How do you create connections with colleges?

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Discus: College Admissions: December 2003 Archive: July 2003 Archive: How do you create connections with colleges?
By Sandy (Sandy) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 10:18 pm: Edit

I have heard a lot about getting in contact with colleges. How would you do that? What would you talk about? I understand that after you have an interview, you send a Thank you note. After a campus visit, you might send the admissions office an email saying how much you liked the campus and blah blah. What if you can't visit the campus and your interview is all the way in December or some other time? I have always heard about being in contact and showing your interest somehow, but how? I am so lost. You can always request a view book and an application online by filling out a form, but that is no real way of showing interest. What is this whole deal about?

By Dadster (Dadster) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 10:31 pm: Edit

Hi, Sandy. Most colleges will have a regional admissions rep assigned to your area. This person will be your primary point of contact, so you should try to identify him/her.

In some special cases, another contact may be important. Athletes hoping to be recruited should be in contact with the appropriate coach, and students doing truly advanced work in a specialized field may want to be in contact with a prof in their intended field of study. Audition-based majors may have other contact needs, too.

But for a typical situation, find out the name of the regional rep and stay in periodic contact with him/her.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Hey! well i took the first step by emailing the regional Cornell admissions head just a few days ago so i will try to help (although i really had no clue what i was doing.)

anyways, this is what i did. the woman in charge of Ohio admissions came to a nearby high school to do a presentation on Cornell a couple months ago, and at the time, i didnt know she was the head of admissions for my area! i just thought cornell was paying her to give presentations.

so after MorganTruce told me that i should contact them before my app gets there, i looked in the Cornell website and found that Ms.Hernandez was indeed my regional admissions rep. i emailed her about how i enjoyed her presentation and appreciated her time in coming. then i told her about my love for Cornell and how i've been wanting to go there since 7th grade because of the beauty of the campus and how i loved Ithaca and stuff (a couple sentences). at the very end, i asked her a real question i had about which college would be best for me to apply to.

i suggest asking one well thought out question at the end so they have something to respond to other than "thanks for your interest in (fill in the blank college), look forward to reading your app."

she was really nice. she replied to my email with a fairly long email in response to my question, gave me some helpful links, and directed my email to the head of the biology department as well. she ended the email with "thanks for your interest and i look forward to keeping contact with you in the future. feel free to write back!"

she was realllly nice, and im assuming most admissions officers are similar. just write a nice letter, show interest in their college, and ask a few thought-provoking questions. make sure to proofread it for errors and let your personality and passion for the school shine! i was actually proud of my letter when i finished it (haha isnt that weird?).

hope that helped!

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 11:56 pm: Edit

You have to be a little creative. Since the college wants you to purchase a $160,000 product from them, you certainly have every right to ask the salemen questions. So don't be shy.

On the other hand, you don't want to pester them endlessly with questions that could be easily answered with five minutes on their website. This is an area where I think a student/parent partnership can be a positive. High schools don't teach the art of the "schmooze", but a lot of parents are good at it, since it's a pretty essential job skill.

So think about your application and what things you might be interested in. For example, say that you are studying Russian in high school. It would be perfectly reasonable for you to ask for information on a Russian major. Do your research on the website. Find out the chairman of the Russian department. Find out how many Russian majors they've had recently. Then, write the Russian professor a nice e-mail noting your interest in the school and asking for information on the Russian program. Either stated or implied, your interest is information to better help you make up you make up your mind about whether their product is the one you want to buy.

Substitute anything for Russian. Maybe it's community service programs. We did some "research" on this one over the weekend for my daughter's first choice school. We found all of the community outreach/tutoring programs at the college and can rattle off the names and what they do. We found the staff administrator and a couple of articles she's written. We found a series of news articles in the campus newspaper on the umbrella organization and its funding troubles, including having their budget control yanked (smells like disarray).

We found that they have a two-year old major endowment for a new college rum community service organization, but not much seems to happening with it beyond a couple of a grant money deals. Right now, students who want to do inner city volunteer work have to pay their train fare from the campus out of their own pockets.

Seems to me that a potential student interested in active community service during college has some legitimate questions to ask in determining whether Podunk U. is the right place. What other programs may be avaialable? Will the budget troubles affect the future of the existing programs? What campus leadership opportunities may be available in this area? (looks like there's a need) What are the newly endowed grants being used for? These legitimate inquiries can be worked through the admissions office or through the staff administrator with cc's to the admissions office.

