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We are too friends who are completely obsessed with college. It's all we care about. It's all we've thought about for months. Yes we are losers. We have had similar admissions results so far, and we feel like failures. We want to know what everyone else thinks about our chances at our other schools. So far we have both been saddled with the heartbreak of being Denied at Northwestern and waitlisted at Wash U. Ben got deferred at Harvard early and Brewster got denied at Yale early. We are dyting to hear back from out other mutual: Duke, Penn, Emory.
Here are our stats and lists:
Ben:
730 V 800 M
777 Math IIC/700 Writing/680 Chem
3.5 GPA
National Crew
State Chess
Community Service
Drama
School Newspaper
Good Essays
Good Recs

Harvard Early DEF
Penn
Cornell
Duke
WUSTL WL
Tufts
Emory
BU A
U of Washington A
Northwestern D
Michigan A
Wisconson A
USC A
Brandeis A

Brewster:
800 V 790 M
800 Writing 780 Math IIC 780 Chem
3.5 GPA
Four Sport Varisty Athlete
Drama
Employment
Good Essays
Decent Recs

Yale Early D
Penn
Brown
Duke
Georgetown
Northwestern D
WUSTL WL
Emory
Johns Hopkins
Trinity (CT) A
Macalester A
Pomona
Claremont McKenna
U of Washington A


We both attend an elite private high school that has been called the best on the West Coast. Our class has 116 students and rank and gpa are not released to colleges. We had two students accepted to princeton, one to harvard, one to dartmouth, one to columbia, two to brown, three to stanford during early round.

We are panicked about college and our chances at our remianing schools. Please tell us what you think. Any feedback is much appreciated. We want as many comments as possible. Can we get in at our remaining colleges. We've already been disappointed so much. Please Help!!

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 08:46 am: Edit

Is this a joke?

By Deeny1414 (Deeny1414) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 08:53 am: Edit

I'd assume it's a joke because you can't get a 777...

By Matth (Matth) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 09:37 am: Edit

Even if it's not a joke, it's a bit melodramatic. Both of you have been accepted at more than one school, which you supposedly would be happy at, considering you applied there. Most of your other schools are reaches. They're reaches for everyone, especially this year. Be happy you have some choices already.

One thing about cc I find so interesting is that EVERYONE's high school is a "top" or "best" school. It makes me laugh how so many people believe this.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:27 am: Edit

Ben & Brewster: your GPAs and curriculum (APs, etc.) are the determining factor in all of these cases. I'd say 3.5 means no ivy on your walls; ditto Duke & G-town. Maybe Emory for the geo distribution factor. If I had to guess, Ben you'll probably end up at Tufts (but could be WL there) or Michigan -- Brewster at Pomona or Trinity. Be sure to let us know what happens. It's been a tough year all around as the bar has been raised almost dispropriately due to the sheer volume of overly qualified applicants; this year, match schools have become reaches. It'll be amazing to see what happens next year when the bar will be raised even higher. Be glad you got into the schools you did when you did -- because next year you wouldn't get in.

By Evrythingonebad (Evrythingonebad) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:28 am: Edit

angryseniors, do you attend polytechnic or harvard-westlake?

By Tunan_Fish (Tunan_Fish) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

I'd be curious to know what school you're talking about. I think that two got into Princeton from Westlake this year (I got into Princeton from Chadwick).

By Najy (Najy) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 12:35 pm: Edit

ummm...angryseniors...explain this:

"Our class has 116 students and rank and gpa are not released to colleges. "


Your GPA isn't released to colleges?

By Woogiewilly25 (Woogiewilly25) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Ya how does that work? not to mention 3.5 gpa is a little low for some of those colleges...

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 02:31 pm: Edit

First of all, Ben got a 770 on the Math SAT II. That was a typo. Secondly, this was not a joke, it was intentionally overly melodramtic to elicit more of a response.
Our school computes a GPA for its own purposes but does not relsease the GPA or a rank to colleges. Therefore colleges are left to calculate the GPA as they see fit and are unaware of our class rank. Our school does this to increase our chances at individual schools and emphsaizze the difficulty of the curriculum.
FYI: Our grading is exceptionally difficult and most colleges understand that. Thhe following stats are from non minority, non athlete, non legacy applicants. Last year, we had two students accepted at Amherst with 3.6, Student with 3.4 and one with 3.6 accepted at Brown. 3.4, 3.6, 3. accepeted at U of Chicago, 3.6 at Columbia, 3.6 at Cornell, 3.5 at Dartmouth, 3.4 and 3.6 at Georgetown, 3.6 at Harvard, 3.6 at Hopkins, 3.6, 3.4, 3.4 at Northwestern, 3.5, 3.5, 3.6, 3.6 at Penn (We have an especially good relationship with Penn, in total we sent 9 kids there last year.) 3.6, 3.3, 3.4, 3.3 at Pomona. 3.6 at Stanford, 3.5 Swarthmore, 3.4 Wash U 3.5 Williams, 3.4 Yale

Collegeparent- Thanks so much for that greatr post. That's exactly the type of the response we were hopong to receive (candor, projections, etc)

By Wutdeh (Wutdeh) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 03:12 pm: Edit

don't fret. You guys will get in somewhere good.

