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It seems like we talk about both of those factors a lot, but I was just wondering, does anyone know which makes a bigger impact in admissions?

I suspect that URM does, but does anyone else have any info on this?

By Elgorila (Elgorila) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 10:15 am: Edit

I think URM.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 11:19 am: Edit

The consistent picture that I'm getting is that the importance of legacy status is declining every year. URMs have the advantage in terms statistical probability of acceptance but in absolute numbers they're pretty low, which makes all the whoo-hah about Affirmative Action pretty funny in a sad kind of way.

By Lhm501 (Lhm501) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 11:41 am: Edit

I don't know, legacies are doing pretty well. Last year when Harvard's overall acceptance rate was @11%, the admit rate for legacies was @40%. Pretty good advantage! AA for the wealthy--ivies dirty little secret.

thedad, do you have any thoughts on this question--After legacies, URM, and athletes, how many slots are actually available for "normally gifted" applicants at, for example, Yale? I think that number would be scary combined with already very low admit rates.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 11:56 am: Edit

Lhm, the answer to the legacy question is going to vary by school but as scary as Harvard is, it's in decline. Just think of what Harvard *used* to be like.

As to the broader and important question you ask, I've tried to dig that answer out at several info sessions and have never received a direct reply. I've heard the number "15 percent" tossed around for percentage of class that's legacies but even that is murky and I don't have a lot of confidence that it's true...it may be but I don't know. Recruited athletes, in terms of absolute numbers, probably outweigh legacies at many colleges.

The best case I've been able to crank out is that legacy/athlete/URM hooks account for 20 percent of a class, the worst case 50 percent...though I've been told in a beat-around-the-bush kind of way that the 50 percent view is too extreme. So let's figure maybe a third of the class is taken up with the institutional hooks.

How's that for a long-winded not-terribly-precise answer?

And, unfortunately, when it comes down to evaluating one's own individual case, it's meaningless except as a way of passing the time while waiting for the decision.

By Yaleeakid (Yaleeakid) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 12:49 pm: Edit

When it comes to actual recruited athletes, Yale coaches are alloted,(and i'm sure most ivie coaches are), no more than 8 Athletes per yea per sport(maybe a little more for football)...their SAT averages are in the high 1300s, low 30 ACTs...and a good majority seem to be URMs.

By Ch2 (Ch2) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 01:01 pm: Edit

A girl in my school is a URM and a legacy to Yale and she applied there EA. I'm sure if you are both it is like an 80% admit rate.

By Eurostar (Eurostar) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 08:33 pm: Edit

There's a girl at my school that's a legacy, URM, and an athlete (although not recruited, she's very good) and is applying to Harvard EA. Yeah, I'd pretty much say she has 100% chance of getting in. Also, perfect SAT scores.

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:24 pm: Edit

I think the URM/legacy thing depends on the legacy. Normally, I think with the same stats, a member of a minority group may have the advantage over someone whose uncle went to the school and never donated time or went to reunions. However, when you get into the situations of having a parent who has donated millions or has a building named for him, my money (no pun intended, sorry!) is on the legacy. SoozieVT has said that she's interviewed talented double legacies who haven't gotten in. Obviously, the legacy admit rate varies by school... as does the URM admit rate.

By Yugekorb (Yugekorb) on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 12:43 pm: Edit

does legacy include grandparents? sry for the stupid question