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Discus: Ivy League Schools: Harvard University: 2004 Archive: HARVARD RD -- HONESTLY WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?
By Groovygrrlxoxo (Groovygrrlxoxo) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Please give me honest feedback on my chances.

GPA: 3.8UW/4.17W
SAT I: 690M/650V
SAT II: 720 Writing
680 Chemistry
650 Biology
660 Math IC
660 Math IIC
ACT: Still waiting - I have scored 32+ on diags.

Community Service Club – President (10-12)
•Angel Tree Gift Program – Schoolwide Gift Program from Underpriviledged Families and Children
•Corazon Housebuilding in Mexico
•Adopt-A-Family Program – Gift Sorting and Purchasing
•Rummage Sale Volunteer (12/02)
•Acres of Love AIDS Foundation – Organizing and Volunteering at a Private Fundraiser to Build Orphanages in South Africa for Abandoned and Sick Children with AIDS (Over $100,000 raised)
•Breast Cancer Foundation Fundraising with Raffle Tickets for the Breast Cancer Unit

Mu Alpha Theta Math Society (11-12)
•Tutoring Students in the Upper School (10/03-6/04)

Junior Classical League (11-12)

Tutoring for Corazon Club (11-12)
•Tutoring Lower School Children – Money Contributed by Parents Goes to Sponsor a Child in Mexico through the Corazon Program

School Newspaper
Staff Writer/Cartoonist (10-11)
Production Editor (11)
Editor-in-Chief (12)

Headmaster’s Honors (7-11)
American Scholastic Press Association - 1st Place (10)
American Scholastic Press Association - 1st Place (11)
Who's Who Among High School Students Award (10)
National Society of High School Scholars Member (11-12)
National Honor Roll (11-12)
USAA National Mathematics Award – Nominated (11)
USAA National History Award – Nominated (11)
National Honor Society (10)
Geography Bee Champion (8)
California State National Geographic Bee – 25th Place Statewide (9)

--9th grade – 3 summer school religion courses: A's in all 3; Volunteered at a homeless shelter –80+ hours
--10th grade – 1 University course at UC Irvine (Sociology)-Grade: A, East Coast College Tour
--11th grade – Harvard Summer School

Please be honest....I'm not obsessing over this but I am very worried about my chances compared to many other applicants. Thank you.

By Econrobot (Econrobot) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Many applicants have SAT scores in the high 1400s and 1500s. I would definitely recommend retaking your SATs and your SAT 2s.

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:40 am: Edit

Sorry Groovy, but expect a rejection letter. You only have one standardized test over 700, while most people that get into Harvard have ALL of their stats 750+. Your SATI is really weak for Harvard, since you're about 150 points below their average SAT score. Have you taken any AP classes? If you haven't, that hurts too.

By Yequalsfofx (Yequalsfofx) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:48 am: Edit

You will never go to college...ever. *tear*

and, college is a crapshoot. about 99.9% of the people on this forum are crazy compulsive liars. Anything can happen! apply to the UC system, 1337 public school system.

aim for the stars, you will get to the moon...where there is absolutely nothing. :-P jk

anyway, my advice, apply everywhere, undergrad matters not. my brother had a 1200 SAT in high school. at the moment, he's gotten gov't grants from both Asian and American gov'ts and is pursuing a phD in bioengineering full scholarship at Rice University. Hell be done next year, at the age of 25. And not lying about that. best of luck take it EASY


By Groovygrrlxoxo (Groovygrrlxoxo) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:53 am: Edit

question bullrider - where did you get accepted?

By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:05 am: Edit

Holy crap the people on this board are ass holes. I don't think people realize that an average SAT 1 + 2 score of about 670 when paired with excellent essays is easily equivalent to an average of 750 with mediocre essays. That's the only reason people think that you're dead in the water, because of your low scores. What arrogant pieces of ••••. You have a distinct chance at getting in if you make yourself stand out. Let your app tell a story. Be a person to them. And if you're rejected, you did your best; you left it all on the field, as they say. I guarantee you most of the people who commented looked at your SATs and GPA and skimmed the other stuff before they offered their 'professional' opinion. I think most people here don't have the system nearly beat even though they've been stressing over it for hundreds if not thousands (maybe a tad hyperbolic) of hours each.

