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I'm a junior in high school who is extremely interested in applying to Oxford. I've read through the majority of posts on this board relating to Oxbridge, and feel I'm fairly wellinformed about the admissions process.

However, I really want to study PPE at Oxford, and I know this is a very popular subject. I'd also love to attend Magdalen which is supposedly one of the harder schools to get into (I'm also looking into University, Corpus Christi, and New). It doesn't help that I'm an American applying, and acceptances are in the single digits from North America to Oxbridge.

I'm taking three APs this year (AP Spanish, AP US History, AP Comparative Government) and plan on taking at least 4 more next year. All except AP Spanish are relevant to PPE, so I'm hoping this shows a continued interest, which I truly have. I wish I had taken AP Euro History sophomore year, but theres nothing I can do about that now. I know I have no actual grades yet to state, but would anyone be able to tell me if there's even a chance for me? I think I should be able to pull 5s in the majority of my APs, but at the time of application I will have only taken three APs, even if I get a 5 on all of them. Will this hurt me? Should I choose a less popular college? Choosing a different course is almost out of the question as I would not want to study a different subject that I'm not as interested in just to have a better chance of being accepted.

I'm taking the March SAT, from PSAT grades and practice tests I'm aiming 1400-1550.

I attend Stuyvesant High School in Manhattan, which is (supposedly) at least the 2nd best public school in the country, if not (usually) the best, so I do feel like my courses have been advanced to the point where with a lot of extra effort I could match the UK education system, although we are two years behind.

I also really like the way courses are taught (tutoring), the idea of graduating in three years, the subject overall (EXACTLY my passion), England itself (I studied for three weeks at Cambridge last year and loved it as well - hmm...got two or three credits there, will that count for anything?), and feel that I would do well at the interview, being fairly extraverted and good at speaking to adults/teachers/professors.

I would LOVE to hear of anyone who got into or knows someone who got into Oxford to study PPE from North America, what their grades were, how the interview went, where they interviewed, what college, etc. In fact, any advice at all is very welcome! Thanks SO much!!!

miscgrl

PS - There doesn't seem to be ANY financial help whatsoever for American undergraduates going to Oxbridge. Any info on that would be GREATLY appreciated as well!!!

By Adxj220 (Adxj220) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 08:50 pm: Edit

Hey. I can't address Oxford specifically, but I did get into Cambridge (Trinity college) from the US this year for a similar subject--Social and Political science.

So this is what you need for "Oxbridge':

No high school transcript. It's irrelevant to them and unneccesary.

Very high SAT/SAt II scores. On their website they state a minimum range which is quite low--but in reality you need much higher scores, about 1480+/750+ (should aim for these at least).

By the end of high school you should have about 4 or 5 AP scores of 5. If you only have three by the end of junior year, they can still admit you w/ a conditional offer on seior year APs(In my case, two 5s).

You need a really good rec, w/ emphasis on potential and academic ability.

Maybe relevant work/internship/school related activites. Not a big deal though.

They ask you to send marked/graded school papers to them. This is EXTREMELY important to demonstrate the quality of your work--has to be very very good, clear thinking, well written.

Usually they get a bunch of candidates with these qualifications, so the subject-specific interview makes or breaks you (VERY important): You should be quite knowledgable about your subject. Speak "eloquently". Show a lot of passion and interest.They challenge your opinions a lot , so be prepared to defend and argue (but also to be open to new ideas). They spring a lot of crazy/specific/broad/random/difficult topics based on your subject at you, so read up a little. Usually you have to read a passage, and discuss (so I've heard about PPE interviews in NY). The discussion goes from there.

Ask, if you have any other questions.

By Miscgrl (Miscgrl) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Thanks for the suggestions!

I was also wondering what college to apply to within Oxford for PPE, I want a school thats good for the course and not really poor (or an all girls college, etc) but I also don't want to make it impossibly hard (statistically) to be accepted, not only then being an international student, studying one of the most popular courses there, but applying to one of the most competitive/frequently applied to schools. Any ideas?

