context was rowing. Clearly an element of envy played a role here, after Harvard (men/heavy) kicked everybody's ass on the water this year (including the British and French national teams at Lucerne, falling at Henley only to the Dutch national team that yesterday qualified for the Olympic men's 8+ grand final by winning their repechage).

Other than that Coureur's lines caught it pretty well (except that I would attribute the hatred against the US in general - as manifested in 9/11 - to slightly other reasons than envy about "too much success").

By Coureur (Coureur) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 08:44 am: Edit

You are right - there are significant reasons other than an excess of success why some people hate the USA (but that IS one of the factors), so let's take the US out of the list and add California in its place.

By Nj777 (Nj777) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:14 am: Edit

also add the sport of soccer to the list

By Boogieshoes (Boogieshoes) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:39 am: Edit

i'm sure the editor is exaggerating. i'm sure there were some people there who did call him names and criticized him, but he makes it sounds like every single person there did that. and who knows--since he rows for another team, feelings of resentment and rivalry are common. i know from being on a ncaa team that there are certain teams you just don't like, and if you encounter an individual from that team, you tend to have a negative opinion of that person. it just happens.

also...coureur--you're sounding *just a tad cocky. i don't like it when people get into the "you're just jealous" reasoning. it's not like harvard is THE BEST school, and every other school that is "lower" hates it. penn, which the editor mentions, is very close to being at the top, and there is no reason why the students there would hate harvard.

By Newyorker06 (Newyorker06) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:50 am: Edit

Of course there is, Boogieshoes. Penn has long been considered the bottom-dweller of the Ivy League, more an extension of high school than a first-rate university. They could fill whole dorms with HYP rejects. Believe me, there is plenty of reason for envy.

By Ambitiousyokel (Ambitiousyokel) on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 08:00 am: Edit

^Man, what a dick! I believe in my crimson heart that Harvard is the best school in the country, but at the same time I know Penn's a hell of a school, too. Compared with the community colleges and state U's most people in this country attend, Harvard-Penn bickering is like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett arguing over who's richer. Sure, Gates has more money (does he still? sake of the simile) but compared to the rest of us, they're both so f***ing rich it doesn't really matter.

By Newyorker06 (Newyorker06) on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 09:35 am: Edit

True, but Penn students aren't comparing themselves to the dregs of their high schools attending CC's. My point was that they consider themselves HYP-material but haven't gotten over the thin envelope.

By Coureur (Coureur) on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 02:03 pm: Edit

>>also...coureur--you're sounding *just a tad cocky.

Hey, I'm not asserting that Harvard actually IS number one (my personal pick would be Princeton), only that Harvard is widely regarded as number one by the general public. Same for the other organizations on that list. And being ranked number one for a long period of time will often engender a mixture of fascination, admiration, and envy among many observers.

>>and there is no reason why the students there (at Penn) would hate harvard. <<

Actually, there is a reason. Harvard and Penn both compete in the same athletic conference, so that gives them an extra reason for hatred, just as USC hates UCLA.

By 80drofnats (80drofnats) on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:04 pm: Edit

I actually know the kid who wrote that article, and he's an elitist prick who got into harvard for his crew skills, and he comes from a $20,000 a year private school in one of the most priveleged areas in the country.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:18 pm: Edit

I'm not surprised. The tone of the article was annoyingly melodramatic and the style smacks of thinly veiled arrogance.

By Foreigngrad (Foreigngrad) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 12:00 pm: Edit

"Harvard and Penn both compete in the same athletic conference, so that gives them an extra reason for hatred" (Coureur)

I wonder, why some of you guys are so sure that the incident involved Penn students. Adomanis, the author of the article never explicitly said so, but only mentioned: "I journeyed down to West Philadelphia for a barbeque thrown by a local club-rowing program. ... At the barbeque, I was gawked at, I was cursed at, and I was threatened with physical violence."


"...and he comes from a $20,000 a year private school" (drofnats)

If this were true then it would be pretty pathetic of Adomanis, the author, to mention in his article: "Harvard students still take the rap for an era when the Yard was the exclusive domain of Andover, Exeter and St. Paul’s graduates." It was this sentence that actually suggested he was from another quarter. What high school IS he from, drofnats?

By Coureur (Coureur) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 04:34 pm: Edit

>I wonder, why some of you guys are so sure that the incident involved Penn students.

In the sentence just prior to the one you quoted the author specifically states that the trip was to the Penn campus:

"Not the most clear-headed thinking, but exactly the sort of reasoning that was in force on a recent trip of mine to the campus of the University of Pennsylvania."

And later he asks:

"Is it logical for one middle-class, private-school-educated, suburban, Philadelphia rower to hate another simply because one goes to a school in Cambridge and one goes to a school in Philadelphia?"

Referring to "school in Cambridge" and "a school in Philadelphia" while talking about hatred of Harvard while on a trip to the Penn campus strongly implies that the school in Philadelpha is Penn.

By Marite (Marite) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Googling the author, one learns that he attended a private school in PA prior to going to Harvard (oh, treason!)

I don't see why one has to drag in the fact that he attended a $20k a year private school. The author suggest that his private school background is exactly the same as that of his detractors:

"Is it logical for one middle-class, private-school-educated, suburban, Philadelphia rower to hate another simply because one goes to a school in Cambridge and one goes to a school in Philadelphia?"

By Serdu (Serdu) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit

Surprise, surprise.

I've been attacked like that before. People need to stop being so insecure and realize that H students put their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. I sincerely don't appreciate the dirty looks especially when I don't bad-mouth any other schools.

By Serdu (Serdu) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Rowing Shirts + Philly + Ex classmates at a Private School in all likelihood = Penn.

I just put a few things together to figure that out. Didn't mean anything else. Foreigngrad, if you feel *THAT* strongly about it maybe you should contact the author.

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Finally something Sakky and I agree on...

...Harvard is good.

hi sakky

cornellgrad02

By Sakky (Sakky) on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Come now, cornellgrad02, you know that we agree on a lot more than that.

I'll give you another one that I'm sure we agree on. The Berkeley PhD programs are damn good. How about that?

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 01:23 pm: Edit

agreed

By Momsdream (Momsdream) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 10:39 am: Edit

Come on...wake up.

Mark attended the very elite Episcopal Academy on the main line in Philadelphia (big rowing HS). Many of his classmates *chose* Penn. He chose Harvard.

The rowing rivalry is obvious.

Mark then returns to a Penn rowing event wearing his Harvard rowing shirt and acts *oh so* offended when he's heckled by his former classmates and teammates. He's so upset that he writes an article about it all.

Seems like Mark may not be so happy at Harvard, after all.

By Caramelkisses06 (Caramelkisses06) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 02:35 pm: Edit

"Seems like Mark may not be so happy at Harvard, after all."

That's really a bit of a stretch, don't you think? The article said nothing about how he felt about being at school, it was about how he was treated by others. People should stop trying to use every opportunity to say people at Harvard are unhappy.