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Part 27

Before posting, please take a look at the FAQ, as it gives a brief summary of some of the topics that come up a lot on this thread, the big list of schools, and help for searching for a particular topic within the thread.

FAQ

See also Theatre/Drama Colleges for lots of information on straight theatre programs. I'll bring it back to life with a new thread if interest picks up and newbies show up with more new questions.

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Thesbohemian--I like your criteria. What schools have you selected? If you've previously posted just tell me what Part and I'll go searching. I think my D is interested in more courses outside the conservatory program than you are, but she hopes the AP will cover most of the boring GE so she can take some interesting literature courses. Being treated decently seems like the minimum to expect.

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 09:18 pm: Edit

Fosselover,
I'll be going for straight theatre, but my "middle four" schools that meet all or most of my criteria are Southern Methodist University, Florida State University, University of Evansville, and University of Miami. My theatre safety is Catawba College and my reaches are Juilliard and North Carolina School of the Arts. Of those, Florida State, Miami, and Catawba have MT programs.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 09:50 pm: Edit

Fosselover--My D spent a lot of time checking into SMU because of the strength of their theatre dept., as well as good music and dance. They don't have an MT program, but she was assured she could piece it together. The only problem we can see so far could be big: when asked if they allow students to do shows outside of school (meaning musicals in Dallas), D was told her first priority is campus shows; she has to run others by school and get permission. If she's cast on campus, that comes first. So it would be possible to get locked into doing all "straight drama" shows, and not be able to perform musicals for four years (except summer, of course). SMU rarely does musicals. On a positive note, they are really nice there! But it does take a lot of work to weed through everything you need to find out about these programs.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Hey everyone! You have all been so helpful, particularly those of you who have already been through this process (that really nobody else would understand who does regular college admissions) and have been kind enough to still stick around and help those of us now in the process. So, I want to share with those of you who are selecting/applying to schools, our comprehensive visit the past few days at UMichigan for Musical Theater. As many of the regulars know, I have a daughter applying this fall to BFA programs in musical theater. I have been on this forum for over two years now, having another daughter who just began freshman year (though not in MT). The one applying for a BFA will be graduating high school a year early. Due to that decision, we had not visited most of her schools last year which I would ideally like to do by the end of the junior year (she was a soph though). Her list of schools was made up six months ago and it has not changed other than she took CCM off her original list as she chose to not go to a school with the type of cut program they have, even if she enjoys intense training. So, her list is comprised of 8 schools, and she chose to not go out west or to the south. She is now interested in BFA programs that value the liberal arts component as well, while offering conservatory training. She has friends attending most of the programs she will apply to so gets some first hand accounts, which helps. Her list of schools is: NYU/Tisch/Cap21, UMichigan, Carnegie Mellon, Emerson, Penn State, Syracuse, Boston Conservatory, and Ithaca. For years, she has wanted to attend NYU/Tisch, and has been influenced by many friends in their studio programs. She has many friends older than herself, from her summer theater program. So, she entered this process having, what I refer to as "Tisch on the brain". It was like no other school could come close and she knew what she wanted. She talked of applying ED to Tisch, will only accept Cap21. We did a great visit last March (sorry I never wrote that one up for you guys as promised) but that one included an overnight in the dorm with a friend, the regular info. session/tour of NYU, an info. session for Tisch students at Tisch, a one on one consultation with a CAP21 student, and observing two dance classes at Cap that her friend was in as a soph. She also has confered with numerous friends in the program. She did research her other schools and opened up to the idea that she really should learn about them all in depth. I thought we would visit them all this fall but due to time constraints with missing school and rehearsals for an adult production she is in now, we will only visit three more schools this fall and then wait until auditions to return to these four, plus the other four we will have never seen yet. Even that is going to be a LOT in one year. Her other top choice is UMichigan and we decided that we would go to see UMichigan early this fall so that she will have seen one other favorite before making a commitment to apply early to NYU. That was the objective for this visit.

In a nutshell, she has found that she loves UMichigan as much as NYU at the moment (realizing that they differ in various ways) and that she cannot decide yet enough to commit, though would love to attend either school but will leave the options open during the year and is not going to do ED and will just audition at them all. We are visiting Emerson and Boston Conservatory next month as they are the closest to us (we live in VT) and it is enroute to parent weekend at my other D's school, Brown.

So, I will share about this visit, which by the way, was the longest college visit I have ever done, only because of the airfare as we had to stay a Saturday night so we were there from Sat. to Mon. for 2 1/2 days! Let me tell ya, we have SEEN UMichigan! And tons of blue and gold shirts! We had gorgeous weather too the entire time.

My daughter got to spend the night with a friend whom she knows from her summer theater program who is in her second year in the program. She went out that night to a party where many of the theater students attended and she got to talk informally with numerous kids about specifics about the program. She actually knew a boy there from her theater program as well. Two kids in the program had gone to the summer performing arts program that my other daughter attended, one of whom said he was in a show with my older one. It was a great opportunity to hear first hand about the program and the kids in it.

On Sunday, since nothing formal was set up, we explored the entire campus, as well as the North Campus where the Music School is. We visited the Music School, dance building, theater departments, and so forth. We also explored downtown Ann Arbor and the areas surrounding the campus. We ate in several restaurants. The downtown of Ann Arbor reminded us of Burlington, VT a bit. Not as exciting as NYC but there were fun things in walking distance. We ate in the cafeteria where a girl from Arkansas came up to to my daughter (who lives in VT) and recognized her from her summer program, so it is small world.

On Monday, we did the info session and tour for all of UMichigan, even though we had already walked the entire huge campus. It still was informative. (I have walked soooo much the past few days!) They showed a "sample" dorm room. Then at the Music School, my daughter had an appointment with the admissions counselor who spoke in detail about the specifics of the MT program. It would take a long time to give all those details but if you have a question, I may be able to answer it. She was really great and explained a lot. Last year, they invited (after both university and Music School academic review which must meet certain standards) over 300 kids to audition. They accepted 10 boys for 10 slots (all accepted, which is saying a lot about their yield/reputation) and accepted 12 girls for 10 slots, so ten accepted. As you can see, the odds are difficult at this well respected program. There is a balance between dance, private voice, and acting all four years. Starting second semester of first year, all students are required to audition for mainstage shows. But there are many other performing opportunities both big and small for students, including student run musicals. My daughter actually hae created/directed a musical last year and will be again this year so those opportunities at UM are appealing. Kids may even join in jazz or dance groups, if interested, which is also appealing to my child as she is involved in both those areas related to MT. As well, everyone learns music theory and piano (which I agree are important related skills) and some kids place out of this from experience (which is part of the audition) and may be the case with my own D who has an extensive piano and music theory background. The linkage or significance of music background in UM's program is a plus for a kids who has been involved in music her whole life. not essential but an appealing difference between t his program and some others. Each program, of course, has its positive qualities. Required liberal arts courses for these students involve writing, history, and foreign language, though you can place out of foreign language (which she felt might be likely for someone like my D who takes French V) so those of you who have gone far in a language might be able to place out and either continue at a higher level or choose other electives in the curriculum. Kids take a liberal arts course every semester while at UM. My D spoke to some girls who have a dance background like she does who opt to take more dance classes in the dance department and such. Ballet classes and tap have levels in the MT department based on audition. Private voice is every year, as well as acting classes.

Then my daughter had arranged to observe a soph class on Musical Theater Performance. While UMich is a huge school, those in the MT program take about 75% of their courses in that program and thus are with a small group in the majority of their classes and sort of belong to a niche of "friends" or peer group. My daughter walked into class and already kids she had met at the party over the weekend were greeting her. Very friendly kids! This class was great. They were basically getting coached individually (though in front of the group...lots to learn by observing) on acting their own song. Kids and professor made suggestions of acting the song and then the student would redo and revise and it was a great process. There was a music director who also gave feedback and who played piano (I think he plays at the auditions). Great faculty that day. It was a talented group of students who were very engaged in the process.

When it was over, she was invited to join what is called "Lab" which is held every Monday afternoon for MT students. I guess various things take place each week during that time, sometimes a speaker. This was held in a rehearsal room at the Power Center (large modern performing arts complex). It was wonderful to have a chance to do this. I saw it too. Most of the MT students, or at least all the first, second, and third year ones, were there. So, I was thinking of Mtheatermom (I hope I get the posting name correct as I mix the ones up that are similar)'s daughter must have been in the room with us but I don't know which girl she was. She may have even been at the party my D attended. Anyway, she will tell you about this I bet. The speaker was a woman who is visiting this fall to direct and choreograph their mainstage production of A Chorus Line. She was in both the Broadway and National Tour casts of A Chorus Line for many years, as well as other Bdway and tour casts. The lab was run by Brent Wagner, the head of MT at UM. A boy we had met there introduced my daughter to Brent and that was very nice of him. Mr. Wagner ran the session like a talk show of sorts, asking this actress/dancer/choreographer/director all about her experiences being in these shows. She spoke of working with Fosse, Michael Bennett, Tommy Tune, and others and it was fascinating to hear her first hand accounts. By the way, she used to teach at Cap21.

The students at UMichigan were certainly into their program and it was apparent for most of them, that it was their first choice.

As with any program, one has to evaluate it for themselves. While one kid might like one program, another might not.

I am glad my D got a close look thus far at both Cap21 and UMichigan, and hopefully will at her other schools. These two schools appeal greatly to her for a variety of reasons, though they differ in some respects. Each has its positive points. I think it is best to like a few places, rather than be so in love with just one place because then you can be happy where you get in most likely, rather than be set up for disappointment if it HAS to be one certain school. I think my D's look has been widened though she still knows what she likes. I must say that UMich's program appears to be as worthy of its very fine reputation. There are several schools where this can be said of course. I recall sitting in my D's NYC agent's office once a year ago on a visit to the city and my daughter mentioned that she was looking at BFA programs with a plan to graduate early and where she was looking (with a strong interest in Tisch) and so forth. Her agent commented that at the present time, she really likes what she is seeing coming out of UMichigan's program (agents attend the showcases) and now after much research, I can see some of the reasons why the program has garnered a fine reputation among several other very fine programs. Luckily there are many good programs and each has its strengths and certain kids will find where they best fit (once they get accepted of course). Some of this deciding which school ya like best might become a moot point come spring when it will depend on where you get in.

I learned way more details about UM's program but this is long enough. If I can answer a question, I can try. Obviously Mtheatermom knows more having a child already in the program.

Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:20 am: Edit

Hi Susan,

I'm the one with the D in the MT program at Michigan, not Mtheatermom. I was looking forward to your post about your experience at UM this weekend. From what I know, it sounds as though you got a thorough look-see and an accurate impression of the program.

I'm planning to post my impressions of my D's experiences in the program in a few more weeks. I want her to get a few more weeks under her belt and we will actually be travelling out there on the weekend of October 15-17 to visit her and see Chorus Line. The short story at this point is that she seems blissfully happy. She's working very hard but on all the things she is passionate about. I'm sure she was in the Monday lab and I know she was at the Saturday party (it even had a theme - they were to come dressed as they remember dressing in Middle School - EVERY occasion is an opportunity for theatre!!!) If your D talked to students who are taking more advanced dance classes, my D could have been one of them. She is dancing five days a week in two different ballet classes.

I'm glad you were able to feel how friendly and inclusive these kids are. We sensed that on my D's visit last fall and also during her January audition. It's absolutely true.

Only one slight correction - There are 14 boys and 10 girls in this year's freshman class. If you or your D have any questions now that you've seen the program and the campus, feel free to email me (my email is listed in my profile).

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 01:40 am: Edit

Theatermom, glad you read my "report". I am sorry on the posting name mix up. I was too lazy to go back to old threads and find the right "mom" posting name. I get a few of your posting names mixed up as they are similar, though when you post, I know who is who most of the time!

Yep, my D was at that very party and told me that a few kids she spoke with were freshmen. And yes, she did speak to some kids who do a lot of dance as she would also hope to do, since she has for years and years. I knew about the theme of the party, yeah. Your D may well have spoken to mine. My D arrived, I think, with some second year students. Your D might remember her, as she was not dressed up for the theme. I am sure I was sitting in the same room with your D for the lab and kept thinking, I wish I knew who your D was to say hi to. As far as the numbers of kids in the class, it is funny but I was just quoting what the admissions counselor said. In any case, we all know how competitive those figures are and how great it is that your D was among them. It was clear from the class we observed that the kids are very talented. My daughter loves the kind of atmosphere that creates when there are kids very passionate about theater and into the process. I could see my D being thrilled to be a part of such a group in college. It was clear that the small group bonded together, which is akin to what my daughter has experienced in her summers at her theater program which she is sorely going to miss but I can see already that it will be replaced by the same kind of intensity and bonding (likely even better, if that is possible) in a college MT program with similar type kids. My daughter even felt like she already was making friends in these couple of days, that is how much they shared their camaraderie.

My D was glad to hear there were levels of dance for placement because obviously some kids enter with way less dance training than others, but they really do accommodate for this sort of thing.

You can ask your D if she met mine at the party. She'd have been the only high schooler there. Well, she'll be back for auditions, or at least we hope she gets that far. She has been working on the application, and hopes to get it in soon. She'd love to get to audition in January.

Thanks for your helpfulness right along. Right now, my D does not have many questions after talking to so many different kids quite a lot, as well as the admissions counselor and all the rest. My daughter also loved NYU after that visit, and who knows if this would be the reaction after each school's visit (not a bad thing as it makes sense to like more than one place given the odds with these programs), but overall, these schools have a few things in common (some not) and those elements are ones she'd be happy with.

So much ahead of course. I really look forward to hearing how your D likes everything so far, as time goes on.

A funny tidbit was that my D stayed in a sorority house Saturday night (though does not think she'd want to be in one herself) and I had to pick her up there Sunday morning as they were about to host freshmen for a rush event and it was all decorated in a theme....a SKI theme, which cracked me up given that we live in a ski resort. And what I saw of Michigan was very FLAT. One girl had a racing suit on and I had to do a double take that I was at the right school because it is my OTHER daughter who is going to be on the varsity ski racing team at her college!

Susan

By Mezzomom (Mezzomom) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 09:12 am: Edit

Susan: I thought of you often this weekend and was glad that our fickle Michigan weather was on its best behavior.

