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i have a question..

i will be attending Dartmouth in the fall, and this year they are impleting a Neuroscience major (finally) after only having the minor for years...i don't declare my major till sophomore year, but i am pretty sure it will be Neuroscience..

my question is, do you think going into such a new program may hurt me? since the major will not have time to develop a name for itself? i would like to attend a good med school like Yale, UCSD, or somewhere else really good for Neuroscience...opinions?

By Sarahisscared (Sarahisscared) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 11:34 am: Edit

I am about to be a senior, and am quite worried about choosing a college path that will "jive" well with my premed plan.

My main question was for anyone in the medical field:

Many people I have talked to recently said that doctors are a league of their own, dancing to the beat of a drum of their own making. I have done a good bit of self-searching, and have found that I love children, and taking care of them, and I love science. (my plan is, obviously, in pediatrics) The problem, however, is that I also enjoy learning English, and History, and Math, and even Choir. In medical school, are you so wrapped up into developing yourself into the doctor you wish to be that it takes up your whole self? Or is there still time to develop other interests and broaden your scope on the world?

By Psedrish_Md (Psedrish_Md) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Polly: Yes, Kaplan is fine. It gives you a good course outline and good study materials, as well as good feedback on what your weak-spots are with regard to the various exam sections.

Jolt: The Dartmouth pgm's newness should not have a negative impact on your chances for getting into a good med school, though if it turns out to be extremely difficult grade-wise, it will not have been a good choice.

Sarah: You can be a pediatrician & develop a life full of arts & humanities, though these will necessarily be placed on hold during med school & residency. In other words, for that 7 year period of time, don't count on anything besides your bedside radio for arts & entertainment.
That period of confinement is the best reason I can think of to suggest you (& everyone who can do so) enjoy a very liberal arts education as an undergraduate. It is also why I am in general dubious about the impact of the combined BS-MD pgms.

By Obeanb (Obeanb) on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 11:41 am: Edit

Dr. Psedrish,

I know this is a very touchy subject to prospective doctors and people often get scolded when bringing the subject up, however, with the medical care system always evolving, how much do doctors of my generation stand to make compared to our parents/baby boomers? I know I would never go in to medicine for the money or into any profession for that matter, but I really have no idea? I always thought that Doctors were very upper-middle class people but I dont know with all the "stuff" going on.
Will doctors need some "passive income" of some sort in the future because theyre making no more than a school teacher? My father told me that doctors usually never make good business people because theyre academics at heart, so I just thought I'd ask.

By Psedrish_Md (Psedrish_Md) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Well, it's a hot topic for sure. No lunch time in the doctors' dining room ever passes without a few people spinning tales of financial woe. These are intermingled with stories about new BMWs & trips to Europe. So what's really going on here?

Well, things are in flux and old ideas and lifestyles are slipping away. Most docs are indeed "upper middle class" (whatever that is), but many lived a bit too lavishly. As incomes continue to fall, these folks are often poorly buffered and feel the pinch quite acutely. They are the tellers of most of the tales of woe.

On the other hand, I know more than a few docs who used their cash wisely in the 90s and invested in the dot com boom market. Lots of these folks are either retired or practicing on a limited scope that keeps their stress down and their interest (in medicine) up. They are that happy marriage of luck & wisdom.

The new docs in the neighborhood probably are already entering with lowered economic expectations. Most of the medical students I speak with nowadays plan on joining a large group or HMO; very few are planning on going into solo practice it seems.
These folks can be divided into 2 groups: one group that has entered practice from the private school route & another that has done so via the state school or military route. The difference btwn them can easily be $250,000 of debt. Of course the former will struggle mightily to pay that debt off while the latter may be quite comfortable with their new salary.

This gets at the core of your question then: how much will docs be making in the next decade? Nobody knows for sure, but I'll be happy to prognosticate for you. I estimate (there is absolutely zero science to this, mind you) that in 2014, using today's dollars, average gross incomes will be:

Pediatrics: $ 70,000
Internal Med: $ 90,000
IM Specialty: $110,000
Gen Surgery: $125,000
OB-GYN: $150,000
Orthopedics: $180,000
Neurosurgery: $200,000
CardioVasc: $250,000

Now then, are docs generally "bad business people"?
Yes, thanks, mostly we are. We are not economists, we are humanists. We won't turn away a patient who cannot pay, we'll spend whatever time is necessary to care for the sick patient, we'll write off debts for patients in economic trouble, we rarely sue health plans that go bust and leave us hanging in the breeze, etc.

