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So I noticed there are a lot of Nigerians here

I'm interested to know where you're applying, your stats, and where you're from.

I was born in Maiduguri, speak only Hausa, mother is Fulani, father is Yoruba. I'm a Citizen.

I'm applying to University of Maryland, Bryn Mawr, Smith, Wellesley, Vassar, Yale, Amherst, Swarthmore, Harvard, Mount Holyoke, Wesleyan.

I have a 1460 (800v 660 v) but will take it over for a 1500.
800 literature, 790 writing, plan to take world history and french.
taking 6 ap classes senior year.
lots of awards for writing.
pretty good extracurriculars
dont know how my recommendations are.

if anyone else knows, are nigerians and other africans who are citizens treated like regular african americans? i think they are but im not 100% sure

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 09:46 pm: Edit

what do you mean treated like other african americans???

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 09:51 pm: Edit

in terms of admission.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

you mean in terms of considering race/nationality as a factor? i don't see why you would want to do that.

By Evil_Robot (Evil_Robot) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Um...no.

Internationals don't get URM status. The whole point of being a URM is being an American citizen.

By Zephyrmaster (Zephyrmaster) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Did you read about that new "Nigerian" scam (obviously not from Nigeria everytime), but some people paid upwards of 60000 UPFRONT for a guarenteed "oil well." I feel sorry for people that gullible.

And guys, I think he's a citizen. He said he was a citizen twice, and I'll assume he means of the US. With that, he will get URM right?

Good luck though! Your URM status should be just a small part of your application, since you seem strong in all areas. Best regards.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:25 pm: Edit

i said nigerians and other africans who ARE CITIZENS but were not born here.

"you mean in terms of considering race/nationality as a factor? i don't see why you would want to do that."

my whole point is that i was wondering if non-native black citizens get the same advantage as native black citizens during admissions.

For example would a nigerian-born citizen like myself be compared with other nigerian-born citizens or with other regular african americans.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:29 pm: Edit

yes, i (a she) am a citizen.

why do people even respond to posts without reading them?

yes, nigerians are well-known for scamming people

By Minnesoder (Minnesoder) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:38 pm: Edit

"yes, nigerians are well-known for scamming people"

indeed.

"if anyone else knows, are nigerians and other africans who are citizens treated like regular african americans? i think they are but im not 100% sure"

you check off african american/black, and so you're considered an african-american/black applicant, and there is nothing more too it.

By Zephyrmaster (Zephyrmaster) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:39 pm: Edit

nigerians are well-known for scamming people

The worst part is the number of gullible people...

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:44 pm: Edit

i recently got a nigerian scam in my email.

this guy was saying he needed a bank account number to deposit a million dollars, and if i gave him my bank account info he'd share the money with me.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:44 pm: Edit

i recently got a nigerian scam in my email.

this guy was saying he needed a bank account number to deposit a million dollars, and if i gave him my bank account info he'd share the money with me.

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 01:03 am: Edit

Hey my fellow Nigerian Peeps

Bao Oni! (I'm horrible- Trying to greet you in Yoruba)

Great to see Nigerians out there.

COuple QUestions for y'all:
1) Okay, someone said in an earlier post that Nigerians are raised like your typical Asian kids. I can totally relate. Do any of you feel that way as well?

2) Where is everyone from? (I'm from Tallahassee, FL)

3)For those of you with Nigerian names, don't you hate repeating yourself to people all the time?

4) Do any of you go to a Nigerian church (Redeemed, Mountain of fire.., etc.)? If anyone out there goes to Redeemed, I might see you at the convention in New Jersey if you're going to be there.

5. Favorite Nigerian Dishes?
Mine is Iyan (or pounded yam) with okra soup and some DohDoh, PuffPuff, and Moi Moi on the side.

6. Funniest Nigerian moment?

Okay, I rode in a big van with my church on the way to the RCCG convention in D.C. a couple years back. We had two vans and my uncle was in my van communicating with my other uncle (why are all Nigerian adults our uncles and aunties?) in the other van with a walkie talkie. My uncles thought that these were the coolest things and for some reason after like every word they would Shout "OVAH!" (Over). THis is probably not all that funny to you but if you would have been in that van for 12 hours listening to two Nigerian men with heavy accents go: "Hello."
"OVAH!" "DO YOU Dey Here Me?", "OVAH!" I promise you, you would have been rollin.

Well I've rambled long enough: Here is a list of the schools I'm Applying to:

Harvard, Stanford, Duke, Emory, COlumbia, Univ. Of Fla., Oberlin, maybe Howard, and others.

Oh yeah, did anyone talk about their Nigerian heritage in their college essay?
Still trying to decide

Well,
Peace, Love, and A huge Gae-Lay to you all

Tko

By Valpal (Valpal) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 02:19 am: Edit

Sadeyed and Tko, this is a really fascinating thread. What immediately sprung to my mind were questions about the cultural differences between Nigerian born U.S. citizens and native born African Americans. Every African born person I've ever met (which admittedly, is not a lot of people) has seemed to be very much academically driven. There seems to be no peer stigma associated with a desire for academic excellence within the African community---a stigma, which unfortunately, is sometimes common among African American Youth (particularly those in the low income brackets). Many times the effect is very subtle---not so much a matter of open ridicule of academic pursuits, as much as a disinterest in academics in general, a tacit agreement that book smarts "just isn't our thing". Is this devaluing of academics something you've noticed in your school among the native born African American students? I ask this because, as a person who was always very intellectually curious, I encountered no small amount of ridicule for it among my black peers (of course, this occured quite a few years ago---when automobiles were started by a very large crank on the front---LOL!).

I'm asking if you see any major cultural differences between fairly recently immigrated Nigerians (and Africans in general---if indeed there exist any fair generalities to be made)and African Americans, whose ancesters had been slaves. (?)

Now in regard to your question, Sadeyed, I don't think that colleges will see you as quantitatively (nor qualitatively, for that matter) different from a Native born African American with similar stats and list of achievements. Such persons in both categories are rare enough so as to generate much enthusiasm in most Admissions Offices.

