BEST HIGH SCHOOL IN U.S.





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Discus: College Admissions: July 2004 Archive: BEST HIGH SCHOOL IN U.S.
By 301aish (301aish) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 02:00 am: Edit

Hey--which is the best H.S. in the U.S---
Bronx Science, Stuyvesant, Byram Hills, Ward Melville, Thomas Jefferson, Montgomery Blair... etc...in terms of academics, intel, college admissions, etc...

By Tropicanabanana (Tropicanabanana) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 02:10 am: Edit

woah..people have actually heard of Montgomery Blair? It's such a shithole... You should say "Montgomery Blair Magnet..." Because the part of the school where the non-white people are is a prison.

I go there. The magnet is pretty good in terms of college admissions. 4 people got into Yale. 3 are going, one is going to Stanford. 4 got into Harvard, 1 is going, one is going to MIT, 3 are going to Yale. About 5 got into MIT, and maybe3 or 4 into Stanford.

For intel, it's great. It places second after Stuy. Which apparently is our rival school, but few of them have heard about us, for the aforementioned reason (ie cesspool).

Academics for the white kids (ie AP and magnet classes are good). For everyone else, they're really bad.

By Haithman (Haithman) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 02:18 am: Edit

Roxbury Latin?
Montgomery Blair looks like a nice school, Ive passed by several times (I live 20 mins away and my brother lives like 5 mins away). Never been inside though.

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 03:04 am: Edit

Central High School in Philadelphia!

By Roh (Roh) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 03:07 am: Edit

Campolindo High School! =)

By Jeffman85 (Jeffman85) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 03:27 am: Edit

Laguna Creek High School- TOP OF THE LINE.

By Snuffles (Snuffles) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 03:38 am: Edit

heh, never thought there'd be a fellow campolindo student out there.

By Spencer915 (Spencer915) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 03:41 am: Edit

I've never heard of any of the schools that you've mentioned. When I think of elite high schools known for good admissions at top colleges, I think of Exeter, Andover, and Harvard-Westlake (though I'm a little biased seeing as I go to HW). Last year, Harvard-Westlake sent 21% of a class of 260 students to ivy league schools. Penn's class of '07 is 1% made up of Harvard Westlake. We send about 10 each year to Harvard, Yale, and Columbia.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 04:14 am: Edit

Acalanes, Campolindo and Miramonte, yeah Lamorinda, represent.

By Howdydoody (Howdydoody) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 04:44 am: Edit

Spencer, are HYP more popular at HW than Stanford? It seems that Stanford would be the ideal school to a HW kid.

By Impulse (Impulse) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 06:45 am: Edit

www.stuycom.net/senioritis.php
stuyvesant's graduating class this year...

By Kepler797 (Kepler797) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 07:08 am: Edit

Andover academy is the best high school in the country. I did't go there, but I'm about 90% sure I saw it in a magazine ranked #1 in the U.S. Normally the best schools are your privates. I think that some public school in Boston is the best public school.

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 07:15 am: Edit

You mean The Boston Latin School?

By Amylase (Amylase) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 09:11 am: Edit

You must be joking. The best high school in U.S. is definitely College Confidential

By Jenskate1 (Jenskate1) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 10:17 am: Edit

I am so flattered that you think my high school, Ward melville, is one of the best in the nation.

Surely you are from NY, few people outside of the state have heard of it. We do awesome in intel, science olympiad, science bowl, etc. And we have good music and busness programs...but as in any school there is a large contingent of people who simply don't care, plus a fair amount of drug addicts, etc.

How can any of us judge which school is the best in the nation? Most of us have only gone to one, or maybe 2.

Some schools have awesome reputations, based on only a few kid's activities.

By Anthem429 (Anthem429) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 10:22 am: Edit

Montgomery Blair is a great school if you are in the magnet program, but I've heard so many depressing stories about stressed out kids who burn out because of the workload and intense competition.

By Momx4 (Momx4) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 11:04 am: Edit

Jenskate, much as I hate to admit it, for years Ward Melville has been most well known regionally for our lacrosse team. While students around the country may not know of the academic reputation (science research and to a lesser degree, music) of Ward Melville, college adcoms do. For a public non-magnet school, we have a phenomenal record of getting kids into top colleges, and families who want their kids to get into good colleges move into our district. You will probably agree with me that the teaching and administration are not uniformly good (to put it mildly) but the academic and music extra- curriculars are outstanding. For the students who are in a position to take advantage of what Melville has to offer, it can be a great place to go to high school. Unfortunately the cut-throat competition between some students gets out of hand and takes a lot away from the high school experience. And there are a lot of students whose major high school activities are drugs, alcohol, fighting and hooking up while the administration conveniently has its head stuck in the sand. The proportion of students in our school who get regents diplomas or go to four year colleges is roughly the same as our neighboring districts, which is surprising given the vast educational opportunities our district provides. In the end, though, if you are one of those students who takes advantage of the opportunities, which you obviously are, you come away with a good education and some good life lessons too.

By Noodleman (Noodleman) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 11:19 am: Edit

My old school.

STUY 04--HYPSM, Cornell, Columbia, Brown, Dart, UPenn. Almost 40%.

This is just this year's seniors who bothered to post where they're going.

Brown [ED]
Brown [ED]
Brown [ED]
Columbia A/S
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia SEAS
Columbia SEAS [ED]
Columbia SEAS [ED]
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Cornell A/S
Cornell A/S
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Cornell A/S [ED]
Cornell A/S [ED]
Cornell A/S [ED]
Cornell AAP [ED]
Cornell ALS
Cornell ALS
Cornell ALS [ED]
Cornell ALS [ED]
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering [ED]
Cornell Engineering [ED]
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Cornell Engineering [ED]
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Cornell Engineering [ED]
Cornell H.E
Cornell H.E
Cornell H.E
Cornell ILR
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth [ED]
Dartmouth [ED]
Dartmouth [ED]
Dartmouth [ED]
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Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
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Harvard
Harvard
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Harvard
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
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MIT
MIT
MIT
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MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT [ED]
MIT [ED]
MIT [ED]
MIT [ED]
MIT [ED]
Princeton
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Princeton [ED]
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Stanford
Stanford
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Stanford [ED]
Stanford [ED]
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Stanford [ED]
U of Penn
U of Penn
U of Penn
U of Penn
U of Penn
U of Penn [ED]
U of Penn [ED]
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U of Penn [ED]
U of Penn [ED]
Yale
Yale
Yale [ED]
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Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]

By Arsalan (Arsalan) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 11:28 am: Edit

High School for Environmental Studies is the place to go dude! They have one of the smartest people in NY overthere. I went there with a friend, and everybody is like a genius there. Its a relatively very new school. Only 14 years old, but still, i think i wudve gone there! U shud see their debate team guys and their drama club people. Ive gone to almost all events, coz my friend who goes there, drags me to every event. I think its a really really gud school.

By Pea0x4 (Pea0x4) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Matriculation to Ivy and top technical schools for the past 3 years from EXETER...