Seen in another light, it's nothing for a busy 2 M.D. family practice to have gross billings of over a million dollars. All the decisions for this little corporation are generally made by the docs themselves, often between seeing patients and making hospital rounds. The decisons are carried out by office managers and bookkeepers and these people tend not to be extraordinarily well trained either. The results then can be less than spectacular.

Lastly, let me say this: you won't get through med school & training if money is your primary goal. In addition, if it happens to be your primary goal, you'd be looking in the wrong place.

By Spydersport824 (Spydersport824) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Dr. Sedrish,
Some people are saying that as cardiology becomes less and less invasive, that there will not be as big a need for cadiac surgeons in the future. I dont believe this to be completely true as I think that by cardiology being less invasive, it is because we now have the technology for microsurgery,etc. Can you clarify this?

By Tennizpro06 (Tennizpro06) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 11:26 am: Edit

Hi, I'm a graduating senior this year and seriously considering going to med school. I was wondering whether there were any good books (or websites) that discussed steps to take to getting into med school and prepping for the MCATs.

By Psedrish_Md (Psedrish_Md) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 01:44 pm: Edit

Spyder: There will always be Cardio-Thoracic Surgeons and they'll always make a lot of money. That they may lose a portion of their business to Interventional Radiologists is almost certain, but they'll still do fine.

Tenniz: That's kind of the whole gist of this board. Go back and read the archives.

By Peepilis (Peepilis) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Pediatrics: $ 70,000
Internal Med: $ 90,000
IM Specialty: $110,000
Gen Surgery: $125,000
OB-GYN: $150,000
Orthopedics: $180,000
Neurosurgery: $200,000
CardioVasc: $250,000

To respectfully disagree, you're estimating pediatrics salaries to fall by over 50% and with inflation and all... I think those numbers are a bit bogus. Logically, I just don't see that happening as it would set a mark for one of the most drastic declines in salary for any profession, ever.

By Tennizpro06 (Tennizpro06) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

i can't seem to find the books.. in this thread or on the board anywhere using the message search for medical school books. could you please direct me some links? thanks-

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 05:30 pm: Edit

i've posted about research on another page, but i think it really belongs here since i AM in hs... as i've said, i did two mnths of research at psu as part of gov. school curriculum. this summer, i'm doing a lot of volunteering/job at a physician's office so i expect that my service will look decent/good. i founded the red cross club at my hs, nd did a lot with that. i have all sorts of service certifications (1st aid/cpr/emt)...my service end has a lot of weight; however, i realize my research is pretty weak. i'll be applying to lehigh, gw, villanova, psu, temple, and drexel. how will the adcomm view me?? thanks.

By Reisen (Reisen) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 07:12 am: Edit

Dr Psedrish, I was just wondering what are the chances that an international student has of getting into an M.D. program in the US? How about the M.D.-PhD program?

By Lisasimpson (Lisasimpson) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

hey, does anybody have a list of colleges that have early assurance policies for students. like the ones that give you early acceptance into med school before you even get into college. thanks

By Laceycheer (Laceycheer) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 08:13 am: Edit

lol this is kind of silly I guess. My sister got mad at me the other night... and she said something that really scared me. She told me that she doubted that I would ever become a doctor bc I am "at the bottom rung of all the people going on to med school"... just wondering if she's blowing smoke....

I have a 1340 (710V630M)/4.13 GPA/ in the 4% of a class of 600/have taken 4 APS, will take 5 next year/ Varsity Cheer, Varsity weightlifting, School Newpaper, Quill and Scroll, NHS, Beta, Jrettes, and SGA Senior Class President/ comm. service tutoring little kids, and hs kids in chem and algebra/

so... yeah, thats all i can think of for now

By Sakky (Sakky) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Honestly, guys, don't go into medicine for the money. The money that doctors make really isn't all that impressive. I know that might strike some of you as incongruous, but rest assured that I'm totally serious. There are far far easier ways to make a lot of money, if that's what you really want.

For example, if you want to make a lot of money, then after undergrad, get a job as an investment banking analyst at a major firm (the so-called 'bulge-bracket') in Wall Street. Do that for 2-3 years, then go to a top-flight business school, like Wharton, for your MBA. Go back to investment banking and work like a dog. If you can stay in the field, you'll make more money than any doctor could ever dream about.