Tko, that story about the "uncles" and the walkie-talkies was hysterical. Thanks for the laugh--OVAH!

By May_1 (May_1) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 02:48 am: Edit

I guess I’ll chime in. I’m not Nigerian; my father was from Liberia. (Sorry that I’m not of that elevated people of Africa…as many Nigerians would like to claim…don’t front, you know exactly the arrogance I’m talking about. =) ) Neither of my parents was born here, and it is very true that there is a very different view of education among Africans. This may be sad, but when I hear that there is some black male with outstanding credentials with the whole nine, that seems very unusual to me. However, if it is revealed that they are of direct African descent, it’s like “well, of course…his parents would have no less.” ALL of my close Nigerian friends (about 15 or so) are VERY smart folks…cocky as all h*ll, but with the intelligence to back it up. But goodness, don’t get them started with the whole Igbo v. Yoruba debate…

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 02:42 pm: Edit

ValPal,

I don't know if I can do your question any justice but I'll give you my thoughts:

I totally agree that most of the Nigerians/Africans I know are very academically driven. This is a contrast to the consensus of most Black Americans, and I've been wondering about this as well. Here's My theory:

I believe that we are academically motivated to do our best because of the plight of our parents/ancestors. Picture this: My mother worked on a farm her whole childhood until she was ten years old. She didn't begin going to school until she was eleven. In order to go to school, she had to walk virtually barefoot for miles there and back and she still had to complete her farming duties when she got back home. In spite of these conditions, she was still able to become very successful while in Nigeria and even carried that success into America.

When I think about this, I know that there is no reason that I, who am able to drive to school in a nice car and and walk thru the halls in Nike sneakers, shouldn't be successful in academics, or anything else for that matter. Many kids complain to their parents about trivial stuff. This has always puzzled me. I can never picture myself complaining to my folks about how hard life/school/work is when I know it is nothing compared to what they went through at a way younger age.
So, Basically, for Nigerian/African first generation Americans, doing well in school is a must because our parents aren't the easiest people to make excuses to. Besides this, most of our parents came to this country hoping to make a better life for their kids, and its our job to do our part to make th\at happen.

Well that's just my $0.02

P.S. Where are all the other Nigerians out there? Y'all need to represent. Now I'm not going to call anybody out (*Coughing* -Minnesoder, Neo, ChillinNigerian) and the rest of you know who you are so please Post.

Also, just to let May 1 Know: Yoruba's Rule!!

Peace

tko

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Sadeyed Lady:

You like Lauryn Hill too!(email address gave it away.)

She is definitely my favorite music artist. She is so multitalented and she always sings/raps about real stuff. I even wrote a short college essay about the negative (and positive) effects of HipHop on society/(the black community). The essay began with a quote from her song Superstar (Miseducation Album):

"Yo, Hip Hop, started out in the heart...Now everybody's trying to chart."

Have you heard her UnPlugged album? I thought it was really deep and powerful but I wished that she would have rapped more. My favorite album of all time is still the Miseducation Album.

Do any other Nigerians like Lauryn? If not what artist/type of music do you like?

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Many people don't realize it but the most educated group of immigrants to the US are African immigrants. They are the highest percentage of immigrants to the US who either have or earn (I can't remember which) doctorates, even higher than Asians.

Historically, immigrants to the US have been one of the academically highest achieving groups. For instance, during the last century, Jewish immigrants and their kids were students who stood out in the way that Asians stand out now. They also faced a lot of discrimination in applying to top colleges because even though they tended to be head and shoulders above most other applicants, there were quotas limiting their numbers. Some top colleges wouldn't even accept them at all.

Currently, African, Asian and Haitains are among the groups that are the strongest academic achievers in this country. The African and Haitain ones, however, tend not to be noticed because they blend in with African Americans, which as a group are not high achievers.

If one looks at black students with the highest SAT scores and grades in the country, one will find that probably most of them are African or Haitain or children of African or Haitain immigrants. A large proportion of the others will be students who were educated in schools on military bases because their parents were in the military. For some reason, such schools are doing better than are any other group of schools in producing African American students with high grades and high test scores.

Traditionally, black Americans of Caribbean background have been among the nation's highest academic achievers when it comes to African Americans. I don't know how true this continues to be, but up until about 1980 or so, if one looked at the most academically successful African Americans, they tended to be either immigrants from the Caribbean or children of Caribbean immigrants. Colin Powell is just one example of this.

What's the reason for the high achievements of people of more direct African/Caribbean background? First, their parents are likely to be far more hard working and education conscious than are the average American of any race and are the average person in their own home country.

In Africa, the Caribbean (and for that matter, Asia), it is very difficult to get a higher education. Only the most intelligent, courageous and motivated people manage to get one. To do so, one has to excel on exams, and be willing to do things like walk long distances to go to school, endure beatings by teachers, and even move away from home in order to go to h.s.

Similarly, it is difficult to leave those countries. Only people who are willing to work very hard and who also have a lot of courage are able to do so. In many instances, they have to borrow money from relatives to get money to emmigrate, and relatives aren't going to loan out their hard earned money to people who seem stupid or lazy.

People who have come to this country after enduring such hardship aren't likely to have much patience with their kids' being lazy in school, and these parents also aren't going to put much stock in things many Americans regard as important: dating, playing sports, having lots of time after school to socialize, being popular in school. To these parents, it's vital that their kids get high grades, and such parents are very demanding about this.

Add to this that the parents didn't grow up in the US so weren't exposed to a system that assume that blacks were stupid, lazy, incapable of learning, etc. Most native born Americans whose parents were born here are constantly surrounded by systems that assume that if they're black and manage to pass that somehow they're doing wonderfully even if they are very bright.

I can't tell you how often I've seen black people -- intelligent, professional ones -- who think it's a compliment to tell a black male college student, "It's wonderful that you're in college, not jail." What African-American males learn from such statements is that even if they get C- grades, they are succeeding at a high level, and as a result, many set their personal standards low.

