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My school doesn't offer too many extracurricular activities that I'm interested in. Can you give me some ideas of what else I can get into that will still look good on my college resumé? Is there a good number of activites I should participate in?

By Roger (Roger) on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 09:37 pm: Edit

Hi, Sarah. Instead of being frustrated by the lack of appealing ECs at your high school, think of this as an opportunity to do something a bit different. Here are a couple of thoughts:

Can you start an extracurricular activity at your HS that doesn't exist? This would give you some valuable experience in organizing and working with others, in addition to the satisfaction of leaving something lasting behind when you move on to college.

Many, many groups need volunteer help: churches, food banks, homeless shelters, groups that help handicapped kids or adults, Special Olympics, etc. You'll do some good, and get a chance to meet new people and work with adults.

Internships and jobs are great ECs, too. While flipping burgers can be one way to demonstrate reliability and responsibility, if you can find a job in an area of interest, you will enjoy it a lot more. You may have to start off as an unpaid intern, but if you demonstrate your usefulness you may be able to convert to a paid employee. I have known kids who did things like work in a science lab at a college, help at an advertising agency, do web design, even work as a radio announcer.

I don't suggest you do these things to pad your resume for college apps, BUT, any of these is likely to be more interesting to college admissions committees than three years of French Club at your HS. Good luck!

By Andrew on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 04:24 pm: Edit

I was wondering if you could tell me if this is a "strong" junior year schedule by Ivy and comparable standards.

AP Biology
AP Chemistry
AP Calculus BC
AP US History
Honors English (preps us for AP exam)
Physics (no honors offered)
Spanish 3 (honors offered)
Independant Science Project
Free Period

I am the only junior in Calc BC and AP Chem. No one else in my class is even taking 4 AP's. The next toughest schedule in my class is:

AP US History
AP European History
AP Spanish
Pre-Calc Honors
English Honors
+ Other Non AP/Honors Classes

or

AP US History
AP Latin
AP French
Honors Pre-Calc
English Honors
+ Other Non AP/Honors Classes

Am I in OK shape? Do I have too many sciences and not enough humanities? Should I drop my free period and take some class? The only classes offered that period are electives (Debate, Java Programming, Art, etc).

By Gabe on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 06:07 pm: Edit

How much does class rank matter? Right now I'm
30/290. If I wait to apply regular decision I'm pretty sure that with all the weighted classes I'm taking I can move up to around 25/290. Would it be to my advantage to apply regular decision? How much does being in the top 10% matter?

By Dave Berry on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 07:29 am: Edit

Addressing Andrew's question aout schedules:

Andrew, you need to fill in that free period, by all means. Ivy admits in most cases have NO free periods on their records. Pick an elective that may relate to your proposed major (if you have one already) or select one that will enhance your EC profile (debate?). Make a sensible choice, but ditch that free time. It will come back to bite you.

Your balance is fine. I assume that your senior schedule will include more APs, which--if you get top grades and do well in the exams--will put you in the driver's seat at application time. For a junior, you're looking good. Keep up the good work but--please--no free periods, if you can help it. Your goal: The tougest schedule your school can offer.

I understand that my admonition here may strike some of you as being harsh, but I have to point to the academic histories of many of my student clients (and my own two children [now in their 20s]) whose high school records included no free periods. As far as I can tell, all were able to eat lunch and maintain active in-school ECs. If Andrew is going to use his free period for an in-school EC, then fine, but he didn't specifically say that. He implied free time.

His desire is to be admitted to an elite or Ivy League school. For all of you who may not be familiar with what it takes these days to "go Ivy," read the book "Getting In" by Bill Paul. It's the story of Princeton admissions as it was three or four years ago. Check the resumes of some typical Princeton admits listed there. See my review of the book here.

You may want to shoot the messenger here (me!), which is fine. However, if you don't have the year-to-year experience dealing with the Ivy/elite college aspirations and consequent disappointments of high schoolers across America and from many foreign countries as I do, then you may want to do some reality reseach to verify what it takes these days to get into the HYPSM-type schools.

By Dave Berry on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 07:32 am: Edit

Now, to Gabe's question about class rank:

Gabe, if you have the other profile factors that make an ED/EA application the right choice for you, then I say go early rather than wait for a "possible" improvement of a couple of places. That's a big "if." You have to be competitive with your first-choice's early-admit profile plus your essays have to be top-notch.

You're virtually top-10-percent right now and that's the traditional "decile of excellence" for most schools, although in today's panic market, top-five percent is becoming more and more common. Don't let that scare you, though. If you've got the right match between stats and school, I say go early.

