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Hey guys, I have my heart set on Princeton but I am mediocre compared to the rest of these guys. Are all kids at Princeton that smart? I mean, there HAS to be mediocre students at these top ivy leagure schools, right? Just to "balance the playing field?" well anyways, I was wondering what recommendation you have for my application process into Princeton. Any constructive criticism is welcome! http://www.prstats.com/display.php?user=Hobbes344

By Outlaw (Outlaw) on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 03:39 am: Edit

haha, your stats are way higher than mine, and i got into princeton. (im not a recruit, athlete, or legacy, either. just a normal person very in love with princeton). seriously, though, those stats are totally fine. you just have to rock the essays now. and im very serious about the rocking the essays part. i spent weeks on the application and it made up for my 660 math :-)

being from alaska doesnt hurt, btw. (p.s. i love alaska; was born there, and post-princeton hope to return at some point)

By Monekit (Monekit) on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 07:41 pm: Edit

Being from Alaska - helps you
Being Asian - hurts you
Playing violin (when you're Asian) - hurts you
SAT score - needs to be raised (can you retake?)
Wanting to major in Psychology - helps you

I again would emphasize making very good essays.

By Hobbes344 (Hobbes344) on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 09:05 pm: Edit

haha outlaw thats for the encouragement, and monekit, I'll sincerely try my best to change my race. I will have one more chance to retake, any tips are welcome.

By Akx (Akx) on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 10:33 pm: Edit

being asian and not having a 1500+ is a bad thing. in general, princeton doesnt really like overachieving minorities... asians make up about 13%, which is one of the lowest percentages among the ivies. if you're asian, you better be boosting their average sat score.

really, try to get 1500+, preferably a 1550+... and even then, unless you have some sorta hook, something activity that you're really passionate about, chances are slim.

the best way to determine your chances is to compare yourself to past applicants from your school who have gotten into princeton. if no one has, then you'll really have to go above and beyond.

good luck.

By Outlaw (Outlaw) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 12:42 am: Edit

um, don't be discouraged by these guys. i know a lot of people with the "1550 +" that you supposedly "need to get" who were rejected and I got in with a 1420.

Retaking them can't hurt, though, since Princeton looks at your highest for each individual section. (haha, I failed to get that memo and took them only once).

But the main thing I would emphasize to you is to bring out one or two central qualities of yourself on the application--deliver them very strongly. For example, I hammered home that I plan on being a political mover and shaker. Give the people reading the apps a central voice to sink their teeth into. And go all out. I used very forceful diction--since you and I don't have the 1600 we need something beyond that to stand out--so be very powerful, confident, and genuine.

good luck

By Akx (Akx) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 05:06 pm: Edit

to get in with a 1420, you gotta be something pretty special, whether its in your personal qualities, obstacles overcome, achievements, talent, etc. at least in my opinion, its way easier to get perfect grades, sat scores along with some decent activities than to be that truly special person. going from a 1450 to a 1550 just takes some good preparation; becoming a certain type of person or developing a talent requires several years.

basically, just do whatever you can as best as you can. if you just try hard in everything you do, then you shouldnt have any regrets. if you get into princeton, then great, if not, i'm sure you'll find another place where you can be as happy or happier. anyway, the way i see it, a lot of people are better off going to a college where theyll be above average academically. especially if you're considering professional schools, then going to a lesser school can give you a competitive edge since med schools and law schools care a lot about hard numbers. this could really hurt princeton students with the whole anti-grade inflation thing.

just try your best with this whole thing. believe it or not theres no secret formula, top schools can be pretty random with admission decisions and there are thousands of applicants just like you. maybe you'll get lucky, maybe you won't, but know that many of the people admitted at princeton could have just as easily been waitlisted or rejected. just try to be optimistic and realize that who you are is more important than where you go.

By Variance173 (Variance173) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 05:18 pm: Edit

outlaw...what were your stats, ECs, etc? did you get in ED or RD?
thanks...

