|By Anon666666 (Anon666666) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:32 am: Edit|
Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, CalTech, Oxford, Cambridge, Columbia, Chicago, IIT, McGill, Johns Hopkins, Heidelberg, Dartmouth, Brown, Berkeley, Tshinghua, Northwestern, Rice, UCLA, Duke, Pennsylvania, Michigan, LSE.
That's it folks - the best twenty-five universities in the world.
|By Marthpodi (Marthpodi) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:35 am: Edit|
|By Anon666666 (Anon666666) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:42 am: Edit|
Umm, please tell me you've heard of McGill?
|By Apguy (Apguy) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 04:27 am: Edit|
If you kicked off Rice for Sorbonne, that would be a good list.
|By Anon666666 (Anon666666) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 04:35 am: Edit|
Ahh, forgot about La Sorbonne! It definitely deserves a top-25 spot. I'll put Rice as an honorable mention, and maybe add Queens, Toronto, Tokyo and Edinburgh as honorable mentions as well.
|By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 06:30 am: Edit|
IIT=Indian Institute of Technology or Illinois Institute of technology?????
|By Thecurious1 (Thecurious1) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:38 am: Edit|
Anon666666: Interesting list. Where did you get it from? Because obviously you're missing some colleges that should be there and have put some that shouldn't be there. Ones shouldn't be there: Michigan, IIT (if you mean Indian Institute of Technology), Northwestern.
Stop making boards like this. They only create arguments.
|By Thecurious1 (Thecurious1) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:39 am: Edit|
Rashmi: Aren't you in India? If so then how are you familiar with all this colleges?
|By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:22 am: Edit|
Well....collegeconfidential.com did the trick!!!!!!
Right now I can proudly say that I know about almost all the 1st tier colleges and quite a few 2nd tire ones too.
And Indian Institute of Technology should definitely be in the list!
|By Thecurious1 (Thecurious1) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:02 pm: Edit|
I don't think IIT is so great as it's made out to be. Probably feels great to people in India but compare to the universities here in USA, I don't think it's even close. And I don't say that out of any bias.
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:09 pm: Edit|
Curious1: For a person claiming to speak without bias, you sure assume a lot about IIT without acutally researching the school. Anybody who actually spent some time researching the school will agree that it deserves to be in the Top 25 colleges in the world.
|By Stanfordhopeful (Stanfordhopeful) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 01:12 pm: Edit|
"Curious1: For a person claiming to speak without bias, you sure assume a lot about IIT without acutally researching the school. Anybody who actually spent some time researching the school will agree that it deserves to be in the Top 25 colleges in the world."
And anyone who has lived in India, mingled with IIT students, visited the campuses and has an inkling of the low prestige the school has outside of India and a select few grad schools in the US will know that it doesn't.
|By Goldberg (Goldberg) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 01:52 pm: Edit|
are you chinese?
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:50 pm: Edit|
IIT has low prestige outside India? You can't be serious? I know plenty of students from IIT who are currently in the best graduate schools in America. As for the quality of students at IIT, the people who are actually smart enough to pass the entrance exam ace any standardized American exam, with the possible exception of the SAT verbal because people in India have a slightly different english vocabulary than people in the U.S. I have spoken to graduate professors in prestigious American universities, and they unanimously agree that IIT graduates are some of their best students. Please expand your currently parochial knowledge of international colleges before you decide to go around bashing schools whose quality you do not fathom.
|By Clickspring (Clickspring) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 04:01 pm: Edit|
It's harder to get into IIT than to any other university in the world, isn't it?
|By Stanfordhopeful (Stanfordhopeful) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 04:04 pm: Edit|
"IIT has low prestige outside India? You can't be serious? I know plenty of students from IIT who are currently in the best graduate schools in America."
Note that I said "a select few graduate schools".
"As for the quality of students at IIT, the people who are actually smart enough to pass the entrance exam ace any standardized American exam, with the possible exception of the SAT verbal because people in India have a slightly different english vocabulary than people in the U.S."