By Zwieback0 (Zwieback0) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 03:20 pm: Edit

too = two.

You shouldn't go to college.

By Useatoothbrush (Useatoothbrush) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 03:36 pm: Edit

Lakeside...psschaw. I mock your expensive high school education and lacrosse team! But that's just my local pride, it's beside the point.

You seem to be approaching this whole process from the point of view that you deserve to be accepted to these top colleges based on what you have achieved. Sure, you've got the tough school and the high test scores and the obligatory fantastic ECs...what do YOU have to offer the schools? Did you give them a compelling reason why in the sea of applicants who all look pretty much alike from a distance that they should pick you out? Were your essays interesting and showed the kind of person you are, or were they just "good"? Did you show personality or just that you are good students who don't cause trouble? If you go through this believing that you deserve something from these schools based on all you have worked for and achieved, no matter how fantastic, you're mistaken. The only thing you can do is submit your application and hope you have what they are looking for. Perhaps this year, in whatever context you showed yourselves, you might not be particularly attractive to Northwestern or Yale or Harvard or WUStL. Is it your fault? No. It's not your fault that you can't predict what colleges are looking for at any particular time. Perhaps you could have made your applications stronger in other ways, but that's over with and done and there's no point in dwelling on anything like that. All you can do now is wait and hope.

That said, I think that certainly the other schools you all have not heard from yet will have good things to say and decide that you are the kinds of students they would like. Which ones I don't know, because I'm not really knowledgeable about any of those schools. Once you do get decisions, though, don't try to make your decisions based on prestige or anything. I'm getting that sense that you think you should get into the so-called "best" schools and that something has gone utterly wrong. Instead of getting angry or depressed about where you have been denied, why not focus on where you've been accepted? The UW, Mich, Wisconsin, USC, Brandeis, Trinity, Macalester...all places people have been happy at and had no regrets about attending. You could do yourselves a favor and start seriously thinking about attending those schools instead of just having thrown an application at them without really caring about anything but another acceptance to chalk up.

Best of luck.

By Summoner (Summoner) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 03:38 pm: Edit

i have a few friends like you that are getting worried about college. however, they have low gpas and test scores, and applied to the very best schools in the country.

i told them to apply to some lower schools, but they didn't listen and now they're receiving rejections. i don't know if i should say "i told you so" or feel sorry for them.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 04:10 pm: Edit

To clarify, neither of us feel in anyway entitled to attend the so called top schools. Both of us would be happy to go to the schools we have already got into, o else we wouldn't have applied. We would just like to get into some of those schools because they are some of our top choices, not because of prestige(we are not that superficial) We understand that we can't get in everywhere but at the same time no one likes to get recjected. We're not actually that worrired we're just having fun obsessing.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Our school does this to increase our chances at individual schools and emphsaizze the difficulty of the curriculum.

In theory, your school SHOULD be commended for using an honorable system. The biggest problem is that 99.9% of the HS schools in the country use systems that allow cynical manipulation and rampant grade inflation. The comment: "3.6 ... no Ivies for you" is telling.

However, the biggest problem won;t be with the top 25 schools in the country but with the remaining 99.xx% of the country, where your grade and transcripts are transcribed onto the appplication folder by a glorified monkey.

The admission process of 2005 -and thereafter- will be drastically different. The key to the game will be to get the highest GPA, and easier schools and programs with inflated grades will rule as never before. Very sad but very true!

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Thanks Xiggi for that lucid description of high school students liek us. At our school no ne can possibly achieve the 4.5w GPA's that many applicants boast. Our school is trying to offer us the best possible high school education and preparation for college, but because of colelges tendency to look so intently at GPA it hurts our chances at getting in. Hopefully, our superior preparation will allow us to suceed wherever we get in, and sacrificing grades fro learning will ultimately be in our best interest.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 06:07 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 06:07 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 06:07 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Cybernetica (Cybernetica) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 06:23 pm: Edit

lol...

Is it just me or does anyone else sense a hint of obnoxiousness...

You remind me of Lewis Carrol's evil twins...



-S

By Napoleoncomplex (Napoleoncomplex) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Hah--Brew and Ben! Didn't expect to see YOU here.

Post that letter you sent to Yale!

By Mjl86 (Mjl86) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 07:30 pm: Edit

you guys go to lakeside, wow i went there in middle school. what a small world

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

where do you go now and what grade are you in? maybe we know you.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 11:22 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 02:39 am: Edit

BUMP

By Mjl86 (Mjl86) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 09:49 am: Edit

i live in maine my name is max. i lived in bellevue

By Kinshasa (Kinshasa) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 10:01 am: Edit

"The admission process of 2005 -and thereafter- will be drastically different. The key to the game will be to get the highest GPA, and easier schools and programs with inflated grades will rule as never before. Very sad but very true!"

Xiggi, what's your source?

By Evrythingonebad (Evrythingonebad) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 01:24 pm: Edit

angryseniors, do you attend polytechnic or harvard-westlake?

