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Part 28

Before posting, please take a look at the FAQ, as it gives a brief summary of some of the topics that come up a lot on this thread, the big list of schools, and help for searching for a particular topic within the thread.

FAQ

See also Theatre/Drama Colleges for lots of information on straight theatre programs.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:35 pm: Edit

SORRY FOR DOUBLE POSTING, BUT I POSTED IT AFTER THESBO'S LINK WAS PUT IN.

I have a question that doesn't really belong here. I'm sorry! But I can't figure out where to ask it. Can someone answer it or give me a clue where to ask it?

My D's high school currently does not accept online/correspondence coursework from outside the state of CA (I guess they want all the $ to stay in the state), but they are about the only high school to feel this way. If my D was to take an IU or BYU course in something extra that she doesn't need to graduate, like psychology, for example, would that be a good thing on her college resume (initiative, hardworking, outside interests), a bad thing (doesn't play by the rules, not a team player, college might consider her a "transfer" student, not a first-time freshman), or neutral (who cares?)???

I think she's going to be stuck taking Health through the University of California online course which meets 5xweek (not weekends) because of her school's idiotic rules. She's not even sure she wants to take any more outside courses after that (she'll be into senior year at that point), but if she does still want to, would it be wise when it's not authorized by her high school?

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Here are a couple of quotes from my training journal that seem like they might be somewhat pertinent to one of the discussions on the last thread. I wish I could remember the name of the industry rep who said them ...

“Looks might open some doors, but once inside you’d better be able to consistently perform or you’ll soon find your toned little butt right back out on the street with a footprint on it.”

“The trash bins of Broadway are filled to the brim with the careers of beautiful fools who believed some schmuck in a $600 suit when he blew smoke up their ***.”

And one from a Master ...

“Unfortunately, our art is frequently exploited for personal ends. You do it to show your beauty. Others do it to gain popularity or external success or to make a career. In our profession these are common phenomena and I hasten to restrain you from it. ‘Now remember firmly what I am going to tell you: the theatre on account of its publicity and spectacular side, attracts many people who merely want to capitalize their beauty or make careers. They take advantage of the ignorance of the public, its perverted taste, favouritism, intrigues, false success, and many other means which have no relation to creative art. These exploiters are the deadliest enemies of art. We have to use the sternest measures with them, and if they cannot be reformed they must be removed from the boards. Therefore … you must make up your mind, once and for all, did you come here to serve art, and to make sacrifices for its sake, or to exploit your own personal ends?’” Constantin Stanislavski

CHOP CHOP!

By Marissal (Marissal) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:20 pm: Edit

Mtmommy - there's a correspondence school in CA called Laurel Springs School. It is a private school, though. I'm finishing my senior year through it since I had to move. I think it's www.laurelsprings.com. I am taking a psych course, not sure if it's the academic level your daughter wants (I just came from a really challenging IB school so this is kind of relaxed compared to it), but check it out if that works for you.

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 08:35 pm: Edit

Mtmommy:

I can only speak for myself, but I would never assume that a student who took a correspondence or on-line course was "not a team player". (I can't imagine any of my colleagues around the country thinking that either.) Nor would it make her a transfer student. Many of our freshmen bring AP or college credit with them. It gives them a modicum of freedom to take electives in a curriculum which otherwise has very little of it.

What I would make sure of is that whatever classes she takes on-line carry college rather than high school credit. (Unless she's taking the course in order to graduate--a different issue.) You can check by calling the registrar's office at any college, one that's local or one your D is considering attending. It's also likely that IU and BYU have information about articulation agreements.

However, I wouldn't recommend thinking about online courses as a resume-builder. It will go almost unnoticed by auditioners. There are too many other critical things for us to try to absorb and evaluate in the few minutes any of us have to look at a resume.

Hope this helps.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Mnmom,

I'm glad to hear that your son is a happy bearcat. Be sure to let me know when the freshmen showcase is this year. I'd love to come see him. Who is your son's voice teacher this quarter? Is he studying with a faculty member or with a grad student?

To All,

I thought it might be instructive to find out how many schools assign freshmen to grad students for their voice lessons or have freshmen take a group voice class. My D is having a little trouble with her voice teacher. All of the freshmen have been assigned to the new MT graduate assistant. My D's 1st lesson was a wash. The teacher expected her to know nothing about singing and seemed dismayed to find out that she had already had 4 years of lessons under her belt. The teacher had planned to spend the 1st few lessons explaining the basics, i.e., posture and breathing. She quickly discovered that D didn't need any help in that area. They spent the rest of the lesson talking. The teacher admitted to D that she didn't really know what to do with her. I counselled D that this was a good thing. It meant that her new teacher was not going to try to bluff and that things would get better. Apparently they haven't. Two other freshmen have complained to the dept. chair already. D has said that if her next lesson wasn't any better she'd complain too. D is a little disappointed that things haven't gone better. She was spoiled last year. She was studying with a CCM faculty member who helped her improve dramatically. My impression has been that the assigning of freshmen to grad students is pretty common. I've heard through the grapevine that this is the case at CCM. I think my D would have faced a very odd situation had she gone to CCM; after studying with one of their own faculty members as a private student she would have to study with a grad student for a year before she would be allowed to return to her teacher's studio. I don't know if they would have made an exception. I wonder why so many schools assign the freshmen to grad students. Is the assumption that the kids come to college with no vocal training? Is it simply a cost cutting measure? Is it to give the grad students something to do? Twenty years ago when MT programs were very few and far between, I imagine that there were many kids who entered those programs who had no prior vocal training. I can't imagine that is the case today. I would think that virtually all of the students accepted by the top programs have had some private voice lessons. Let me know what you think.

By Stagemomdj (Stagemomdj) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Dancersmom,

I can only speak for OCU....All MT majors, freshman included, study with voice faculty...the same faculty that teach vocal performance/opera majors. They have private lessons and a masterclass within their studio every week.

The difference may be in the program...OCU's MT degree is a Bachelor of Music (concentration on the vocal end of the triple talent needed). Other programs that are focused on dance or acting may not be taking the vocal end so seriously. Just a guess......

By Beez (Beez) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:05 pm: Edit

MnMom,

I'm so happy to hear your son is enjoying his freshman year at CCM. As you may remember, my daughter is now a sophomore at CCM and continues to love it!! I knew you'd be thrilled with your decision!

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:48 pm: Edit

Thanks for adding another question to our list: "how often is private voice scheduled for new students, and who teaches it?". I would never have imagined that grad students would teach the new students.

handy.

By Newmtmom (Newmtmom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Lfill and others--(forgive me, I just read this and have to put my two cents in) I read this quote of John Adams that I think sums up a part of my thinking: "I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study Mathematics and Philosophy. My sons ought to study Mathematics and Philosophy, Geography, natural History, Naval Architecture, navigation, Commerce and Agriculture, in order to give their Children a right to study Painting, Poetry, Musick, Architecture, Statuary, Tapestry and Porcelaine." Our children will find their own way and will figure out what compromises they need to make in their lives. But how lucky we are that that they can even think of pursuing the arts. And success--well that has many meetings. As someone who has worked as a visual artist I can tell you, if you are in the arts, you learn to define success very differently from the majority of working Americans. I have no idea whether my D has what it takes. She clearly has potential and talent--so do hundreds of others. Time will tell. And if she decides ten or fifteen years from now that it isn't for her, I don't think she or her father and I will think it a waste. She will have studied something that requires her to learn the art of self-criticism, to study and understand humanity, to learn how to cooperate,to understand the interconnectedness(?) of people. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea.

On a more practical level, which programs that aren't the "ivies" do people recommend? I get a little confused because even those that aren't the absolute top rated seem to be very small and exclusive.

Anyone know anything about American? Drake? Minnesota (Duluth)?

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:18 am: Edit

Doctorjohn and Marissal, thank you so much for responding to my question about extra courses. I'm glad to know that the college courses wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm also glad to know that she should only do it if it doesn't add negative stress (as opposed to positive stress)since it wouldn't be a "resume builder." She wanted to take AP music theory next year and would have no choice but to take her 3rd year of science elsewhere in order to keep her choir, drama, and dance classes, but now it looks like AP music theory is on its way out the door at D's high school. So now she can take science at her school and if she wants to add psychology, she can do it online--or else she can wait until she's actually in college.

By Artsymom (Artsymom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:32 am: Edit

Newmtmom, I loved your post. You sound like a great parent, with a very sensitive and expansive idea of what success might mean for your D. I also appreciated your saying that you have no idea whether your D has what it takes to make it MT. It's all too easy for us, in our love and pride, to get our heads in the same clouds our kids' heads are sometimes in. Thanks.

Re. American (or AU, as it's known in these parts) -- I live in the DC suburbs, and I'd encourage you to look into it. In fact, someone asked about it back in Part 25, so I'll basically copy what I wrote back then: AU may not have as many MT productions as other programs, but it has quite a few other acting and music opportunities, not to mention a spanking-new new theatre facility. And depending on what your D's non-MT interests are -- e.g., if they include international relations -- AU could be an excellent choice. It has a diverse student body, and DC is a really good place to be a college student. Re. theatre in particular -- apart from what would be happening right at AU, the DC metro area (Washington and its Maryland and Virginia suburbs) has a very vibrant professional and community theatre scene. AU is located within DC proper, but it's not an urban school; its campus is in a predominantly residential area (much of it VERY upscale) a mile or so from Maryland. Public transportation is OK from there. In fact, I'd love for my D to consider AU, but she really wants an away-from-home college experience....and seeing as AU is about halfway between our house and my H's office, it doesn't exactly fill that bill. While I don't have a lot of "inside" knowledge about AU, I'd be happy to answer any other questions you might have about the DC area.

By Artsymom (Artsymom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:42 am: Edit

An audition song question: My D's school is doing "Songs for a New World" (cast with 6F and 6M rather than the two and two it's written for). Among other things, my D is singing "Flagmaker's Song." Those of you who are familiar with it know that it's a wonderful, moving, challenging song. The last 16 or 32 bars would be a terrific showcase for her voice, and she'll be "peaking" with it at a great time for college auditions, but we're not sure if it really works as an audition piece. Any opinions?