Right. And you know this HOW? Assumptions? Please.
The select few IIT sudents that come to the US for Grad School are at the top of their class. You would expect them to be smart. It also seems that you are forgetting the defintion of a GOOD COLLEGE. It isn't entirely dependent upon quality of students, other factors like facilities, quality of instruction, opportunities etc. also factor in. In all these departments, IIT is -poor. The facilities are old and outdated, there is little to no research going on on-campus and the professors are often inadequate and teach by-the-book. Rote learning is the norm and student creativity isn't common. How do I know this? Because I spent 3 days on the IIT-Delhi campus (reputed to be the best of the three).
"I have spoken to graduate professors in prestigious American universities, and they unanimously agree that IIT graduates are some of their best students. Please expand your currently parochial knowledge of international colleges before you decide to go around bashing schools whose quality you do not fathom."
Oh really? Now, work with me here. You say that these are some of the best students in the world. It would be expected that students of such high caliber would be producing breakthroughs in the field of science routinely, correct? Wrong. When was the last time you saw ANY IIT come up with something new? Has it in the news as often as MIT or Caltech for scientific progress? No.
Show my achievements and I'll concede. Throw at me Old wives' tales and hearsay, I will correct.
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 04:20 pm: Edit|
When I said that IIT is highly regarded by graduate schools in America, I meant institutions like MIT, which are the best America has to offer. I know this because I have personally spoken to several MIT profs since one of my relatives works there. As for your absurd assertion that IIT is not at the forefront of technological innovations, you should know that IIT - Bombay just finished a project that produced one of the most sophisticated robots ever buiit. IIT is also currently taking part in other cutting edge research, and I will post a link to this site once I find it again. Anyway, I really don't see you giving any proof of your points either, so you are in no position of calling my, ahem correct point of view "Old wives' tales."
If you don't want to take my word for it, read what the world's wealthiest man has to say about IIT. http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jan/18iit2.htm
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 04:38 pm: Edit|
I was just reading through your post again and you mention that there are three IIT campuses. Someone who doesn't even know the number of campuses a college has cannot possibly claim to be an expert on the subject.
You say that IIT is never mentioned in the news. Well that is because you live in America and on American news channels you hear news about events in America. Makes sense doesn't it. Even so, I think CBS news or some other channel did a special on IIT, which discussed the true caliber of this institution. Anyway, how often do you even see an American college in the news for a positive reason.
You claim that IIT students simply memorize information without analyzing anything. I suppose the three days that you spent at the "best of the three" campuses gave you the complete picture on how students at IIT study.
|By Mitodnaman (Mitodnaman) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 05:21 pm: Edit|
IIT, Indian Institute of Technology is considered one of the best through out the world. Almost 80-90 % of the graduates of IIT are recruted by major universities and research centers through out Europe and North America. Many have won nobel prizes and many prestigious awards. Only because of reseourses are the MIT's and CalTech's better than IIT, but interms of wisdom and knowledge, no school in the world can surpass IIT. I would be amazed if any one of American students in Harvard and Yale can answer maybe half the questions right on the entrance exam for IIT. Many IIT students study 2-3 years of 5 in the morning to 11 at night even during the summers in order to be a qualified student. Compare the studying to any other U.S. school and you will seen none come close.
|By Evil_Robot (Evil_Robot) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:08 pm: Edit|
So studying makes a university great? It's harder to get into Harvard than IIT. 1 exam != YEARS of actvities and grades.
|By Abcdefg (Abcdefg) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:12 pm: Edit|
"Only because of reseourses are the MIT's and CalTech's better than IIT, but interms of wisdom and knowledge, no school in the world can surpass IIT. I would be amazed if any one of American students in Harvard and Yale can answer maybe half the questions right on the entrance exam for IIT."
