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I need match schools. Here are my stats first.
Asian from Texas.
SAT I: 1600
PSAT: 232
SAT II:
Writing: 770 (retaking)
Math IIC: 800
Chem: 800

Rank: 1/500
Hardest courseload available. Will have completed 15 AP Classes by the end of the year.
One 4 till now, in foreign language. Rest 5s.

ECs:
I. Music
Have held officer positions in orchestra since grade 10
Professional Orchestra
Concertmaster
State and regional ratings (though never tried out for all state)
Perform at various functions with quartet.

II. Academics
Academic State Placings and Individual and Team Awards (Team Championships)
Foreign Language: National and State Awards (1st in state in some events).
BPA 1st regionals (does this count)?
In a Geograpy Competition, with first place school scores, led school to third place in nation.

III. Miscellaneous
Student Council Leadership Committee
President and Founder of Community Service Group, around 20 kids.
Math and Science Club Officer.
Chess Club VP as underclassman.
Cross Country/Track
Member of Service Organization
Published entertainment reviews in local newspaper.
Won some best student award crap

IV. Travel
Have Traveled very extensively and have audited senior level university courses around the world (on European economics and Art Interpretation and History etc.)

V. Research
Researched various business programs and online programs to present to dean of a huge public university (top two in size in nation).

Should I use travel in my essay? Essays will be below average (started a week ago) and teacher recs will be typical (nothing stellar). Will get principal rec.

Reach:
Princeton (ED)
Harvard
Yale
MIT
U Penn Wharton

Reach but not as much:
Rice
Darmouth
U Penn
Northwestern
Georgetown
UT Plan II and Business Honors

Safety:
UT
Texas A&M (top ten percent)

Can you give me some matches?

By Ubercollegeman (Ubercollegeman) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 05:06 am: Edit

I would say you're selling yourself short. Your ECs aren't "through the roof" but they are good. Your academics/numbers are definitely impressive.

Your reaches are about right. Rice and Dartmouth are semi-matches. Northwestern and Georgetown are nice matches.

For kids like you, though, who are definitely gifted, I like the no-match approach. The question you have to ask yourself is, how happy would you be with your safe matches or safeties?

Take me, for example (dropping the modesty). A quick look at what I've done combined with my in-state status, and it's very obvious that I will be admitted to Berkeley. So, I ask myself, what schools would I rather go to than Berkeley, where I get a top education and pay less than half the price for it? Very few in the country.

Thus, my list consists of 8 reaches (HYPMSC + Duke + UPenn/Brown) and 3 safeties (UC Berkeley, LA, SD) with no matches. I would be happy at Berkeley, so I see no reason to apply to matches that are inferior in my opinion. In truth, I might even choose Berkeley over UPenn/Brown, given the choice.

So, how happy are you with UT or A&M? Could you see yourself really being happy there? If so, just go top-heavy. If not, I'd apply to Northwestern, Gtown, and probably U of Chicago too as matches. The odds that you make at least one of those three is more or less 100%.

Also, where's Stanford?

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 05:36 pm: Edit

I would not mind UT (Especially their business honors program), but of course, we are all aiming high. I would love to be in your shoes with an absolutely amazing in-state back up like Berkeley, but A&M is ok (my relatives have gone their). I would much rather choose UT.

Stanford is an amazing school, and one of my best friends picked it over Harvard. The only problem is that their essay prompts seem much more difficult than those of other schools. Also, I do not have as many relatives to the west as I have to the East, so my parents would be much cooler with me going East.

Northwestern has the Kellog school of business, which I am aiming for. About Princeton, how would you rank my ECs in comparison to those of the other applicants (Yes, I know it is obsessive, but I am honestly curious...on a scale of 1-10)...

My essays are turning out ok, but it seems like the general applicant pool has invested so much time on theirs. Not many people are available to edit mine, so I will be giving an essay that is mostly by my own discretion.

I am Asian, but honestly, I do not know how much this will hurt me (especially with my Asianish activity of violin). I am not incredibly hooked either.