By Yequalsfofx (Yequalsfofx) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 12:50 pm: Edit

uhhh, for for christ's sake, chill out. it was meant as a joke, at least on my part. do you realize that half of this entire forum is taken over by threads that start with: "I HAVE A 1600, WILL I GO ANYWHERE IN LIFE??" It's gotten to a point where replying seriously to anyone with that info up is just joining a fake pity-party or feeding the exact reactions that the author's looking for: anything that will boost their goddamn ego.

seriously, groovy, you have a chance anywhere if you read further beyond my initial statement. :-P

but honestly, the UCs are haaawwt. The UCs inclusive to Berkeley, SD, LA, and SB are worth just as much as an ivy league--they just cost less and have less retarded prestige. in all, from what I've seen with my friends, it seems that UC campuses are actually putting out more difficult classes. Berkeley is ranked above many ivys, actually depending where you look. anyhoo, im out.

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Groovy, I just graduated Junior year. And to the above posters, who are incredibly naive, I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong. Unless you're the president's daughter, then you HAVE to have good stats (with respect to that college), which you don't Groovy. Your stats are still good enough for lower-tier Ivies (like Cornell) and the whole UC system (even Berkely) but not for HYPS. Qwert, you're very, very wrong. The way the AI system works, if you don't have at least an AI of 6 you don't stand a good chance. Groovy, depending on your rank and class size, your AI is around 2 or 3. Groovy wanted us to be honest, and that's exactly what I am. Sorry if the truth hurts.

By Spacecadet (Spacecadet) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Three things--Admissions is a crapshoot, Groovygrl has a chance, Bullrider is ignorant.

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 02:23 am: Edit

Spacecadet, to call me "ignorant" simply reflects poorly on yourself, and displays your naivety (especially because it's just an empty statement that you stated without any proof). It's nice to be an idealist and tell everyone that they have a chance, but all that is is fluff. I for one am practical and truthful. I've spoken with several college counclers, and the consensus is that generally good ECs cannot make up for poor stats (I'm not saying Groovy's stats are bad generally, just in the pool of HYPS applicants). I'm sorry, but you can't be 150 points below Harvards average SATI score, only have one SATII score out of 5 above 700 (let alone none above 750), and not of have taken any AP classes and still expect to get into HARVARD. You guys think that essays can completely make up for that?! NO THEY CAN'T! You can't just ignore stats like that, as if they don't exhist. To do so is just naive, immature, and shows fear to face reality. Believe it or not, but ACADEMICS PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLL IN ADMISSIONS!

By Davidrune (Davidrune) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 02:30 am: Edit

Bullrider7788, don't you have a 1360 SAT score? and aren't you also applying to selective ivy league schools?

By Jab93 (Jab93) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 11:16 am: Edit


Wow... your EC's are very impressive...
You seem like a very decent human being, someone with whom it would be an honor to call classmate... by all means apply to Harvard.
People DO sometimes get in with lower scores... just be realistic... don't get your heart set on just one school... do some more research and find a good set of matches and safeties...
Whatever you do, please don't change and become a prestige-obsessed, score-obsessed lunatic like most of the a**h*les on this website... unlike most of these losers with incredibly high scores and no life, you actually seem interesting, someone that I would actually want to have as a classmate because they have passion about something other than ambitious self-pursuits...

Harvard will be a reach, as it is for almost everyone...

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 01:04 pm: Edit

Davidrune, yes and yes. However, I've only taken the SAT once and did not study as thoroughly as I should have. I know that my SAT score isn't that good, which is why I'm going to use the summer to study for it (Conversly, my SATII's are good enough).