Mitodnaman, you obviously are very biased toward IIT. I am an Indian too, but your statements are baseless and, to put it bluntly, idiotic.
I don't agree completely with Stanfordhopeful's feelings about IIT (as I have been to India many times and have talked with IIT students), but I think you are taking it to the other extreme. Like Stanfordhopeful said, "when was the last time you saw any IIT student come up with something new?"
If you think the students at Harvard and MIT are not as bright as the students at IIT, then I suggest you educate yourself further on this subject. Excessive studying and rote learning are not very impressive.
|By Delirious (Delirious) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit|
This whole post should be discredited because the poster included "Tshinghua" (wtf?) in the top 25. There are like a half-dozen schools in China that are better-equiped, more exclusive, and more prestigious.
|By Sdevega (Sdevega) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:03 am: Edit|
university college dublin?
university of durham?
university of london?
university of edinburgh?
university of st andrews?
university of salamanca?
THE UNIVERSITY OF PARIS, THE FIRST ONE IN BLOODY HISTORY?
oh - and i go to rice, and am extremely rice-proud. i think you're wrong about my school; it's awesome for people who are more interested in learning than in primping their standardised test scores.
|By Serene (Serene) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:46 am: Edit|
Delirious: .... Tsinghua is so the best school in China rivaled only by BJU. And undoubtedly the most prestigious. you're probably a bit biased again Tsinghua not to admit that.
|By Parsifal (Parsifal) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 05:19 am: Edit|
University of Bologna is older than the uni of Paris))))))) Italia))))))
|By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 07:41 am: Edit|
All I can say is IIT is right up there with MIT and Caltech. It does not do as much research as it's American brothers because you need money for that and the Indian Gov. can't possibly give away so much of money to research when so many people are going without even the basic facilities(clean drinking water, electricity....)
The students at IIT are also better than most and as good as the best of the students in America.
And you know why I say this???.....it's because I know that I don't have it in me to make it into IIT- I'm simply not that hard-working and not at all intelligent. So what am I gonna do???-I'm not going to work my ass off for IIT. I'm going to take the easier route-study in the States-where I can easily get through to some really good college (SATS are not tough...getting a good report card is the norm.....and we have all the extra-curriculars needed)
1 exam != YEARS of actvities and grades.
|By Thecurious1 (Thecurious1) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 08:59 am: Edit|
Interesting comments people have made here. I think it's an Indian thing to be so defensive about IIT. Almost every Indian I've talked to has been like that. Let me give you a news, you interenational students (i.e. Rashmi), mainly why American colleges recruit you guys. It's not because you're so super smart and intelligent or better than us Americans. It's because they want diversity not only in the "country" but also in the schools. It expands the horizons of us, Americans as well. We build tolerance towards other nationalities, plus learn differnt aspects of the human society. I knew a couple guys in my college who went to IIT. One of them was a professor and other was a grad student. (To blow your bubbles) let me tell you something, they had no clue about some simple questions I asked in Physics. One was a professor of engineering and other was majoring in Neuclear Engineering. The grad student was out TA, and heeellllooooo was that a bummer or what. I had thought IIT was really good until then. But at that point I had to approach the college from totally new angle. And here's the funny part, a grad student (fellow TA of my TA) knew the answer to my question. He didn't right away but he thought out loud and came up with the answer. Until that point I was impressed by IIT, but after that experience I did some research about IIT and it's so called brilliant and smarter than American students, IIT materials. Guess what? They haven't even done a squat even in America or UK. The most proporous countries in the world. If it's an argument that Indian government doesn't have much money to fund researches then why not do big breakthroughs when you come here, have lived for over 15 years in this country teaching at great schools. Plus, the source of funding doesn't necessarily have to be the government, it can be countries poioneer companies too. "Just" like here in America.
