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Hello I'm a junior and my CG asked us to write a list of schools that I'll be applying next fall, as in categories of reach, match and safety schools. I have a good sense of my match schools and definitely have my dream schools, but really don't know what kind of schools would be my safeties. Help!!

My Stats & interests:
http://pr.damnsw.net/display.php?user=aawesome

thank you!

By Gianscolere (Gianscolere) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 12:45 pm: Edit

Safety schools are those who accept more than 50% of applicants and with average scores that are within or below your range of test scores. Would you like to venture out of China for your safeties too? Maybe some US state schools, although some California state schools are still considered highly selective. I'm just a freshman in high school, so I'm not very knowledgeable about what state schools can actually considered safeties. Hope I helped somehow. Good luck with admissions!! Williams is also one of my top choices, by the way!

By Ashleycrombie (Ashleycrombie) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 01:26 pm: Edit

hey aawesome which school are you from?
guangzhou american or ISBeijing?

By Pisces (Pisces) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 01:43 pm: Edit

I'm kinda confused. Are you just living in China as a Korean citizen or an American citizen? If you're an american citizen then any lower first tier lacs or second tier could be safeties or at least really good shots. Look into Trinity, Connecticutt, Holy Cross- well Holy Cross might just be a good match, they've gotten really competitive. And, on another note, you need SAT II writing for the schools you listed. I know middlebury needs it. they are really into writing- i had to submit a graded analytical english paper as part of the application. Anyways, if youre not an american citizen then i really have no idea because i'm not sure how that works. good luck!

By Jymfour (Jymfour) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Considering your interests, you might consider adding Bowdoin College to your ranked list, while Middlebury, and Brandeis may prove to be disappointing. As for safeties, the real gems are the large public institutions that have discrete Honors Programs within them. Often these function as separate elite colleges, yet they are able to draw from the university's superior resources. Be careful because the majority of Honors Programs are essentially bogus lures to attract more competitive students. The good ones offer a comprehensive selection of small classes for at least the first two years. Courses are generally are taught by the elite of the professorial staff, honors college housing is provided, and there are often substantial perks(guaranteed admission to grad and professional schools, tutorials, separate program advising, etc). There are many that I looked at that were not what they proported to be. Aside from taking one special honors class each semester there seemed to be no advantage over the "huge class, long line"syndrome that is the bane of state universities. On the other hand, U. Pitt, UNC-Chapel Hill, Penn State, and U Md. all were worth serious consideration. Pitt in particular seems to provide a 2 year program that will knock your socks off, they are reasonably priced, very generous with merit money, and have assigned the best of their staff to the honors program...and pittsburgh rocks!

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 02:01 pm: Edit

I was looking at some stats for the new Williams class yesterday, which may be of interest. First, their acceptance rate dropped from 23% to 20%.

They accepted 1062 from 5341 applicants. 532 of the 1062 have enrolled, a "yield" of 49.9%.

They give an ethnic breakdown of the applicants and the enrolled students. Since they yield numbers are not broken down, this is not an absolute measure of acceptance rates, but it's the closest thing I've been able to unearth for a top college.

16% of the applicants (878) were "Americans of color". 29% of the enrolled class is Americans of Color. This means that applicants "of color" had a 35% chance of going to Williams (assuming the yield rates are consistent across the board).

16% of the applicants (875) were "international" students. 6% of the enrolled class is international. This means that international applicants in this group had a 7% chance of going to Williams.

67% of the applicants (3588) were American caucasion or unspecified. 65% of the enrolled class is caucasion/unspecified. This means that this group had a 19% chance of going to Williams.

Of the 1032 accepted students, 175 were athletes and another 175 were musicians/dancers/actors.

Each group can draw their own conclusions about the impact of "diversity" initiatives at these types of colleges. Clearly Americans of color have a much higher acceptance rate than American caucasion/unspecifieds. I suspect that the actual acceptance rate is probably closer to double because the Americans of color accepted to Williams would be so coveted that they also would be accepted to Harvard and everywhere else, lowering their yield at Williams.

I thought the international numbers were interesting. Clearly, the huge number of international applicants is a significant factor in the rising number of applications.

Historically, one of the reasons that these colleges like international students is that pay their own tuition -- somebody has to. Any student not applying for finanicial aid has a edge in the application process, if only a subtle edge when deciding between two identical applications. I would think that it's almost essential for international applicants, unless they literally walk on water.

I give you these numbers because I think it's useful for any student to understand where they stand in what is a de facto quota-based admissions process. I think you can see that the numbers are not on your side.

Your numbers are good, especially considering that English is not your native language. But, I have to be honest. My daughter's stats are better and I would be VERY concerned if she put together your list of schools.