LOL about the flatness of Michigan; my husband, originally from Washington State, calls the speed bumps in parking lots "Michigan mountains."

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Mezzomom, the weather was certainly gorgeous. My daughter did remark that she knew it would be different in winter trekking far in the cold/snow, but of course we live in Vermont and are used to cold/snow, though we drive everywhere, not walk.

When I said it was flat, it reminded me of where I grew up which is in South Jersey which is very flat. But it is a big contrast to where I live now as I live right in the mountains. Then again, if my D were to end up in NYC, the contrast is far far greater.

It was a good visit and I am glad we went. I think the visit accomplished a lot. I am grateful that my D has had the chance to talk first hand with many students in the programs she visited as that adds another dimension from what you hear in a talk or read in a brochure.

I had never been to Michigan before though I have driven across the country. I'm pretty much an east coast person. But the time it took to fly to Detroit was actually shorter than it takes to drive to my other D's college, Brown. So, it would not be too bad in that respect. But I get the feeling that it will be about which schools pick her, than vice versa given the selectivity involved.

Susan

By Camge (Camge) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Alwaysamom, I just wanted to drop in and let you know how similar your D's experience is at NYU as has been my sons. It's hard to believe but he will be graduating at the end of this year finishing in 3 instead of four. He has had a fabulous time at playwrights horizons, and has really managed to do everything that he ho;pped for. Although he is an acting directing major, he has had dance classes and has managed to have leads in a number of Gap shows, and choral ensembles. Many of his friends are Cap students, that he knew from Fench woods festival of Preforming Arts, or ones that he has met through the Gap shows. I think the best part of being at NYU Tisch is all of the contacts he has made. I worry about what he will be doing next Year at this time, but am happy that he has made many friends who are working in the business. My #2 S, is a HS. Jr. and is wavering wildly, One day it's Musical Theater, the next it's film and tomorrow it will be sound production. Musical Theater is looking up, as he signed himself up for a Jazz dance class because he wanted to work on his dance skills. It is very hard for him, following in the footsteps of a very successful and talented brother. If anyone has any tips on how to handle this sibling theater thing I'd love to know. His schools are all over the map, and it is really hard to pin him down to a program.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Camge, sounds great about your son finishing up at Playwrights. I did not know you had a child who had gone to French Woods. My oldest child who is now 18 went there for four summers and did many musicals there, though is not going to college for that (is at Brown, first year). I bet I have seen your son on stage at some point, having seen numerous FWF productions over the years.

This past weekend, when my younger D, who goes to Stagedoor Manor in summers, visited UMich for MT, she ran into some FWF kids (as well as Stagedoor ones) and in fact, realized she had seen one of the FWF girls on stage when we had gone to see our other D's show weekends. And then she met a FWF male student who said he was in a musical with my older D. And for that matter, at Brown, my older one has run into kids in theater there who went to Stagedoor with my younger D. Sometimes, though we go miles here and there, the world seems small.

Susan

By Catherdingmom (Catherdingmom) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 10:00 am: Edit

Thesbo, somehow I missed your reply to me in the Theatre/Drama thread in the archives. I'm glad you brought up SMU. He does not fit the typical SMU student mentioned in Princeton Review, but if the theatre kids are a more diverse lot (and they always are, aren't they?) then it may be a good one for him to investigate further. In fact, you had lots of good ideas. Shorter College is one that we haven't heard anything about, but we know and like the area (not that far from Atlanta and not that far from Chattanooga) so it could be a possibility!

By Laurenz (Laurenz) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Fosselover,

To answer your question:
Laurenz--Does your S feel academically challenged at Emerson? Are they opportunities to get a strong liberal arts education and excellent MT training?

My S is well challenged academically as he is in the honors program and it is amazing the papers he has had to research and write. There is ample opportunity for liberal arts up until junior year, when MT becomes much more conservatory-like.

He feels the MT training is excellent. There are many acting, and voice lessons, as well as technical training and master classes. Dance is more intensive starting sophomore year; although outside dance classes are taken. Emerson is part of a consortium and dance lessons can also be taken at other colleges and universities in the system. They have guest lecturers and master classes all the time (Edward Albee was there for 3 days). There is ample opportunity to perform, especially in graduate student productions. And of course, the city of Boston is your campus since the school is directly on the Commons.

Right now he is studying at their Castle in Holland. Aside from his academics and MT training for 4 days/wk, he has so far made long weekend trips to Bonn and Koln, Germany; a class trip to Amsterdam, and this weekend he is spending in London. He will also direct a play (for fun) with his cast and crew of friends at the Castle in a 600 year old barn.

Hope this helps.
Lauren

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Laurenz-- Wow, sounds like an excellent opportunity. This is a real help.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Laurenz, I also appreciate your description of your son's experience at Emerson. We are visiting there in a month and my daughter will be applying. She has some friends in that program who like it a lot. It is always great to hear first hand accounts so thank you very much.
Susan

By Overwhelmedmom (Overwhelmedmom) on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Has anybody looked at Muhlenberg's theater program recently? I searched the board and haven't seen anything since 2003.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 10:19 am: Edit

I'm sorry, Overwhelmedmom, I haven't really checked into Muhlenberg.

About U of Michigan and FSU: is the 3rd year of science totally mandatory for an MT major (are they forgiving about this or allow it to be made up in college)? My D isn't taking it this her jr. year, but if she takes it senior year, it makes her schedule limited. There are 6 periods. She'll have:

AP English
gov't/econ
jazz choir
adv. theatre
adv. dance
and then for the 6th period, she either wants to take AP music theory or AP psychology

But if she has to take science she can't take one of those. Any suggestions from those who have been there/done that? UMich and FSU are the schools on her list where the science seem to be a problem. Two more things that go into the decision: 1) she does not test well in science and probably would not get a grade near what she would in music theory or psych or enjoy it as much or find it as useful, and 2) she's had college prep biology and chemistry already.

Thanks for any advice on this issue.

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

You would have to check directly with the school - I would say department AND admissions office - but if HS courses are listed as required, as opposed to "recommended", I doubt if there is any leeway no matter what the major.

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 01:34 pm: Edit

MTmommy--We are going through the same thing with the foreign language requirement and 3rd year science. When I have spoken to admissions, some have been forgiving of the third year science since she took and passed AP chemistry (they view this as the equivalent of 2 yrs and she has a year of bio) and foreign language (can take it in college). But it is varies by school even when it says 'required'. NYU accepted one of my daughters friends with only 1 year of a foreign language. One of the things helping my D is her high SAT and ACT score. It varies by school and the "total package" your daughter presents. My D Sr yr is AP English, AP Economics, IB Drama, IB (pilot) Dance, Musical Theater, Choir and Stage Crew (she takes Music Theory through our voice studio). Talk to people at the schools and get their feedback. Some will be rigid some flexible, the earlier you talk to them the better. Ultimately my daughter decided to take her chances and pursue what interested her. (She is an independant sort).

By Marissal (Marissal) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 04:28 pm: Edit

I would love to have that kind of a senior schedule.

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,
Do they let high school students take community college distance learning courses where you live? Those are usually easy and you can take them at your own pace. If she needs to, she might be able to knock out another science that way. Most schools take them as a transfer, too. I'm taking an Introductory Psychology class like that right now and after one more test, I'll be done.

By Doc021 (Doc021) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 05:20 pm: Edit

It's been a little while since I have been here, Junior year is quite stressful (and hectic). So I decided to use this small window of free time I have to post.

Dr. John,
A rep. from Otterbein is scheduled to come to my high school in October... just wondering what the presentation would be like... and (although I am sure your opinion is biased) is it worth it to go if I will be missing an important class because of it? Also, do you know if your school will be at the National College Fair in Cincy (i think Oct. 30?) and if so, would visiting the Otterbein place there be about the same thing i would get in a presentation at school? Any info. would be appreciated.

A question for anyone who might know concerning admissions. I seem to be struggling in Algebra II this year... math is not my strong suit and my teacher doesn't explain things well and really doesn't seem to care if we don't understand. I realize that Junior year is the most important grade-wise for college admissions, but this class is not going so well. Will one bad grade hurt me that much? I have taken honors courses since my freshman year, and I am currently taking AP American History, along with honors in all of my other subjects. My average cumulative grade is consistantly above 90%. I have not taken the SAT, but I took the PSAT last year and my SAT ranges were predicted at 1150 (for the very lowest) to 1340 as the highest. Considering my actual scores on the PSAT, it would be translated to a 1240. I took this test around this time last year though, before I had a geometry course. These scores also do not reflect the writing portion which had the highest range from 610-750. Any info about my chances of admissions to colleges (in general) would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Fosselover--Wow! That's fantastic about even having MT and stage crew for senior courses. How neat. My D has had to "suffer" to get her schedule as performing arts oriented as it is by taking her foreign language classes at the JC which conflicts with performances, etc. It's just all so time-consuming with no time to rest at all.

Thesbo--She's planning to take her health class online through a University of California program for high schoolers. She could take physics that way, but she's a little wary (and rightfully so) of taking on a difficult class online. Better, she can take honors psychology that way. I like your idea better about college classes because then they count for college courses as well as for high school, but I can't find any online college courses that she can take because the budget in CA is so bad that the online courses are maxed out long before a high school student could ever register. I don't know if there would be something outside of California she could take that the school would approve. That would be best for the science course.

Does anyone know of an online college science course (not bio or chem) anywhere that would be available to a high school student in California?

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Mtmommy--Indiana University has a wide selection of classes. http://scs.indiana.edu/univ/undergradcourses.html

While my D found Health and math easy online, science and foreign language were less so. It is amazing how creative one has to be. She has taken some math at the JC, but never fit in the foreign language. My son did foreign language and math at JC.

Our HS is going through some transitions this year (that is an oxymoron, all HS are) in their performing arts. After 10 years of a wonderful showchoir program, the teacher left. Instead of replacing him with someone who could and would do showchoir, they looked in-house. So we no longer have showchoir. Instead we have choir and MT class. My D decided to do both because she wanted the additional vocal work and loves MT. Her schedule has always been unusual and has driven GC crazy. She does very well in math and science and teachers keep trying to push her in that direction. She continues to take her own road. Much of HS admin thinks I'm nuts to allow her to pursue MT. The attitude is she's so smart she could do anything, like MT doesn't take brains!!!! We laugh and continue on.

Hope the Indiana University link helps.

By Overwhelmedmom (Overwhelmedmom) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit

I'm amazed at the classes your kids' high schools offer. Ours have nothing like that....interesting!

By Artsymom (Artsymom) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Like others here, my D has done her utmost as a senior to turn her large public HS into an arts school. Her schedule consists of AP Lit (which she loves), math (which she at least tolerates this year, as opposed to hating it as usual), a required tech course, photography II, Chamber Singers, Theatre and MT. I can't tell you how happy she is compared to her more academic-heavy years! My H and I are fine with it, figuring that it's a preview of what she wants to do in college and in life.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 10:38 pm: Edit

Fosselover--You are an angel! The Indiana U website is a godsend. I hope the @#%& guidance counselor understands how important this is and lets her take her health, first of all, through there instead of through the UC. The correspondence is much better than the online through UC. They make a student do at least an hour's worth of work each day, M-F. How's that supposed to work when she's in rehesearsals and classes and regular homework? The point is to do it on the weekends. The correspondence method would make that possible. If the health works out, then she could take the psychology course that way--either high school or college, I suppose.

Then there's the issue of music theory. The choir teacher just told me 2 hours ago that they might not offer AP music theory next year and she gave me the reasons. But she might offer a keyboard class instead, which is a good thing. But I see Indiana U has an intro to music theory. I wonder if that would be useful for a potential MT major to take as a high school student???

Thank you so much, Fosselover.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 10:41 pm: Edit

And I forgot to mention the science course. They offer both high school and college science courses, so she could do either--if she has to. I'm sure that will be last on her list lol.

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 02:23 am: Edit

mtmommy--Parents of artists have to stick together. GC don't get it and neither do most teachers. We did Health through BYU high school courses. They satisfied CA certification. This course could also be done on her own schedule. Sometimes I feel as if we are always struggling trying to get the best for the students. I envy those that have actual programs at performing arts high schools. But with a little creativity, we find a way.

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 10:45 am: Edit

Oh, my. An arts h.s. schedule. They can look like this when you're a senior if you're really stupid with your scheduling ...
A.P. Biology
A.P. European History
A.P. Art History
Introductory Psychology (cc distance learning)
Art and the Russian Revolution Research Project/Presentation
Drama Literature
Acting
Voice and Speech
Movement/Dance/Stage Combat
Production (with leading role stress Woot! Woot!)
"Participation in events outside regular class time continues to be a fundamental and required aspect ..."
See why I'm so bent on schools that accept A.P. credit to satisfy GE requirements? I so need a caffeine I.V. by my desk.

By Bdwygal (Bdwygal) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

BYU also offers Earth Science I and II and they both fulfill the one year science requirement. The cost factor is also an incentive since they only charge $96 per course as oppose to approximately $500 for the UC Berkeley courses. BYU's staff are also very helpful to students and will go out of their way to accomodate their needs. Hope this info helps.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Thesbo--Do I count 9 courses, plus 1 cc course equalling 10 courses? Or is production after school? My D's big public high school has 6 periods. That's probably pretty typical. Since there are 5 academic courses students are supposed to take (English, soc sci, science, math, for. language), that leaves exactly one elective per year except for 9th and 10th when PE is required. That's the problem with a public school program for a performing arts student. It takes a lot of planning ahead, starting at the end of 8th grade to make it work to have drama, dance, and choir classes along with the academics. That leaves no room for stage tech, other music courses, or anything else anyone wants like psychology, ASB, etc.

A.P. Art History
Art and the Russian Revolution Research Project/Presentation
Drama Literature
Voice and Speech
Movement/Dance/Stage Combat

None of the above (except dance) are offered at my D's school. Consider yourself blessed to have the opportunity to take these courses. You are going to be so far ahead of the game in college! D's packed up with classes, lessons, rehearsals from 6:30AM until 10PM with 15 min. breaks to get herself between places. (Homework and learning lines squeezed in whenever and then after 10PM).

