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I got waitlisted by MIT. This person from my school, MR X, was also waitlisted. The problem is, he was already accepted ed to Stanford (but he's an ••••••• so he never withrew any applications) and he refuses to withdraw from the waitlist at MIT. He's an arrogant little shmuck and 'just wants to see if [he] can get in.'

His being on the waitlist could stop me from getting admitted, even though i REALLY want to go and he LEGALLY cannot! Should I call MIT and tell 'em? I've already tried talking him out of it but he's just such a S.O.B.

To further complicate things, I really can't be sure if he got in to Stanford cause he's a conceited little prick who tends to lie and exagerate about his grades. And he can't bring the admit letter in cause his 'parents don't wanna be seen as arogant.' Of course, he won't admit that he got rejected now after telling the whole school.

So should I call MIT and tell them? But then that could seem like I'm being underhanded and sly, trying to get other ppl screwed, ESPECIALLY if it turns out that he didn't get accepted to Stanford.
Should I see my guidance counselor? I really don't think she can do anything about it.

ARGHHH!!!

By Nymom (Nymom) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 08:39 am: Edit

This is definitely a job for your GC. However, you may be right that he's lying about Stanford, because your GC should know if he was accepted ED (despite what you read here, GCs get a copy of the admit/reject letter; the school should also have gotten a copy of the MIT waitlist letter), and should have made sure that he withdrew the MIT application.

By Sar (Sar) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 10:53 am: Edit

If our schools get these letters, why don't they ever tell us that? Are they afraid their offices will be swamped with teary-eyed kids?

Then... why is my school asking us for our college admit/reject info? Just keeping up the charade?

By Breeze (Breeze) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 11:31 am: Edit

Nymom, I don't think schools are privy to knowing what schools their kids get into and don't get into. Maybe it varies from school to school though.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Sar & Breeze: my kids' school definitely gets copied on admit/reject letters, but a few weeks after the students receive their letters, so that is probably why they ask for your info. The GC at my kids' school frequently gets verbal admit info a few days before the students, but they are not permitted to tell the students. I don't know why your schools are different; perhaps they are very large & the guidance dept just doesn't have time for this.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Personally, I don't believe it's any of the GC's business--particularly when many of them couldn't care less and do next to nothing to help their kids get admitted. Letters of awards would probably fall under the same category, unless they are presented at awards banquet or assembly.

By Mitacceptee (Mitacceptee) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:14 pm: Edit

At our school, our GC doesn't recieve any notice back from the colleges. Our GCs constantly tell me to tell them of any information I may have recieved from the schools that I applied to, whether it was a rejection, waitlist, or acceptance.

By Chrisy (Chrisy) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:47 pm: Edit

You should definitely tell your guidance counselor. If Mr.X really got into Stanford, She could call MIT to tell them. From what you wrote, it seems to me that he's lying and didn't get into Stanford. Don't worry, colleges don't have quotas, and the acceptance rate from the waitlist at MIT is 78%.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 02:51 pm: Edit

AutoD: please don't run down all GCs. Ours are terrific & go out of their way to make sure each student is placed appropriately. And yes, it is the GCs business if a student fails to withdraw applications after an ED acceptance: dishonesty in this area hurts all future applicants from the school!

By Brd (Brd) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 03:05 pm: Edit

"And yes, it is the GCs business if a student fails to withdraw applications after an ED acceptance: dishonesty in this area hurts all future applicants from the school!"

That conclusion may be true, and that may be unfortunate, but that doesn't make it their business. You don't magically get or deserve control or influence over something just because it might not be to your benefit.

By Chrisy (Chrisy) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 03:25 pm: Edit

If Stanford and MIT found out, they can BOTH retrieve their offer. And I do believe that it is the guidance counselor's business, they are paid to help you get into the best school possible. And you deserve it! Telling guidance is the best solution. Calling MIT yourself will only make you look bad (if Mr.X didn't get into Stanford and MIT calls Stan. it will make you look REALLY BAD), but sitting and praying to God will also be useless.

