Click here to go to the NEW College Discussion Forum

I've been running on high school cross country for about 2years, im a pretty good runner win a bunch of metals in such but not one of the top in state. So if I want to go to a D-1 school, do they have like a jv team or something till you reach the level of a D-1 runner?

By Looking1 (Looking1) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 02:12 pm: Edit

unless you are a top athlete, you might consider div 3. D 1 athletics are very competitive, and are not for everybody. There are only a small number of athletes each year that can enter the program as a freshman. So usually its the top in the state, or at least very top in your high school. Also many d3 programs are better than some d1 so you should check them out.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Talk to your coach. Also research where the runners in your area, not just your school who are at your times at your courses are going to school. If no one has been a XC prospect in the past few years, it may not be a realistic goal to go D-1. Still, check with those colleges you like and see where you would fall. Schools with a strong coach welcome athletes even if they are not at the level where they are competitive. The willingness to join the team and make the commitment can be a very important element in sports.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Talk to your coach. Also research where the runners in your area, not just your school who are at your times at your courses are going to school. If no one has been a XC prospect in the past few years, it may not be a realistic goal to go D-1. Still, check with those colleges you like and see where you would fall. Schools with a strong coach welcome athletes even if they are not at the level where they are competitive. The willingness to join the team and make the commitment can be a very important element in sports.

By Joev (Joev) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 05:34 pm: Edit

If you have to even ask this question, you already know the answer.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Not necessarily, Joev. Many sports that are not high impact at colleges do not recruit. Many highschools do not put any time in athletic recruitment for their athletes. My son was a Division 1 ability level athlete, and his college counselor at his high school was totally oblivious. He did not know the coach, knew nothing about options available in the sport. So it is entirely possible to be good enough to play D-1 in a sport like cross country where the times are not standardized, and not know for sure.

D-1 is a wider range than many people believe. There are the top D-1 schools where you have to be VERY good to be recruited or even make the team, but there are D1 schools that do not emphasize a given sport, but the coaches are happy to take someone able to participate. Soem D-1 schools are less intense in some sports than D-3 schools who have a strong tradition or emphasis in the sport. Swimming at Kenyon is an example. D-3 but top of the heap and more intense than many D-1 schools in this sport.

My son could have run cross country at a number of D-1 schools, nearly any D-3 school had he chosen to do so. It was a secondary sport for him and he did no research in that subject as he was being recruited in his primary sport. Had he not had the primary sport, WE would have had to do some legwork (no pun intended) for crosscountry to be a factor in his profile.

By Dcmom3 (Dcmom3) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Jamimom
You seem very knowledgable about this so I have to ask my question: doesn't the NCAA have mandated maximum hours per week for D1 vs. D3 sports? I emailed the NCAA about this and got a very evasive answer. I know that schools can set their own limits, perhaps less than what the NCAA sets as a maximum. But if there is no maximum, what's to stop a big football powerhouse from requiring 80 hours a week of practices.

For example, Bucknell's (D1) website says 20 hours/week during the season and 8 hours/week in the off-season. But my guess is that many D1 programs require a lot more.

My daughter wants to play basketball at a small D1 or competitive D3 program and is trying to determine where she would best fit. It seems like it's difficult to get colleges to be upfront about this (which is why I was so impressed with Bucknell's clarity.) You mentioned Kenyon for swimming--isn't the D3 limit up to 30 hours/week during the season? Any light you can shed in this direction? Thanks!

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 10:51 am: Edit

There are limits but there are ways around the limits. So there are no limits. For example, a very easy way around the limits is to form a club team supposedly not related to the college team with additional practices. And make it clear to the players that they must join the team and come to those practices and "games" as well. For example, UMICH swimming also has a very strong club team that is comprised of some Olympic level swimmers. You better believe you join that club team if you want to swim Wolverine college.