By Ramona on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 09:11 am: Edit

To Dave, your admonition against free periods. You seem to have anticipated adverse reaction to your advice!! My child is at a school with nine periods a day, and she has one free every day. I don't think the fact she took free periods will even show up on her records -- it will just say which classes taken, and she's taking 6 "core" academic classes, plus electives. If the school record sent to colleges won't even reflect free periods (and she has fewer than anyone else in her class), is it still such a downside?

By Dave Berry on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 09:14 pm: Edit

I've been beaten up several times on this topic before, Ramona. That's why I always caveat my response. The best defense is a good offense. :-)

Your daughter has nothing to be concerned about. Any admissions officer would look at her schedule and see someone who is trying to make the most out what she has available.

Again, as I said above, the pressure mounts from year to year in the elite college realm. With acceptance rates falling, I think it's important to tell it like it is. Some seniors have lightweight schedules and then wonder why they don't get accepted to the schools of their choice. Apparently, your daughter's schedule should serve her well. Best wishes to her on her college quest.

By Ramona on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 09:49 am: Edit

I see what you're saying. On the class rank question (Gabe's) above -- his question raised a point I've often wondered about. My kid (a junior) is currently in the top 5%, unweighted. This is my estimate (it's a small school), since the school doesn't rank. Also, she's probably taking the hardest load of anyone, only one or two others take a similarly challenging courseload. What rank matters to colleges, weighted or unweighted? I see a lot of kids who are in the top few percent weighted at public schools, but do the top colleges really allocate extra points for taking AP/honors classes, don't they expect everyone to do this? Is it true that the colleges will un-weight and re-calculate GPA? Or do they use weighted rank to pump up their percent of students who were in the top 10% of their HS class? Hope this makes some sense!

By Dave Berry on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 04:34 pm: Edit

As with most topics, the answer to your questions is "It depends." However, for the purposes of general reason, let me answer this way:

Colleges look at both GPAs, but generally key on the weighted ones, assuming that the weighting is a result of true AP courses. Some high schools weight non-true-AP courses, which can cause confusion. Admissions offices have the high schools' profiles on hand, so they're aware of what weighting practices are taking place.

Top colleges do expect their applicants to take the most challenging courses available, as your daughter has done. I have worked with students whose schools did not provide true AP courses, yet these same students gained admission to Ivy League schools. Last year, one student of mine had to take the entire second semester of his senior year at a local university becuase he had exhausted his high school's toughest classes. He made it into Yale after being deferred from ED. That was very satisfying for me (and him!).

I can't say with sweeping certainty if colleges recalculate GPAs, but I'm sure they know that a 3.9 at one school isn't as noteworthy as a 3.6 at another. That's what those school profiles do; they provide some degree of benchmarking.

There is probably some some sleight-of-hand number jumbling going on too. That's the unsavory part of the U.S. News rankings fallout.

Bottom line for Ramona's daughter: She's looking good. Now all she has to do is apply for our IGAP challenge and she'll maximize her admission chances. Thanks for letting me slip in that shameless promotional message. :-)

By Roger (Roger) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Reweighting or unweighting class ranking is more or less impossible for a college admissions office, Ramona - it would require a knowledge of every other student's transcript details, followed by a mass recomputaton of rankings. If the student is listed as 27 out of 265, that is the rank they will have to look at - regardless of how the school computed it. That isn't to say they couldn't apply a subjective fudge factor if they felt that a student's rank had been significantly affected by the presence or absence of weighted grades. Plus, as Dave notes, they will also develop a feel for the quality of student at various schools and have a reasonable understanding of what it takes to earn a 3.7 at a particular school.

If your school provides NO ranking information, it may be a moot point anyway. The colleges will simply infer something from the GPA, the courses taken, and the general profile of the school.

Colleges claim to be skeptical of unweighted rankings when they are achieved by students who have avoided AP and honors courses. The admissions director of our flagship state school tells the story of rejecting a 4.0 valedictorian applicant who had achieved this with easy courses; I'm a bit skeptical, since this college isn't extremely selective. The point he was making, though, was that they DO look at the level of courses taken, even at a state school.

Do any high schools furnish colleges with both weighted and unweighted rankings? I've never seen it, but it wouldn't be difficult to do. I suspect that they don't do that to avoid controversy and confusion. ("And now we'll hear from the unweighted valedictorian and the weighted saludatorian...")

By David Hawsey on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 09:13 am: Edit

Ramona: There are several issues built into your question, and a few I'll add to give you an idea of what we actually do with transcripts.