Consider these compensation packages. Remember, these are 1999 dollars.

http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm

Now let me be clear, this is a very hard road. Investment banking is highly competitive and tremendously tedious. But, hey, so is the whole med-school process. Pre-med is viciously competitive. The competition doesn't stop when you hit med-school, to the contrary, it heightens, because everybody wants to get into a good residency program. It was mentioned that Cardio-thoracic surgeons will always make good money. That is true, but the problem is that you can't just simply decide one fine day that you want to do CT. To do CT, you have to get accepted into a CT residency, and the competition for those spots is ridiculously fierce. So really, I don't think that the med-school track is significantly less competitive and less harsh than the investment banking track.

The point is that you should do medicine because you actually want to do medicine. If all you what you want is money, there are far far easier ways to get it.

By Peepilis (Peepilis) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Wow, all I have to do is become the department head to start making up to 70 million a year! Shakky, aren't you an engineering major...?

By Sakky (Sakky) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Don't get me wrong, it is tremendously harsh to become a department head of a bulge-bracket Ibank. I'm not trying to make it seem like it's easy.

But what I'm saying is that if all you want is money, medicine is not the way to go. Go into finance. Even a relatively low-level associate only a few years after getting his MBA, working at, say, Goldman Sachs or Merrill Lynch, will probably be making more money than most doctors. And after that, you don't have to stay in investment banking unless you really want to. If you really don't think you have what it takes to make it to investment-banking Vice President (which is hard, but not ridiculously hard, because Ibanks have lots of VP positions), then, fine, you can bail to a mutual fund or a private-equity firm, or become Controller or VP of Corporate Finance for a regular company and make a very very good living. From there, you can become CFO and then ultimately CEO (arguably the fastest track to the top of any company is through finance).

Look, I'm not trying to tell you that it's going to be easy. Indeed, it will be quite difficult. But hey, so is cramming for the MCAT's. So is staying up for 36 hour shifts while in med-school. So is scrambling like a dog to try to get into a good residency. Both lifestyles are very hard. But if you've resolved that you're willing to work hard, and all you want is money, then do finance. You should do medicine because you want to do medicine, not because of the money. If all you want is money, there are far more direct ways to get it.

By Psedrish_Md (Psedrish_Md) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Amen to that Sakky!

By Peepilis (Peepilis) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 01:37 am: Edit

"But if you've resolved that you're willing to work hard, and all you want is money, then do finance."

Well said. After all, business is the pursuit of profit... yet somethings in life can be more satisying. I just have to feel sorry for the type of person you described: "all you want is money."

By Myrmidon_Ian (Myrmidon_Ian) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 01:59 am: Edit

Hi, Dr. Psedrish, from the reply you gave to Jolt in the earlier posts, u mentioned "....if it turns out to be extremely difficult grade-wise, it will not have been a good choice." and exactly, that's what i am worried the most. I am going to the university of chicago this fall, a school knowned notoriously for its grade-deflation, if not, low GPA performance because the "studnets do not get what they deserved from all the hard working they've done," that really gets me worried since i do not want my GPA to be so low that i cannot compete with the other candidates.

when i visited the campus the reps said regularly other med schools will know that UChicago is known for their lower GPAs, but does that really make a difference when it comes down to admission?

my second question is, i intend to major in something that's not biologically related (since i still haven't truly made up my mind about medicine yet), and i realized that strong internship expereinces can help one applying to med schools. Now the problem comes: i already found it difficult to get a biologically related internship or even jobs in labs if i don't major in biology, then how should i gain my experiences that will helpe me when applying to med shcools?

thank you so much!

By Ilovecollege (Ilovecollege) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 01:35 pm: Edit

hey everyone!!!

i was just wondering...what are some top pre-med schools in the country??

Also, is there a difference between the 7 year program (could anyone give me examples of top colleges w/ that) and regular pre-med??

thanks so much!!!

By Maud (Maud) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 02:32 pm: Edit

The seven year program allows you to finish your undergrad in 3 years, as opposed to 4, and *guarantees* you admission into that school's (or a partner school's) med school
there are 8 year programs also that allow students to complete undergrad in the regular 4 years and continue to med school for the next four years, they aren't accelerated like the 7 year, (or 6 year, but i think all schools got rid of those, not sure though)

Regular pre-med just means that you can major in any subject as long as you complete the requirements for applying to med school, for example you can major in English but complete the requirements for med school like bio, chem, etc, in undergrad

for specific programs, like Northwestern's, George Washington's, Brown's, etc. (I don't know them all of the top of my head) you could look up past threads that have lists of the schools

hope that helped!

By Ilovecollege (Ilovecollege) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Maud-- thanks so much for replying!!!!

but i was wondering, so are u guaranteed admission to med school for the 8 yr pre-med as well??

also, what type of grades do u need for pre-med...and more importantly, what activities/summer things can you do?? I am sorry this sounds really ignorant, I just don't know a whole lot about this college process thing!!

thanks so much!!!!!