By Dream5 (Dream5) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Yeah. Tell the admissions office at MIT annonimously about the situation. Then, MIT will call Stanford, and if it's true that he got into Stanford, he is going to local community college.

If that's not true, then they will just ignore that letter and ... that's it.

By Chrisy (Chrisy) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Unless there are other MIT waitlists at your school other than you and Mr. X, sending an anonymous letter will be quite obvious. From what I heard, last year, 135 out of 165 people were taken off the waitlist. Although it varies, the fluctuations are not great. Check out Princeton Review's 345 Best Colleges, schools with great fluctuations will not reveal their precentage taken off from the waitlist. But MIT's are definitely there and they have one of the highest percentage.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Brd: I think you misunderstood what I said: failing to withdraw applications after an ED acceptance hurts future applicants from the high school. Colleges are loathe to accept candidates from a high school from which a past applicant reneged on an ED commitment.

By Burgmuller (Burgmuller) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Chrisy, that's not true. Last year, MIT took the highest number of applicants from the waiting list in their history. But in previous years, they had taken 17, 32 students out of 500-600 waitlisted applicants. MIT does fluctuate on the number of admitted students from the waitlist.

Therefore, chances of getting off the waitlist at MIT IS very slim.

By Brd (Brd) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 05:50 pm: Edit

Nymom: No, I understood exactly what you said. And I understand why you might find the situation unfortunate. But that does not change the fact that what Universities a student applies to, gets accepted to, or rejected from, is no business of a High School counselor's, unless the student or student's family wants it to be.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Sorry, I disagree. The guidance dept at my kids' school puts tremendous effort into getting kids into their first choice school: this includes writing a "counselor's rec" for the student, putting together a great packet (teacher's recs, supplementary materials, etc,), and in general intervening as much as possible w/the admissions office(phone calls, etc) to get a favorable result. Students who don't keep their part of the ED bargain to the detriment of other students at the high school do so at their own risk and certainly shouldn't expect their GC to stay out of it.

By Sar (Sar) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Erm... I go to a public high school with a graduating class of about 1,000. There are 6 GCs, 6 SSR writers (who are sometimes also GCs if there isn't someone else to do the job), 4 grade advisors, and 3 college advisors. And 5 deans. And 9 safety officers to cover 10 floors that take about 1 minute to stroll through from end to end. I'm sure I'm not cared for as much as your kids are, NYmom. In my case, I'm sure Brd is right--it is not the GC's business if my parents and I don't want it to be, because that lets them concentrate on those who do request their help.

My college advisors make phone calls pretty much only if a student is absolutely stuck with nowhere to go--which already makes them plenty busy, what with having to start the junior class on their business too. Students have to miss classes and take numbers if they want to see their advisors.

My parents are aloof cuz they don't understand much English, and I don't have enough free time during the day to really talk to anyone and they all go home as soon as they can cuz they're not paid much anyway...

Feels lonely sometimes.

But anyway, I bet it *does* depend on the school.

By Wadad (Wadad) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 07:13 pm: Edit

As I recall the guidance counsellor, the applicant, and the applicant's parents all sign a quasi-contract promissing to withdraw all other applications if accepted ED. Since the guidance counsellor's signature's on paper, it certainly seems to be his/her business if the agreement is not lived up to.

By Unicorn (Unicorn) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 05:41 am: Edit

thanks a lot guys

i shall speak to my GC

and where do u get all the info abt how many ppl get off MITs waitlist?