BTW, I never once challenged Groovy's character, if that's what Jab is alluding to. You (Groovy) do sound like a very nice person. While Jab is right in not becoming "stat-obsessed", you also should not ignore stats, because academics are VERY important. If I was you Groovy, use the summer to study for your SATs/SATIIs.

Look guys, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk. Groovy stated she wanted HONEST opinions, and I HONESTLY think that her stats are too low for a school like Harvard, but good enough for other prestigious schools like Cornell and Berkely.

By Ubercollegeman (Ubercollegeman) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Average EC's + Below-average scores + Nothing really special = Rejection from Harvard.

On a 1-9 scale, you're an academic 4. Harvard rejects most academic 9's.

I'm usually not that mean, and people on here will tell you to apply for the sake of applying because everyone has a chance, but you really don't. Save the application money and give it to a child in need.

By Lahlahlah (Lahlahlah) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 01:10 am: Edit

thats bc academic 9's basically ahve no lives most of the time

By Groovygrrlxoxo (Groovygrrlxoxo) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 04:30 pm: Edit

i figure that if harvard does reject me, then i am going to be in the same boat as about 10,000+ other people and most of them will have stats far better than mine - i just wanted a quick take from regular people - if the adcom people decide to take me, great - if not then there is always grad school

By Saxfreq1128 (Saxfreq1128) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

Time out.

Let us clarify a few things.

Harvard's average SAT score is ridiculously high. Yes, we all know that. But they key here is that it is an AVERAGE--meaning, there are scores above it as well as many that are below. Don't fret over SAT scores. I talked to a harvard adcommer who didn't give a rat's tail about SAT scores (unless the candidate took them too many times--THAT, he said, is the worst offense). He said that Harvard isn't as anal about them as many have been led to believe.
None of the OP's scores are sub-650. That's good enough. Grades are more important.

Essays make/break you. Since we haven't read the OP's, none of us is really an authority on this matter (as if we could have been, in the first place). Harvard looks for people who will become famous some day. Future MacArthur Fellows, Nobel Laureates, politicians, the likes. Star quality is not apparent in SAT scores, or even grades, really. Essays matter.

By the way, before I forget, its naivete, not naivety.

As for the OP, don't stress over scores. They will be glanced at and then put aside. Make your personality stand out. Make up for your shortcomings--whatever you feel they may be--in other parts of your application. Keep in mind the phrase "overall package." Don't make your app a boring read. It's a crapshoot for everyone, but you don't need to have cured cancer or saved the universe to get into Harvard. Passion is not measured in numbers. Do what you love, stick with it, make the most of it.

If you get rejected, screw 'em.

By Ubercollegeman (Ubercollegeman) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 02:53 am: Edit

The flaw in that SAT analysis, though, is that about 40% of a given Ivy League body has a hook that helped them get in: legacy, athletic recruit, URM, etc. The average SAT score at Harvard among non-extrahooks must be even higher.

By Albertfermat (Albertfermat) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 09:07 am: Edit

saxfreq1128, what did the adcommer consider "too many times to take the SAT?" Because I got a 1540 in tenth grade (after 3 times testing), but since I am in the class of 2006 I have to take the New SAT. If I take the new SAT once or twice, will that be too much (5 times, not because I want to, but because I have to)?

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:14 am: Edit

groovy: i can tell you without hesitation that the biggest flaw in your resume is your low test scores (sat i and ii). i think that bullrider's words should mean something to you. even if they are a bit too critical, but that can only help you grow and understand the admissions process from his point of view. the bottom line is, you HAVE to have moderately-excellent test scores to get into the top programs in this nation. although your ec's are pretty solid, your sats will have to take a leap. my only advice is to prep for the exams.....

By Mike20 (Mike20) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:27 am: Edit

"Have you taken any AP classes? If you haven't, that hurts too."
I've never taken APs, but this is because I'm an international. I'm doing three A-levels (these are basically higher in qualification than the APs). Would this also affect me?