Doesn't hurt that my daughter is doing full-time inner city youth program volunteer work this summer in the grand-daddy of all university community service organizations -- one that puts the community service organizations at ALL of the schools on her list to shame. She's been training for the past two weeks and she taught her first three math classes today -- said the 9-10 year olds were a piece of cake, the 11-13 year old boys a bit more challenging.

Who knows? Maybe she has something to offer to a college? At the very least, any questions she might ask of them as she makes up her mind on a college won't be coming from left field.

Meanwhile, the message is clear: a student who is interested in an area of campus life, interested enough in the college to find out some things that aren't in the color advertising brochures, and serious enough to ask questions. Those are all positive messages.

I suppose the only risk is becoming a "noodge" or a pest. But, if you look at the reality of the acceptance rates, what do you really have to lose? At least, you can go down fighting!

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Probably by now someone from the Biology department has emailed you in reference to the heads-up from admissions.

Please remember---if and when you write an email to the Biology department--be SURE to cc: the woman you know at admissions. (Leave the professor's comments at the bottom.)

If several months go by and you still haven't heard from the Bio dept, it still would be a good idea to email them at the address she gave you and try to start a little dialog.

Always cc: admissions.

What a pest I am...!

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Sunshine, where do you find the Regional Admissions Heads?

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:14 pm: Edit

it was on cornell's website.

that was the link i used, but thats specific to cornell. i'm sure they have a listing on most college websites, and if not, you can email admissions (in general) and ask about it.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:15 pm: Edit

they moved the thread!!!!!

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:28 pm: Edit

They did.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:47 pm: Edit

i thought they deleted it along with the resumes and cover letters one! i started spazzing because i didnt copy or really take in any of the info on cover letters, and i was really looking forward to writing mine. :) also, i still havent emailed the "new guy" from Cornell and wanted to see what Morgantruce wrote one more time.

yay they didnt delete it!

By Sirmoreau (Sirmoreau) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:56 pm: Edit

Sunshine, I wish YOU - a qualified applicant who has the desire to go to Cornell would hop in my shoes. Because I don't deserve it and most likely would not have the ability to fit in!

I'm sorry I kind of ruined this thread with my rambling of foods and chinese movies and only god knows what else we pondered across.

I promise this will finish off my rambling on this thread for good --
I should inform you that I had the worlds most delicious steak tonight, along with large shrimp skewers marinaded in this wonderful blend of garlic and vegetable oil . This is something we can ALL enjoy - from coast to coast!

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:27 am: Edit

What about International Students?????....... Are there any International admissions rep ??????

and how early in the game do you start pestering them???

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:58 am: Edit

If there are reps for international students, no college would hide that fact on their web site. Why is everyone so shy? Contact ANYONE at the admissions office! If they cannot handle your situation, they will pass you off to the proper party. It is NOT a big deal.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 03:13 pm: Edit

they deleted half of this thread too!!! ahhhh administration!!! sry i love them and all for deleting all the inappropriate posts but they deleted THE two posts that i really needed but never saved before. :( oh well i shall live.

Sirmoreau-im sorry that your family pressures you to go to cornell. i wish i were in your shoes too (:)) but im not. if you have the connections, why not? but never get forced into something as big as a college decision. dont be unhappy for 4 years of your life.

By Shannon935 (Shannon935) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:43 am: Edit

You said that after a campus visit and interview, you should send thank you notes or something saying how much you enjoyed it. Where would you direct it to - the admissions office in general?

By Jrc007 (Jrc007) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 12:19 pm: Edit

Where do you find the e-mail addresses of the various professors?

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Questions and more questions....

Here's some clues to get you thinking on the right track:

Shannon--When your cousin gives you a gift, who do you send the thank you note to? Her grandfather? Or...? Think about it.

Jrc---please tell me what you have done so far to find the addresses that you need, and then I will tell you exactly where to find them.

By Shannon935 (Shannon935) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 05:03 pm: Edit

So I should seek out the e-mail address/postal address of my interviewer and write him/her exclusively, and write the admissions office in general when remarking on a campus visit? It's notable to mention that all my correspondence concerning campus visits (open house registration, questions) has been done with I suppose that is the e-mail I would write to.

By Lick_My_Beanbag (Lick_My_Beanbag) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Ok, these regional admissions counselors for cornell... Are they the ones who will be reading your app and deciding if you'll get in?

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Beanbag, no they don't. Cornell admissions is done by each prospective college, which has its own respective admissions committee (you can only apply to one college at Cornell, I believe). There are professors from that college involved in each college's adcom (I mention this because in a lot of selective colleges, professors aren't involved at all).

