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well i have some questions - those of you who have or will be sending in supplementary materials to show your talent in music or art, plz help me out!

Q1- most colleges only want supplementary materials if you are "EXTREMELY talented" in that area. i can understand since they dont want to be stuck listening to some beginner plunking the piano, but what exactly is considered "extremely talented" enough to be sent to the adcom? like, good enough to get into julliard? internationally famous? just above average? best in your town?

Q2- ok. so here's the thing. I'm a cellist, and i am planning to send in a CD where I play a concerto with my youth orchestra accompanying. i played Haydn D, and for those of you who don't know the piece, there is a maybe 3~4minute intro where only the orchestra plays. I don;t think the adcom wants to sit there listening to that and wait for my solo to come. what should i do? should i record the clips of my solo parts on to another CD, and send that in? also, i have four large solo parts, and in between each there is 5~20 measures of orchestra. total, my solo part is maybe 10minutes. should i record ALL my solo parts? will they wanna hear 10 minutes? or can i just record, say the cadenza (a part i play totally by myself with no orchestra) which is maybe 1~2 minutes long?

thanx for reading/replying!

By Stillwaters (Stillwaters) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Almostdone- If you're good enough to play Haydn D, send in a CD. I would recommend recording the cadenza, though...some adcoms listen to the tapes themselves, without music faculty screening, and not all of them are music buffs, and if the recording isn't high quality, it can be hard to hear a soloist over an orchestra. Actually, the best thing to do overall would be to record a tape that you would feel comfortable sending in for a conservatory audition. Check out the Juilliard audition information site for guidelines on what kind of pieces you should put on a high-caliber audition tape...contrasting time periods/styles, etc. I'm in the same situation as you, btw...except I'm dealing with two instruments and voice. I'm playing Seitz' Pupil Concerto 3 for violin, singing Tacea la notte placida from Il Trovatore, and playing...eh...most likely Fruhlingsrauschen by Sinding for piano. I'm not applying for music, but I might minor, so I figure it would be useful to demonstrate my interest.

Hope I helped...

...Norah

By Momof2 (Momof2) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:06 pm: Edit

A couple of questions first:

1. Prospective music major?
2. Plan to play in college ensembles?

If not, the answers are quite different.

By Almostdone (Almostdone) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 06:24 pm: Edit

stillwaters - thanx for the advice, and good luck to you! WOW not one but three...

oh and momof2-im definitely not going to major in it, so yeah i should i have mentioned that. i AM interested in playing in college ensembles if the chance arises. smaller ones too, but most of all i want ot be in the orchestra. do i even tell them this when i am applying? that i want to be in their orchestra? well now you know...so based on this, what would you say?

By Mitacceptee (Mitacceptee) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:56 pm: Edit

I applied to Princeton last year, and I'll be matriculating there this fall as a freshman. I sent in a supplementary CD to all the schools I applied to, (I play the violin), and I'm guessing the CD got sent to the music faculty, and eventually the director of music. When April came, I got a personal email from the director there saying how much he enjoyed my cd, so I'm guessing that was a big push that helped my acceptance. By the way, I'm not planning to major in music, but I'll probably minor, or just play for fun and join orchestral groups.

For those of you artists out there (and I mean musicians, writers, poets, actors, etc.) there is a national competition that happens every year for all seniors. Check out www.nfaa.org for more info. Hope this helps.

By Momof2 (Momof2) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:38 pm: Edit

OK - that's good. If you are a major, you would have to worry more about the overall quality of the recording and of the youth orchestra. It could be taken as an indication of your overall musical background, which could go either way.

YES - if you want to play in the orchestra, you must make that very clear. If you believe there is a chance you may minor, you should state something like "Although my primary major will be Basketweaving, I hope to pursue a minor in music. I sincerely aspire to being a part of the University Orchestra." I would also ask that they send you any information about auditions, repetoire, etc. That should emphasize the seriousness of your inquiry.