This is very different than what Africans and Asians are telling their young people. They are expecting their youth to be things like doctors, scientists, people holding doctorates, not people who simply manage to get through college and stay out of jail.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 03:10 pm: Edit

In response to Sadeyedlady's question: I think that college apps who are US citizens but had African parents are treated similarly to other African Americans.

By Vivian (Vivian) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Ahhh! It feels so great to talking with other Nigerians on this forum. The importance of education is something we all understand. Sadleylady, I appreciate your starting this forum.

(1) I guess you can say that the circumstances of my uprbringing are analogous to that of the typical Asian. That's just the way it is. I think we ALL can relate to that.

(2) I live in Lincoln, Nebraska!

(3) People always ask me to repeat my middle name. It's Chinedu, it means "God guides me" in Igbo.

(4) Hey, I don't go to a Nigerian church, but wow! That would be really sweet! I'm actually Catholic, go to a Catholic high school, etc etc etc.! But each year my family goes to conventions like ANPA (Association of Nigerian Physicians in the Americas) and each year it's always in a different, big city! It's soooo much fun! And you meet lots of cool hot Nigerian guys...oops! =)

(5) Mmmmmm.... I love moi moi. Yeah man, we totally can fry that ishhh up! I love that stuff! And I prefer okra soup over egusi, by the way. =) And of course, can't forget plantains... Yummm... I must admit that I'm not a big fufu fan anymore. I've gotten Americanized, you know the drill...

(6) Funniest Nigerian moment? Well, I go to a school that's mostly white, and every year we have a Multicultural Club assembly, where all a ton of performances are put on by different cultural groups. Okay so like, here's what happened. My mother and like allllllllll her close friends ended up doing this UNchoreographed "shake" in front of my WHOLE SCHOOL, okay? like just picture a bunch of African--NIGERIAN-- ladies "shakin booty," OMG not to mention some of them were nuns (haha) WITH DOLLAR BILLS on each other's foreheads... I couldnt stop laughing, and I went up there, and started shakin too... I believe it was enlightening for the entire student body.

In response to your question, I didn't talk too much about my Nigerian heritage, partly because I didn't feel the need to? My teacher recs said those things. I had another great story to tell, more meaningful than just to say that "my parents emigrated from Nigeria."

I was accepted to and will attend Columbia University!! Feel free to AIM me! My screen name is trisha371

Vivian =)

By Iska (Iska) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 05:42 pm: Edit

The only person to get into Yale this tough EA season in an area covering all of Alabama south of Montgomery and the Florida Panhandle is a Nigerian girl. She is one of only three people in Alabama who got into Yale. She is an academic whiz.

By Princesanegrita (Princesanegrita) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 05:47 pm: Edit

I'm not nigerian.I'm just plain ol' black and I have to say..corny as it sounds my faith in God/Allah has pulled me through..I owe everything to Him. I have also had the opportunity to have an upbringing that included alot of the "black power" ideas of Black Islam (what an experience LOL) and a ton Christianity. Black Muslims (atleast the ones I know) are really hardcore about education and stuff, they also are extremely focused on self-improvement and they love BEAN pies...and bowties. So I guess I'll rep for the plain ol' black ppl

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 07:24 pm: Edit

vivian, what were your stats?

I HATE nigerian food. ugh! i love the music, dress, everything else, but i cant stand tuwo, moi moi, alele, and everything else that goes along with that.

just my luck that that's all my mom cooks.

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Vivian, LOL! (thatz my cousin's name too!)

Your Funniest Nigerian moment has me rolling. I am just getting all kinds of mental pictures. I am glad you go to what seems to be a "culturally-accepting" school because if my my mom would have got up on stage with her giant Gay-Lae, some dollar bills, and some napkins (lOL) performing an unchoreagraphed "booty-shake", I would have been laughed out of school. I can't believe you had the courage to get up there. Wow...
Well, I must admit, I do a little bit of Nigerian dancing of my own (well for the men it isn't really dancing, just kind of moving your feet around and staying in the same place) but only at Nigerian parties and ONLY because there is money involved-(yeah, i know... i'm a manwhore).

Here is a tip. If you're ever at a Nigerian party and you want to get a lot of dollar bills on your forehead, go out there with a bright white napkin and wipe your forehead from time to time making it appear as if you have worked up a really good sweat. It gets 'em every time.

Also, don't go out there and do any American/Non- african dances. I tried that once (the robot) and the crowd of money-givers just disappeared before I could turn around. I was just standing there looking stupid.

Well my DohDoh is burning...G2G

Peace.


tko.

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 10:58 pm: Edit

bump.


tko

By Vivian (Vivian) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 03:08 pm: Edit

LOLLLLLL YOU ARE TOO FUNNY!!

Vivian =)

By Chillinnigerian (Chillinnigerian) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Just stopping by. Here are my stats:
1420 SAT 700V, 720M (Retaking cuz Nigerians are all overacheivers)
800 US History
710 Writing
NHS President
Track Runner (Knee Surgery ruined my career though)
Applying to:
Duke
Carnegie Mellon
NYU
UMAryland
UNC
UMarylandBaltimoreCo.

I think that Nigerian sucess is based on the fact that we are closer culturally to Asians and focus on academics more than most African Americans. It really is wierd to see all of these Nigerians with 1400+ scores when there are only like 700 blacks with scores that high and only 5% of all blacks are Nigerian. I think that it will get better in due time though.

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Parental Nigerian Reaction to my first B:

(a 93% B+ by the Way)(all other grades on the report card were high A's)

Aah-Aah!
Kilo De?!!
What is the Meaning of dis?
A B+, Aah! You dey slack off in class, hah!

Aah, CHIN-EKE! What Kind of life is dis?
Tore-Olorun! Laawd help dis child!
Aah-aah!, Turn dat TV off!
Don't let me see that TV on again, Joh!
Dat tv is ruining yah head!
you also need to quit dat stupid futbol!
Don't let me see anothah B, or you may nevah see anothah futbol in yah life!
Mah-FuEN-TEE-FuEN!!!!!