Thanks to all of you for the leads on opportunities to maximize her h.s. experience. I just found out the @#%&* GC has been replaced with a new one (4th one in 2 years), so I'll print out IU's and BYU's info for him. I thought there had to be schools out there doing this, but the viewpoint out here is so narrowly confined to everything "UC"--the schools barely acknowledge there are colleges outside California.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Alert!

Point Park has a new website (http://www.pointpark.edu), a new policy about the BFA major (you enter as a BA and can apply to the BFA sophomore year) and new requirements for the MT concentration.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Dramatica,

Please let us know how you are faring with Hurricane Jeanne. I hope that your home did not sustain any more damage. I'm thinking about you. Please take care.
Kathy

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,
Yeppers. I’m at school 24/7, so it’s more manageable than it would be otherwise. It would have been a lot smarter to take the equivalent of one of those A.P.s as a cc course in the spring, though. At least it’s all in one place. As it stands, I sometimes wake from a nightmare of the Red Army charging across the steppe with sabers drawn and bayonets affixed to overrun my hopelessly outnumbered GPA whose mental machinegun is out of bullets. Maybe all this will get enough GEs out of the way to leave me time to take some elective Russian language courses if there’s a good professor teaching them at whichever college I end up attending. Chekhov must certainly rock in the original language. There I go again with another one of my bright ideas ...

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Doc021: Sorry for the delay. I've written to the Admissions Office, and I should have an answer for you by Monday night. Thanks.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit

Thesbo--You've got bright ideas flashing all over the place. I wish you were going to be one of my students next year!

By Actor465 (Actor465) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Hi, I'm new to the board, even though I've been reading the posts for the past new months. I think I just joined because I thought of a question which I might ask to people who have gone through this application/audition process before.

How do colleges feel about photocopied music at the auditions? I figured they wouldn't care, but my voice teacher said to me, "Oh! You HAVE to have originals!" I figured someone on this board might have some sort of an idea.

Thanks!

By 5pants (5pants) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Actor465,

Originals? My Ss didn't do that...after all you have to clearly mark the amount of bars required. They used photocopies and after marking inserted them into clear plastic page protectors and placed in a binder. The sleeves make it easier for the accompanist to turn if needed.

Your voice teacher may be assuming this as originals are required for certain competitions.

SUE

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Actor465,

The question about photocopies has come up before on this board. My D and many others, like 5pants' twins, purchased music then photocopied it and inserted the pages in page protectors inside a binder. Many of the MT programs teach students to compile music this way in an audition book. A performer needs to have a range of songs ready to use at an audition at the drop of a hat.

There is one school that I am aware of that does not want students to use photocopies at their audition - Oklahoma City. In their information regarding auditions they state that they do not condone the use of photocopied music. They require the original score. If I were having my D audition at OCU, I would suggest that she take in the original copies of her audition pieces and take her binder with the photocopies and ask the pianist which s/he preferred to use. I have done quite a bit of accopmpanying in my day and I would prefer to use photocopies in a binder. Music in large volumes tends to not want to stay open and page turns are more awkward. Cuts in the music can make the page turn situation even more awkward.

My guess is that if there are other schools that object to photocopies at their auditions they will state that fact in their audition information. Are any of you aware of any schools other than OCU that have a policy against photocopies?

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Actor465

Our experience was the same as 5pants. We photocopied, and even cut and pasted sections of a single song together to get the 16 or 32 bars of music requested at my D's auditions. She auditioned at the following schools (just so you know some schools that had no problem with this)
NYU Steinhardt
Syracuse
Emerson
University of Michigan
Cincinnati Conservatory
Carnegie Mellon

I think I do remember a previous poster stating that Oklahoma City U required students to have originals of any music they used for auditioning. (I assumed that meant they had to bring the originals along even if they sang from a marked or cut and pasted photocopy - this to protect/asssure copyright protection.)

If I have time some time soon, I'll reproduce and post here UMich's guidelines for putting together 16 bar audition material. My D got a copy of this when she observed the upper level MT performance class during her UM visit last fall. I think it's quite helpful.

Another thought - originals are not always possible - especially if you have a song transposed into a different key. I did this last year so that my D could use a favorite song she would ordinarily sing in the higher key as it was writen but show the lower part of her vocal range for an audition. No way to use the original in that instance. Also, many older songs, the pre-1960 variety that are often requested as part of MT auditions are not always still in print. We had to get library originals and copy them on occasion.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 11:53 pm: Edit

I agree with what everyone else says to use photocopies as they are easier to turn the pages, plus any changes in the music. I have only heard of originals being required at competition type events.

Theatermom, I would love to see what UMich wrote as guidelines for putting together 16 bar material. My daughter is finally nearing her song selections for her college auditions (whew). It would be interesting to see what they formally wrote about this topic, though singing parts of songs is not a new thing. Often, however, general musical theater auditions allow more like 32 bars so yeah, 16 is kinda short. UM has one 32 bar song and one 16 bar song, yet stipulates that you can sing for up to 3 min. and these excerpts don't really take up as long as 3 min. but of course the bar count needs to be followed.

Btw, my D was working on all the specific stuff for the School of Music tonight.

Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:47 am: Edit

Okay - here are the 16 Bar guidelines from UMich -it's a bit long but I hope it helps. My thinking is that this info was prepared for the graduating seniors as part of their preparation for professional auditions where a 16 bar call is not uncommon. However, I think much of the information is applicable for 16 bar prep for a college MT audition.
--------------------------------

16-Bar Music Preparation

General Notes:

Choose a section which resolves itself - a complete thought/acting beat. Don't end with a question (lyrically or musically). Finish with strength.

Don't use something obscure (the pianist will have no time to analyze your choice.

Avoid transposition. Have your music written out in the new key - with the new chord symbols.

Avoid difficult keys. Key signatures of four sharps or flats should be the maximum.

Figure out a two measure intro (four measures is too long). Also, shorten the rideout to about two measures.

Do photocopy-art for your 16-bar selections. Do not "X-out" measures or first endings. Cut and paste your music cleanly and correctly - you will receive respect and a better accompaniment for taking the time to do so.

Highlight pertinent information - i.e., non-standard interpretive choices, cesuras, sudden or important dynamic/tempo shifts, etc. Do not highlight normal information the pianist would immediately gravitate to (the key signature, tempo marking, etc.). Use a light-colored highlighter since dark ones tend to obfuscate the writing underneath. Always use a dark lead pencil (#1 preferred) or a black ink pen when writing on xeroxed music - your goal is to make your markings as clear and dark as those on the printed page.

Music preparation:

The interior pages of the music presented to the accompanist must include the following information:

* Title of song (on top of page and clearly legible)
* Composer and lyricist (generally at the right border under the title)
* Tempo marking above the intro - to be safe, write this in English; it is sometimes wise to reinforce the meter of the piece - e.g., "Moderate 4", or "Bright 2" [to distinguish between 4/4 and cut time]
* Key signature and time signature written in all staves in the first measure
* Dynamic marking for the pianist notated in the piano intro between the treble and bass clef staves (use italics)
* Where the intro begins as well as the vocal (use the words "intro" and "vocal" or "voice" to delinieate this, and write this information above the vocal staff)

Other:

Put your name and phone number on the outside of the music - this is the last thing you want your pianist to be studying before the audition.

Assume you will have no time to talk with an audition pianist for a 16 bar call. Your music should be clear, clean and immediately accessible for any pianist at this type of audition.

------------------------------
Good luck everyone!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 11:09 am: Edit

Theatermom, that was extremely thoughtful of you to print out expert advice on a 16 bar cut for auditions and suggestions for preparing the music for the accompaniest. It is always great to read what the "experts" say on these matters. While some of it is not earth shattering new, there is information in there that is detailed and involves expertise in this field. I appreciate your effort to share this handout. I will print it out for my daughter. Thanks for your kindness.

Susan

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 09:11 pm: Edit

doc021:

Our Admissions liaison wrote this morning, "Our presentation at this student's high school will cover general information about Otterbein, the application process, financial aid and scholarships. The college fair will give the student the opportunity to stop by the table and talk with one of us individually. I think the fair will be just as useful as the presentation." So go to class, and come to the fair.

By Theaterfamily (Theaterfamily) on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Actor 465

Theatermom is right about OCU. I asked Dr. Herendeen in person a few days ago while I was up there and he said that yes you may bring 1 photocopy of the music for the accompanist--but make sure and bring the original copy w/you. Professional etiquette dictates that we purchase our music.

By Theaterfamily (Theaterfamily) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 02:07 am: Edit

A VISIT TO OCU--

My D & I attended OCU's centennial celebration as our college visit. I'm glad we did. It was a memorable celebration! But the best part is we were able to hear the orchestra, choir & soloists perform, hear original compositions, see their wonderful Spirit Dancers tap dancing, hear past alumni perform, and much more. Yes, I think this college visit unveiled OCU's remarkable music dept and outstanding dance dept without a doubt! Performance arts are definitely supported at this university, believe me, in a big way.

We attended opening night of "Secret Garden"--very, very nice--but thought personally that the acting was just a tad weak--it was opening night though. I understand this year they are trying to beef up the acting curriculum for MT which I think is a good thing.(I did hear through my brother who works with Mr. Chenowith that they also just lost the very excellent head of their theater dept--but they are working on it.) The show will probably improve after a week--acting & timing more often than not improves w/an audience.

We had an informal talk w/Dr. Herendeen, head of the MT dept & Mary Mowry, head of Student Svcs for the Music Dept---very warm & friendly. We were told that 85% of the students receive some type of scholarship money that usually lasts 4 yrs. Yes, they have juries, but it's more about being prepared for the next level of courses instead of cutting people from the program. They are looking for talented students that can work well with others--and work hard. He's a very energetic, funny, fatherly sort that is not above calling students on the rug when they are not focused--or so he says. Dr. Herendeen says expect to be very, very busy at OCU.

The campus has a no alcohol or drug policy. The campus is small (4,000 students--2,000 undergrads), most buildings border an open grassy thoroughfare.It's a snap to get to class. A brand new business school was just built, they are working on a new dance facility and a state of the art music facility that will rival CCM's (slated to open Spring '06). They are an all Steinway (piano) facility--which is supposed to be a big wow.

We got to see a voice master class. A voice teacher's students were working on pieces and she was critiquing them while we watched--allowing us to get a feel for the student/teacher relationship and the variety of levels students were at. We also caught a music theory teacher talking informally to a small group of students--what really brought home how dedicated these teachers are is hearing this teacher explain a concept carefully & thoroughly & then chide the student for being so hesitant to ask--that she was there to answer all of her questions until she got it. Wow! Wish all teachers were like that--D was very impressed w/all the teachers & the kind & generous spirit that prevailed at OCU.

Our story wouldn't be complete if I didn't mention that the Dean of Music tapped our shoulder during the show and introduced himself--they proceeded to introduce the President of OCU and various benefactors of the university for which different schools are named after--turns out we were seated in their midst. As we were leaving a little old lady knocked on our car window & spoke to us, asking us to please return and that she hoped we would take advantage of this wonderful university's MT program. That turned out to be Ms.Margaret Bass herself for which the music school is named after.As I said--very nice people here. Did I mention that 3 Miss Americas came from this school and endless numbers of Ms. Oklahomas--and the great majority were performance majors of one kind or another.

If y'all have any questions about our OCU visit and audition info, feel free to e-mail and I'll answer what I can.

By Dramatica (Dramatica) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:37 am: Edit

Dancersmom,

Thank you for thinking of us. We are exhausted but fine. Preparing for two storms one right after the other is no easy feat. This is the first time in days that I have been able to “visit” with all of you. My hands are full of cuts and my arms are bruised from all the cleaning of debris but I am thankful that we escaped the worst of the storm.

When it seemed imminent that Jeanne was definitely headed our way, it was a feeling of total despair. Although, we had contracted already for a new roof, since it will not be up for a few weeks, we had no idea what to expect, with more torrential rains and hurricane winds headed our way. Fortunately, the day before the storm hit, the roofing company fixed some of the worst spots, such as where wood was showing, and reassured us that although many tiles were missing and there were numerous leaks, we otherwise had a sound structure over our heads.

As you probably know, the storm mimicked Frances except that it was stronger and faster. We were fortunate to be spared, once again, from the strongest winds. Of course we lost power, but this time we were restored within 2 days, much earlier than expected. (It is amazing how reliant our civilization is on electricity!) We are still under mandatory curfews because emergency personnel are maxed out and helping cities and counties north of us where the devastation is severe.

We had minor damage this time. We have more leaks and lost more screening panels from the pool enclosure. However, we did narrowly miss being hit by a beautiful 45 ft palm tree that began to fall on our house but was stopped and left at a 45 degree angle by flood lights under it. We are hoping to be able to salvage it. So we are very lucky indeed. Well, rest time is up, have to get back to cleaning and arranging for repairs....

I am so thankful that our daughter is only a frehsman in HS. I shudder to think how difficult it would be to deal with the MT admission process and hurricane damage at the same time!

Once again, thanks for your concern.

