Colleges For Musical Theater Major --- Part 23





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Discus: College Search and Selection: August 2004 Archive: Colleges For Musical Theater Major --- Part 23
By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 09:39 pm: Edit

CONTINUED FROM PART 22.

Before posting, please take a look at the FAQ, as it gives a brief summary of some of the topics that come up a lot on this thread, the big list of schools, and help for searching for a particular topic within the thread. The FAQ was recently updated with thoughts on the differences between BA and BFA programs.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Shauna,

Whenever you get a chance and are updating info on the FAQ, you might add that Drake is a non-audition school.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 11:06 pm: Edit

Has anyone visited Drake? Dramamama, did you go there? If so, can you share the findings? :)
Thanks!

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 09:45 am: Edit

Mtmommy,

We never visited Drake. It was a safety for my daughter and although she was accepted we never did get to visit. Therefore, I have little information on the program.

By Ilmomsk (Ilmomsk) on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 10:04 pm: Edit

D is still at Cherubs, but her voice is giving out. Can anyone from the midwest say anything about whether your kids are already experiencing seasonal allergies w/ accompanying voice hoarseness? If so, what are you doing about it? My D has been advised to see an ENT as it could be allergy-related (or even acid reflux) instead of viral (though her eyes are kind of red and weepy), and supposedly the specialist can look at your vocal chords and tell which. Also, Anyone been to visit Lawrence? They don't have MT BFA or concentration, but it looks kind of interesting. PS- Just read that Lara Teeter is going to Shenandoah for MT-he was at NW and LIght Opera Works.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 11:42 am: Edit

My daughter struggled with allergies for several seasons. After reauditioning this year and getting accepted, she decided to go through the series of allergy shots. She is now undergoing this process and while it does take time, the results thus far have been well worth it. This is the first spring and summer in about 3-4 that she has not lost her voice. (By the way we are not from the midwest but from the east) She will continue the shots at U Arts in the fall. She had done the allergy testing a while ago and decided to try the nasal sprays and medicines first. The shots are proving much more effective.

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 05:26 pm: Edit

From the Midwest and yes it USED to be, both my D and I had allergies in Spring, late Summer & early Fall that affected our voices/heads/throats.

Haven't had a problem with allergies [including cats-my D had a problem with that too] and haven't even been sick since 1997 when we started taking a nutritional supplement called OPC-3 [it's in liquid form-I hate pills].

It was a life saver for me since the medications [steroid inhalers] had gotten so expensive and were losing their effectiveness to the point of my doc wanting to do sinus surgery [on me, D wasn't as bad yet but was looking to mirror my medical history]. This stuff also helps keep up the immune system [key with hectic sleep-deprived theatre schedules]

E-mail me direct if you want to find out more.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Ilmomsk, I have chronic sinusitis resulting in almost total blockage of the nasal cavities, exacerbated by allergies to dust. We've tried nearly everything, but nothing works 100% and I absolutely refuse to have an operation for fear of messing up my voice. However, I have found that the more voice lessons I have and the better technique I learn, the less my sinuses bother me. In fact, I sometimes sing better when I am sick as the resonance is better and I am forced to sing correctly (not hold with the throat, tongue, jaw, etc.). After taking lessons for over a year, I still have chronic sinusitis but do not take any medication for it whatsoever as it no longer affects my voice. Go figure! So I guess what I am trying to say is take a look at what your daughter's teachers are telling her about her problem. If they pass the test, read on...:)

I'm not sure of the specifics of your daughters' problem (my problem was less with hoarseness and more with a constant nasal drip), but I know that there are a couple things that did alleviate my condition somewhat. One is nosesprays (Flonase, etc.) and allergy medications like Clarinex, although I took that a long time ago, and it had some disagreeable side affect so I stopped taking it, but I can't remember what it was.

Also, I have heard amazing things about nasal irrigation. Yes, I realize it sounds really odd, but had my voice not started improving, I would have started doing this. It's cheap and - once you get the hang of it - easy.

Hope this helps some!

Also, to everyone...I'm leaving for UNT in a week and a half! I'm quite excited, but I'm not sure I'm going to have much Internet access for awhile. I'm planning on getting a computer from the money I won through California's Junior Miss, but it has to be approved, and it won't be approved for a few weeks at the soonest. Then I have to actually buy it...so I might not have a consistent way to access the Internet for quite sometime (plus taking about ten million classes!). I will update the FAQ as much as I can, but I can't guarantee that I will be on to link from thread to thread and such. It's pretty simple to learn to do; if anyone wants me to show them (or already knows how), feel free to take over the linking duties. :)

Thanks all!

Shauna

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:39 am: Edit

Shauna,
I'm sure you'll be hearing from lots of people who have benefited from your many contributions to this discussion where your regular presence will be sorely missed, not to mention your "mad HTML skills" (I just love repeating that!!....) Just wanted to send my personal thanks and best wishes for every success as you deserve it. Keep in touch as you can and knock 'em dead at UNT. Break a leg girl!!

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 08:05 am: Edit

Shauna:

I second Theatermom's thanks and good wishes. Where would we be without you?

About your access to the Internet: hs students may not know that almost all colleges maintain labs with computers which are accessible to students. UNT has fourteen (!) including one in the Music building and one (in the library) which is open 24 hours. Here's the link:

http://www.gal.unt.edu/locLabs/index.html

So I don't think you'll have any trouble accessing the web; and even though having your own computer would be more convenient, it isn't a necessity. But that doesn't mean you should be maintaining this thread, tempting as that may be for us! You're absolutely right, you need to be focussed on your classes.

My very best wishes to you, Shauna. I have no doubt whatsoever about your success at UNT and in whatever you do!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 11:36 am: Edit

Shauna--
Ditto all the above. You're a fantastic person and have what it takes to succeed in the "biz" and in life, not to mention college. Don't worry about us here on the net, but when you get a chance we'll be waiting to hear all about UNT!

By Ilmomsk (Ilmomsk) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Shauna, et.al-
I just got back from taking my daughter to the ENT. He looked at her vocal chords with that scope tube thing-y down her nose, and said it looks like she has a bit of acid reflux (called LPR.) But that her chords otherwise looked okay. Joy! So, now she is on Clarinex, Patenol eye drops, Nexium (and maybe Pepcid), and maybe will need steroids on Wed if not better for her show! She may even have a virus on top of the allergies.
Her eyes are better with the Patenol-
doesn't seem now like it was
really conjunctitivis. Her show is Friday the 13th (go figure.) She is very frustrated because she can't sing nearly like usual.
Aspring MT kids: you must get your rest. Don't abuse your voices staying up late, talking, laughing, singing without proper warm ups.
And don't eat late at night in the dorms- the acid can build up.
Thanks for everyone's comments- you are great, and Shauna, you are the best. I wish my D could be friends with the likes of you. She has met some awesomely nice and talented kids at Cherubs from around the country. Now thinks she'd like private dance as she is too busy this coming senior year to take regular classes! I am already dreading this year of aps and auditions.
Are we ready?
Ilmomsk

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

Shauna, you are truly the life of this m/t posting board. Best of luck in college. I know all the parents here are proud of you and all the work you put into everything you accomplish. Your parents must be doubly proud. We look foward to hearing about your college experiences once you settle in and find your routine.

By Newmtmom (Newmtmom) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Shauna, I have been one of those mostly silent readers but I have to add my thanks to everyone elses. Besides the work you have done for this discussion, I think you are a wonderful example not only to your fellow students but to us parents. I wish you success--however you may define it. And I'll look forward to reading your occasional postings!

