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I have a question for everyone. I've been pouring over the common app, but i've come across a quandry for the ethnicity statement. are slavic countries considered caucasian? i mean, a lot of slav's are (or are from) the asian continent, so i'm not sure what to put. should it be put under "Other: Slavic"? i realize that Russian should be put under Asian category, but what about the other slavic countries, like bosnia, serbia, or poland? (and yes, poland is a slavic country. polish is a slavic language.)

By Jason (Jason) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Well...I don't know anything about your question, but would advise you to check the "Other" checkbox if at all possible. It would help you in the admissions process.

By Muzicgal04 (Muzicgal04) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 05:57 pm: Edit

I dont know anything either.....but I would suggest other: slavic

By Abyss (Abyss) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 06:02 pm: Edit

it's not other, it's caucasian! (i know, and so should you!!!) by the way, rusians are most CERTAINLY caucasian.. caucasian refers to the fact that your ancestors orginated from the aryan (spelling?) region near the black sea. this means that TECHINCALLY all indians and paki's are caucasian as well, but most colleges list a seperate category for this group.

By Penguin (Penguin) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 06:05 pm: Edit

I too would suggest "other: slavic". I had no idea Polish was a Slavic language; I'd always assumed it was Germanic. Huh. Learn something new every day.

(Incidentally, I sort of think "other: slavic" would also be more appropriate for Russians than "Asian" - not to mention true, and more helpful from a tactical standpoint.)

By Penguin (Penguin) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Abyss: Yes, the term "Caucasian" is etymologically related to the Caucasus region, which is where you describe, and it is now used as a PC label for people with a "white" skin tone. However, since race is an artificial categorization anyhow, why shouldn't Merugo try to get some URM mileage out of his Slavic ethnicity? Specifically declaring it won't hurt him, at the very least.

By Merugo (Merugo) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 06:22 pm: Edit

abyss-

no way. on the common app at least, it's ethnic groups, not geographic regions. and since webster.com defines "ethnic" :

2 a : of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background (ethnic minorities) (ethnic enclaves) b : being a member of an ethnic group c : of, relating to, or characteristic of ethnics (ethnic neighborhoods) (ethnic foods)

therefore we can determine that slavic is indeed a seperate ethnic group because it is based from a different cultural origin, etc. etc. than white/caucasian ethnic groups.

and besides, caucasian refers to the geographic area between the caspian and black sea, aka the Caucasus Mountains. it is that singular region that is technically caucasian.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Merugo~

In your case, it makes no difference. Marking caucasian or other:slavic will have no effect on your status. The URM's arm does not extend as far as Poland or Russia, except for the occasional Black Russian

By Whatever04 (Whatever04) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 06:38 pm: Edit

ok, ive registered for college confidential a while ago and up until now i had an incredibly high virw of the people on CC. You guys must be quite the dumbest ive encountered so far. No, Caucasian does not refer to the region of the Caucasus Mtns. Perhaps the term is derived from there, but that doesnt matter now does it.
Americans, Canadians, europeans with the exception of spain, certainly russia and all the little countries around it that broke of it, they are all Caucasians.
When they say Asian, no they don't refer to the continent Asia, but to the people of the Asian race, u know...Asians, ppl with small eyes. Sure you could put Other:slavik, but if i was an ad com, id think u were pretty stupid
all slavik people are caucasian. Putting Other, when Caucasian is there would imply that you are not caucasian, which u are

By Coureur (Coureur) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 07:05 pm: Edit

Well, let's think of some famous Slavs: Vlade Divac, Christine Baranski, Olga Koubut, Boris Yeltsin, Mikail Gobachev, Ivan Lendl, Monica Seles, and so on.

They all seem like white folks to me.

By Balkanman21 (Balkanman21) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 07:35 pm: Edit

I am Serbian and I put OTHER. They will, no doubt, consider me Caucasian; although even I feel this is correct and proper I still feel the need to put Serbian because I am a second generation Serb, I am fluent in Serbo-Croatian, and I spend my summers in the former-Yugoslavia.

By Merugo (Merugo) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 08:29 pm: Edit

exactly. i'm polish (3rd generation) and i speak german and a little polish too. i don't really feel right about just declaring white/caucasian, because i don't really consider myself caucasian. western, caucasian culture is quite different from slavic, i think.

balkanman21, your name wouldn't happen to be dusan, would it? i have a friend who does the exact same thing.

By Balkanman21 (Balkanman21) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 08:36 pm: Edit

No, sorry Merugo, my name is not Dusan. The fact that your friend Dusan does the same thing does not surprise me; Serbs are all the same. I notice that you are from California. I live in the South Bay Area (Santa Clara County).

By Merugo (Merugo) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 08:42 pm: Edit

ah, not too far then. i'm from east of sacramento, in the middle of nowhere. we have two kids near the top of our class, edo and dusan, who are bosnian and serbian, respectively. needless to say, they don't always get along.

but they've both agreed not to like the albanian kid.