Rashmi: I take a great offense to your comment about those student being smarter than us Americans. It shows lack of "genuineness" in you as a person dissing the country where you want to study and make your career. I have seen many Indians here, to be honest with you I don't agree with what you said about the extra curricular activities. They greatly lack interpersonal skills, which I would think you develop when "you go to parties and do many extra curricular activities". You live in a very small pond, and trust me you're going to get HUGE wake up call when (and if) you come to America.
!!DAMN proud to be an AMERICAN!!
|By Thecurious1 (Thecurious1) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 09:00 am: Edit|
Now, about the selectivity of IIT. Think of it this way, someone puts you in an orchad (millions of white apples) and tells you that you have only one bucket to fill with apples and it can hold ONLY 300 apples. You have all the time (like four years) you want to fill it. Now, are you going to fill it with the first 300 apples you see without considering their quality OR wander around and find the best ones? Well the answer is obvious.
Let's look at another scenario. You're put in middle of an orchad (50,000 red apples) and told that there are 100 buckets lined up, each can fit about 600 apples. BUT the first five are going to the best apple sauce comapny so they demand the best quality apples. You'll be rewarded more for fill those first five buckets as fully as possible. Oh also, they like a little verity so throw in some white apples from the orchad (with white apples) next door. But not too many, just enough to bring some interesting flavor to the sauce. BUT here's the another catch, the rest of the 95 buckets also would like to have some good quality apples. Don't have to be all red apples but it'd be good to have as many as possible and some white apples to add a unique flavor. Since you don't want to bring just any white apples but the very best from the next door orchand, obviously you need to be very selective. So what are you going to do?? Well, the answer is obvious again.
So my friends, as you can see it's not that the orchad with a few apples is bad and incapable, it just like to maintain the greater quality even if it happens to be smaller. If the demand is not met and it is required to make "interesting" tasting sauce, we have to add something different. And why not have the best quality of that "something different" to match our demand! But that doesn't mean white apples have taken over the market and "exceeded" the demanded quality!! All it means is they're next door apples adding something new to our taste nothing more nothing less. Besides, we're going to sell the apple sauce to the owner of the white apple orchad anyway, so it's natural he will like some more white apples in it.
(hmmm..... I just had an idea! How about adding some pineapples? I think they have really unique taste. Any pineapple fans here?)
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 12:00 pm: Edit|
Okay, anybody who questions the selectivity of IIT or the caliber of its student body seriously needs to reconsider his/her position.
Quote from Curious1: "Let me give you a news, you interenational students (i.e. Rashmi), mainly why American colleges recruit you guys. It's not because you're so super smart and intelligent or better than us Americans. It's because they want diversity not only in the "country" but also in the schools."
While it is true that schools recruit international students for the sake of diversity, you do not seem to understand the fact that admissions into American colleges for international students is much much more difficult than it is for American citizens. That being said, I know of several people who made it to top American colleges, but failed to make it to IIT. Even though these students were discriminated against in the American college admissions process as internationals, they still made it in America, but could not secure a seat at IIT. I am sure that lots of people like Rashmi can also attest to this fact. If you people are so confident that making it to IIT is a piece of cake, why don't you try. To make it, you need to ace two very difficult and long exams, the easier one of which is posted somewhere on the internet. Why don't you take the exam under timed contditions and see if you would have attained the near perfect score that is necessary to qualify for the next exam?
Curious1, you base your arguments against IIT solely based on your bad experience with some TA. Guess what, as a person who has studied in several countries, I can tell you that every country has its own unique education system. When I first moved to the U.S, I found that I knew far more information than my peers in subjects like math and science but some of the terminology and methods used in this country were unfamiliar to me. So, while it initially appeared to my teachers that I did not know a lot of the material, I convinced them of my knowledge after gaining some experience in the American school system and was moved up to higher classes. I tell you this because your TA from IIT might have had a problem similar to mine. This is true of all countries and someone from Harvard would have a hard time adjusting to the curriculum at say Oxford.