The above should help your CD get routed to the Music Dept., but on the chance it goes through general admissions first, I would be sure to include more than just the cadenza. It is lovely, to be sure, but may be confusing and pretty hard to place in context for a non-musician.

My best suggestion: IF you are really serious about this, you should contact the technician that originally recorded the performance. It should not take much effort to create a custom CD highlighting the solo passages, with the orchestra fading away between portions. He can also easily bring out the solo track without what I would consider tampering with the performance. If there is any extraneous background noise, he may clean this up too, while he is at it. If you explain nicely this is for a college audition/application, I would hope it would not be too expensive. Remember, these folks usually make most of their money during the school and concert season. For comparison, my son cut a 20 min. CD with 8 tracks in a 1 hr. 15 minute session. We got 8 copies with custom labels, for $50, but the technician is a friend. I suspect the regular cost would have been about $100. What you need is much less effort and should be well worth the investment. Congratulations on wanting to nuture your musical talents. And good luck to you - my youngest bro-in-law is also an excellent cellist, so I'm partial.

By Almostdone (Almostdone) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:57 am: Edit

thanx for the reply...-lol BASKETWEAVING! whats with everyone and that topic...just yesterday my friend was saying one of the most popular courses at cornell was basket weaving... thought she was making it up but no her bro goes there and he said a lot f ppl take it cuz its an easy A. ok ive gone off on a tangent...anyway

whoa...thinking about my CD going to the head of the music dept is kinda scary...i dunno if im THAT good...i know im above the average, so my playing could maybe and probably impress the regular adcom, but someone who deals with music MAJORS all the TIME? i don't think so....
hmmm....see another thing is.....theres this one tiny problem if i send the whole thing...i messed up a note in one of the passages, it wasnt for a LONG time, i just forgot what note to play all of a sudden so i played the wrong note. u can tell i lost my footing, even tho its only for maybe a full second at most. should i just not send it in at all? its not possible to record it again, i did this concerto back in march after months of rehearsal and its totally out of my fingers now...
hmmm...should i just record a less flashy piece like the kol nidrei with the piano now?

do colleges usually want to hear two contrasting pieces even if u dont plan to major in music?

By Texas137 (Texas137) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:57 am: Edit

If you don't think you play well enough to have the CD routed to the music department, maybe you shouldn't send it. You could still list all of your music accomplishments and stress your interest in the orchestra and a possible music minor. But maybe you're just being modest?

By Dolce (Dolce) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Re: the basketweaving question. This causes me to recall my days at Purdue, where any "putzy" type of class was referred to not merely as basketweaving, but "underwater basketweaving"! It amuses me to see that 20 years later this fictional class is still joked about.

By Almostdone (Almostdone) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 02:37 pm: Edit

lol...oic so "basketweaving" classes aren't actually where ppl weave baskets...

By Momof2 (Momof2) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:06 pm: Edit

Don't worry so much - you probably aren't applying to Julliard and you aren't asking for a music scholarship, right? It depends a lot on the school, but in most schools, if you can play the Haydn, you can certainly play section cello. Most "non-music" schools can't possible have every string player as a music major on scholarship.

My son will tell you he had 3 cracked notes and one trill gone astray on his tape, but was still offered music scholarships as every school to which he sent it. We heard quite a few bad notes at live auditions; I don't think they expect total perfection from 18 yr. olds. So.......an orchestra needs a heck of a lot more celli than trombones - see where this goes?

Remember, from the music dept.'s viewpoint, they only have a certain amount of award money each year. If the opera dept.'s only coloratura soprano is graduating, they can't waste money on section instrumental players. They WOULD, however jump at the chance to get a good one for free and would very likely put in a call and note to admissions. The system may just work in your favor. I'd sure go for it. For these purposes, I wouldn't try to add any more material - they will call you if they have any questions. Good luck.

By Stillwaters (Stillwaters) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 06:13 pm: Edit

"I don't think they expect total perfection from 18 yr. olds."