To those of you discussing meds and allergies and sinusitis. Have any of you considered looking into homeopathy, herbal remedies and or chinese medicine. When I start seeing these lists of medications, a warning buzzer goes off in my head. Alopathic (western) medicine does some amazing and wonderful stuff--especially when we are talking about life and death situations. However, there are often serious side effects that result in more prescribed medications. I don't know very much about alternative approaches except that if you go to a knowledgeable practitioner, they might be able to help and will almost certainly not harm you. (Most of the well publicized deaths due to herbal remedies have involved people who are self-medicating.) Anyway, I know a number of people who have very successfully treated allergies and stuff like that by consulting a homeopath. Diet is another thing. For example, lots of people have sensitivites to soy--an item that is in most processed foods.

By 5pants (5pants) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Shauna, Best wishes to you. My guys will be leaving in a 1 1/2 weeks also for Webster. We would love to hear how college unfolds for you...hopefully you will obtain access to the internet to keep us posted.

Yes, allergies are kicking up...the air is a bit dry. Voices are fine, but skin allergies are acting up which doesn't usually happen until cold weather.

Ilmomsk, thank you for the sound advice to the soon-to-be MT students in regards to general health for voices and etc. All advice heard but reiterated from additional sources helps immensely.

Someone mentioned earlier about listening to CDs and epecially those Cabaret singers in order to come up with new & original material for auditions. I would like to suggest tuning into an internet based radio station which airs showtunes exclusively. There is one based out of LA which I believe is called "Theatre Limited"...something like that. They aire oldies and rather recent broadway and off broadway tunes...a nice resource for songs.

Thanks a bunch to all of you....we couldn't have made it without this thread's help.

5PANTS (Sue)

By Nickdad (Nickdad) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Ilmom: Do you mean that Lara Teeter is going to teach at Shenadoah?

I know he graduated from Oklahoma City University..their first Tony nominee!

By Ilmomsk (Ilmomsk) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Yes, I just read that he will be chairing the MT dept at Shenandoah U in Winchester, VA. Apparently he has family from that Blue Ridge Mountains area. He will be an associate professor and hold an Endowed Chair, and will be directing the Shenandoah Summer Theater. That is what I read, anyhow.
Ilmomsk

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Good luck Shauna. We will all be anxious to hear from you!! You have been such a wonderful help and support to everyone on this board...and for all those who will follow.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 10:59 pm: Edit

I'm not sure how much time I'm going to have later on, so I'm going to write this now...

This past year has been quite an experience for me. There have been a lot of ups, downs, and in-betweens, and I have discovered a lot about myself and about me as a performer...simply because of a few auditions! It probably seems like a relatively routine occurence for someone in the theatre world, but not for me. It's been a year of learning, most of all.

I owe so much to all the wonderful people on this board. I don't know if all of you realize just how much your support meant to me; this board was literally my lifeline throughout these auditions. I went through this process on my own; my parents are not well-versed in this level of theatre, they were going through a difficult time and none of my friends' college application process was anything like mine. I often felt like this was the only place where people really understood what I was going through and where I would not be judged for my feelings of confusion, disappointment, and anxiety. The advice, comfort, and wisdom I have found here have helped me so much, and I will not forget everyone's kindness.

Thank you for the well-wishes and the kind words. To be honest, I'm not sure if I'm entirely deserving of the latter, but I hope that there is a way that I can help other people going through this process as much as everyone here has helped me.

This is one of the most amazing and helpful groups of people I have ever had the fortune to come across. This isn't a goodbye, as I will be on here as much as time allows. How could I not?

Thank you all so much for everything.

Shauna

By Blinkeve1826 (Blinkeve1826) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 01:54 am: Edit

Hello everyone...
I realize this thread has been going on for over two years now, and I've glanced at the thread a few times, but never felt compelled to post anything, seeing as many of my questions were being answered anyway. But now I have a question for you. Two, actually. I'll introduce myself first, though. I'm Melanie, and I'll be a senior this fall. Another reason as to why I haven't posted here before is that I'm not looking to study musical theatre, necessarily, in college, but rather study acting as a major and voice as a minor, or as a double major, depending on the school (I have considered musical theatre at some schools, though.) However, it seems to me that if I have a question regarding acting, college, or voice, or a combination of these, there's no better place to ask. :) Anyway, I'll end my rambling and ask my two questions.

I will be applying to NYU, Boston University, Brandeis, Emerson, and maybe Northwestern (as a major reach), but I need more matches and safeties. My average is a 90 UW (I don't know what my cum. average is weighted, but this year it was a 4.0 W), SAT 1260 (either retaking of taking the ACT), excellent EC's and recommendations, presumably good essays, etc. There are a few things that a potential school for me MUST have. 1) It HAS to be in or very close to (half hour tops) a major city. 2) Even though I'll be majoring in acting (or theatre arts, depending on the school), it has to have a good music program. And 3) I'd prefer no religious affiliation, but if there's a fantastic school out there that has a religious affiliation, I'll consider it (as long as that school doesn't stick the religion down their students' throats). I also don't care THAT much how many productions I would be in--I feel that at this point in my training I need mainly training, so although I'd like to be in productions, I wouldn't be terribly upset if I weren't in a bunch until my junior or senior years. I'd like to know what you all think about the following schools, for someone in my position: University of the Arts (can I take music classes, especially voice, if I major in acting?), Eugene Lang\New School University (I'm confused by their website[s]), Roosevelt University, and Pace University. And what would be some more ideas for match and safety schools for me?

Onto the second part of this excessively long post. (Sorry about the length, being concise has never been one of my strong points...) I've been thinking more about Pace University, and it seems like a good school for me for a few reasons. First of all, it's in NYC, which is my first choice location (for a college and for living in, in general). I grew up on Long Island and have developed quite a love for NYC. Anyway, I'd be eligible for their honors college (requirements are a 90 average, which I have, and a 550 or above on both sections of the SAT, which I exceed), which has a number of perks. According to their site, some of these perks are a $9000-12000 scholarship per year, a laptop, a $1000 stipend in the junior or senior year for research, guaranteed study abroad and internship opportunities, and separate housing if desired. That sounds excellent to me. My dad, who is the least helpful person and hardest to talk to about college or anything, really, said, and I quote "You can go to an easy school and do no work, or you can go to a better school and get a good education". I didn't even bother getting worked up about that ridiculous statement, I just left, because that's how my dad is and I can never get any reasonable advice out of him. My mom is useless as far as colleges go, too...it's just my 9-year-old brother and I, so she's never had to deal with the whole college thing before. Anyway, a close friend of mine, who's going to Northwestern, said he think I'd be just "settling" if I went to a college that was below me, and that I'd get a better education at NYU. Which might be true...but on the other hand, how much debt would I be in? I think the deciding factor in this matter will be how good the theatre department at Pace is. I haven't heard much about it (although I've heard plenty about their business school, which is one of the best in the country apparently), and I was wondering what you all thought about it. One of the things I really liked about it was that, with the music minor (which I would probably take at Pace), students can take voice lessons at Mannes...I think that's outstanding. So how is their theatre department, specifically their acting and musical theatre programs? And would I be "settling" if I went to Pace? I'm willing to work, but I also want to enjoy my college years, have the whole "college experience", and possibly be able to act professionally a bit while in college. It looks very appealing to me, and I could always transfer...I just want to make the right decision.

If there's anything I was unclear about, I apologize, and you can feel free to ask me anything about what I just wrote. I'd appreciate any help I can get. Thanks a lot!

~~Melanie

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 09:15 am: Edit

I don't know enough specifics without doing more research for you, Melanie, and I don't have time today, but for possible safety schools near/around NYC...maybe Wagner, Marymount Manhatten, Hunter? Read their sites and see if they fit your criteria. I know they have theater and are easier to get into than others on your list. Another possibility that is not that far from NYC, is Hartt School at Univ. of Hartford...maybe not a total safety but easier than others on your list.