Another thing I have noticed about IIT students in America is that nobody gives any credit to the university when its students succeed. Whenever an IIT student excells at an American university, he/she is always dismissed as one of the toppers at IIT, and IIT gets no recognition. Guess what, most if not all people at IIT are toppers. Most of the top ranked students at IIT move on to entrepreneurial work in India or join the Indian School of Management, which is also a top class school. The American perception that the all the students at IIT are dying to come to the U.S and only the best of them make it is a fallacy.
As a final note, let me assure you that I do not mean to deprecate American colleges in any way. I am merely defending the name of one the world's top colleges.
|By Anotherdad (Anotherdad) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 05:26 pm: Edit|
Its a shame that the data are not available to do a USNWR-type ranking for IIT. It might blow a lot of the competition away with its high peer rankings, a selectivity lower than any Ivy, super high SAT (if they had it), etc. I would guess it would easily be in the top end of the top ten.
|By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:50 pm: Edit|
Nutmag you are so right...
Thecurious1-I'm sorry if I sounded crude or something ... but then you would just have to be here and live with IIT aspirants and current IITians and IIT alums to get the feel of what they really are.
|By Abcdefg (Abcdefg) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:54 pm: Edit|
I really think the other Indians here (I am Indian also; American born though) are getting too defensive about IIT (whether you guys want to admit it or not).
Anybody who has researched IIT knows that it is not a piece of cake to get in to, but it is no more difficult to get in to than an HYPSM-caliber school. The reason some people that were rejected from IIT are accepted into the top American universities is that there are many more top schools in the US. Therefore, some lesser-than-IIT-standard students will get in. However, the best at IIT are no more intelligent than the best at MIT.
I haven't met the majority of IIT students, so I can't make a completely accurate judgment, but based on what I've seen so far, many of them lack interpersonal skills and aren't cut out to be leaders.
Rashmi and Nutmag345, I agree that IIT is one of the top colleges in the world (top 25 at least, and maybe top 10), but it definitely is not the best and, by far, not the most prestigious.
|By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 12:20 am: Edit|
Read the posts more carefully and then you'll notice that I never said that IITians are better than MITians.They are at the same level.
I have said this before and am saying it again:-
"The students at IIT are better than most and as good as the best(MIT and Caltech) of the students in America."
|By Reject (Reject) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 01:42 pm: Edit|
I am sorry to intervene into such a heated topic about top universities but i think i need to make this point. Referring to the selectivity of IIT, the reason for your perception of such high selectivity is because its only one university. The reason it is much easier to get into AMerican Colleges is because for that exact reason, they are College"S", meaning many and an array to choose from. I am sure if hypothetically, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, Caltech and all of the top US schools were to be combined it would blow IIT out of the water. The fact is our country is fortunate enough to be able to give many options. And if we were to "combined these schools" i am sure the top students from each school would show to be superior over the IIT students.
In addition, the population in India is far more than that of the US, hence making the selectivity harder.More and more people try to get into IIT which again is only school, with on the other hand, US has less people and more elite schools to chosse from. I am sure if our population increased 5x in size (which would be relatively close india's population, correct me if im wrong) then selectivity would be harder than IIT's as well. So therefore, you have to see that this is all relative and based on the situation that currently is seen today, AMerican Schools are much vaster and filled with many bright kids that surpass those of majority of IIT students.
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 09:00 pm: Edit|
Reject, I think that you are missing the point that I am trying to convey. This is not an argument about which country produces a higher percentage of excellent students or about why IIT is more selective than American colleges. It is an obvious fact that IIT is so selective because a huge number of students are competing for just a few spots. Whatever the reasons for IIT's selectivity, the FACT IS that IIT is far more selective than anything imaginable in the U.S, and that the few fortunate students who actually make it are extremely intelligent with great academic potential. Regarding a comparison between the best students at IIT and the ones at a place like MIT, the toppers at both these institutions should be similarly gifted and choosing between the two would be nitpicking.