Just as a note, if you EVER submit any kind of supplemental material, it better be good, and it better be material that you have NEAR perfection. The truth is, that, just as there are people out there with 1600 SAT I's and six 800 SAT II's, there are young musicians out there who can play material perfectly- that is a mark of strong musicianship. It doesn't matter if you're playing Bach's Minuet in G or Rachmaninoff's Theme on a Paganini. Just make it good, and that will make your material as impressive as your application.

By Momof2 (Momof2) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit

I still believe it depends on what you are going for. Very good may be all you need to fill a slot in a college orchestra, especially for strings in a "non-music" school. If it is enough to get invited for an audition, it might help with admission. If not, I certainly don't think a solid high school performance with one or two wrong notes would ditch an application for say, a science or history major - especially a live performance with orchestra.

I agree, an audition for admission to a school of music and/or scholarship would require a higher level and there would also be a structured rep. list to follow. As I said, we spent much of the spring attending auditions and heard more than a few glitches among the mostly All-State music major candidates. I'm reasonably sure at least some of them were admitted on scholarship. Nerves affect most amateurs and I think the committees recognize this.

By Almostdone (Almostdone) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:57 am: Edit

thanks momof2 and stillwaters-

i think i will just go ahead an send the CD...but maybe i'll tape a solo passage(of the HAydn) and then the cadenza and then the whole thing, so they can pick and choose what they would like to listen to. good idea?

By Mitacceptee (Mitacceptee) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Actually Almostdone, I'd recommend you just send either your recording with the orchestra or your solo passage, not both (the reason being that the adcom/music director may not want to hear the same piece twice by the same person). Try to put more of a variety on your tape too, including a slow piece as well to show your technique.

By Hautbois (Hautbois) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 01:30 pm: Edit

I teach, and I listen to CDs when they are provided, so I might be a wee bit of help here.

First of all, any professional musician and, I hope, any good instructor, knows that a live performance isn't usually flawless. We are listening for musicality. We listen for intonation, line, understanding of the work ... accuracy matters, of course, but we don't assume it has to be perfect. I would much rather hear a player who has that "special something" that turns math into music, even with a mistake or two, than hear that careful "perfect" but unmusical player. So if you have a mistake or two in a live performance, don't rule it out.

Second, I might suggest including an unaccompanied work if you feel the live performance is lacking. (How is the orchestra in the performance? How is the recording quality?) You might begin with that work, just to showcase your sound.

If you include the entire concerto it's really not a problem ... we all know how to work a CD player; we'll skip over the orchestral parts if we choose to. Unless you have so much music it won't fit on to a CD I'd suggest including it all. It doesn't hurt anything. If you want to include a "road map" for the listener just note your entrances.

I'm not sure how all schools work, but in my case they white out the name of the student so I haven't a clue who I'm hearing. You might check out each school; some might request that you actually say your name on the recording (for some reason I'm thinking I read that at one school's site). You may have to have two versions of the CD because of this, but I can't say for sure.

One "don't do" (imo of course): please don't send in a recording of a work unaccompanied if it was written with accompaniment! I had one student do that. It made it quite clear that the student didn't understand the work at all and it sounded as if he/she didn't care enough to bother with the "real" piece (which was for the instrument and piano). Getting a pianist is worth the extra effort and, possibly, expense.

I hope this is helpful to you. Just some ideas.

By Calibaby_2003 (Calibaby_2003) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 07:49 pm: Edit

hey. just my two cents, but my friend sent in a tape to yale, and he played at carnegie hall. no offense to u, but please consider everything thoughtfully. if u're applying somewhere like ucla or usc, a tape will really help u, but at top-notch places like harvard, the adcoms are not going to be too impressed.

By Almostdone (Almostdone) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 07:55 pm: Edit

ooh. yikes...see thats what i was worried about..i knew itd prolly help with places like colgate (one of my safety/targets), but places like HYP...yale is exactly where i was gonna send it first, too (EA). i guess id better not. i played in a local hall. . and i bet ur friend isn't the only one! i heard the non-music major people in the harvard and yale orchestras are almost or as good as the music majors there. sigh~

oh and thank you so much hautbois, for your "insider" info and also thanx mitacceptee for your suggestion.