(they then proceeded to tell me each of their life stories and how they struggled to be the best in the class because they had no other choice...)

I know. Total Overreaction.

But I'm Better for it.

This made me fear my folks a little, but it made me respect them much more. I would not trade having these kind of parents for the world because though all parents know what's best for their kids, many fail to overreact and be overbearing sometimes. By doing this, parents can make sure that their child will do what is best for them rather than just doing what they want to do. Knowing what's best is one thing, pressing it into your kids head is another. Thatz where I think Nigerian parents have the edge...

Nigerian Parents
+ Occasional OverReaction
+ Ocassional Life Story
_________________________
Successful Kids


Well thatz just my $0.01 + $0.01


peace

tko

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 12:48 am: Edit

bump


tko

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 01:18 am: Edit

tko!

that was truly hilarious!

i called my sister and dad to read your post and we kept laughing.

its all so familiar, "What is the meaning of dis!"

Mah-FuEN-TEE-FuEN!!!!! I dont know what that means. is it yoruba?

my parents nag me a lot but ive never felt that they're obsessed with grades and material/social success.

By May_1 (May_1) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 04:41 am: Edit

A day in the life...

May_1: So I got my SAT scores back today. The good news is that I got a 1530.
Mom (a non-African foreign-born black): (in a tone that sounded like I told her we ran out of pens or lettuce) Oh. How much better was that than your last test?
May_1: 40 points. I know it's not that great of an improvement, but at least I got an 800 on the verbal.
Mom: Well, what happened with the math portion?
May_1: I dunno, but I'm pretty happy with my scores.
Mom: How did you do in that math class, again?

Followed by subtle digging at my math score...

By Destaany (Destaany) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Hey guys! Great to see strong Nigerian presence here! Growing up as an Igbo, i've always been pushed to be at the top of the class. And while my GPA (3.63) and SAT (1300) are GREAT for Black Americans, its mediocre for an African.

Its only with African parents that a 3.6 is not good enough, isnt' that funny?

By Kaysouljah (Kaysouljah) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Oh my Oluwa[God ] i can't belive this ,a nigerian tread going on.
E Ku application[ well done in your applications ] .My name is Adeniyi Adebamiro :Ah-de-Ni-Yi Ah-De-Ba-Mi-Ro.
I stay in Lagos ,Nigeria [ the toughest place to live in this world].I finished secoundary school last year ,July 2002 [O levels.]and I did the SAT and TOEFL this year and i am applying to the following schools.
Harvard
Princeton
Williams
Colgate
Yale
University of Maryland
Allegany
Oberlin
Howard
Temple

My SAT : m-710 / v- 740.
when my mom saw it she was Mad i mean Mad ,she then proceeded to lecture me about her family story and life story for the 1000th time.
My Toefl 280/300
Since i had the best toefl result in my school she didm't bother to comment.
i am going the extra mile of doing the SATII in jan.

It so amazing how many Nigerians are in America ,Over here they see america as heaven where the streets are made with gold.
My mom is poor 2000$ a year with 4 kids, so i will be asking for a lot of finiancial aid .

Most nigerian youths are very ambituous to be rich,that's the dominant trend in the country so they try thier hands on anything ,anything at all to make money .The main botton line is that our economy is very very BAD ,it so BAD, this is the reason for the money driven nature of a nigerian.

Well O Da bo [bye bye] , and i wish all u Nigerian Outrageous success in any thing you do .
NOTE : we dont live on trees ,we are noy monkeys ,we have phones, internet ,cars and all ,Their is always that misconception about Africans.

By Tkoplaya1 (Tkoplaya1) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 03:23 pm: Edit

KaySouljah,
Pele My Dear,

Adupe Lowa Lowa, mo Ru KoY is Toluse Olorunnipa (I know it's really bad Yoruba... You'll have to teach me some words so that I can impress my parents.)

Congratulations on your SATs and TOEFL.
I think you have a good chance of getting in to many of the schools you are applying to.

Mofeh (I want?) to go to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Emory, Duke, or FSU ( I'm also applying to Oberlin and Howard.)

However, I don't know if you would like Oberlin. Oberlin, Ohio is a very small town compared to Lagos (12,000 people.) Also, one of the dorms there is called the African Heritage House. I was offended by all of the paintings and murals that portrayed the negative/primitive aspects of African culture (i.e. Women running around naked, wild animals roaming through the towns, huts,etc.) There was nothing that showed the advancements that have taken place in African technology and other areas.
Living in America, I've noticed that there are many people who still think that Africa is a place where animals run wild and nobody wears clothes (the media has had a big influence on that)but there are also many people who know about the good things in Africa and are eager to learn more about it.

Well, i've rambled long enough.. I think that Harvard is a good school for you.

Good luck in everything and God Bless

Peace

tko

By Kaysouljah (Kaysouljah) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 10:33 am: Edit

Hi Northstarmom. that notion about africans walking long distance to school , and been beaten by their teachers is total crap .Africa has numerous urban cities ,for example in Nigeria alone their more than 30 urban centers .In lagos the population is over 6 million ,In Ibadan it's about 3 million ,In Kano it's about 5 miilion .We have thousands of secoundary schools and about 60 higher institutuion including 30 universities .The most prestiguos being University of Ibadan founded in 1948. We have tons of computer centers and supermakets and almost everthinf you will find in a typical large urban center in Lagos.
Thoug i agree their might be cases of those above mentioned treatment in some rural areas it's not as popular as you might think it is
peace ,I just wanted to express my view

By Kaysouljah (Kaysouljah) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 10:33 am: Edit