By Mjl86 (Mjl86) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 03:36 pm: Edit

they attend lakeside... in seattle, washington

By Chibiutena (Chibiutena) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

This year is considered to be one of the most difficult. Its like WOW. I never thought so many of my friends would be rejected from the ivies. We attend one of hte best skus in chicago (academic-wise at least) and our valedictorian has every credential. 1st gen. something like a 4.8 GPA, 1600 SAT and she still got rejected from several schools. So in my opinion almost anything goes...

Good luck.

By Jennyzsong (Jennyzsong) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 06:38 pm: Edit

yeah you guys do sound a little evil/zombie-like, with the over use of 'we'... 'we are two seniors'...we blah blah blah... it's scary!

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 09:11 pm: Edit

Both got into Emory!!! Hooray. Brewster got waitlisted at Georgetown. Anyone have waitlist stats on Georgetown.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 09:23 pm: Edit

Waitlists are polite rejections, saying you were qualified but we didn't have room. Sorry.

As for Emory, will the degree travel beyond Atlanta to Seattle? Many consider it a Southern university will little influence beyond Texas to the west and Virginia to the north. Beyond those borders, it competes with national (and highly regarded regional) schools.

It's something to think about.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 10:47 pm: Edit

Ben got waitlisted at Tufts. We both hear back from Duke tomorrow, but aren't expecting to get in.

Ben has yet to hear from: Harvard (legacy), Penn (1st choice), Cornell, and Duke.

Brewster has yet to hear from: Claremont McKenna, Pomona, Penn, Duke, Brown, and John Hopkins.

What are your thoughts on where we will get in?

By Neo (Neo) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 10:53 pm: Edit

Haha...can't you guys get separate accounts? It sounds like you've got two heads or something...

"What are your thoughts on where we will get in?" HAHAHAHA It just sounds like you're joined at the hip....haha...

*Here's a skit I made for you guys.*

Angryseniors: Don't make fun of us.

Neo: But you sound like zombies.

Angryseniors: We are very displeased.

Neo: Which one of you is smarter?

Angryseniors: We are equally intelligent.

Neo: Umm...I'm getting out of here...

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Ben & Brewster, I guess I've called it right so far. As I said above: For Ben, Michigan's looking good. Brewster, probably Trinity -- and maybe Pomona.

The only reason to go to Emory is if you two have got to stay together. Otherwise, the team splits up.

By Chasgoose (Chasgoose) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 11:50 pm: Edit

Collegeparent, I don't think you understand that their GPAs are very deflated compared to the rest of the country. Their 3.5s were probably hard-earned and if they went to a public school or an easier private school they would definitely be getting something in the 3.8 to 4.0 range. I attend a school very similar to the one they are describing (a small independant private school, but in AZ not WA) with the same level of grade deflation (unweighted grades, only one person has graduated with a 4.0 in the past ten years, etc.) and usually a 3.5 will prevent the upper Ivies, but it doesn't rule out the lower ones and certainly doesn't rule out places like Georgetown, Northwestern, and Tufts. Here are my predictions for the places you have yet to hear from based on what happened last year at my school. (D= Deny/Waitlist, A= Accept, A/D= Borderline)

Ben: Harvard D, Penn A/D, Cornell A, Duke A/D

Brewster: Claremont McKenna A, Pomona D, Penn A, Duke A/D, Brown D, Johns Hopkins A (last year everyone who applied from my school was accepted including regular white kids with 3.1-3.3 and much lower SATs).

By U2rules (U2rules) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 12:07 am: Edit

are you guys gay?

By Jwagoner (Jwagoner) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 12:19 am: Edit

thank you chasgoose for boosting my faith that I have a chance to get into the last two schools I'm waiting on. My sat scores were lower and my gpa was a 3.5 uw. I hope the admissions people look beyond the numbers to see that I'm an ambitious girl. I have a ton of ec's (traveled to Europe, newspaper, student intern at tv station, my own business, and more!) plus I've been told by many of my English teachers that I'm an excellent writer. But, I'm a white female from WV. I applied to two schools out in California - which I'm sure has made the ordeal even harder for me. I've already been rejected to a school that seemed to accept students with my average.

On top of all this, after I graduated from hs, I was informed I had a rare disease in my bone which would require surgery. My doctor ordered no physical activity whatsoever (from the date of the appointment to june of this year) so I was unable to attend college which means this is my second time dealing with the rejections. I hope they take it into consideration as I feel embarassed that I was unable to participate in activities during my hiatus from college.

This is a very frustrating time for all of us. I hope that everyone finds their own path that they were truly meant to follow. Even if the school may not be your top choice college, there may be a reason why you weren't meant to attend that university/college.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 01:35 am: Edit

Here is the full update for Ben:

Accepted:
University of Washington
University of Wisconsin
University of Michigan
Brandeis
USC
Boston University
Emory

Waitlisted:
Tufts
Washington University in St. Louis

Denied:
Northwestern

Yet to hear from:
Harvard
Penn
Duke
Cornell

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 01:38 am: Edit

Also, we are not gay

By Bellevueteen (Bellevueteen) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 02:18 am: Edit

Whoa I go to Newport!