By Irock1ce (Irock1ce) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

wow. people need to get off the SATs. They are NOT THAT IMPORTANT. This applicants scores are fine. All he needs to do is write a good essay and hope for the best.
Monekit- How does playing the violin hurt you? Playing ANY KIND OF MUSIC will help you if you are devoted. Doesnt matter if you are asian,white, african american or whatever. If your playing music and devoted to it, more power to you. Also, since Princeton has a low Asian population, they may be looking for more Asians to apply there. GL to you with Princeton. = )

By Pimpdaddy (Pimpdaddy) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 09:51 pm: Edit

"since Princeton has a low Asian population"
thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard

anyways, im sorry but ure prolly not getting in, dont get ure hopes up

By Outlaw (Outlaw) on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit

i got in RD

SAT: V760, M660
SATIIs: 640Math IC, 760Writing, 720Lit

class rank 1/361; 4.0 unweighted

tuba in Band (4 yrs)
politics (Dean campaign; legislative page; lotsa 1-week programs, etc)
intern at local law firm
co-editor of literary magazine
Tijuana missions trips (4 yrs), NHS, etc.

By Arc (Arc) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 12:08 am: Edit

outlaw...are you a legacy,URM or athlete?

and what exactly are tijuana trips, legislative page and 1 week programs?
thanks for your time.

By Monekit (Monekit) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 12:10 am: Edit

"Monekit- How does playing the violin hurt you? Playing ANY KIND OF MUSIC will help you if you are devoted. Doesnt matter if you are asian,white, african american or whatever."

If you're playing a violin as an Asian it shows you're going with the whole typical Asian sterotype, and that you're not much different from the usual Asian. Unless you're one of the most superior players around. You really want to stand out, not look the same. If you played a french horn or something, it would be different.

By Jacklowey (Jacklowey) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 05:21 am: Edit

Irock1ce - I agree. I got waitlisted and I'm: Asian-American, a drummer, 3.4 gpa, and 1320 SATs.

By Outlaw (Outlaw) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 09:24 pm: Edit

no prob

what does "URM" mean?...I'm not a legacy or an athlete.

tijuana trips were one-week housebuilding missions for impovershed families (I did one a year thru high school); legislative paging is spending a week in your state's capitol paging for a congressman

1 week programs:
Girls State
Presidential Classroom (Civic Education program in DC)

By Outlaw (Outlaw) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 09:26 pm: Edit

FYI, though, I got in cause of my essays. I don't know why people don't talk more about those, because I really think that not only makes or breaks you but can mean most of your application's merit

By Arc (Arc) on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 10:07 pm: Edit

a URM is an under-represented minority...i.e. black, hispanic, or native american. are you one?

and what is "paging for a congressman"? how often did you do that? once per year?

what do you think made you stand out in the pool of applicants?

i don't mean any offense, but i know many people with much higher scores and more qualifications than you who were rejected/waitlisted. that's why i'm trying to understand what made you stand out.

congratulations and thanks again for your time.

By Akx (Akx) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 12:01 am: Edit

its very easy for people to generalize from anecdotes here. just because one person with average stats gets in doesnt mean that everyone with average stats can get in. believe it or not, academic achievement is the most important factor in determining whether you should be admitted at princeton. where you go to school makes a big difference. If you go to a school where the top 10 go to hypms every year, then being one of the top 10 most qualified kids in your school will give you a pretty decent shot at getting into princeton. if you go to a good school like that, then there'll probably also be the expectation that your scores will be higher than someone from a lesser school. colleges take all of this into account. if you go to a lesser school, you probably wont have the same resources and stuff so princeton will give less weight to your scores. basically, theyre gonna look at you and your school and how you fit the picture. how you do academically is very important, and your sat scores considered relative to the type of school you go to are certainly important.

also, the essay can be very important, but its very rare for an essay to get a person accepted or rejected. it really would be silly for admissions officers to put a lot of weight on the essays since the application process is subjective enough as it is. theyre gonna influence the way the admissions officer views your application but theyre not gonna save you if your stats are average. the most important thing is that everything in your application sort of fits together, your stats, activities, essays, recs, interview so that they have a sorta person in front of them. the worst thing would be for them to find holes or discrepancies somewhere.

By Outlaw (Outlaw) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 03:17 am: Edit

no, I'm not a URM.