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 08:50 pm: Edit

IM RUSSIAN AND I ALWAYS MARK: WHITE/CAUCASIAN

the question is answered and resolved; unless from siberia, all russians are white.

By Got2go (Got2go) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 09:03 pm: Edit

My grandparents were Red Russians, so I usually mark other, and put "red" on the ethnicity question.

By Balkanman21 (Balkanman21) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 09:05 pm: Edit

By checking OTHER and putting SERBIAN I am in no way saying that I am not white. I am merely choosing to emphasize the fact that I am Serbian for my own personal reasons.

“But they've both agreed not to like the Albanian kid.”

HAHA...well I get along quite well with all people from the former-Yugoslavia, especially Croatians. Albanians are scum (to say the least) and I’m happy to see some form of consensus on the matter.

By Squanto (Squanto) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Russians are a mixed 'bag' racially. Most of the eastern area peoples are at least part Mongol, while those in the Black Sea region have some Mongol ancestry as well, though not as much as those living in Siberia. In Western Russia, or what is not Belorus, Moldova and Ukraine, almost all of the population is European/Caucasian. The trans-Caucasus have a mix of ethnicities, with most being European/Caucasian including Armenia, Georgia, and the various Turkic states like Uzbekistan. The Azeris are Persian, still considered Caucasian.
In eastern Europe, the Finns and the Magyars (Hungary) are of Mongol stock originally, so they may qualify as Asian. Otherwise, the Slavic countries are pretty much all European/Caucasian.
So much of Eastern Europe has moved around that it's really difficult to pin down the ethnicity of any group today. For example, after WWII, Poland was literally moved West by about 200 miles by the Soviets, who wanted their industrial areas further from Germany. So Poland took 200 miles of Germany, and The Soviet Union took 200 miles of Poland. So many 'Poles' are actually German, and Lithuanian, and Ukrainian. Many residents of Hungary are Rumanian and numerous Italians are actually Austrian. I could go on, but the answer to your question is really to go look in the mirror. If you have a slight Asian cast to your face, high cheekbones, straight hair and slightly Asiatic eyes, than you can, in good conscience call yourself Asian. If not, just face up to the fact that you are European/Caucasian.
And by the way, being Asian doesn't really get you much in the way of special treatment. Unless, of course, you're applying to a LAC with a strong desire to 'diversify.' Then it can be a modest advantage.

By Saccharine (Saccharine) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 03:26 pm: Edit

I'm 100% Polish and I'm white/Caucasian.

I don't really get your question - Polish people are Caucasians or I'm not Polish .

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 06:52 pm: Edit

sorry--to clarify my point:

I was born in the ukraine. the country itself is homogenous with an ever-decreasing minority of jews and some other ethnicities from the SSRs that were sent to build industry or moved to ukraine because of financial circumstances; however, like the jews they are moving back to their areas of origin and the country is becoming more homogenous as its national identity takes shape. but another point to bring up about my own ethnicity: slavs consider me jewish and americans consider me slavic, and i myself identify more with the jewish culture than the slavic culture. the ancestors of the slavs originated in the caucus region much the same as european ancestors and they are thus caucasian. granted there is a large minority of russians who have mongolian lineage, the majority of people in Eastern Europe are pure slavs and are considered white.

but in the long run its completely up to the individual what to classify themselves. all these posts do on this thread is offer suggestions, there is no absolute truth in the answers we give....just opinions from our own knowledge and experiences.

By Penguin (Penguin) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 07:05 pm: Edit

"but in the long run its completely up to the individual what to classify themselves. all these posts do on this thread is offer suggestions, there is no absolute truth in the answers we give....just opinions from our own knowledge and experiences."

Absolutely right. Race as an innate, inherited characteristic, the way Squanto is struggling to define it, is a lie. It creates utterly meaningless, artificial, arbitrary boundaries (note Squanto's effort to indicate the sort of facial feature required to be "Asian"); from time to time in history, people have acted on those false divisions in supremely evil and destructive ways. Ethnicity, on the other hand, cultural identity, is very real, and Merugo ought simply state the tradition of which he feels a part.

By Squanto (Squanto) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

Sadly you're wrong about race. It is, at worst, an artificial construct, but it does capture the essential aspects of the group(s) it defines. Asians have certain, quite specific and quite consistent physical characteristics. As do Negroes and Caucasians. That is the result of tens of thousands of years of evolution and breeding within a defined and limited geographical area.
As for our friend whose origins are in Ukraine, but who is Jewish, the odds of that person being 'Slavic' are slim to none. The Jews that lived in Ukraine arrived sometime in the 15th centure at the invitation of the King of Poland, and co-existed quite uncomfortably with the Slavs for 500 plus years. My grandmother was from Kiev, but we have no Slavs in our family history. There may well have been some intermarriage, but nothing significant in at least 6 generations.
The answer is you can define yourself any way you choose, but an Eastern European Jew is not Slav, unless, of course, there was an intermarriage or conversion.