Dramatica

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:39 am: Edit

Theatermom, Thank you very much for sharing! As said above, this is a really useful piece of information to have and we appreciate the time you took to type it out for us. I too have already cut and pasted it into it's own document and placed in our audition resources notebook. Thanks again.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:25 am: Edit

Dramatica, thinking of you and all that stress. Yikes, am so sorry you had to go through all of this. I guess it could have been worse for you but it still does not sound too pleasant. Good luck getting through the recovery. Let's hope for brighter days (literally and figuratively) ahead. Btw, my D absolutely loves Brown. We will head there for parent weekend.
Susan

By Txmommtpbd (Txmommtpbd) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 01:58 pm: Edit

For any parents or students considering a college or a pre-college program in New York City, I strongly advise you to stay away from renting off-campus apts via a broker. Stay in a college dorm. My adult son just spent almost a month dealing with a broker at Hart Diamond (in fact it was the owner) who totally scammed him. Now we have to go through the NY Dept of State and possibly IRS and he will still lose hundreds of dollars - on a scam! He tells us this goes on all the time with NYC brokers. NYC is a tough city and people there take advantage of those not from it; stay in a dorm! TX Mom

By Doc021 (Doc021) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Thank you very much Dr. John

By Malloryr (Malloryr) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 07:23 pm: Edit

hey guys! i can't believe this thing has added so many threads. i remember how much testimonials helped me find a school on here, so i thought now that i'm finishing up my first semester, i could do the same!

i am starting my final demonstrations this week at The American Musical and Dramatic Academy in NYC. i am SO glad i chose to go to this school. i've been here for about 3 months now (I chose to start in the Summer semester) and do not regret turning down any of the four-year programs. The teachers are absolutely AMAZING, especially my Musical Theatre teacher. they all have done some amazing things professionally, and some still work. the connections are great...they're constantly getting directors and casting directors calling them about previous students that are auditioning for them. the students in my class are unbelievably talented and i've learned so much it's unreal. plus, what better place to be than new york city??? we've seen some incredible performances the past couple of weeks at the New York Musical Theatre Festival.

i wish i could think of more things to tell, but there's so much, i wouldn't even know where to begin. i know alot of people place alot of importance on a college degree, but nevertheless, you should definitely take a look at the school. if anyone has ANY questions at all, i'd be more than happy to talk to you! also, i know auditions for schools are approaching, if not started already, so i have a million suggestions for songs as well.

good luck to everybody in their selection and auditioning processes!!!!!!!!

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Dramatica,

I'm glad to hear that you made it through Hurricane Jeanne relatively well. Perhaps it's a good thing that the roofing company did not complete all the repairs; it sounds like you would have had to have it repaired again. I hope your palm tree makes it. I'm praying that Jeanne is the last storm you'll see.

Maybe this little bit of info will lighten your day. I was poking around on the NOAA site a few days ago and found a list of names that will be used for storms next year. The initials of my D's 1st and last names start with consecutive letters of the alphabet. Wouldn't you know, next year both of her names are hurricane names. I told her that if those 2 develop into big storms, she'll be teased unmercifully at FSU. She may never live it down!

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Dramatica, I hope things are easier for you and your neighbors very soon. What a horrible season this has been for Floridians! Stay safe.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

For any of you who have children in NYC, or the surrounding area, my D just sent me this link to a series of seminars that she and her classmates are encouraged to attend (and get comps for!). I thought I'd post it here just in case it interests any of you.

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/88685.html

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 12:41 pm: Edit

I am so jealous. S. Calif. has great climate, but not great opportunities like this.

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 01:16 pm: Edit

This site has been really helpful. And I have decided that receiving a BFA in MT would not actually be best for me personally. I know that I am very talented, but I can't picture myself touring the country or the world, or in NYC as an actress. At least not at this stage of my life. I am still young, so I am not sure yet exactly what I want to do for the rest of my life. I have several other passions and interests beyond theater, that I do not want to give up in college. Basically, I do not want to limit myself to theater and music only, and be trained in only one thing, something that I am not even sure about how passionate I am about. I do love theater and music and being on stage, but I don't know if I have enough confidence, and if I am strong enough, to deal with the intensity, and the intense rejection of the major theater world. I have also always been more of a singer/musician than an actress, so I think that I need to use college to find myself, and to discover what I will want to be doing as a profession.

My list of colleges has changed as many of the schools were not perfect matches for me beyond musical theater programs. Therefore I plan to attend a small LAC with lots of personal attention, and opportunities to find myself. The LAC should have good arts programs though. For example, I am now looking at Bowdoin, Lawrence, Kenyon, Skidmore, Ohio Wesleyan, Muhlenburg...

Thank you everyone for this wonderful resource. These past three moths I have learned a lot about myself, the reality of a BFA in MT, and I have learned that I am not ready to abandon everything for theater as I am not 100% sure that that is what I want to do with my life.

Now I am looking at potentially double majoring and double minoring (Majors in Vocal Performance or Music, Spanish, minors in Theater, and Latin American Studies.) If I were to study MT at college I would have to abandon my foreign language studies, and any other potential interests.

Thanks everyone. Three months ago I didn't know much about majoring in MT, and now knowing how much it would limit me, personally, I have decided that it is not the best path for me to follow. At least not in this stage of my life.

~ Court

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Courtbroadway--You might want to look at Illinois Wesleyan. They have Hispanic Studies, theater, Spanish, and voice. The size is small and US News gives them a good ranking.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Mallory--I'm glad you're happy with your choice. I certainly see AMDA listed on a lot of playbills! If you get time, can you give us an idea of your schedule and a profile of the students in your classes? What "level" are they at in each discipline? What is the variety like, their backgrounds and training, all that?

Court--It sounds like you really did some soul searching and figured out who you are at this point in your life. When you have all those options and want the freedom to pursue them, it looks like you are making an excellent decision for yourself.

By Stagemomdj (Stagemomdj) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Theaterfamily,

Thanks for the fabulous post on OCU. My D is a sophomore MT major and I can't tell you how much she loves being there. It has been the most wonderful experience for her...and I'm glad you were able to partake in so many aspects of the program while you were there. My D says that you were probably in her masterclass....she said there were 4 visiting students in class that day. She was the last of the singers to perform.

Anyway, if your D decides to audition there or would like any further information (from a student's perspective), I'd be happy to hook my D up with your D.

By Mezzomom (Mezzomom) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Court: I'm so impressed with your introspection and your willingness to share your thoughts. It can be easy to get caught up in the expectations game, both of yourself and that of others, without doing adequate assessment and evaluation. The sort of self-awareness you are displaying is a strength that many of us don't develop until later in life. Please continue to post here and keep us all updated on your journey; I'm sure I won't be the only one rooting for you all the way.

By Wct (Wct) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 04:00 am: Edit

Court-

My niece graduated from Skidmore and loved it there.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Soozievt,
I know that your D is not planning to audition/apply early decision to NYU anymore, but, you might find this interesting...

I was talking with a friend/neighbor who's daughter is going the college MT route this year. The mother called Tisch this past Monday and this is what they told her regarding Early decision and the studio situation:
they told her the student should indicate at the audition which studio she wanted, like CAP 21, and she could even say an alternate studio, if they did not place her in either of those studios than she was under no obligation for the binding early decision agreement...

My daughter was never privy to that information last year. The only info we could get and this was from both the NYU admisions office and the Tisch office was this: "Its a binding contract."

Just thought I'd share that because our scenario last year was so different and did have an impact on how my D did not decide to apply ED...
-Margaret

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 12:33 am: Edit

MTheatremom, It is very sweet of you to think of sharing any information with me, thanks. While I did not know that if you did not get the studio you wanted that you were not held to the binding agreement, it is rather a moot point for my daughter because she was going to do ED where you are allowed to stipulate that you will ONLY take Cap21 and NO other studio (as you can also say in RD though it is not as necessary to say it in that round because if you don't get Cap ,you are not bound to attend in that round). But in the ED round, you CAN say you will only accept Cap which was her plan because she would not attend that school if not in a musical theater studio. So, while it is good to hear that you can back out of ED if not given one of two chosen studios, it would not have mattered if she went with the option I gave regarding saying she would only take Cap.

As far your mention of my D as not applying ED, I had to smile at your post as while that is exactly what she decided upon our return from UMich ten days ago, she had in the past several days begun to oscillate with applying ED to Tisch again; major quandry in her mind , not worth getting into all the reasons, etc. here. She does love both schools a LOT and each has pros in different aspects. She hears influences from many kids she knows in the programs as well as ones applying right now. Several friends who originally were going to do ED to NYU, no longer are doing ED. She is making up her own mind though but she keeps getting mixed up over the issue in regard to ED. I am not sure she is ready to commit but she just wants to be able to apply to NYU without having to make any decision with such finality yet regarding matriculating. We felt she had to decide by tonight regarding ED because starting tomorrow you can call to set up the ED auditions at NYU (best to call as soon as possible) and those are in Nov. and she could not leave town the first two weeks in Nov. due to being in a show so would have had to have an appointment in the second half of Nov. and could not wait til they filled up.

I am exhausted at the moment, plus I don't feel like posting all the confusion over the ED thing though would have loved to have gone over it all with another parent who knows this situation like many of you do. As of tonight, I think she is going RD to her schools. Emerson has EA that is not binding and might help spread out the audition dates. The push has been on the extensive UMich app and it is very close to being ready! There was a lot to do for it, as you know. Her recs were to have been done by yesterday and unfortunately several of her writers "forgot" and so now we are waiting until tomorrow or Monday to hope that part will be done like her app will be. This decision making thing is tough on top of the stress of getting all this college stuff done, audition stuff readied, entering the Arts Awards thing too, and lots of homework, and she has 32 hours of performing arts stuff outside the school per week with an average of 100 miles per day to do it all. I hope we get through it!

Susan

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 07:18 am: Edit

Soozievt,
Good luck with everything. Its all hard work both for you and your daughter going through all this business. Your daughter will be fine no matter what ED/RD route she takes. From reading your posts I can tell she is very talented and that many schools will want her. In the meantime, that probably doesn't help because you both have so much work to do - its unbelievable... good luck with everything.

Thought I'd share a few things about my D's time so far to you and the other parents:
My D is so happy in CAP 21 - she's almost giddy. Here are a few tidbits from her comments:
-She absolutely loves the program and the city. She writes that New York City is her home now (can this be true - its only been 2 months!)
-She says the faculty are so talented and accomplished its unbelievable - the students in her studio are all very accomplished too; many have previously been cast in Broadway productions.
-She says that, "NYC is the heart of the craft!"
-She's been placed in all the top dance classes,however, she says ballet is not challenging enough, but, that at least she is getting the workout.
-For music theory class she's been placed near the bottom, but thats where she needs to be.
-Said something about the voice classes are somewhat mixed up to get different "types" into each group.
-Says Tisch kids works harder than most b/c of studio hours (27 a week) including 9-6 on Fridays, but, thats what she loves, "its so much work, but, its so great to be justifiably exhausted doing work that you absolutely love!"
-Goes to the Met to do "research" on her Art in the World Essay class!
-Has said, "This place is absolutely where I am supposed to be"

-Margaret

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 07:32 am: Edit

Margaret....
Thanks for updating us on your daughter and how well she seems to be doing at NYU. It's nice to see the "after" view when many of us are in the "before" picture. Like Susan, we're suffering from the stressful application process on top of the usual schoolwork, rehearsals for show, NFAA preparation, and performing arts lessons after school. While my daughter is grateful to have added a second voice lesson into the mix this fall to help with audition preparation, it carves another little niche of time out of an already burgeoning schedule. How will we make it through!
But Margaret's information gives me hope that there just might be light at the end of the tunnel! Here's to "seeing the light!"

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Mtheatermom, I feel so dumb as I keep getting the poster names mixed up on here. I should keep a chart by my screen, lol. When you wrote last night I was thinking while reading your post about your D that you are the mom with the freshman daughter at UMich but that is Theatermom. Your names are so similar that I keep confusing them! So, NOW I get it. So, your daughter is at Cap and she got in RD?

I am glad you posted and let us know how she is liking it so far. My daughter also loves Cap and has wanted to go there for years. She still does but she also now loves UMich, and there are some differences among the two. But she much prefers Tisch's location but still loves things about Michigan's program itself. She has friends at both. She has been talking extensively with about five friends at Cap so she has really explored the inside scoop. While she frets that she did not take advantage of the boost that ED gives at Cap, she knows she still can apply and try to get in, as kids do get in RD too, and she just does not want to have to make the decision just yet as to where she will go (and of course, most of it rides on who will take her, so it all could turn out to be a moot point).

Interesting what you said about the dance classes. My daughter does like how at both NYU and Mich, they place you in dance levels as she has a strong background in dance so would not want to be placed with kids who have barely danced before college. Your comment as to how the top ballet class was not that challenging at Cap sort of correlates with a comment that my D had on her visit. She was fortunate to visit two dance classes with a friend who goes to Cap and my daughter commented afterwards that they did not seem that challenging to her.

I enjoyed reading your D's comments because her enthusiasm sounds a lot like my own D's. She would not mind the hard work and long hours (does it now) as she thrives on it. And yes, she would love being in NYC as your D does.

Musicalthtrmom....your D and mine are in the same boat. Crazy fall. I always thought it was hectic before the college stuff came along. Today is a typical day for my daughter. She left at 7:45 for school, then will travel to one city for dance rehearsal for her jazz repertory dance troupe at her dance studio, then to another city for rehearal all night for this adult musical theater production she is cast in, and will get home at 11 PM, and also will travel about 110 miles today, which is quite typical, to do all this. She will be back in that city tomorrow for private voice and acting lessons where she is preparing for college auditions and the NFAA award submission too. And again all day on Sunday for rehearsal. Fitting in the homework, college application written materials, and audition prep work (let's not even mention practicing piano or guitar, both of which she takes lessons on) is crazy. The Michigan application was pretty involving but is just about done. One down, 7 to go, lol. Then 8 trips. We will get through it. Can't wait for April, lol. I did just have a daughter go through this last year but not the BFA part which is a whole added dimension and I thought it was very hectic what she had to do senior year as it were. She, too, however, had the same heavy duty extracurricular involvement that this daughter does. I guess it all got done with her and in fact, she is a very happy camper at the moment, loving every moment of Brown and is very glad with the choice she made. I loved hearing of the happiness that Mtheatermom's D is having at NYU too. That's what we all want to have happen for our kids!

Susan

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Susan...
We thank our lucky stars that D can drive herself now. At least we don't have to drive her back and forth to school (25 minute drive) and all the lessons, etc. Now that she drives herself, it makes it a bit easier on me. The most worrisome part is the 3 week overlap for us when she is in two shows at the same time....one at her high school and one in a city a 45 minute drive from her high school. When she has to leave afternoon rehearsal at school to drive to the other rehearsal...then drive home at 9 or 10 pm, I worry she'll fall asleep at the wheel. They certainly have to be passionate about it all to keep up the pace! I look forward to raising a toast with you all in about 8 months (oh, let's hope it's sooner than that!) when we all know they're going somewhere! (fingers crossed!) Have a great weekend all!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Susan and Musicalthtrmom, you are making me feel like I'm not the only mom whose D is going through a horrendous schedule (with over 1 1/2 years left of this). Knowing you guys are doing it, makes me feel like I can hang in there through next year when it will obviously be even worse! Thanks!