Susan

By 5pants (5pants) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Yesterday I suggested an internet based radio porgram that plays showtunes...I didn't post the correct title. It is called "Theatrically Challenged". It can be found through Live 365 Internet Radio.

5pants

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 02:14 pm: Edit

RETURN OF THE CMU PRE-COLLEGE PROGRAM. FIRST OF ALL, I REITERATE ALL OF THOSE COMMENTS IN THE PAST THAT THIS PROGRAM IS WELL WORTH THE MONEY, AND IF YOU CAN DO IT, YOU SHOULD. MY DAUGHTER HAS BEEN SLEEPING FOR 3 DAYS SINCE WE GOT HOME. SHE SAID THAT THEY DIDN'T SLEEP FOR 6 WEEKS - SOME STUDYING AND SOME JUST HAVING FUN. I ARRIVED THERE WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND I WAS GOING TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT DAY TO SEE HER, BUT SHE SAID SHE WASN'T FEELING WELL, HER THROAT WAS ON FIRE, AND TO PLEASE BRING HER SOME THROAT COAT TEA. WHEN I GOT TO HER DORM AND HUGGED HER, SHE WAS BURNING UP. TURNS OUT SHE HAD A TEMPERATURE OF 103. I TOLD HER SHE NEEDED TO GO TO SLEEP AND GAVE HER SOME ADVIL.

THE AUDITIONS WERE THE NEXT MORNING (DANCE AT 10:30 AND VOICE AT 2:30). SHE MANAGED TO GET HERSELF TO THE DANCE AUDITIONS AND SAID SHE COULD BARELY LIFT HER ARMS. HER VOICE WAS VERY HOARSE AND WHEN SHE TRIED TO WARM UP HER VOICE, IT WAS VERY SQUEAKY AND HAD NO UPPER REGISTER. SHE WENT ANYWAY TO HER VOICE AUDITION AND ATTEMPTED TO SING. THEY LET HER GET THROUGH HER FIRST SONG AND SHE SAID NOTHING CAME OUT BUT A SQUEAK. GARY KLINE ASKED HER WHAT WAS WRONG, AND SHE TOLD HIM SHE HAD THE FLU. FORTUNATELY HER VOICE COACH, STEPHEN NEELY, WAS IN THERE WITH AS WELL, AND HE TOLD HIM THAT SHE HAS A LOT TO OFFER. HE BASICALLY INVITED HER BACK TO AUDITION IN THE FALL AND SAID SHE SHOULDN'T ATTEMPT TO SING HER 2ND SONG. SHE GOES OVER TO THE PIANO PLAYER TO GET HER MUSIC WHO STANDS UP TO GIVE HER A HUG AND SHE BURSTS INTO TEARS (A BIG NO NO), BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE GOING THROUGH THIS WHOLE 6 WEEKS, YOUR VOICE IS YOUR STRONG POINT, AND WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH TO SING, NOTHING COMES OUT. UNFORTUNATELY, SHE DIDN'T HAVE GARY KLINE FOR ANY CLASSES, SO HE NEVER HEARD HER SING. DON'T KNOW IF STEPHEN NEELY HAS ANY PULL, BUT I ALWAYS BELIEVE THINGS HAPPEN FOR A REASON, SO WE'LL JUST HAVE TO SEE.

THE NEXT DAY SHE HAD HER MONOLOGUES, AND SHE STILL HAD NO VOICE. HOWEVER, SHE WENT AND DID THEM - ONE WAS A COMEDY AND SHE SAID THEY WERE LAUGHING A LOT. OF COURSE SHE SAID SHE DOESN'T KNOW IF THEY WERE LAUGHING AT HER SQUEAKY VOICE OR AT HER COMEDY. SHE THOUGHT THAT THEY WENT WELL AND DECIDED TO JUST HAVE A GOOD TIME WITH THEM SINCE THE STRESS WAS NO LONGER A FACTOR.

FRIDAY NIGHT WE GOT ON THE PLANE, SHE SLEPT THE WHOLE 5 HOURS HOME, AND THEN SLEPT FOR 14 HOURS THAT NIGHT. WHEN SHE FINALLY WOKE UP SHE HAD 18 MISSED CALLS FROM ALL OF HER FRIENDS AT CMU ALL FEELING THE SAME WAY - THAT THEY MISSED EACH OTHER AND WHEN CAN THEY HAVE A REUNION. WHEN I MET THE KIDS AT CMU, I FOUND THEM ALL TO BE EXTREMELY SUPPORTIVE OF EACH OTHER, AND A REALLY GREAT BUNCH OF KIDS. I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT OF THE ONES I MET, I WOULD WELCOME THEM IN MY HOME ANY TIME THEY WANTED TO COME AND VISIT. SHE LOVED CMU (EXCEPT FOR THE FOOD, WHICH THEY RARELY ATE SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THE FOOD, DON'T BOTHER BECAUSE THEY HAVE MANY OTHER OPTIONS). SHE ALSO LOVED PITTSBURGH AND THE EASE OF GETTING AROUND TOWN (REMEMBER WE ARE FROM L.A.). IT REALLY HAS A "COLLEGE TOWN" FEEL AS IT IS ONLY A FEW BLOCKS FROM PITT.

ANYWAY, EXCEPT FOR THE AUDITIONS, THE PROGRAM WAS EXCEPTIONAL IN EVERY WAY AND THE SCHOOL IS EVERYTHING YOU COULD ASK FOR IN A COLLEGE. OF COURSE, THE CHANCES OF GETTING IN ARE SO SLIM, AND I'M SURE THERE ARE MANY MORE OUT THERE THAT ARE JUST AS GOOD - NOW TO START CHECKING THEM OUT.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL, AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEND A THANK YOU TO SHAUNA FOR ALL OF HER HARD WORK.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 07:24 pm: Edit

Melanie,

Don't know if U Arts will allow that but my daughter will be starting there in a few weeks and I will try to find out for you. One of her roommates is a straight acting major so we may be able to get a pretty quick answer for you once school starts.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:21 pm: Edit

Melanie, If you are really interested in the city and getting to know many of the independent theatre programs in NYC, there are all sorts of possibilities. Fordham has a theatre program--the music end has to be pieced together, Eugene Lang, part of the New College has a theatre component, Actors Studio, Pace has a theatre program--small but we know several kids there who have gotten their equity cards, some prof roles and are working at college all under the umbrella of the university there in the heart of NYU without the cost,selectivity, and restrictiveness (they do not permit outside auditions or work during the first 2 years)/ Hofstra in Long Island has a good theatre program. Manhattanville, Concordia in Westchester County are worth researching. Rutgers' Mason Gross School is supposed to be very good. There are many possibilities. Oh, yes, do not overlook SUNY Purchase, also in Westchester.

Finding an acting program and also voice studies does not seem as difficult as getting into the true MT programs. The problem is figuring out if the school will let you sychronize a program out of the two disciplines. It takes some sniffing out. My son found that some schools actually have a war of sorts going on between the voice (Music) department and drama (Theatre ) dept, and trying to mesh together a program between the schools is difficult though on paper it may not be the case. BC is a school that he found in that category. BU appears to have several theatre options and does permit going between the schools.

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:10 pm: Edit

Hi. I have been trying to make my list of schools that I plan to audition for in MT for this upcoming year. I really want to go somewhere for a BFA, but I also want an education. I understand that I need to be trained in my art, but I do want a chance to go to an academic institution, where I will be able to dapple in subjects outside of MT. My passion is MT, but I am also interested in Spanish. My parents initially wanted me to have a back up major/minor (in Spanish), but as we have learned, a major in MT leaves no room for another academic concentration.