1. Weighted or Unweighted?

Why weight a GPA? Because it shows the student's added emphasis on higher-level courses, and if the student did very well, the GPA would exceed the unweighted GPA, and in many circumstances, may even exceed an "A" - a 4.25 on a 4.0 scale, for example. But what if the student ends up only getting a C in three AP courses? If a "C" in a normal biology course is worth a 2.0 on a 4.0 scale, a "C" in AP Biology might be a 2.5 or even a 3.0 -- the equivalent of a "B". Is this fair? If you ask the student, they'll probably say, "Yes!"

High schools differ in their policies as to weighting grades. Many do it because they are focused on ranking students against each other. Indeed, some spend inordinate amounts of time ranking and rating among hundreds of high school seniors. To what end? Is the ranking system fair if the top 10% reflects both students with AP courses, and those without? Not in many people's view. Those who rank students and do not count weighted grades may view their system as being statistically “pure”, and the reasons students take AP courses is not to inflate grades, but to strive for advanced placement in the first year of college. This is more in line with the reason AP classes were designed. And read on: the real story is not about who is ranked #1 or # 25.

2. What will Colleges Do With My GPA?

Colleges may either (a) “unweight” a GPA, (b) re-weight an unranked GPA to honor the extra work a student put into their studies, or (c) do nothing at all, because they are looking at something entirely different. Let’s take a peek inside an application reading session:

I’m looking at your transcript. First, I want to make sure you have the “standard” academic units each high school should offer, such as four units in English, four in social studies/history, 2 each in mathematics, biology/chemistry/physics, etc. If you have the requisite college-prep curriculum covered, you have passed my first test. Then, I look at the “level” of difficulty of each class. Here is where the AP, honors or other “advanced” designations come into play. Some colleges will use the advanced coursework to admit a student over ones without. Others will look solely at the major the student is considering, and look into the grades related to that major. If you took all AP science classes and did very well, and want to major in pre-med, this makes sense. If the rest of the transcript is OK, you have passed another test. Now, what do you think the relevance of all of this might be?

3. What Do You Do With All Of This, Anyway?

Well, what did you take AP classes for, anyway? To get “ahead”? To get a better scholarship? To get out of taking certain freshmen classes by getting a score of 4 or 5 on the AP tests? Well, think about this. There are over 3,300 colleges and universities in the country. We all have different systems for analyzing and using transcript information. While there is some standardization, we still have our own ways of doing things. And think how relevant “ranking” students must be to us (colleges). With over 80,000 high school districts in the United States, many of us really don’t care who is number #1 in a certain high school in California, versus number #1 in a school in rural Maine. Your schools use different systems, too! We’re not about to fiddle with standardizing 80,000 different ways of using AP classes, weighted GPAs and such! Instead, consider calling the admissions office of the colleges you are considering. Ask how they treat the GPA weighted-vs-unweighted issue. Ask specifically if an AP or Honors course earns any more scholarship dollars in the overall financial aid model. And most important: Ask if specific AP classes guarantee you will get out of taking equally-specific first-year courses in college. Chances are, they do not count for what you think they do. That’s a decision the faculty make, not the admissions office, and the decision depends upon how the first year curriculum is set up. That’s another phone call you get to make, and is a great reason to schedule a campus visit.

Finally, I will say that it is quite easy for colleges to weight – or “unweight” – GPAs. Takes just a few minutes, actually! Once done, I’ll look at a variety of other things, and when I’ve made my decision to accept you, I may or may not use the weighted or unweighted GPA to decide on an academic scholarship! How will you know? 95% of colleges are not going to tell you. But you still need to ask!

HUGE TIP: Find friends who are current students at the colleges you are considering. Ask how the admissions and financial aid offices treated their AP courses, class rank and weighted or unweighted grades. If the students kept their financial aid brochure from last year, for example, you can review what the students presented in their application and specifically in the transcripts, and check this against the stated admission and general scholarship criteria. Not much changes from year-to-year in terms of admissions models and scholarships at the top schools, so a year or two difference won’t hurt as you research this.

Bottom line: you take the AP and honors-level classes to learn, and to prepare for colleges. We use them to see if you are ready for college at the general and departmental level. Any other use is entirely specific to the individual college, and you’ll have to ask in order to get an answer!

By sayu on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 10:56 pm: Edit

Is the high curriculum very important?
I was in a special English class(I'm an international student), and we didn't have a lot of math or physics classes. Would that definitely affect my chances?

By Krazee on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 09:29 am: Edit

Sayu, advanced courses are always better, but as long as you took the most challenging courses available you should be OK. Colleges make an effort not to penalize students because their high school has limited offerings. At the same time, of course, you will have to demonstrate strong achievement with what you were able to take.