By Nsk (Nsk) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 09:25 am: Edit

Hey Unicorn, send MIT and Stanford an anonymous email; explain the situation and I am sure they will withdraw his application if what he says is true.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 03:29 pm: Edit

Nymom: I'm sorry, I posted in a hurry after a quick read through, instead of waiting until I could explain myself more clearly. I think it's great if you've got fabulous GC's. Rejoice, for your counselors are the exception, not the rule. Some that I've met personally, and when acting on behalf of my nieces, nephews, and my own children are worse than useless. My daughter has a good counselor at her regional academy, but the local one leaves a lot to be desired--never has the necessary forms, and doesn't make any attempt to obtain them even after a request. Unicorn has a unique situation, if he doubts the truthfullness of the "schmuck" he can't very well notify any institution of the other's unethical behavior, without looking petty or manipulative. Even if he did, there is no guaratee that he'll get in off of the waitlist. Yes, he can talk to his GC, who can--because of his status and position with it's contractual confidentiality clause--verify the true admission status, and then discuss the options with the student and parents. Acting individually in today's society if it upset the other's applecart, could result in personal retaliation--and there are things more important than admission to your first choice college--like your personal health and well-being. I question whether on a year's limited acquaintance, our local counselor would even have a clue what an "appropriate" placement would be. The majority of counselors I've met encourage the student to take the safe route. Our counselor has made no effort to get my daughter off of waitlists, just recommended attending another college and then transferring at the semester or after a year. Financial aid is a major consideration for us, so this policy could leave my daughter in a school she doesn't really want to attend and in no position to negotiate for a good FA package. Recommending any college without any regard for whether the family can afford to send, or the student can afford to pay is irresponsible, not helpful.

By Nymom (Nymom) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 06:58 pm: Edit

AutoD: I've followed your daughters's posts with some interest. I know that she is trying to get off the waitlists at two schools, but has she considered writing to some of the schools that rejected her? If, as you believe, some of her rejections were due to "Tufts" syndrome, perhaps some of these schools would be responsive to an "appeal." She could write a letter saying she was disappointed that she was rejected, restate her interest in the school (be specific), restate her qualifications (bragging is acceptable!), and ask for "reconsideration." If she was indeed rejected because the school questioned the legitimacy of her interest, they may prefer to admit her rather than to take a lesser qualified candidate off the waitlist.

By Chrisy (Chrisy) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 10:55 am: Edit

The percentage of students taken off the waitlist does vary, and last year's was really high because they had housing problems and couldn't accept many students from the regular decision round. Although they say that they don't rank the waitlist, they do consider some before others. Say for example, that many English majors turned down their offer, then the admissions officers would consider the English majors first. Good Luck.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 01:35 am: Edit

Nymom: Thanks for the advice. I'm sorry I'm so slow responding, but I lost track of this thread. I usually start in Parent's Forum and sometimes get no further, although DD showing me the "New Messages" Feature has helped immensely. I hadn't realized that it would function within the category, since it wouldn't work from my exterior frame--I thought it was a Dell incompatibility glitch. Anyway, we didn't approach any of the "reject" colleges, she accepted Truman State's full ride+ as a NMF, but likely will defer. She wants to gap a year for studying and volunteering in Greece (teaching English to the village children, visiting the preschool she once attended, and hopes to participate on an archeological dig and on Zachynthos' sea turtle patrol), as well as visiting her grandmother, uncle, aunts, and her first cousin, who is 14. She wants to learn the secrets of her grandmother's traditional woodburning stone oven baked bread, pressing olives into oil, and tramping the grapes for the year's vintage of home brewed wine. She plans to visit her uncle at the Greek equivalent of the Dept. of Agriculture as well. She hasn't been in ten years, so they are all looking forward to it. As her grandmother is quite elderly, if she doesn't go before starting college and law school, she likely wouldn't see her again in life. Tickets for the 2004 Athens Olympics are near the top of her wish list.
As she loves classical art and Italian, she will probably sail across to Italy, and join her Italian teacher and selected students for his six weeks tour of Italy and culture, which was postponed from this year. I know she wants to visit in the home of our former exchange student in Pisa, too. Personally, I have friends I'd like to look up in Belgium from my exchange days, and I'd love to spend a few days wandering through Paris, but my daughter is an Anglophile, not a Francophile. If she gets her way, which she's pretty good at, there will be a lay over in London one direction or the other. She will take a couple of classes at CC this summer prior to going to finish up her AA, and will transfer if admitted to one of her East Coast schools--none of which seem to be participating in National Merit--or only a pittance--if she can get a decent FA package.