By Mezzomom (Mezzomom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

Because you all were so kind and supportive after my mini-rant a few threads ago, I wanted to share my daughter's serendipity.

For her 16th birthday, I got my daughter season tickets to the Michigan Opera Theatre. This got her to perusing their website, and she noticed that one could request to be on the mailing list for supernumerary positions (silent, walk-on roles). She added her name and recently got a letter detailing the openings for the upcoming productions of "Rigoletto" and "Faust." After checking her schedule, she realized that she could make all of the Rigoletto rehearsals and begged me to let her apply. I agreed, and after the initial screening process, she was invited to audition.

I have to admit that, once again, I was very nervous for my daughter. Super roles are almost exclusively based on having the "right look" as defined by the director...there's no talent audition at all. Given some of her recent experiences, I wasn't sure this was a good idea. When I kept asking her if she was absolutely sure, I got The Look (the one where I feel obligated to look in a mirror to ensure that I really DON'T have two heads); her ultimate response was, "Do you really think I'd pass on the chance to be at rehearsals and backstage for a professional opera?"

Tonight was audition night. I spent the entire day counting the minutes, particularly since my daughter spent the day at Michigan State for a choral workshop. The timing of getting back to her school and then on to Detroit was going to be extremely tight, but by some miracle (and with maybe just a FEW miles over the speed limit), we made it with time to spare. She settled in with the other super-wannabes at one end of the rehearsal room, while I tried to make myself invisible at the other end. After some preliminary words, the director then started walking amidst the seated auditioners, clearly comparing them to some vision known only to him. At one point, he stopped near my daughter and said in his charming Italian accent, "You are a young one, aren't you?" I cringed until I heard the reply, "I'm 15." Whew! He wasn't talking to my daughter...and then it was over, and he announced who would be the supers. My daughter was fortunate enough to be included.

My daughter is overjoyed at this opportunity, and it laid to rest some demons she'd been carrying within.

It did occur to me tonight that between Susan in Vermont and me in Michigan, our combined gasoline consumption is probably keeping a small oil-producing nation very happy. But what a small price to pay when you see the face of your child lighting up with joy and anticipation.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 01:03 am: Edit

MTMommy, please note that I responded to your post about taking online courses or college courses on the last thread right before it switched into a new thread here. If you can go back there to read it, I will not repost it.

I agree with Doctorjohn to not do it as a resume builder but if she does something like this for other reasons (ie., craving further challenge beyond the curriculum, schedule conflicts, subjects not available locally, etc.), then she should do it for that sake. I happen to think colleges do look favorably upon that sort of academic undertaking. While Doctor John said they might not notice it upon quick review of your materials at auditions.....some schools do not weigh academics that heavily for admission and rely much more on just the audition. However, be aware that at SOME schools, such as NYU and UMich, the academic part of the admission process weighs quite substantially and in that part of the review at the admissions office, a strong academic record full of challenges and achievement does bode well for that aspect of the admissions process. At NYU, for instance, academics count for 50% of admissions and auditions for the other 50%. And NYU is a challenging college to get into academically speaking without the audition component. At UMich, your application is reviewed academically first and if you are a strong candidate for admissions in that sphere, you are invited to audition for musical theater, so the academic portion there matters quite a bit and is even used to choose candidates for audition.

Again, don't pick courses around what you think they want. Have your daughter pursue what works for her, what she enjoys, plus attempt to challenge herself with demanding courses. That ALWAYS will be looked upon in a positive light.

Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 01:08 am: Edit

Mezzomom, thrilled for your daughter. Those moments are to die for when they happen ;-).

I will think of you as I drive every night this week and then some. I also let my daughter do an adult show she was lucky to get cast in this fall, and they also only took three teens in the cast and it is 50 miles away, and not the only thing she is doing right now.

Perhaps my savings in gasoline next year can pay for a few days worth of the college tuition bill, lol.

Susan

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:04 am: Edit

Here's an audition technical question for the experienced!

Some websites state that in the audition "you should come prepared to sing a whole song but we may ask you to sing only 16 or 32 bars". How does that work, exactly? Does the applicant find out before or during the song that she needs to cut the song?

Does she open her mouth to sing a whole song and then someone says "sorry, we need only 16 bars today" at which time the applicant whips out (for the accompanist) the 16 bar version (mentally shifting gears) and then sings that? Or does she start singing a whole song and then get cut off after 16 (32) bars?

I know that part of the audition is seeing how kids handle last minute changes under pressure etc (and that seems like a valid test) but I'm wondering exactly how it works.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:07 am: Edit

Another technical question: during auditions, is there always a place for the student to warm up the voice for 15-20 min before the singing portion?

Or is it the case sometimes that you can only warm up at the hotel ahead of time (in which case the singing portion of the audition could be 2+ hours later)?

Can anyone give examples of schools that provide warmup space/time and ones that do not?

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:47 am: Edit

Mezzomom,

Congratulations to your D on being chosen as a super in "Rigoletto". I hope it will be a wonderful experience for her. My D was chosen to be a super in a production of "Don Giovanni" when she was 14. She was the only child in the show. I had some worry before rehearsals started that she would not find it to be a positive experience. She had done several professional theatrical productions already and had always been treated as an equal by the adult cast members. She had been featured as a dancer in every production she had done up to that time. The choreographers in most of the shows she had done had her helping the adult cast members learn the dances. This would not be the case with the opera. I feared that she would be ignored by the adults and possibly be looked down upon. I shouldn't have worried. My D played an actual character, Dona Elvira's servant girl, in the production. Don Giovanni's most beautiful aria, "Deh vieni alla finestra", is sung to the servant girl while the 2 of them are alone on stage. D had quite a bit of stage time so she had to be at many rehearsals. The guest artists and the director were wonderful. They took my D under their wings. They treated her as an important member of the cast. Everyone seemed to take an interest in her. During a break one afternoon the guest artists had her demonstrating tap dancing. There were many supers in the production, but my D was the only one who sat with the guest artists during rehearsals. The other supers and the chorus didn't sit on the same side of the rehearsal hall as the guest artists and my D. A few of the female chorus members who shared a dressing room with my D confessed to being jealous. The singer who played Don G was a very handsome young Swedish baritone. He was touted as the greatest Don G of his generation and had performed the role all over Europe. His performance with Cincinnati Opera was his American stage debut. He has since made his debut at the Met in "The Marriage of Figaro". He appointed himself my D's mentor. He spent his free time during rehearsals talking with and entertaining her. Quite a few of the women said they wished they were 14 so they could take her place! They were more than a little surprised when he knocked on the dressing room door in the middle of the final performance to speak to my D. All in all, the experience was a highlight in my D's young life. The Italian bass who played Leporello appointed her his official groupie. He played the devil in the company's production of "Faust" a month after "Don G" closed. He was genuinely pleased to have me and my D in the audience cheering for him. We were the only people in the audience that he knew. The singer who played Don Ottavio returned to town every summer for the next 4 years. We always made a point of going back stage to see him. He always inquired about what was happening in my D's life and seemed genuinely pleased last year to hear that she was ready to begin her college auditions. The woman who played Dona Elvira bought my D a small gift and kept up an e-mail relationship with D for over a year. She gave us some very helpful advice regarding private voice lessons. For several years after performing in the opera my D said that it was the most fun she had ever had doing a show. She had done other shows where she had much larger roles, but she had not had as much fun. Performing with the opera company was truly a once in a lifetime experience. I hope your D has a fabulous experience!

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:19 pm: Edit

Jrmom,

Just remember the old boy scout motto, "Be prepared!" I would suggest that for each song your D plans to sing that she should have a copy of the entire song and cuts of 16 and 32 bars in her audition binder. If the 16 or 32 bar cuts are not consecutive measures I would photocopy the piece then cut and paste so that the pianist does not have to have search. Occasionally auditors may ask a student to stop in the middle of a song because they feel they have heard enough to make an evaluation. Usually, if they have decided that because of time considerations they only want to hear 16 bars, they will inform everyone before the auditions begin. I don't recall my D getting any surprises during any of her auditions. The schools she auditioned for were very clear about how much music they wanted to hear.

As far as warmups go, most of the schools my D auditioned for pointed the kids in the direction of the practice rooms. My D always knew in advance of audition day when she was scheduled to sing. She made sure that she found a practice room around 45 minutes to an hour before her vocal auditions to do a warmup. At Michigan we were unable to find an open practice room with a piano, so my D did her warmup on her own. At Point Park parents were not allowed on the floors where warmups and auditions were taking place, so D warmed up on her own. At Carnegie-Mellon I don't recall there being much official warmup time. Students were divided into 3 groups - singing, acting, and dancing. D did a warmup on her own before singing. I don't know if she found a practice room or if she simply found an empty classroom. I believe that I went with D to the practice rooms at all of the other schools and went through her music with her. Though I'm sure she can find me a pain at times, I know I come in handy when she wants an accompanist! Your D should definitely find someplace at the school to do a warmup before singing. I would not recommend warming up at the hotel hours before singing. One can always find some available space. There might be an occasion when your D has very little time between her dance audition and her vocal audition. In that case I'd suggest a thorough vocal warmup before the dance audition and a brief one just before going in to sing. My D had enough time to adequately warmup before all of her vocal auditions. It seems like I recall Mtheatremom mentioning that her D had the 1st vocal audition after the dance audition at Michigan. You might ask her how much time her D had between the 2 segments.

By 5pants (5pants) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 02:28 pm: Edit

There is a great article about career selections...the link is located on MSN's home page. The article discusses what employers look for in a future employee....many of the attributes fit our beloved theatre Ss & Ds. Check it out!

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/335.htm?siteid=cbmsnhp4319&sc_extcmp=JS_cg03_aug04_home1&GT1=5360&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=46131dafba804c8b98652176e96ef6c7-150301517-xj-2

So sorry for the lengthy URL....

SUE

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Sue - interesting link - and you can look at it in EITHER direction --- major in MT, and later find a career in another field, OR major in something else, continue your studies, and pursue your MT dream that way!