By Justice (Justice) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:27 am: Edit

Heh if AI-9s have no lives, then upon your acceptance to Harvard, plan to go to school with people with no lives--I think most are very close to AI-9. You are aware that 25% of Harvard students have at least 800 in either math or verbal? That most of their class is NMSF? Testing doesn't get people in, but most sucessful applicants have tremendous scores because that's just how smart they are. And unfortunately it's not even as if you're a valedictorian (which a sizable chunk of Harvard is) who is president of everything at her school--another good way to get into Harvard. The ECs are nice but very average--there is no leadership (except editor), no athletics, no sustained involvement in any particular thing, and the community service seems largely one-event and not unified. Some of you mention that she has "passions;" could you name some of them for me?

You know what the irony is. That if it were someone with like a 1560 with 770s who made this thread, people would say, "meh, you've got a shot, but it's a shot in the dark, a crapshoot. There are tons of people who are better with better ECs." Check to see the what are my chances forum archives to see what I mean. But when the scores get low enough, a pity factor comes out.

There are lots of good but average students who want to go to Harvard. You are one of them. All of them will try to make their personality seem as quirky and desirable as possible, so even in the low-scorer pool you have a ton of competition. And keep in mind that in the end Harvard is an ACADEMIC institution, so some sort of academic distinguishment has got to be there.

I know for Stanford there is a process where students rise out of the initial pool through scores and particular acheivements and then rise up successively in the ladder until acceptance. So you're going to need to have your application read by 4 or 5 people and have them all like you enough to push you up. In the end they browse the people who didn't rise out of the first pool and see if there's any one-in-a-million spark that they missed. If Harvard has a similar process, then you don't need me to tell you that you are going to have a very tough time. My advice is to not get too attached to Harvard, apply to other schools that you also love but are not so selective, and just see what happens.

By Saxfreq1128 (Saxfreq1128) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Albert: "too many times" is simply "more times than you need to." He told us that if you took it once and got decent scores MOVE ON. Understand that these schools don't want to see people wasting their saturdays taking tests when they don't need to--they'd rather see you doing something else. Take them twice, if necessary. Three times, he said, was eh . . . not horrible, but you're pushing it. The worst offense, though, is scoring 1400+ and STILL taking it again, he said. It won't automatically get you rejected, but it WILL make the adcommers question your priorities a bit.

And, it is NOT mandatory to have 1400+ to get into the top schools. Like I said, grades are the most important factor. I know someone who got into Yale, JHU, and Brown with 1280/560/610/630, but he was valedictorian. You can have a 1360 or a 1220 to get into Harvard.

Also, I think it's important to note that the adcom takes context into consideration. If you go to Phillips Exeter and score a 1200, you might have a problem. Do remember, the schools recieve information about your HS--ie, average SAT scores, SAT II scores, average GPAs, etc. etc. etc. These are the things that everyone seems to forget.

Just remember that the SATs aren't the be-all end-all when it comes to college admissions.

By Ubercollegeman (Ubercollegeman) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:27 am: Edit

If you don't want a brutally honest opinion, don't read the rest of this post. Anyway, I'm not a college admissions expert, so you can either take my advice or throw it away; it's all the same to me.

Just ask yourself the question: am I even an average Harvard applicant? You would be kidding yourself to say anything but "No." In GPA, SATI, SATII, EC's, and extra hooks, you fall far behind the average Harvard applicant enough to probably place you in the bottom quartile of applications.

Now consider that Harvard accepts about 11% of its applicants. That means it rejects the bottom 89%.

Statistically speaking, you have no chance at Harvard. You are not riding on that 11% border dangerously. The process is not a crapshoot for you; it's not even a lottery ticket. Unless you VASTLY improve your scores next year, I don't see the point in applying other than donating some money to the place.

By Attitudica (Attitudica) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 08:08 am: Edit

For Godsake, SCORES arnt everything. They are simply NOT! Dont retake the SATs, do something really astonishing, with passion, get into Harvard, and kill all these posters with your acceptance letter!

