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I am an international student.. and I want to choose two colleges out of those four. Which one provides better education (especially for economics but I will also do double major with psychology). Thanks..

By Mini (Mini) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 10:58 am: Edit

There isn't a single person on this or any list that has gone to all four of them, so they will have no personal basis for comparison. Vanderbilt is a much larger school than the others. The vast majority of posters look at schools either in the east (like Wesleyan) or the west, and will have even less experience of Carleton or Kenyon.

The reality is that they are all good schools. The 3 are drawing on the same pool of students, and the same pool of faculty. They are all selective.

I would definitely try to find something besides pure academics to choose among them.

By Ledyana (Ledyana) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 11:22 am: Edit

I have read the Fisk guide.. and I still do not know which one to choose Wesleyan - more frats and sorrority (which I dont like.. but they have fin aid for international student especially for Asian).. Kenyon - gives special attention to each student, Carleton n Vanderbilt - has a very strong economics program

By Piglette (Piglette) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Carleton is definitely a cut above Kenyon in academics. That said, Kenyon is a fine school.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Ledyana - You would get good individual attention at all three of the liberal arts schools on your list - Wesleyan, Carleton and Kenyon.

Note that Carleton is not a "cut above" Kenyon in academics. Carleton's students do have better high school records than Kenyon's, and I would give it an edge in math and the sciences. But each of your small college options has departments that may be stronger and/or larger than those at the other two, and for most of the departments differences are not that significant.

You should prioritize a list of your college needs (majors, financial aid) and wants (school size, class sizes, social issues, geographical location, student clubs etc.) and then re-read the Fiske guide (and other resources) with that list of criteria in mind. And keep in mind that academically you have four excellent schools on your list.

By Ledyana (Ledyana) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

how bout for economics? i search in the ruggs recommendation and all four are very strong in economics.. but only kenyon and wesleyan are also good in psychology.. Which one is harder to get into vanderbilt, carleton, or Wesleyan? (is case western reserve uni also good?)

By Mini (Mini) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 09:27 pm: Edit

There is no basis for giving any of the 3 liberal arts colleges an edge in any of the subjects you posted. (now if it was ethnomusicology, that would be something totally different.) But they are drawing on the same pool of students and the same faculty pool, and 80% of the courses are going to be the same. Each school will have an occasional poor teacher and an occasional superstar, and lots in between.

Vanderbilt will, generally speaking, be the easiest to get in.

What country are you coming from? Wesleyan will put you on the east coast, in easy reach of Boston and NYC, if that matters to you. The others won't. (It it were me, this would make MUCH more difference than the differences among the departments.)

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 10:29 pm: Edit

I agree with Mini that for your academic interests, differences among the three LACs will be negligible.

As for selectivity, I'd rate Wesleyan and Carleton about equal, and Vanderbilt and Kenyon about equal, with the latter pair easier to get into. Along with location, consider the size of these schools, their social and political climates, and things like core and graduation requirements.

By Ledyana (Ledyana) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 02:20 am: Edit

I come from Indonesia.. hm.. I dont really care about the location since I am not the outgoing type.. and I never visit the university either so I cannot know which one fits me the most. All the information I gathered is based on this forum or fiske guide or princeton review.. I really appreciate the help so is it better to choose each between Wesleyan / Carleton and Vanderbilt / Kenyon?

By Bettina (Bettina) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 08:00 am: Edit

1) It does not make sense to pick between any of these for a better education, as people are trying to tell you. Please listen and re-read the above comments. You have already been told that these all are highly regarded (and similar in your interest areas.)

2) It is not better for anyone to choose for you, it is only best for you to try to gauge for yourself. You cannot visit, so you can't figure for yourself how well you respond personally to the school's atmosphere. That's the case with many US people too. Check the individual boards here for each school and try to get a feeling which you'd be happiest at. So you don't care where you are because you are not outgoing? What about schools that you find like minded souls at? Do you never want this to happen?

I'm not sure all schools allow double major, so you might want to contact them.

3) My own impression, and if my dd were to choose from these, the order would be Wes, Carl, Kenyon, Vandy. For my own subjective reasons (and only Wes is on her short list)--

--Wesleyan is very funky and individualistic in it's student body. There is a good strong interest in politics. People can be freaks if they want to, or not. It's a little larger for an LAC. Academics are stellar, good science dept, they have strong film dept so opp to take some classes. Very solid, decent aid offered. I'm very surprised you think frats are a sig presence here, I don't think so. Also, it is easy to visit NYC and Boston.


--I have heard Carleton is very good if you want to be super academic with lots of nat'l merit scholars to compete with. They are building a stellar rep. Last year a kid from our school turned down Harvard and went here. It is very remote and cold. Don't know anything else.

--Kenyon is known for it's writing dept to me, but I think a very good school allvover. It's in the middle of farmland. Several alumni of our school who are intellectual types and writers, but didn't get the best grades in High School are very happy here.

--Vanderbilt, don't know anything about this one, sorry; notice people speak well of it here, but it does not have regional name rec to laypersons in Calif., and we are not looking in that area.

But why not apply to all of them if they caught your interest? You're not assured of entrance to any, plus aid, so apply and then decide.

By Garland (Garland) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 11:27 am: Edit

I agree with Bettina's insights on Wes (my D just graduated from there.) Fraternities are a tiny part of the campus which on the whole does not have much contact with them. Unless you're in one, they're a nonfactor. On the whole, students are very individualistic. Whatever they are into, they're passionate about it. Last year, I heard their econ dept had been rated one of th highest in the country for LACs. Don't know the exact rank.

Carleton was one my S was considering. I think it's similar to Wes, with a bit more laidback midWEstern feel. Kenyon seems also like that, with, as said above, maybe not as good sciences as the first two, but extremely good English/creative writing.

Vanderbilt is definitely the oddball inthis group. Much larger, tends to attract a different demographic. I'd be surprised if it's applicant pool overlaps much with the others.

By Enzom (Enzom) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 11:53 am: Edit

I can only comment on Kenyon from personal experience. Having said that, I think ANY of the four schools will provide an outstanding education. I do know that both the economics department and the psychology dept. at Kenyon are well respected by students and are both considered quite strong. As far as sciences are concerned, Kenyon has built a new $35 million addition to their labs and teaching facilities. I do know that their record of medical school acceptance is excellent, with greater than 90% of students who apply with a 3.2 GPA or better gaining admission to medical school. Their rate of acceptance to law school and business schools is nearly 100%>

By Garland (Garland) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:11 pm: Edit

I defer to your better knowledge about their science program, esp. in the light of the expansion you mention.

As a generality, though, I'm more thinking about academic grad school prep when I talk about strong science programs, since the sciences necessary for med school are basic ones which should be adequately covered in any good school. Many premedies get those out of the way, then major in something else. So I think med school acceptance tells you overall that it's a good school, but doesn't really tell you about the science departments.

By Ledyana (Ledyana) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Ok thank you all for the help.. im going to search whether they provide double major or not and then I will choose again. Thanks.