By Mtpop (Mtpop) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 04:10 pm: Edit

For those of you who have been there, some advise please. Do you think it's wise to try and audition for a college while also performing in a show? My S is playing Sky in Guys and Dolls. Will have shows Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. Will fly about an hour to audition around noon on Saturday, and then fly back to do the show. Oh yeah, he's also doing a Thespian Festival type audition Thursday afternoon before the first show.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Mtpop, ideally that wouldn't be the way to do it. Is it not possible to schedule the audition at another time? I would think that would be pretty easy to do this early in the year when schedules are just now becoming available at many schools. The possible problems which he could face are more than I'd want to take a chance on, given the importance of these auditions. There might be flight delays, traffic delays, not to mention that audition schedules OFTEN do not run on time. Some of these auditions require that the student be available for several hours. I think the biggest detriment, however, is that he certainly will not be relaxed in that scenario. I would advise against it and suggest that you reschedule at a more convenient time.

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Mtpop - If you have other options, I'd suggest NOT flying off for an audition the weekend of a show. Vocal fatigue, stress, and the possibility of missed flight connections would make for one heck of a weekend!!!! Can it be done? certainly -Is it the wisest thing? probably not!

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 06:31 pm: Edit

DONE! My applications are in and the auditions are scheduled. Now it’s work, work, work and wait, wait, wait. This list has been of great help to me in getting this accomplished and I want to thank all of you. What I need to do now is to get the whole college process as much off my mind as I can, so I’m gonna need to make myself scarce around here for awhile. My email is on my profile, so please feel free to write me if you need links to new threads if nobody new emerges to do them. Thanks again, everybody, and broken legs to all! URRAH!!!

(Sorry for the double post)

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 07:27 pm: Edit

I WOULD LIKE TO ADD MY D AND MYSELF TO THE STRESSED GROUP OF APPLICATIONS, REHEARSALS, LESSONS, ETC. I JUST SUGGESTED TO HER THAT WE JUST GO TO SANTA MONICA CITY COLLEGE, BUT SHE WILL HAVE NO PART OF THAT. ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE, WE ARE STILL DOING SAT'S. THIS WAS SO MUCH EASIER WITH MY OLDER DAUGHTER WHO IS CURRENTLY IN COLLEGE. ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS WRITE ONE ESSAY, FILL OUT ONE APPLICATION, AND CHECK OFF ALL OF THE UC'S (UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA) CAMPUSES THAT SHE WAS INTERESTED IN. SHE ACTUALLY ENJOYED THIS PROCESS!

ANYWAY, I'M HAPPY TO SEE THAT I'M IN GOOD COMPANY HERE ON THESE BOARDS. GOOD LUCK TO ALL!

P.S. IS ANYONE ELSE NOTICING THAT SOME SCHOOLS EACH ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION TO WRITE YOUR ESSAY ON INSTEAD OF JUST USING YOUR PERSONAL STATEMENT?

By Lamom (Lamom) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Son is a music performance major. The audition process was stressful-I kept telling myself it could be worse-he could be trying for MT. Son loves to perform and was a local big fish in small pond. Never had a problem with auditions for local stuff. BUT college application/audition process was so different and full of stress for this small town sticks kid. The 3 auditions one weekend was not a piece of cake. Wish I had found this board sooner.

Son came home for the 1st time this weekend to get skate board and tux. He was asked to help out the HS Jazz band. He is so happy playing his horn. We were so proud and happy to see him play.-it was all worth it. He is working harder than ever but learning and enjoying. It really does work out. More stress during the process, but for us more joy. Best of luck to everyone.
LA

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Theatermom (or anyone else)....I am just curious about something that I can't figure out which is the right way. My daughter typed up her repertoire list for UMich (application is about to go out on Monday), and as you know, that was quite the job. It needs to be alphabetized by composer. As each song has a composer and lyricist, my daughter alphabetized those two people WITHIN each entry and then the entire list is in alphabetical order. So, when alphabetizing the two names within an entry, sometimes that meant the composer's name was first and sometimes it meant the lyricist's name went first. For instance, in Kander and Ebb, Ebb's name was before Kander's. With Andrew Lloyd Webber and Don Black, Black's name was before Webber's though Webber composed the music. So, when doing it this way, upon scanning her long list, some names just don't pop out to me. For instance, a song by Frank Wildhorn and Leslie Bricasse, has Bricasse first and most think of the song as a Wildhorn song. Same with another by Wildhorn and Knighton, it is entered with Knighton first. Some well known composer/lyricist teams are not entered in the way they are usually thought of, such as Ebb and Kander (rather than Kander and Ebb), Hammerstein and Rodgers (vs. Rodgers and Hammerstein), and Scanlon and Tesori (vs. listing Tesori first who is more associated with that music).

So, would you have entered each song entry on the list using the person who wrote the music, then the person who wrote the lyrics (which in some cases are the more well known way their composing team is referred to), or do you alphabetized the two names within each entry on the list?

She already has done it the way I mentioned but when I scan over it, the composer names don't stand out as easily. Just wondering. I know it is not that important but it should look "right" I would think. And I am simply curious.

Musicalthtrmom....
You are right about your daughter driving herself, as it makes a big difference. I have an 18 year old college freshman and she got her license at age 16 which was right when her junior year started, and it helped SO much when she was able to driver herself, as she also had a very full extracurricular schedule (like my MT child) each afternoon, evening and weekend. What was great about it is that for years I struggled with my kids' two schedules and how I could be in two different places at the same time, particularly as we live in a rural area and my kids are involved in activities over a very wide region. Once the first child could drive, it helped a real lot.

This second daughter is turning 16 next week. She normally would be getting a license as she has had her permit for a full year but it is required to complete driver's education, as well as 40 hours of practice driving. Fitting in driver's education for kids who are active outside of school is nearly impossible, and getting it in during the school day is very difficult for kids who take the most demanding courseloads as my kids have, plus they go away in summer so that is out. This daughter is taking the course during the school day, though there are some conflicts with Choir but at least that is not an academic subject and it is workable and she goes to Choir but not full time right now. So, she has to wait until Jan. to be able to get her license when the course is done. The kicker is getting in 40 hours of practice driving, as if we could possible fit another activity in. It is not like she is just sitting home and we can go out driving. We spend countless hours in the car already. So, for now, I am trying to have her drive some of our regular drives though she has yet to learn to drive the interstate or stuff like that. But it is like one more thing to fit in this semester!

I guess I should be happy when she finally drives herself but I think I will be a nervous wreck when this particular kid drives alone. Plus she will get her license in the thick of winter which is very difficult driving here on dark roads, tons of snow and ice, dirt roads, mountains, no lighting....yikes....and long distances to activities in the dark. I don't wanna think about it. I am sure I will survive as I got through it with the first child but this one makes me even more nervous at that thought!

Susan

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Soozievt - I can SO sympathize with finding the time to fit in the driving hours! In our case, the momentum was - she was involved in a production which had rehearsals when I couldn't get her there, so she HAD to get the license!! Most of her hours were on the interstate to her lessons, rehearsals, etc.

Regarding UMich's repertoire list - I believe it says list by COMPOSER - not composer OR lyricist - there is your answer... alphabetize by composer, and if you choose to include lyricist, list them second.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 09:22 pm: Edit

Susan, I haven't seen UMich's requirements but I would imagine that if they asked for the list alphabetized by composer, then that's what you have to do. I know my D has helped numerous kids prepare those lists, and also in any theatre type listings, the composer is always listed first, the lyricist second, regardless of their name.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 10:42 pm: Edit

For those of you who have already made visits to departments, I have a question. My D is going to visit 2 MT programs this November. Of course, I am taking her. Will I be allowed to sit in on the classes with her--or do I make myself scarce?

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

Whether or not you will be allowed to sit in on classes with your D depends on the instructor. I don't know of any school that has a blanket policy regarding parents visiting a class. Some instructors will allow you to visit alongside your D; some will ask that you find something else to do while your D visits because they feel that the students in their class might feel inhibited if a parent is in the room. We visited several schools. At some schools my husband and I sat in on everything. At others, we saw some classes and were asked to wait outside during some of the other classes.

By Frozenchosenak3 (Frozenchosenak3) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 11:57 pm: Edit

All of you are a wealth of knowledge and I am so thrilled to have found this site three weeks ago. I am still back on May 6th but wanted to ask a few questions. A big thanks to soozievt for getting me interested since our son, 15, went to Stagedoor Manor for the first time this summer and landed a lead in a third session play as well as a master's acting and master's acting slot (also invited to do Cabaret but knew it would be too overwhelming since he had LOTS of music and lines to learn for his lead) and theatermom and MANY others who have included many personal experiences. QUESTION: Is it correct that when looking at MT colleges you should consider those that do not have graduate programs since freshman/sophomores will probably not have the opportunity for good parts? Also, does anyone have any experience in participating in the DEBUT EVENTS showcases. My son got a callback today for the DEBUT 2005 here in Anchorage to be held in LA, March 25-28th. Is the cost worth it? Is it too early for him to be pursuing this route?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:06 am: Edit

Theaterbroad and Alwaysamom, thanks for your responses regarding the alphabetizing of her repertoire list. I told her my gut feeling (similar to yours) now that the list is all done and ready to send. She was not too keen on changing the whole thing (as it changes the order of the songs on the list, not just the order of the names on some of the entries themselves) which is a bit of a job considering she has a pretty long repertoire list.

When I brought the point up tonight (before posting here), she said, well, not all composers are listed before lyricists as she pointed out Ahrens and Flaherty which is how you usually hear them referred to. That's the thing as with some of her songs, you think of the way the combo of composer/lyricist is known (ie., Kander and Ebb, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Ahrens and Flaherty....or in the cases I mentioned earlier where a song is a Wildhorn, Webber, Tesori song, etc. .....often associated with a certain name, the composer, not the lyricist). She won't be too keen on changing all these listings but I think maybe it should be because as I mentioned if your eye scanned the list, some of the names are not as "known" as they are the lyricist first in the entry due to her using alphabetizing.

I thank you for giving that feedback.

Theaterbroad, in my D's case, it really does not have to do with motivation to get her license. The issue of getting a driver's education course into my kid's schedules is difficult. It was with my first child too. Most of the kids who take the most demanding schedule academically, and also take music (chorus/band), have no other free periods in their day to take anything else. Evening courses conflict with committed EC things. Summer courses do not work as they go out of state to summer programs. It is an issue for lots of kids here, to get that course. Luckily we found a way to get the course this fall but that is the reason she cannot get the license on her sixteenth birthday next week, because the course is a semester long. Getting it three months later than her birthday is actually doing pretty good as we know kids getting it MUCH later due to this logistic of the course. My other daughter did get hers right on her 16th birthday. The thing with this child is that she is not only young for her normal grade (was a year ahead due to early entrance into kindergarten, thus chronologically would normally now be in tenth grade), but is now also graduating a year early and is a senior. So, in the end, she will only have her license second semester of her senior year due to her age. It is ok because I only have one child at home and I can drive her to her stuff and it does involve about 100 miles per day which as a new driver, I might have been hesitant about anyway. I've always been a "taxi" mom. Pretty soon, those days will be over for me though!

MTMommy, with my older daughter on college visits, she oberved classes only on her second visits to a school, and when she did, she observed without me, though I acompanied her on other aspects of the visit. With this second child, we have only visited two schools so far, At NYU, she got to observe two dance classes at CAP, only because she had a friend in them who arranged it (because Tisch will not arrange for students to observe) and so she did so without me. At UMich, she had lined up an observation to a Musical Performance class ahead of time with the professor and I assumed only she would get to do that but when we went to it, the professor invited me to also stay and watch. The class was only 15 kids and they all sat on a stage and I chose to sit in the theater seats but they asked my daughter to join them in the circle. It was fun for me to watch, but I did not go expecting to be able to sit in.

Susan

PS, Alwaysamom, my D's boyfriend wants to go to Atlantic (that's your daughter's studio, I believe).

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:16 am: Edit

Frozen...Hey, did not see your post when I just posted above. I did not know your son went to SDM. My D was there first and second session (was her seventh year!). Your son did really well getting a lead in a play and getting into cabaret! Third session was mostly new kids, not old timers and my D's friends all go first and second. We have referred many kids to SDM and a local girl was there third. Might your son return next summer? Mine is going to go for first. She is also in the cabaret, which she loves.

I see you live in Alaska (and noticed on their forum that someone went from Alaska, must be your son, as there aren't too many from your neck of the woods there!). My brother and his family live in Anchorage. My niece who is 15 1/2 is involved in theater (drama) there. We keep telling her to go to SDM. I will tell her that a boy her age from there goes! I wonder if they are in the same high school. She would be in your son's grade most likely, tenth.

I am sorry to not help with your question regarding Debut Showcases as I have never heard of those. What is it?

I have not heard anyone suggest to only apply to programs without graduate students due to opportunities for casting in the productions. I don't know any of the programs where graduate students are in the same shows with undergraduates, or have not heard that as an issue at any of the BFA programs in MT that my D is applying to. If I am wrong, others will surely let ya know here.

Susan

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:32 am: Edit

Has everyone scheduled their auditions yet? Ive got a few, but not all...

By Frozenchosenak3 (Frozenchosenak3) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 02:33 am: Edit

Small world, soozievt!!!!!!! He goes to the new SOUTH high. He has been in the Drama, Debate and Forensics Club at Service High this past year. HE took 1st place in Pantomime at state. Please let me know what high school your niece goes to. I've lived here 42 years and teach at a middle school.

He absolutely LOVED SDM and will probably be back next year third session. He came down with another buddy from Service High also 15 and his little 10 year old brother. We went to NYC for three days prior to our drive to camp and saw "42nd Street", "Lion King" and ushered for "Blue Man Group Tubes" in Greenwich Village. We toured NYU and Tisch and stayed at Times Square. It was an awesome August for them.

It's wonderful following this thread. I have learned sooooooooo much. Thanks for your input.