By Ilmomsk (Ilmomsk) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Regarding grad students teaching the voice lessons in a college MT program, this really bothers me. Even at Cherubs this summer, my daughter studied with a vocal coach/Senior Lecutrer on their faculty. I thought someone posted here that grad students do the private voice lessons for MT at Michigan. Can someone confirm? When I e-mailed the head of the program at Illinois State, she was dumb-founded that any school would do that, and ISU only offers the BA! And is not in the upper echelons. DoctorJohn-comments?

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 07:19 pm: Edit

I'm kind of curious who these grad students would be because most of these colleges do NOT have MFA programs in MT.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Alwaysamom

The grad students teaching freshmen voice lessons are students working toward a MM or DMA in voice. They are most definitely not students working toward a MFA in MT. I have been told that freshmen at Michigan and CCM study with TA's. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I know for certain that my D is studying with a TA. I'm pretty sure that these are not the only schools that have freshmen working with grad students. I'm not surprised that a school that has no graduate program in music would not have TA's giving voice lessons.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 08:36 pm: Edit

At Penn State all MT students study only with MT voice faculty. Freshmen have a group voice class as well as an individual weekly "check-up" with a voice teacher. Private lessons begin in the sophmore year.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Why would freshmen not have a private voice lesson, when some of them have been studying voice privately for several years before entering the program? Is there some reason they start them with a group class?

Thanks Dancersmom for your complete answer to my earlier question - very helpful.

By Barsmom (Barsmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:13 pm: Edit

Hello to everyone. I feel like I know you all personally after reading this site for the past few weeks. I need advice from whoever wants to offer any. My D and I are in panic mode, after thinking we had it all figured out.

She has been singing since she was 7. It is her passion. She enjoys MT but is weak in dance. Recognizing her abilities and limitations she decided to try and find a program for non-classical voice only. She thought she found one at Shenandoah, called commercial music, but it's for classical only. The only other school we found for someone primarily interested in singing non-classical contemporary music is at Belmont University in TN. Now she is thinking of trying for MT as plan B, and/or music education with an emphasis in voice as plan C. I feel like we are way behind the rest of you , hence the PANIC!

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Some time ago I wrote about the competitive economic environment in colleges and universities. Every department has to make a case for additional resources. Large universities with highly evolved Schools of Music devoted to training classical musicians are not likely to ask tenured voice faculty to teach MTs. Nor are they likely to ask the university for a full-time faculty line devoted to that activity; it's peripheral to their central mission. So the MTs, like other "non-majors", may be handed to teaching assistants, at least in the beginning of their training.

Alternatively, the School of Drama may have fought successfully for a voice teacher who will devote his or her time to the MTs. But it's unlikely that the school will have secured more than one such position, and no full-time faculty member can teach more than 20 hour-long lessons per week, teach classes, go to meetings, and do creative or scholarly work. So the private lessons may be reserved to the upper division students, and the teacher will meet with the freshmen in a mini-master class situation.

In colleges with no graduate programs, there may be a greater chance that MTs will have access to private voice study from the beginning, depending on the size of the Music Department, and the relationship between Music and Theatre. In our case, since the MT degree is interdisciplinary and the two departments share responsibility for the curriculum, MT majors take one hour of private voice each week with Music faculty from the beginning of their training. I'm sure that's true in other schools as well.

Obviously I believe in the way we do it. But we can because of how the program has evolved, our good relationship with our Music colleagues, and because of the small number of MT students we take each year. It is one of the advantages of not being dependent on tax revenues and state legislatures.

If we all had our druthers, believe me, all MTs across the country would have one hour private lessons every week with voice teachers who are not only trained in vocal pedagogy but who have successful careers on Broadway. There are precious few of those creatures around. So compromises happen: one hour private voice with TAs, or class voice with a Broadway musical director and coach, or whatever. No program is perfect, although I do believe that we're all striving to be as good as we can be for our students.

You have to decide what is most important to you, and ask questions. This one about voice lessons is a very good one.

Hope this helps.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:47 pm: Edit

Welcome, Barsmom. When I first read that your D is thinking of MT as plan B, I sort of choked. When I think of all the work that my D puts into her acting, her singing, her dancing, and her choreography, to think of a singer taking lightly the idea of, oh yeah, maybe if I can't find what I want, I can just do MT made me cringe. But I see that you have been reading the threads for the past few weeks, so you must be thoroughly researching as best you can in order to help your D. So I decided to get over it lol. I can only tell you one thing about Belmont. A few years ago I saw a summer dinner theatre production of Oklahoma in Jackson Hole. The girl who played Ado Annie was absolutely fantastic in both her singing and her acting--and she was a Belmont student (maybe only a sophomore). I think she might have been an MT major, though, but not sure. One other thing in your post that concerns me about the MT idea is that you say your D "enjoys" MT. I think most of the students and S/Ds of parents on this thread that are involved in MT don't just enjoy it, but are intensely passionate about it. Why else would somebody want to work so hard? Most professions do not require somebody to be an expert in three areas--one is usually enough and more than most people have (in anything)!

By Barsmom (Barsmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:11 pm: Edit

Mtmommy

I am sorry if I offended you or any of the very talented people that utilize this site. Please excuse it as an irrational, emotional plea for help from a mother that is about over the edge. My D has been involved in MT for the past 5 years, but only at the very local level. She did study dance as a child and young teen but it is not her area of talent. To be perfectly honest, I think she is intimidated by the competition. Because she lacks the well roundedness the rest of you seem to have, I have been trying to get her to see the light about her chances in MT. Tonight she told me that she thinks she is going the music education route.
She is passionate about her singing and there just doesn't seem to be a place in colleges for students that want to study voice that isn't classical.

I have to tell you I am very sad to see her let go of her dream to perform vocally. What is it that they say-Be careful what you wish for?

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

I liked the way that the CCM flyer put it:

"Today, a young performer wishing to pursue a career in musical theatre should be able to sing AND dance AND act with technical mastery and craft. And that is the MINIMUM requirement!" (their emphasis).

"In the past decade, Broadway shows have called for a startling diversity of talents. ...[shows] demanded of their casts powerful dance skills, operatic voices, prowess in roller skating, jazz improvisation, persussive effects, and a knowledge of the Kubuki stage, as well as the talent for capturing universal emotions in sound and movement. "

Anyone still interested in going for MT? :-)

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

Jrmom--I'd laugh if it wasn't so scary. I think my D better brush up her black belt Tae Kwon Do skills. She got it when she was eight . . . lol.

Barsmom--I see what you mean now--that you're trying to help your D find her direction. Is she a senior? Is it possible to make a trip to TN to sit in on the classes for the commercial music program? I know she isn't into classical music, but isn't classical vocal training essential for any singer? Isn't it possible to study classical and keep up her interest in other music by finding a school that has extracurricular vocal groups that are non-classical? Help me out here, somebody, isn't there a school in NYC that offers a vocal major that has a lot of non-classical in it?

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Another comment about the possibility of grad students teaching voice. I spoke to my D tonight and a few of her friends were there, two who are in CAP21. Neither of them, nor anyone they know has a grad TA teaching voice so it looks like that does not happen at Tisch. Private voice begins in freshman year and is required every semester of every MT student.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Doctorjohn--Your explanation about who teaches voice in the MT programs--and why is helpful, as usual. I love how you let us in on why the departments do what they do so we have more knowledge and more understanding of their dilemmas, as well. I also got very concerned at reading that TAs are teaching the freshmen voice lessons. Now I can give my D one more question to add to her list to ask each school.

By Barsmom (Barsmom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:37 pm: Edit

Mtmommy--Yes, my D is a senior. We are planning a trip to TN next month, but I feel like we should be on the plane tomorrow. It is the scariest, most helpless feeling when you are trying to help your child and you don't know where to look. Most everything I have been able to find about MT/vocal performance has been from this thread. The guidance counselors know very little about the arts at her public high school. Her voice teacher, who has been on broadway, did not point us in the right direction either. (He did not go to school for MT). He was under the impression that there were schools out there that would meet her criteria.

Thank you for being a sounding board.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Yes, it is true that Michigan freshman MT's study private voice with graduate students. While I'm sure that the reasons for this decision are varied , I'm sure that they include the fact that Michigan has a very strong and well respected Music School with lots of graduate students. We were well aware of this fact before we even applied to UM and asked why this was so when we visited and while I can't remember everything we were told, I do remember feeling reassured. One thing I do remember the upperclassmen saying was that while they were initially suspect of this policy, they were very pleased with the quality of their instruction freshman year and they appreciated the opportunity that they were given during freshman year to learn more about the voice studios of the music faculty who begin giving the private voice lessons during the sophomore year. They are allowed to observe these faculty as they teach and of course can talk to the upperclass students in each studio and get their opinions of the various strengths of the different faculty members. When the time comes, they are allowed to request the faculty member they would like to work with. Of course not everyone always gets their first choice and the faculty also have a say in who they will train. In fact, freshman MT's sing for the faculty even before classes start so the faculty can assign a graduate student who they think will be the best match for the new student. In all honesty, my D reports not being crazy about her voice teacher(after only 2-3 lessons) but unlike Dancersmom's D, she feels the teacher is quite competent. She is just not thrilled about the repertoire she is being asked to work on. However, she says she is keeping an open mind and has already been given something more to her liking and will reserve judgement for now. One of the best pieces of advice I think I have ever given her and which I think has finally sunk in is "MAKE NO SNAP JUDGEMENTS!!"

I think Doctorjohn, as usual, has the right explanation for why this situation exists in schools with strong graduate programs. I really have no problem with it as long as the student teachers have been well trained and at UM I trust that they are.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 12:17 am: Edit

OK, how about another list?

freshmen MT majors study voice with:

UMichigan - grad TA's
Otterbein - voice faculty
CCM - TA's?
Penn State - voice faculty
OCU - voice faculty
Florida State - grad TA's

Others?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 12:51 am: Edit

"Others?"....
Jrmom, I think AlwaysAMom mentioned above that at NYU/Tisch, voice faculty teach the private voice lessons to freshmen.