Also when I spent a weekend with my son when he had a game on Saturday which did not count as practice time, it took up the entire day. He had to meet with the team for breakfast, bonding, prep talk, inspirational speeches, films,etc. Then boarded the bus for a 1 PM game that took several hours, and this was at a college within an hour's distance. I briefly spoke to him but he had to stay with the team for an early dinner at a steakhouse. We met up at around 6pm and he had not done a lick of school work and he was up at 6am and was at the gym doing pregame stretches and warm up--not counted as practice, supposedly elective but guess what, everyone shows up. Now that is 12 hours right there out of study time. In addition to the 20 hours that is supposedly the limit. And there are "informal" games and discussions sessions that do not count either. If a school is hardcore about the sport the limits mean nothing. If the school and coach are very loose and the sport is not such a big deal to the school, even if it is D-1, there may not be much time required for it. It depends on the intensity of the coaches running the program. Something you have to see and get the inside scoop from those on the team. So forget about the legal limits. They truly mean nothing if there is a hardass coach looking to squeeze everything out of the team.

By Dcmom3 (Dcmom3) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 11:04 am: Edit

Yikes! Thank you for your honesty.

By Kirk (Kirk) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 07:21 pm: Edit

You may also want to go to a real good community college that is great in cc and then work your way to d-1.Just a thought,

By Kinglin2 (Kinglin2) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 07:59 pm: Edit

I don't know about that kirk. The reason I wouldn't want to do that is cause I dont think a college should be chosen based on just a sport. I mean unless your really good, then I think academics should come first.

That's just my 2cents.

By Looking1 (Looking1) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 02:45 pm: Edit

YOu should not pick a school based solely on your sport. And the intensity level of d1 is greater than at d3. (for many sports) At the d1 level, from my experience with my son. the coaches are willing to meet with you and talk with you. If you are at the colleges level. They will tell you about practice times and commitment. D3 on the ohter hand has less hours of practice and play. D1 may offer more support to the athelete (tutors/ study halls...extra help) YOu should visit sschools and when you know which school you like get in touch with the coach. If the athletic match is good. they usually are very happy to speak with you

By 3togo (3togo) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 09:17 am: Edit

The NCAA web-site (http://www2.ncaa.org) outlines the differences between the divisions (scholarships, recruiting seasons, # of coaches, # of hours of practice, etc).

As mentioned the range of talent and commitment can range greatly from school to school or sport to sport even within DI. Some sports, like basketball, tend to limit the number of kids due to limitations on running a practice while some schools let extra kids participate in some sports even if they never get into a game/event (I was a track guy and having extra runners doesn't mess up track practices anything like it would a basketball practice). I believe with the advent of freshman eligibility that the JV and freshman teams of the past are pretty much gone ... so you need to find a varsity program on which you can participate.

If you were a DI caliber athlete (in the main stream sports) you would probably know by now because you would have been recriuted (or at least contacted) by some DI programs. I would think to have a good shot at being a walk-on at D1 school with limited spots you would need to have been recriuted at DII or DIII schools. Again, if a sport has unlmited spots or is a minor sport you may catch a break.

DIII on the other hand is a great opportunity to possibly continue playing your sport in a very high level of competition.

My suggestion would be to move away from this general conversation and try to get more specific. Talk to your HS coach and contact the coaches at a couple schools in which you are interested and learn from the experts.

By Dcmom3 (Dcmom3) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:45 am: Edit

3togo,
Can you direct me to where on the ncaa website it outlines the information about # of hours of practice in the various divisions? I have been looking at it, have emailed the NCAA asking where to find it (and was given the brush off.) The new NCAA website moves you back and forth to the old website when you want certain info so it's somewhat confusing where to find things. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

By 3togo (3togo) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Hmm, it was last spring when I checked this stuff out and it was on the old site ... last spring I spent a night trying as many as the links possible so I do not remember the particular route.

I just did some checking now and this link ( http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership_svcs/eligibility-recruiting/index.html ) picks up the differences betweent the divisions (at a high level) and recruiting). This is a guide for HS kids ( http://www.ncaa.org/library/general/cbsa/2004-05/2004-05_cbsa.pdf ) and here is a DI school membership manual (this has the practices and I believe coaches etc) ( http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2004-05/2004-05_d1_manual.pdf )

By Dcmom3 (Dcmom3) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 02:27 pm: Edit

Thank you! Thank you!

By 3togo (3togo) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 07:34 am: Edit

No problem ... if I redid my college search ,knowning what I know now, checking out LACs and their DIII cross-country and track programs would be the one thing I would add to my search ... so I've checked into this stuff in case my kids are interested in college sports.