I also know that I am talented, and am aware of what my weaknesses are, however I really don't know who I will be competing against. I live in Maine, and there aren't great performing opportunities here. I have read a fair amount of these MT threads and have found that some of the people accepted into the "top" most selective programs already have equity points, attended Performing Arts High Schools (I don't know of any in my state), have extremely professional voice teachers, and perform in like 10 shows a year.

I myself found musical theater at the age of 13. I have always been singing, but I only began taking voice lessons at the age of 11 because a lot of "young trained singers" seemed to have lost their personal flair, if you know what I mean. Also in terms of performing arts classes, my school offers two theater classes (I took both), and a dance class. The dance class was terribly easy even for me, and I am hardly what you could call a dancer. (Basically my school's dance class was a study hall - seniors took it for an easy class, or for a gym or fine arts credit.) Also chorus and music theory classes are offered, but the music theory class is too basic. (ie: What does forte mean...?) and I haven't been able to fit chorus into my busy schedule so I take it as an EC, performing in my school's select choir. And in terms of musical theater, I usually do 2 plays a year, recently going on 3. They take up a ton of time (as you all know), and I need to keep my grades up, work, have weekly piano, dance, and voice lessons, so doing 10 shows a year is virtually impossible for me. Anyway, I know this is a wicked long, probably incredibly boring post, I was just wondering how many people who get into good MT programs are practically already professional, and almost literally, do nothing but MT?

Well. Here are the schools I am currently looking at.

Ithaca, NYU, U.Miami, Illinois Wesleyan, Elon, and Syracuse.

I was wondering if those schools fit what I am looking for ( a BFA but oppiortunities for academics as well, though not a major or a minor in anything outside of the arts.)

Actually, I recently received literature from Illinois Wesleyan which stated an academic minor was possible along with an MT major in 4 years. Could that mean that their program is not top notch?

Also, I am basically a singer who acts and dances (well moves really), and I feel that my best strengths are singing and acting. Regarding my dancing capabilities, I have been told that my stage presense is great and that I move well, but I do not know a ton of steps, and it can take me a little longer to learn steps than the norm, however once I got it, I move as well as the rest of them. I hope my slow learning abilities in dancing don't keep me from getting into any of my schools. Any insight on that?

Okay. I want to audition asap, but I need to improve my SAT scores first. I have a great academic record (8/225 - top 3%), I have a 3.7 gpa unweighted, take the most challenging courses (including APs), but I don't take standardized tests well. Also, the math program at my hs is weak so my math scores were about 120 points lower than my verbals, giving me an 1100 for my first try at the SATs. I plan on taking a course so I can try and break 1200. Do you think my SAT scores would be a huge problem at any of my schools. I would apply now, but I really don't like my 1100, and I feel that it makes me look less intelligent than I really am. I know SATs aren't hugely important, but I am applying to universities, not conservatories, so my grades and scores will count. I am unsure as to whether acceptance to the school and the musical theater program are totally separate or not, I heard that CMU is 80% talent (audition), but I am not looking into that school, so that doesn't really help me. Anyone who has gone through the application & audition processes would be of great help, thanks.

Sorry this post is so long, but I am trying to learn more about my schools from people who aren't trying to promote them (ie: the Dean of the Music or Theater school, etc.) Thanks.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Courtbroadway...
You might take a stab at the ACT too...some students do better on the ACT than the SAT...and with your grades, you may be one of them. It's worth a try!

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Thanks Musicalthtrmom...I have been given that suggestion before, I am still fuzzy about the differences b/w the tests. Could you possibly give me a little insight about that. Also, do you think the schools I am looking at are too worried about standardized test scores? Because ever since I took the SATs for the first time in May, I have felt inhibited in my college search.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

RE: sight reading

What does it mean when it says in the audition description that a sight reading test will be given? What exactly is a test of sight reading? what happens during such a test? Any info greatly appreciated. Thanks all.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Courtbroadway...hi, I live in Vermont and have a kid applying for MT BFA programs this fall too. I do think most who apply have backgrounds in training and productions but are not necessarily professional, equity, or do 10 shows per year! Clearly not everyone! Mine included! My kid has been involved in theater since preschool. She is not equity. We don't have that much theater in VT, as much as elsewhere. She usually is in 2-3 shows during the school year and two in summer. She does take voice and dance, more dance than you. I don't think all applicants are trained as much in dance, only some. From what you describe, you have been doing fairly similar things as far as background, though she has been at it longer but that does not matter that much. So, please do not think you must be a professional actress to apply. We also do not have performing arts high schools in our state. My kid is heavily involved in performing arts and some of it is associated with school and some of it outside the school in the evenings and weekends. She also goes to a summer program out of state. We don't even have theater classes at our school like you do! We do have great performing arts as far as music and also the shows at our school. She is a musician too.

Anyway, when I read your preference to get the professional conservatory style training with some liberal arts, that coincides with my daughter's first choice as well. I wanted to tell you that two schools that balance that pretty well are NYU and UMichigan. Admittedly, your SATs would be safer if higher. Your other stats like grades and rank are very good! Your SATs do not knock you out at those two schools but do make it a bit harder. Those two schools require that you get into the university academically, not just by the audition (whereas some other schools are almost 90% audition and then the academic qualifications are like some minimal threshhold). So, it is harder to get into these two on the academic front than some others. But these two programs do afford you more liberal arts than some of the other ones. These happen to be my D's favorites. Admittedly, she does have higher SATs. But she has a friend who is about to enter Tisch at NYU who had SATs in the 1100s so it is not out of the question. Retaking them is a good idea...do many practice tests using 10 Real SATs first...it does help.

One thing about Ithaca is that you don't have to be strong at dance to get in. My D is applying there though she loves dance and has a lot of training in it. But we know two girls from our rural high school here in VT who got into Ithaca for musical theater who were not dancers, so that is a good choice for you. The other school my D has on her list that is also on yours is Syracuse. That is a good one for you, I think. Given your current SATs, though coupled with your great academic record, might you look into Emerson? Hartt? Penn State? Just a suggestion.

You are on the right track. Do not fret on thinking everyone who gets in does ten shows per year, goes to a performing arts high school, and is professional. Not so. Yes, most have experience, training and talent. Sounds like you do too!

Susan

PS...Don't forget that teen actress, Anna Kendrick, was nominated for a Tony, and has done quite well in this field, and she is from MAINE!

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 09:21 am: Edit

Hi Susan.

Thank you so much, because I was worried about my experience. But I get in as much as possible, and I try to keep my life also slightly normal if you know what I mean. (I don't have any close friends in theater at my school, so none of them really understand how it goes: ie: I missed junior prom because I had a performance of Titanic, and my friends all thought I should have just told the directer I had to miss that show...) Anyway, that didn't have to do with much of anything, just me rambling. Well I sort of have a point, we actors and actresses don't have a lot of time to lead normal lives, and be social, especially in HS.

I am not looking at U. Michigan, because the school doesn't seem to match me well. I am looking at University of Miami, because its BM and BFA programs are praised, and the number of hispanics on campus may help me keep up (not lose) my Spanish. :) Anyway, I thought U. Mich seemed too big (NYU is also large, but based on my college guides I liked it better), and I read that a lot of TAs teach classes. I really want to go somewhere where the professors will know my name (at least in the MT program...) Can you tell me anything about class sizes and how personal the MT program is at U.Mich? If I heard better things about it, it would be a great school to attend. (Lots of Broadway stars once attended U.Mich.)

Thank you so much. My worries have been relieved.

~ Court

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:22 am: Edit

Re: Sightreading

Singer is given a piece of music and a starting pitch, and told - GO! Usually a cappella. Can do it on a neutral syllable (la), on solfege (do, re,mi, etc.) or sometimes on lyrics.