But, the regional admissions heads pass along stuff to the information about your school, the area (is it affluent? diverse?), and possibly...YOU (which is why I contacted mine). Cornell has the regional reps. on their website, but I've noticed that many colleges don't. In that case, you might call the admissions office and ask for their E-mail. In most selective colleges, those are the people who spend 30-40 minutes reading your app, and who present your application to the other members of the admissions committee.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 07:02 pm: Edit

hey 0713, did your regional admissions guy write back?? :) did he say anything useful? im just wondering...

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Yes, she did. I talked to her about visiting. She gave me a link to the CA & S and talked for a couple of paragraphs about visiting and the campus. She offered some suggestions and said to ask if I ever need any help.

I just today E-mailed her back thanking her.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 08:13 pm: Edit

i got your email :)

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 08:18 pm: Edit


By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 09:50 pm: Edit

Usually, interviewers hand you a business card with all that information. Look on the college's web site under something like Admissions/staff or perhaps the Directory/administrative and look for the name.

As a last resort, there's nothing at all wrong with phoning Admissions and asking.

Oh, here's one last clue: If you know the first and last name, you can sort of guess what his email address would be---based on what other addresses in that department are formatted like. maybe? (hmmmm... there's an email address I guarantee will bounce)

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 01:18 pm: Edit

I have to differ with one comment made above about regional admissions counselors NOT being involved in the acceptance decision process. While this may be true for some larger schools, at many smaller schools they are very much involved in the decision making process. Part of their job is identifying and recruiting good candidates. They may not always be the ones to make the first decision on YOUR application, but they do have sway in the process. If you've met them, asked reasonable questions, and kept in touch they can have a major impact. For example, a friend's daughter was in contact with the regional admin. rep for her first choice school. They met locally twice and she emailed him with questions several times.
Then she got word that a big scholarship specifically for that school that she was hoping to apply for had been cut by the foundation offering it because of the economy. She emailed the admissions rep who then went to bat for her to convince the foundation to keep the scholarship for at least this year's freshman class. She eventually won the scholarship. The admissions counselor knew from talking with her that she was a very strong candidate who the school really would be lucky to get, and that she couldn't go to that school without the scholarship. If she hadn't had prior contact with him, I am not sure if he would have been as proactive. I don't think anyone can go wrong with making contact with the regional rep and finding out their travel schedule. If they are going to be near you, try to arrange a personal visit/interview if you can't travel to the campus.
Good luck!

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Carolyn, I acknowledged that in my post. At Cornell specifically, the regional reps. aren't really "at the table" when the decisions are made. But they can pass along information regarding the student's school, area, and possibly the student themself (if they've taken the time to establish contact). At many, if not most colleges, they are the very ones that present your application to the admissions committee. So establishing contact there is crucial.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 02:00 pm: Edit

There are a (hopefully growing) number of students who are beginning to see that making contacts with colleges in advance of actually submitting applications may be of some benefit to them. A great majority of these students have no clue where to begin, what to say, or what flavor to give such communications.

What would you say to them? (sorry to put you on the spot, but it appears that you would be a good source of direction in this area)

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Morgantruce - I think you said it best in another post when you said college applicants need to think like marketers.

There are two elements that all marketing pro's use in every successful marketing campaign: they learn as much as they can about the potential customer and they develop a clear picture of how what they're selling meets the needs of the customer.

In this case, the colleges are the customer and the student is the marketer (I know, you're going to spend a bunch of money with this customer...)

At the very least, students should spend time digging through the web sites of their top college choices. I'm often amazed at some of the questions students ask on cc --- I click on the web site and usually within 30 seconds I can do a search and find the exact answer the student is looking for. This tells me that many people aren't really looking at the web sites to learn about their potential customer.

The top things you should look for on every college web site:
1. information about how the school sees itself - what is its mission? What does the school brag about most in terms of what it does for admitted students? What is is its history? What values seem to be most important to the administration?
2. information about the school's core requirements - what does it expect each accepted student to be able to accomplish during the next four years?
3. information about the department(s) you're most interested in - how do they see themselves? What are the backgrounds and interests of the faculty? What special programs does the department sponsor? Are there unique facilities or research opportunities? Does the department mention what alumni go on to do?
4. Finally --- only after you've found all of the above --- should you look at the admissions section. If you've done the first three correctly, you probably won't be learning a whole lot new in the admissions section, except perhaps a bit about stats of successful applicants.

Notice, the one thing I don't mention above is how the college ranks in any guidebook or survey.
Skip the prestige factor. We all know what the most prestigious schools are, don't waste your research time seeking the latest ranking. Instead look for REAL information about the school.