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 05:46 am: Edit

Gotta disagree with you Chasgoose. I understand the GPA situation and who/what were the final numbers and who compiled them at each college. Schools that allow colleges to determine GPAs are taking a chance; I like the unweighted approach that most schools take of using the core courses as the determinants, with electives at 1/2 being used to figure the number. Be that as it may, you also cannot make determinations of who gets into what colleges based on last year's numbers and stats -- all of that changed this year! The bar has been raised exceptionally because of the sheer volume of applicants (one estimate is 200,000 over the previous year nationwide!). Therefore, your arguement is moot.

Ben & Brewster, I don't think Ivy is in your future, based on the WLs and rejections. Maybe graduate school. In the meantime, I stick with my predictions, but think that Brewster may get into Claremont McKenna but will go to Trinity.

The reason for my reasoning: from what I'm hearing, most of the Ivies took over their quotas during ED and are WLing most of their candidates -- it's exactly what WUSTL is doing since they accepted well over their quota of freshmen last year and is why they're WLing practically everyone this year until they can get it sorted out in mid-May.

By Mjl86 (Mjl86) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 08:20 am: Edit

bellevueteen" woah i know that school in bellevue. anyways bellevue high school is way better it is ranked higher according to newsweek... btw i went there for a couple of years before i moved.

By Dadx (Dadx) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 08:26 am: Edit

Collegeparent

"unweighted approach that most schools take with electives going in at one half"????

While I would suppose that some schools do that, I have never seen anyone on his board speak of a system like that.

On the bar being raised nationally, well, the jury is out, I would say. Some schools are up. THe IVYs seem flat overall, Michigan is down 20%, while NWestern is up by 1000 applicants. The SAT statistic show 78,000 more SAT test takers this year. Maybe a few more take the act--don't know.

NW seems like it was extremely tough this year.

In general, I have some sympathy for the angryseniors. I am beginning to think that our school is in the same boat. The problem that we create is that we are stingy with the grades, but we then compress everyone into a tight range-- just at a lower level than most schools do. That way we can brag that we don't have grade inflation. However, what ends up happening is that you send your kids into the fray with a "lower" average than most other schools, which ends up sinking (handicapping) the kids below the top 5% or so. Everyone else with high scores and a more modest average looks like a slacker. At a private school where you might be able to make a credible argument that your population is different from most school, well, perhaps you can make this system work. At a public school with hundreds of kids, well, you are going to get hammered.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 04:51 pm: Edit

BUMP

By H0neymoon (H0neymoon) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit

just wait and see... and in the meantime... try to get a life outside of college applications. it'll benefit you in the future.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Brewster got waitlisted at Claremont McKenna. Heartbroken. Collegeparent- you were right we are absolutely unqualified. Frankly, we definitely overapplied to schools. Well nothing to do now. We're both just sad.

By Najy (Najy) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 09:53 pm: Edit

lol u2rules..i was going to ask if they were gay, but then i read your post.

By Najy (Najy) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 09:53 pm: Edit

double post

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 10:02 pm: Edit

B&B -- what happened with Duke? Could be awhile; am guessing the phone lines were pretty well jammed.

By Silvertree115 (Silvertree115) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Hey, Brewster of the Angryseniors, I'm feeling ya with CMC. I was above the average SAT/GPA too. Maybe it was GPA? (only 3.7)

By Everet (Everet) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I've heard of lakeside and newport. I do some club activities and go to conventions that some people from there come. I go to a public inner city high school and I think it's perfectly fine.

By Everet (Everet) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I've heard of lakeside and newport. I do some club activities and go to conventions that some people from there come. I go to a public inner city high school and I think it's perfectly fine.

By Meowmeow (Meowmeow) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Yeah I was waitlisted at CMC...I thought I was pretty well-qualified, but college admissions have gotten pretty crazy.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 11:58 pm: Edit

We couldn't hear from Duke, because they couldn't get all the decisions posted. So we'll find out tomorrow at 4pm pacific. The waiting is awful, but at this point we have pretty much realized there is no way we are going to get in.

By Marzipan (Marzipan) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 12:27 am: Edit

As someone who went to one of these competetive private schools (nobody got a 4.0, and on top of that there were never an AP or advanced classes-- actually better, because nobody tried to teach us only what was on the test), and now goes to a gigantic public school where the top 25% of the class graduates with averages over 100, I can safely say that in a real world (non-elitist) context, these small, self-involved schools screw us over. The curriculum may be amazing, but when looked at in more bureaucratic admissions programs, the numbers don't add up. Grade inflation (rampant at my current school) isn't the answer either. Somebody needs to set some real standards for these things, but in the absence of that, disregarding GPAs entirely makes me feel much better.

By Silvertree115 (Silvertree115) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 12:41 am: Edit

er, meant above average SAT/*ACT*, not GPA a few posts above

By Asimplemind (Asimplemind) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Good luck to you two. DON'T give up hope. You did not overapply.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 01:59 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Got into Pomona. Waitlisted at Claremont. How did that happen? Decided to apply to Pomona the day that app was due. Recs and ssr were late. Didn't do "optional" supplementary essay, how did I get in?

By Bmurry (Bmurry) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Congrats anyway. Maybe you will be chirping around Pomona this fall!

By Fiza (Fiza) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 05:09 pm: Edit

People are getting rejected to places that shouldve been easy ins left and right this year. A LOT (think thousands to millions) of hearts are being broken when people realize they've been rejected and waitlisted. Then theres those who got in but cant go because they dont have money.

