|By Kimfuge (Kimfuge) on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 09:50 pm: Edit|
|By Stanfordman99 (Stanfordman99) on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 11:52 pm: Edit|
George Bush: C Average into Harvard Business.
|By Browninfall (Browninfall) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 12:43 am: Edit|
Have you seen his transcript?
|By Stanfordman99 (Stanfordman99) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 01:06 am: Edit|
Actually, Bush made a speech at LSU's commencement ceremony and he said something along the lines of : "I was a C student, and now you know what a C student can do."
|By Bigblue04 (Bigblue04) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 01:11 am: Edit|
I don't think he means athletes/legacies/development cases
|By Qwert271 (Qwert271) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 08:43 am: Edit|
i dont think bush went to hbs.
|By Talrasha (Talrasha) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 10:01 am: Edit|
Bush went to Yale (arts/history) for undergrad and later on, HBS.
|By Northrams (Northrams) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 12:18 pm: Edit|
im thinking hes looking for someone OTHER than george bush that got into harvard, and i assume he means a low high school gpa for harvard undergrad.
|By Mehere (Mehere) on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 10:34 pm: Edit|
yeah. or who got into harvard with freshman grades?
|By Girlforever101 (Girlforever101) on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 11:03 pm: Edit|
My freshman grades were mediocre so I was wondering that too.
|By Killaerone (Killaerone) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 12:57 am: Edit|
"I was a C student, and now you know what a C student can do." -George Bush
|By Jab93 (Jab93) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 11:39 am: Edit|
The sad thing is... Bush was a C student at Yale,
but the V.P. Dick Cheney actually flunked out of Yale and had to finish school at U. Wyoming.
|By Northrams (Northrams) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit|
it depends on your definition of a "low" HS gpa. i know many people on these boards consider a 3.7 "low." if thats the case, then yeah a bunch of people get in with that type of gpa. If you mean a low B or a C average, then you would need some AMAZING other credentials (ie published novels, composed a symphony, etc), be a hell of a football player, or sleep with someone in admissions (jk)
|By Sakky (Sakky) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit|
To be perfectly fair, Al Gore got into Harvard after graduating with a class ranking of #25 out of 51, or barely within the top 50% of his class. That's right, not the top 5%, but the top 50%. Al Gore almost flunked out of Harvard after getting a string of C's and even a D.
|By Sraid7777 (Sraid7777) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 05:46 pm: Edit|
sakky, you're an ass.
FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum"
|By Sakky (Sakky) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 06:07 pm: Edit|
So what if it is? Are you saying that Al Gore didn't graduate #25 out of 51 in his high school class? Are you saying that Al Gore didn't get mediocre grades while at Harvard? Are you saying that these are lies? It's in black and white. These are indisputable facts. The fact is, while George Bush may not be an academic superstar, neither was Al Gore.
You can disagree with the opinions of freerepublic, but you can't disagree with the facts. That Al Gore didn't do all that well academically while in high school or at Harvard is an indisputable fact. You're entitled to have your own opinions, but you're not entitled to have your own facts.
|By Jab93 (Jab93) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 07:07 pm: Edit|
Gore was certainly an academic lightweight... but he still wasn't as bad as Bush. Gore was ranked in the middle of a very competitive, elite private school... An although Gore got a handful of C's and one D, he also got quite a few A's and B's, and wrote what was regarded as a very solid senior thesis. Gore was never in danger of flunking out, like Bush almost did, and like Cheney in fact did.
Regarding Gore's grad work at Vanderbilt, both in Divinity and Law, he did not flunk out... he dropped out, in one case to run for political office... If you drop out, and don't file the correct paperwork, you get F's... but technically, he left the school before...
(Personally, i had a friend in similar situation... because of family problems, he dropped-out... never filled-out the correct forms, got 4 F's, and now is having a horrific time trying to get back into school)
Funny thing is... I recall McCain bragging about being in the bottom 3 at Annapolis...
Although I have great respect for McCain (though I don't agree with his politics), what's with mediocre academic lightweights thinking they can run the country?