Brown: 34

CalTech: 5

Columbia: 23

Cornell U: 28

Dartmouth: 25

Harvard: 37

MIT: 22

Pennsylvania, Univ: 39

Princeton: 24

Stanford: 19

Yale: 39

Many more go to top liberal arts schools and other top 25 universities, and I can provide numbers if you're interested...

Exeter's focus isn't on college placement though.. it's about LEARNING FOR THE SAKE OF LEARNING. The curriculum is based on an oval table (the "Harkness Table"), around which 12 students (at most) and a teacher DISCUSS. Each class, whether math or science or English, is a sustained dialogue among the students, the teacher acting as moderator, or guide. Every student contributes ideas, questions, comments to the debate. It's the most intellecutally stimulating environment a high school student can through him/herself into, in my opinion. It just so happens many colleges dig this sorta thing.

By Jenskate1 (Jenskate1) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Wow, momx4 - that was a good analysis of wm...i agreed with everything you just said.

By Sarasote (Sarasote) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 01:24 pm: Edit

on rankings its usually Andover and Exeter tied for 1st and Bronxscience and Thomas Jefferson follow

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 08:20 am: Edit

yep, don't look over Thomas Jefferson Sci/Tech. consistently producing the highest number of national merit semi-finalists even compared to bigger schools, winning all kinds academic competitions (not just for science, math, or computer science -- they're It's Ac national champ, FPS International champ,rocked at OM World Finals, etc), three students in USA Today's All-USA HS Academic Teams, intel semi-finalists and an intel finalist this year, and more. considering the tight funding they're always experiencing (previous year's funding cap of 1,000 students to cover the school's 1,600 students had just been increased to 1,300 which is still not enough), it's no wonder they're always up there in ranking for public high schools.

By Elizabeth22 (Elizabeth22) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:17 am: Edit

Pea, I'm interested in the other numbers- will you post them?

By 08pride (08pride) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Philips Exeter is a beast

By Needhelp06 (Needhelp06) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 02:42 pm: Edit

thomas jefferson beats every school out there hands down. philips exeter doesn't even compare.

By Mhawk177 (Mhawk177) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

I've heard some good things about TJ

By Zevdebee (Zevdebee) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 04:52 pm: Edit

theres a bunch of great boarding schools in New Jersey.

By Crazyyykid (Crazyyykid) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 06:47 pm: Edit

Where do you people get these rankings. I only heard of Lawrenceville, Peddie, and some other school in NJ. I think the original poster was naming public high schools. Horace Mann, Dalton, Riverdale are great schools in NYC. Exeter and Andover are considered the best by many, but not all. Roxbury Latin and the Boston public schools are great. But when you think about it, college is more looked at during your adult life. "Where did you go to college?" I have not heard many adults ask "Where did you go to high school?" This is just some nonscientific observation I have made.

By Jf215 (Jf215) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Whoever said Central HS in Philly, you're joking right?

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 07:18 pm: Edit

If you go to a notable high school it will be part of your identity forever. Bush went to Yale and Andover. Kerry to Yale and St. Paul's and so on...

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:00 pm: Edit

Jf215: What’s the joke? Where do you go to school?

By Stevengoo (Stevengoo) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

also... smithtown (NY) has one of the best musical programs in the NYS... most kids in smith applying for music colleges got in easily... the 12th grade this yr has been one of the smartest in recent years...

By Irock1ce (Irock1ce) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:32 pm: Edit

lol if the top 20% of college confidential made up a HS.... we'd be the top HS in the country.. HANDS DOWN.

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Yes, but we’d never get any work accomplished, as we would spend our time arguing.

By Michael_Pham (Michael_Pham) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Harding High School is the best just cuz I go there. ranked 65th by newsweek magazine

academics are good, has the IB/AP program, many students go on to HYPSM etc

Myers Park - 7th by newsweek magazine

really tough school

North Carolina School of Science and Math

just because I only know schools in north carolina

By 08pride (08pride) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 11:46 pm: Edit

OMG, I was just looking at the facebook, and like 25 kids went to Harvard from Phillips Exeter FROM THE SAME CLASS!!! What is this??

By Chocoman (Chocoman) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Thomas Jefferson is sick.

I heard their lowest SAT score was 1200, and second lowest was 1300.


1300 would be like 8th highest in my class.

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:28 am: Edit

Where exactly is this school?

By Chasgoose (Chasgoose) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:39 am: Edit

Well when you have to get a very high score on what is basically a standardized test in order to get into Thomas Jefferson, that little SAT score statistic isnt that special.

By Haithman (Haithman) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:47 am: Edit

I seriously think if we put all of the CC people together, we could probably take over the world! Mwahahaha! LoL.
Exeter, Andover, Stuy, Roxbury and TJ are the best in the nation.

By Geniusash (Geniusash) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:59 am: Edit

Lakeville High School Lakeville, MN GO PUBLIC SCHOOL!

By Maryville (Maryville) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:41 pm: Edit

East St. Louis High is an excellent school. I've heard that kids who graduated from Compton go to Cal Tech as well.

By Cchopeful08 (Cchopeful08) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Regis HS in nyc

By 08pride (08pride) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 03:05 pm: Edit

"Matriculation to Ivy and top technical schools for the past 3 years from EXETER...

Brown: 34

CalTech: 5

Columbia: 23

Cornell U: 28

Dartmouth: 25

Harvard: 37

MIT: 22

Pennsylvania, Univ: 39

Princeton: 24

Stanford: 19

Yale: 39"


THAT'S DISGUSTING!!!! WHAT THE HELL??? 37 PEOPLE TO HARVARD IN 3 YEARS?????????????????????????? WHAT IS THAT SCHOOL?

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Thomas Jefferson has around 1600 students and is located in Northern Virginia. And no, they don't use the SAT for freshmen admission. They use a separate math/verbal/logic test with three essays. They only use the SAT for sophomore replacement because there aren't many spots for them so why hold a separate test. There's no junior/senior admission, for probably obvious reasons. And as I've said, TJ has many more things going for them than a little SAT statistic. If only we're half as rich as Exeter, we'd prolly be as good if not more. Public school-wise, we're definitely up there.

By Mastadecoy3 (Mastadecoy3) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 04:53 pm: Edit

Who are you Taurustorus? I'm a TJ alum.

By Moco (Moco) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Yes, a chance to stand up for my now alma mater. I think Montgomery Blair is probably one of the best public high schools in the country, if not one of the best in general. We have the second most intel semifinalists, even though we only have around 100 students in each magnet class. According to the coversheet we sent to colleges the average SAT score for the magnet is around 1500.

Tropicana, where'd you get those figures? We had about 12 or 13 kids get into MIT and like 7 into Stanford.

TJ and Stuyvesant are definite tops as well and I don't really know anything about private schools.

By Mahras (Mahras) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Haitham,

"I seriously think if we put all of the CC people together, we could probably take over the world! Mwahahaha! LoL."

The world pssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh......you have to be kidding me. Of we combine the minds of all the people in cc we will take over the universe and create "THE COLLEGE CONFIDENTIAL UNITED CONGRESS".

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 06:53 pm: Edit

08pride, the kids at Exeter and the other5 or so top prep schools were alrealdy selected using ivy league-like criteria. Then they go to these schools and work like dogs, must play sports and do community service. No mystery why so many go to top colleges.