By Julians (Julians) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 09:38 am: Edit

Scores aren't *everything* but they are *something*, and since this fellow has no major hooks, I just can't see Harvard accepting him. I would say his ecs/gpa are probably at about the 30th-40th percentile for Harvard applicants, and his test scores are below that. There isn't much that is compelling about him. HTH

By Attitudica (Attitudica) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:11 pm: Edit

If he doesnt have any hook, harvard wouldnt keep him just because he has a Higher score. Talk realistically!

By Yequalsfofx (Yequalsfofx) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 04:23 am: Edit

Bullrider, naive and ignorant characterize you HarDXCORE

berkely is missing that extra E yo!

I see the stats. mos def. I see the numbers of course. However, I fail to put all my faith in numbers due to the fact that qualifying an individual for any quartile or range within the pool of applicants does not revolve about the one factor of an SAT score or any standardized exam. Albeit the score is important, extracurriculars and the essays have shown themselves to be more highly weighted. Scores can tell a story about some insane nut dedicated to books and lacking of any other outside extracurricular experience. This is the same reason why an individual with a low gpa but stellar recs will be accepted over another individual with a top gpa to a graduate school. I have seen this--not with a URM, but with an asian student who managed to guarantee himself scholarships while students who were an entire gpa point above him were turned away. Scores are shallow. Activites show substance. At the same time, anything on paper fails miserably at detailing the candidate and presenting him/her. A kid with a 1600 can appear to have all the necessary ECs such as an instrument, volunteer hours, and whatever, but this tells nothing about that individual's substance. Schools are well aware of the fact that truly, any individual, regardless of substance or self, has, with study, with TIME, with paid tutors, with drive, and with motivation, the potential to break 1500. If a child can increase his score from a 7th grade 1250 to an 11th grade 1600, that says something: you aren't born with a 1600; rather, it develops OVER TIME. Excuse my rambling, but you never know till you try.

AP Statistics is an excellent course, in retrospect. It teaches you about life. . .and the beauty of numerical deception!

I'm in the race just as much as any of you are, but I believe the initial characterization of some of the kids replying to this post as pompous as sholes, holds water. Columbia offered a scholarship to an ASIAN student with 1s on AP exams and mediocre SAT scores--because of his ECs (Science Bowl). You never know. UCLA turned down a friend of mine with 7 AP classes, 5 5's and 2 4's, while accepting another friend of mine with only one AP course but numerous, not even phenomenal, ECs.

You can NEVER calculate what these officers are looking for.

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 01:00 pm: Edit

Yequals, to characterize me as "naive and ignorant" is an adhominim. Even furthermore, to think because I misspelled Berkley (while typing fast) justifies that is just carping (BTW, you shouldn't be alluding to anyone being stupid when you use words like "HarDXCORE". I commend you on your high level of discourse).

You're making it seem as if SAT scores just don't matter, and I can't believe how wrong you are. So far, EVERY college councler I've spoken to has stated the exact opposite. According to them, low test scores indicates to upper-tier Ivy's that you won't be able to handle many of the courses because they are test-based. It has been a CONSENSUS from them that good EC's can't make up for low GPA/SATs. Even so, while Groovy has alright EC's, they are NOTHING SPECIAL, and don't stand out.

I don't understand this. Groovy asked for an HONEST opinion, and I gave my HONEST opinion. What do I get in return? Everyone thinking I'm a jerk. It's nice that everyone wants to be a good citizen and tell everyone that they have a chance, no matter how low their SATs and how average their ECs, but some people don't really stand a chance. I stand by what I say, whether you guys like it or not.

By Yequalsfofx (Yequalsfofx) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 02:20 pm: Edit


By Yequalsfofx (Yequalsfofx) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Your statement is irony at its best. Since when was the English language limited to non-slang terminology? In the past year, the OED has added such words as bling-bling and fosho. English is an evolving language. There was no implication of stupidity in my statement: it was merely your insecurity. I come off as the individual I am. "High level of discourse"? You ridicule me, openly, for my lack of "high-level discourse". Jesus christ, someone needs to chill out. . . and study for their SATs.

