Yale-chill, Harvard-not?





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Discus: Ivy League Schools: Harvard University: 2004 Archive: Yale-chill, Harvard-not?
By Joe124 (Joe124) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 07:11 pm: Edit

From what I have found, Yale students seems to be chill, while simultaneously having the brains to back it up. Harvard students seem to be cut out of one mold-all overachievers with little else personality-wise. Has anyone else gotten this impression too? I think Yale has to trump Harvard in this respect. The next president will definitely be a Yalie, the last president went to Yale law school, the prez before that graduated Yale. Lieberman and Dean went to Yale. Porter Goss, now head of the CIA, went to Yale. Many members of both houses of Congress went to Yale. What person who achieved great things did NOT go to Yale? I know not.

By Stanfordman99 (Stanfordman99) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 07:18 pm: Edit

Haha, okay I see why Harvard students get frustrated. A lot of needless bashing DOES go on around here. A lot more than I thought. LOL

Well you all know that old saying. Yale sucks, Princeton doesn't matter (and Stanford isn't worth mentioning :) )

By Newyorker06 (Newyorker06) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 07:20 pm: Edit

I'd say that producing hordes of politicians as well as "chill" individuals with oodles of personality is a bit counterintuitive, wouldn't you?

By Caramelkisses06 (Caramelkisses06) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 07:43 pm: Edit

HEY!!!! From this point on, let's all just ignore this blatant attempt to aggravate and start an argument with Harvard students.

By Justice (Justice) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 08:29 pm: Edit

...

considering that the Harvard and Yale pools are identical, (as in almost everyone who applys to Harvard applies to Yale and vice versa)

it's kind of hard to make any statements about the entire student body

that's like saying that everyone from the deep South is retarded since there hasn't been a deep South president ever.

I think you are grossly mixing cause and effect. You can't look at boomer-generation graduates to decide which school currently has a chiller environment.

ahh sorry for feeding the trolls...so tempting

By Monoe (Monoe) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 08:42 pm: Edit

Yale is insecure.

By Ambitiousyokel (Ambitiousyokel) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:43 pm: Edit

Justice, I totally agree with you. Might I add also that Harvard totally owns. However...

"since there hasn't been a deep South president ever"

As a Georgian, I have to answer that. Jimmy Carter didn't have the best four years, but he nevertheless was from Plains, Ga. That's about as Deep South as you can get.

By Willywonka (Willywonka) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Yeah, I thought the funniest part about the original post was using politicians as examples for all of Yale's chill individuals.

It's dangerous to say that all of H students are uptight social climbers. If I get in, I most certainly would not fit your "mold-all," and I can't be the only person. In fact, I was talking to a customer today at the restaurant as I bussed tables-- she had a Harvard sweater on, and we talked about her time there and my (hopefully) future years. She seemed very "Yale," as you would probably put it.

By Bebere87 (Bebere87) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 02:14 am: Edit

I'm not usually one to contribute to needless bashing, but, umm...

Stanfordman, I think the saying goes like this:

Yale rules, Harvard sucks, and Princeton doesn't matter.

Yeah...that sounds more like it. Nothing personal, guys, just a correction that needed to be made. Just a prospective Bulldog here crashing the Crimson board--It won't happen again.

By U2tustp830 (U2tustp830) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 08:34 am: Edit

Yay, Stanfordman finally realizes the truth!Seriously, props to you because most other people don't realize how much bashing goes on here.

And bebere87, just so you know, Stanfordman was just making a joke out of the actual saying.

By Joe124 (Joe124) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:40 am: Edit

Sure he was...that saying comes directly from a YALE t-shirt. How do you like them apples?

It is positively NOT a contradiction to say that being a little more personable leads to political or otherwise success. People who are able to schmooze up other politicians can get them to vote a certain way, get themselves on committees, and form alliances. It's all about the schmoozing. Even in medicine, the doctor that relates best to his/her patient is often the most successful (given that he/she has reasonable technical skills and knowledge base). The lawyer that is personable makes partner, while the drone keeps on chugging away at 100 hr. weeks. It is sad, but true-charm certainly does no harm.

