|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:13 pm: Edit|
I am looking for colleges to consider, and I am thinking of majoring in Aerospace engineering, or engineering dealing with defense, but I might also like to pursue a business major instead. I am not sure which one I want.
What schools are great in both engineering and business, at the undergrad level?
Is there a way I can decide between these two careers? Can anyone guide me to a resource that would help me decide?
Also, Do business majors earn more money in the long run, or vice versa?
|By Shyboy13 (Shyboy13) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:22 pm: Edit|
I was recently in a graduate seminar where the speaker said that engineers make a lot of money to start off but their wages increase at a decreasing rate. Business majors, however, make less in the beginning but experience a faster (higher) rate of wage growth.
Generally, money should not a problem for either of these graduates as they tend to be among the highest paid relative to people in other majors.
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:29 pm: Edit|
For those two majors, you have several excellent choices:
#2 Michigan-Ann Arbor
#4 Illinois-Urbana Champaign
#5 Purdue University-West Lafayette
CMU, Wisconsin-Madison and Cal-Berkeley are excellent in Engineering and Business, but they aren't that good in Aerospace Engineering.
|By Sammywu (Sammywu) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:35 pm: Edit|
CMU doesn't have Aero Engr
I would say USC, Cornell, Upenn
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit|
Cornell does not have a well established Business School. USC is not bad at all. Penn is not really that good in Engineering.
|By Pookdogg (Pookdogg) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:58 pm: Edit|
UC Berkeley...the aero eng. isn't spectacular, but it's not bad, either. And since you're in-state, you can't get much metaphorical bang for your buck.
Although my Cal pride is telling me not to say so, I would also highly recommend MIT. Not only is it the best tech school around (CalTech and India Tech advocates, humor me here), the Sloan School in MIT is right up there with Penn's Wharton and Berkeley's Haas schools. Bonne chance.
|By Donutlover (Donutlover) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:58 pm: Edit|
|By Alan5 (Alan5) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 05:03 pm: Edit|
If you want to work in the aerodefense industry go to the websites of the leading defense contractors like Raytheon, Lockheed, Boeing etc. to deterimine which schools they hire from.
|By Lauraanne (Lauraanne) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 05:22 pm: Edit|
Check out Penn's Management and Technology program. True, Penn isn't the best for engineering, but the program allows you to graduate with a business and engineering degree.
|By Jcm525 (Jcm525) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 09:47 pm: Edit|
University of MIchigan Ann Arbor. US News undergrad rankings: 3rd in Aerospace Engineering (7th in Engineering overall) and tied w/ Berkeley for 3rd in undergrad business. A lot of above aerospace companies recruit at U of Michigan, and from what I've heard it's a great college experience. Which majors make the most money in the long run? Well, engineering majors with MBA's; they are gold.
|By Shyboy13 (Shyboy13) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:22 pm: Edit|
Cal and USC are two very good choices.
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:17 pm: Edit|
Thanks alot for the info. These boards are more active than the SAT boards.
Ya, shyboy that makes sense because engineers have a skill thats highly valuable once out of college, but in business you need experience.
From what has been said, I am considering Berkley, Michigan, MIT, USC, Texas Austin, Marlyand, Purdue, IUC, Penn, & CMU. I think MIT is a little too high up to get into. I havent taken the SATs or PSATs yet, but I got 720 and a 660 on world history and biology SAT IIs, and 3.9-4.0 uw for sophomore year.
I heard for USC, only the graduate not the undergrad engineering, is terrific. Is this true? One of my parents is a marine biologist professor at USC.
So it is possible to do a duel major, in engineering and business, in all the schools listed above, or only Penn? Is there a great amount of work to do both? Last Question: Is there that much of a need for people in today's job market that have both majors?
Edit: I found this in a PR article, "Co-ops are usually held by engineering or business students (but can also be held by those in other fields), and they usually take place during both the summer and the school year." Thats great news to my ears.
|By Shyboy13 (Shyboy13) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 03:14 pm: Edit|
I know that USC is very friendly when it comes to double majoring. However, business is a very competitive major at SC and ANY engineering program is difficult and has a lot of requirements. Further, I really dont know of any double major restrictions for these two. As for the other schools, you would have to visit the website or call or email the school to find out. Truthfully, both are high paying and perhaps difficult so it may be better to only do one. The best advice so far, and I know its a road frequently traveled, is to major in engineering and get an MBA later. Think about it! A ton of money right after college then a double ton of money a few years later.
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 04:10 pm: Edit|
Just to clarify:
To get an MBA you must go to business school correct? For three years?