Hi Northstarmom. that notion about africans walking long distance to school , and been beaten by their teachers is total crap .Africa has numerous urban cities ,for example in Nigeria alone their more than 30 urban centers .In lagos the population is over 6 million ,In Ibadan it's about 3 million ,In Kano it's about 5 miilion .We have thousands of secoundary schools and about 60 higher institutuion including 30 universities .The most prestiguos being University of Ibadan founded in 1948. We have tons of computer centers and supermakets and almost everthinf you will find in a typical large urban center in Lagos.
Thoug i agree their might be cases of those above mentioned treatment in some rural areas it's not as popular as you might think it is
peace ,I just wanted to express my view

By Kaysouljah (Kaysouljah) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 11:07 am: Edit

Hey sorry about tha double posting
Tolu wassup or bawo ni ,bawo awon a buro ati egbon e, ki mummi fun mi ati dadi .
I love lauryn hill, her miseducation album is so popular in lagos people still listen to it up till now.You know Nigerians they only listen to the hits song of a period and move on with time.
You Mum story is a protype of a Nigerian Succes story. Born poor ,struggled through childhood, extremly hardworking and motivated ,Luck must have come later or was the hardwork extaordinary ,Then became succesfull and finally went to America.Well teh Sad thing only about 1 in 10,000 Nigerians have such story
I would hate oberlin ,only 12000 in a town ,in the university of lagos there are about 14000 students there.
Hey i have talked for long ,i don't have a personal system ,so i have to buy time in an internet center to browse.i am surrounded by professional swindlers ,people over there must be really gullible .
peace
Niyi Adebamiro

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Kaysoujah,
What I know is that the Nigerians who are middle aged adults, and who emmigrated to the US to get an education, endured lots of hardships in Nigeria and in the US.
For instance, a doctorate-holding Nigerian college professor told me that his village (yes, "village," not "city") chipped in to send him to college in the US. He was selected because he was the smartest young person in his village.

He went to school in Mass., and didn't even have a winter coat. He worked some kind of menial job each day until the wee hours of the morning, and despite that, was still expected to make straight As.

He told me that if he had flunked out of school, etc., he would have felt suicide was a preferable alternative to returning home.

Now that he is a successful, doctorate-holding, department-chair American, he sends $ home to help his family.

Of course, he's raising his several kids to be academic achievers. He knows that if he could succeed under very tough circumstances, his kids can be academic stars easily since they also have a very cushy lifestyle.

While I have not visited Nigeria, I have visited other African countries, including several universities as well as secondary/elementary schools, including in smaller areas. I have seen students who walked miles to school, and who had to achieve despite not having textbooks or even shoes.

I also saw the same thing in rural Jamaica.

Certainly all students were not hard working. However, many were, and those who were hard working were far more industrious about pursuing education than are most Americans of any ethnicity.

I saw that even students who clearly weren't that intelligent were spending time after school doing their best to learn. I remember asking a S. African parent why his elementary school-aged son was working so hard in an after school program: "He knows education is his only way out of here," the dad said, referring to the depressed township where they lived.

Meanwhile, for Africans who somehow think that they are superior to African Americans because on the whole African Americans don't emphasize higher education success as much as Africans do, keep in mind the following:

During the long period of enslavement (and do remember that African Americans were enslaved for a longer period of time in the US than they have been free), not only was it illegal for African AMericans to learn how to read, they risked death, mutiliation and being sold away from their family if they did so. Despite this, some slaves did learn how to read: Frederick Douglass is an excellent example of this. His biography should be required reading for everyone.

After slavery, it still was difficult for black Americans to get an education. In many parts of the US, their schools deliberately were inferior to whites. In parts of the South, as late as 1945, black people legally had a shorter school year than white students did. This was so blacks were available to work the fields.

Blacks who demonstrated intelligence, a great interest in education, etc. also were targets of things like the KKK, so there was an incentive for blacks to act stupider than they actually were. There also were not many jobs for educated black people. In many places, it is not as if having an education conferred any advantage.

When desgregation occurred, what ended up happening was that black students ended up being taught by white teachers, who had been raised themselves in a system that taught them that black students were stupid and inferior.The black teachers who cared about black kids and were interested in helping them achieve lost their jobs.

Understandably, it would be very difficult for black students being taught by white teachers who didn't want to teach them, thought they were inferior, etc. to believe in their own intelligence or to learn well.

From what I have been able to figure out, the idea that talking standard English, being interested in education, etc. is "acting white" began to occur after desegrgation, not before it. I can only assume that when being taught by whites who clearly looked down on them and taught as if every wonderful thing was done by white people, some black kids defiantly acted in the opposite way.

While I have a lot of admiration for the achievemenets of many African immigrants, I do have concern about the condescension many show toward African Americans. I think that having more knowledge about what slavery was like in the US and how its aftereffects continue to affect African Americans would help African immigrants and their descendants look with more compassion upon African Americans.

This also would be in the self interest of Africans because most people in this country do not differentiate between African immigrants and their children and African Americans. Negative stereotypes about black people will affect both groups.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Edited because of double post.

By Kubakloth (Kubakloth) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 02:33 pm: Edit

"We have tons of computer centers and supermakets and almost everthinf you will find in a typical large urban center in Lagos." - Kaysoujah.

So Lagos is just like any other major metropolitan area.
Hmmmmmm.
I spent nearly a decade living in West Africa, so I know a bit about this topic.
Here's a little quiz, Kaysoujah:
How many book stores are there on Victoria Island?
And for that matter, how many public libraries are there in the entire city of Lagos?
I don't mean to denigrate Nigeria; I just think you should be a bit more honest about the enormous obstacles ambitious students face in trying to obtain an education there . . .