In fact, any more input by anyone is greatly appreciated. I'd especially like to contact anyone from America who made PPE right out of high school (hopefully such persons exist ;D). Thanks!

By Lxg21918 (Lxg21918) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 11:42 pm: Edit

ha, be prepared for something novel-length. i applied for PPE and was not given an offer, so i only fit one of the criteria.

anyway...

just a piece of advice, PPE is insane. all of the americans i know who applied were rejected. i didn't really expect too much when i applied. i applied on whim and i knew my writing samples were crap (piece of advice... save your work. i didn't and it screwed me over. i kept hoping i would be assigned decent essays the first month of school. didn't happen). if you want to look at my stats, they're on the pr database (link's in profile). here's a thing you should remember: the college you go to has almost NO bearing on the academics. your college is basically just your dorm and dining hall. i visited this summer and here's kind of what i gathered from my visits.

st. john's - where i applied. applying was admittedly stupid, seeing as it's one of the more competitive colleges. however, it was my favorite. very friendly, great reputation, very wealthy, good location, supposedly some of the best food and rooming, kind of artsy (they were rehearsing for a play outdoors when i visited and they have their own stage). i spoke with lizzy emerson there and she was very informative and kind. if you get a chance to visit, i would try to talk to her. as far as i'm concerned, st. john's is what oxford's about.

lincoln - where i wish i had applied. i didn't get a chance to speak with anyone there, so i chose st. john's because i knew more about it. lincoln has a great location, is very beautiful, and has a very homey feel.

worcester - BEAUTIFUL, but it seemed a bit out of the way. i'd say it's middling as far as competition. one advantage that worcester has is that its sports grounds are on location.

wadham - supposedly very friendly to internationals. also supposed to be one of the most liberal colleges. the woman i spoke to was kind of aloof. it was nice enough, but it didn't really click for me.

pembroke - as far as i'm concerned, it has an undeserved bad rep. i really liked it when i visited. it's centrally located and a very pretty college. yes, it has had financial issues, but i would try to avoid letting that play too large a role in your decision.

st. peter's - kind of a melange of architectural styles. this was actually one of my least favorite colleges. it seemed like the entire georgetown campus squished into a city block.

st. hilda's - you'll really up your odds if you apply to st. hilda's. you have to decide whether going to a coed college is more important to you than going to oxford. st. hilda's is gorgeous and lies on the chaterwell. i don't think going to an all-women's college is that big of a deal since you're still socializing with everyone else.

jesus - these people are crazy and a lot of them are welsh. their alternative prospectus is hilarious. attractive enough and also has a good location. just from what i saw, it seemed like a fun place to be.

keble - victorian, a bit ostentatious, and doesn't have the best location unless you're into the sciences. it's very large. you'll like it if you like 19th century architecture. the brick work is really nice. after talking to the tutor for admissions there, i kind of gathered that it was average as far as admissions.

christ church and magdalen - probably the most visible colleges. both are quite attractive, large, and have great grounds. they're also very competitive.

balliol - do not apply here unless you are a genetic mutation of locke, smith, kant, macchiavelli, aristotle, and paine. the most competitve college for PPE. the reason it's so competitive is that it's produced the most politicians and thus attracts the kids who are most hardcore about PPE. they then go on to be politicians and perpetuate this cycle. it's not because their academics are better (like i said, this is just where you eat and sleep). it's all about reputation and that excellence attracts excellence. it's right next to st. john's. pretty enough. one of the oldest colleges.

st. edmund hall (teddy hall) - cute, old, lots of students but little space. two friends got rejected from it.

exeter - kind of like st. john's. large and pretty. another friend was rejected from here.

and yeah... i know i'm probably leaving off twenty colleges, but if that doesn't get you started. i don't know what will.

best of luck. grades don't matter. test scores will get your foot in the door. write the kind of personal statement they want (why you want to study there, past experience with PPE, future goals... none of this creative, getting-to-know-you stuff that they want here). ideally, the person who writes your rec knows you well, can talk about your intellectual curiousity and the fact that you're not an arrogant tool in the tiny amount of space that they give, and knows how to follow instructions. make sure your writing samples aren't crap (mine were). be prepared to be challenged for your interview. get your app stuff done over the summer. the deadline is oct 1st (and oct 15th for UCAS). you don't want to be paying $35 for 4 day shipping, like i did three times. anyway, if you managed to read this all, props. if you ever want to contact me, just respond to this.