I honestly dont care how fancy-smancy ur highschool is. Just because you go there vs. another average highschool doesnt mean jack. Some people have opportunities others dont.

and stop whinning about ur stupid Yale defferals/rejections. yes it happened to you and like 10,000 other ppl. Get over it. I'm sure they arent as hung up on the prestige of it as you are. Maybe they actually want to attend for the intellectual and educational aspect.

You got into ur safeties. Thats all you can ask for. not ALL the colleges are being randomly "stupid" and rejecting qualified ppl. Some may actually have a reason for the defferal/rejection...

And stop whinning ESPECIALLY cause its not even April 1st yet. You dont know if you got into the other Ivy's.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 06:04 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Susu (Susu) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Question for the disappointed seniors: Maybe I missed this bit of information, but--Did you or did you not take AP classes, and how did you do on the tests? You're both obviously smart and athletic, but did you take the BIG risk and sign up for those dreadfully hard college courses?
and P.S. Don't worry, you're both going to have fun at college and great lives thereafter.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 08:01 pm: Edit

We both got outright denied at Duke. Tear. Collegeparent is incredibly accurate.

By Chibiutena (Chibiutena) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 08:23 pm: Edit

::sigh:: i got rejected from 5 schools...UCLA, UCB, Stanford, Brandeis, U of C

didn't know college admissions would be THIS tough

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 11:50 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Santamariachica (Santamariachica) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 01:12 am: Edit

Angry seniors, I know how you feel. It sucks! I go to an ivy-feeder school (well, after this year, it may be a completely different story) in southern CA, and I lack the rampant GPA inflation as well. I have a long list of dedicated extracurriculars in leadership and the performing arts and all that stuff. Unfortunately, I'm a waitlist girl (especially at three places where I thought had a good chance of getting in, including my first choice school), and the three stupid schools that I have been rejected from are public universities (one UC, two out of state ones), which adore GPA inflation. Sure, I have six options so far, and it's depressing to know that the last two letters I'm waiting for are Cornell and Dartmouth (where at this rate I have no chance of getting in). I love how some people say that you are whining, but I disagree because they do not know how it feels. It's discouraging to know that you could kick-butt at any of those ivy-league and other elite schools after working so hard at a school, which operates on a college level.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 01:36 am: Edit

Santamaria- where specifically did you apply? What have the results been?

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 04:09 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Charliekang (Charliekang) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 04:31 pm: Edit

"Our school does this to increase our chances at individual schools and emphsaizze the difficulty of the curriculum.

In theory, your school SHOULD be commended for using an honorable system. The biggest problem is that 99.9% of the HS schools in the country use systems that allow cynical manipulation and rampant grade inflation. The comment: "3.6 ... no Ivies for you" is telling.

However, the biggest problem won;t be with the top 25 schools in the country but with the remaining 99.xx% of the country, where your grade and transcripts are transcribed onto the appplication folder by a glorified monkey.

The admission process of 2005 -and thereafter- will be drastically different. The key to the game will be to get the highest GPA, and easier schools and programs with inflated grades will rule as never before. Very sad but very true!"


So I guess, according to you, everybody from the top ivy league feeder schools (andover, deerfield, exeter, etc.) will be denied admission starting in 2005 because of low gpas. There is a reason why theses schools dont inflate their grades and still are the top feeder schools for the top colleges in the nation. These schools grade fairly (and colleges know it) and colleges will always take that into consideration.

p.s. a 3.6 gpa at exeter,choate, or andover will make you a top competitor for any top school in the nation.

By Gianscolere (Gianscolere) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 04:40 pm: Edit

charliekang-

the comment to which you made a reference mentions that "the biggest problem won't be with the top 25 schools in the country but with the remaining 99.xx% of the country, where your grade and transcripts are transcribed onto the application folder by a glorified monkey."

xiggi referred to colleges whose admissions policies involve simply ranking all applicants by GPA and test score, while undermining or even excluding other factors like essays and teacher recs. xiggi made a very valid point.

By Emyh (Emyh) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Your initial post is a little melodramatic.

The admissions process is just really a crapshoot anyways.

By Danderson (Danderson) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 01:13 am: Edit

Hey, I used to go to Overlake (Lakeside's rival) and now I'm at Polytechnic in Pasadena. It REALLY is a small world.

Here are my stats by the way:
GPA: 3.8
SAT: 1580
SAT II: 740, 760, 780
Good recs I assume, mediocre essays and EC's

Accepted: Berkeley, NYU, U of Chicago, Northwestern, Tulane
Waitlisted: Tufts
Denied: Stanford, Columbia
Have yet to hear from Wesleyan.

Good luck everyone!

By War77 (War77) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 03:49 am: Edit

HAH! Pasadena Polytechnic eh?

What happened in the championship football game? Sorry a little school spirit from a Flintridge Prep Rebel O-Lineman... what a sweet game and a glorious POLY CRUSHING! ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha!

Our championship rings come in next week....

By Asimplemind (Asimplemind) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 08:00 am: Edit

well B&B how did you do?