By Molly on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 09:33 pm: Edit

Krazee- you say that schools look at what your high school offers you. My sister, who was first in her class, took the most advanced classes she could but was not accepted by her top choice. Her counselor suggested she call the university and ask a few questions and see if there was any chance they could look her over again. The next day my mom called and they told her that my sister just simply did not have enough advanced classes. My mom told them that she took all she could and they basically said that "It wasn't their problem"
This really worries me because I am a sophomore in high school and I am already planning what I may want to do and where I want to go. I dont know what to do about not having the chance to take the advanced courses that colleges are looking for. any advice?

By Roger (Roger) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Molly, most schools wouldn't make a comment like your mom received. If your sister took the most challenging classes available, even the top schools should have given her a fair review based on her accomplishments. Even valedictorians get rejected at top schools, though - it's just a fact of life that some schools reject most of their applicants, and most of the rejected kids are well qualified academically. It's often impossible to offer a single reason why one applicant got rejected while another got in.

If you are concerned, you could always take a class or two at a local college if you have an appropriate school nearby. This would demonstrate your desire to take more advanced classes as well as your ability to work at the college level. Or, you can focus on excelling in the classes that are available and devoting serious time to an extracurricular (perhaps something in the community rather than a club at the HS) that really motivates you. Often, a single outstanding extracurricular accomplishment can be te factor that gives one applicant a boost over others with similar grades and scores.

When application time rolls around, be sure your counselor notes that you took the most demanding schedule offered on the recommendation forms. Good luck!

By Dadster on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 10:52 am: Edit

Wow, Molly, sounds like that school really sets a new standard for arrogant admissions staff. Or, it could have just been a poorly trained low-level person in the office. Often, the phones in college offices are answered by work-study undergrads or brand-new grads that are willing to work cheaply. They should know when to transfer an inquiry to someone of greater authority, but sometimes they may try to handle stuff they shouldn't.

By R Storm (Anonrs) on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 03:42 am: Edit

I'm particularly interested in David H's response as someone in admissions to this post. But others, please chime in!

My oldest is a junior in college; he applied to six schools and was admitted to all. He did not apply to any ivies (no interest in his or our part; for many years Stanford was on his list -- he would have been 4th generation there (but not straight-line legacy), but ultimately it didn't feel right to him -- small LA, nothing over 1600, bubbled to the surface as the right environment and he chose to not even apply to Stanford) In our collected family opinion not only did he apply to very good schools but schools that were personal matches for a variety of reasons for him (I actually forced him to broaden his horizons beyond Stanford -- his original intention was to have Stanford as the only egg in his basket and I thought he should at least investigate the LA scene). Final schools on his app list: Univ Wash Honors Program, Kenyon, Grinnell, Lawrence Univ., Whitman and Pomona. As said earlier, admitted to all -- with merit scholarship offers from all except Pomona, which doesn't do much merit-wise. (he was offered more merit money than anyone else in his graduating class, including jocks). He did NOT take the most rigorous courses available to him because of his desire to be in band all four years; in fact he chose Band over AP Chem with our full blessings.

- 4 years Honor LA
- 3 years Math at hs (Calculus in Jr yr; absolutely no interest in math beyond this)
- 3 years Social studies
- 2 years *Science (Chem, Honors Physics)
- 4 years German
- 4 years Band (percussion)/Music (3 years of multiple classes -- two periods per day, which included two years alternating between Orchestra (violin)/accompany percussionist for Jazz Choir)
- 4 years religion (Catholic hs, required. Jr and sr years, he was able to take semester classes like Philosophy and Ethics).

Re Science, he did two things at my suggestion to strengthen this area 1) an intensive 3-week Johns Hopkins CTY Biology course one summer and 2) a summer qtr of Chem at a local university. (Re this chem qtr, he explained that he took it to show that he was capable and that he made a conscious choice to stay in Band and not take AP Chem).

GPA, 3.8+; SAT I 1520; SAT IIs 670(?) to 800s. School does not offer AP classes except for Chem and Spanish, but he did take four AP exams, scoring 4s/5s and one 3. Good ECs -- mostly music/performance arts related; three years of solid community service in one area. Very good essays for common apps and supplementals.

A teacher, who I'm sure provided a dynamite rec, says the reason that son was admitted to all and offered (tempted a better word?) the merit money was that son was obviously a good student -- but not a grade grubber; that he was quirky: very good in math and science but demonstrably more interested in humanities; he had a demonstrated life outside of school; that he would be an asset to any school because they figured that he would contribute to the general atmosphere of the school. (The hs GC was amazed at his scholarships offers, said he must been a great interviewee -- son really didn't interact much with GC at school during his four years, he knew son was a good student but probably saw him as rather drab; also no interview at Pomona or UW Honors Program, though encouraged to do both by the schools. The four interviews he did do lasted from 1 1/4 - 2 hours, not including time spent with me afterwards).