By Mg2004 (Mg2004) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:53 pm: Edit

If you're outstanding, send in a tape. no question.

If you're very good, send in a tape. it rounds out your application and shows you've achieved a certain level.

if you're average-above average, it really doesn't make a difference whether you send it in or not. It wont hurt you, but won't help you either.

if you do send it in, cut out the orchestra stuff. why dont you play it with a piano accompianment and instead of the 3-4 minute intro have your pianist give you a shorter intro, like you would do for a recital?

The director is going most likely going to listen to about 30 seconds of your recording...they judge you that quickly and you want to make the best, immediate impression that you can.

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 09:44 am: Edit

Recently D was requested to send a videotape to a music dept for evaluation. Several live performances, not professionally done--more like a family video (BAD photography). Couldve sent a professionally done tape in the fall, but they said send now. waiting to hear reaction. It's a school that she's very interested in--hope we didn't make a mistake. I don't know if they follow up requesting a live audition. I'll post as we find out more.

By Almondjoy (Almondjoy) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 02:30 am: Edit

if i can draw really well what would be a good way to show it in the extra section of app? should i draw some sort of elaborate non-controversial drawing?

By Sac (Sac) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:24 pm: Edit

If drawing is a serious interest of yours, I wouldn't add a drawing to the application, I'd make some slides and submit a portfolio which can be shared with the art department.

By Almostdone (Almostdone) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

if u send in a supplementary tape, do they expect it to be a concerto? is it better to have a not quite perfect live performance of a hard piece like haydn D or a somewhat simpler piece like Kol nidrei played to perfection (or as near as i can get it)?
also, do they take into account WHEN u recorded it? like, beginning of Jr yr vs. beginning of sr yr? do they usually want two pieces?

By Momof2 (Momof2) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Well, our only experience is with recordings aimed at auditions for music school admission and/or scholarships. The requirements were pretty much set out by the schools, although we prepared one master for all of them. Included were concerto mvts., etudes, chromatic, and orchestral excerpts. We also included a live performance with the HS wind ensemble upon the recording tech's recommendation (his son is finishing a master's in performance at NWestern, so we took his advice.)

If you are not planning a music major, there shouldn't be any requirements. A contrasting piece would be nice, but probably not mandatory to catch the attention of the adcom and be sent to the music dept. As I said earlier, it seems you are hoping to fill a needed position in an ensemble and thereby get a boost in the admissions process. Is this correct?

I myself would be much more impressed by the live performance, because it sets you apart. There are probably hundreds of students who play any given piece well every year, but few of them are given the opportunity to perform with orchestral accompaniment. Your director showed both respect and trust in you by programming the piece. There is much more pressure with a live performance and you don't get the chance to re-record until you reach perfection. Projection over an orchestra is much trickier than with a piano. I wouldn't think it necessary to date the performance unless asked. I WOULD include a contact number for your director and private instructor. Hope some of this helps.

By Davidn08 (Davidn08) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 04:03 pm: Edit

hey i've been playing piano for many years and guitar for 1&1/2. i wanted to record a tape/CD with 4 pieces: one classical piano, one modern or jazz piano, one classical guitar, and one electric rock guitar. it totals about 12 minutes i think. is that too much?

ps. the pieces i'm considering are:
-chopin - Etudes Opera 25 No. 1 (piano)
-joe satriani - always with me always with you (electric guitar)
-mason williams - classical gas (eric clapton version) (classical guitar)
and one other piano.

if any of you know any of those pieces, please comment as to whether the level is too low.

ps. i know 1&1/2 year of guitar makes it sound like i suck, but i really can play some pretty impressive pieces.

please comment.

By Sac (Sac) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 04:29 pm: Edit

You need to look at the fine arts submission requriments for each school to which you're applying. Some are basically anything goes. Some play whatever you send in the admissions office, others automatically forward it to the music department for evaluation. Many give quite explicit instructions on length, on whether you need seperate recordings for each instrument, etc., even if you're not planning to be a music major.