By Shannon05 (Shannon05) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 07:01 pm: Edit

for sports its De La Salle

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:24 pm: Edit

Mastadecoy3 writes, "Who are you Taurustorus? I'm a TJ alum."

hi! i'm a rising senior at TJ. that's why i don't shut up about it :-). from what year are you? where did (do) you go to college?

By Mastadecoy3 (Mastadecoy3) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:03 pm: Edit

I'm 2004 =]

By Chatterjoy87 (Chatterjoy87) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

These are all public schools?

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

not andover or exeter

By Nitroxideracer (Nitroxideracer) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 02:30 pm: Edit

The high school I graduated from this year has a special case for being the best:

duPont Manual High in Louisville, KY!

We are a public, magnet high school with five distinct programs. The most notable are the Youth Performing Arts School (YPAS), known around this area of the country as one of the best theatre/music programs, and the Math-Science-Technology program (the one I graduated from).

Though my high school is only allowed to accept kids from this county (POP: 655,000), have a racial quota of 25% afro-american & 25% other non-whites, we still have the highest evrything-and-a-bag-of-chips scores in the state. Our average SAT was 1260 and avg. ACT was 26.3. 417 out of 419 entering freshman in the Class of 2004 graduated and are going on to college. 70% of the class had a 3.0 GPA (4.0 scale) or above with very challenging courses, and the highest state test scores for 18 straight years.

The primary weakness of being a school in Kentucky is that big-name schools won't give us the light of day. But we have so many amazing students its scary. This past year, we had eight students score 36 on the ACT, and there were only nine for the entire state. We had eleven (11) kids score 1600 on their SATs. We had 35 kids take 10 or more AP tests during their high school careers. We have gotten at least one kid into Harvard for six years in a row but those elitist @$$holes didn't take one of our grads this year. However, among major schools, we still rock. Our grads are going to:

- Yale (1)
- Stanford (4)
- USC (2)
- UCLA (2)
- UNC-Chapel Hill (1)
- Duke (1)
- U Mich-Ann Arbor (1)
- Northwestern (4)
- U Chicago (3)
- Wash U in St. Louis (2)
- Georgia Tech (3)
- Vanderbilt (2, including me!)
- Columbia (1)

We have led the state with more national merit semifinalists for 15 years in a row. This year we had 32, though last years had 50! As a public school in Kentucky (one of the worst states in education in America - 49th in fact), we are amazing.

By Gottagetout (Gottagetout) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 03:01 pm: Edit

Hahahahaha... duPont Manual... hahahahaha...

Sorry, duPont Manual may be an entire magnet school but its students aren't the best in Kentucky. The students of the Math, Science, Technology Center at Paul Laurence Dunbar in Lexington are the best in Kentucky. :-P

duPont Manual academic team? Crushed...

My vote goes to TJ.

By Taxguy (Taxguy) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 04:22 pm: Edit

If you are looking to get into a top notch college, any good private school will beat out any top public school.Why? Endowments are down at most colleges. College may be need blind once a student is admitted,but they know that if they admit a kid from a private school, need will probably not be a factor. Sadly, this is a fact a life. This is why the top private schools will send many folks to top colleges!

There is a second reason though. No college likes to take too many from one public school. Thus, if you go to a magnet school where the average SAT is phenominal, very few, percentage wise, of the top students will get into a top college. If the same kids went to their home school, their chances would improve immeasurably. Another sad and stupid fact of life.

and Yes, I know what I am talking about.

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 08:44 pm: Edit

meh, the whole endowment argument just strengthens my belief that TJ and other top public schools might be better academically compared to private schools whose only edge is the fact that they can flaunt their kids' money to colleges.

and, for a lot of us, trying to get into HYPSM isn't the main reason we go to magnet schools. for people like me, it's so we can be surrounded by others who are as motivated and as academically-oriented as we are, if not more. we also like the freedom and trust adults have for us, ie seniors get off-campus lunch, all can have lunch anywhere in the building as opposed to being confined in the cafeteria, there's no random locker/backpack searches, no metal detectors, teachers don't go rounding up students who're walking down the hallways during class time, little things like that which add up to a lot. there's also a lot less fights and racial tension and things like that that are part of everyday life at base schools that just give you headaches and don't create a good learning atmosphere. for a lot (if not most) of us magnet school-goers, these things mean a lot more than bettering our chances at getting into "top notch" colleges. in fact, there have been several published articles about how going to TJ might actually hurt students' chances of getting into the Ivies--they never stop kids from wanting to go to TJ.

all that said, i don't know what you mean by "No college likes to take too many from one public school." do you just mean private colleges? (even though i don't know what the rationale behind that and would like to know) 'coz each year around a third of our seniors (140-150+) end up going to UVA, and practically all seniors apply to the school as safety and most get accepted. and it's top notch public university.

anyway, i really love going to TJ. i'm sure kids at other magnet schools feel the same way. and even if i become rich one day (rich enough to be able to send my kids to exeter), i'd send my kids to TJ any day over some "top" private school. geez, i can feed so many kids in Africa with that annual 30 grand in tuition money.

By Paulhomework (Paulhomework) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 08:58 pm: Edit

OMG look at Exeter!!! their little 3 year numbers probably thwart the entire history of my high school

By Crazyyykid (Crazyyykid) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 09:26 pm: Edit

Mom101,

The two people you named are in the public's eye. I'm talking about average everyday people. People may know that Kennedy, Michael Douglass went to Choate. Dan Brown went to Exeter. But where did your doctor, dentist, lawyer, real estate broker go to high school? Did you ever ask them? In their respective offices you see what undergraduate school and graduate school they attended.

Also, that generalization that those top prep school kids work like dogs is not true. I have seen many overachievers and many slackers at school.

By Pea0x4 (Pea0x4) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Elisabeth22 --> Here are some more numbers from Exeter for some other good universities and top LACs (Ivy stats posted on the 17th):

Amherst: 14
Cal Berkeley, U: 7
Chicago, U: 12
Duke: 16
Georgetown: 37
Johns Hopkins: 24
Michigan, U: 7
New York University: 16
Northwestern: 12
Swarthmore: 6
Tufts: 20
Virginia, U: 15
Williams: 11

Keep in mind, these stats represent students who actually matriculated to the school, not just those accepted.

To be fair, Exeter is large compared to some of its peers (about 1000 students in all, including post-grads), though Andover - our traditional rival - is larger by about 100 students.

I'd love to answer any questions you guys might have about the school... my info is pretty up to date - I just finished up four years at the place.

By Justice (Justice) on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Andover's in stats for 2004(not matric)(out of class of just under 300):

Harvard- 22
Yale- 15
Princeton- 12
Stanford- 10
Penn- 17
Cornell- 23
Brown- 25
MIT- 11
Tufts- 28
Williams- 6
Dart- 8
Vandy- 12

By Aab123 (Aab123) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:55 am: Edit

Horace Mann- look it up

By Ownownage (Ownownage) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Just read this:

http://www.csh.k12.ny.us/highschool/data/TheTopHighSchools.htm

By Sybbie719 (Sybbie719) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 04:06 pm: Edit

I think that the thread needs to be broken out into private and public schools. maybe the publics need to be broken out into specialized h.s. (Stuy and Bx Science you must test in to and there are cut offs because of the large # of NYC students who apply) and schools with open admissions.
There are also differences in urban and surburban enviorments.