It would have been interesting to see the results of a Stanford app. Way back in his soph year when we knew that band would conflict with a major class -- we thought it would be German at that time -- I actually called the Stanford admissions office and spoke to someone who told me that "not having a 3rd or 4th year of German or any one class would not be the determining factor in admission to Stanford; that what they put out as the ideal applicant's course selection was a general guideline, that they saw too many kids trying to fit 'the mold' of what they (the student) thought would be the perfect applicant; that while they want to see a rigorous course load that they would much rather see a student follow his heart." Who knows if they would have honored this sentiment, but it certainly was an eye-opener for us. We didn't look back from there. Yes, we played the numbers game re SAT/ACT scores and yes, a 4.0 is great -- but in our minds, a 3.8 and a life is better.

David, your summary above of how applications are evaluated at your school, esp the initial read, does not seem to include applicant heart and individualism. Yet, I'm sure it must play some sort of role in your admissions decisions. Obviously, you didn't have an opportunity to read my son's Common Application and essays (primary and supplementary)and recs or interview with him, but from what I've told you what would you speculate made him attractive to these schools? I'm asking for your response because while I know the "basic rules and marketing strategies" and I encouraged my oldest and I am now in the process of encouraging my youngest to be "a good player," (up to a degree), I think this whole college process has gotten totally out of whack; I think it's more important for a student to be true to himself.

By collegemom on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 04:21 pm: Edit

anonrs: (a parenthetical comment) What a pleasure to know that there are other parents out there who have given their blessing to their kids to opt-out of an advanced course so that music could be continued for all four years. My older son kept running into this problem, esp. in his last two years of h.s., and even though his GC couldn't understand why he would do it, he did the same kind of thing your son did. In my opinion, just as important as racking up the longest possible list of advance coursework is sticking with that important "other" component of what makes you who you are as a person and future applicant. In one of his essays he was able to explain why he did what he did, and it paid off in his acceptances (and in the positive feed back from admissions offices about his essay).

By Dadster on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Your post is a refreshing break from the "elite insanity" that characterizes so much college admissions discussion, R Storm. It's great to see a student (and family!) comfortable with taking the academic path that is best for the student, not for some sort of "ideal elite preparation package".

I think that most smaller selective colleges (elites, liberal arts schools, etc.) DO take into account "heart and individualism" - but it's still chancy. It may depend on the mood of the readers to some degree, not to mention the competition. Perhaps there's a kid who excelled in music who also has a 4.0, took every AP class, and won a major science award. If a kid with slightly less sterling qualifications comes along in the same review session, perhaps the latter one will get dumped. On the other hand, the situation might be quite different if the competition du jour is mostly boring grinds with high GPAs.

It's also important for the student who is counting less on impeccable academics and more on diverse accomplishments to use the application and essays to effectively communicate what makes him a unique individual. A kid could be very interesting and multifaceted, but a boring essay might well torpedo the effort.

I think the teacher's assessment was most likely quite accurate. Congrats to your son, I'm sure he'll do a great job in college.

By R Storm (Anonrs) on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Collegemom,I'm happy that your son's decision to go against the flow was likewise recognized and rewarded. Music and other Fine Arts definitely do not get the respect and appreciation that they deserve in the American school system. Band, in particular, is truly a major generator of school spirit. And think about all the time Band students contribute to their school: football games, basketballl games, fundraisng events, community ambassadors via community concerts, festivals, and competition, etc. Besides indicating that he had made a conscious choice to stay in Band, our older son made two other things re music clear in all his college apps and interviews: 1) he was not intending to major or minor in music BUT 2) music was nevertheless very important in his life and that he would definitely continue his formal particpation at college. He has continued his participation -- is your son still playing in college?

One of the supplemental CA essays asked the applicant to "write about the class/grade that you were proudest of" or something along that line. Son wrote about Band. Admitted it was an easy A, good attendance (class, games, other school events & performances) basically guaranteed the grade -- but the basis of his essay was that he was proud to have so MANY of them because it was a very rare thing at his school to do four years of Band. Since there is a full year of religion required each year at our school, elective opportunities are not as available as in many public schools -- esp Jr year with the national requirement of US History thrown in. The GCs at our school push really hard for the kids to drop music (choir is in the same boat) after sophomore year -- so the Concert / Marching Band really suffers because they do not have the continuing leadership provided by returning Jrs and Srs; it's like starting over each year!