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 01:14 pm: Edit

B&B -- the returns are all in -- que passe?

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 03:38 pm: Edit

Ben got WL at Harvard, WL at Cornell, and WL at Penn.
Brewster got WL at Penn and D at Brown.
The only thing left to hear from is JOhns Hopkins for Brewster, but we are almost sure he will get denied or wl'ed because he did receive the pre-acceptance e-mail. Ben is deciding between Emory, Michigan and Brandeis. Brewster is deciding between Pomona Emory Macalester and Trnity. We would love some feedback on where we should go. As it stands now, we'll probably be sharing a double at Emory next year. We're also both going to be sitting hopefull on the Penn waitlist. Anybody have any idea about our chances there?

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 04:52 pm: Edit

B&B -- this will be brief. Don't get your hopes up about Penn. While it would have been perfect for the two of you, they take few off the WL. And then what if they took one without the other?

Emory: think about two things. First is the comment on the thread about how many Emory students does it take to change a light bulb? One, and he's doing it all by himself but not without having his mother on the other end of his hand-free cell telling him what a good job he's doing and boosting his self-esteem. Second, when you go back to Seattle, will people ask, "Emory, where's that?" In other words, Emory is considered a Southern regional school by most of the country (except the NYC metro area from which Emory draws a good portion of its student body). Also, no major athletic teams, thus no major school spirit on campus -- few if any school gear and stickers seen. Campus is beautiful and rich, with excellent academics (there's no denying that), but go visit there and examine all of it (including talking with the students away from the orchestrated PR events) before committing to it -- and, IMHO, only if you two must be together.

Because you both want to come East so much, I also stand by my original predictions and say that you two will split up but IM each other constantly: Ben from Ann Arbor, Michigan and Brewster from Trinty in Hartford. Both are schools with a lot of emotion and energy and vitality -- and it'll probably be a good thing for you two to get away from each other for a while. But you two will get together often. Christmas vacations will be great back in Seattle and there's always New York City for weekends -- two hours by plane (and airport taxis) from Michigan and two hours by train from Hartford. You guys will love Manhattan!

Keep us posted with what you decide.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 05:01 pm: Edit

SB108085665347972031%2C00.html,http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108085665347972031,00.html#EDU

Check out that article on elite high schools and their placements at elite universities. Our school is discussed.

By Asimplemind (Asimplemind) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Hi B&B
You need to be a subscriber to access the article. I think my S's old HS is there tho, St. Ann's? They got 7 kids into Princeton, 7 Brown, 3 Yale and 3 Harvard EA or ED alone. Saint Ann's gives NO grades so the colleges go on SATs and glowing recommendations alone. I still don't know how they do it tho as the kids are no better really than any other bright kid. Life is not fair and I guess that is a lesson that is good to learn.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Why are you posting together and why do you plan to go to the same college? Friendship is nice, but IMO it's time to learn to fly alone. Based on your unnerving way of posting together here I am wondering whether your extremely close friendship may have hurt your admission chances for the colleges that rejected you.

The top college value independence a greqt deal and also view college as a time for students to explore meeting new people and having new experiences. If anything on your application (GC comments, essays, interviews) indicated that you were applying along with your buddy, that could have deep sixed your applications big time.

To me, the fact that you're considering rooming together indicates a dependency that would not bode well for the very top colleges. Meeting new people is a big part of the college experience there. And if you really want to be around your h.s. friends so much, why not go to a college near home or near your prep school?

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Yes, St. Ann's tops the list. To access the article use login: pigott and password: library

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

We are sure that us being friends did not hurt our admissions chances. There ws no mention of one another in any part of our apps. We applied to the same schools not to go with each other but merely out of coincidence. We are not the type of inseperable friends that you always see together and around each other so much that its bothersome. Our original post we did together while hanging out, because we thought it would be funny to post as a tandem. Since then our posts have been done with one person writing in the second person without consulting with the other person. We are considering going to college togetehr not be with one another but because we both like Emory. Both of us would be just as happy at colegw ithout the other one. Both of us are outgoing and independnt and have tons of other friends. Our dual posts are really more of a joke than a serious psychological problem. Neither of us is stuck in high school we a e both excited for college and the new experiences that will accompany it.

By Clipper (Clipper) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 06:37 pm: Edit

I would like to say I really enjoyed reading this thread. I felt like I was reading a mystery novel and couldn't wait to find out who dunnit in the end. Keep the post going and I will check back to see where you guys end up. BTW - my best friend from hs and I went to the same college (I knew her since 1st grade). We decided NOT to room together and that turned out to be a good thing for me and I think bad for her. She ended up having a druggy roommate and went down that path. I did not and after she started that junk we drifted apart. I still think to this day - what if we had roomed together could I have saved her from her downward spiral? I don't know why I told that story.....

Collegeparent - I loved your analysis of Emory. My D was accepted at W&M, BC honors, Vanderbilt, and Smith but has narrowed her list to Georgetown SFS and UVA Echols. She wants to be an attorney so law school is in her future. (She was rejected from Yale last night after being deferred EA). What is your take on her two choices? Ben and Brewster - I don't mean to hijack your thread. Sorry. It's just that Collegeparent has been so right with helping you guys.