By Maud (Maud) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 03:14 pm: Edit

hey thats ok, I didnt know much about the whole process either, but I'm going to be a senior next year so I decided that I better start getting more info..and fast! lol

um about the 8 year programs, I'm pretty sure you're guaranteed admission, as long as you keep up your grades during undergrad and meet requirements
most places dont require you to take the MCAT, although some do (but you should check with others on this im not 100% sure)

For grades you definately have to be in the top 10% in your high school, and have at least above 3.5 if not closer to 4.0 GPA,
the accelerated med programs are really competitive and selective, and some even have minimum SAT and GPA requirements (mostly in the 1400s and above for SAT)

As for summer, I guess volunteering at a hospital or at a nearby medical clinic would give you good experience, and maybe working at labs or shadowing scientists/doctors would be good also
basically its important that you don't just do activities that will "look good" to the admissions officers, but that interest you
it's a good idea to volunteer at hospitals or shadow doctors because often people will find out they don't want to go into medicine at all, which saves them time and expense,
on the other hand, working/volunteering in the medical field may just strengthen your interests even further, its really up to you

if you have more questions you can always check the past threads, they have a lot of info

when are you planning to apply to accelerated med programs? i'm just asking because the requirements and such might change in the future...not sure though

(lol sry for the really long post but I hope I helped!)

By Gangsta (Gangsta) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 04:54 pm: Edit

The best 7-year BS/MD programs are:
Northwestern's HPME, Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst (RPI)'s Physician-Scientist, Boston Univ's program, and PSU/Jefferson which is 6-years, but I think has the option for a 7-year track. These 4 programs are established and have graduated outstanding doctors in all arrays of medicine.

By Omchainani (Omchainani) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit

I have a question regarding course selection as I have to choose between taking AP Spanish or AP Computer Science B, does it matter if I drop a fourth year of Spanish to take Comp B, or would it be better to drop computer and take Spanish?? Which would look better to Combined Med Programs?

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 10:43 am: Edit

when applying for rpi's program, is it better to have PRIOR research experience? now i know it's good to have when applying to any program, but since rpi's physician scientist has an emphasis on research.....???

By Luda (Luda) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Research always helps. I applied to the RPI program and got in. I also got into a number of other programs. All wanted research, but rpi emphasized it more. It also looks for a solid math/science background so high SAT scores in all those subjects are required. But, even if you don't have research experience, you should show lots of interest.

By Jenskate1 (Jenskate1) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 10:47 pm: Edit

About your course selection problem - I dropped AP french last year in order to take an EMT class. As long as you can explain why you did it and what you've learned from it, i think it should be ok...worked for me.

Jenn

By Shykitten361 (Shykitten361) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 12:29 pm: Edit

hi!
i'm hoping to go to rutgers for pre-pharmacy but i don't know which campus to sign up for......oh and does it take longer to get ur ph.d than the pharm.d?

By Raky (Raky) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 02:45 pm: Edit

BA/BS in 3 yrs and then Med school (not BA/MD program)

Will apperciate if Dr. Psedrish or some one else could please answer this.

If one is going to MED school via regular premed route, how practical
it is to finish BA/BS in 3 yrs and get accepted into Med school.
What I think with 6+ APs it should be really doable to finish all premed
course work in 3 yrs (at a regular mid-tier school). But what about Med schools?
Do they easily accept such students? Are any such stats available anywhere?

TIA,Raky

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 09:11 pm: Edit

i have tried and tried and tried to get a research position at the local universities (of which there are 2) and have been turned down unfailingly. i WAS, however, offered the opportunity to shadow the researchers. should i take the bait??? is it worth it??? my sat ii science score is pretty good--770--and my math is good--800--so the whole math/science background is pretty safe.

By Luda (Luda) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 09:27 pm: Edit

What is your SAT I score/class rank Papacutta if you don't mind me asking. Your math/science scores are what I got and put you at the top. Following a research is great, anything that puts you in the lab is what they want to see. Feel free to ask any other questions.

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 09:42 am: Edit

sat i 1520 (790 verbal 730 math--i am a bit disappointed with the math score, but the score will be good enough i think...?). class rank 2/385. then i'll go with this shadowing thing--i did get a job in a pediatrician's office though--how many applicants typically do something like that? also, would it be wise to get a job at giant or something? would bring me back down to earth, maybe. haha. oh, 720 writing--just got scores right now........yea, i'm retaking them in the fall (in the midst of applications!!!! is this practical???). anyways, thanks so much for your insight.