Our younger son (hs soph), also a musician, is traveling a similar road now. He had to get his schedule fixed at the beginning of the year -- the GCs just don't seem to understand that scheduling conflicts are NOT resolved by eliminating Band from my boys' schedules. Our family is a very squeaky wheel when it comes to this; you'd think they would've learned by now.

By R Storm (Anonrs) on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 11:08 pm: Edit

Dadster, older son is now a junior in college. To him, each year has been better than the last; he's very happy with his college choice. He's spending this year abroad actually reading Philosphy in German. He's still not a 4.0; hovers around 3.8 but is deeply involved in selected activities on campus, including music (performance and private lessons). He expects to graduate with Honors in Philosophy in '03; his advisor feels that, if he wants it, that he's got an excellent shot at a top grad school. He's "a silent waters run deep" kind of guy; much more multi-dimensional than first appearances might lead you to believe.

He did have some great essays. His sr Honors LA teacher encouraged him to expand one essay into a short story (not done, perhaps he'll return to it some day). But, I actually DO plead guilty to being part of the hype -- it just wasn't directed at the ivy league; but it WAS full barrels ahead to my son's match schools. (Except for his safety, the UW (too big), all his schools felt like matches. None, including where he's at now were perfect matches, I don't think there is such a thing as a 100% match, and he definitely had a personal ranking but they were all well-researched with him in mind and he would've done well at any of them). I think Dave might actually hire me if he got a look at the package that my son put together based in no small part on all the reading and research that I began when he was in junior high. I'm not surprised at my son's admissions but we had an out and out goal of securing some merit money to go along with admissions (which was the only way that we could afford a private LA college)and I'm sure personal marketing had a great deal to with his success there, esp knowing that his choices might raise some eyebrows (we wanted them raised in the right way).

By Dadster on Tuesday, January 01, 2002 - 11:54 am: Edit

Great job of planning ahead, RS! Your kids are lucky to have such a diligent parent. Have you considered volunteering at your HS guidance office? Our HS tried parent volunteers, but the paid guidance counselors resented them and the program never got off the ground.

By R Storm (Anonrs) on Tuesday, January 01, 2002 - 05:39 pm: Edit

The GC office does use parent volunteers but only to sort / shelve / file incoming college viewbooks and scholarship information. I don't think that they would (happily) formally recognize anyone else disseminating college guidance info -- but I'm not especially shy about speaking up and throwing things out for consideration and have been doing so for 5-6 years; as such, I do have some advance thinking students and parents that do seek me out. Whenever I meet a junior student and/or parent, I always tell them to do themselves a BIG favor and get their ALL their standardized testing done in Jr year; including 4-5 SAT IIs (using score choice), just in case a student ends up deciding to apply to a college that requires them ... of course, good scores should get released even if not required. :>) If students or parents of any grade have the time and interest, I'm always ready to spout more . . .

We recently had a soph parent / student meeting to discuss the PLAN test led by one of the GCs. There was one parent whose daughter freezes up with testing and was very concerned about SATs -- GCs sole advice was to not worry, just have her practice out of the book and/or with CD. When I threw out that it was perfectly acceptable and perhaps a better plan for the daughter to get her feet wet and take the mystery out of the SAT by actually taking a real test with real parameters in place this sophomore year, GC immdiately hemmed and hawed and allowed, "well, yes; that was an option, too." Meanwhile, people all around started mumbling about "I didn't know you could take the test before Jr year."

By umak on Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 10:47 pm: Edit

HI, i'm attending a prep boarding school for 3 years. i'm just cuious if colleges recognize that some prep schools are much much harder than public schools even with AP or honors courses. For example, i've been to public school and had A's and B's the whole time but since i started to attend to a prep school my grades were B's and C's. Will college take that into consideration i mean isn't a prep school like an honors comparison to public schools.

By Dave Berry on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 10:23 am: Edit

College admissions offices maintain performance profiles on the high schools that submit applicants to them. They are certainly aware of the variations in difficulty of the various schools they deal with. Don't worry; if your prep school is a known high performer, your relatively lower grades will be taken into proper context. Just continue to do your best.

By Krystle on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 08:56 am: Edit

How do i calculate my GPA from a 93 to the 4.0 scale

By Katie on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:00 am: Edit

How do I figure out what my High School GPA is on the 4.0 scale when on my report card it only gave me something like a 93.6654?

By BBB on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Many high schools assign their own letter-grade ranges, e.g., 93 - 100 is an A, etc. If yours doesn't, the colleges will apply their own estimated calculation. Letter grades and numeric grades aren't directly comparable. For example, a student who earned a 94 in every subject would have a 4.0 at many schools - a perfect GPA for an imperfect record.

I'd say you have a low-A record. College will want to know your class rank, too, to gauge what your grades mean.