Barsmom, you are right that perhaps MT programs are not the right ones for your daughter, particularly if voice is her main thing and she has done less with acting or dance, and is not even sure she wants to pursue this. I also hear you asking about vocal programs in more contemporary styles of music (not talking MT now, nor classical voice). One such program in that field is at Berklee College of Music in Boston, and in fact is well known for that field. Take a look at that and see if that program is of interest. A friend of my D's who has done the musicals (as leads) but is NOT going into MT (nor truly dances or acts) but does have a very good voice and is male, got accepted to Berklee but is deferring for a year. Take a look.

Susan

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 08:14 am: Edit

At Hartt freshman study with the voice faculty. They have private lessons and a masterclass within their studio every week. Starting sophmore year MT majors also receive private vocal coaching.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 09:46 am: Edit

Updated list:

freshmen MT majors study voice with:

UMichigan - grad TA's
Otterbein - voice faculty
CCM - TA's?
Penn State - voice faculty
OCU - voice faculty
Florida State - grad TA's
NYU / Tisch - voice faculty
Hartt - voice faculty

By Georgiamom (Georgiamom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:03 am: Edit

OU - voice faculty, either MT dept or School of Music

By Emmom (Emmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:25 am: Edit

At NYU/Steinhardt freshman study with voice faculty.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:58 am: Edit

We also had a concern that our student would end up taking a step backward from the vocal training he had been receiving (a reputable college teacher in a highly regarded vocal performance program).
Fortunately he has been placed for private lessons with a CCM Doctoral student (mid-30's, masters degree from Indiana) with a reputable resume, and our son feels he is getting excellent training. It is our understanding that after freshman year, there is an opportunity to study with voice faculty.

Hope this helps answer some questions....

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Mnmom,

I hope the caliber of the grad students CCM uses for freshman MT voice has allayed your fears about taking a step backward. The grad students are drawn from the whole of CCM, not just from the MT program (in fact there are no MT grad students), and with the resources available within CCM that affords a very talented pool of prospective instructors. Having followed a daughter through graduating from CCM I can assure you that your son will not be taking a step backward in any part of his theatrical education.

By Alldressedup (Alldressedup) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 01:28 pm: Edit

At Baldwin-Wallace, freshmen study with voice faculty.

By Gkoukla (Gkoukla) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 01:42 pm: Edit

I know that freshmen at Shenandoah study with classical voice faculty. Their MT program is classically voice trained. Personally, I think classical voice is the only way to go. It gives you the stamina to sing 8 shows a week and stay strong.

On the above list when the school is listed as voice faculty, does it mean classical or theatrical? I am assuming classical, but some schools have separate MT voice faculty.

I know UMICH assigns a graduate student to the freshmen MT's. But in the sophomore year, I heard when they get a faculty member, their lessons are only one half hour per week. Is this true? I think they also have to reaudition.

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 01:43 pm: Edit

BARSMOM - I ALSO WAS GOING TO MENTION BERKLEE COLLEGE OF MUSIC IN BOSTON. SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Oh my. I almost feel guilty for raising the TA issue. Doctorjohn, thank for your explanation of why some schools use graduate assistants to teach voice. I must confess to knowing most of this already. I was feeling a little frustrated that my D is spinning her wheels. I guess my question was more a form of venting than a real inquiry, but I know that there are many people reading this board who needed to hear why schools use TA's.

I wish the world were a little more perfect. In a perfect world, there would be enough money and resources to provide private voice instruction by faculty to all MT students. I'd be interested to find out if the schools that assign freshman MT students to TA's assign any of their freshman voice majors to TA's.

A lifetime ago when I was a music student, all music majors took private lessons with faculty. No teaching assistants (TA's) were used. TA's did teach many of the lower division theory and history classes. Some of the best instructors I had as an undergraduate were TA's. On the other hand, one of the worst instructors I had was also a TA. Other students and I complained to his supervisor several times. He eventually left his program. I have also had a couple of college courses that were taught by tenured faculty members that were abominable. I want to go on record saying that I don't believe that instruction by TA's is inherently bad. (If you haven't guessed by now, I used to be a TA. I know that I tried my best to be a good instructor.) Most college professors were TA's when they were younger. One has to start learning how to teach somewhere. College instructors don't go through a licensing or certification process like elementary and H.S. teachers. There are pedagogy courses available in some disciplines and all TA's are supervised by faculty, but a lot of learning to be a college instructor is flying by the seat of one's pants.

Theatermom, I agree with your advice to your D. Make no snap judgements. That's why I counselled my D to be patient with her new voice teacher. The teacher incorrectly assumed that none of her new students would have much background in voice, so she assumed that she could spend the 1st few lessons going over the basics. She decided during my D's 1st lesson that that plan wouldn't work with her and confessed that she really didn't know what to do with her. I told D that her honesty was a good sign and that it meant she would be working hard to do a good job. Apparently, D's TA is still struggling. I'm hoping that she and my D will still find their way. I know that when I was a new teacher I made mistakes. It can't be helped. A young teacher has to start somewhere. You can't learn to teach if you don't try. It's just hard as a parent and as an experienced teacher to sit back and watch the struggle. I'm sympatheic to my D's situation and her teacher's. I'm hoping that her teacher will give her teaching duties her best efforts and that the situation will improve.

By Catherdingmom (Catherdingmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Barsmom, good luck on your trip to Nashville. Years ago I used to live within walking distance of Belmont. I don't remember a lot about the college itself, but even then it was very well respected. Belmont also has a phenomenal music business program, which is an unusual major but one which can be applied many different ways.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Theatremom,
You mentioned that your daughter wasn't necessarily enjoying the repertoire she was given in voice class. This was a reflection my daughter also had during freshman year but soon recognized there was a definate plan behind the choice of songs she was given. Her teachers were clearly challenging her to go outside her "comfort range" and take risks vocally. It was dificult and unpleasant at times for her to work through the material, but she did in fact make huge gains that were noticed at her year end review.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Updated list:

freshmen MT majors study voice with:

UMichigan - grad TA's
Otterbein - voice faculty
CCM - TA's?
Penn State - voice faculty
OCU - voice faculty
Florida State - grad TA's
NYU / Tisch - voice faculty
NYU / Steinhardt - voice faculty
Hartt - voice faculty
Baldwin Wallace - voice faculty
OU - voice faculty
Shenandoah - (classical) voice faculty

By Mtjack (Mtjack) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 03:54 pm: Edit

At Ithaca Voice faculty for freshman,

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Does anyone know when Carnegie Mellon is going to open up audition time scheduling? I tried calling Admissions last week and they said they had no idea.
Soozievt: Just got the proofs for the head shots back and they look great...thanks for the recommendation.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 09:36 pm: Edit

To add to the list...

My D gets 1/2 hour a week voice lesson with the head of voice for MT (faculty) at U Arts. She is a freshman.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Lynn, hi! I did not realize you ended up using my recommendation and I am glad it worked out and you like the proofs. That is kinda funny because while we have had our proofs in hand for about two weeks, my daughter's life is so packed right now that we had not had time to pick the headshots out until today actually! It is her birthday in fact. I had looked at them a tiny bit before this but not that seriously and recall tentatively liking a few ones the most (isn't it hard to pick just one or two from so many good ones he takes?) but never met with my daughter until today and she said she had chosen two that she was thinking of and what are the odds out of all those proofs that she had picked the same two? But she had! (we like to get two, one smiling, one more serious) Well, it was nice as there were no big arguments about it, lol. Now,I have to take care of ordering them.

If that is not enough coincidence, I have another regarding CMU with you. A few days ago, my daughter and I mapped out tentative audition dates for the year which was no easy feat not only with her schedule and the travel, but the way that some schools let you line it up now and some won't let you line it up until later, or in some cases until after applying. So, conceivably she may not get the dates she wants for a school but get her second choice which overlaps with appointments made already to another choice. What a process. This is not even counting conflicts at home with auditions and events. Anyway, I had called the schools that let you make appointments a couple days ago. CMU's directions, if I recall, mention that there is an online form for setting up the audition. When we went to look that up online and found the page, it said, "coming soon" so I called the theater department at CMU to get the scoop. I spoke to the contact person there who said it was not available yet but would go up at the end of the week (I guess not the same message you got!). Then today, there is a message on my machine from this same woman saying she is "returning my call" which does not make sense as she already returned it a few days ago and answered my query then. Not sure the mix up but got the message too late in the day. So, my D has a few auditions lined up, the ones that let you reserve already basically. She has one app in which is rolling and you have to be invited to audition in that case. So much to do, so little time (that will be this forum's mantra!). If ya find a way to line up the CMU one ,let me know but check back on the website I guess. I am trying to get a date that is back to back with the one we lined up at PSU as they are in the same state and I want to do one trip to that region, likely flying into Pittsburgh and driving to Penn State. I hope that she does not get a tough time from teachers/directors, et. al. in her activities and such when she has to travel to these college auditions, but it is not like she can skip getting into college. But the travel alone will involve missing various things here.

Susan

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit

Susan, what schools have you scheduled auditions for yet? and if u want to share what dates?

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:15 pm: Edit

Soozievt - So far we've set up a pretty good schedule for auditions. CMU is the main one we are waiting for. Each day I check the web site, but still "Coming Soon" never seems to come! Hopefully, it really will be soon. There were a lot of nice pics to choose from for the headshots. My D picked one that's a nice, safe kind of smile. Everyone else (me, included) decided we had to get this other similar picture with a bigger smile, which is my daughter's real smile. It's not really a great "head shot pic", but it shows her real personality! I got that one in color, since I like it better than her graduation picture and may have some of those made up for relatives instead.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Hi everyone,

I have gotten a few emails asking me to share information about my D's experiences at UMuch so far. My intention has always been to wait awhile before doing this for several reasons. First, she has only been in class for about a month. We all know that as with any new situation there will be some "settling" in to be done. There is a lot to get used to and I'm not sure that any freshman's take on their program at this point in time is going to be truly reflective of the quality of the overall educational experience at any institution. Secondly, each student comes to their college experience with different sets of skills, training and expectations, i.e., their feelings about the classes they take are going to their own and most likely different from other students in the same classes. My concern here comes from some of the reactions I see the posters on this thread having to some of the opinions posted here. I am concerned that in your eagerness to find "just the right program" for your child, the stress of the college evaluation/application process is causing you to "translate" opinion into fact. All of us who already have children in these programs hear lots of information from our students. Oftentime, the information changes DAILY!! What was a great teacher one week is a terrible teacher the next week when something happens they don't like. The dance teacher whose class was moving too slow last week, is a hero this week because as a result of working slowly they identified a basic placement issue and offered a way to work on it.