JMHO

By 301aish (301aish) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:40 pm: Edit

ownownage--What is that list supposed to mean?? 341--Seminole Fl? And no mention of Stuyvesant or Bronx Science....hmmmmm...something is not quite right here.....I'm sorry, but that list doesnt make sense

By Takiusproteus (Takiusproteus) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:52 pm: Edit

301aish:

ownownage's list refers only to non-selective High Schools.. the ones you don't have to take tests to get into. Average open schools. Not really an indicator of the 'best' HS. It just has a list of the "Best of the Average" Highschools. So... no Stuy/BxSci etc.

By Yourworld (Yourworld) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 01:05 am: Edit

Altho it is not germain to this discussion, Thomas Jefferson is a stupid name for a top high school. Do you know how many inner-city public highs are named after presidents?

By Davidrune (Davidrune) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 01:22 am: Edit

What's the best high school in Canada?

By Bellevueteen (Bellevueteen) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 01:59 am: Edit

Ownownage refers to an article by newsweek about top high schools that's (IMO) complete bull. Our district had all 5 high schools make the list (3 in the top 20), and we're decent, but not that good...the way they come up with the rankings is the number of AP/IB tests taken divided by the number of students. Top prep schools might not bother with AP or so I heard. Anyways, this district has a leadership really gung-ho about AP which is how we inflated our numbers into that list.

By Dzleprechaun (Dzleprechaun) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 02:41 am: Edit

That list is the exact moment when I lost all respect for Newsweek: 4 . Alabama School of Fine Arts | Birmingham | Ala. | 4.567

Yea, Alabama School of Farts, right hahahaha. #4 in the country. Uh huh. I know what criteria they used and it's really stupid, based entirely off of AP/IB test yield.

By Jrpar (Jrpar) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 07:14 am: Edit

The Newsweek poll is solely based on # of AP courses taken; not very helpful. Schools have very different policies about letting kids into AP courses.

By Chatterjoy87 (Chatterjoy87) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 01:36 pm: Edit

The list is based on public high schools. So those really good schools you were talking about earlier were probably disqualified because they were private or had such high bars to entry (over 50% of students who want to go barred because of academics or something like that) that they no longer qualified as 'public'.

Besides, it's about the best school, not the best students. Students from Andover and Exeter and TJ get into good schools, but they weren't exactly dunces when they entered the school. They were all already very smart and/or rich. A lot of the schools on the Newsweek list are relatively humble, that's true, but the list is about the school and encouraging students to challenge themselves (like taking many AP/IB course).

Because they are public schools, there are a certain number of geniuses and not-so-brilliant people in every class, so of course they won't have 30+ people getting into each Ivy League, especially when some of the schools have around 100 in each graduating class.

By Whtx (Whtx) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 02:52 pm: Edit

i think the best PUBLIC school in the country is TJ, then the NY school.

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 04:14 pm: Edit

so chatterjoy87, you're saying that the quality of students doesn't count in determining whether the high school's "the best" or not? i mean, come on, not taking the students into account, what do you have left? the best facilities make the schools "the best"? that's ludicrous (but even if you're trying to make that argument, schools like TJ, the first/only HS in US that has a supercomputer, would still win). also, money doesn't affect admission into TJ, or other public magnet schools. altho if you're saying the richer you are the more educational opportunities you'd already have, bettering admission chances, then ya, you're probably right.

By Chatterjoy87 (Chatterjoy87) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 12:38 am: Edit

I was pointing out the fact that Newsweek's poll wasn't as foolish as people think it is.

Props to people who go to TJ.

If you'd like to have a duel to defend the honor of your high school, I don't mind. But I don't own a gauntlet to throw, sorry.

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 10:42 am: Edit

no, that wasn't what i was doing, and i don't intend to waste my time doing that. the fact that i kept using TJ as an example was b/c that's the only school i'm really familiar with. i was merely pointing out the fact that albeit your intention was honorable, your arguments were weak/illogical ("it's about the best schools, not the best students"; refer to the specific points i mentioned). clearly, by now you're not the only one who has pointed out the fact that the newsweek poll doesn't include selective schools. and most of us know the virtues of the poll (heck, and i'm damn proud of it b/c my base school and practically all of the HS in Fairfax County were on the list). some people don't agree with the poll, and they have good reasons if they're basing them off of this thread ("best HS in US"). saying that schools like Exeter already have good students to begin with and therefore don't encourage students to challenge themselves like the schools on the newsweek list, though, is ill-founded.

By Boston05 (Boston05) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 12:44 pm: Edit

http://www.auap.com/prepschoolclass.html

according to that, its roxbury latin at number 1. all those schools are great though (#8!)

By Jf215 (Jf215) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 01:12 pm: Edit

whoever asked, i go to GA outside of Philly. Maybe central is one of the best public high schools in the city, but best high school in the nation? Wake up from your dream.

By Justice (Justice) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 01:58 pm: Edit

That feeder stuff is BS. They force top students to choose one school out of HYP early on and use exclusive lists to get kids in. There are no cross-admits.
If you wanna talk facilities then I think most prep schools, even t2, would own any public school. Schools like Andover/Exeter have bigger endowments than Williams.

By Gottagetout (Gottagetout) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 05:04 pm: Edit

There is something to be said about magnet systems with respect to "good" schools, however. I used to live in NoVa and would have most likely gone to TJ if I had not moved just before 7th grade.

I was in a elementary/middle school for half a year and my sister was in a high school for half of a year in NoVa. The kids were decent but not spectacular. The teachers were incredibly poor. My sister took a second year chemistry course in which none of the glassware was ever washed and few things were labeled/things were mislabeled. She complained -- nothing was done. Other teachers would actively tell the students they'd rather be somewhere else, etc. It was too much for her to take (and my experience was similar -- the in-school GT programs are a joke (we made "floats" out of shoeboxes about our "heritage")), and so we transferred to a private school. We were much happier.

What's that you say? They were bad schools? No. This was in Fairfax County. She went to James Madison High School. James Madison is ranked 107 on the Newsweek list.

Now, analysis: Why did were the schools so bad? Suburban apathy and magnet programs. Yes, magnet programs. TJ and others had already skimmed anyone off of the general pool who had substance, cared, or had parents who cared. Private schools had taken others. If one were to model the population of the general schools or "base" schools over various metrics, it would show a normal distribution that had been roughly truncated on the upper end. She was a junior and TJ wouldn't accept applicants past sophomore year (and even then very few). The private school was good, but liberal arts based. Eventually, she went to MIT and earned an SB is Biology. This autumn she'll be attending Washington University Medical School.

This may all seem off-topic, but I assure you, it is not. James Madison is ranked highly, offers a large number of AP courses, and has a high test score average largely because Fairfax County (and particularly that area) is incredibly affluent. The school is (or was in the late 90's) bad but rates highly due to the side effects of affluence.