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 09:51 am: Edit

another question: i attend a southern pennsylvania public school....average sat of 1120 or something. will this make my 4.1 gpa look foolish when compared with someone's from, say, thomas jefferson hs for science and technology (average sat of 15-something....)?

By Luda (Luda) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Papacutta, your writing score is competitive. I'm not sure if there is really a need to retake that score. It is only entirely necessary if the score is below 700. Your rank says that at you are at the top so thats fine and your SAT score is great. You have a great chance of getting into a couple BS/MD programs as long as your interview is okay. Don't worry bout the GPA/scores. They are above average for all the programs.

By Maud (Maud) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Yes, I agree Papacutta, you don't really need to retake the Writing SAT, especially since your Verbal is 790. Plus, you can show the admissions officers you know how to write through your essays, which will probably be more effective anyway

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:00 am: Edit

haha yea i know it will be tight if i retake it in the fall right in the midst of apps.......but i'm still kindof mentally strung up about the score since i've heard that u should have sat iis above 750.

i have a question about letters of recommendation: i will be applying to several programs, so how do i account for all the different recommendation prompts? i can't just give the recommender a stack of recommendation forms!!! lol. i know about common application, but what about the schools that don't accept the ca? and i know gw has its own personal special program recommendation!!!! how is everyone else going to handle this???

By Dholi2 (Dholi2) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 01:06 pm: Edit

I have a question regarding the number of schools to apply to. I will be applying to 4 yr undergrad schools as well as to these 7-yr med school programs. So, basically, I am stuck playing the number game. Here's what I have in my mind: about 7 combined programs and about 10-15 regular undergrad schools. What are others doing in terms of number of schools to apply to? What is reasonable/not reasonable???

By Jefiner41 (Jefiner41) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 03:38 pm: Edit

I have a question on physician assistants programs.

I've looked at previous messages and on the web, but I can't seem to find an exact way to become one. I know you have to go to an accredited school that forms people into PA's, but does anyone know of any in Texas? Do normal medical schools do this as well?

Also, can you do this with any major just like normal pre-med programs? I ask this because I want to major in a form of Math, but I don't exactly know which type to go in or if I should just stick with Biology (not my strongest area.. trust me!).

Please respond!

By Faizzan (Faizzan) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:12 pm: Edit

As i might have told you before that I was continueing to work in the laboratory at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine. along with it comes an oppurtunity a program called Medbound if i complete the summber research fellowship program successfully i have chances to get in to the program(medbound)

Med bound is a program that garuntees admissions to Mount Sinai school of Medicine with conditions. the academic part and then the research part. The academic is not what im worried abt or have concerns abt. However the research consists of me devouting 3-4 summers in research at Mount sinai school of med...however my interests are for the next 3 or so years vary. i have interests in doing research at Columbia, Cornell, and Vanderbilt for the summers lieing ahead. My goals are to reach higher standards gaining admissions to Harvard, hopkins, columbia, yale, Cornell medical schools etc. part of the reason why i passed up an oppurtunity for sophie davis school of biomedical education a 7 year cuny med program was so that i be able to consider vanderbilt, emory, hopkins, as undergrad institutions so that these institutions serve in opening the doors to higher education.

I understand the fact that whichever or whatever i do academically things wont vary. ill have to do well in either scenerio. A main part of the reason why im hopeing to quit research is because ive done this for 3 full years straight. the motivation and the drive just isnt enough to kick me to get up everyday and travel 1 1/2 hour one way to get to mssm. Many have said that my years at Vanderbilt will be tough and that it would be a good idea to take a vacation before starting. If possible, Do let me know what your thoughts are and advices. Thank you soo much for all that you have done and continue to do.

By Sk6488 (Sk6488) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:34 pm: Edit

How hard is it to get into Hopkins premed program.

Will a 1430/750/700/710 be good enough.

If not where else do i have a good shot?

By Vtran31 (Vtran31) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:48 am: Edit

Sarahisscared , I'm just a high schooler too, but a lot of what I've read seems to say u don't have too much of a social life. or sleep. there is a new book out that i checked out form the library called WHAT I LEARNED IN MEDICAL SCHOOL: PERSONAL STORIES OF YOUNG DOCTORS. I thought it was relly awesome

something i heard too is a lot of peopel become callous during these years.

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 09:54 am: Edit

i've heard that hopkins premed isn't the best undergrad if u intend to go into medicine...... one source was a hopkins graduate. ur scores are decent, but what else do u have to lay on the table besides numbers?