By Lfill (Lfill) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:07 am: Edit

Parents, it has been so interesting to read your rhoughts. My daughter wants to pursue MT. The thing is, what are the chances of really "making it" and having a career that will support you? The odds seem amazingly low. Are your children realistic? Mine does not seem to be. We don't want to dash dreams, but just seeing here the number of kids going in this direction further scares me.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:14 am: Edit

Frozenchose...I will have to find out the name of my niece's high school in Anchorage. She also is in Drama/Debate/Forensics and did well at some competition last year too (with a male partner I think). She is in tenth grade and her initials are EC. She has gone several summers to a drama program (not overnight) in Anchorage, that MAY be affiliated with a college, not sure on that aspect. My nephew goes to middle school in Anchorage and is in 8th and his initials are TC. He plays base in orchestra and also plays guitar and drums too. He is in Little League and basketball I think. I can try to find out which schools these are. The HS my niece goes to, I know last spring she went to Orlando with the band. I know that the school offers IB curriculum. I am not sure if those two things help identify which HS or not. We saw them this past August (on the east coast).

I am so glad that your son loved SDM! The program has been a significant factor in my daughter's life. She loves it beyond belief. Going there the past seven years (six weeks each summer, but one summer was for nine), has really shaped her involvement in this field, as well as deepened her passion for it. The friendship bonds she has with SDM kids is very very close. She is in daily contact with kids from all over the country, and struggles with not being able to see them too easily given that we live in Vermont and they do not, but I will remind her what it is like for your son, as he surely cannot visit with SDM friends being from Alaska. My daughter went to FL last XMAS vacation to meet up with about 15 SDM buddies and that is again her birthday present next week for her sixteenth birthday. She has SDM friends attending just about all the MT BFA programs to which she is applying and quite a number of them applying alongside her this fall. Inevitably, she likely will end up in some program with at least one other Stagedoorian.

By the way, she also was in Acting Master Class the last couple of years and has loved that class. She does not have such a class at home.

Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Hi everyone!

Sorry for the delay in responding to several direct questions. We're in the throws of computer issues (for you techies out there, our router failed so my computer, which is on a wireless network in our house, cannot access the internet. The good news is that I found out that Microsoft actually warranties the device for TWO YEARS!! and is sending us a new one for free. Every other device in this network seemed to have 90 days and then sayonara! It could be worse, it could be last year when we were trying to do applications online..... But I digress......)

MTpop
I concur that it is a definite no-no on the idea of squeezing in an audition out of town during a show weekend unless there is absolutely no other way you can manage, and then only if your son has an understudy. It would be irresponsible to bring a whole show to its knees because of travel or time issues and I can't imagine your son would be relaxed enough to show his best. You most definitely want to create an environment that is as relaxed and free of deadlines as you can manage. I know this is harder in the case of Unified auditions, but for on campus auditions, do your best to leave enough time for the unexpected because our experience suggests that it always happens (see our posts from last December and January for OUR horror stories)

Soozievt,
Please take this comment with the care for your sanity with which it is intended - with regard to the "alphbetization of composer and lyricist names on the UMich application" you are in about 10 miles too deep. This is so NOT important!!! The admissions folks don't really know what the instructions say at that level of detail or read the apps at that level of specificity. Don't go overboard by giving them every song your D has ever performed. My recollection of the UMich application (and I could be wrong here, my memory ain't what it used to be) was that it asked for "representative" repertoire. They are interested in repertoire as a way of assessing "type." I know for certain that we did not adhere to the "strict letter of the law" for this part of the app and clearly it was okay - she's there!! You'll have plenty of other things to legitimately concern yourself with - this is not one of them.

Frozenchosen,
Whether or not you choose to look/apply to undergarduate programs that also have graduate programs is up to you, but they DO exist and graduate students in many of these programs are cast in MT productions with UG's. (NYU Steinhardt uses grads as does OCU I think. Other posters may have info about other programs) If having a greater opportunity to perform in more and/or lead roles is important to your child, then a program without a graduate program is the way to go. BTW, the 2 programs I cited have masters programs in Music/Vocal Performance. I don't believe that there are many MFA MT programs. Most MT BFA's go off to see if they can work.

LAfill,
Realistic? What's that? I think that most of the parents on this board, myself included, have come to the conclusion that NOTHING could stop our kids from the pursuit of this dream at this point in their lives. Only they can and maybe will decide when they've had enough. I believe it was MTdad, a long, long time ago on this thread who said that if your child can think of anything else they would be equally happy doing, then you should think about encouraging them to do so. Otherwise, I think you should be thrilled they actually HAVE a passion for something, support them as best you can and then get out of the way.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:41 pm: Edit

Dancersmom and Susan--Thanks for the feedback about whether I should sit in on classes or not. D is planning to sit in on classes for a full day at each of the 2 schools. I'll play it by ear, then, and see what they want.
And I'll bring a book!

Frozen--My D's musical theatre teacher has an MFA in MT. She thinks one of the most important requirements for a program for my D is that the school doesn't have an MFA in MT. We're staying open minded about that for now, but of course it's in our minds since she thinks it's so important. After all, she saw how the casting went when she got her MFA.

By Frozenchosenak3 (Frozenchosenak3) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Soozievt,
My son thinks she goes to WEST and perhaps performed with a tall fellow named Chuck. West has a WONDERFUL DDF team and we know the coach personally. I graduated from there.

Does anyone know anything about JB Entertainment out of Thousand Oaks, CA?
http://www.EntertainmentJB.com

It sounds a bit like American Modeling & Talent Convention. They will train him for two Saturdays a month for 6 months and send him to perform in LA for industry executives (directors and talent agents) for $4,500.

From your previous posting you had said that your daughter had an agent in NYC. I figured you had some experience with contracts. It almost sounds too good to be true so probably it is.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:16 pm: Edit

Just another opinion on the graduate program issue, there are so few graduate MT programs in the country that it shouldn't really be a concern for most students. MTmommy, if your D's teacher is making such an issue of it, perhaps you should look at the school she went to and see if that's still the case. Do you know what school she went to? Personally I think that this is such a very small issue in determining which school might be right for your D, it would probably be at the bottom of most applicants' lists of items for 'fit'. In fact, of all the kids I know who are studying in these various colleges across the country, I've never heard that issue raised before. I'd be interested to know what school your D's teacher attended.

Susan, you are correct that my D is at Atlantic. She's very happy with her choice.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Alwaysamom--My D's teacher's degree is from San Diego State, one of the few MFA programs in MT in the country. Interestingly, they have no BFA in MT, so it's not as if MT undergrads were up against MT grad students for parts. It would have been acting undergrads or vocal undergrads up against the grad students, I guess. Don't worry, it's not even on my D's list of questions and answers she wants from every school. Nevertheless, she is visiting U of Arizona in November to check out their MT BFA. They are supposedly starting an MFA in MT soon. If that's the case, the undergrads would be in competition against the grad students. Given the reality of politics in departments with grad programs, I can see where there COULD be problems. We like to believe that roles are won by talent and rightness for role alone, but in truth, other factors sometimes enter in.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, I'm glad to hear that this issue isn't clouding your D's interest in any particular program. It's a shame that her teacher even mentioned it, frankly. I'm somewhat familiar with SDSU, and, even there, it can't be much of a problem with auditioning for roles. They only admit 8-10 grad MT students every two years. I'm a firm believer in these kids getting used to being faced with competition in the audition process. It's a reality even at the h/s level, most of them will have experienced it many times by the time they are admitted to a BFA program, and it's not something which will ease as they enter into their professional lives. There will always be competition, whether it be from their own classmates or from a few grad students. I'm not sure that any of us on this forum whose children are pursuing this major are naive enough to believe that roles are won by talent and rightness for role alone all (or even most) of the time.

By Stagemomdj (Stagemomdj) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Frozen....just another perspective on the graduate/undergraduate question. My D is an MT sophomore at OCU (where there is a MFA in MT offered). She had a lead in a musical last year and has just been cast in a lead for an opera this semester. Yes, she competes 'against' graduate students for these parts. At OCU, they always double-cast the leads (especially for the girls) and it appears that one of the leads is always a graduate student or upper-classman and the other an undergraduate. This allows the younger kids the opportunity to get some experience....otherwise it would be natural that all leads all the time would be given to graduate students. Just something else to think about and ask about when/if you visit.

By Lfill (Lfill) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 02:35 pm: Edit

Can anyone tell me what you have seen in terms of grads of these programs? How many make it to Broadway? Are most waiting tables? I am quite scared for my daughter. I'm not sure that she would not be crushed if she goes through years of study to have to do a menial job. So few can be stars. Do kids study other things as a back up? any other strategies? My daughter recently did a commercial and the producer sat her down and told her she had real talent, but so did many, many girls. He said sheer luck and being in the right place at the right time would be the deciding factors! Knowing she also has strong grades, he told her to have a strong academic plan that maybe only included MT as a minor. Any thoughts?

By Notarebel (Notarebel) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Lfill -- You do not have to make it on broadway and be a star to make a living in theatre. There are people all over the country working in theatre in different capacities. Most are a long way from rich and some have to keep day jobs waiting tables or being receptionists and things like that but they have something most people do not. They are HAPPY to be doing something they are passionate about. The real question should be how many people do you know who work in whatever it was they studied in college? How many of them got to the top of whatever it was they chose as opposed to those turned out to be typical stressed out wage slaves spending miserable existences in florescent lit cubicles wishing they had followed their dreams when they were young? Follow your bliss. it leads to good places even if they are not where you thought. Doing anything else is living in fear which isnt even living. Its just breathing death.

By Lfill (Lfill) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Like most parents, of course I want my daughter to pursue her passions and be happy. I guess my question is, do these kids really end up happy? At 17, my daughter's dream ends on Broadway, a place she has panted over all od her life. I am not at all sure that having a day job and doing summer stock in Podunk will make her happy. Given the odds, that's what most MT grads will end up doing. We live in NYC and see the huge numbers who turn up for every audition and casting call. They don't all look happy! They live in terrible neighborhoods and eat Kraft M & C. Do these programs give kids the realities?

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Lfill--I hope my response doesn't seem brutal, but your question is really a "deep" question that can't be answered by beating around the bush.

As an adult you have seen that some people pursue their goals and succeed; some people try to fulfill their goals, fall short, but still live contented lives; some people try to fulfill their goals and end up changing because they don't like the result they ended up with; and then some people don't even try because the odds seem daunting. Your D will have to decide for herself, after you present the possibilities, if it's worth it to her to try to aim for her goal. We all know she can't succeed if she doesn't try. She might even find a different, but tangential, goal along the way. What do you want to do? Dash her dreams now, instead of later? Force her to get a business degree? Ask her to "minor in MT" so she can't truly put all her effort into her dream?

Notarebel's comments are beautiful and well-put, but they do neglect the one point you make: that not everyone who goes after their dreams is happy just going after them. There are so many variables. Every individual is different. And just because a student goes to school for an MT degree does not mean that person can't change his/her mind or his/her future.

Another subject, but related, of course, is the question that sometimes comes up in parents' minds: I know my child is talented, but is she truly talented enough with all that competition? Does she have the drive, the perserverance, the organization skills, and on and on and on? Go to lots of shows. Can you see your D truly competing with those people? Does she have something special on stage that makes people want to watch her instead of the others? If you are brutally honest with yourself as you examine the situation, maybe then you can decide whether you want to back her 100% in her goal--or whether you want to hold back on the enthusiasm.

By Lfill (Lfill) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Thank you for your thoughtful response Mtmommy. You hit on much of what we have been thinking through. Our daughter is a beautiful girl with a beautiful voice who dances well. Of course we see star power, but I think it's hard for a parent not to. Last year we allowed her to go "professional." She got an agent and began to really go after this as a career. She has gotten several commercials and been close to some small roles on Broadway. Here's the rub. When we took this step what we saw was just how many beautiful, talented kids with star power there are out there. Go to any casting call and see them lined up around the block. We now know that luck plays a big role too. So we want her to pursue her dream, but we're not sure she should give up going to a very top college to do so. If she can get into Yale and have it all great, but her grades are more Brown. She enjoys an upper middle class lifestyle and when we ask if she would be willing to live on much less to act she tells us she'll be rich and famous. This is where our fears come in. Is this what all of the kids think? Do your kids say they would be OK with starving actor lives?

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Lfill,

Forgive me, but what kind of mixed messages are you giving your D? and us? You let her get an agent in NYC, do commercials and audition for parts on Broadway but you're considering discouraging her from pursuing the additional training she could get in a high quality MT college program that might help her make the decision if this is really what SHE wants to do? (And, by the way, great MT training and high quality academics are not mutually exclusive....)Would you rather she get private training in NYC and continue auditioning? Do you want her to go to Yale or Brown so you can say she is going to an Ivy instead of an MT MFA program? Are you secretly hoping that she'll land a big part and then not have to go to school? If you've let her get this far, what do you think her reaction will be if you pull the rug out from under her now? And of course she thinks she'll be rich and famous and maybe she will.....and more likely she won't, (big BUT here), but SHE will have made the choice and then SHE'LL make whatever choice she has to make next. You say your daughter enjoys an upper middle class lifestyle. How can she possibly answer the question of whether she'd be happy as a starving actor until she's had to? I totally agree with Notarebel. Let your D choose her life and then live it. She appears to be luckier than most in that she already has great connections, she has your home (which just happens to be where she wants to work anyway) and your lifestyle to fall back on (and don't tell us you wouldn't let her come back home for awhile if she needed to....). And to hear and believe what you say, she's beautiful AND very talented. And you're right, that is still no guarantee. But what else would you have her do? And who would she be making happy by doing it? Continue to support her dreams and be there to help her pick up the pieces and decide on a Plan B at some point in the future if need be. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the I think the mixed messages you are sending are at the root of your dilemma.

By 5pants (5pants) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Lfill,

My sons have informed me that no matter what MT/Acting is what they will do no matter what..."even if they have to live on Ramen noodles and live out of cardboard box". DO they wish to be stars? I truly do not believe that they ever think of being "famous"...that is not their nature. In fact they would tell you that fame, for the most part, is uninvited...it just happens. My guys know that this is their direction in life....they are focused and have never faultered. Who am I be to stand in their way with "what ifs"?! I am here to encourage them. I feel extremely thankful that they have *a* direction and focus in life (more than most their age can say.) I have no doubt that some way some how they will touch someone else's life through their art. In my mind that is worth more than all the tea in China.