Grinell, McAllister, and Brandeis have higher acceptance rates. But, every single college on your list has 75% percentile SATs at or near 1450. Realistically, if you are not an American of color or a legacy and you want a school where you have a high likelihood of being accepted, I would think that you want stats above the 75% percentile so that you stand out as a clear "admit", depending on other hooks.

For example, as a New Englander, my daughter would feel more confident about her chances with 75% percentile scores at a Southern school than she would with 75% percentile scores at a New England school, because of geographic distribution issues.

If anything, I think a Korean student probably needs to cast a wider net, simply because the numbers make it harder to accurately predict. If you are the #1 candidate from Korea, then I'd say your chances are excellent. But, you have to keep in mind that each of these colleges is only going to have a very small number of Korean quota "slots".

I would sign up for the US News College Raking website ($10) and study the bottom half of the Top 50 liberal arts colleges. Places like Skidmore or the University of the South or Occidental College might give you some options that aren't quite as fiercely competitive.

Don't be discouraged. You could get accepted at all of your top choices. Nobody knows. But, in general, I would rather see a list of eight schools look at a wider range in terms of admissions odds. I also think that you are going to have to rely on Asian-specific guidance counselors because your particular situation is so far from the normal statistical assumptions. Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would probably contact the admissions office at a couple of schools and strike up a conversation to see if you are even in the right ballpark. i would think a good admissions officer would give you some guidance as to whether their school has admitted students with your qualifications or whether it would be very tall odds. They aren't going to say don't apply, but they might well give you some sense.

By Jymfour (Jymfour) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 02:38 pm: Edit

unless you're an athlete your numbers will not get you into Williams. They love athletes, and relish their position as the sports powerhouse of the Little Three(Amherst, Wesleyan, and Williams). This is not surprising as Williamstown is as isolated as you can get in the northeast without being on an island. There are really very few slots at Williams that are not taken by athletes or legacies. Yet the education at Williams is world class...its science and math are nearly as good as Swarthmore"s. Good luck

By Aawesome (Aawesome) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 04:49 am: Edit

Thank you for all your posts. AS I have stated as the title, I'm asking for my safeties, I do not need anyone to tell me that I can't get into Williams since I clearly know that it is my ultimate reach school.

I know my SAT score isn't that high, but I have no doubt that I can raise it to at least 1450, wishing to break 1500 hopefully.

I've visited most of the schools that are on my list including Williams and Middlebury (which are my top two choices) and none of the schools on my list, I consider my safety. That's why I'm asking for some help finding me some safaties.

Just to clarify my position

Thanks again!

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 02:19 pm: Edit

I'm not sure that the term "safety" can really apply in your case. For an American student, it is possible to come up with at least a rough assessment of your chances at various schools because that student is applying for 95% of the available slots.

Your situation is so unique (because the international slots only account for a few percent of the incoming class), that none of us can really assess your chances one way or another. For example, we could rattle off schools that would be clear "safeties" for an American student, but we don't know to what extent those schools are interested in international applicants or what mechanisms are in place for filling those slots. Conversely, it could well be that every college in America is targeting a Korean student studying in China -- we simply don't know.

If you have an experienced Asian guidance counselor, I would turn to that person for advice. Otherwise, I would try to try to find someone in an admissions department who will step out of their role as a salesman for a minute and give you some honest guidance.

By Evergreen (Evergreen) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 01:09 am: Edit

Remember though, that when you decide on safeties, be sure that you would be OK going there. I applied to all kinds of schools that I was sure I'd get into, but I didn't, and now I'm stuck with my safety. I'll be fine there of course, but just be sure you will be too, you never know what the college admin. people will do!

By Cornellian07 (Cornellian07) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:13 am: Edit

There are two good liberal arts colleges near me, Union and Skidmore. They would probably be safeties for you. Also, try Hamilton College and Connecticut College. This was just off the top of my head.

By Chasgoose (Chasgoose) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 03:28 am: Edit

Grinnell should probably be a good safety. If you are interested in Williams then you should definitely look at Kenyon College in Ohio. I have heard nothing but raves from college counselors, alumni, and current students about that school and it has an acceptance rate somewhere between 60-80%. It still, however, has a great reputation in the academic world, for example, my best friend's sister just graduated from there and received a Fulbright Scholarship. Its one major problem is that it is one of those isolated schools where the social life revolves around hardcore drinking, (the students outnumber the permanent residents of the town where it is located 3:1 and the student body is under 2000) but if you are looking at Williams and Middlebury than that should not be a problem for you as they are equally isolated and alcohol heavy