By Kaysouljah (Kaysouljah) on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 11:29 am: Edit

I agree,the reading culture in Nigeria is almost ground level zero. There are quite a lot of bookstores in Victoria Island, but they recieve no encouragement from the general public and students, hence they have mostly textbook materials and some popular thriller/romance novels. There are very few public libraries in Lagos ,about 12 or so
The supposed obstacles are not as profound as you say many secoundary schools have libraries with relevant material for the students .My secoundary school Nigerian Navy secoundary school has a very good library [the school cost about 300 dollars per year].
But i would confess the reading culture is really bad and this is cause by the poor economy and whatever in the country .In jo'burg south africa they have excellent facilities, nairobi kenya is a really fine place.
The first time i read a toni morrison or henry james or DH lawrence book was when i got access to the University of Lagos Library ,jesus i read and read like all those books were about to disappear.
Peace
Anyone among class 2008 Harvard should be expecting a black boy from Nigeria there. I will give you all the good news by April.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 12:29 pm: Edit

Johannesburg may have excellent facilities, however from my limited experience visiting S. Africa, including townships, schools, colleges, the places in S. Africa I saw the "excellent facilities" were where white people lived.

For instance, I spent time in Soweto, a poor black community just outside of Joburg, and the facilities were not excellent. I also spent time in Kyalesha (sp?) near Capetown, and the poor, black students were being taught in a school with a dirt floor and no modern amenities.

The country is trying to end the disparities, but it is very difficult and expensive, and the country is not wealthy.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Some africans may have negative attitudes toward African Americans, but it is definitiely reciprocated by African Americans.

in my experience at least.

By Princesanegrita (Princesanegrita) on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 11:05 pm: Edit

I don't know any of you, but I love you. It may just be a personal thing, but any time a black person is trying to be successful, they have my support. I've seen too much separatism, dark vs. light, rich vs. poor to just give way to something that is not constructive. I was raised in a home where Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey were idolized, and where, even though I never set foot in Africa, I had some connection to the entire continent. Most of the really intelligent African Americans (including most of my family) that I know have tried to study, and relate to modern Africans and learn the history of the continent. There are undoubtedly some exceptions, but for the most part we WANT to know. We have no clue where we originated from..I sometimes think thats why we have such identity crises. Remember there are close to no records of births, or deaths, or slave captures..or anything. I think the whole thing about us not liking each other is silly, when people look at us, they see black people. If we as a group are not even treated well, then we should atleast have some type of unity. Because you all have the opportunity to be SOOO successful..and to change many things...we should nip this foolishness in the bud. Maybe our ancestors were related..who knows..maybe WE'RE related. It's corny..but if we want to be heard..we should focus collectively. If any of you are unfamiliar with educational oppression of African Americans I encourage you to read 1) Auto. of Fred. Douglass (northstarmom) 2) Warriors Don't Cry by Melba Beales 3) Death at an Early Age by Jonathan Kozol (i think). Oh and alot of stuff by James Baldwin and Richard Wright and.. to put things in perspective..I suggest The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould..it was a life changer for me. Oh my gosh ..I got my own book club like Oprah! hah.
Dios les bendiga! Y Feliz Navidad a todos..ojala que uds recuerdan la razon por la celebracion! Merry Christmas! One.

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 12:34 am: Edit

I think the 2 cultures are much too different for there to be any real unity.

Africans don't have much in common with African Americans anymore...who are entirely american, as there is not much african about them anymore. yes, we are both "black" but by that logic, shouldn't white germans and white french people be "united?" after all people see whiteness when they look at them.

Are polish americans who came to this country hundreds of years ago "united" with real polish people?

I feel bad that African Americans have an identity crisis, but I also don't feel that they will fill the void with Africa.

I don't think it's separatism or african eliteness or anything. i just think they are much too far removed from africa to be able to connect with other africans.

it's great when african americans want to learn about african culture, but it's just silly when they try to adapt certain traditions.

By Lilpopers (Lilpopers) on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 04:55 am: Edit

Thanks a million for whoever started this thread. I relate completely. My dad is Yourba, and my mom is regular black (haha "regular black").
I was dying when I read all the jokes, that is my family. My sister has perfected my dad's accent and one of his friends who is always asking for ladies numbers is her favorite person to imitate.

The name thing is also very close to home, for example my middle name is Nitewokervwo, which means, are you ready...Watch out who you marry! I mean only a Nigerian can get away with naming their daughter that. And everyone is always saying how long my name is (first is 13 letters) which is getting kind of old.

I am not an overachiving Nigerian kid. I mean I started off as one in elementary and middle school and then sickness kind of took over in high school so I couldn't get as high of grades as my dad wanted me to despite all the lectures on his life story.
Best Nigerian food, I don't know if it counts but jolof rice (sp). That junk is off the hook.

The main thing for me is that I don't act like your typical African American kid, meaning I don't use slang on a regular basis or curse. And in fact most of my friends are Asian or non black, I don't know why, but that's the way it is.
The only problem I see with this is what's going to happen when I start dating, which I won't even mention to my dad because to him the person I date is the person I should marry.
Funniest thing is whenever I bring over any of my guy friends he always ask them are they going to marry me or are they married to me. I don't know if that's a Nigerian thing or just a my dad thing.

I think I should end here, cause this is just really long.
Oh yeah props to Princesanegrita for the book list!!

By Valpal (Valpal) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 01:36 am: Edit

Sadeyed, I found your perception that African Americans have no "legitimate identity" with Africa or Africans to be sad in the extreme. I'll admit that I felt a discomfiting sense of having been "rejected" by you (you, representing "all of Africa") after having read your last post--- an illogical reaction, to be sure, and one which I'm still trying to sort out. I envy your ability to feel entirely rooted in a history, language and culture that is your's alone and not a derivative that you've received as a "hand-me-down". I think that one reason African Americans so desperately seek a validating identity with Africa, is because we can claim virtually no identity with any European culture(an identity which rest comfortably in the background of every white american, whether they consciously embrace it or not). Even our identity as "Americans" is skewed by a hurtful history that, until relatively recently, denied us full rights as Americans, and even legitimacy as full human beings.

However, I do understand your statements, and I've also often lamented to myself that our (African American's) ideas of "the motherland" are so amorphous as to be virtually meaningless. We seem to so desperately need some kind of validating identity, that we grasp for as many disperate ideas of what it means to be African as possible. It really does makes for a dissatisfying feeling of living in a kind of no-man's-land. I suspect that this phenomenon plays an unacknowledged and deeply psychic role in some of the problems facing the African American Community. A sense of self that can claim roots in an ancestral language and culture is a powerful thing.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 02:01 am: Edit

Sadeyedlady,
You rhetorically ask whether Polish Americans are united with Polish Europeans. There are a variety of organizations in this country that are designd to help European Americans connect with the customs of the countries from where their ancestors emigrated.