Everyone does not believe you to be a jerk due to your "honest opinion." The characterization comes from your stubbornness, conviction, and hardheadedness. If I remember correctly, you destroyed other people's "honest opinions" by attempting to dominate them with your own AND subsequently, you utilized the characterization "naive and ignorant". How can you expect consideration from others, when you yourself provide none!? See my response as an "honest retaliation".

hardxcore hardxcore hardxcore.
Counselors also go by numbers. Counselors don't apply to colleges and do not see all the applicants. From my personal experience, in attending an competitive school in LAUSD and repeatedly seeing people make it to colleges when they failed to fit the numbers tells me that you never know till you try. In my academic teams alone, I have had close friends make it to Yale, Stanford, UPenn, UCLA, and Berkeley, and none of them matched the profiles. Some exceeded the numbers and were still turned away. Though a few of the situations were explainable, others made no sense. Groovy, there is opportunity for change, and the numbers are against you; but do not let that prevent you from doing more and most of all, from applying to these schools.

By Justice (Justice) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 05:36 pm: Edit

Heh no offense intended Yequalsfofx but it appears as if you're being one of those people on CC who just want to pick a fight somewhere.

You are wrong about SAT scores--it is true that SAT develops over time, but same with IQ. As someone who teaches SAT classes each summer to low-income students, I can assure you that it is quite difficult to raise an SAT score from 600 to 900. To tell me that any human being can raise their score above 1500 is frankly an insult to me and the thousands of mentors and student teachers who invest hundreds of hours into that very goal.

Additionally, you seem rather misinformed. Columbia doesn't give merit scholarships. It is absurd to say that Science Bowl is an EC of veritable substance as opposed to tests on those subjects; Science Bowl consists of an unbelievably easy and generally unpractical hodgepodge of information. I have an infinitely greater amount of respect for the person who studies things he/she loves rather than what a certain institutionalized body (such as Science Bowl) deems is good to know.

As I said before, you seem to be picking an argument out of nowhere. No one is suggesting that testing is everything, that the process is completely predictable, or anything of the sort. You seem to be one of those Asians (which I assume you are) who have experienced the "backlash syndrome" and feel compelled to tell everyone that testing doesn't matter.

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 05:48 pm: Edit

First and for most, your first paragraph is an overreaction to something that I said as a backlash to your insult. While English is an evolving language, I attempted to look up in Websters "hardxcore", but to my surprise, found nothing. No implication of stupidity in your statement?! Unless "hardxcore" is a complement or is suppose to negate previous adjectives, I find "ignorant" and "naive" as belittling, especially since stupidity and ignorance go hand in hand. BTW, don't say "someone needs to chill out" and then go on your 288 word rant.

I guess you have a poor memory Yequal, because I simply responded in self-defense when someone called ME ignorant. I think for the most part I've shown consideration. Not once have I belittled someone for having what I think is poor-stats for HYPS, but simply express my opinion that I feel they need to raise their scores. While it's nice to provide someone with your two cents, you are not authoratative like a group of college counclers. They are pundits when it comes to the admissions process. Sorry if this surprises you, but I'm going to stick with what the several college counclers have told me (that being that your stats have to be good to get into HYPS) and not with what you think.

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit

BTW, just incase the first paragraphy is ambiguos, the above post is directed at Yequal, not you Justice.

By Yequalsfofx (Yequalsfofx) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:14 pm: Edit

Happy fourth of July! :-) Yea, fights are the life of this college discussion board. Thanks for counting the number of words I had down. I forgot to do a word count on your post.
The difference with this particular Science Bowl team is that they have a reputation as national champions (N. hollywood h.s.). The members are passionate about science? Is that hard to believe?
hardxcore. Websters? The OED is more hip.

Justice and the Bullrider! You guys can write a comic book. w00t.
Good luck with college admissions.

By Bullrider7788 (Bullrider7788) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 11:29 pm: Edit

Yequals, just so you know, I just c/p your post into the word processor and hit word count . BTW Yequals, I attend N. Hollywood High School. Steven is a smart kid, he didn't get in just because of science bowl.

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