Similarly, why is TJ such an incredibly awesome school? TJ pulls from several surrounding counties with large, affluent, intelligent populations. This is where government workers, military leaders and commanders, contractors, etc. live -- with their children. TJ takes the top couple hundred students in each grade from these counties (Fairfax alone (a medium-sized suburban county) has well over 1 million residents). TJ's kids are smart, they want to be there, and their parents care.

So now, ask yourself, what makes a good school? What makes a school the "best"? Is it the student population? Is it improvement? Success? What? What metric will you use? James Madison is a poor school, rated highly. TJ is a spectacular school but by what cause?

Holistically, without consideration of any "unfair advantage" one school might have over another because of student selection, I believe TJ is the "best" high school in the US.

I hope this makes the distinction clear and elicits thought in you about what any of this means.

Cheers,
GottaGetOut

By Yourworld (Yourworld) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Any 1 know where chelsea clinton went to HS ?

By Cama (Cama) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Friends Academy

By Morningafter1 (Morningafter1) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 10:54 pm: Edit

the best non magnet, non private high school in America is New Trier in Winnetka Illinois.

By Spiffydude04 (Spiffydude04) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 11:50 pm: Edit

chelsea went to sidwell friends school in NW DC

By Flyingpenguin (Flyingpenguin) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 05:55 am: Edit

Oh wow, Uni is on the public school list. They have three graduates that have won Nobels. My mom really wanted me to go there. It's a really different school, there's usually a giant pile of papers in the hallways and people stick stuff all over their lockers.

By 301aish (301aish) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 09:05 pm: Edit

I think bx science has most nobel graduates and intel finalists in the nation...six nobel lauterates, all in physics, lol

By Crazyyykid (Crazyyykid) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:11 am: Edit

301 I heard that it was Stuy from someone else.

By Crazyyykid (Crazyyykid) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:11 am: Edit

301 I heard that it was Stuy from someone else.

By Mahras (Mahras) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:19 am: Edit

its bxscience. just go to the website and do a search. stuy only has 2. the number is 5 btw.

By Taxguy (Taxguy) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 12:07 pm: Edit

I sat next to someone who was on the board of trustees for Yale. She gave me quite an insight into the top schools.

First, college endowments are down. This has caused Yale and all other IVY schools that she knows about to seek kids that don't need financial aid. You might be asking, "
Aren't college need blind in admissions?" The answer is partially yes. Here is the real dirty secret:

Top private colleges take a disproportionate number of kids from private high schools. The thinking is that if the parents could afford to send them to places like Exerter etc., they won't need financial aid. This is why it is substantially easier to get into the top schools from private schools then from any public school! It is a sad fact but true.

As for Magnet schools, these are great. However, kids who go to these schools will substantially reduce their chances of getting into a top schools. Why?

There are several things going against magnet schools. First, they are usually public schools, which face discrimination based on the above noted discussion. Secondly, Top schools don't like to take too many from any one public school. With Magnet schools there is a plethera of top students. Only a limited amount of these can get admitted to the top schools Again. this is sad but true.

Frankly, there are a number of top public schools that offer great honors and AP courses. One example is Wootton HS in Maryland that offers every AP exam available, even AP studio art. However, the sad truth is this: No public school will have more students getting into the top private Universities as does a good private high school. Thus, if you really want to increase your kids chances of getting into Yale, Dartmouth etc, send them to a good private schools. Always remember Bush got into Yale with 1200 SATs! Try getting into any IVY with those scores from a public school.

By Taxguy (Taxguy) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

I wish that we can edit our posts that are over 30 minutes old. When I say, "No college likes to take too many kids from one public school," I am omitting state schools who take a lot from their state. I am referring to top private colleges taking kids from public (non private) high schools. Many of these top colleges don't have the same adversity to take kids from Exeter, Andover, Choate etc.

The only time that I would send a kid to a public magnet school is if I couldn't afford to send them to a good private school and the home school is lacking in quality. WE see this a lot in Maryland. Wootton or Churchill are two of the better high schools in Maryland. Yet, very few, percentage wise, go to a Maryland magnet school. On the other hand, "poorer" schools like Seneca Valley and Einstein have a higher percentage of their top kids to go the magnet schools instead of going to their home high school. Certainly, this is a generalization,but it is still true for a number of top kids.

By Angeldesignpro (Angeldesignpro) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Some TJ stats (where kids are going, not where they were accepted):

Class size: About 400, probably closer to 420 or so

Harvard: 6
Yale: 10
Princeton: 10
Stanford: 9
MIT: 11

And for a surprising but expected statistic:

UVa: 144

(Got this all from the senior issue of our school paper, not going to bother typing in any more)

If UVa wasn't such a perfect choice for TJ kids (cheap, easy to get into from TJ, great school) then our "ivy" stats would be a lot higher.

You can tell we're over achievers though. We have more kids going to HYPSM than we do going to all 8 Ivy League schools o.0

By Newyorker (Newyorker) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Yo what the fudge? You talk about Bronx Science and Stuy, but NEGLECT to mention Brooklyn Tech? Hell, what are you pedantic people smoking? We are one of the three schools, yet despite our "overwhelmingly" large minority population we rank best.

We are just as good as stuy, perhaps in ways better. Our courseload is the toughest in the city, MUCH tougher and longer than Stuy's. We have majors. As well as 2 nobel laureates, other hall of famers, such as Leonard Riggio (CEO of Barnes and Noble and creator) and others. We have a slew of APs and even majors (areas of concentration) within the 11 story building, and 4000 students.

WHY do you leave us out? Our school is top notch. A lot of people go to Ivies, but alas, many simply choose to matriculate in local CUNY and SUNY schools.

And you people mention Midwood and the likes of the NYC schools. I can pull of a 3.5+ doing Nothing there, I swear it.

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 08:33 pm: Edit

well, thanks for mentioning Brooklyn Tech and bringing your school into a greater awareness. i don't think any of us was smoking anything, newyorker; why's it our fault for not knowing much about your school?

By Newyorker (Newyorker) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Nah, nah. I was just shocked that noone knows. Lmao, "nationally recognized". I dont mean fault, just out of 4 grand, id think im not the only one who frequents this site.

I will admit; Stuy has a great swim team. =)

By Hawaii2233 (Hawaii2233) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 07:58 am: Edit

The best high school? There's tens of thousands of them! There's no BEST one, that's silly. It's impossible to simply decide which school of tens of thousands is the best of all - statistics can't be used to analyze the personal effect and teach quality of each teacher. I think this whole discussion is absolutely silly. Maybe schools can be ranked in quintiles, but first and second place?! They aren't universities, don't delude yourself!

By Noodleman (Noodleman) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Hawaii:

And a great wrestling team and a great fencing team and a great math team and a great chess team. :)

Interesting anecdotal story: My 2 best friends in HS were identical twins. Adam got into Stuy, BS and Tech, Zach only got into Tech. They both do the exact same thing for a living now. What does that mean? I have no idea.

-Stuy Alum

By Curtisny (Curtisny) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Philips Exeter & Andover

Hands down the top two in terms of producing Ivy League students.

By Newyorker (Newyorker) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Never Even Heard of em. Show me a link to the website. Official and not.