For instance, people who are of Scots ancestry may get their kids involved in doing things like Scotish dancing, Scotish sports, and then will have annual Highland Fling celebrations.

I remember that when President Kennedy visited Ireland, the Irish welcomed him back "home" even though he was "only" of Irish ancestry, not birth.

From what I have seen, people abroad do feel a connection with Americans who are of their ancestry.

It is sad to me that for most African Americans, this kind of direct connection with our home continent is not possible because due to the slave trade, most African Americans have no idea from which part of Africa our ancestors came from.

I find it insensitive to regard as "silly" African Americans' efforts to learn about and adapt African traditions. I particularly find it insensitive when it comes from people whose parents came from Africa, and who have the good fortune here to grow up enjoying their African heritage as well as general American culture.

A good book for all black people -- African as well as African American -- to read would be "To Be a Slave," by Julius Lester. It contains oral histories of former slaves, and includes details about how the system of enslavement was constructed so that the enslaved Africans lost their language, traditions, etc.

By Roseateshock (Roseateshock) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 02:18 am: Edit

This is very interesting to me even though I am an Asian, not African. What were said here about first generation immigrant kids are very true and it seems that even though we have unique lives, some aspects are very parallel.

By Caliplaya03 (Caliplaya03) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 02:34 am: Edit

all about the igbo my mom is from owerri, imo state

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 03:34 am: Edit

I don't mean to "reject" any African Americans.

I just feel that they are too far removed from Africans and the culture is too different for there to be any real unity.

My personal opinion is that you can't really connect with a country/continent or its people unless you've spent substantial amounts of time there.

I can't "connect" with Australia if my ancestors hundreds of years ago were there by reading books or by talking to Australians.

Same thing with second generation immigrants. Even if you are raised by parents of a country, if you don't remember or haven't seen that country or the people in a long time, you just can't make a connection with it.

It's sad, but I don't think African Americans can really connect with Africa by reading books or talking to a few Africans.

I never said it's silly for African Americans to learn about African traditions. I think that's a good thing.

What's "silly" i meant, is when you see an African American taking some African tradition and twisting it to something completely different
or giving it a weird new meaning.

A country is the land, the language, the people and the traditions. You cannot ever connect with that through books.

By Keepinitreal (Keepinitreal) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 06:16 pm: Edit

US-based Nigerians and other West Africans that make condescending remarks about African Americans may be overachieving, but don't strike me as particularly smart or astute. Your home countries, without exception, are crippled by disease, poverty, corruption, war, illiteracy and underdevelopment. Get real, you aren't "better" than anybody.

Perhaps instead of trying to make yourselves feel good by putting down "regular blacks" (whose struggles provided the opportunity for you to be here and to take advantage of much that America has to offer) you should spend some time figuring out how you are going to rescue your home countries from the bottom of every social and economic indicator in the world.

In that regard, it may eventually occur to at least some of the self-proclaimed "overachievers" that just as the Israelis realized that cultivating an American domestic constituency (American Jews) could benefit Israel (regardless of how "American" the latter were), so might Africans. If you found a way to "connect" with 35 million African Americans, perhaps African issues and priorities would get greater attention in the US government, media, corporate and cultural circles. Perhaps you should see yourselves as ambassadors for your home countries, instead of arrogant (and marginal) twits. Wake up!

By Sadeyedlady (Sadeyedlady) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 06:45 pm: Edit

Yeah, as a sixteen year old, I should be spending time figuring out how to revitalize economies.

I haven't seen anyone here putting down African Americans.

All I am saying is I think the cultures are too different for there to be any real unity.

Yes, Africa is struggling, but it is also an incredibly beautiful place, and the problems you mentioned are not EVERYWHERE, contrary to popular American belief.

And I would not give up being an African for anything, even if it has severe problems. Despite them, you'd never find an African who's ashamed to be African because there are so many rich parts of our culture that make us proud that we would never give up.

It takes time for countries to develop. There is a high correlation between the time a country has become independent and its GDP.

Countries that were just liberated in the 1960's are of course not going to be as strong as countries with unified governments for centuries, like most Europoean countries.

There are so many problems that come with colonization and these are Africa's major problems, and I've never once felt any kind of shame for these problems.

If you think I'm trying to put down other blacks to make myself "feel better" about my country (Why would I need to do that, I've never once felt badly about it) then you've misinterpreted just about everything I've written.

And hell yeah, we are smart.

By May_1 (May_1) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Actually, keepinitreal, if memory serves me correctly, my grandmother was the ambassador from her country. Try reading the posts before making such ignorant claims. We aren't trying to belittle African-Americans, and have no need to do that to make ourselves look better. If anything, our ambition, work ethic, desire to succeed speak for themsleves. You know forget it; everytime I read your post, I just get angrier at your utter ignorance and apparent jealously and spite, so I'll just stop here...and I hope we can all just ignore this fool.

By Davidrune (Davidrune) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 04:03 am: Edit

Ba wo ni. Nigerian no ni mi.

How did this post become one dissing Nigerians? Most Nigerians that are my friends are very dedicated.

And it is BECAUSE we come from a corrupt and "diseased" country. Many of us have experienced and seen the effects of lethargy. This has therefore shaped our views and we left Nigeria to achieve greater things.

Most other african and Americans have lived there whole life, with things been handed to them. You have not experienced real suffering. You whine and complain about your parents, allowance and other petty insignificant things. I hate you generalize. But, you have not stayed at home for weeks or months because there was a strike at your school and you couldn't get your education. You have not seen the streets littered with dead bodies, because of a bloody uprising.

Nobody says that Nigerians are superior. But like many other immigrants from third world country, we are different. And, even though we are as black/even blacker than African americans in this country; one can hardly say that the same situations has shaped our perspectivies.