So while my intention is still to share factual information we have as a result of having gone through this process and SOME general reflections and anecdotal information about my daughter's experiences as a way to shed light on what it is like to be a student in the UMich MT program, I will probably not continue to share her specific reactions to either her coursework or her teachers. I've decided that doing so is fraught with possibilities for false generalizations and misinterpretations and as such is unfair to the program.

Hope you all will understand this choice and keep these thoughts in mind as you read other posts.

Monkey

With regard to repertoire choice, I couldn't agree with you more. I have total trust in the UMich faculty and the choices they are making with regard to the training of my D. The reputation of the School of Music is exceptional. The TA's are all from the graduate vocal performance program and our understanding of the professional way in which students are trained in vocal technique at UM was only one of the factors that convinced us that the excellent reputation of the undergraduate MT BFA program is absolutely deserved.

By Henrob (Henrob) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Barsmom,
I have been reading this site for about a month now. My daughter is a HS Freshman but very interested in MT, so I am enjoying the info but up to now had very little to contribute.
BUT, I have a son who is a Senior at Belmont studying Commercial Violin. He has studied classical violin since 5 but told me in HS he would go crazy if he spent his life in an orchestra somewhere. He loves performing various music live and studio work.
The Commercial music program is huge at Belmont. Although there are many commercial instrumentalist, the biggest group are commercial singers, the majority being very talented girls. Many beauty pageant winners, including several Miss TN, are from Belmont. And it is not all country music. Of course there are plenty students there that are trying to be the next Trisha Yearwood or Brad Paisley (former Belmont students and current CM stars), but many are going for MT, Contemporary Christian, rock, etc.
The students must take 4 semesters on classical lessons in their field, but my son will continue to take classical lessons all the way through. My son also studies privately with a former member of the "Turtle Island Quartet", which is the premier jazz string quartet in the country. So they have some quality faculty. You can look at the teachers they have for the Commercial voice majors at their web site I believe (I have not reviewed that recently).
My S had a music theory background when he got to Belmont as a Freshman so had no trouble with it. Many of the Commercial students struggle with music theory due to a lack of classical training. So if your D is weak in that she will not be alone.
My S has loved it there and it is definitely the place for him. But I understand the competition in the commercial voice dept. is pretty stiff. Nashville is a strong music center, country and otherwise. Many kids want to be there. If I can help with more info I will try. Good luck.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:01 am: Edit

Lynn, I am so glad you posted because you just reminded me of something I totally forgot. In the past, you could not get color shots from the headshots with the film he used but now it is all digital and you can get it in black and white or color. Obviously the headshots for audition purposes are in black and white. But he did mention that you can get the same one in color and like you, I thought, perfect for the senior portraits for family, etc. We had decided early on (without even knowing that he could give you the same shot in color) that her headshots would also serve as her senior portraits because it is an expensive package and where we live, so are getting senior portraits done at a photographer's as we did last year for our senior (spent just as much for those). So, for this kid, her senior picture was going to be her headshot. When I heard he could print out the same one in color, even better. I had totally forgotten about that until I just read your post and was going to call to order tomorrow so I am glad I read this thread! However, my daughter has told me she is not going to use the portrait/headshot for the yearbook, which bothers me though I know it is her yearbook, not mine. Here, kids get like a third of a yearbook page and often have one big picture (often a portrait but not always) and can add some small ones too (i.e., older D had one of her skiing at age one, as she is a racer, another photo of her with her sister, etc.), and then they have printed out their "wills" and so forth. I cannot imagine why she would not want to use a nice picture for the main photo and then add the smaller photos of herself doing whatever. She wants to use some regular type picture for the main entry. Oh well, I did not have the headshots done for the yearbook anyway but thought it would be used for that too. But I will see about how to get color ones for family and for ourselves. We usually do let her get two poses and I do like the smiling ones for ourselves but let her have one of that type and one without a smile as well.

Mtfan, you asked for the scheduled ones so far and the dates? Is it just so you want to see if we might run into one another? I guess that is why you are asking. I just realized that many of us might run into one another and not even know it. Let me go see which dates are confirmed....
I guess just three thus far because of the process not being the same everywhere and these were the only possible ones of her list so far allowed to schedule:
Jan. 28 at Syracuse
Jan. 29 at Ithaca
Feb. 26 at PSU

Requested Jan. 14 for UMich.

Care to share yours or anyone else? We'll all just have to wear some ribbon or some such, lol.

Susan

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:33 am: Edit

Haha, good idea. Right now I've got
Syracuse - Jan 4th (In chicago)
Otterbein - Feb 7th (Chicago)

Requested
Baldwin-Wallace - Feb 19
PSU - Jan 22

and I have dates in mind for the rest but still need to schedule them

Too bad we dont have any of the same dates, It would have been nice you meet your D. By the way that's what I was asking, haha.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 01:01 am: Edit

Mtfan, yes, it would be great to connect with others on this great forum here at auditions. I do not know if the rest of your list is the same schools or not. We also have mapped out the other first choice audition dates but don't know as of yet what will be for sure with those. She is auditioning on site at each school. By the time auditions roll around, she will have visited four of her 8 schools, so when we go to auditions, four of them she will be visiting for the first time ever.

If anyone else has dates that coincide, stay in touch.

Susan

I'm rooting for you all! Hopefully some will meet up here this winter at some point.
Susan

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 08:00 am: Edit

Soozievt: Same Ithaca-Jan. 29!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:33 am: Edit

Lynn, great! When the time comes, we oughta meet up while the girls are in doing their thing. Bring that lovely headshot! What state are you coming from? Hope we don't drive through a snowstorm. During Jan. with my other daughter, when driving home from Cornell, it was a blinding snowstorm for part of my drive and not fun. Unfortunately auditions are not in summer,lol.
Susan

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Soozievt - Absolutely...We're from New Jersey, so hopefully with 4 wheel drive we can get there!

By Newmtmom (Newmtmom) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 04:53 pm: Edit

If you haven't found out already--the CMU site is up.

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 06:30 pm: Edit

Newmtmom - I can't seem to find the site for CMU. What should I be typing in order to get it? Could you help me out? I don't understand why it's not working for me....frustrated.

By Newmtmom (Newmtmom) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit

The college web sites drive me nuts--I've wasted more time trying to navigate some of these sites. Anyway, here's the info: www.cmu.edu/admissions/finearts

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Ugh! Everytime I try that, I get "Coming Soon!!" I don't get it....

By Frozenchosenak3 (Frozenchosenak3) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Can anyone tell me about the summer programs for high school students at OCU, CMU and Cherubs program? Do all of these require auditions?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Newmtmom, thanks for the heads up this afternoon that the CMU audition request form was finally online. I went to it and my D will be going on Feb. 27 to the 1 PM audition, in case any of you are as well.

Lynn, it is frustrating at their website to be sure. I don't think by just navigating their website that you would find this page and I know that I did not either. I only found it by looking at their brochure we have at home that mentions the webpage address for the audition appointments. Mine did work late this afternoon, though did not a couple days ago. Newmtmom has the address in her post above, so I hope you are able to get to it. Each school handles this very differently. We had to make a list of the procedure for audition appointments for each school just to get it straight.

Here is a question if someone might know.....has anyone done the PSU application? My daughter was working on it tonight and I do not see any essay on it but a short brief question that has a space for perhaps 100 words or so (talking the hard copy application). That is IT? When I was on the phone the other day making the audition appointment and the person was chatting with me and asking if my D had sent in the application and I said she was getting to it this week but I did not see an essay and it did seem like very much to do and she said, oh, they have to write an essay....though she admitted not being familiar with the admissions application (as this was the theater phone number I was talking to.) I would think there would be an essay! My niece is a freshman there and I swore she had to write an essay.

It is SUCH a contrast to the applications my older D (now a college freshman) had to do for selective colleges, often numerous essays. This one seems so simplistic to me, but I guess because it is such a large school. Then again, UMich is a large school and that application was more involved, plus the musical theater separate application materials. So, do any of you know if Penn State has a true essay or just this short answer brief one? Seems like barely any work! (not complaining considering how many there are to do and the lack of any down time here). By the way, tomorrow AM my daughter has an interview for CMU with an admissions person in a city in our state. I doubt it counts for much since the audition is like 90% of admissions there.

Susan

By Newmtmom (Newmtmom) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:48 pm: Edit

lynnm, try www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/finearts. see if that works. And try typing it in fresh.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Susan,

PSU does require an essay but the topic comes from the Theater Dept as I recall. I believe they give you a choice and I think it was sent to us by a person in the Theater Dept. The college application is pretty cut and dried but there is another part. Call the Theater Dept again and ask for Cary Libkin's office.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Theatermom, thanks. But actually I do have that information because earlier this week when I called to get my D an audition appointment, I was told that the theater department would be sending a packet that involved an assigned essay topic and two recs by those in the arts that need to be submitted up to two weeks prior to the audition appointment.

I was just speaking in my earlier post of the application for Penn State itself, seems very simple and no essay on it but the short answer question. If that is all there is, it is the least I have seen on a regular application (just from two kids, not a huge sample, lol). I think the question asked is not looking for a full page type essay because they only give like two inches of writing space, as if meant to be one of those short answer type questions (mini mini essay). I looked over everything and saw no true essay like most applications. So, I hope I have this right. But yes, for theater, there will be more. But for the rolling app part, it is very simple.