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 08:42 pm: Edit

oh, i already know i'm not a slav and i know the history of the region and the many diasporas that finally settled the jews in eastern europe. my last name itself has prussian-jewish origins, if you heard or saw it you would in no way think it resembles a slavic last name. despite my last comment (and strangely enough) Squanto, i agree that race is the great definer of people. but that in no way subjugates the individual's right to their opinion. everyone has their own views on ethnicity and the boundaries that separate every individual. you can't argue that ethnicity is absolute, because there is so much gray area to overcome that it becomes more a question of orientation and favoritism than a definite possession. for example: my history teacher's ancestors were jewish but converted to catholicism during the spanish inquisition (around the 16th-17th century from what he told me). he has records of mostly jewish blood in his family but still chooses to identify himself as spanish...despite the obvious contradictions in his own ancestry: it is simply the ethnicity with which he most identifies. had i been raised as a slav (truthfully my parents are atheists--a byproduct of a Soviet education) with no formal education about my jewish culture i would have no doubts or second thoughts about writing "slavic" as my area of origin because it would be that with which i most identified--despite having no slavic blood. is it lieing? yes and no. is it open to interpretation? completely.

oh and to merugo:
this all applies to the post as well. i do not say that my ancestors came from israel when someone asks me, i say russia. why? becuase it simplifies an answer to a complicated question. do the same on your cornell application, don't be too analytical of their instructions. despite what you may think, they had other intentions when they gave that definition. and if you completely disagree with me and want to mark that you're african american: CALL THE ADMISSIONS OFFICE AND VERIFY WITH THEM. you seem way too immature to do it, but its your best shot at claiming yourself african american.

my comments are open to arguement....in fact i expect argument

By Merugo (Merugo) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 10:33 pm: Edit

read my post on my other thread. it covers that last part.

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/messages/5/40859.html

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 10:46 pm: Edit

oh man...sorry; the two posts have so much in common i guess i made a mistake

eh, it was tactless on my part but for those of you who care merugo was generous enough to post the link despite my insult (which has no basis since i dont even know the guy/girl)

By Merugo (Merugo) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 10:49 pm: Edit

hey, may the immature inherit the earth.

that is, if a literal interpretation is immature... but hey, whose keeping track of all those mundanities anyway?

By Whatever04 (Whatever04) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 11:21 am: Edit

Lol, thats the thing. Arent some of you guys a lil TOO worried about your race. You say you dont want to define yourself as white, as to not be mistaken with white culture perhaps. The fact is, I think colleges realize that not all white ppl have the same culture and thus you shouldnt be so worried about it. It's not that big of a factor...
oh....and Austrians would constitute less than .5 % of the romanian population...largest minority being Hungarian (7%)... which we tend to dislike extremely.

By Joeybg (Joeybg) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 04:23 pm: Edit

It's really funny when americans start "pondering" over european affairs.I'm from Bulgaria(Yes it IS in Europe).Which is considered a slavic country because of the language.....actually was I to meet with any of the serbian guys here I wouldn'd have problems understanding at least 70% of their speech.Origin is something very unpredictable...but all the NATIVE tribes of continental Europe are White/Caucasian...u can put other and write French ,Italian ,Bulgarian or whatever but you are White...Look yourself in the mirror ...what do u see ...?...what does Poland have to do with asia)?The whole EvroAsia is very connected historically coz there is no separation b/n the too continents and in the past many asian tribes including the Magyars(Hungarians) and Proto-Bulgarians also known as Bulgars came from asia...still genetically only about 5% of the whole mixture of genes in Bulgarians are asian...with the hungarians the % goes up to like 20%...still there is now way u can tell the diffrence since the ppl(Here on BG land) have mixed up with the slaves and thracians 1300 years ago and formed Bulgaria(in 681 if u are interested in History)only the name has since then remained ...as a whole the BG lang is Slavic but with very different grammar than the rest of the slavic langs due to the greek influance over the centuries.
BTW since I got very deep into the "problem" If next time asked where does the cyrillic alphabet come from,don't tell Russia... it was acually first introduced in Bulgaria in 9th cent. and it is known as Old Bulgarian or Church Slavonic....so the russians borrowed it from us togeter with some of the other Slavic nations + Romanians{who used it up to 19th cent. btw}

By Fallentear04 (Fallentear04) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 05:59 pm: Edit

People in Poland are not from Asia, so there is no question that they are white/caucasian. In fact, the only country that is remotely questionable is Russia. There is no need to group the other Slavic countries in with Russia.

In terms of Poland, many people consider it "Westernized" anyway, and people from the country (myself included) would argue that it definitely isn't Eastern European so much as Central European.

My advice is to not worry so much about which box to check. Go work on your essays. Go do something more important.

By Whatever04 (Whatever04) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 06:07 pm: Edit

yah, romanian did use the cyrillic alphabet..man good thing we got rid of it..