By Taurustorus (Taurustorus) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 02:01 pm: Edit

you've probably never heard of them b/c they're private schools, pretty small, and cost around $30000/yr to attend, so people who know them are usually super rich people (even though there are scholarships). plus they're up north (MA and NH), pretty much in the middle of nowhere.

By Jm2006 (Jm2006) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 04:48 pm: Edit

www.andover.edu
www.exeter.edu

Ask any Manhattan private school student about them; they'll know. Guaranteed.

By Newyorker (Newyorker) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Oh, private well... 'Nuff said. A hefty price, but the results seem outstanding!

By Tlaktan (Tlaktan) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Is Phillips Academy like a collective of institutions or something?

Besides, here in Los Angeles, we must have the WORST educational systems for public high schools. In fact, I'd reckon all the major unis would reject our candidates.

By Newyorker (Newyorker) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 09:53 pm: Edit

I'd wager the peeps in NY do. Some people here, well, dont know 1+1. Why u think passing is 65. 65 is good.

By 301aish (301aish) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 09:58 pm: Edit

newyorker: i was just no mentioning tech on purpose because i knew some techie would notice and get all riled up, lol. but seriously, your school has major problems, great teachers like Mr.Zimmerman are retiring, and i hear that you guys got an INSANE principal, and he's in the NY times about everyother week with a new horror story about him, lol.

By Newyorker (Newyorker) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:56 pm: Edit

Hey, hey. True people surpass all those obstacles. I dont wanna talk about McCaskill, hes OK. Point is, we're good, everyone has some problems.
As for Mr. Zmmerman, he might be back again...you never know. The guy is damn right awesome. But seriously, mention the name. Dont treat us like we're nothing. =) Thanks.

By Kingkonglives (Kingkonglives) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

"Is Phillips Academy like a collective of institutions or something?

Besides, here in Los Angeles, we must have the WORST educational systems for public high schools. In fact, I'd reckon all the major unis would reject our candidates."

phillips andover and phillips exeter are rival prep schools they are 1 & 2 in the country... (there's a real big rivalry between them or so i've heard) extremely challenging curriculum and they have a socratic seminar type teaching method!

LA public education... yeah true but we do have some nice magnets

By Cfunkexonian (Cfunkexonian) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 02:54 am: Edit

No, the socractic seminor teaching method, or "harkness teaching" is only at Exeter. Andover still has lecture formats in many of its classes. We're sister schools, but in terms of administration, there's no governing council, we each govern our own respective institutions. But that is really what distinguishes Exeter from Andover; you can receive an excellent education from either academy, but the teaching method at each school is suited to differnet types of students. I'm also not very fond of this thread... how do you quantify the quality of a high school? Using generic standards like Ivy League acceptance stats is not only misleading, but it undermines the very purpose of secondary education.
Exeter does send a lot of students to top 20 schools, but if you look at our curriculum, we essentially offer NO AP COURSES. The belief is that our students should learn what each department feels he/she shoud learn, not what a series of examinations dictate. therefore, thoug hwe have plenty of advanced students who are certainly capable and do take AP exams, we don't call the classes AP and on our transcripts, you don't see things like "AP European History" or "AP Calculus". Instead, you would more likely find, "Advanced Mechanics" or "Modern Europe: Absolutism and the Revolution".
Another reason why AP's are not offered is that often the direciton of the curriculum is determined by the interests of the student. Since every class is discussion-based, debates and conversations in a US History class could potentially lead to a series of debates about the evolution of women's rights that could take up all of several class periods. Other AP History classes in other schools would be spending this time memorizing dates and events. Again, I'm not saying one method is more effective or better than the other, but they're different.
When colleges evaluate applications from Exeter, they realize this fact and hence emphasis is not put on AP exam scores and number of AP classes (because trust me, compared to the rest of you, Exonians would not fare very well). Does this make us a better school than Andover? Or Thomas Jefferson? Or any of the many schools mentioned in this thread?
No, of course not. Every school has its unique facets and I don't think we have any authority to decide which school is "better". What we should all do, is make the best of whatever opportunity we have. Harvard does not reject any student just because of what school he/she goes to. Obviously we don't live in a completely meritocratic society, but I honestly believe anyone can go anywhere as long as the necessary effort is applied.
Oh, and also, 35 percent of the student body at Exeter is on financial aid, and granted that it is harder to get in if one applies for financial aid, a lot of this 35 percent performs better academically. therefore, when need-blind colleges try to strategize and accept prep schoolers because of financial probabilities, it actually isn't a great deal in their favor.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Andover and Exeter are just the most well known preps, there are several more that place equal percentage or more at ivys (see recent Wall St. Journal rankings), St. Paul's and Groton most notably. Many choose those over A & E because they are smaller and less cut throat.

By Enarang (Enarang) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

these are the best that come to mind forget rankings.


Andover
Phillips Exeter Academy
St. Paul's
Groton
Colegiate
Choate
Thomas Jefferson High School
Stuyvesant
Hopkins (in CT)
Brunswick School (in CT)
GFA (in CT)
Montgomery Blaire
IMSA (Illinois Math & Science Academy)


I know students who went to Choate, Exeter and Andover and they seem normal kids and I could not have guessed they went to such schools. Quite frankly I would never pay about 30K a year for a high school education. I just don't believe in the chances game or prestige at the high school level. To me everyone has a chance. Sure the top schools such as these listed above have a better chance but techinally everyone has A chance. If one play's the cards right they can go just as far.

I know people who pay 30K a year and their son went to Exeter and just went to a "normal" college. I don't think it was worth that 120K

Just my 2 cents

By Justice (Justice) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Cfunkexonian,

As an Andover student, I can assure you that we do employ the same Socratic teaching method. Your Harkness table isn't exactly patented...head over to our English building and you will see many of them. I loved your post though. As someone who applied Andover, Exeter, and St. Pauls and was accepted to all three and researched each one substantially, I am in complete agreement with you that all of the tier1 preps offer fantastic communities and educations. There's less of an emphasis on APs, but many students still take a ton of them.

It is a foolish thing to go to a prep school to get a better chance of Ivy admissions because that's just not how it works. You still need to be at the top of the heap first of all; attendance at a prep definitely does not imply admission to college of choice. You only increase your chances if you excel at the school...if you do badly then your chances are almost nil. Middle of the pack kids (in terms of GPA) at Andover have almost a zero percent chance of getting into HYP.

A sizable chunk of prep school kids are full-aid recipients (Exeter and Andover are need-blind in fact). There are plenty of programs aimed at recruiting inner city talent. I would be wrong to say that the schools do not have students who are extremely rich, but it's not a big deal.

You're also right about the classes. I'm taking things like Existentialism and Gothic Poetry next year, stuff that you'd never find on most high schools' course of study. It's a totally different experience academically.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:29 pm: Edit

Justice is completely correct. As a top prep school parent, I warned my D that if she had her heart set on an ivy, she should choose our local public HS. Far fewer kids applying to them. But most kids are not at these schools to get into ivys, they are there because they are ready for an unbelievable education four years early! Many of these schools have higher endowments than several ivys. Many find prep school their best education years, not college or grad school.