By Mini (Mini) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 11:23 am: Edit

I am a Worcester "old member" (that's what we call alumni) (I had a scholarship specifically tied to Worcester. I'm also a Stuy grad!) Having attended, I can't imagine wanting to attend any of the others, with the possible exception of Merton. Worcester has a long history of admitting Americans, the place isn't nearly as stuffy as Magdelen or St. John's, and, precisely because of its location, it is the prettiest of all the colleges, with unbelievable grounds (Lewis Carroll used to row Alice up the canal, and you can actually see the places where Alice in Wonderland takes place -- the chute into Wonderland, the croquet ground, the place where they paint the roses red -- they actually pull out the yellow roses after they flower and replace them with red ones; sadly, the tree where the cheshire cat used to sit was cut down due to disease). Tutors are very strong.

The keys are writing, writing, and writing -- imagine the amount you write at Stuy and triple it, and then some. Your interview will count for more than half. They assume you will have at least 5 APs (preferably more) -- this is why entering British students have usually taken an extra year of "high school" before "going up".

Good luck to you.

(P.S. The U.S. college/university that most closely resembles Oxford is not HYP, but the Claremont system (Scripps, Pomona, Clarement-McKenna, Pitzer, Harvey Mudd) in California; Williams College offers Oxford-style tutorials.)

By Lana_K (Lana_K) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 02:00 pm: Edit

i got an offer from christ church to do PPE and it seemed to me that all they cared about was the interview, the essays you send in and the written test.

top grades/SAT scores don't even guarantee an invitation to the interview. apparently only 60% of applicants (Christ Church, PPE) were invited this year and my friend with 4 As at AS-level was rejected straight away - she was later told that her written work was not exceptionally good.

at the interviews everyone was asked the same questions - they were all academic and there were no questions on extracurricular activites/personal statements (although this might not be the case at other colleges). My interviewers were quite intimidating - at one point, when i made a mistake, they both started laughing. the economics part of the interview mostly consisted of questions on game theory

it's nearly impossible to judge how you did in your interviews. I was 99.9% sure I wouldn't get in!

By Miscgrl (Miscgrl) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 04:51 pm: Edit

All this information has been really helpful, thank you guys SO much! Its really nice to hear about people's interview experiences, especially.

Mini - You have no idea how excited I was to see that you were a Stuy grad! I went to the college office the other day and when I asked about Oxford the woman just shook her head as if to say "Forget about it hun." It's SO good to hear that people from Stuy have made Oxford (not just kids from private schools.) I was wondering what you studied there (PPE or other?), how you found it adjusting, as much as you can tell me about your experience. Also if you could possibly tell me your high school stats that got you in, I'm always curious about what the range is. I want to go to Oxford so badly I can't even begin. I hadn't really been thinking about Worcester, but now its definitely on my mind, thanks! Oh and btw did you interview in NY or go to Oxford for the interview? Is there an advantage to flying in for the interview?

Everyone - thanks for the tips on having good essays, I didn't realize they were so important!

Any advice/stories from anyone is always welcome! Thank you guys SO much, I'm so happy to have found a place where I can meet people who've gone through this process already!

By Mini (Mini) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:51 pm: Edit

I didn't go directly from high school. Went from Williams College, with the equivalent of a Rhodes but specifically tied to Worcester. Studied English, with an emphasis on medieval studies. I visited two years ago. When I was there decades ago, Worcester was one of the poorer colleges financially, but things have changed, as Rupert Murdoch and George Sainsbury, both gazillionaires, are alums and have been pouring huge amounts of money in. (I think, but am not sure, that Bill Bradley also went to Worcester, before my time.) The wealth of the college DOES make a difference -- it is not only a place where you eat and sleep, but where your academic program is designed, and where other activities happen (Worcester is well-known for its outdoor theater, and at least used to have a fine orchestra.)