I paged for my congresswoman just one week of my life, it was a program at the Capitol--you apply for it, get housed in the area, and spend five days helping out.

don't worry, I'm not offended at all--since I'm not an athlete, legacy, or URM, and don't have stand-out stats, I can entriely see where you're coming from. I would say what helped me most was being extremely bold and forthright to the point of unconventionality on not just my essays but the application as a whole. I knew it wouldn't pay off the play it safe since I'm no 1600, so I just went all out and risked it. For example, where it asks you to list your activities and involvements, I put as the first one "Reality." and in positions held under that I put "God exists; I have purpose and direction." My essays chronicled an intense political and personal search, and I definitely dropped the fact I used to live in a trailer and my dad just finished community college. I also obsessively highlighted the fact I am a Bob Dylan maniac, to give a unique edge to my application persona--and to be fully honest in who I am.

Princeton is looking for substantial people, not just with intelligence but with desire to move and shake with that intelligence. My main advice to any future applicants would be blazing integrity to your person. I made myself a very real and raw human to the admissions officers. This is by no means meant to contradict the true statement that Princeton's number one qualifier is academic achievement--it is. Being 1st in my class probably factored in.

Finally, take advantage of the fact Princeton doesn't seem to get annoyed by supplementary application materials. I fully used the "additional information" page, and I also sent along with my app a poetry portfolio. I even put a pic of myself with a witty bio--"The author currently resides on an island next to seattle, but hopes to move to New Jersey. Though currently single, she is seeking a Bachelor of the Arts." that sorta thing.

I hope some of this helps. I want to reinforce that by no means am I dimsissing the importance of academics. But once you reach a certain point of comptency (say, top 5% of class, over 1400, but im just throwing it out there) they know you have the capabilities, and all they care about is what you are going to build using those intellectual tools.

By Arc (Arc) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 12:53 pm: Edit

thanks for your reply outlaw and thanks for your post akx.

just wondering...outlaw, where else did you apply and where were you rejected/accepted/waitlisted?
thanks.

By Outlaw (Outlaw) on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 11:46 pm: Edit

other colleges:

Stanford--waitlisted
Yale--rejected
Duke--accepted
georgetown--accepted
northwestern--accepted
univ. of washington honors prog--accepted

By Irock1ce (Irock1ce) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 01:07 am: Edit

Monekit- How can they take off points for being stereotypical? oh ok. its also stereotypical asian for having 1600,800,800,800 gee lets go for the 800,400,400,400 if your asian. No. thats not how it works. Not ALL ASIANS play the violin or piano. Thats just a big stereotype that people have. Sure i guess some asians play it but i guarantee you it doesnt go over 30% of the asian kids who apply to hyp. Playing any kind of instrument and dedicating to it will help you. Regardless of race.

By Monekit (Monekit) on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Irock1ce, stop trying to wane my post all-out and make my comment look stupid. Don't you think that an Asian, like Jacklowey, who plays drums, stands out more than an Asian who plays a violin or piano? Assume they are both dedicated. More or less, playing that violin or piano may not hurt you much, but it doesn't help you at all for the most part.

By G_Li (G_Li) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 01:07 pm: Edit

Outlaw makes a great point. Everything isn't about academics...it's about STANDING OUT. Most people who apply to Princeton have outstanding academics and are in the top 10% of their class. The key is still WHAT DO YOU BRING TO THE CLASS THAT OTHERS DON'T? Always emphasize exactly what makes you DIFFERENT and be FORCEFUL.

I wouldn't mind stereotypes too much. I got in to Princeton with 1520/800W/800M/770P and 4/79 in a small public school. I'm also Asian (100% Chinese) and have the average amount of extracurriculars. I like to think that what got me in was that I've made All-State Orchestra the past two years on cello and I also attended the Pennsylvania Governor's School for the Arts. I'm sure many would say that I'm very stereotypically asian.

I think that being from Alaska will definitely help, since there are generally less people who apply from there. Otherwise, I would work on your violin playing. Send in a tape if you have pieces that you know well (just remember though, make sure it isn't sloppy - a sloppy tape can hurt you more than it helps you). Call Michael Pratt (the orchestra director) or e-mail him and tell him you might be interested in the Orchestra. Do everything you can. Make sure they know about you and know what you can do. Don't be arrogant, but promote yourself. Being assertive is the only way to get in.