Often combined with it - ear-training exercises - someone plays a pattern of several notes, then you're asked to sing it back. Might play a chord or tone cluster, and be asked to sing back the middle note, or the top note, or the bottom note.

This is where a little training on piano or some instrument is helpful - if you have NONE, try to get a smattering before auditions - even if it's just going back to that recorder of flutophone you probably played in grade school :)

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:25 am: Edit

Court...
a couple of things...
with regards to the difference between the ACT and the SAT, I believe there is a thread or two that may be worth the read on the SAT/ACT Message Board. That would tell you more than I could. I do know that some kids just test better on the ACT than the SAT, and vice versa.

Also...with regards to the U of Miami...there is no dance audition required as part of your admittance. The program there is not terribly large, so you should get the "personal" attention you desire. It seems to be a strong music-based MT program.

Have you looked at Otterbein (near Columbus, OH), or Baldwin-Wallace (near Cleveland, OH)? You might add these two to your search process. Penn State, as Susan suggested, would be a good fit, too, it seems.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:32 am: Edit

Court, Univ of Miami is a good choice for you. My daughter is not interested in it because she does not want to attend college in Florida and has kept her choices to east coast and the northern eastern part of the country. However, her best friend from her summer theater program, who is applying to most of the same schools as my D is, IS applying to U of Miami and in fact is down there now looking at it.

I don't think what you hear about UMichigan applies to the musical theater program at all. In fact, I think my daughter would get MORE personal attention at UMichigan than at NYU/Tisch. At UMichigan, as is true of many BFA programs in musical theater, they only take approximately 20 kids per class. I think most students get into mainstage shows and so forth. It is a very small grouping within a larger university setting. At Tisch, you likely know there are 8 studios. My daughter only wants to go to Cap21, the musical theater studio, not the strictly acting studios. At Cap21, while it is just as selective and difficult to get in as places like UMich's program, it is a bigger program. There are 60 students in Cap per year. These students are broken down into smaller groupings of 20 so in that respect, it is more akin to the size of a group at UMichigan or other programs. But the total number of kids in the program is much larger. They put on many more shows of course, but not every student will be in the mainstage productions or the senior showcase. So, actually as far as size/numbers of students in a class or program, there are less in UMichigan's than in NYU's MT program. You would not have TAs in something like MT at either school. You are correct that many graduates of UMichigan have done very well and some are currently starring on Broadway.

Also I meant to tell you in regard to dance....I know you are a little concerned with having less training in dance as some kids....but at NYU/Tisch, the dance audition is optional for theater applicants. You can choose to do it and enhance your profile, so to speak but it can't count against you as it is not required. My daughter will be doing it because she is a dancer but I am giving you a heads up that you do not have to dance at a Tisch audition if you so choose. So, again, this might be a good option for you. If you get into Cap21, there are dance classes at various levels. My daughter attended two dance classes with a friend currently in the program. Students get placed based on skill and background. She attended two sort of intermediate level dance classes. My D felt that it was not challenging enough and that some kids did not seem to be great dancers but that does not mean she would be placed in those classes as she has extensive training in dance. But I am sharing that observation with you to let you know that some kids in the program will not have the dance background. The main components of that audition will be singing and monologues.

You are right that most peers who are not into theater don't really "get" where you are with all this. My daughter has some local friends who like theater, though none to the degree she does it but they do participate in school shows and such. But the majority of her local friends are not into theater but she just never talks theater with them. However, she goes to a summer theater program out of state (just got back from her seventh summer there) where everyone is extremely passionate about theater, like she is. So, it is like an entirely different set of friends. She likes both sets, home and summer ones, but they are surely quite different. Many of her summer friends are also applying to BFA programs in theater and they were talking of that all summer as well, something she would never talk about with her home friends. In fact, her boyfriend from her summer program, whom she has known for years but lives seven hours away, is visiting us right now and of course the topics are different than with her home friends. They are gonna watch videos of their shows and so forth. So, I know what you are talking about when it comes to friends. And by the way, our annual dance performance for our studio falls every year on the same night as prom!

Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:36 am: Edit

Courtbroadway17,

Let me weigh in on your questions about Michigan because my D will be entering UM this fall as a BFA candidate in MT. When you said that you wanted a school where you could have both conservatory training AND an opportunity to take strong liberal arts courses, perhaps even minor in Spanish, AND have a "regular" college experience, it was as if you were describing the opportunities available to MT's at Michigan. Don't let the overall size of the University frighten you away. As an MT at Michigan, you would be in a freshman class of 20 -25 (my D's class is 24, 14 boys and 10 girls) so your professors most certainly will know your name. The entire School of Music, where MT, Theatre, Vocal Performance, Instrumental Music and the rest of the arts related disciplines are located, is only 1000 students. So you have the best of both worlds - a small, personal program in a large, world class university. I know for certain that there are MT's who even double major in another liberal arts discipline and while it's incredibly intense to do so, they do not discourage you from doing so. A language minor would be absolutely no problem.

So do check out UM further. It's also in one of, if not THE greatest college towns in the country. I know you are from Maine (I'm actually writing this from my summer home in the western mountains of Maine...) and I think you would feel quite at home in Ann Arbor. We're from Philadelphia and I have to say that all the interactions we've had with the people at UM have been so refreshingly pleasant! The Midwest mentality appears to be very different than what we're used to on the East coast. Call the department and talk to them. They are wonderful about answering questions. Soozievt is correct about the academic requirements, but I agree with her assessment that your stats do not put you out of the running. If this info peaks your interest, don't give up before you even start. You also have that desireable "geographic diversity factor" going for you.

Good luck and let us know if we can help further in any way!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:06 am: Edit

Theatermom, I was hoping you would chime in, lol. That is the thing with UMich and NYU, both really allow a student to get conservatory style training and take a bunch of liberal arts. Students could elect a minor in liberal arts as Court may wish to do. Right now, one of the reasons my D likes NYU and UMichigan a lot is that it has this kind of offering of a great conservatory but also some liberal arts. Also I agree that while UMichigan or even NYU are such huge schools, that when a kid is in the musical theater department/major, it is a very small group in this larger setting, so that helps bunches. Let's hope that geographical thing you speak of holds true for a kid from VT too, lol. I think as far as stats, my daughter is fine but I know that getting into UMichigan or NYU is challenging academically and that also sets these schools apart from others on her list. And so it is not a cakewalk to get in academically. I agree that Court has a chance and she should pursue looking into these more in depth. Retaking the SATs can't hurt for her. She is so strong academically that I think she has a chance to pull those scores up into a safer range. The rest of her record academically is good!

Susan

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:17 am: Edit

I am not a huge fan of the city, and I am not sure NYU would be the best place for me. Now that I realize that I want a more traditional college experience, than one in NYC, and now that I know that U.Mich wouldn't be too overwhelming as an MT major, I may look into that school. Also, if I brought my SATs up to the 1200 - 1250 range, do you think I would be okay? I was actually looking at NYU for Steinhardt as it is called a program for singers who act and dance, as opposed to Cap21 (for actors who sing and dance.) Also, I would only want to be offered a spot in Cap21 if I went Tisch, so Steinhardt would be better for me. I was looking at the curriculum for Steinhardt though and it looked almost a little too limiting in acting and dance classes. I want a program where music is emphasized, but it needs great acting, and decent dance as well. Hmmm. I think I will look into U.Mich. I will deal with the TA's for General Ed. in order to have a great college experience in a great college town, and also minor in Spanish and major in a renowned MT program. Can anyone, tell me what the students are like, or tell me about their visit to U.Mich, so I can learn more about it?