By Mark on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 11:00 pm: Edit

Question for Dave Berry. Re:"Ivy admits in most cases have NO free periods on their records...Make a sensible choice, but ditch that free time. It will come back to bite you."

I go to a competitive HS (in the top 50 public schools for HYP acceptances). My school has an 8-period day. This year (my junior year) I'm taking AP US History, AP Calc AB, AP Chem, AP Physics B, Spanish Honors (will take AP Spanish Senior year), two semesters of challenging English electives, plus the following required courses: PE, Health, and Driver's Ed. I have left 1 free period out of 8 for the whole year. Would it be OK to just fill it for one semester? I was thinking a Constitutional Law or Geography of Nationalism social studies elective, as my tentative major is either Anthropology, Government/Politics, or Sociology. Is it necessary to fill it at all?

Right now I'm leaning towards Princeton or Dartmouth as my top/reach schools. The stats I have thusfar are current 3.9 GPA , 5 on AP Euro, and four 760+ SAT IIs. A response from the great Dave Berry would really make my day

By cate on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 12:37 am: Edit

I know this is a bit off the topic, but do minor classes carry any weight in admissions? At my school, we have 5 "major" classes, and a minor class (gym, health, writers' workshop, etc.) to fill one of the spare periods four days a week (the other day is lab). Would these minor classes count at all? I ended up with a D+ in one, and I'm really worried that it's going to ruin my chances at almost any school.

By Dave Berry on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 12:00 pm: Edit

"...the great Dave Berry." LOL Thanks for the ingratiation (SAT word), Mark, but I'd much prefer "fabulously wealthy" and have it be true. j/k, obviously (I think.) My comment, which is oft-quoted, BTW, is meant simply as a reminder that if you're targeting the best schools in America (it looks like you are), you had better not take the path of lesser resistance when it comes to scheduling.

I would say that in your case, you could choose to fill that open slot or do something meaningful with your free time. Could you plug in some activity that relates to a favorite EC? Could you come up with something that would blend in and augment any hooks you have?

My main reason for saying what I did is to bring home the point that an Ivy-aspiring high schooler should not have a study-hall period where the main motivation is to get his homework done so that he can watch more MTV in the evening. Also, that's not to say that you shouldn't have fun in your life. I would suggest, however, that you read the list of activities and accomplishments of typical Princeton applicants that appears on page 228 of Getting In by Bill Paul. I don't think too many of these kids had study halls on their schedules.

By Mark on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 05:22 pm: Edit

Thanks for your advice. My current ECs are mostly school-based but out-of-school (school newspaper, food pantry, English tutoring for Spanish-speakers, tennis team, ski team, and religion school peer leadership). I was considering asking my English teacher this year if I could help out in my school's English clinic during my free period by proofreading and offering advice on student essays, etc., because English is a strong subject for me. I realize this wouldn't be the 4 year+ commitment to an EC that selective colleges like, but I didn't think it would be right for me to give advice on English until I was an junior.

BTW, I bought your America's Elite Colleges book, so whatever meager royalties you get from the publisher will help you (a little) towards becoming "fabulously wealthy."

By Concerned on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 10:08 pm: Edit

hey Mr. Berry, can you check out my sophomore year schedule. I was really concerned about the stuff you said regarding the free period.

AP Bio
AP Chem
AP American Hist.
Eng 11 honors (advanced for a sophomore and honors)
Spanish 3A (same as above)
Comp. Programming (elective type)
Lunch
?Free?
?Free?

Now, there is a 9 period day in my high school. And different days are designated as A,B,C,D,E,F; following consecutively. The above 6 courses i've named plus lunch are every day, that is,
A-F.

You may be wondering about math. Well, I take math at a state university nearby, where i get high school honors credit and college credit. I've been doing this for 3 years now. This is 2 days a week/3 hours a day. Therefore, theoretically this would fill up one of my free periods as a whole.

As for the other, on A,C,E days; I have gym, which is mandatory. On B days, both of these last two free periods are taken up on labs for the two AP sciences.

Therefore: "first" free period in sum- I have free periods on D and F. (A,B,C, and E are taken up with gym and labs)

second "free period". I have lab only on B days, the rest (ACDEF) are free.

But please remember, my extra math class, which if i did not take at the university would fill up one of those in all.

I know all this weird stuff is confusing at first, so please try and work with what i said, and ask if you don't quite get anything.

I've never heard anybody in my school say never take any free periods, even the guidance counselors highly encourage them. Its beyond me to juggle AP's, the math classes (which give alot of hw lol!) and ex.c's which i enjoy.