Let me know where you are going you two buddies!!

By Happykid (Happykid) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 07:36 pm: Edit

Go for Brandeis and Trinity. Both great schools and it will be easy (easier, at least) to see each other than with any other combination.

Good luck, guys.

By Asimplemind (Asimplemind) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 07:52 pm: Edit

Dear B & B

There is nothing wrong with going to college with a friend. I hope that you guys have great success where ever you go.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 08:59 pm: Edit

Clipper, to hijack the B&B thread a moment, what a choice your daughter has, but I think she should do this: go to one of the most fabulous campuses on the planet for undergrad (UVa) and then plan to apply to Law School at Georgetown (or she can try Yale again), getting the best of both UVa & G-town -- Charlottesville is bucolic and has to be Eden in the spring, and offers a complete college experience. Georgetown is very urban, very busy and has lost all its greenspaces to the necessary expansions (loss of its athletic fields for new dorms, etc. since not allowed to expand into the District) -- However, the Law School is energetic and vibrant, all the more so because of being in the midst of all those lawyers and politicians in the Capitol. Anyway, those are my thoughts; hope they help. Please let me know. And congratulations to your daughter for having such wonderful choices. BTW, Yale was ridiculous this year, without a doubt the hardest Ivy to get into this year; I think it set a record.

By Clipper (Clipper) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Sorry B&B let me respond to Collegeparent:

The one problem she sees in UVA is that it is our state school and most of her friends are going too and they are also invited into the Echols program. She wanted a different experience - not that she doesn't like her friends (related to B&B's dilemma). I think that is why she is leaning toward Georgetown. We are going to both open houses so she can take a look. Thanks for the nice words about my D - I think she is amazing.

Sorry again B&B - have you made any decisions yet? Please don't be angry at THIS senior (citizen)!

By Rockvillemd (Rockvillemd) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 11:04 pm: Edit

"Emory: think about two things. First is the comment on the thread about how many Emory students does it take to change a light bulb? One, and he's doing it all by himself but not without having his mother on the other end of his hand-free cell telling him what a good job he's doing and boosting his self-esteem. Second, when you go back to Seattle, will people ask, "Emory, where's that?" In other words, Emory is considered a Southern regional school by most of the country (except the NYC metro area from which Emory draws a good portion of its student body). Also, no major athletic teams, thus no major school spirit on campus -- few if any school gear and stickers seen. Campus is beautiful and rich, with excellent academics (there's no denying that), but go visit there and examine all of it (including talking with the students away from the orchestrated PR events) before committing to it -- and, IMHO, only if you two must be together."

Sounds more like (intense) putdowns than "analysis" or advice that B&B are looking for. This must be very difficult for Angryseniors who have already shown some liking for Emory and are trying to make hard choices. Give it some thought.

By Giants (Giants) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Collegeparent, you are telling these two to go visit and see what Emory is really like. Have you actually visited Emory and talked to Emory students, or are you just putting the school down on the basis of what you've read and heard?

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 12:47 am: Edit

I most certainly have been to Emory, Giants -- and I am very familiar with it. And I know and have talked with students and sat in on several classes and spent a good deal of time on campus. Nothing I have said is untrue and matter of fact, the observations are shared by others, if you must know. I was asked for my opinion and advice and I gave it honestly and without bias. Because I pointed out two references (the light bulb joke & its regional influence) doesn't mean that I'm putting it down. You infer too much. While I appreciate your loyalty, I have said nothing about Emory that is meant to dissuade B & B from visiting and deciding for themselves. I think that there are other and better options available to them, IMHO, and I would never be so presumptuous as to make up their minds for them. Afterall, they're the ones going to college. Suffice it to say, truthfully, that if I were to apply to college today as an undergraduate, it would not be to Emory. However, I would give strong consideration to two of the graduate schools: the medical school and Goizueta Business, a rather impressive facility. And as with all things, Giants, isn't this all a matter of personal preference -- and in this case, the one that matters belongs to B & B, not you or I.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

And now to interrupt this thread to hijack for a moment for Clipper, since you've explained the problem she has with UVa, then her only other option is to go to Georgetown. Am sure she'll reach the right decision for her after visiting both schools. If I can point out one thing, high school friends who go off to college together usually find and make other friends since I don't think anyone wants to relive high school again. Isn't that one of the great opportunities that college offers? So, I think that your daughter's worries about being always with her high school friends will fade soon after Orientation. But again, she'll decide after visiting both campuses. How fortunate she is to have such great choices.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 03:18 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 04:00 pm: Edit

Ok, The Last of the Results are in. Brewster got waitlisted at Johns Hopkins. We think we have co-set the record for number of places waitlisted. We were each waitlisted at 5 schools. Apparently, we just weren't quite good enough. Now we have no idea where to go.

By Clipper (Clipper) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 07:48 pm: Edit

Why don't you guys give us a rundown of where you were admitted so we don't have to keep scrolling through the posts. Give us the bottom line. Thanks.