By The_Brain9 (The_Brain9) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 11:25 am: Edit

For better or worse, we Americans are very stubborn in our beliefs; once our minds are made, we generally do not switch opinions. We also live in a mass-consuming society in which stereotypes run rampant throughout public thought. Now, I don't go to Yale and I don't go to Harvard but as long as the public keeps thinking that Harvard is America's top school - then it is going to be the top school no matter how much you whine, complain, prove, or provide statistics to show otherwise.

My sympathies definitely reside with Harvard on this board because there are so many insecure people who bash them in order to justify the choices they have made in life.

Now, even if you are really trying to bring up a valid point backed with statistics and whatnot, can you not discern that this is immediate flame-bait? There is so much bashing on this board that of course you cannot post something like this and expect Harvard students to sit around in a circle and discuss the philosophical and logical implications of your statement. There are only 2 courses of action that led to this.

1. You wanted to start a flaming war.
2. You posted a heartfelt statement and in your stupidity did not realize it would start a flaming war.

Forums like these are constructive places where people seek help from other's experiences; they are not places where people tear down each other. The only reason I am adding fuel to the fire is so it will burn out and extinguish more quickly.

By Joe124 (Joe124) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 11:29 am: Edit

My position is the latter, FYI. Next, my remarks are not caustic-why are you not open to the possiblity that Yale might trump Harvard in certain areas for undergraduate experience? Are you so closed-minded, Mr. let the post vanish/evaporate? Get over yourself. Enough of these posts that consist of-let it dissolve, already. If that is all that you have to say, go elsewhere. Say something constructive for a change. It's like you people operate on tunnel vision-remarkable.

By The_Brain9 (The_Brain9) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:00 pm: Edit

"The only reason I am adding fuel to the fire is so it will burn out and extinguish more quickly."

I think you are the one with tunnel vision. This statement embodies my position on these flame wars: once a thread is started it will most certainly not just "evaporate," instead almost always downward spiraling until the argument gets so inane that nobody posts anymore. I am only facilitating this process and you are inadvertently helping me.

It's people like you who operate on tunnel vision - and I wouldn't have it any other way. :) hah

By The_Brain9 (The_Brain9) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:02 pm: Edit

FYI, I really don't care about which school is better. If this level bashing pervaded the Yale board I would help you out too.

By Nannabanana08 (Nannabanana08) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 02:17 pm: Edit

Joe, I am very embarrassed for you. You come across as very naive and ignorant. I hate to break it to you, but the people that apply to/attend Yale are the same people that apply to/attend Harvard. You called Brain "closed-minded", however it is blatantly obvious from your original post that you are in fact "closed-minded". You made the ridiculous generalization that all Harvard students are "overachievers with little else personality-wise". Well, I am a Harvard student and I pride myself in being very social. I know how to have a good time (and no, Iím not talking about hanging out in the library). I feel very immature myself for responding to your ridiculous post, but I feel very sorry for you and wanted to warn you about how you are coming across to readers of this site. Quit now before you further embarrass yourself, for your own sake.

By Jarahul106 (Jarahul106) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 02:46 pm: Edit

All right guys, no need to turn this into a personal battle. Although Joe's phrasing of the post may have sounded goofy, the question was valid. I read a Crimson article about that very subject, it was like a self-deprecating analysis of why perhaps yale is the social of the two schools. So it was a semi-valid question, but I have a feeling (although im just a prospective student as well) that the kids wont be too different socially since theyre from the same applicant pool, as others have mentioned. People who apply to harvard or yale are generally applying to the other. So I'm guessing that the same sort of people go to the schools. But then again im just speculating

By The_Brain9 (The_Brain9) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 03:09 pm: Edit

I would say since the two schools have nearly identical applicant pools that students enter each school being very similar socially. However, once students get there, a myriad amount of extraneous factors, for whatever reason, produce different types of alumni and for Yale that might be politicians.

By Joe124 (Joe124) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Nannabanana: I appreciate your concern, really, but I am not embarassed-thanks anyways. Yes, you might be social, but do you find this characteristic overwhemlmingly amongst your peers? That is my real question. I think the answer to that is no. I have met many Harvard students and they seem to be all very competitive people who are name mongers. The Yale folks are embarassed to even say that they go to such a prestigious school. Yes, the applicants are primarily drawn from the same pool, but many people who want to be surrounded by interesting, down-to-earth people who get into both H and Y choose Y. I have heard your little cross-admit stats, which are all good and well, but a student that goes to Harvard for undergrad does so primarily for the name and would go there if it meant certain misery because, it's HARVARD, people. Do you understand what I am saying? I hope so. Jarahul, u da man! Keep it up.

