!!!!! BEING INTERNATIONAL !!!!!!!!!





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Discus: College Admissions: December 2003 Archive: July 2003 Archive: !!!!! BEING INTERNATIONAL !!!!!!!!!
By Chemos (Chemos) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 12:19 am: Edit

i think many of us internationals are concerned. We heard both views: it is advantgeous and it is not.

So which one is it, really?

IS being internationl student helpful or neutral, or god forbid, disadvantageous?

By Stanfordhopeful (Stanfordhopeful) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 12:24 am: Edit

Disadvantageous - always.

By _Pan (_Pan) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 04:03 am: Edit

I disagree. And what about international US Citizens?

By Wharton1986 (Wharton1986) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 06:16 am: Edit

stanford hopeful..
i dont think i could completely agree with your point of view.

according to me if your international your at an advantage if

1)-your rich enough to pay the full 35-40 grand and apply for no aid what so ever.
this is really benifical at colleges like upenn which arent need blind to international students.
not too many international students can pay that much money.think about this.china last year had the largest number of students in the states.now get this .china is a friggin communist country which means the government doesnt permit you to pay 40,000 $ pa.that means most of them do actually win scholarships and other stuff.

however no college is gonna wanna take someone on a free ride if they can possibly get a slightly less qualified canidate bringing in those $$$$$ into their accounts.
american students do get quite a bit of aid so your actully paying for some of their education if u go the whole way as far as tution is concerned.

2)your sats are really good.
they count more than anything else if your not in an IB program.
3)theirs no way thhey can verify your ecs.


-----------------------------------------------
so if your looking for aid make sure your super qualified and apply only to lacs.
i know a girl with a 1590 2400 sats .she was like one of the bst debaters in the comuntry and she won an all asia quiz competetion which actually came on tv.she was good at sports.

she got accepted into the ives with no aid however.
eventually she went to duke wheer she still had to pay like 10,000$.

anyway.
im outta here.
peace,

By Serene (Serene) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 08:26 am: Edit

wharton:

"china is a friggin communist country which means the government doesnt permit you to pay 40,000 $"

watch what you're saying. get the facts straight before you start ranting about some country you've never visited before.

Don't take (3) as an advantage.


what does "international US Citizens" mean? US citizens living abroad? Treated as the same as any other US student.


I've heard as international student living in the US may have an advantage since they'd be able to get high SAT scores while people living in non-English-speaking countries would have a harder time.

By Smac86 (Smac86) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 10:01 am: Edit

What about an american citizen studying in someother country [all his school life]? [I'm an American citizen in India... I'm Indian though. But an American citizen]

By Canadian_Idol (Canadian_Idol) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 10:43 am: Edit

I think Canadian students are a little bit more at an advantage than any other students from other countries though. China only sends the most students because of their HUGE population. Canada's population is 1/10 of United States' and Canadian students are accepted almost in proportion to american applicants. (ie. 500 vs. 50).

By Quentin_Compson (Quentin_Compson) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 10:52 am: Edit

What about dual citizenship? I was born in Sweden, can speak the language, but have spent all my schooling here in the U.S. I have both Swedish and U.S. citizenship; is that an advantage/disadvantage?

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Having dual citizenship wont hurt you but it wont help you much. Despite that you will bring some diversity to the campus, do not expect a kinder review of your scores.

However, being international and US citizen, may land you in the minorities pool. That is an issue of race not citizenship.

Whatever your status is, you shouldn't try to fool the adcoms. I would make sure to be totally honest about my background. Honesty goes a long way.

By Zapo1j5p8l1 (Zapo1j5p8l1) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 02:04 pm: Edit

being international sucks...I'm depressed now
Will colleges prefer a math god who scores a 500 on SAT verbal or an U.S. educated international who scores decently on verbal, but isn't a math god? I'm scared because if I were the adcom I'd pick the former...

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Zapo~

Do not sell yourself short. There is no correlation between low SAT scores and being an international.

Nothing precludes you to get a SAT1 score that will be viewed favorably by the colleges. If you are a true international student, they'll cut you some slack. Especially if you take the tests multiple times and show some improvement from one test to the next.

By Zapo1j5p8l1 (Zapo1j5p8l1) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Xiggi,
I think you misunderstood me. I'm an American educated international student, so I have a decent SAT score but am not a math genius. So how will my chances compare with a math genius from say, India or something, who has a bad SAT verbal score? If I'm an admissions officer, I'd pick the Indian math genius because he has much more "potential".
What's the point? It's so unfair (even for the Indian math god)...maybe I should just give up and go to a state college...I feel like crying
To think that if I were a Native American Harvard and MIT would be competing for me...