Thanks,
Court

By Baymom (Baymom) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Hi Court - Thought I'd chime in on Illinois Wesleyan. My S and I visited and my report is a couple of threads back. Although their program has not been talked about as the "MT Ivies" have on this board, I have to say we were very impressed. The program seems very solid with a good balance between acting, dance and music. The campus has been virtually rebuilt since 2000 and the facilities are beautiful. The music school is an older building but renovated and seems top notch (65 practice rooms, over 100 pianos between the music school and theater, many of them Steinways, brand new dance studios) They seem to invest in the program. Their optional May term is what helps with getting a minor. You can stay for the month of May and get extra credits. You can study theater in London or NYC, Spanish in Madrid or on campus, opera in Innsbruck, etc. All of these credits count toward your major or your core curriculum. Our tour guide was a sophomore Spanish minor and I was impressed with her fluency (I was a Spanish major in college and talked with her a bit in Spanish). Plus the people were amazingly warm and friendly. We felt like we were the most important people they met that day and they seemed genuinely interested in my S and his background. They have a minimum for application of 1070 on the SAT or 23 on the ACT so that would not be a problem for you. My son has a similar record to yours - strong GPA and class rank but lower tesat scores. Our adcom said his test scores would not be a problem if he had a good audition (it wouldn't prevent him from being admitted). They take 12 for MT every year and audition about 90. So not as bad odds as the Ivies but still a challenge.

By Catherdingmom (Catherdingmom) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Court, About the SAT vs. ACT thing--my son was told that he would probably do better on the SAT because it tends to favor more verbal students whereas science/math students tend to do better on the ACT. (Just someone's opinion.) He thought the ACT was a much harder test--he came out of that school looking like death warmed over. Surprisingly, he actually did better on the ACT. I think it may have been because there is a penalty for wrong answers on the SAT. A question that is answered incorrectly is more of a penalty that a question that is left blank. So there is more pressure on whether or not to take a guess on an answer.

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Just to let everyone know, the Unified audition information has been updated for 2005. Here's the link:

http://www.otterbein.edu/dept/thr/unified.htm

Hope to see many of you there!

By Believersmom (Believersmom) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 09:18 pm: Edit

Doctorjohn-
Is there only one "Unified" audition or do other groups of schools hold different unifieds[at other times] besides those listed at the link?
Thanks for the info...

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Believersmom:

Other schools do hold group auditions. North Carolina School of the Arts, Juilliard, and others, are not part of our group. However, they tend to be in the same cities on the same or contiguous days. In NY and LA, they're at different hotels/sites, but in Chicago, we're all together at the Palmer House. You just need to contact each school to find out details.

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:24 am: Edit

Doctorjohn: I'm a little confused after reading over Otterbein's web site. If a prospective student auditions at the Unifieds, do they then have to audition on campus, as well?

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 06:57 am: Edit

Lynnm:

Nope. That's the point of the Unifieds, they take the place of on-campus auditions. If you audition for us or anyone else in New York, Chicago, San Francisco or Los Angeles, you don't need to come to campus.

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Thanks everyone for all the info about U.Mich. I am still not sure how I would do at Ithaca or Elon with my desire for a real college experience and a conservatory type training, as well as a good education. Could anyone give me some insight about those two schools?

Also, I have revised my list. NYU seems like a great school, but I am looking for an MT program that is more balanced than either CAP21 or Steinhardt. (I have heard that CAP21 is mostly acting, and Steinhardt is mostly music and voice.) Also, Syracuse seems like a pretty good program, but I don't like the idea of only 1/2 of the students participating in a Senior Showcase, if the students voted to even have a Showcase in NY. I prefer U.Mich to NYU and Ithaca to Syracuse.

My list has changed a bit now, and I think my four favorites are U.Mich,U.Miami, Ithaca, and IWU, and Elon would be a safety academically and a less competitive MT program, which is not top notch, but worth the money. (The negative comments about Elon are that it is weaker in acting, and it does not offer a senior showcase in NY.) I know there is really no such thing as a safety MT school,but Elon sounds like the easiest school and program to get into in my list.

Also, U.Mich sounds great. Great academics, great MT program, great college town. The only things that turn me off are the huge university, and the fact that TA's teach classes. (Not in the MT program, but yes, probably in general ed, or in the Spanish program if I did minor or double major in Spanish if I went there.)Can the size ever be intimidating, even to MT students who are in a small program, or is the large student body a good thing for MT students offering great EC's, etc, without having any negative effects on MT students? The school sounds great, but I did not put it on my list until now because in my 3 regular college guides (PR, Fiske, and Kaplan) the university didn't match me personally very well. Also, how expensive is it for out of staters, and how is it's financial aid?

Also, my parents and I don't have a lot of time or money to devote to visiting 5 colleges all in various states far from home (Maine) twice - once for a tour, and once for an audition. My parents have suggested touring and auditioning on the same visit, but I am afraid that the fear of the audition would make a tour not as beneficial as it would be without any fears or distractions caused by an audition. It's just that Ithaca is the closest school to my home (being about 7 hours), I do not know what to do about college visits, and I am running out of time to figure it out.

Thanks so much everyone.

~ Court

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:41 pm: Edit

Court...
You ask...how expensive is U Mich for out-of-staters and how are they on financial aid? You can get more info on their website specifically, but the short answer is that it is twice as expensive for out-of-staters than for Mich residents. (I believe it is in the $32-$38,000 range for out-of-staters) I have been told Mich is not terribly generous in financial aid. But there are others on this forum that will have more info than that....we have several freshman MT majors represented here that would have more first-hand information than I.

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 01:59 pm: Edit

DOCTORJOHN - I'M SURPRISED THAT THE UNIFIED AUDITIONS IN L.A. ARE ONLY FOR 1 DAY. I THOUGHT I REMEMBER THEM BEING 2 DAYS LAST YEAR. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY ADD AN EXTRA DAY IF THEY NEED TO OR AM I NOT REMEMBERING CORRECTLY. IF WE CAN ONLY DO 2 OR 3 AUDITIONS IN 1 DAY, THEN IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL HAVE TO DO SAN FRANCISCO AND LAS VEGAS AS WELL AND THEY ALL ARE ONLY A FEW DAYS APART. I SUPPOSE FLYING TO CHICAGO FOR THE 3 DAYS IS THE ONLY OTHER OPTION.

By Mtjack (Mtjack) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Court

My D will be a freshman MT at Ithaca this year. She also auditioned at Elon and was waitlisted. We do not view Elon in any way as less competitive. And if you get into the program you will get into the school. Which seems to be true of most school besides NYU and UM. We saw a production and were quite impressed with all of the principal players. We felt that an issue with Elon was the lack of a NYC connection, not just the lack of a senior showcase. ELon has rolling admissions so it is best to apply and audition early. The cost of Elon also makes it quite attractive. Ithaca is an intense and smal MT program, freshman class of 12. I think that of the 125 credits needed 95-100 are MT required. I am not sure of how much of the "college experience" my D will have at Ithaca, but she is thrilled to be going.

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:22 pm: Edit

Catsmom:

The LA auditions have only been one day, but I believe that some schools have in the past added audition times on Monday. I'll see what I can find out from the coordinator, Peter Sargent at Webster.

Most auditions are 20 minutes at the most, so it is theoretically possible to schedule more than 2 or 3 a day. I say theoretically because some schools want prospects for a large block of time. If there are families out there who have experienced a problem with scheduling conflicts, I'd appreciate hearing about it, so that my colleagues and I can work on solutions. But except for that, I don't see a problem with doing 4 or 5 auditions in a day. Too many more than that, however, would be difficult to juggle and probably much too stressful.