By Inspiration (Inspiration) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:02 pm: Edit

yea..i have a question..which colleges are considered best for someone who wants to major in psychology? Which one is easiest to get into?

By Psedrish_Md (Psedrish_Md) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:17 pm: Edit

My guess is those will be 2 different schools.

By Abrandel05 (Abrandel05) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:22 pm: Edit

hopkins premed is pretty damn good. Lets be realistic, everyone knows the school for the hopsital and biomed. Their accept rates are really really high, even to MD/PhD programs. You definately wont get hurt going to JHU, its all about your style preference, because its a different education

By Faizzan (Faizzan) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 01:44 am: Edit

Psedrish_Md

can u please answer my question when u have the time do so.

Thank You

By Sk6488 (Sk6488) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Is it better to go into a combined 6,7 years program at a descent university ot go to premed at a very good university.

By Luda (Luda) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:58 pm: Edit

def. a 6/7 year program. No guarantee you'll make it through pre-med at places like JHU and other competitive undergrad schools. The weeding out process is crazy and many have to takes years off, or go into another field. The 7-year program saves money and stress.

By Abrandel05 (Abrandel05) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:18 pm: Edit

but it also limits your options, maybe youll want a change when your through with college?

By Sk6488 (Sk6488) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:51 pm: Edit

My family moved around i lot i have been to 3 different high schools due to this my extracurricular activities are sub par.

will this affect my admission chances?

By Bharath2007 (Bharath2007) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:24 am: Edit

abrandel- so then you can drop out and finish your studies at that school/or transfer...

By Chochocho (Chochocho) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Can someone clarify this for me? How can you be premed while majoring in history, or art, or majors that do not relate to science? Doesnt premed consist of multiple science courses? Or do i have the concept of pre-med all wrong? Someone please correct me. thx.

By Jefiner41 (Jefiner41) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Chochocho, you can still get the required science courses by majoring in something else. Trust me.. you'll get all the health and science courses you need in medical school. After all, medical schools will accept any major. If you really like science, then go ahead. Remember, you want to major in something that you like in case medical school isn't right at the moment.

If any one of the professionals want to add on or correct me, go ahead. lol! I just added my .02 .

By Floopowder (Floopowder) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 01:12 am: Edit

i am looking into a career in pediatric oncology in the future and will be doing premed this coming fall at UCI and was wondering if anyone could give me an idea on what types of extracurricular activities i should involve myself in as an undergrad that can give me an edge when applying for medical school.

By Dukedreamer (Dukedreamer) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Question: Not taking anything else into account, a 3.3 GPA from a "not so good" college like Virginia Tech or NC State is better than a 3.2 GPA from a "better" school, like Duke, Harvard, or Stanford. Is this true??

By Chochocho (Chochocho) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 01:18 pm: Edit

oh sry let me restate my question. what does it mean when someone says "i'm taking premed"?thx.

By Best219 (Best219) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Hello,I will be a senior this up and coming school year and my gpa is 80.5885% what pre-med schools can I get into, please respond. Thank you for your time.

By Luda (Luda) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:54 am: Edit

3.3 and 3.2 are very close so it depends. But, if standardized scores are the same and a NC State has a 3.6 and a Duke person has a 3.3, the NC State student will definitely go in. And, I'm sure that a 3.3 at Duke will be very difficult. If you're going for medicine, it's not always the best idea to go to the "powerhouses of pre-med" like JHU cause competition is the most intense. Alot of pre-meds get weeded out even though they could've gotten in if they had gone to another school. But because of curving and high quality of students, stellar students get a 3.2 and can't get in to med. school. Many are forced to take a year off doing something to get in and JHU will encourage this so it doesn't pull down their pre-med acceptance statistics.

By Roja (Roja) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Think there is a magic formula for med school admissions? That without graduating summa cum laude from highschool, getting your BS, research etc, you won't get into med school?

There is NO magic formula. It is not merely grades and scores.

Don't believe me?

Here's me:
-GED
-BA in Cinema, Magna Cum Laude with dept honors
-Masters in Aesthetic Studies (incomplete) from UT-D while taking premed reqs.
-Strong MCAT.
-Absolutely NO research
-Shadowing an MD in pedi rheum. (ie no glamour, no 'contacts'.)
-First choice in med school
-First choice in residency.

So, what helps out? Knowing WHAT and WHY you want to go into medicine and most importantly being able to verbalize this.

Having solid grades, no matter what your major.
Doing well on the MCAT.
Doing those things that make you YOU.

The most important thing you can do is realize yes, you need to do well in school to get into med school. but there isn't a magic check off list. And you have to have a life outside of all this... Its what's going to seperate you form the tens of thousands of other premed bio majors who volunteer and do research.