I say let her go for it....that is *if* she can not see herself doing anything else in life!

Good Luck!

SUE

By Lfill (Lfill) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Sue, I would actually be fine if my daughter claimed she would be happy eating noodles and didn't expect to be famous! It's that she is a bit immature and truly believes she will be a star. To backtrack, we were all very naive about theater. We thought if a good agent took her we wouls soon see what the potential was. Well agents are in the business of telling you fame is just around the corner and children believe them. I think my daughter's view of how easy it will be to be a star is directly attributable to the agent. We have been fortunate to meet some more honest, less invested professionals too. The consensus seems to be that being an MT major would not benefit her that much. She should either delay college and continue her private training, or use college to get credentials for a back up plan. This rings true to me. My older kids are at ivys so any ego needs are met. I just honestly feel that she's in for serious dissapointment. I also feel that she need to create a life for herself and that living with mommy and daddy after college should not be an option. Thank you Dr. Phil! So is there anyone out there who can tell me how reality effects these kids upon graduation?

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 07:36 pm: Edit

Lfill,

Mtmommy and Notarebel have given you some very well put advice. I'm going to hazard a guess that almost all of the parents posting here have asked themselves if their kids have a realistic chance of making it in NYC. I certainly have. My H and I have given the issue much thought as I'm sure everyone else here has. We have chosen to do as Notarebel advises and encourage our D to follow her bliss. We and D's teachers have counseled her about how tough the business is. She has been around the block enough to realize how much good connections and a dose of luck matter. I think she realizes that she may never put a foot on a stage near Broadway, but she needs to try. She is also realistic about the cost of living in NYC. She laughs about renting space in someone's closet and eating ramen made with rainwater when she moves to New York. Our D has never lived an upper middle class life style, so that won't be an issue. She knows that her parents have had to watch their pennies. We've tried to make her aware of how expensive life is. I think that she has met enough performers over the past 7 years or so that she has a pretty realistic picture of what the life of a newbie will be like.

My H and I know that there is a possibility that she may tire of the insecurity of the performing life. We have never really worried that she won't be able to support herself if her attempt to be a performer in NYC fails. D could open a dance studio and teach. (Right now I'd have to say that my D is a more skilled dancer than most of the local dance studio owners.) D could become a private voice teacher. D could return to college and earn a MFA in either dance or theatre and teach at the college level. D has a good brain in her head. She was an honors student in H.S. and has top notch SAT and ACT scores. She has interests in choreography and stage combat in addition to almost all areas of theatre. D could return to college and become certified to teach either dance or drama or music at the K-12 level. If she so desired, she could go to law school. Her undergraduate drama training would serve her well in the courtroom. Of course, there are lots of other possibilities.

Lfill, how old is your D? Is she nearing the end of H.S.? I wonder if she really believes that she will be rich and famous. Maybe she tells you that to show you that she is confident. Maybe she's trying to say that she believes that she'll be one of the lucky kids who makes it in the business and that she doesn't want you to worry. On the other hand, perhaps she really doesn't know how tough the business is. If that is the case, auditioning for some of the top MT programs might be eye-opening for her.

We got some advice from the parents of a Michigan MT student when we visited U.M. during our D's junior year. (Their son and our D performed together in Cinti. 6 years ago. Theatermom, I'm talking about D.B., the fantastic tapper you said was best in show at the U.M. senior showcase this spring.) They told their son during his senior year of H.S. that if he didn't get accepted by any of the top MT programs, he should rethink MT as a career. They decided to let the audition process be a sort of test for their family. Somehow, this idea resonated with me. I thought that if my D could get accepted by some of the top programs her chances of making it as a performer were looking up.

Long ago, in another life, I taught college music theory classes. The 1st year that I taught at a major state university, any student could declare a major in music. The music dept., to put it mildly, was not very happy about this. A large part of my job was to fail students who could not possibly succeed as music majors. Traditionally, 50% of the freshmen class changed majors by the end of the 1st semester. By the end of the year another 20 to 25% of the freshmen had left. Most of the students who ended up leaving the music dept. should not have been there in the 1st place. They had decided to major in music because it was the subject they most enjoyed in H.S. Some of the students had never had a private lesson. Some of the voice majors could not read music. None of the kids who changed majors after the 1st or 2nd semesters had the talent or the background needed to become successful performing musicians or music teachers.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, just like some of the music majors I used to teach, there are some kids who are passionate about MT who haven't done a very good job of self assessment. Maybe they simply do not have a lot of innate talent. Maybe they have had very little training in H.S. and so are approaching college at a disadvantage. Sometimes these kids can still have satisfying lives in the theatre. I know a student who tried acting and had no aptitude for it. He truly loves theatre and decided that if he couldn't work on stage he would work back stage. He's on his way to becoming a lighting designer.

I know some kids who are pursuing MT at "non-ivy" programs. I have my doubts that they will ever work on stage, not because of the schools that they are attending, but because I've seen no outstanding vocal, acting, or dancing ability and seen no magnetic stage presence. But, I could be wrong. Maybe these kids simply have not yet had good training or they are late bloomers. The important thing is that these kids are pursuing something that is important to them. If in the grand scheme of things, their dream of being performers is doomed because of lack of talent, I believe that those kids will have their epiphanies. They will find some other way to make a living. They may decide to make theatre their avocation. I know many people whose passion is community theatre.

Lfill, I think you are dealing with 2 separate issues. 1) You want to know if your child has the talent necessary to succeed if the fates are with her. 2) Does she have a realistic picture of what life will be like as she attempts to begin a performing career in NYC? I would suggest pulling together all the outside help you can muster. You've already had your D seen by an agent. What do her teachers say about her skills? Has she done any summer MT programs? Has your D talked to any adults who've performed in NYC? Your D will probably believe that someone who's "been there" has more credibility than mom and dad. If you believe that your D has real talent I'd suggest encouraging her. There's nothing sadder than to reach middle age and wonder what might have been if only... At the same time, your D does need to have a clear head on her shoulders. She needs to understand how difficult the business can be and that there will be lean times. If she majors in MT at any of the top programs, her instructors will certainly hammer that idea home. She'll also begin to see what some of her competition is like if she has none now. Sometimes kids who are the big fish in the little pond have no competition. They have a hard time realizing that there are many people out there in the world who are just as talented or even more talented than they.

Good luck!

By Monkey (Monkey) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Lfill,
You have received some incredibly thoughtful and caring replies from the posters here on this thread. I continue to be amazed by the generous spirited people that communicate here; one of the reasons I am drawn back to read and occasionally respond.
I agree that the bottom line for any parent is to provide support, compassion, and a good dose of parental realism for their children as this new milestone in life approaches. Who can say what will work out in any chosen path one takes? While some choices appear more predictable, each young person should have the ability to try to follow their dream. A performing career calls to those with a very special kind of heart, and it is that passion that will see one through the ineitable difficult times. Or not. And parents can't protect or prevent that kind of life learning.

By Notarebel (Notarebel) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 08:14 pm: Edit

You would think reality would effect anyone who has had a good teacher a LONG time before graduation. What we are taught from the start is that there is no such thing as a prodigy and even if there was she would still have a LOT of work to do. 20 years worth at least. there are some people in my studio who came to school with a star attitude. hahahaha NO MORE! Its been funny this year watching the new drama kids. Almost all of them had that attitude but the system is working and they are feeling the hangover with rude awakenigs galore! We seniors will even be able to start being nice to them soon. hahahaha The ones who will still be around next year are the ones who have figured out how much work it truly is. If you live in NY and have upper middle class money, send her to one of the top studios in the city. They will bring her down to earth quick. Its about growing and honing your craft - NOT deluding yourself that you get rich and famous from it and anybody who gets a lucky break when she is our age probably wont still be doing it when she is 50 if she doesnt keep working on getting better. This is a life long endeavor, not a get rich quick scheme. Sorry. I get emotional about stuff like this.

By Frozenchosenak3 (Frozenchosenak3) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 08:38 pm: Edit

What wonderful thoughtful advice from all of you. Thanks so much for sharing you thoughts and experiences.

FYI--IF any of you are planning a trip to Alaska, please consider attending the Edward Albee Last Frontier Theatre Conference in Valdez, Alaska in June (the best month to visit, in my opinion). Our son, 15, had an opportunity to "get up close and personal" with some major players in the theatre. These people would not be approachable in NYC, perhaps but he was able to in the small town of Valdez (val deez) at the end of the pipeline. Playwrights, directors, and actors from all over the nation attend a conference at the Prince William Sound Community College for a week. Tony Kirshner (Pulizer Prize winning play "Angels in America") was honored this year by Edward Albee for his contribution to theatre. The words Last Frontier Theatre Conference (Valdez) on a Yahoo search will bring up some backstage.com articles about the conference. IT was a highlight of our son's summer this year as well as Stagedoor Manor summer camp. He met John Guare, Romulus Linney, Lloyd Richards, Lawrence Sacharow, and Marian Sellens, and Courtney Vance just to name a few. He spent ten minutes talking to Patricia Neal about Northwestern U and their theatre program. The days are divided up with 4 rooms of ten minute short plays (about three sessions each) and 1 two hour play (full length) after lunch. All of the plays are reviewed with successful playwrights as well as the audience (many MFA grads) and workshops are conducted in the afternoon as well. Every evening a professional "performance" is done in the auditorium by either the above named guest artists or by local professional theatre groups performing the award winning works. The cost is only about $250 for the week--free to any participating actors. Playwrights can submit their plays in the early winter. Over 200 were submitted last year and about 25 were read. Any actors can submit resumes and be invited to "read/perform" for these readings. It is a delight to watch! Sorry to be a bit off track from MT but thought everyone should know about this little known Alaskan "theatre treasure".

By Artsymom (Artsymom) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 11:36 pm: Edit

One more comment on Lfill's question: I may be reading something between Lfill's lines that isn't there, and I certainly don't mean to be harsh. But I wonder, Lfill, if your D's dream and passion revolve around fame, not MT. In other words, is fame the end, and her MT talents and good looks the means to that end? There's nothing wrong with wanting to be famous. But what if that desire isn't fueled by a substantive passion? Well, for one thing, it shows. And for another, someone driven by fame has a very narrow definition of success -- which means anything short of that is failure. My D wrote something quite different in one of her application essays, and I have to say it pleased me greatly. I'm sure I'm not quoting exactly, but it was something like, "In 10 years I see myself as a musical theatre performer. I know everyone says 'Broadway,' and of course I want Broadway, too. But the main thing is I want to be on a stage, large or small, in front of an audience, large or small. That's my passion." You might respond that my D may not be as ambitious as yours. Perhaps that's true, or perhaps my D is simply more realistic. In any case, I'm absolutely certain she's following both her talent and her heart.

By Lfill (Lfill) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Artsymom, I think you hit on what I was having trouble articulating. I don't think my daughter's application would read like yours. I think fame is the end game in her mind. A small stage and audience does not seem to be among her considerations. She doesn't yet show the maturity that your daughter shows. Sometimes I think her physical beauty is part curse. It has easily won her the leads in school and local plays. While she has talent, this is not a kid who spends hours practicing. She has many other interests but nothing I'd call a true passion.

Thank you all for the real help you've provided. I think I will leave it to her coaches to get the idea through that fame needs not to be the only outcome. If she still wants to pursue after a few doses of reality, we will support her.

By Artsymom (Artsymom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:23 am: Edit

Lfill, What a good, honest answer. I think all our kids are mature in some ways, not so mature in others (I know mine is!). They've all been praised and applauded, and some of them have lots of experience. But when you get beneath all that, they're kids. Smart, talented, passionate, committed, ambitious, sure....but they ain't grown-ups! I just hope you feel you can trust your D's coaches.

You've also raised the interesting question of looks. It's something we parents may not want to address head-on, but it has to be in our minds when our kids are pursuing such an image-conscious field. My D's a beautiful girl, but not in the "typical" MT way: she's small, athletic and Asian. She has a lot of charisma onstage, but she'll never be a leggy leading lady or an "all-American" blonde! I anticipate that as she continues with MT, her particular look will sometimes be an advantage, but sometimes a disadvantage. Non-traditional casting, anyone??

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 02:43 am: Edit

Finally I think we have come up with the "final" list. Tomorrow I'm making plane reservations to visit them all and applications start going out this week. My daughter always said she wanted an MT program with a good dance foundation, that was the easy part. After looking at all the schools, she also decided she wanted a medium size school with a good liberal arts program. Good academics was also required. So here we are in no particular order:
Muhlenberg College
Elon University
East Carolina University
Baldwin-Wallace College
Otterbein College
Ohio Wesleyan University
Illinois Wesleyan University
Millikin University
The only thing is, these are all so far from S. Calif. home!!
From the academic stand point I'm not too worried. (4.7 weighted GPA, 1470 SAT, 34 ACT) even though she is missing a foreign language. I'm hoping her commitment to drama, music and dance will help compensate for that short coming. Any comments greatly appreciated. You guys are the best.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 09:26 am: Edit

Lfill, you have gotten some incredibly eloquent and thoughtful reponses from other folks here, so I won't get into the same things as I could not say it as good as they have.

Each parent needs to approach things as to what is comfortable for them in their situation. What I think or believe is just that, so would not judge if you think differently. For me, however, I cannot imagine not supporting a child's dreams/goals, while at the same time making sure their eyes are wide open to the field and what it entails and the odds of making it and all that jazz. But if a kid wants to pursue this in college and beyond, I cannot see not supporting it because they might not "make it". You don't know until you try and there is nothing to be lost. The child will have a college education. While for now, I am fully behind my D's lifelong goals to be on stage, I can also see that she has other talents/abilities and am not worried if for some reason this goal becomes difficult to attain down the line. She is not only smart, but is a gifted writer (everyone could plug in something like that here about their kids, just speaking of my own at the moment). I can see her being a director or chorographer as she has done some of each of those things and actually loved that too (though her goal for now is still to be the one on stage). She also has a knack for creating or writing shows. All those things and any other related things to theater still exist if she does not get work on stage. So, I have no problem with it, nor have I ever thought to steer her away from her goals or field of interest. For both my kids, I just support them along the way but they pick and choose what they wish to do. I think you can give your kid realistic information but not alter their choices, nor do I really wish to honestly. But others may wish to influence their child's choices some, and that is ok but it just is not for me.