|By Thecurious1 (Thecurious1) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 11:40 pm: Edit|
Reject: THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
FINALLY a person with sense to understand simple my example of apple orchand. Thank you for making it clear to these America hating, disdaining American system and foolish calling (to Americans) people. I'm just surprised the moderator hasn't banned these people from the CC for bashing us.
|By Scoobydoo (Scoobydoo) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 11:53 pm: Edit|
Hey I agree with you guys. IIT isn't so great as it's made out to be on paper. It's just over popularized university. I seriously don't see how it can even come close to our American schools. BTW, I'm an American whose family origin happens to be India. Now that said, let me tell you that I have had similiar experiences with professors who happened to be IIT grads. This guy was so confused about a problem that I felt sorry for him and said it's ok just so he doesn't feel ambarrassed. Also, I don't think he had any language problems. And even if he did, he could've just explained in an Indian language and I would have understood at least some of it if not all. But the bottom line is you have to know the stuff in order to explain it.
Sorry Indians, you're simply out of luck! I've seen many Indians just go on about this kind of bs and honestly, it's humorous in a way. Other than that, I think this was a good board to start my first post with. Good work CC!
|By Bft (Bft) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 01:28 am: Edit|
Is LSE chinese? Just curious...
|By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 04:09 am: Edit|
London School of Economics and Political Sciences = LSE. It's one of the colleges of the University of London.
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 02:31 pm: Edit|
Curious1, do you even read my messages before you post your illogical and jingoisitc rhetoric? Are you narrow-minded enough to think that anyone praising a university outside the U.S is an "America hating" traitor? Broaden your horizons and learn to appreciate all that is good in this world. And if you haven't read it already, please examine this disclaimer I posted in a previous message:
"As a final note, let me assure you that I do not mean to deprecate American colleges in any way. I am merely defending the name of one the world's top colleges."
|By O71394658 (O71394658) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 04:08 pm: Edit|
Where's Trinity in Dublin?
|By Seventoedsloth (Seventoedsloth) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 09:44 am: Edit|
I dont think it is fair to rank colleges because they may have some good programs while others that are not as good. ie Carnegie Mellon's Computer Science program is better than the one at MIT. I am not sure about their other programs because I have mainly been researching Computer Science programs.
|By Tian (Tian) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:55 am: Edit|
To Delirious (Delirious) : Tshinghua is one of two best universities in China, and for most people it is better than the other one. In US, not all the top students in the nation go to Harvard, but in China, most of the top students go to Tshinghua..trust me. And by the way, it should be spelled as Qinghua.
|By Spyaware (Spyaware) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 01:27 pm: Edit|
my parents used to work at Tsinghua University, my father is an associated professor there, and i went to Tsinghua middle school attached to Tsinghua University. Tsinghua is the best engineering school in China, while Beijing University is more focused on social science and humanity.
Delirious (Delirious), please do more research before making a comment, you need to be responsible for the information you spread.
Tian: Qinghua is the chinese way of spelling it, Tsinghua is the English way of spelling, both acceptable.
|By Bitz (Bitz) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:04 pm: Edit|
To speak to the IIT point, while it definitely deserves to be on the list of the best 25 (or 10 ... or 3 even) engineering/tech schools, it hardly deserves a spot on the list of the best overall universities. It is just too specific to engineering. The same reasoning would bump Caltech off the list (although they do have a few non-engineering programs that are top-notch such as economics). MIT would still make the list for their ability to provide world-class economics, linguistics, and (perhaps suprisingly) art curricula.
|By Tian (Tian) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 04:00 pm: Edit|
Spyaware: you went to middle school in China?? Then when did come to US? Are you going to college here (I assume you are still in high school)?
|By Nutmag345 (Nutmag345) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 03:31 pm: Edit|
I really don't want to re-kindle this IIT debate, but I came across this article which presents some compelling reasons for IIT to be included amongst the very best in the world.
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