In the sense of match schools, you are right, often most schools fall way below us (usu. auto admit) or vastly above us (HYPSMC). If anyone has around the "cutoff" where my chances go from around 20% to about 55%, please let me know.

Thanks!

By Gr8kids (Gr8kids) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 08:30 pm: Edit

Princeton doesn't offer an A.B. in business, so you'd have to follow a different path. They offer an economics degree and a finance certificate, however.

http://www.princeton.edu/pr/catalog/ua/03/013.htm

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Thanks a lot for letting me know...yeah, i talked to the adcoms, and they said the finance certificate was their most popular one. i am going for economics or, if by some strange stroke of luck, foreign policy.

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:21 pm: Edit

btw, is woodrow wilson school only for graduate work?

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 01:03 am: Edit

I agree that additional matches are not necessary in your case. You should be admitted to at least half your "reach but not as much schools," and if you would be happy at UT, which has a fine business school, I think you are in good shape.

But seeing Dartmouth, Rice and Northwestern on your list, William & Mary comes to mind as a possible match. Excellent international relations and solid business. Don't think you need it though.

Also, I'd be interested in what other posters think about retaking a 770 Writing SAT II. Seems unnecessary to me.

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 02:23 am: Edit

Haha, yes...it is just frustrating to have that scratch. I mean, can it hurt me significantly if I go down?

By Gr8kids (Gr8kids) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

The Woodrow Wilson School offers both undergraduate and graduate work.

http://www.wws.princeton.edu/degree/undergraduate.html

By Entropicgirl (Entropicgirl) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 03:47 pm: Edit

John_Updike: I'm in the same situation (1600, 800s on two SAT IIs, 770 on another one), but I decided not to retake for these reasons...

1. I'd have to restudy (took the offending SAT II sophomore year). And though I'm sure I'd get an 800 this time around, if I didn't (or if you didn't), I think it'd look pretty stupid.
2. I don't want to be TOO anal about test scores (honestly, when you've already got 4 800's, how much can a 770 hurt? better to put your energy to better use, like writing essays)
3. I'm really really too busy--would rather spend the time necessary for study and retake on writing essays, filling out forms, doing homework or clubwork...or just relaxing.

Anyway, think about it. But I don't think it'll kill you either way.

Oh, and I too am going the "no-matches" route--I decided Berkeley was AWESOME (though I personally consider it to be a match, just 'cause I'm paranoid like that), so I'm applying to some UC's, Stanford, Harvard, and Princeton. You're
ALREADY applying to so many schools...I'd be careful about adding more if I were you, just 'cause it'd probably be a waste of time and energy, and nobody wants that.

Good luck with everything

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Hey, thanks for all the advice!

I frankly don't see my 770 as horrible. It is just an eyesore, kind of like when you are at a 1590 and know you can do better. Haha, I will definitely consider what you are saying though. I have completed 1 of the 3 essays and have less than a month.

Also, the no match route is becoming a little difficult. For some reason, I cannot keep myself motivated. Today, two of my good friends were recruited for football by Harvard and Yale. Their ranks were less than the top 8% and their SATs were in the 1100s (they were both from incredibly rich white families)...I kinda feel all this is going against me and that all this is really pointless...haha, but whatever...im happy for them, just nervous for myself.

BTW, ironic about the scores. Exactly the same!

By Wobudong (Wobudong) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 06:57 pm: Edit

AP Lit and composition is a better indicator of writing ability than SAT2. If you scored a combination of 5 on the AP and 800 SAT1 verbal, you might have to dumb it down a bit to make 800 on SAT2 writing. The essay portion is graded to reward mere competence. Creativity is not part of the grading grid. Mr. Updike himself would not have scored particularly well. If I were on the adcom and saw a retake after a 770 combined with your other scores, I would wonder why you are so stat happy. Entropic is right. Spend your time on your essays.