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 08:19 pm: Edit

You got into some great schools. Harvard and Yale are unbelievably selective. There's not a soul out there who can "expect" to get into either of them.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Here's the complete final rundown:
Brewster:
Admitted:
Pomona
Emory
Trinity (CT)
Macalester
University of Washington Honors

Denied:
Yale Early
Northwestern
Duke
Brown

Waitlisted:
Penn
Johns Hopkins
Georgetown
Claremont McKenna
Wash U

Ben:
Accepted:
Boston U
Emory
Michigan
Wisconsin
University of Washington
USC
Brandeis

Denied:
Duke
Northwestern

Waitlisted:
Wash U
Harvard Early (Def)
Penn
Cornell
Tufts

Please respond with feedback, analysis, commentary, or whatever you feel is appropriate.

By Xoxo (Xoxo) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 08:59 pm: Edit

Can you copy or get another link to the WSJ article about elict high schools and their placement into colleges, please? I am having trouble getting it. Thanks

By Idonotcare (Idonotcare) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 10:22 pm: Edit

what is the point of this post again? are u still asking for chances of admission?

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Idonotcare- we are not asking our chances. we are just generally complainging about the way the college proces sis treating us. Though we are intereested in our chances of getting off the waitlist. We also want people to tell us where to go out of where we got in. We are striving to evoke general college discussion.
xoxo- For some reason the link isn't working. We don't know how to fix it.

By Bigblue04 (Bigblue04) on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Angryseniors-

Someone wrote a post a few threads ago on the college admissions process that I think is very valid. In a nutshell, it basically said- nobody has any "basis" for complaining about the way college admissions treats you because they never said they had to be fair- we tend to take that for granted. Especially at the private universities, they aren't obliged to accept every senior they think is qualified- it's THEIR choice and they get to decide who comes, even if it means sacrificing a very-qualified kid for a less-qualified kid that would make the class more diverse or well-rounded. YOU are the one that applies to them, not the other way around; therefore they're calling all the shots. There is no mathetmatical formula for figuring it out. There is no guarantee anything. They don't owe you anything.

Does that make it any less tough if you get rejected from a college you think you deserve to get into? Of course not. Everyone has their disappointments. It might be something as stupid as the school needing more pole-vaulters (and you're not a pole vaulter). Or maybe it wasn't. You'll never know, but keep in mind that the fate of your college acceptances comes down to what a few people in some office think of you. Not future employers. Not future grad school admissions officers. Not the world. Just these few people.

That said, there are certain things that may increase your chances. There is ALWAYS something you can do. If you sit around crying about the colleges you didn't get into, it may make you feel better temporarily, but what you should really concentrate on is the colleges you still have a chance at. Enter a contest. Join a competition. Get another recommendation. Get input from trusted family/teachers/advisors. Write another essay. Put together another portfolio. Re-emphasize your dedication. Don't do anything stupid, rash, or just plain weird- too many people mistake "unique" for strange. But keep on trying.

That doesn't work? Work your ass off at college, try new things, improve yourself as a person, and apply for a transfer. Transfer reject? Fine- there's always grad school. The great thing about America is that there's ALWAYS second chance. In fact, we all seem to LOVE the whole rags-to-riches, "Boo-hoo I was the underdog and ngot the crap-end of the stick but I worked hard and I was rewarded for it" story.

Admittedly, I'm probably not in any position to lecture about this being into college since December. If I were in your place, I would probably be just as pissed, if not even more so. But I wouldn't let that cripple me for future opportunities. DOn't let it cripple you either.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 05:06 pm: Edit

BUMP

By Mzhang23 (Mzhang23) on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit

College admissions can be fraught with disappointment. You both got into some very good schools despite missing out on your reaches and a few matches. I know many more who are in a much worse position than you guys are. As other people have said, you still have a chance on the waitlists. The important thing is to show continual interest.

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 04:08 am: Edit

Bigblue and Mzhang,
we appreciate your insight on the nature of college admissions. With kids in our class with lower GPA's and SAT scores getting into top colleges like Duke and Amherst, we now realize more than ever how political the entire admissions process is. It is about legacy. It is about connections. It is about money. Now, more than ever, it is harder to gain admittance into an ivy league school or a top notch, top tier university. On the same token, there are more good schools out there than ever before. In my opinion, the difference in educations at schools like Harvard and Michigan is virtually nothing.

By Idonotcare (Idonotcare) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 09:26 am: Edit

chill out, man
i have no legacy, i have no connection, i have no money. I am asian, male, international, and I ask for fin aid.
I do not have killer SAT score, or international award.
But i get in somewhere, and so did you.
Be happy with the choices you got there, and stop whining.
Your life is not the toughest in this world.

By Snuffles (Snuffles) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 09:52 am: Edit

Has it ever occured that you may have just been a victim of just luck? Perhaps you're trying to find excuses where there really aren't any. Admissions to top universities are extremely random, and maybe you really didn't stand out to them at all. You may be good, but nothing quite stunning.

By Dionne2004 (Dionne2004) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 09:52 am: Edit

what does "BUMP" mean?

By Nmoreno1 (Nmoreno1) on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Bump is a term used when someone wants to 'bump' the message to the top of the message list.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 10:06 am: Edit

B&B -- haven't heard from you in a couple of days. Are you going east to attend any admit days? Que passe?

By Angryseniors (Angryseniors) on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Brewster is at Pomona right now.