(Continuing my rambling rant... makes me wish Bill Bradley was running... now that was a smart guy!)
|By Sakky (Sakky) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 08:31 pm: Edit|
Jab93, I largely agree with you, but let me clear the record here:
First off, the contention that Al Gore was never in danger of flunking out doesn't hold water. In fact, Al Gore was in his first 2 years of college more in danger of flunking out of Harvard than George Bush ever was of flunking out of Yale. Consider this quote from the Washington Post:
"...In his sophomore year at Harvard, Gore's grades were lower than any semester recorded on Bush's transcript from Yale. That was the year Gore's classmates remember him spending a notable amount of time in the Dunster House basement lounge shooting pool, watching television, eating hamburgers and occasionally smoking marijuana. His grades temporarily reflected his mildly experimental mood, and alarmed his parents. He received one D, one C-minus, two C's, two C-pluses and one B-minus, an effort that placed him in the lower fifth of the class for the second year in a row. "
And also about your contention that Gore was at a highly regarded, tough private school, well that is true. But consider what the former headmaster at that school had to say:
"When John C. Davis, a retired teacher and assistant headmaster at St. Albans, was recently shown his illustrious former pupil's college board achievement test scores, he inspected them closely with a magnifier and shook his head, chuckling quietly at the science results.
"Four eighty-eight! Terrible" Davis declared upon inspecting the future vice president's 488 score (out of a possible 800) in physics.
"Hmmmm. Chemistry. Five-nineteen. He didn't do too well in chemistry."
As Davis moved down the page, his magnifier settled on Gore's more promising achievement scores in other scholastic realms.
"English. Seven oh-five. Right at the top!"
"U.S. History. Seven oh-one. Not so bad."
Then he came to Gore's results in IQ tests taken in 1961 and 1964, at the beginning of his freshman and senior years. "One thirty-three and 134. Absolutely superb. That means tremendous ability."
These high IQ and achievement scores did not necessarily translate into equivalent high grades for Gore in high school English and history. From ninth grade (called Form III in the Anglophilic St. Albans culture) to his senior year (Form VI), he earned an equal number of C's and B's in English, but no A's. In history during those four years, he also moved between C's and B's until his senior year, when he broke through with an A-plus in Sacred Studies, a religious history course. He pulled steady C's for all three years of high school French. The one course in which he received straight A's was art, which he took all four years of high school.
"You have here a boy who shows a lot of potential," Davis said after inspecting Gore's tests and grades. "He was as a rule a hard worker, but he wasn't really interested in certain things, and when he wasn't so interested he tried faithfully to do what he was supposed to, though not necessarily very well." "
But look, this conversation was not supposed to be about politics. The simple fact of the matter is that both Bush and Gore grew up at a time when academic performance simply wasn't as important as it was now. Both Bush and Gore were born with silver spoons in their mouths. Bush got into Yale because of his family name. Gore got into Harvard because of his family name (at the time, his father was US Senator Al Gore Sr. of Tennessee). The same thing could be said for John Kerry, a descendent of the Forbes family (Kerry's middle name is 'Forbes'), and educated at elite boarding schools in the US and in Europe. Kerry got into Yale because of his family background.
The reality is that all of these guys were born in privilege and used that privilege to get where they are. All 3 of them did that. If you want to castigate Bush for being an academic lightweight, then fine, then to be fair, you should castigate Gore as well. If you want to impugn Bush for being a man born into privilege, then fine, if you want to be fair, you have to impugn both Gore and Kerry too. What's fair is fair.
|By Jab93 (Jab93) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit|
So Bush and Gore are equally academic lightweights... agreed?
Political Science 13B: 71 (C-)
Sociology 55A: 70 (C-)
Economics 10A: 71 (C-)
Economics 10B: 72 (C-)
Class rank freshman year: bottom 21%
I guess these economics, sociology, and poly sci grades explain his domestic and national policy, eh? Good thing for tutors, err I mean "advisors."
Astronomy: 69 (D+)
Anthropology 25: 88 (B+) his best grade ever at Yale
Overall GPA: 77 (C/C+)
Bush's lowest grade: D+
Bush's best grade: B+
Bush's average: C/C+
"Yet when Mr. Bush received his Yale diploma in 1968, he had third-rate grades, second-rate accomplishments and no firm career prospects. There was, however, one area where he had excelled: he had a huge number of very close friends, and long after course grades were forgotten, those friends would still stand by him, reach into their pockets for him and help propel him into politics. "
|By Sakky (Sakky) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 01:43 am: Edit|
I agree that both of them were academic lightweights. I've never disputed that academically speaking, Bush is weak. But so was Al Gore.
Now, in answer to the original question over whether somebody could get into Harvard with a low gpa, and by that I presume the asker meant Harvard College, you have your answer - Al Gore.
|By Irock1ce (Irock1ce) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit|
Gore pwn3d Bush on the SATs.
|By Sakky (Sakky) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit|
Gore is probably naturally smarter than Bush, I freely agree. But neither of them were exactly the most diligent of students.
|By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 11:22 pm: Edit|
Colin Powell was a D student at CUNY. I don't think anyone assumes he isn't intelligent because of it.
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