By Hawaii2233 (Hawaii2233) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:42 pm: Edit

My failure to immediately identify the subject of "best high schools" as referring to private schools foremostly rather than public is emblematic of the segragated and caste-like system that the United States operates under. I forget that private schools even exist, for there is no possible way that my parents could afford them. All public schools are roughly the same. I have attended five different ones in only three years. It disgusts me that the only way to truly get an education which others will view as quality is through a system which bears more in relation and resemblance to the old caste system of India and the aristocracy of England that here in a nation that purports to be the shining example of an open and equal society. The saddest thing is that the vast majority of parents who send their children to these bastions of perpetual inequality resent the notion that a dollar more of their taxes be paid to fund the educational system of the class they unfairly profit from and rather leave them to fend for themselves, even though they live in affluence and with education only because of wealth inherited luckily rather than a unique possesion of any marketable or superior ability of their own. All private schools, including universities, should be eliminated and run by the state.

I'm from Hawaii, the place with the worst public schools in the nation but the best private schools around (Iolani, Mid-Pac...) No wonder why the state is essentially practically run by a one-party government of the Democrats, and the state's social programs rivaling in socialism to that of Scandinavia. I don't really agree with all that I wrote, but I feel many of the people who do attend private schools live in a bubble unaware of the resentment and inequality they cause.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:50 pm: Edit

Enarang's list does include public schools as does any comprehensive list of top US high schools. Also note that at the top prep schools, almost 50% of students receive financial aid today. So Hawaii, if you are smart and ambitious, use the above list and start applying! It's not a perfect world, but opportunities really are there.

By Cfunkexonian (Cfunkexonian) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:08 am: Edit

Hi Justice,
Yeah, what I meant was that not all classes at Andover are lecture style. I remember touring the campus and seeing a lot of traditional classrooms (desks arrayed in rows and columns) especially in the maths and sciences.
But right, I concur with what you said. Being 'middle of the pack" at Exeter is pretty much 'college admissions suicide" if you're shooting for HYPSM, unless there are extenuating circumstances like minority or legacy status.
In a thread like this, I suppose many people who read this and see some of the stats listed in prior entries are considering switching to prep schools, because more people go to harvard or something like that. The fact of the matter is, unless you can excel (be in the top third at the very very least) at schools like Exeter and Andover, your prospects at getting into an ivy are slim to zero.
I know brilliant students at school who would easily rise to the top of their class at many other high schools. But because they're in a more competitive environment with a hand-selected group of students, their academics are mediocre and their chances at HYP diminish accordingly.
BUT, these same students would not trade this experience for anything. Exeter is a wonderful community not because 20 kids go to Harvard every year, but because of the vast pool of opportunity that it affords, because of the experiences and lifelong connections that it forges. If you're thinkiing about going to prep school just for college, you should honestly think again. You go to Exeter/Andover for the experience, not to get into Harvard. Because in fact, at Exeter at least, you need a near 11.0 gpa (equivalent to a 4.0) plus astounding extracurriculars to get into Harvard. And by astounding I don't mean 'president of model UN' or 'first violin', I mean first place worldwide in the international mathematics olympiad, or an internationally renowned concert pianist.
With that said, in no way am I trying to discourage anyone from applying to prep schoo. The experiences and friendships made here are irreplaceable and it is more than worth the hefty tuition. But if your only motive for applying is to get into a good college, then you should honestly reconsider.
I'm curious though, I know what I just said about Exeter and probably Andover are accurate, but does the same thing hold true for other schools like Stuy or Thomas Jefferson? No two schools are exactly alike and I'm sure there are differences that would bring light to this thread.

By Justice (Justice) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 09:51 am: Edit

Hawaii,

As I said, some of the preps are need-blind. Had you applied from Hawaii, which represents geographical diversity, and had good grades and activities, you would have had an equal chance of getting into a school like Andover or Exeter as some blue-blooded aristocrat from NYC whose parents could potentially donate a lot of money. When a school has 40% on aid (not much, I admit, compared to Ivy league schools), it says something. I can't speak for your Hawaiian schools, but the preps have open admissions.

We pay taxes toward an educational system that we do not attend. We have no problem with this as we see it is our duty, but it is absurd to say that because we may be richer than some that we should pay a lot for services that we do not receive. Charity is one thing, but it's a bit annoying to be forced to pay for things that you don't get. It's like being forced to buy a house and then never living in it and just letting it sit there empty, while each month paying property tax. Do you think that is fair?

By Nyugrad (Nyugrad) on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:43 pm: Edit

As far as Exeter, Andover, and Sty students getting into HYP, don't forget one very important word. LEGACY.

By Cfunkexonian (Cfunkexonian) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 02:19 am: Edit

That is far from being true. There are a fair number of HYPS legacies at Exeter, but usually their academics are not at the HYPS tier. For example, of the 10 students (that i know of, at least) who are going to harvard next year, none of them are legacies. Were there many harvard legacies in the senior class that year? Of course, but to be even considered at HYPS at a place like Exeter, you need to truly be oustanding, and legacy status is only secondary after a student's ability has first been proven.

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 02:35 am: Edit

As the above poster says, being a legacy hardly makes it a sure things. The days of being to the manor born are over for all but a very few super wealthy development candidates.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 04:52 am: Edit

The Battle is almost won here and we're only 1 mile from the sun. You know the earth is one course to hit the sun at some point..

By Oasis (Oasis) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 09:35 am: Edit

Thomas Jefferson, Andover, Exeter, Choate, Roxbury Latin; not in a particular order though.

By Enarang (Enarang) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:11 am: Edit

You want to hear a nice legacy story. There was a kid he went to a top prep scool in CT. His father went to Stanford. This kid graduated only with honors when his peers who graduated with high honors made it into places such as Brown and Johns Hopkins etc... Other regular honors students went to good school but lets just say not comparable to Stanford. Anyway his father made significnat donations as he was a VERY successful man on Wall Stret and achieved worldwide recognition for some formula he created and sold to many Wall Street companies.


Guess what he was accepted.

By Pimpdaddy (Pimpdaddy) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 06:44 pm: Edit

"As far as Exeter, Andover, and Sty students getting into HYP, don't forget one very important word. LEGACY. "

Wtf are you talking about, Stuy is a public school, there arent a significant number of legacies here...

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 08:03 pm: Edit

http://www.electricprint.com/edu4/classes/readings/edu-eliteschools.htm

By Kepler797 (Kepler797) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:34 pm: Edit

taft, andover, and exeter are known to be the best, but really who cares? It matters how well you do at your high school. If you are harvard or yale quality, you can prove that anywhere if you try hard enough.

By Stargal (Stargal) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

agree with Kepler797

By Markm2004 (Markm2004) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 02:58 am: Edit

I would never pay $30,000 on a high school education for my kid. Go to any local public high school and work with it. Life isn't about an ivy league, I rather save the $30,000 and spend it elsewhere.

By Nyugrad (Nyugrad) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:05 am: Edit

I did not mean to say that legacy status is an end all. What I meant was that the combination of legacy status and the attendance at the fine high schools named above leads to a win-win situation.
Pimpdaddy, I am personally aware of a very large number of legacies coming from Stuy. I do not mean to undermine the rigorous course of study there-I do have a very good knowledge of it- however, the combination of a Stuy education and a legacy status certainly avails some to HYP admission that may otherwise not occur. Even in medical school admission a Stuy education may be noticed.