Susan

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 12:34 am: Edit

I've sent my PSU app in and the only thing I had to write was a short descritive statement that was only allowed to be 1200 characters long including spaces. I thought this was a little weird but oh well, at least it was easy. BTW i did mine online.

Also I've just found out that Millikin accepts 20 MT students each year and they normally have about 175 audition, also each person they accept gets some type of talent scholarship. Hope this helps someone!

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 07:59 am: Edit

Susan,

In truth, the "simplest" application we did was for CCM, which as I understand it, you won't be doing. But their application makes it perfectly clear that at CCM it is ALL about the audition.

By Ilmomsk (Ilmomsk) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:13 am: Edit

frozenchosen
There is no requirement for a live audition for Cherubs, but you need to do the paper ap, rec, resume, +transcript for the regular theater arts, and you must send in a videotape if you want to go for the musical theater 2 week extension. Try to get good sound and make sure the piano accompaniment is not too loud. There is an essay for everyone to do also. The big thing is getting that application in on time-around March, I believe.
The Cherubs program is wonderful, one of those Life Experiences, but it is very intense-you work all day from 8 am until 10 pm, but the kids my D met were fantastic! And NW is pretty in the summer.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:02 am: Edit

Theatermom, yeah, I realize at certain schools, it is almost all about the audition and barely much on the other qualifications, just as long as you are above some minimum academic standard. In fact, I just got home from the CMU interview and the admissions officer basically told my daughter that the MT program tells them the 12 kids they want and the admissions folks give them a yay or nay. We have known from day one that pretty much my child's academics were not going to play into the decision and getting in on the academic end of most of these schools was a piece of cake as she is beyond their min. requirements by a lot. I think most of the applicants can say that.

The two schools on her list where academics are truly weighed are NYU and UMich and in fact, these two schools in their own right, theater programs aside, are challenging schools to be admitted to academically. At NYU, they weigh the academic qualifications/application equally with the artistic review. At UMich, you have to be invited to audition based on "passing through" the academic review first. I think academically my D is qualified for those two schools but they are not that easy to get into academically, so you never know and can't count on it. By the same token those two schools are the most appealing to her as they value a liberal arts component (though still have conservatory style training) and the rest of the student body and academic departments are quite strong and she is that type of student to crave challenging learning environments, so they fit in that respect. That is a bit different than how CCM is, for example, where the academic qualifications are not important, as well as the academic rigor of the rest of the school not being as challenging. Initially in her search, CCM was a favorite but now that she has really weighed the various criteria in a program, she has ruled out CCM. As discussed on other threads, the cut program itself is an issue.

MTfan, we pretty much read the Penn State app as you did but again, it is so much simpler than other apps she has done and all the ones my other daughter did last year.

Susan

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:36 am: Edit

Since we seem to be off this topic now:

Updated list (Oct 8)

freshmen MT majors study voice with:

UMichigan - grad TA's
Otterbein - voice faculty
CCM - TA's?
Penn State - voice faculty
OCU - voice faculty
Florida State - grad TA's
NYU / Tisch - voice faculty
NYU / Steinhardt - voice faculty
Hartt - voice faculty
Baldwin Wallace - voice faculty
OU - voice faculty
Shenandoah - (classical) voice faculty
Ithaca - voice faculty
U of the Arts - voice faculty

By 5pants (5pants) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 12:05 pm: Edit

Jrmom,

I checked with my sons....Webster has voice faculty give private 50 minute music voice lessons once a week. I must establish it as "music voice" as they also have voice for the actor.

Have a good weekend everyone!

SUE

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 02:29 pm: Edit

I'M STILL GETTING THE "COMING SOON" AT THE CMU AUDITION WEB SITE. I'VE TRIED TYPING IT IN, CUTTING A PASTING, ETC. NO LUCK. ANY TRICKS?

SO FAR OUR AUDITION TIMES ARE:
EMERSON - DEC. 5
SYRACUSE - JAN 8 (IN LOS ANGELES)
ITHACA - FEB. 13 (IN LOS ANGELES)

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Catsmom--As you probably know by now, my D is just a junior, but we live in CA and I was interested to see that your post about an audition in LA for Syracuse. Do they go it alone at that time? Did you find other schools that have LA auditions other than the unified on Feb. 13? This was a surprise to me, although Syracuse itself is a little too far away in our case.

A question about Northwestern for anyone: I've seen the past postings about the difficulty of the admissions for NU in terms of academic record. I know this is true for UMich, but that they are claiming these rules are relaxed somewhat (note that I wrote "somewhat") for music dept. auditioners. I am wondering if this is true for NU. My D and I had decided not to consider NU, and then her dad said why isn't she checking into it. So now I am trying to find out if it's worth her time or not.

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit

MTMOMMY,
YES, SAYRACUSE IS DOING AUDITIONS ALONE IN L.A. (NOT WITH THE OTHER UNIFIEDS). THIS DEFINITELY HELPS SPREAD OUT THE AUDITIONS A LITTLE. THEY JUST SCHEDULED AN APPT. ON THE PHONE WITHOUT HAVING THE APPLICATION IN YET. SOME OF THEM WANT THE APPLICATION FIRST, WHICH IS MUCH HARDER, OF COURSE. WE CAN'T POSSIBLY FIT THEM ALL IN ON ONE DAY, BUT SOME OF THE SCHOOLS, LIKE CMU, COME TO L.A. FOR 2 DAYS. IF WE HAVE TO I GUESS WE'LL FLY UP TO SAN FRANCISCO THE DAY BEFORE FOR THEIR UNIFIEDS. SO FAR, SYRACUSE IS THE ONLY SCHOOL THAT COMES ON A DIFFERENT DAY THAT I HAVE FOUND. I STILL CAN'T GET ON TO CMU'S AUDITION SITE.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Another technical question from Jrmom:

When the song and monologue are finished, if the adjudicators/auditioners (whatever they are called) are still writing on their papers, is the student supposed to a) stand there patiently, b) say "thanks" and leave the room, or c) what?

What does audition etiquette say?

????

By Aspiringactress (Aspiringactress) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:24 pm: Edit

Hi everyone!
I have been reading this board since the summer and I can't even TELL you how helpful it has been. Wow you guys are all amazing and I hope you keep it going. I am a junior and am planning on going into either musical theatre or acting (I haven't decided quite yet!) in college. The schools I am most interested in (for MT, which I am leaning towards right now) are UM, CMU, Emerson, Boston Conservatory, Penn state, Syracuse, Point Park, Ithaca, and OCU. Of course, these are mostly Ivies, but I have a while to narrow down my list and I already have a few safeties I am considering.
But anyway, my question is actually about academic requirements, which isn't something usually discussed here (although I think my question is timely as academics were recently brought up), but because the process is different for MT majors, I thought you might know better than those on the other boards who are going into science, etc. I am taking Pre-Calculus this year, and took my first year of high school level math in 8th grade. However, that course won't count towards my graduation and won't go on my transcript. I was accepted into the advanced drama class at my school (we have a GREAT drama program and numerous levels of drama classes), which is a year-long class, very worthwhile and important to me, and it is only through this class that one can participate in the annual winter production(s). I also want to take it next year, as well as the musical production class second semester of this year and next. I still need to get in two occ. ed credits (ugghh), so next year I will need to drop something. Do you think I would not even be considered at colleges such as U Mich because I wouldn't TECNICALLY have four years of math in high school? (Even though I am at the level of math most people at my school are in their senior year and colleges will see on my transcript I was taking sophomore level math freshman year, etc?) What do you think? Would admissions let it slide if I am applying for musical theatre? I also will have 3 years of Latin and all my science requirements, as well as several AP's and a decent GPA (3.7-ish), so it's not like I am not a good student. Any thoughts? These decisions are so hard when there is a great drama program within a public high school, that most of us joke that there should be a class at the beginning of freshman year entitled "How Drama Kids Can ACTUALLY Graduate High School" lol. Thanks again for all your help with this crazy process!

By Marissal (Marissal) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Catsmom,
Try going straight to the drama auditon site?
http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/finearts/SchoolofDrama.html

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Aspiringactress--I think you're going to need another year of math. Can you take an online math course to get the 4th year in? There's been a bit of a discussion on the thread about online courses for academics b/c it's been an issue for my D.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Catsmom, my daughter is trying for that same date at Emerson. The way I read it is that if you apply EA (she will), you can request in terms of a preference (order them 1, 2, 3) of three possible audition dates. Are you saying your D requested Dec. 5 or that she was already told that day will be her day? The request goes in with the application (not like the schools you can call and set up an audition date without the application being received). My daughter can only do Dec. 5 of the three EA dates offered because on the two Nov. dates, she is a a production in our state. So, she can only request Dec. 5. She is working on that app next, in the coming days. So, I hope we meet you on that date. We are going to visit Emerson in two weeks. My D has some friends in the program who like it a lot.

On the PSU stuff, today my D got the confirmation in the mail regarding the audition appointment and the essay topics were enclosed for the Theater department. The regular app is just that little brief statement.

Welcome AspiringActress! You raise a good question. It is hard to advise you without knowing the schedule options of what you would have had to drop (in other words, what else besides math could be rearranged?). First off, let me say that it is really great that your school has drama classes at all, let alone levels of it (we have none) and that the musical production is a class (not the case here, it is ALL after school every day). And I do believe these courses/shows are important for you to do as this is the field you wish to pursue.

As far as the math (not talking the schedule issues for the moment).....yes, you are accelerated in math. Here the high school math courses taken in middle school ARE on the transcript for HS credit. My D also is accelerated in Math two years and took two high school math courses in middle school which are on her transcript. So, as a junior now (well, it is her junior year but she is also a senior too in the fact that she is graduating early), she is up to AP Calculus. Now, just like you, one could say she has had four years of high school math already so why take Calculus....not needed for graduation, nor for her future major. BUT, I believe, particularly for the more challenging colleges on her list such as NYU or UMich, she should continue to take math because she should take the most challenging classes she can...even if she never takes math again in college. What happened in her case was that Calculus could not fit in her schedule because it conflicts with the highest level of English/History class she must take and there is only one Calculus class in the school. Normally they make sure the highest math class is not in conflict with the highest core classes in other subjects for that grade (as it is often the same group of kids taking these classes) but it is NOT normal at all here for a junior to be in Calculus as she is because of two years of acceleration so it is scheduled when it works for seniors but not juniors, thus it conflicts with her other core classes. Some might say, forget math then. But we felt she should take math each year of high school despite not needing the credits to graduate, like you. She is in independent study AP Calculus under the supervision of the Calc teacher...she is not in the class but sits one period a day in his office and is given all the assignments and is self teaching basically, all for credit. That is just one solution to the conflict issue.