With your daughter, (and btw, you have articulated and assessed her very honestly and thoughtfully), it seems like her goal is the fame part. I have to honestly admit that I don't think my D has ever mentioned anything to do with that aspect. She does set high goals for herself and for sure would love to make it at high levels of theater but overall, her life is the stage and the talk is not so much of which stage and so forth. I mean every kid who loves musical theater dreams of Broadway but that is not like the whole end all and be all. For my daughter, it is to have a life on stage. The stage is her life's work and truthfully a very deep seated passion. And I think if your child is going to pursue a BFA degree in this field, it is most appropriate for those who feel a passion for this area and cannot imagine doing anything else or giving it up. That is how she feels and what I am reading of many posters on this forum. For those where it is not a true passion, it might be better to do liberal arts and do theater as a heavy duty extracurricular (i.e., such as at Brown).

As far as which school your child attends, yes, you are right that the "name" of the school will not sound as "prestigious" as where your other kids attend (you mentioned Ivies...and I, too, have an 18 year old at an Ivy school), but what does it matter because most people have NO idea that these particular BFA MT programs are so selective, but the names of the institutions may not be ones that they think of as "up there". Frankly, the admit rate at all the BFA MT programs my second child is applying to are lower and more daunting than those at the Ivy League schools my first child applied to and I thought THOSE odds were tough. The name of these schools do not matter. Anyone in the theater world will know that these programs are quality training grounds in this field. That is if you care about that sort of thing.

You mentioned something about bypassing college and just doing more training and auditioning in NYC. Some do make it that way. But I think you said something about how agents were not looking for kids who have done the college programs and actually I think top agents do very much value those who have trained at fine BFA programs. My daughter has had an agent in NYC since she was ten (though we don't go in hardly at all for auditions now), but that agent even commented to my daughter how she really likes the talent she is seeing coming out of UMich lately. So, they do value the kids in these programs. She mentioned a client she has (a boy that was on Broadway) who is now loving UMich, as an example.

You also mentioned something about your daughter perhaps not being realistic of how difficult this field is and how being talented (or pretty) is not always enough. But I would think, having auditioned on Broadway, that she readily can see how highly competitive it is and the huge number of talented kids out there, as well as can see that sometimes they do not even cast the most talented person but other factors (a specific look or height) come into play. Your daughter has already seen this first hand. I actually am glad that my daughter had the experiences she did auditioning in NYC when younger for things like Bdway shows because she learned to be realistic at that level. Sure, she has gotten cast just about every time she has auditioned for something in our own region and sure she has been leads many times over, but she knows readily that when she auditions in NYC at the highest levels or for BFA programs, it is a different ballgame. Being talented is not enough, plus there are TONS of kids out there just as talented. Your daughter must have seen this in her experiences.

How old is your daughter? You could discuss her goals. If it is merely fame, I would have her plan accordingly with college plans and question the wisdom of pursuing a BFA program. If she says she wants to eat, breathe, and sleep theater stuff, and wants to go for it, I would back her up. She has nothing to lose going for it. She still will get a college degree. I would not discourage it if it were for the "right" reasons. At the same time, you can discuss the realities of this kind of choice. I would not discourage her due to those but make sure she also is aware of the difficult path ahead and then if she wants to go full steam, she knows what she is getting into. Very few become famous by it. But many do make a life on the stage. If you love it, you can't live without it.

Susan

By Mtjack (Mtjack) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 09:28 am: Edit

Lfill

I'd like to add one more point to the other thoughtful responses to your questions. In the end the MT application and audition process will work things out. Part of the selection process must include an assessment of the applicants motivations and an assessment of the applicants work ethic and thus an assessment of the likelihood of completion of the program. My D is a freshman MT at Ithaca. Like artsymom's D she simply wants to be on stage, anywhere. SHe is already looking for a large cardboard box to live in once she goes to NYC. She assures me that it will be a really nice box.

By Catherdingmom (Catherdingmom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:27 am: Edit

Fosselover, if you have the time and inclination, I would love to read a brief report of your visits. You have some schools on your list that I know little about. My son hopes to pursue a straight theatre degree (as opposed to musical theatre), but the general atmosphere on campus should be the same regardless of the program. Hope you have an informative and fun trip!

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:26 am: Edit

Catherdingmom--We are scheduling for November, so it will be some time. But I will be sure to keep everyone posted. Most of the schools that offer MT also offer straight theater, so observations may apply. We are actually doing 2 trips so it will be crazy. We would go sooner, but the HS production of "Bang, Bang You're Dead" is the first week of Nov. and D has a dance concert end of Oct. Scheduling is the biggest nightmare for all of us.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:28 am: Edit

A word in regard to CCM-- our freshman is loving it! The facilities are impressive, as are the inspiring and dedicated faculty members. Additionally, the faculty to student ratio is excellent.

The program is challenging and everything we had hoped a BFA/MT program would be. This is training at it's best, and we are so pleased.

Proud parent of a Bearcat!

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Congratulations on your D arriving at her final list! I'm impressed that her apps will start going out this week when she's just now finalized her choices. Looks like she'll have a busy week! Are the schools she's chosen rolling admissions? I'm curious because it's still a little early to get those apps out, and also curious if she's scheduled auditions yet. You're in for a lot of travelling if she's going to visit all now and then again for auditions! Good luck!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Mnmom...SOOO glad to hear your son is loving CCM. What a relief to know he's in the right place at the right time for him. Hope all continues to go well.

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 02:21 pm: Edit

FROZEN - I WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I LIVE VERY CLOSE TO THOUSAND OAKS, AND WHILE I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF JB, IT SOUNDS WAY TOO FAMILIAR TO JRP (JOHN ROBERT POWERS) AND MAY EVEN BE THE SAME GROUP. WHEN MY DAUGHTER WAS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, THEY CALLED EVERYONE IN HER CLASS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER AND SAID THE PERSON ON THE LIST BEFORE THEM RECOMMENDED THAT THEY CALL HER/HIM SINCE THEY BELIEVED THEY WERE A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR MODELING/ACTING, ETC. I KNOW A FRIEND OF MY D'S THAT ACTUALLY DID GO AND WASTED 2 YEARS AND LOTS OF MONEY. PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT SURE THAT THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE, BUT THEY WERE ALSO IN THOUSAND OAKS. BE CAREFUL AND HAVE THEM CHECKED OUT.

THEATERMOM - YOU WERE MISSED AND IT'S GOOD TO HEAR YOU ARE UP AND RUNNING!

LAMOM - THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT AS FAR AS HOW STRESSFUL THIS WAS FOR YOU LAST YEAR FOR YOUR SON. IT HELPS TO HEAR THAT WE ARE NOT ALONE. WE SEEMED TO GET A LOT ACCOMPLISHED THIS WEEKEND AS FAR AS APPLICATIONS AND ESSAYS GO.

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 03:31 pm: Edit

Mtjack - Could you share some insights on Ithaca from your D? Ithaca is on our list of applications and I'd love to hear more about the program. Thanks.

By Fosselover (Fosselover) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Alwaysamom--Well she has had four on the list for over a month, so she has been working on them. Most are rolling admissions. Audition scheduling will be the next item on the list, but some won't schedule until the application has been submitted. Since the timing for auditions is critical so as to not conflict with HS performances, we want to get them in ASAP. At this point it appears that she will be trying to schedule 2 auditions for one weekend in January and 3 auditions for 3 weekends in Feb. I'm hoping we can combine at least 2 for the same weekend. She has dance concerts the end of January, Spring Musical the end of Feb. and then festivals all of March. So.... The expense is high traveling from S. Calif, but compared to all the money already invested and the cost of college. At least I know where all my vacation time from work is going!!!

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Susan,

I forgot to mention that I asked my D if she met your D when she was at UMich and she said she met her briefly at the Saturday night party but did not have an opportunity to talk much with her. Her first name begins with an S as well, yes?

Also, is the boy who is so happy at UMich who shares your D's agent a freshman? If so, I think I know who you mean. He was in the National Tour of Sound of Music and is a total sweetie. My D says her whole class is incredibly talented and she feels very lucky to be amongst them.

Catsmom
Thanks for the welcome back. Glad to hear that the app process seems to be going well. You know I'm here if I can do anything to help! Sometimes it's just the getting started that is the hardest part.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 05:18 pm: Edit

Frozenchose, sorry that I did not respond to your earlier post. I read so many posts at once!

There is a chance I may talk to my brother's family in Anchorage in a couple days as I am sure they will call to wish my D a happy 16th birthday. I will ask if she goes to WEST and if she knows your son from forensics competitions.

As far as the "agent" or "training program" you asked about in your post....I have never heard of them. However, I would be VERY wary of signing on to that sort of thing. You were asking me I think because I had mentioned at some point that my D has an agent in NYC. The situation is nothing like the link you gave. Securing an agent does NOT cost money. There are NO fees. The agent represents you and gets a percentage of the fees you are paid IF you are contracted for work (cast), usually 10%. The program you provided a link toward, tries to assure you that there are no fees for getting their "agents" but indeed there ARE fees as they are making you take THEIR training, THEIR photos, etc. etc. etc. There is a lot of literature out there about these sorts of, sorry to say, often referred to as "scams". If you get a regular agent, in say, NYC or LA, there are no required training programs or photo shoots. Sure, you should have professional headshots taken (anyone auditioning at certain levels needs those, as well as for college auditions) but the agent does not make you go to a certain photographer and so on. Sure you need training but I think your son gets various acting, voice or dance training locally and then in his summer programs. You don't normally do that through these so called "agents" who sound like they are signing kids up left and right and promising the world. Usually getting an agent does not involve competitions and things like that.

If your son wants more training, I would look into training opportunities but not associated with these outfits. If he wants an agent in LA or NYC (hard to do from Alaska), then there are ways to try to get representation but I would advise you against signing onto these outfits that ask for money with the hope of being represented and sent out on auditions. Instead, they hold some kind of "event" where agents may come and watch. Agents themselves do not hold such events. They submit you for auditions, if they sign you on. And sometimes there is not a contract with the agent but it is freelance.

Hope that helps even though I hate to be a downer and tend to be an upbeat person, but I want you to be cautious and ASK around to many people about this. I have read of these T YPES of programs before and everyone who knows about the field has advised against them. I think they tend to feed on people's dreams.

Susan

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Notarebel just ordered a new thread. Here ya go ... Part 29

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:34 pm: Edit

I have a question that doesn't really belong here. I'm sorry! But I can't figure out where to ask it. Can someone answer it or give me a clue where to ask it?

My D's high school currently does not accept online/correspondence coursework from outside the state of CA (I guess they want all the $ to stay in the state), but they are about the only high school to feel this way. If my D was to take an IU or BYU course in something extra that she doesn't need to graduate, like psychology, for example, would that be a good thing on her college resume (initiative, hardworking, outside interests), a bad thing (doesn't play by the rules, not a team player, college might consider her a "transfer" student, not a first-time freshman), or neutral (who cares?)???

I think she's going to be stuck taking Health through the University of California online course which meets 5xweek (not weekends) because of her school's idiotic rules. She's not even sure she wants to take any more outside courses after that (she'll be into senior year at that point), but if she does still want to, would it be wise when it's not authorized by her high school?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, since your D does not need the outside courses to graduate at her high school, it is not imperative that they appear on her transcript for high school credits. If your school will not accept those credits or mark them down for the record on her transcript, all is not lost. When it comes time to mail in her school packet (transcript, guidance counselor report, teacher recommendations, and school profile) to colleges, they (or you) can attach documentation of completed coursework elsewhere. As far as colleges knowing what your daughter took, that solves that issue.

As to whether taking outside courses such as distance learning or college courses and if these would look good on the college resume.....I would not do these to look good in and of itself, BUT if your daughter really wants to go beyond the curriculum offered at your school for various reasons, and takes a course long distance or at a local college, for sure it is a strong thing, definitely not negative at ALL. It shows her challenging herself and going beyond.

My older daughter, for instance, took second year Calculus last year (senior year) via a long distance course with Johns Hopkins CTY, as she had exceeded the school's math curriculum having accelerated and finished AP Calculus in junior year which is as high as our curriculum goes here. She did this because she wanted to continue on in math but from a college standpoint, it does indicate challenging oneself further to learn. It so happens that her school was willing to put the course on her transcript, record the grade she received and gave credit. She truly did not need the credit but it seemed easiest to have all her courses on one document. Had they not been willing to do this (like is the case at your school), she could have attached a course description and final evaluation documentation. Your D could do this as it is not like she NEEDS the credits from her school, just wants to let colleges know what she took academically. My kids have also done supervised indep. studies within the school, gotten graded and received credit, also recorded on the transcript. My younger D this year is doing Calculus AP that way as it does not fit into her schedule.

Speaking of long distance courses, we just had the only one younger D ever took added on her transcript this week. She took a long distance college level essay writing course via Johns Hopkins CTY in 8th grade and again, she does not need any more English credits to graduate but it seemed easier to have it on the transcript rather than attach another document. I realize I just mentioned 8th grade but my D took many HS courses while in middle school (same facility) for high school credit and THOSE courses appear on her transcript for her high school credits, and in fact, played a part in her graduating a year early. The long distance course is just one more English, not that she needed it on there but since she did take it, it seemed worth noting. She did not take it with the hope of getting credit or to get into college. She took it at the time as part of a plan to find academic challenges that she needed, which included taking courses at the high school and this college level long distance writing course. The thought of graduating early was never discussed back then.

In any case, yes, if your D WANTS to take courses beyond her high school, it is a positive thing on one's record and if it can't be recorded on her transcript, then documentation/evaluation from those courses should be attached.

Susan
PS, I am behind in email, sorry, owe you one badly.

By Mtjack (Mtjack) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 09:15 am: Edit

Lynnm

My D of course loves Ithaca, her one complaint is sleep deprivation. The 08 class is 14, 7 boys, 7 girls. My D tells me that they are all different "types" they sound and look different, so she does not feel like she is in competition with them. The classes are demanding and leave little time for mingling with non theatre students. That seems to be the norm in all such programs. In short MT at Ithaca is what she had hoped it would be. I would give more details if I had them.