How do you find all of the above on a college web site? Here are several places to look: the school's news bureau or p.r. department (look through the press release archives), the school's
student newspaper (look especially for stories about the administration or faculty), the alumni section (usually the school will toot its own horn here about exciting new programs), the catalog (usually on each web site - the place to find out exactly what the core requirements are), and the department pages. Another good place to look is at the school president's site - often they will have a letter explaining how the school sees itself or how it is trying to change its image.

OK, so now you have a bunch of information about this dream school. Write up a few sentences describing how the school sees itself and its students. Don't worry - this is just for your eyes.

Now it's time to take a look at YOU and what you have to offer. I'm not talking statistics at this point, but rather how you "fit" with this particular school's image of itself and its students. Of course, you need to have the minimum stats to get considered but look beyond that: why are you the type of student this school is looking for? For example, does the school seem to stress everywhere that they are proud of independent research on the part of their students? OK, do you (1) like independent research and (2)are you good at it (or can you become good at it)? Make a list of examples of how you've demonstrated this. Again, this is just for your eyes. Be brutally honest. For example, if the school seems to stress independent research and you absolutely hate long hours in the lab or library, keep looking for another school.

OK, so now you have a picture of how the school sees itself and some ideas of how you fit with that image. I hate to sound simplistic, but at this point you should also have several ideas for possible "contact points" to make with the school: questions about programs that really interest you but weren't fully answered on web site or in marketing materials, questions or information on new labs/programs/developments that relate to your needs or interests. And, you also should have a very good idea about how the school relates to its students. If its a huge university that doesn't seem to stress personal relationships with students, then all the contact in the world probably won't matter as to whether you get in or not. If it's a school that stresses personal relationships, contact is good. If it's a school that seems to be somewhat informal in its relationships with students, informal contact can work to help them think of you as a fit while more business like formal schools may think more of a very formal approach (i.e., handwritten thank you notes for school one, formal business-like letters for number two).

Finally, don't be totally upset if you can't think of something to contact a school about --- all is not lost. Certainly the majority of accepted students won't make contact beyond the application. However, having the information above about the school and its values, can still make a difference in what you choose to say on applications or in your essay (for example, if a school has a strong student honor code, you might tailor your essay to show your own sense of honor without necessarily mentioning the school's honor code).

All of this may sound like it takes a lot of time, but to be honest, I find I usually can find all of this in less than half an hour or so and it gets easier with each web site you look at.

I hope this all helps - these are just my own thoughts as a former marketing manager. Use what you will but please! at the very least do some research at the school's web site. If nothing else, it is good practice for the research you'll have to do in college!

Good luck!

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 07:05 pm: Edit

Carolyn, that's some good information. I took MTs advice on E-mails and stuff in another thread. I just E-mailed my Cornell admissions rep. In the E-mail, I basically just said that I'm E-mailing her to introduce myself. I talked about the campus a bit, my programs of interest, and I even mentioned a book I read by a professor there. She replied later that day, and was very cordial and very helpful. I think it best, because now if I i{do} have any serious questions, she kind of knows who I am. I'm probably going to have to call the admisssions offices tomorrow to find out the E-mails of some other college reps...

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 07:18 pm: Edit

I just thought I'd give an example so I went to the web site of Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, Calif -

In less than five minutes I found out the following just on the school's "news and information" link:

- One LMU psychology professor just got a grant from the US Department of Education to study prevention and reduction of binge drinking and violence on college campuses. The press release details how this study will be conducted. If I was interested in psychology, I might email this professor (his name is in the press release) and ask him about his study, how he will conduct it, who will be involved, etc. If true, I might mention my interest in this area as a member of my high school's SADD club.

--Two LMU math profs have just been named carnegie scholars and each will receive a grant from the Carnegie foundation to study their specific research interests. One teacher is interested in developing a freshman level class to help students understand how math might provide a methodology or framework for approaching life. The other prof is going to study how students view math as part of a liberal arts education. If I was interested in being a math major at LMU, I might contact either of these professors with a well-thought out question about this. Or, I might mention it in a cover letter to admissions.

- There were three press releases about a new LMU leadership program for Latino Business Owners -- From past visits, I also know that LMU has a high % of Latino students and faculty. If I was interested in business and was a Latino or minority student, I might email one of the profs mentioned and ask for information on what Latino students need to do to prepare for a career.