For being an engineer, you only need the first 4 years of colllege, or do you need more?
|By Shyboy13 (Shyboy13) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 04:59 pm: Edit|
MBA ~ 2 years
Engineer: Undergrad degree = 4 years.
Generally, you must work a few years after you graduate to get into B-school.
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit|
You dont need to major in business to go to business school, but its just easier and better right?
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:26 pm: Edit|
Not really. Actually, most MBA programs prefer Econ or Engineering majors to Business majors.
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:14 pm: Edit|
Why would they prefer Engineering and Econ over business as a precursor to business school? Seems to me like saying that an Engineering program would weigh verbal scores over math scores; Doesnt make sense.
Please when you are hyping a school, please promulgate if you go to that school or not, as your enrollment in any given school tends to highly bias your opinion in the school's favor.
Are all your suggestions for engineering geared towards the undergraduate school?
USC is good on one hand that it seems to be a good fit, its close, and that I have been there and worked there during a summer, and I like the campus, although it is in the middle of the more crime-ridden parts of LA.
The bad thing is that its a little too close to home, and I have a parent working there.
Anyone know any good books for looking at engineering colleges, namely undergraduates, and undergraduate business schools.
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:12 am: Edit|
I attended the University of Michigan and Cornell University. I care nothing for Cornell, but I admit to being biased when it comes to Michigan. Still, the rankings I offer are not my own. According to the US News and World Report, Michigan is #3 in Undergraduate Business and #3 in undergraduate Aerospace Engineering.
MIT is #2 in undergraduate Business and #1 in Aerospace Engineering.
The following universities all offer excellent programs in undergraduate Business and Aerospace Engineering:
However, MIT and Michigan would be my top 2 choices, if you really want both Business and Engineering. But I must warn you, both progrsams are so demanding, you will most likely end up concentrating in just one. I would personally major in Eingeering over Business. If that be the case, Stanford is also awesome in Aerospace Engineering, as are Princeton, Cornell and Georgia Tech.
As for the reason why MBA programs prefer Engineers and Social Science majors? Who knows?
Here's a look at the student profile at Kellogg (Northwestern University's top ranked MBA program).
As you can see, at Kellogg, 40% of the entering class majored in Engineering and 40% majored in Econ and other Social Sciences. Only 20% majored in Business and more people major in Business than in either the Social Sciences or Engineering.
Michigan's MBA program is also one of the top 10.
Here too you have more Engineerings and Social Science majors (32% and 45% respectively) than Business Majors (19%).
Other top programs don't really post that information, but I would be surprised if other schools had much different looking profiles.
|By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit|
check out Lehigh.. great business and engineering plus cross enrollment is encouraged
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 06:48 pm: Edit|
I checked out Michigan and it seems terrific. It seems kind of undervalued, considering its quality and rankings, even though rankings dont mean much. 3rd best in two categories that I want, yet a 53% acceptance rate. Thats awesome. I checked in the Fiske Book of Colleges, and it gave it 5/5 (half scores are possible, such as a 4.5) for academics. It said IUC is a half step behind it. Or maybe I am not skeptical enough. For my purposes, the only school better is MIT.
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit|
Michigan's achilles heel is its acceptance rate. But it is still difficult to get in, especially for out of staters. If you have less than a 3.7 unweighed GPA and less than a 1300 on your SATs, chances are, you won't get in. But there are many benefits to applying to Michigan.
1) If you apply early (and if you want to improve your chances, you must apply by the end of September at the latest), you get an answer before Christmas. Imagine how soothing it is to know that you got into one of the nation's top 15 research universities 5 months before other universities answer you.
2) It is indeed easier to get into than other top 15 research universities.
And you should visit Ann Arbor if you get a chance. It is a unique and fun little city.
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 07:52 pm: Edit|
A high acceptance rate in this case is a great thing. I think I have a cousin who goes to University of Michigan, or some other Michigan college. Just curious, does it still do affirmative action?
Definitely a ED candidate.
What specific business major is best to go with the aerospace major? There is a list of them here: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/rankbusiness_brief.php
I am guessing productions / operations movement.
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 01:44 am: Edit|
Michigan is still very committed to diversity, but was forced to change its admissions equation when the Supreme court ruled it unconstitutional. Still, underrepresented minorities will be given fair consideration.
Michigan does not have ED or EA options because of the nature of its admissions policy. What I meant is that you need to submit your application early because Michigan has rolling admissions (first come, first serve) for all of its applicants. So you can apply to MIT or Stanford (if you decide not to study Business afterall) ED/EA and just make sure you send your application to Michigan early.