By Psedrish_Md (Psedrish_Md) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Roja...nice note/nice story. Congrats. Gonna do pedi rheum?

By Dukedreamer (Dukedreamer) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Can a person go strait from high school to Med school without going 4 yrs for his BS? I know some people don't even finish their BS.

I will finish Physics, Bio, General Chem, English, and Calc (on the college level) by the time I finish high school, and I will take inorganic and organic through duel enrollment. As long as I take the MCAT and make a decent score, can I go strait to med school?

By Bharath2007 (Bharath2007) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 06:04 pm: Edit

NO almost all medical schools require a bachelors degree. They aren't even impressed with those who graduate in three years let alone those who don't even attend undergrad.

By Spydersport824 (Spydersport824) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Really? My friend just received his BS with honors from the University of Detroit Mercy in 3 years and was accepted to medical schools and just chose to attend the University of Michigan Medical School (which he picked over Duke Med)

By Prospective (Prospective) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Dr. Psedrish:
I am considering medical school, but I have many other interests I wish to pursue in college. I was wondering if you could tell me what are the "8 or so individual pre-med level science courses" that I need to take.
Thank you.

By Psedrish_Md (Psedrish_Md) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 03:13 pm: Edit

General chem 2 sems, organic chem 2 sems, gen biology 2 sems, gen physics 2 sems, +/- math 1 yr. All must be taken at a pre-med level.

By Doc1 (Doc1) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Spydersport, ya your right. I have been hearing alot about undergrad students who have attended UDM and went on to great med schools. My friend told me that is has to do with the advanced biology and science classes.

Also, did you attend the medical science academy at UVM-ann arbor? How was that like? (I think you were the one mentioned going for this program)!

By Spydersport824 (Spydersport824) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Doc1- No, I was considering going to the Medical School Summer Science Academy (SSA) at UMich-Ann Arbor. However I attended the National Youth Leadership Forum (NYLF) on Medicine in Phoenix, AZ this past June instead. I decided to go to NYLF because the UMich SSA is actually geared more towards URM's, although it is open to everyone. Also, I thought that going to NYLF would be a nice change of scenery and NYLF is much larger than SSA.

By Papucutta (Papucutta) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 09:27 pm: Edit

not to be rude or ignorant, but isn't nylf a scam??? like nylc, nycongressionalconference, who's who, national honor roll, etc...??? or was i a little too foolhardy in passing up the opportunity?

By Spydersport824 (Spydersport824) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 02:49 pm: Edit

papucutta- No, nylf is not a scam. However, it is not a difficult program to get into. Basically everyone is nominated for the program so do not go into it thinking that it is a selective program such as MIT's RSA. But, programs like NYLF do provide excellent experience into the medical field (or whatever you are looking into). You will listen to nationally renowned guest speakers, tour great hospitals, and participate in research/debate exercises. For example, at NYLF, I listened to Dr. Neil Shulman "The Real Doc Hollywood" and one of the doctors who founded the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, AZ. Now, some of the things we did were extremely boring and useless...such as our medical school visit to the University of Arizona. We showed up 1.5 hours late because the busses had problems and the UofAZ decided to cut out the tour then and proceed with a barrage of useless speeches of financial aid. We had come to see how the medical school is run, not to attend a college financial aid workshop.lol. Also, some of the hospital visits were not organized well at all. But, at the same time, some were amazing. The Banner Good Samaritan Hospital is a Regional Hospital in the Phoenix area but was the best site visit of all. My friends who went to Banner Good Sam were allowed to scrub up and go into the OR to witness first hand a C-section, heart surgery, or surgery of a tumor of the colon. The speakers were well prepared and the tour was excellent from what they told me. But, the best thing you can take away from a forum such as NYLF is the people you meet. You will make amazing friends who will become like family within only a few days. My group is already talking about a reunion for next summer! So, I think that programs such as NYLF are considered a scam only because they are not extremely selective, but the majority of the people who attend are very bright and academically motivated.....and surprisingly they are not nerds!

By Spydersport824 (Spydersport824) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 02:51 pm: Edit

oh yeah, things such as who's who and national honor roll are scams because they require you to pay just to have your name on a list. They do not provide anything spectacular and for those they should be very selective if it really is a "prestigious honor."

By Antique (Antique) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Hey Spydersport,
You're from MI, right?

Are you planning on applying to any BS/MD programs in MI?

I'm thinking about it, but I don't know of alot.

Thanks for any help.

BTW, I'm from MI too.