-LMU students in an on-campus organization called ARTsmart just worked with 8th grade students to create an environmental fence weaving project. If I was interested in majoring in Art, I would find out more about this project and see if I could relate it to any experiences I myself have teaching art to others. Or, I might find out who is in charge of this artsmart organization and email them to find out more about the group.

-The LMU school of Film and Television just announced that award-winning film/TV producer Teri Schwartz has been named as dean. He's produced films like Sister Act, the Out of Towners, etc. If I was interested in Film/TV I'd read this article for clues about the film/tv program and how its developed. I'd look at the examples of former alumni mentioned in the article and see if it spurred any ideas for asking questions or tailoring my application.

Whew. It took me longer to write these up then it did to find them. And, I haven't yet gotten to all of the information on the site stressing LMU's adherence to "traditional jesuit values." What are those and how could I use them to tailor my application and essay for LMU? I'll let you go to the web site and see if you can find out yourself.

And I haven't even touched the surface - haven't looked anywhere but the news and information link.
This is not an unusual college site --- some have much more information, some a bit less --- but all have information that can be useful in helping you market yourself.

Good luck.

By Uncchlocalmayor (Uncchlocalmayor) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 07:50 pm: Edit

give the school lots of money.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 07:52 pm: Edit

GREAT post, Carolyn.

By Aparent (Aparent) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Carolyn, these are keepers. I have printed out this thread for dd, since I can't ever find a way to send links to individual threads on cc. Thank you.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

If I suspected you were sitting on that gold mine, I would have asked you about it much sooner. Thanks!

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Another source of current information are various email newsletters from colleges--especially from the college president's office. Anyone can subscribe to these free newsletters. Sign up online. The information is usually the most current available and gives a good picture about what is "on the mind" of the college.

The quality and "depth" of college web sites varies greatly. I make it a habit to check out what is going on at the college's library--especially the archives--if the information is available online. While it's true that registered students and faculty have access to much more of the college's online material, surfing all around the public areas is a good way to get a feel for the flavor of the college---and what it might be like to attend.

Doing all of this before you apply makes a lot more sense than doing it after you accept an offer.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:07 pm: Edit

"I suspected you were sitting on a gold mine."

It's little known that that phrase was first uttered by a Roman courtesan upon encountering a vestal virgin.

-TheDad & The Society for the Propagation of History

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:31 pm: Edit

071394658 - Sounds like a perfect first contact with the Cornell Rep. Good job.

I wanted to make it clear that I am NOT suggesting you send meaningless and endless emails and letters to reps and colleges. Avoid junk mail (you don't like it and neither do colleges) Make any contacts count and if you don't have much to say, then don't do it JUST to do it. But, if you can come up with something worthwhile (love 07139's example of a book by a professor), take advantage of it. It shows real interest in the school. And, the research also will help you when it comes time to decide between acceptances.

TheDad - ah sucks, you found out I'm really a vestal virgin LOL!

MorganTruce - I have learned so much from you. Thanks!

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:43 pm: Edit

i contacted one person (regional officer), got an email back from her, another from the bio department (my intended major), and a HUGE packet of all this random stuff (booklets, visiting schedule, map, personal letter, etc etc)

now how in the world did THAT happen???

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 09:52 pm: Edit

dunno... but be sure to answer everyone, and to CC: the admissions office on each reply you make.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Sunshine, that is exactly what happened to my friend's daughter when she contacted the adcom office. Obviously, you said something right in your email to her. Morgan is right - be sure to write a brief but nice thank you to everyone and cc: the admissions office. It might even be nice to write a note to the adcom officer you've already contacted and say something like "Wow. Thanks so much for arranging for me to receive the information. It only confirms my opinion of Cornell."

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 10:21 pm: Edit

What'd you say, Sunshine! You owe me, remember ?

Seriously, I got nothing...just an E-mail back. Grrrr. < A link along the lines of what Sunshine was talking about.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:10 am: Edit

i really didnt say anything very interesting. i think the regional officer (well the old one)remembered me though...i kept asking a bunch of questions at the info session in town (i was the first one there and took advantage of the fact that i was there 20 minutes before the 2nd person. also nobody else there talked at all when it was question-time so i asked like 10). most of the alumni were already there when i got there so they were all talking to me and most asked my name. it was me, an admissions person, and 20 cornell alums in one room for a good 15-20 minutes. my name is also pretty different, so probably hard to forget. the regional adcoms reply seemed like she remembered me at any rate.

i just remember asking about majors and the differnet colleges...nothing off the wall

i will def write thank you letters CC: admissions. what i got was definitely not expected, but im happy :)

sry im not much help...

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