If you are going to spend $35,000 a year to enroll anyway, I would definitely fly in for the interview, just to show how much you care. They assume ALL American applicants will have at least 5+ APs (with 4s and 5s) and great SATs - that will barely get you into the pool, if you are lucky (and they haven't already committed the places). Your grades will be almost irrelevant -- you wouldn't be applying if you didn't have good grades. So it all comes down to your writing and your interview. They will positively grill you, and you will, like everyone else, come out feeling you didn't make it. But if you make it as far as an interview, you really do have a good shot.

Work on your writing. I spent four years as a Phi Beta Kappa at Williams, and I was still not prepared for what they considered to be second year writing at Worcester. (But I am now a much published author and former book publisher.)

Adjusting -- the first night I was there, they had the tv on in the "buttery" (each college has its own pub), and it was Monty Python (this was before Monty Python had made it to the U.S.) Everyone was laughing hysterically. I didn't understand a word of it. The food back then was abominable -- mushrooms on cold toast for breakfast; Franco-American spaghetti on cold toast for snacks; beans on toast....you get the picture. I lived on excellent Pakistani food. (But it has gotten much, MUCH better.) I lived in the building where Thomas DeQuincy smoked his opium, a 15th century Benedictine monastic dwelling. (Now there is a Chinese restaurant called "The Opium Den" across the street.) Played on a cricket team called the Worcester "Amateur Virtuosi", only qualification being that you had never touched a cricket bat before setting foot on English soil. Watercress sandwiches took some getting used to, as did sherry with tutorials, which could sometimes be cutthroat. But I learned so much, so quickly, and could jump on a hovercraft and go to Paris for Christmas!

The students are all very well-trained and intelligent, though in my day one could be the dumbest stone on the block and earn a "pass" degree, if you contributed enough money. Evelyn Waugh went to Worcester -- the opening scene in "Decline and Fall" takes place there. But this was all before the college went co-ed, and the British government required meritocratic admissions (with still occasional exceptions.) And it is just a great city in which to get an education, with resources and things to do which are endless.

By Expataznamerica (Expataznamerica) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

I know about 15 friends who've applied for PPE. Altogether, about 10 were invited for interviews, and only about 4 were accepted.

I tend to disagree that the college is only the place that you sleep and eat at. Based on the Norrington Tables, wealth of college is related to the quality of the education (in terms of getting firsts). I'm sure that you can argue that the quality of students perpetuates itself at the more famous colleges, but still, the funds that the college sets aside for education (such as the number of volumes in the college libra) is important.

As for me, I realized that going into the Law School, I needed to be near the library. Hence, I chose Exeter. It's great, hehe, in fact, it's one of the closest colleges to the Bodleian, only a few minutes walk. Try doing that from a peripheral college like Somerset or St. Hughs...

By Mini (Mini) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 06:25 pm: Edit

P.S. -- I just wanted to add that I'm a dad on this list, as my daughter is a homeschooled senior who is in the throes of the same admissions nightmare most of you are involved in. To my delight, she is leaning heavily toward Scripps, as the Claremont system is as close to the Oxford system as exists in the U.S.

(I tried to interest her in reading music at Oxford, but no such luck, and she'd prefer going to Italy!)

By Expataznamerica (Expataznamerica) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 07:16 pm: Edit

Just adding on to what Mini said about Evelyn Waugh, you can also check out his novel "Brideshead Revisited." The beginning is also set in Oxford.

By Cybernetica (Cybernetica) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Hah, ah yes...The Ox interview...that fun fiasco...I'll have to post the story on here sometime; The guy seemed to love me for half of it and hate me the other. The subject of the paper to read for the interview was completely unrelated to the concentration I applied for (PPP), at least the aspects I had emphasized on the app.

The written test, however, was shockingly easier than I had imagined. But before I even mailed back the test I got a letter saying that 14 applicants had applied for 4 PPP spots and I had not been selected.