By Nannabanana08 (Nannabanana08) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 03:38 pm: Edit

Alright, assuming your concern is valid, Joe, I'll try to shed some light for you. The misconception that Harvard students are competitive and stuck up is just that, a misconception. If I'm being honest, that was somewhat of a concern of mine as well when I was making my decision. However, when I visited during Pre-frosh weekend and actually had the chance to meet and mingle with Harvard students, I realized that most of them were amazing, exciting, and very humble. It stinks that Harvard students are stereotyped in such a negative way. And to answer your other question about the ego factor, I think you will be very surprised to discover that many Harvard students experience the same embarrassment about admitting that they attend harvard. Or rather, modesty would be a more appropriate word. I hate it when people ask where I go to college because I know that I'm not any better than anyone else because I go there, but people do make that assumption. In fact, honestly, it's become such a problem that sometimes I want to lie and tell people I go to our state school to avoid the long and awkward conversation that always follows. Anyway, sorry for this long post, but I just wanted to clear some things up for you. Sure there are anti-social,competitive, and egotistical people at harvard, but there are at every school, sadly. Good luck with the college process! It's actually a very exciting time!

By Lurker2 (Lurker2) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Nannabanana: One curious feature about Harvard students is that many are arrogant and give off the impression that they know more than they really do.

Case in point: your post gives the impression that you profess to be an expert about the nature of Harvard students. Yet you apparently haven't even started college yet. Therefore it's unlikely that you know any more about "Harvard students" than any random person who has visited Harvard Yard for a couple weekends or talked to a few students.

Still, I happen to agree with some of your points. Good luck there in the Fall. You seem like a nice guy, but try to keep the above in mind in the future...

By Justice (Justice) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Grow up Joe

that was an article written with an agenda in mind (namely, more funding for parties and events)

people are telling this post to evaporate because it is virtually identical to the troll posts that come every month...search up the archives if you don't believe me

it is a contradiction to talk about 50-60yr old politicians when discussing the current state of the student body...back then those guys were all prep school kids and aristocracy anyways. just because some of them became politicians doesn't mean anything. and why don't you talk about CEOs? Harvard has a TON more CEOS than Yale, and CEOS arguably need to have as much or more personality than politicians

tell me if you are having trouble understanding why your first post was one of the dumbest ones i've ever seen

By Nannabanana08 (Nannabanana08) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Lurker, I am certainly not arrogant and I do NOT profess to know more than I actually do. And in response to your "case in point", I have met and correspond daily with many Harvard students. It's true I have not spent more than a couple days in person with them, but I have certainly gotten to know many of them on a very personal level throughout this summer. Furthermore, I am already very close friends with six current undergraduates/pre-frosh from my area and they all have amazing personalities. The fact that I am already friends with over 20 Harvard students and have not even arrived in Cambridge has made me feel very optimisic about the type of people I will meet at Harvard. I'm just wondering one thing: how many Harvard students do you personally know to be able to say that "many are arrogant and give off the impression that they know more than they really do"? Anyway, thanks for the warning, I will keep it in mind, although I am very excited and optimistic about the future (and for the record, I'm a girl). Good luck to you too.

Alright, let's end this discussion here. If anyone has more questions concerning the quality of social life/students at Harvard, please consult the archives of CC, as this topic has been debated much in the past. Furthermore, to those prospective students, I would suggest interacting with Harvard students (visiting campus, contacting your local alumni chapter, etc) rather than taking my word or the word of anyone else on this board, as we are all biased either for or against Harvard).

By Lurker2 (Lurker2) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Nana, to answer your question: I have two Harvard degrees, and also have many close relatives who attended (or attend) college and graduate school there.

My personal experience there was fairly positive, although FWIW I do think there are many arrogant and uptight students there. Some start out that way, others become that way *after* arriving at the Big-H...