By Spydersport824 (Spydersport824) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Antique- Yeah, I'm from Troy,MI in Oakland County. I'm not sure if I'm applying to any bs/md programs. But if you are looking into bs/md, look at michigan state and others mentioned on this site that are outside of Michigan.

By Bharath2007 (Bharath2007) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 08:26 pm: Edit

Wayne State is starting a BS/MD program next year I've heard. (Im from Michigan too)

By Antique (Antique) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Hey Bharath and Spydersport,

I'm kind of worried about where I stand in this whole BS/MD situation, and I hope you don't mind me asking about your stats.

Do you have to have like stellar stats to get into these kinds of programs or not?

Thanks a lot for any help.

By Bharath2007 (Bharath2007) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 05:31 pm: Edit

It depends on the program, but in general I think that one needs a 1450+ and top 5% to stand a chance at most medical programs provided that one has excellent recommendations, extra curricular activities, and essays. Having a 1600/4.0 will not compensate for a lack of medical experience so in this case stellar stats are not what is sought after. FYI (When I was part of the group acquainting the PPSP kids, I made a note that one entire table of 8 all scored 1600)

By Spydersport824 (Spydersport824) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit

I agree completely with Bharath. I'm a high school senior, so I don't know as much as others, but from speaking to older friends and reading this board I have gained some insights.

By Gangsta (Gangsta) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 06:52 pm: Edit

In the RPI Physician-Scientist Program, most of the students have significant research experience and scores above 700 in all SAT subjects. In terms of rank, top 5% I would say. You should have a good shot with upper 1400/lower 1500, good grades, and experience. The interview is the main thing where you make it or break it.

By Bbysweet6 (Bbysweet6) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 02:17 am: Edit

I was wondering what type of courses am I suppose to get my first semester of my freshmen year?
For EC activities is swimming and yoga ok?

By Sacrificet (Sacrificet) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 09:26 pm: Edit

I got a lotta questions about premed/med/career options in this field.
1) Isn't it true that for most schools that there's no 'premed program', but just a track and you take courses to fulfill the requirement for med school?
2) after the MD degree (which i assume will be about 8 years after freshmen year in college), do you move straight on to residency? employment? or a PhD degree?
3) Out of all these schools, which school has the best premed track/program, and maybe has the best med school so that i could go directly from undergrad to med school? [Cornell, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Columbia, UChicago, Wash U, U Mich]
4) Being an international student, would it be harder to a) get in med school b) find residency/employment after getting an M.D.?

By Killaerone (Killaerone) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 03:28 am: Edit

Hello! Does anyone have an opinion on pros and cons of going to dental school and becoming a dentist versus going to medical school and becoming a doctor. I would like to be able to make educated decisions in the future with my careers. Can anyone help me out?

btw- Do dentist work residency?- If so, How long?

-lee

By Bharath2007 (Bharath2007) on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 11:03 am: Edit

sacrificet- 1.)Yes 2.)Residency 3.)Irrelevant 4.) Yes exponentially harder

By Amihdir (Amihdir) on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 09:49 pm: Edit

I will be a senior in high school this fall but I am enrolled in a program that allows me to take full time college classes along with my last two years of high school. So, by the time I graduate from high school I will have two years of college completed. I am working towards a biomedical engineering major and completing premed requirements. I have a four year plan which will allow me to graduate in 2007. I will be 20 that summer, and I have heard that med schools usually don’t accept students under the age of 21. Is this true at all?

If it is, what should I for the extra year? Should I take some classes and maybe complete another major, or get some experience?

Thanks a lot for any help!

By Nyugrad (Nyugrad) on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 08:46 am: Edit

I know someone who applied to med school at 17. They accepted her and asked her to wait until she was 18 to attend.

By Reisen (Reisen) on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 09:43 am: Edit

Hi guys,
I have heard from people that it is extremely difficult for an international student to obtain an M.D. in the united states...but can anyone tell more about the chances of one getting into a medical school in the united states after a college education in the states? Also which are the medical schools which accept internationals? And is the pre-med programme open to all? Thanks!

By Amihdir (Amihdir) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Thanks for replying Nyugrad. So, you think I should apply to med school whenever I get done with my undergrad? What if I dont get accepted? Will it look bad if I apply again?

By Pianoman (Pianoman) on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 10:13 pm: Edit

I was looking in the archives recently, and I noticed some high school students worked as "Cardiac Monitor Technicians" and as EMT's also. I am a high school junior, and I am extremely interested in the medical field, so how do you go about training for and working in the jobs when you are not yet 18? Thanks.