But as far as the math issue itself, yes, I think it is a good thing to keep taking classes (most challenging ones possible) in all core areas each year if going for some selective colleges who do care about these things and I think this DOES matter for a school like UMich or NYU. NYU is not on your list and you MIGHT be ok then because at the other schools, you are ahead of what they have as academic requirements. Still, I would have kept math but figured a way to make the schedule work and I do not know your other options of what to cut. I do think you should take the drama/musical classes. Perhaps one subject can be done via independent study as one option. I would have to know what the options were here before saying to cut a core subject like Math. I realize you are ahead in math but I still think they like to see you do math each year, at least for the more selective colleges. You may be fine with the others on your list, however. Some have more minimal academic requirements to be admitted.

Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:47 pm: Edit

I did not see MTMommy's post when I posted above but I am glad she mentioned online courses. My older daughter took second year AP Calculus as an online course via Johns Hopkins CTY and that IS an option for you! She did that because like my other daughter, she had accelerated two years in math and had taken AP Calculus as a junior which is as high as our math curriculum goes (because even accelerated kids don't get to it normally until senior year here). So she had no math to take senior year and thus wanted to continue in math (relates more to her major than you guys) and did the online math course and got high school credit for it too (not that she needed credits but wanted colleges to see it on her transcript). Great option for you! It does cost money though. My second child is just graduating a year early so won't have to deal with this kind of thing next year of having exhausted courses in some subjects at the school.

Susan

By Monydad (Monydad) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:53 pm: Edit

I have a question regarding legacy preference in MT admissions, specifically at Tisch. My daughter is likely to want to apply there, I think, and she is a legacy.

NYU's stated position in general is as follows:

" If your application is otherwise competitive, the fact that you are the child of an alumnus or alumna of NYU may help influence the admissions decision.

However, having an NYU graduate in the family won't compensate for a mediocre academic record, and no one is admitted solely because they are related to an NYU alumni/ae.

Whether an applicant is the child of alum will not be a deciding factor in our admission review."

I can see how this would work for admission to Arts& Sciences, but I'm not so sure about Tisch, in programs where auditions are required.

What I was wondering is, given all the audition requirements, etc, for MT, would they really give the legacy item the same weight for this particular school/ major as for other less competitive areas of the university? OR is legacy worth absolutely nothing for this particular school/ major ?

Anyone have an informed opinion? A guess?

By Peggy (Peggy) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:15 pm: Edit

Hi! Just wanted to pop in and give my 2c worth regarding Math. My daughter was also a year ahead in Math. Took her Freshman math (Algebra I) in the 8th grade, etc. Her Junior year, she took Calculas rather than AP Calculas. Her Senior year, she took NO math. Instead, she took Creative Writing.

Her high school transcrips lists her Algebra I and mentions that it was taken in the 8th grade. She graduated with a "Four Year Academic Award" which means she took all four core subjects every year, even though she didn't take math her Senior Year.

AND, she was accepted to audition at U of Mich.

Peg

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:15 pm: Edit

Aspiring actress,

My D is a freshman MT at UMich and while she had four years of high school math, pre-calculus was her most advanced math class and she took it as a senior. Once at UM as an MT you don't ever have to take math or science again unless you want to take them as part of your liberal arts electives. I really think you'll be fine if you can't take math as a senior. BUT, as with most things, the best information you'll get is by calling the Admissions office(s) at UM. Posters here, myself included, can only give you their opinions on issues such as this. Call both the University Admissions office AND the Admissions office at the School of Music. Tell them your situation and ask their opinion. Make sure and get the names and positions of the people to whom you speak.

Best of luck!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Aspiringactress--I think I misread your post in some way; I'm so sorry! I do think a lot of schools will count that 8th grade course IF it is Algebra I. For example, FSU does, as do the Arizona universities (I realize you aren't considering these schools). We live in California, and when my son was applying to colleges, we discovered that his 8th grade Algebra I did NOT count in the California public universities. For some of the smaller schools, I'll bet you have plenty of math. I'm not sure about UMich because they have that strange 11 year rule. I'd love to hear an answer from someone who knows, also, about UMich.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:55 pm: Edit

Hi there,

Just wanted to let you all know that I updated the website with links to the threads and various bits of info that have come in. Still having a great time and am as busy as heck!

Shauna

By Aspiringactress (Aspiringactress) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 12:05 am: Edit

Thank you all sooo much for your responses, and wow that was really fast haha. Mtmommy yes it was Algebra I that I took in 8th grade, but I just had a meeting with my couselor the other day because she had just received my transcript from my old school (I went to a different school in a different district freshman year) and she told me that the class would not go on my transcript for colleges, which really did not make sense to me, since it was a high school level class? I think I will talk to her about that again, because even if I don't get a graduation credit, I would really like it to be on my transcript (which probably is impossible lol). Anyway, Peggy- Thanks for the encouraging words, the only problem is that this year I am taking PRE-Calculus, rather than actual Calculus like your daughter did junior year and next year I would move straight to AP Calc. So I don't know if colleges would look down upon me never having taken actual Calc if that makes sense... About the online classes, or independent studies, math is very, VERY difficult for me and I really don't know how well I would do without someone explaining to me every day (my mind is not the analytical kind haha). So I am not sure how that would work. I MIGHT be able to take my advanced drama on contract like a friend of mine is doing this year or maybe I could just take an occ ed online. I WISH I could take a class over the summer but I'm applying to several summer programs so that's really out of the question. Anyway thanks so much for your responses, I will definitely call UMICH sometime soon. If anyone has any other comments feel free to respond!

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 07:12 am: Edit

My D had a similar situation on an 8th grade subject when transferring into a new district. What was finally decided here - If your OLD school granted credit for the class, and it appeared on the HS transcript, then the new school had to pass it through onto theirs. (Of course, it took an extra meeting with the counselor, and a few weeks, to come up with this answer!)

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 07:49 am: Edit

Marissal - Thanks for that other link to CMU. I don't understand, but my computer was doing the same thing. The regular site only said "Coming Soon". At work, I was able to get to the audition site, but my computer wasn't able to process the credit card info! It was so frustrating. I felt like it was some kind of bad sign. Once again, thanks, and good luck!

By Lookingmt (Lookingmt) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 10:35 am: Edit

Wow..thanks for the info on voice faculty. I am very suprised that CCM and UofMichigan do not teach freshmen voice with voice faculty.

I now get it why I talked to a friend who attended Michigan and complained about the quality of voice instruction their freshman year (they left after the first year).

I, myself, would not look at a school where you were not taught by faculty members. TA's can be fine but they lack the years of experience that most voice faculty members have. That really makes a difference in teaching.

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 10:42 am: Edit

Hi all:

Just wanted to remind you that the first round of auditions for Oklahoma City University are November 19th and 20th. A friend tried to get in for the 19th and was put on the stand by list as they are already full.

I highly recommend that interested MT students attend one of these auditions. This is when you can be considered for the most scholarship money. My D received a very nice amount after last November's auditions.

Here's the link: http://www.okcu.edu/music/

And yes..OCU's triple threat major has been eliminated.

Also..check out the web cam and watch the new school being bulit. It's very cool!

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 11:41 am: Edit

I'm going to try again with this question, since I know there is experience out there!

"When the song and monologue are finished, if the adjudicators/auditioners (whatever they are called) are still writing on their papers, is the student supposed to a) stand there patiently, b) say "thanks" and leave the room, or c) what?"

I can't find the answer in any of the books you guys have recommended.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Jrmom, I don't know the "official" answer to your question but in my view, I would never leave the audition room until the auditioners indicated that the audition was over. I would wait for THEM to say "thank you very much" or whatever else they may come up with. I would not just leave when done a monologue or song. If someone is writing, then stand and wait for a signal as to what is next. They may have a question, they may tell you thank you, etc. I think this is true of ANY audition, not just for college.

Susan

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Great, Susan, thanks. That makes sense.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Jrmom, I'll echo Susan's great advice here. As she said, at ANY audition, you never leave until excused by the auditors. At college auditions, it's very common to have an 'interview' or even a mini-interview with the auditors after you're finished your song and/or monologue. Often you'll be asked why you chose a particular monologue, or what you think the significance of the monologue is in the entirety of the play, what you think the motivation of the particular character is, etc. This is why it's essential that students be familiar with the entire play and be prepared to discuss it.

At the Tisch audition, you will also be asked to discuss your choice of studio, and why you think that particular studio is right for you. It's a good idea to be familiar with all of them and their techniques (even if you're auditioning for CAP21, but moreso for the majority who are willing to accept another studio). My D had to discuss her decision to apply to Tisch, as well as her decision to study in this field. I'm not sure how in depth this interview/discussion is at other colleges because she was admitted E.D., and thankfully we were finished by Dec. 13. However, many friends from her arts h/s are at other programs and I know from them, that several other programs include a time a talk to the auditionees about such issues.

By Wct (Wct) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 01:10 pm: Edit

I saw an interesting article on Yahoo this morning. Check out this article:


U.S. National - AP


Enthusiasm Trend Up in College Admissions

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 01:56 pm: Edit

MARISSAL,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT LINK. IT WORKED! I WAS FINALLY ABLE TO GET HER DATE AT CMU (FEB. 14 IN LOS ANGELES).