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Well, I did score a 5 on AP lang, but intelligently, I skipped the last page of the SAT II...I did not even turn to it! This resulted in my missing the last 10 questions of the test. Other than that, I had missed two questions overall and got an 11/12 on the writing.

Gosh, even telling that story makes me want to slap myself.

By Celebrian23 (Celebrian23) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 07:52 pm: Edit

no matches sounds a bit risky-but hey it's your life not mine

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

well, celebrian, thanks for the new perspective. what matches would you suggest?

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 01:31 am: Edit

A no-match strategy is not risky if a student has a solid safety school he likes. It appears that UT-Austin is that school.

BTW - stay away from comparing your situation to recruited athletes. Those are slots you don't appear to be qualified for, so you aren't in competition with those guys.

Think about these priorities for the next couple of months - (#1) Making sure you are in good shape grade-wise this semester; (#2) Working on your essays; (#3) Having some fun; (and then a distant)(#4) Researching some additional matches, without forcing any additions to your list.

And I'd forget that retake.

By Slipper2002 (Slipper2002) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 02:27 am: Edit

Northwestern and Georgetown are matches for you, if not safety/matches. Add Brown, its a great school and one more match. Maybe WUSTL as a match/safety + you might get merit aid. IF you really really need another "safety match", perhaps add Emory (you might get merit money there too)

My feeling: you'll probably get into one of your "reaches" and most of your "not as much reaches"

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit

Thank you for all the messages, and sorry about the athlete thing. I was trying to sugarcoat my feelings in the post above. See, one of the guys who got in is one of my great friends, and I was torn between feeling great for him and pitying myself (which, of course, is ridiculous).

Anyways, Redimc, nice suggestions. My grades are in a bit of trouble because my courseload is hard, so I might not be ranked first at the end of the semester (as in, I hope and think I will be in the top 3). My essays are coming along, as stated in the beginning, and fun is almost unthinkable with all the work, but I will make up for it (second semester).

Slipper 2002, once again, great tips. I am not applying to Georgetown and WUSTL because some of my best friends are applying there, so I don't want to reduce their chances in any way. Northwestern is high on my list, and Brown is great (though I am not sure if my parents will cough up all that money for Brown...I'm all for it). Brown still has a very small percentage admitted, but I might still go for it.

Thanks for the encouragement guys...if you have any questions (not any "What are my Chances" questions) then feel free to post.

By Jwtullis (Jwtullis) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Like they said, I definitely would not retake Writing with a 770. It would SERIOUSLY be a waste of your time and money, and would not benefit you for your effort.

I also approve of the idea of going solely with the several reaches and match-type schools. I go to Rice and know a girl who had similar scores as you and she was admitted to all of the schools to which she applied, most on par with those you are looking at. She is also Asian. That said, you'll get into most, if not all, of the schools you apply to as well, as long as your essay is relatively good. Just make sure you wouldn't mind having to go to the match-range schools, just in case. Good luck.

By Burutzagiuribe (Burutzagiuribe) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:58 pm: Edit

why won't your parents cough up money for brown? it's no TTT, and i know dozens of kids who came here over stanford/yale/princeton and a few harvards...

By John_Updike (John_Updike) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 11:11 pm: Edit

I completely agree, but then again, my parents don't. Ultimately, this process has to be a compromise between both sides, and my parents find it fit to give money only for "close to home" schools or HYPS...I will apply to Brown anyways, and hopefully, if the decision does come down to my choosing between schools, I will confront my parents more desperately on the matter.

Jwtullis, first of all, congratulations on getting into Rice. I will be applying there early, and seriously hope I get in. In any case, I have already paid for the SAT II and the testing date is on Saturday...I might just jump in for the heck of it. Also, was your Asian friend well balanced in ECs and does she have good essays? I am not worried about scores hindering my chances...my main worry is the essays.

By Achat (Achat) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 04:16 pm: Edit

Great attitude John_Updike!

By Vq35dett (Vq35dett) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit

Wow dude those are really nice stats.