By Dave Berry on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 08:54 am: Edit

You have to understand the spirit of what I'm saying about free periods, Concerned. No elite admissions officer could ever look at your 10th-grade schedule and think you were goofing off. Far from it! I got tired just thinking about all the time you spend in class (let alone your homework load).

The spirit of my statement about free periods is this: Don't allow any time in your course schedule to stand idle. That's all I mean. Just because your schedule has the words "free period" on it hardly means that you're goofing off. As long as you are doing something constructive and fruitful--as you certainly are--no one will ever think ill of that. That's for sure.

To me, the "bad" kind of free period is when a student goes to the cafeteria in the later afternoon and just sits there and does homework or play pocket video games. To me, that's a sheer waste of time with nothing to show for it. I'm sure that you don't spend a lot of time doing that with your schedule, do you?

Don't worry, Concerned, you are looking incredibly good. Keep up the great work.

By NotSoConcernedNow on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 07:11 pm: Edit

thanks Mr. Berry for your help. But I don't really know what to do in my free periods other than my hw or study in study hall. I don't think its a bad idea, really, with everything else going on. Besides, taking another hefty course to fill them up would kill me, and taking some fluke class that i'm not to interested in doesn't prove anything either. So what would you recommend i do other than my homework, thats constructive in my free period?

Thanks again for your time!

By darkling on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 08:09 pm: Edit

Mr. Berry,
ok, hitting the "no free period" thing again. my school only has 6 periods. i have to take a free period in school this year or else my school wouldn't pay for my college course i'm taking at the local college. is that acceptable or will that be looked down upon?
and i was really slackerish freshman and sophomore years (taking a couple of rather useless classes that i was interested in and no APs). would that hurt me a lot if i took harder classes last year and am taking a tough schedule this year? thanks!

By Dave Berry on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 10:56 am: Edit

NotSoCN, maybe you could find some kind of EC goings on at your school during those free periods that you could tout on your resume, something like yearbook, student newspaper, community outreach, or wahtever. A little investigation on your part might pay off. Otherwise, just do your homework and call it a study hall.

Darkling, I don't think you'll be looked down upon if your school requires the free period in regards to a college course. If your academic profile is on the upswing after some earlier difficulties, that will be a plus for you if you keep it moving in a positive direction.

By NotSoCN on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:21 pm: Edit

thanks for your help Mr. Berry. I think i'll just use it as a study hall because school clubs are after school meetings, and its usefull for library etc to.

Thanks again

By Riles Windsor on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 08:11 pm: Edit

I am an 8th grade student, with the hope of being accepted into Harvard Law. I know the odds are slim, and you may feel that at such an age I am unsuited to make this decision, but I know this is what I desire. The following is an overview of my schedule and grades, which proceeds the class I earned the grade in. I would greatly appreciate it if you could look it over and tell me if it meets ivy league (mainly Harvard Law) standards.

- Honors Spanish: 97
- Honors Social Studies: 90
- Honors Math: 88
- Honors Science: 93
- Honors English: 91
- Gym: 98
- Band: 90
- Art: 94
- Technology (or Tech for short): 93

Also, I am a member of the National Junior Honor Society and have made high honor roll for the past nine quarters. I have been a member of Girl Scouts since second grade, and have earned my Silver Award and am working towards my Gold Award. I tutor at my school two days awake for 1 hour at a time. I do community service, am a member of the school newspaper, and a member of Mathletes, a school-sponsored math team. Lastly, I am on my schools field hockey and track & field team, as well as a church soccer league.

I am curious, my school gives you the option of choosing to continue band in highschool, or take an art class such as photography. Currently, I am a third clarinet in my school's band. I am not interested in musical instruments what so ever and have little talent for it. Would it be wise to drop this class and take art?

By dont worry. on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 07:18 pm: Edit

you're in 8th grade. dont worry so much about law school, yet. do your best & take the hardest classes, get involved. thats the best advice. but honestly you have so much time, worry about other things. but if you are going to, then do your best in subjects such as History & English- take the most APS offered; those are the backbone of a law educations. Analyzation skills are key.

By LaLaLa on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Hi, I'm a junior in highschool and I get mostly B's and a few C's. I do cheerleading and gymanstics. I don't want to go to a really good college, like Harvard...but I do want to go to a good one. Do you think I will get into any good colleges?

By LaLa on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 08:36 pm: Edit

someone please answer my question!!!!

By babydoll on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 02:36 pm: Edit

I am gathering information about weighted vs unweighted grading scales. Are weighted scales fair? What would make them better? Should they exist at all? I'd like to hear some people's opinions and their facts that back their opinion. I've got to get this report in soon, so reply quickly. Thanks