Anyway, I will suffice to say that if I had to do the October-December Ox all over again (I'm young, so maybe I'll take a "gap year" off and do so - if I feel lucky enough...) I would try and research the Oxbridge system, the REAL system, as thoroughly as we try to research u.s. college systems here on cc. Unfortunately you won't find any great Bauld's, Hernandez's, or Cohen's to publish the secrets for you.

Instead, I recommend doing some snooping around online. I can't post the specific links I've found most intriguing here because it is again cc policy (some of these are private companies and could be viewed as competitors, etc), but check out google for phrases like "Oxbridge Admissions" and "Oxford interview questions." Many English periodicals have published fascinating exposes, and there exist a number of (relatively) inexpensive (but still not cheap) downloadable guides, networking, college selection recommendation, and other useful insider info/ statistics on oxbridge admissions.

I wish you the best of luck.

NYC has many oxford alums, btw. I don't know if you are involved in any major academic programs that seem to mimic your interests, but I know for example that I was able to find a senior professor of cog psych who was an ox alum to write my recc (who I had come to know well over the past few summers) through a lab volunteer program I did - and that I am sure was part of why I was given an interview even though I had pretty convincing essay for the space (or so he told me) and my stats weren't bad.

(You are probably going to grill me on them so,

SAT I: 800 V, 720 M (I'd taken only taken it once at that point)

SAT II MathIIC, 800; Writing, 800; Literature, 760.

Junior Year APs (I explained my public school didn't really offer any APs to below juniors)...

Eng Lang : 5
Cal AB: 5
Psychology (duh for PPP): 5
Euro Hist: 4
CompSci A: 4)

As mentioned before, make sure to send way before the October deadline. (this is a big reason to take SAT Is/IIs for Ox ASAP late junior early senior year - or before ideally).

Also, you need to fill out the UCAS as someone may have told you, which - if you want to avoid the hassle I went through of calling the British embassy - you are best advised to fill out and submit to Ox via http://www.ucas.com/intapply/index.html
(The UCAS international apply system)

If you are going to apply to any other UK institutions I wouldn't brag about ox in the statement on the UCAS int app, but otherwise go for it. You need a referree to post his or her recc electronically in the UCAS int app box...if the person who is reccing you for Ox wants to keep it confidential and has mailed his/hers separately, you can just get some generic teacherto fill in the recc on UCAS.

Finally if you haven't already figured this out...imo, the full version of Acrobat can very helpful for neatly filling out college forms without a typewriter most especially oxford, since they don't draw in the form fields for you like some us institions. If you can't afford to buy the full version of acrobat, maybe a school computer has it or maybe p2p...(just kidding...I don't espouse illegal activity of any kind)...or just neatly write in block letters

(This is more important than it seems. The oxford secretaries are finnicky nitwits sometimes...I had a friend who literally didn't have his paperwork processed for Physics and Philosophy at ox simply because his handwriting was - as it turned out - 'too messy' for them to bother.)

As part of making deadlines in advance, monitor the ox website (ox.ac.uk) vigourously for announcements of the Applying for North America PDF...download it as soon as it is out, and send it out asap...they really don't give you a great deal of time.

http://www.admissions.ox.ac.uk/int/usa/apply.shtml

I believe that link is the one they will update with the most recent USA ox app info once and pdfs once it is released...it currently has the instructions (and I think the form) from this year so you can see how the ox component of the ox app "works."

Finally, all I can say is, do your best to blow them away in your particular field with the written work.

Anyway so that's a demi-anecdote and a grain of over-salinated advice for what its worth.

Good Luck

-Sahil

By Miscgrl (Miscgrl) on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

Thank you all for the EXTREME wealth of info posted here - its been really informative!

:D

That and trying to study for SATIs, two SATIIs, and 4 APs should keep me busy for a while.....

**groans**

Still open to more stories though, its really great to compare experiences people have had with this admissions process and Oxford in general!

By Mini (Mini) on Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

I wanted to add that I have confirmed that Bill Bradley was indeed a "Worcester" man, as was his college basketball nemesis, the New York political figure Heywood Dotson, who graduated from Columbia, after having also gone to Stuyvesant.