By Gpeso (Gpeso) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 03:03 am: Edit

Fullerton CA Has 2 of it's 3 public schools in the top 100

By Roh (Roh) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 04:01 am: Edit

Acalanes School District ranked #2 in california.
go campo!

By Zymosan2004 (Zymosan2004) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Thomas Jefferson is definitely the top public highschool in the nation for science and technology. Its students are offered the best environment to study (the school has a CRAY super computer). In addition, the student statistics are far superior than any other highschool. The class of 2004 had the record number of National Merit Semi-Finalists-over 140. On average each student takes about six AP classes. On average, over 90% of the scores on all except one of the AP tests given in the school are three or above. (by the way, Jefferson gives the most AP tests) The school excells in math competitions, science bowls, robotics competitions. The students' average SAT I score is around 1480. With a student body of 1700 students, this is indeed very impressive.

However, Jefferson is not only a high tech school. The school also offers very good liberal arts programs. In addition, the school's soccer team is the district champion. TJ also has very strong crew, tennis, track, swim and dive teams to name a few.

In the nation, some private high schools do have slightly better scores, however, they are private.
Jefferson is one of the best public high school in the nation.

By Crazylicious (Crazylicious) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 11:02 pm: Edit

kepler797: Taft? Taft..where? I know of a Taft closeby but I don't think it's a top hs...?

By Marines4life (Marines4life) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 11:17 pm: Edit

wow, i love how the you guys only mention the Ivy's and colleges like that, i hope you realize that the military academies are better than most of those schools (Yale,MIT, and Princeton are exceptions)and it's one place not filled with all you private school nerds and geeks, i'm sure if my whole life revolved around studying, i'd have 1550 SAT's and a 4.7 GPA, no offense

By Kinglin2 (Kinglin2) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 12:37 am: Edit

Francis Howell, we always have people going to ivy's and top publics.... Well I wouldnt say it's top but its good.

By Kinglin2 (Kinglin2) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 12:43 am: Edit

http://www.csh.k12.ny.us/highschool/data/TheTopHighSchools.htm

By Pinkflamingo (Pinkflamingo) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 02:04 am: Edit

Groton School
class of 2004:90
class of 2004 median sat:1410
class of 2004 matric.:
Harvard:5
Yale:4
Princeton:4
Cornell:5
Brown:3
Columbia:1
Penn:1
Oxford:3
Cambridge:1
Stanford:2
UVA:7
Wellesly:3
etc.

By Tdizzo (Tdizzo) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:24 pm: Edit

All about Berkeley High School in California...
actually teaches real life experiences instead of being surrounded by people exactly like you because you havn't truly learned anything unless you can do it with kids running up and down the halls throwing card board boxes over people's heads; hitting them a couple could times and rtunning away...*sigh*...maybe things have changed since I've been there but it sure made one hell of a application essay

By Justice (Justice) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 06:24 pm: Edit

I'm sure a lot of kids from those stated schools also go to USNA and West Point. However, I think it's obvious that having a lot of kids go to military academies is far more indicative of the athletic ability of a school than of its overall strength.
And in case you are ignorant, prep schools are extremely athletic on all counts. Ever wonder why so manypro athletes drafted out of high school went to a prep (garnett, lebron, everyone)? Why people say "prep to pros" on TV and not "high school to pros"? Considering that virtually all prep schools have serious recruiting procedures every year, and that prep schools have PG programs that attract athletes capable of playing on a collegiate level...well you can make the conclusion.

By Tdizzo (Tdizzo) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 06:51 pm: Edit

**" think it's obvious that having a lot of kids go to military academies is far more indicative of the athletic ability of a school than of its overall strength"**

Justice...when was the last time you watched military academies sports? No one goes to military academies anymore if they are a serious athlete, especially one with pro potential. The military academies barely manage to field competitive teams anymore. Yes, there are some exceptions (Air Force made a particualaryly strong showing last year in basketball, etc..) but your assertion that prep schools send so many students to military schools is because of athletics is ridicualous. IF anything it is the often strong military tradition of prep schools that leads to this connection.

By Thereishope (Thereishope) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 07:06 pm: Edit

the best school in Canada

this is the states for class of 08
Brown
Brown
Brown
Brown
Brown
Brown
Brown
Brown
Brown
Brown [ED]
Brown [ED]
Brown [ED]
Columbia A/S
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia A/S [ED]
Columbia SEAS
Columbia SEAS [ED]
Columbia SEAS [ED]
Columbia SEAS [ED]
Columbia SEAS [ED]
Columbia SEAS [ED]
Cornell A/S
Cornell A/S
Cornell A/S
Cornell A/S [ED]
Cornell A/S [ED]
Cornell A/S [ED]
Cornell AAP [ED]
Cornell ALS [ED]
Cornell ALS [ED]
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering
Cornell Engineering [ED]
Cornell Engineering [ED]
Cornell Engineering [ED]
Cornell Engineering [ED]
Cornell H.E
Cornell ILR
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth
Dartmouth [ED]
Dartmouth [ED]
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
Harvard [ED]
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT
MIT [ED]
Princeton
Princeton
Princeton
Princeton
Princeton [ED]
Princeton [ED]
Stanford
Stanford
Stanford [ED]
Stanford [ED]
Stanford [ED]
U of Penn
U of Penn
U of Penn
U of Penn [ED]
U of Penn [ED]
U of Penn [ED]
U of Penn [ED]

Yale
Yale
Yale
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]
Yale [ED]

By Justice (Justice) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Sorry for my inclarity. I was simply responding to Marines4life's thought that prep school students must all be those who study all day and don't do sports.

By Ratserutuf (Ratserutuf) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 08:18 pm: Edit

new trier or northside college prep in illinois

By Mom101 (Mom101) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 08:40 pm: Edit

What's the school in Canada?

By Marlgirl (Marlgirl) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 11:14 am: Edit

There's more to a school than simply stats about admissions, prizes one, etc. The best school in the nation would have to have certain intangible features that made it stand out, not just great facilities. Also, remember that at top preps one is probably more likely to find legacies at the top schools which could affect admission.

By Exonian04 (Exonian04) on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 01:33 pm: Edit

About legacies...

It is important to differentiate between excellent students who are legacies and mediocre ones.
I know at Exeter, the Ivy legacy kids were generally good students. From my friends who live in NYC, I have heard that the issue of legacy is much more prevalent at the NYC privates.

Exeter has a more competitive admissions process that is not influenced substantially by legacy status. Prep school alumni pools are much smaller than college ones and that means that few students apply to Exeter as legacies. The end result of this competitve process is a student body that was selected according to merit.

I can't say this is as true for other private schools, such as the NYC privates.

In short, the top new england prep schools produce talented kids that would be accepted regardless of legacy status. As cfunkexonian said earlier, not one of the students that were accepted at Harvard were legacies. The claim that "oh they're all legacy kids" has little basis in fact, at least at Exeter.


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