So if you want to see 6 or more schools at the Unifieds, you may want to look at Chicago, because we're there for three days. I would not recommend trying to do Las Vegas (Thursday), San Francisco (Saturday), and LA (Sunday). Las Vegas is not set up the same as the other sites, and I only recommend it for students who live relatively close. You could possibly do SF on Saturday and LA on Sunday.

Hope this helps. I'll get back to you as soon as I hear from Peter.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Court, I cannot answer all your questions. But I have a few thoughts on some things you wrote about.

First, at NYU/Tisch/Cap21, it is not primarily acting. I think you need to read information and delve deeper as some of your impressions, originally with UMich and now with NYU and reasons why you were at first saying no to UMich and now to NYU, are not that accurate. At Cap21, there is a list of the curriculum and there is acting, voice (including private voice) and dance included. It is the OTHER Tisch studios, not Cap, that are primarily acting. I am looking at the list of courses right now for each semester for all four years (in fact, I think someone posted it on a thread here back in March or so if you can find it) and I don't want to type it all out for you but there is acting- scene study, vocal technique, voice and speech, ballet, jazz, tap, private voice, music theory, vocal performance, acting for musical theater, private voice, monologues, dialects, audition technique, and so forth almost every semester. There is less acting and dance, I believe, at Steinhardt.

Have you looked into Penn State or Emerson yet? I think you may want to.

As far as the visits, we have a similar "dilemma" here as well. Normally, I prefer to do all first visits during junior year as fall of senior year is busy enough with the application process. I do not like summer visits when school is not in session, nor are my kids home anyway.

With my first child who is about to start college, we did all the first visits in junior year. She did second visits in fall of senior year to her first choices. Then in April, after acceptances came, she returned to three schools she was contemplating for their open house events for admitted students. I liked it this way the best. Of course she did not have the audition process! This was not for theater.

Now, with my daughter who is going for MT, as far as this time line, it is off for me. She just finished tenth grade but is going to be a senior and is applying to BFA programs this fall as she is graduating high school early. So, I did not count on this. This decision was made last Jan. By then, the school vacations she had were booked with trips and those were out. She was in shows, was tricky to schedule visits. We did get to do NYU. We had appointments and overnights at Emerson and Boston Conservatory lined up in April but had to cancel these cause of a mistake in a schedule for her school trip to Europe which was not back in time as we had been lead to believe. So, thus far, she only has been to NYU!

So, the plan was to see her other 7 schools this fall and return in winter for the auditions. Now, of course, the logistics are mind boggling and very expensive. As with you, the distances involved for most of these schools is quite far, either very long day drives one way or flights involved. Missing school will be an issue cause of the time needed for each trip is more than simply a day. Then, she may be in a show and does not want to list too many conflicts at auditions. We have just sat down now that she is back from her summer program to plan this all out, among other college stuff.

Here is what she decided to do and I am supporting this. She wants to apply ED to NYU but realizes she really should see any other top choices before making that committment (I think this and she pretty much agrees), and so we will plan a trip to UMichigan in September. We are going to Boston to see Emerson and Boston Conservatory in late October (as these are the closest to us) enroute to parent weekend at my other D's school, Brown, which is also a long weekend at our high school. Then she said for the other four schools on her list, she will see those for the first time when we go in winter for the auditions, and of course need to return to the other four (oy) in winter as well (though at least some auditions are on weekends which is normally not a day I would plan an ordinary visit). I think this will work. She will have seen schools she likes most on paper by the time she applies. She says that it is not like when her sister visited colleges to determine whether or not to apply because in this case, there is a finite number of schools that even offer these programs so there are less choices in the first place of where to apply. She feels because of that, she can see some schools at auditions and will be able to then decide where to go (of course from the list of where she gets in!). Thus we are not doing two visits at all 8 schools. It will be two visits at four schools and one time for auditions/visit at four schools. New York and Boston are not as difficult logistics-wise as the ones you fly to. Others are more involved in terms of time away. We also are having to make a trip to NYC in a month to get new headshots and that was one MORE trip to fit in! I offer my D's plan to you since you are grappling with that similar issue. Talk to your parents about all these options regarding visit/audition plans.

Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Court,

A few thoughts:
First in regard to "the people" you are likely to meet at UMich, or any other school for that matter: I'm not sure that's a useful or answerable question. Every school you've expressed interest in will have people/students/teachers of all shapes, sizes, temperments, backgrounds, etc. How will you meet them? Who will you bond with? No one knows. It's part of the great adventure of going off to school at a new place. A better question might be to inquire if others have a sense of the "culture" or "community" at a given school or program: is it hyper-competitive or is it collegial? is it ego-driven or supportive? What is the evaluation process and how are the results of the evaluations used? The answers to these types of questions should tell you more about how you will fit in, as clearly "fit" is important to you.

Secondly, I would suggest that you not take Syracuse off your list because of the Senior Showcase issue. Talk to the kids there and see what the impact of that choice has been on their lives. They also go on a group trip to NYC for master classes, meetings with agents/producers/directors, etc. which they rave about. Several we spoke to said they preferred it to a showcase. And in the end, a showcase is one aspect of a four year experience. We were very impressed with the Syracuse program - found it to be VERY balanced in acting, voice and dance and quite strong in all three. It is also a very nurturing program and we thought all of our questions, as well as questions asked by other auditioner's families, were answered with thoughtfulness, intelligence and honesty. Pretty terrific actually. I also think they have good financial aid, the city is accessible from Maine and not at all overwhelming. Look again. I think you might like it a lot.

With regard to financial aid at UMich, you need to talk to the school directly. I know that cutbacks by the state of Michigan hampered the ability of the Music School to award all of the MERIT scholarships they would have liked to give, but as we did not apply for need-based financial aid, I don't know what to expect. I do know a friend of my D's who is going to the Music School as an instrumental music major has received close to a "full ride," most of it need-based I believe.

Hope this helps.

Soozievt,

I'm not surprised to hear that your D is still desirous of applying to Tisch ED. From all of your posts, it appears that the lure of NYC has always been very strong. Two thoughts to consider. You might ask her if she thinks about focusing completely on her training for 4 years or whether having the perceived "advantage"/opportunity to work professionally sooner than later is the real draw for her. Several people we talked to shared concerns about the "distractions" that NYC presents to passionate, experienced and talented young artists (all adjectives that seem to describe your D). That would concern me as well, especially given your D's biological age (despite how "old" you have often said she behaves). Secondly, do you know who would be providing your D's voice training, private or otherwise, at Tisch? We were told that Tisch students DO NOT have access to NYU voice faculty, most of whom I believe are at Steinhardt (which as you know merged with the New York Conservatory (College?) of Music in the 60's) and shares faculty with Julliard and the Manhattan School of Music. The Tisch teachers are members of the individual studios with which NYU subcontracts to provide Tisch arts training - they are NOT, I was told, NYU faculty. This could be, of course, either a good or a bad thing, depending on the individual studio and instructor. Just something I want you to make sure you adequately research and are comfortable with. Please correct any of this information you think I may have misunderstood.

Lastly, I'm sure by this time I am coming across as quite a UMich "homer," and I'm sorry if it appears that way. Yes, I am quite enthusiastic about the program and feel like I'm starting to get to know more about it as we approach the start of my D's freshman year. But in no way do I mean to suggest that it is the right program for everyone - NO program is right for everyone. This just happens to be a great fit for our D and our family. As a matter of fact, looking back to my posts last fall, I had a gut feeling about UMich long before my D was accepted. Given what I've learned over the past year, I like and would recommend several other programs very highly, Penn State, Syracuse, CMU, OCU and Otterbein to name a few. And, of course, there are lots more discussed here that I know absolutely nothing about that sound wonderful as well.