As for what Business field to study, I would pick either Poroduction/Operations, Supply Chain, General Management or Finance. Each of those is highly respected. It really boils down to want you want to do. One thig you may wish to consider is majoring in Aerospace Engineering only while maybe taking a few courses of accounting and finance at the Business school. Then work for a few years and then return to Business school for an MBA. I guess what I am trying to say is that you should really think hard before majoring in Business at the undergraduate level. Let me tell you, it will take you 5 years of serious studying to double major in Engineering and Business, and you may not benefit entirely from such a double major. Taking a few select courses in the Business school while focusing on Aerospace Engineering may serve you best.
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 02:09 am: Edit|
Thanks for the reply.
It seems like UM has somewhat of a duality. I mentioned to my friend I was looking at it, and he instantly said, "Dude, if its the University of Michigan I'm thinkin of, I know a friend who goes there, and it has the highest amount of alcohol per head there." I've seen clips on news showing like riots/protests with UM students. Its also known as has been said as a great research facility.
The lack of an ED is kinda depressing. I see people with awesome credentials on this site, and they consider themselves too lowly for schools like MIT, Stanford, and other great schools.
Well, I guess I will just focus on aerospace, but lots of things will happen before any solid decision is made, but I'll keep skimmin the forums in general.
I was looking at the Freshman profile, and I could only glean one basic requirement, the average score, calculated by averaging the 25th and 75th percentile, for the verbal and math sections. I know this is not mathematically correct, but it is the closes I can get. Average verbal is 635, and average math is 670. My goal is at least the following: a 690 verbal, and a 730 math. http://www.umich.edu/~oapainfo/TABLES/FR_Prof.html
Do you know specific instances where both engineering and an MBA would be appropiate? A position where you are an engineer, yet manage others, to lead a group, and to eventually become a supervisor/executive? To be an intermediary between the financial types and the engineers?
Well at worst, if I cannot handle engineering I will switch to business.
Thanks for the help Alexandre.
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 03:25 am: Edit|
Michigan certainly has a duality about it...so do most great universities. Alcohol is availlable, but no more than at MIT, Amherst, Williams, Harvard or Cornell.
As for the average scores at Michigan, don't let them fool you. The averages you saw were for the entire university. That includes the schools of Kinesiology, Nursing, Natural Resources and Enviornment, Music and Art and Design and in-state students. Although those schools are selective, the average test scores are below 1200 and those students at those 5 colleges make up 20% of the student body. The mean SAT scores for the Schools of Engineering and Arts and Sciences is 1340. Again, that's including in-state students. The mean SAT for out of state students entering the schools of Engineering and Arts and Sciences is 1370. But if you can get a 1420 as you indicated above, you have a very reasonable shot at Michigan. In fact, a score of 1350 should be just fine if you apply early enough.
As for Engineering and MBA, they are a perfect marriage! My cousing majored in Mechanical Engineering at Michigan, graduated with a 3.5 GPA, worked for Ford for 4 years and now is getting his MBA at Northwestern's highly regarded Kellogg school of management, arguably the #1 graduate Business school in the US.
It is a misconception that one must major in Business to get into a top MBA program. Actually, if you look at what top MBA students and top MBA programs majored in, only 15-25% of those students majored in Business. Over 20% of them majored in Engineering.
Here are a few examples of class profiles at top 10 MBA programs. As you can see, Engineers hold their own:
|By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 04:51 am: Edit|
I must make it clear that the 5 schools I mentioned above (Kinesiology, Nursing, Natural Reosurces and Evironment, Music and Art) are not easy to get into. In fact, the school of Music may be the most selective of all Michigan's colleges (acceptance rate under 10%). But the students who get admitted into those programs have different profiles. 3.5 students with 1100 on their SATs are not uncommon at those colleges, but they also happen to have incredible gifts in music or art etc...
|By Jonw222 (Jonw222) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 11:59 am: Edit|
If you are looking to go into engineering, business, or any field, I would definitely try to talk to someone in the field. This isn't meant to discourage anyone from working in a particular field or anything, just to know the reality of hirings, etc. that cannot be garnered from college bulletins or magazines that always play up how much money and how well engineers do at the beginning but never disclose the reality of the situation.
|By Xgamerx13 (Xgamerx13) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 02:24 pm: Edit|
There was a guy at my synagogue who worked for TRW or Northrop Grumman, and I spoke to him from time to time, but he left to live in Israel.
Alexandre, do you know the freshman profile of the school of engineering, as it is likely vastly different from the whole school together.
On a side note, someone told me that if you apply to a college for an unpopular major or department, then you have better choices, then afterwards you switch to the major you truly desire. I do not think I would resort to using this scheme even if it was not true.
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