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Zapo~

You are correct. I didn't know your situation. I still don't understand your despair...

The absence of advantages does not mean that the disadvantages are compelling. You still have the bonus of the diversity and more than probably an interesting background.

By Amagetdon01 (Amagetdon01) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Zapo, if you really want to get into the college you love, I advise that you stop whining and buy one of those SAT prep books and study like hell. In my opinion, anyone has the potential to score a 1600 on the SAT's provided that they study enough. Anything seems impossible until you actually do it.
And also, you're stereotyping the math geniuses from other countries if you think all of them will score bad on the verbal section. There are those who work until they nose-bleed and score high on both sections. Certainly, those people are the ones you're going to compete with in life.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 11:30 pm: Edit

i know someone in china who got into Harvard with no aid. paying the entire 40 grand.

whoever said whatever they said was wrong. china may be communist but they still have a mixed economy, although not as great as the US free enterprise system.

By Canadian_Idol (Canadian_Idol) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 01:02 am: Edit

zapo: try applying to MIT. They usually (I think) don't care much about your verbal score. As long as you stand out enough as a mathematical intellectual you should be fine.

By Anorchard (Anorchard) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 05:04 am: Edit

hey all...what zapo is saying is that he's not a math genius, but is much more..hmm...well-rounded...

zapo: don't worry, being international can be an advantage that way, they do cut some slack, especially if you haven't been in the states for all that long.

i'm an international too, enrolling in Umich this fall. i guess it helps that i'm able to pay for my education, without fin aid. i think that this is the only really obvious disadvantage there is.

if you have pretty good stats, ecs, the usual, most colleges will want to have you, for sake of diversity if nothing else. futhermore, most top colleges see themselves as grooming leaders of the world. if you've got suitable potential, they'll be happy to have you

By Zapo1j5p8l1 (Zapo1j5p8l1) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Anochard,
Can you post your stats and which schools you applied to please?

I plan on taking a loan so I won't have to apply fin aid...what are some problems with this idea?

Here's my stats (also in Chances forum)
3.9u, 4.5w
SAT I v 780 m 800
SAT II taking in October
AP: not here yet
4 or 5 of 550

Mostly academic EC's, except private piano lessons
Some, not much, volunteer
Math/science awards

Schools I plan on applying to for engineering:
Cornell (ED)
Carnegie Mellon
UT Austin (safety, I live in Texas)

Is UMich better than UTAu enough to justify the out of state tuition? (my visa allows me to pay in state tuition for UTAu)

By Anorchard (Anorchard) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 04:41 pm: Edit

sorry for this late reply, i was out with my gf.

i'm singaporean. going to umich this fall as i said earlier. fortunately for me, i didn't need fin aid.

here's my stats:

SAT: 800m/700v, didn't take SAT II cause i was busy with other stuff. I only applied to Umich in fact, but i was pretty sure i would get in. i wonder if i had been more ambitious, what would have happened. i did apply to LSE in the UK, but i wasn't accepted.

for those taking brit O and A levels: know it's your O levels which count more, A levels are for advanced credits:

for me: O levels: 6 As, 3Bs; A levels: ABBC, but got a A1 for my GP: that helped i believe...

as for ECs: i was national youth for a sport, was in a few committees, average community service and a few other things as well...in was in the army before this, attained a pretty high rank as well..that might have be good.

recs: not bad i guess, could be better if i was a better student...

essays were ok i think

Zapo: you have great stats, really, i'm sure you can do really well for your SAT IIs. however, your ECs aren't fantastic, this could be detrimental. you should get in UT Austin, but the other 2 will be reaches, i'm afraid. if possible, pick up a sport or something other than academia. this helps with the 'well-rounded' aspect of your application. that said, being an international, they might be a bit leniant, but not very much so i believe.

you might try applying to some schools for fin aid. taking a loan is inadvisable, even though interest rates are low at the moment.(at least over here anyway...) you don't want to start work already in debt...if not, try a scholarship? you can look them up on the PR website i think.

also, Umich has a fabulous eng school. especially for EECS i believe...i'm not too sure...anyway, if you can afford it, why not? you probably would be a competitive applicant, because they really look at your stats and class results.

anyway, hope this helps, best of luck to you. anyone else wants stats eval?? haha...


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