SOOZIEVT,
I RECEIVED COMFIRMATION FOR THE DEC. 5 DATE BY E-MAIL ON 10/6. IT GAVE INFORMATION REGARDING THE REQUIREMENTS NEEDED FOR THE AUDITION: 1 TWO TO THREE MINUTELY MONOLOGUE FROM A CONTEMPORARY PLAY AND 32 BARS FROM 2 CONTRASTING SONGS. IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO WRITE OUT THE WHOLE LETTER, LET ME KNOW. THEY SAID I WILL BE RECEIVING A LETTER IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS CONFIRMING THIS DATE AND TIME (12/5 AT 9:00 AM) AS WELL AS OTHER PERTINENT INFORMATION. THIS WAS MY FIRST CHOICE AS FAR AS THE DATE. I SENT IN THE ART REGISTRATION FORM ON 9/7 AS IT WAS THE EASIEST TO DO AND DIDN'T NEED AN ESSAY. BUT I'M SURE YOU KNOW THIS. I'M MAKING NOTES IN EACH FILE AS THEY ARE ALL STARTING TO MESH TOGETHER IN MY BRAIN. I REALLY DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT EMERSON, SO IF YOU HAVE ANY INFO, PLEASE SHARE.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 05:23 pm: Edit

FYI: UMich sent my D this message in an email:

For the School of Music there is no required curriculum that a student must take, other than that it should be of a college prep background.

It looks like this means they are giving themselves more latitude in choosing students this way, but it makes it a little more precarious for students, doesn't it? If they have to get conditionally admitted to UMich before they can audition . . . .

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

As that email came from the School of Music, make sure the "regular" Admissions department, which is the one that evaluates the regular UMich application, feels the same way. They probably have the same requirements, but just to be safe....

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 06:33 pm: Edit

OK, thanks, Theatermom!

By Laurenz (Laurenz) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Catsmom,

If you have any questions about Emerson, fire away. My son is a sophomore MT BFA and this semester is abroad studying at their castle in The Netherlands. I've never seen him happier.

Lauren

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 08:42 pm: Edit

Catsmom, you mean you can send in a registration form WITHOUT Or BEFORE sending in the application to Emerson? Geez, I have to look it all over. My daughter's schedule is such that she is barely ever home. She took out the Emerson application to get started this AM and was talking about the various essays required plus I think she should go for the Honors Program which had additional essays. She discussed her topics on our many LONG car rides to her stuff today (I'm back home now but she won't be until midnight). I knew you can fill in audition request dates but thought that that had to go in WITH the application (sort of like UMichigan). I better look all of it over tomorrow because she could be requesting an audition date NOW and considering only one of the EA dates would work for her due to her show, that would help. I would think she will need a week or so to do the entire application given her schedule so I will definitely read this closer and thank you VERY much.

As far as telling you about Emerson, I am not sure exactly what to share about it and obviously some here have kids in the program and my D just has friends in it. But we are going to visit in two weeks so I will try to write that up when we return, plus we are visiting Boston Conservatory as well.

I can tell you that Boston itself is a great place to go to college as I went to both undergraduate and graduate school in Boston and loved it.

Susan

By Marissal (Marissal) on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Soozie, they recommend you send in the audition request sheet as soon as possible. So yes, before the application. I sent mine a couple weeks ago and requested Dec 4 (i'm just auditioning for acting, not MT). Basically they started schedueling people Oct 1 in the order audition applications were received.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 12:19 am: Edit

Marrisal, thank you very much. When we wrote down all the audition info. for each school, must have missed that and had it down as request along with application. So, hope she did not miss out but I just told her (it is very late at night and I just got her) and we will make sure she sends that portion in without waiting until she does the application which she is starting tomorrow. This forum is great. I hope it works out for her to get Dec. 5 for a date and if not, she will have to go with the regular decision dates. Hope some of us meet up at these things this winter.

Susan

By Monkey (Monkey) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 08:38 am: Edit

Susan,
I see that you plan to be in State College for the Penn State audition on Feb.26. Feel free to e mail me if you have any questions. We live in town and I might be able to help you out with questions regarding travel, lodging, etc. That is also the night that the School of Theatre musical closes and you'll probably want to see it. The were to produce Chicago but just recently found there was a problem with the rights due to the fact that a touring company is doing it at about the same time in Hershey, Pa. ( not even that close to State College! ) They are doing Sweet Charity instead.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 10:50 am: Edit

Monkey, Thanks so much for the offer of information and such regarding the Penn State visit. I am not up to planning the logistics of that but it might get complicated. I think she would love to see the production (that would be great to do at any school and is not as likely to coordinate with audition dates) and in fact, she (and I) love Sweet Charity. But the next day is her CMU audition so I am not sure how all this traveling will work out and I have not begun to even contemplate it at this juncture with so much more pressing stuff going on.

I figured we would have to fly from Burlington, VT to Pittsburgh and then rent a car and drive to PSU and then drive back from PSU to Pittsburgh for the next day's CMU audition (though I scheduled that one for the afternoon and I SUPPOSE maybe we could not drive over to Pittsburgh until early Sunday morning if she wanted to stay in State College to see the show.) My niece is a freshman at Penn State also so not sure how that will figure in and if she would want to spend one night in a dorm. Can you fly between Pittsburgh and State College? Maybe that will figure into this very full two days in two locations, given how far we live in the first place. As it gets closer to figuring that out, I hope I remember to take up your offer about more information. My next college trip is in two weeks and so I can just deal one at a time.

I am glad you told me about the show though and while I am not sure if it will work to see it, maybe we could. Is it also playing on Friday night? Of course, I don't know that we would be there in time for that night. Actually, I just remembered that she is on school vacation then so might be able to get there early enough on Friday to see the show if there is a Friday night performance.

We tried to fit both CMU and Penn State into one weekend as they are in the same direction (relative to here) and there are so many trips to fit into two months to audition and it made sense to combine these two into one, added with the flight expense. But yes, it involves travel each day and so it could cut down the "free time" on a campus. But I will keep this in mind and contemplate not leaving for CMU til the next morning or even looking into flights rather than car to save time. Or maybe there is a Friday night show and the fact that it is vacation here will be advantageous in this regard.

Susan

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 12:10 pm: Edit

MTjack - I just happened to go back to Part 28 and saw your reply re. Ithaca. Thanks!

By Monkey (Monkey) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Susan,
There is a performance on Friday night which might work out better for you. My mind reels thinking of how complicated it was to coordinate all of the audition dates, and we didn't travel as far or to as many as most families seem to do. It really would be best to arrive the night before the CMU audition if possible in order for your daughter to be at her best. Of course that luxury may not be possible depending on the other travel factors. It is about a three hour drive to Pittsburgh from State College and there are flights available although fewer than before due to the bankruptcy of US Air which was the main commuter company. As you get closer to the date just let me know if I can be of help.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Monkey, yes, even though I truthfully have not thought about that trip other than to schedule the auditions, my gut feeling when scheduling was that we would be driving Sat. night from Penn State to CMU for the next day's audition, NOT Sunday morning. Normally I would not be able to get there for a Fri. night show but since she does not have school, maybe we could fly to Pittsburgh, drive to State College and get there in time for the show. As well, I will have to factor my niece into it as she is a student there and of course, we would have to see her. Maybe we can work it out because you now let me know there is a Friday night performance. And I did figure it was a three hour drive between those two schools (THAT much I did look at before scheduling both auditions back to back on one weekend). Thanks so much for your helpfulness.
Susan

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 12:35 am: Edit

Met someone who because they are a legacy (BFA legacy) at college X thinks that college X BFA program is a sure thing. Does legacy status matter here?

By Camother (Camother) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:28 am: Edit

I found this discussion after my d was admitted to CAP21 by ED- have found it very helpful even after the fact. I miss her alot and it is a comfort to be reassured that she is- for her- in the right place. Some comments: when she auditioned (NOV12) the evaluators (or whatever) spent a fair amount of time discussing the various studios at Tisch- I don't think it is necessary to be expert in these prior to interview except to defend one's choice. They all sounded fabulous to me and I was annoyed when my daughter said she only wanted CAP. In terms of warming up: after the dance audition and after the evaluator talk everyone seemed to be able to find a corner to warm up in.

After all it took to get my d to the point of being student at NYU I was horrified that we forgot about the parent orientation at Tisch- we were at a play thinking orientation was only for students. Think I got confused as the move in day was changed. If any one was there and picked up any info I should have, please respond.

By Mtjack (Mtjack) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Lynnm

My d is coming home soon for the first time and I will post any additional info that I can pry out of her.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Jrmom, entry to these BFA programs is never a sure thing, legacy or not. Like other programs, legacy importance, or lack of same, will vary according to the college. I have never heard of legacy having any importance in the top BFA programs. Where an audition is required, it becomes very difficult to give a student a 'boost' simply for having a parent or grandparent who attended. During the parent/applicant information discussion on audition day at Tisch, someone asked if legacy provided any advantage and the auditors indicated that legacy has very little influence at NYU in ANY college, but none at Tisch.

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Jrmom, I agree with Alwaysamom - at most schools, I would plan on legacy status having little or no importance. It could possibly be a tie-breaker if it gets down to the last slot - 2 kids who are about a tossup; other than that, it's sure not gonna trump the audition. Ask an acquaintance of mine who was not only a legacy at one of the "Ivies", but a MAJOR contributor, and whose child is attending elsewhere!

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Alwaysamom and Theatrbroad,
Thanks for chiming in. That is the way it should be, in my opinion. I'm glad at least 2 people think that's the way it is!

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 07:15 pm: Edit

LAURENZ, HEARING THAT YOUR SON IS HAPPY THERE IS A GOOD START, AS FAR AS HEARING INFO ON EMERSON. DID HE LIVE ON CAMPUS LAST YEAR BEFORE GOING OFF TO THE NETHERLANDS THIS YEAR? FUNNY, BY OLDER D IS PROBABLY GOING TO THE NETHERLANDS NEXT YEAR FOR A FOREIGN EXCHANGE EXPERIENCE.

SOOZ - SORRY IT TOOK A FEW DAYS TO GET BACK TO YOU RE THE EMERSON APP BUT I SEE MARISSAL ALREADY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. MAYBE WE'LL SEE YOU THERE ON THE 5TH.