By Jarahul106 (Jarahul106) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:08 pm: Edit

yo, in case anyone who had the same question as joe is wondering, heres that crimson article i read

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=350153&picnum=5

its sorta biased towards Yale since its an analysis of "how come we feel stressed out?" at harvard, which may be a problem at yale too, but they didnt care to check on that. But it feels like a fairly objective article, like talking about social funding and stuff.

By Willywonka (Willywonka) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:56 pm: Edit

I wish there were some way to show the adcoms that I'm not a part of the "nearly identical pool" syndrome with Yale and I'm not applying to schools based on the name. I guess they find out that an applicant isn't just Ivy-mongering when they look at the FAFSA, but that will be a bit late for me since I'm going EA (unless I have no idea what I'm talking about for the FAFSA timeline).

By Joe124 (Joe124) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

Lurker is as close to an authority as it gets and agrees that many Harvard students are uptight. Game. Set. Match. I'm out, finished, ka-poot, finito.

By The_Brain9 (The_Brain9) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 02:27 am: Edit

Lose the game, set, match line; number one because you use it in so much of your posts that now it is quite hackneyed and trite and number two because you have not won any grand argument or come away a winner. In fact, it seems to me that you are just a typical Yalie trying to instigate and stir things up here.

As a premise, we will say that Lurker2 knows what he is talking about. Even though Lurker2 does say that there are "many" uptight people, you have construed his use of words into believing that "many" means "everybody." Indeed, in your first post you quite clearly lack specifics, instead stereotyping EVERY Yale student and EVERY Harvard student.

Of course going to the most prestigious college in the country is going to turn some students arrogant, as Lurker2 points out, and of course it's going to attract arrogant people because of the same reason. However, what you have done is made a gross generalization of a whole group of people and when you have found one example, you claim victory.

It's like claiming that America is overrun by Canadians and then finding one Canadian and saying "AHA! Game. Set. Match. I win!"

From what I can discern, you are the type of person that will be happy arguing for the losing side as long as you get the last word in - some little indication of a moral or intellectual victory. If that's what you need then by all means post again. Otherwise, go out, be finished, ka-poot away, and be DONE with this.

By Vecter (Vecter) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 06:14 am: Edit

Being an outside objective observer, and I must say with all my heart:

joe, you're a loser. gtfo thanks.

By Joe124 (Joe124) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 08:54 am: Edit

I will dignify your caustic, ad hominem remarks with a response. I honestly could care less if EVERY student is uptight and arrogant-I don't want to be at a school where that type of student is in the majority, but that's just me. If I have to search for the dozen out of 5,000-something kids who are down to earth, then I am sorry-I would rather go to a school where almost everyone is down-to-earth. But again, that's just me. Listen, I am not trying to denigrate your school (and btw, nice use of synonyms, your use of thesaurus tools is AMAZING), I am just trying to inform possible applicants for this next year as to what my impressions and what it seems like others' impressions are too so that they can make an INFORMED decision. That is all. LOSERS!!!!!!!!

By Monoe (Monoe) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 10:46 am: Edit

'Many' does not mean the majority - and as the number of students increase, it means 'the majority' less and less. (With 20 kids, 'many' pretty much has to be more than 10, though even then, it's ambiguous).

You are a loser. Your argument makes no sense.

By Justice (Justice) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 11:53 am: Edit

Listen, I am not trying to denigrate your school

What person who achieved great things did NOT go to Yale?

Harvard students seem to be cut out of one mold-all overachievers with little else personality-wise

I think Yale has to trump Harvard in this respect.

STFU. And quit with this "i need down-to-earth people around me." There is nothing "down-to-earth" about you, an out-of-high-school person going to a Harvard mesage board meant for prospective students and voicing opinions in a clear troll-like fashion, on a Saturday morning no less. You sound like the kind of socially inept loser that people walk away from as soon as they see you coming.


Justice:
There is Justice in CC...

Sheeprun
<moderator>

By Joe124 (Joe124) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Hey prick:
How's it going? I didn't think that I was going to resort to this level, but alas you leave me no choice. Go surround yourself with obnoxious pricks like yourself-have a ball. You will fit right in. Surround yourself with snooty know-it-alls and get cut down to size by your peers. PERFECTO, SIGNORE!!


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