By Entropy (Entropy) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 05:57 pm: Edit

As an Afro-American, I am extremely offended by what these "Nigerians" are saying about my people. Yes, they maybe messed up because they have not realized their potiential, but I am not ashamed of them. I have many Nigerian friends, including a Nigerian boyfriend (a beautiful Yoruba) who now attends MIT. They are not the least bit condescending as the others on this board, and they have more exceptional stats. They indentify with Afro-Americans and realize to the rest of the world, a black is a black, no matter where he/she is from, no matter what he or she accomplishes. They can be Afro-American, Igbo, Fulani, Yoruba, Afro-Cuban whatever, but as long as there is racism and powers that threaten the existence of Africa and it's peoples all around the world, we all should be fighting for the same thing. If we don't learn to unite and support each other, instead of shoot each other down, Africa will never return to it's original greatness. And to put it quite bluntly, Nigeria does not epitomize Africa's greatness or potiential, not by a long shot. Since you are so trusting to statistics, statistics put you in the same desolate social, political and economic condition as African-Americans. Nigeria and the rest of Africa suffers from corruption, sickness and economic dependence just as Afro-Americans.

I'm sorry, I am not plain ol' black. In fact, I'm far from it.I am AFRO-American and proud, even if I don't have a distinct language or a culture. Mine was immediately destroyed when my enslaved ancestors came here by boat. I am a descendant of the survivors of the middle passage, millions died before and during the ordeal. Many of the battered bodies laid on present day Nigerian shores. Many of the black american slaves were of Yoruba, Igbo, Ashanti, and Fulani ethnicity, including many other ethnic groups present in West and Central Africa. I had to remind my Nigerian boyfriend that when he volunteered at a local tobacco company who according to historical records, benefited from the enslavement of enslaved Yoruba people and is being sued by an Afro-American lawyer because of it.

I have nothing to be ashamed of. I am a high achiever, and I know that if other African-Americans had the same pride, respect, and dignity for themselves, their culture, and valued the connections they have with their ancestors like I do, they could be high achievers as well. They have been in the past, under the most dire circumstances, when they were enslaved and lynched on trees. If it wasn't for the intelligence, cleverness, defiance of African-Americans who escaped slavery, survived torture, and political oppression, you wouldn't have a chance here in America. None of us would. Our spirituals were sung by Chinese students at Tiananmen Square, our Black Panther Party has inspired similar groups among the Untouchables in India who are treated worse than animals in their own land. 1500 SAT by the way, National Merit Scholar (no mere Achievement Finalist), soon to be Physics Major, starting off taking Advanced Calculus III as a Freshman. I could go on with exceptional stats, but it would be irrelevant to what I am trying to say.

I was surrounded by poverty, it didn't change my perspective on life either, only strengthed my character. I got what I want, and unlike some immigrants, I didn't have to kiss anybody's ass or shoot other people down to get it.
And I don't know where you people live, but the typical Afro-American kid does not cuss, is not verbally or physically abusive although admittely some are. A typical Afro-American around my part of town speaks Ebonics, street slang, and proper english, because he has to talk the vernacular of the people he comes in contact with on a daily basis. There is no shame in that.
Don't get caught up in the hype. Nigerians benefit from Afro-American scholarships that were created by wealthy, powerful Afro-Americans.(i.e. Ron Brown scholarship ($40,000) which is given to many Nigerian students annually along with other students of color). They also benefit from Affirmative Action and Equal Opportunity programs, which Afro-Americans died for. So what does that say? I tell you this, you "reigning people of Africa" or whatever the hell you call yourselfs. If you do not wish to affilate yourself with Afro-Americans or attempt to understand and respect our struggle outside of what you see from TV, go establish a scholarship fund for damn yourselves.
And hell yeah, we're just as smart as you. And don't you ever forget it, sister.

By Tujolo (Tujolo) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

who has heard about the nigerian computer wizard philip emeagwali.

By Tujolo (Tujolo) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 08:54 pm: Edit

is a Nigerian American named Philip Emeagwali. He had to leave school because his parents couldn't pay the fees. He lived in a refugee camp during your civil war. He won a scholarship to university and went on to invent a formula that lets computers make 3.1 billion calculations per second. (Applause.) Some people call him the Bill Gates of Africa. (Laughter and applause.)

But what I want to say to you is there is another Philip Emeagwali -- or hundreds of them -- or thousands of them -- growing up in Nigeria today. I thought about it when I was driving in from the airport and then driving around to my appointments, looking into the face of children. You never know what potential is in their mind and in their heart; what imagination they have; what they have already thought of and dreamed of that may be locked in because they don't have the means to take it out...."

By Entropy (Entropy) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 10:26 am: Edit

The same could be said about Afro-Americans.

By Tujolo (Tujolo) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:07 am: Edit

entropy nobody is saying afro americans aint smart,black is black.i also love afro americans.but most afro americans tend to dissassociate themselves from africans thats why some africans are saying this becuase they feel though we are black we r different.i am black african schooling in the here in the u.s.infact i am nigerian ,we have an organisation in my school which is african students association and afro americans still go to join the carribeans where mexicans are.i am not sure about where u live it may not be like that but where i live afro amreicans stay away from africans.also take a look at this link that shows that Black Africans in Britain lead the way in education http://www.careers-zone.co.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=509 .also the link that shows that nigerian ancestry is one of the most educated ancestry in the u.s.a and infact the ancestry with the highest graduate degree tied with iran http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/ancestry/table_01.txt.hey black is black we should support each other

By Tujolo (Tujolo) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:14 am: Edit

sorry the link about eduational attainment of different ancestry is http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/ancestry/table_01.txt

By Tujolo (Tujolo) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:16 am: Edit

i have a lot of information about high academic achievements of nigerians if u want more contact me

By Tujolo (Tujolo) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 03:01 pm: Edit

entropy i will like to meet u u sound cool and i like ur courage .mail me