So excuse my enthusiasm. I'm just a happy, contented and relieved Mom trying to help out as best I can.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 08:52 pm: Edit

PLEASE don't excuse it...it is very very helpful! I think learning from other people's experiences is central to this process and what makes this thread invaluable! I believe that U Michigan's program sounds ideal. Right now at this stage of the game (though without the visits), based on my D's research, she likes NYU and Michigan best. I think of course more finer details need to be explored by talking to those at the schools and so forth. She has friends at almost every program she is looking at. When we go to UMich, I think she will contact a girl in the program who will be a soph. Maybe I can have her get in touch with your D as well but this will be in Sept. when it is all pretty new for your D.

I think my daughter went into the process with a favorite which is totally opposite from my other D's process which began with hundreds of schools, wittled to 30 at fall of junior year, then to ten to visit and 8 to apply to. The MT child has said she is open to all schools and once she got the green light to start the college process (when she came to us last winter to ask to graduate early), I admit she did do a lot of research on each program and said she has an open mind. But she is also influenced by knowing kids who go to these programs. She has attended a summer theater program for seven years. She has many older friends from there and many have gone onto all these top programs. She particularly knows about a dozen now at Tisch. And then this summer, among all her closest friends who are entering senior year (again her friends are all older), they were all discussing these programs a bunch this summer among themselves. Many are applying to the same ones. Many are also doing ED at Tisch.

Actually the point you made about her perceiving starting professional work early is not at all a thought in her mind. It has never come up. None of that is the allure of NYU for her. She is only looking at it as a college, not to start a career early or anything like that. I don't even see it that way myself any differently than another college. I also don't think kids can even audition while at NYU, unless in summer. I mean one girl she knows at Tisch has a callback this summer for a national tour but I doubt she auditions during the school year. Actually, just as an aside, one girl she knows from camp who was to be a freshman at Steinhardt this past year, got into the national tour of Mamma Mia, into ensemble but understudy as Sophie (lead) and deferred college a year (this was one year ago), then became Sophie on the tour in Feb. and just got the lead on Broadway starting this fall. That is a different story but NONE of this is what is on her mind. She is simply choosing a college. There is no thought about work during those four years except in summers. ONE allure of NYU, however, IS the location in that she loves NYC.

When I asks her what aspects about Cap21 she likes, she can give me a very specific list. I won't list it all here, of course. But for instance, like UMich, you get the conservatory type experience, but also some liberal arts. She likes the intense studio work three days per week all day. I don't know the voice teachers but I don't mind that the studio faculty are not NYU faculty. Kids she knows in the program speak highly of the faculty. When she visited, a friend in Cap who was in her second year, took her to some dance classes at the studio. She wanted to get my D into a vocal class she had but it was too late in the day for us and we had to travel that night six hours home. She raved about this teacher. Personally, I like that UMich's program is smaller but my D is the one who must make these choices and get very informed. She has the most info. on NYU as far as the visit and also talking to numerous friends in the program. This summer, we met up with someone she knows in CCM that she used to do her summer camp with and whose younger sister now is there with my D. Now, my daughter decided to take CCM off her list! But it wasn't from talking to that girl who loves it. My D knows two kids who recently got into CCM who have chosen to go elsewhere.

By the way, today, we got the brochure from Syracuse and it looks very good to me. I think we have a lot of info and my daughter has typed up a list of what she likes specifically about each program...and of course, she will still need to delve further via the visits and talking to people in the programs.

I do think there is a lot of influence by the fact of so many that she knows in Tisch and so many friends who are applying there. She says her decision is independent of all of that. But I know it has not been in a vacuum. I am surely not saying it is the best or one of the best ones out there. It is one of many fine programs she could do well at, learn alot and enjoy. SHE happens to like it, that's all. But I know the others are also appealing.

Her list right now is: NYU/Tisch, UMichigan, Carnegie Mellon, Syracuse, Penn State, Boston Conservatory, Emerson, Ithaca. And ya know, she might not have a choice! You can research and all that jazz but it is so hard to get into these programs that you have to like more than one and also realize that you might not have a choice. We just hope she gets into ONE! Fingers crossed. The ED thing is also based on advice from many people regarding it helping her odds. I was not into that at first because she could get in but not get Cap21, the musical theater studio, and be locked into an acting studio which is not worth it to me since she is only applying for MT everywhere else and that is what she loves and I cannot see her giving up voice or dance ever. So, she might like Tisch but she now agrees that not enough to go and be put in another studio and not musical theater....even though she has friends who took that route...one is a current roomie about to enter Lee Strasborg. She met someone on the Board of Cap21 this summer by sheer coincidence (who saw her perform) who advised the ED route as well. An auditioner can stipulate Cap21 only. Right now, that is what she is leaning toward. She admits that to be certain, it is best if she sees another favorite program before filing for ED...and she is going to do that with UMichigan in Sept. And also you advise filing the application for Michigan ASAP cause of rolling admissions, right? Would you say by October? When did your daughter file that? By the way, my D is going to enter that Arts Awards thing you discussed a long while back and filed the paperwork this past spring. I suppose as she readies audition material for college, she will have the material for that submission.

I don't blame you for espousing UMichigan's program. I really know I would do the same if my D found a place that was perfect for her. My daughter should only be as fortunate as yours and get in there! ;-) The odds at these schools is daunting, to me anyway.

Susan

By Lookingmt (Lookingmt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:32 am: Edit

Hi Court!

Welcome to the board!

From you post, it seems you are looking for a small to middle size college where you can get the personalized training for MT.

You can absolutely do no better than Oklahoma City University. Not only does it have one of the smallest student to teacher ratios of any of the major MT schools, it also costs a lot less than those other places! I know. After checking the final price tag for most of the top schools, we found OCU to be a quality bargain.

The class size is limited to no more than 12 -15 students per class. You get full music traning at OCU..you're not just turned into a performer. When you graduate with a BM in MT, you also get a minor in music theory. That's because OCU stresses making you a complete and professional musician. Our daughter had very little knowledge about music theory and sight singing, but she has became very proficient. She also has learned a lot about dance since OCU MT majors are trained by the OCU School of Dance..not dance teachers hired by a MT department. They get the exact same training that those who plan a career as "dancers"..no breaks! And, most importantly, you must take three years of acting in order to get your BM.

We purposley looked at colleges other than OCU, and while she was attarcted to some other small/middle sized schools, she felt that she wanted a college where she would get personalized training in a smaller learning environment. And Oklahoma City is beautiful and large (the 25th largest city in the US!) with plenty of activities and sporting events.

I highly recommend you check them out. Good luck!

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:13 am: Edit

Hi all, I have not been posting for a long time, but, have been keeping up by reading the posts frequently. Now that my D is about to enter her freshman year at Tisch/CAP 21, I find myself thinking frequently of how we might have done things differently this past year regarding visiting MT schools, deciding which ones to audition at, etc... Here are a few of my "wish I had known that back then thoughts":

1. Have some safety schools. To be quite frank and redundant, the odds of getting into these exclusive MT programs is daunting. We're talking 2%-to maybe as high as 10% chance of getting a slot. Compare that with the 25% chance of getting into NYU or another academic school regularly and I am not talking about a spot at Tisch which might be 10%. With that said, its imperative to have some safety schools on your list no matter how talented the student. And do not assume what a safety school is, Elon is not a safety, etc. Do your research...

2. When a student auditions - the timing of the audition, the health of the student, the preparation and selection of materials, etc. is critical. So many things are working to interfere with all your carefully laid plans.
a) WHEN:
Some schools are better to audition at early: i.e., OCU - they have early action or it may be called something different - where you can audition early, be accepted with no obligation yet and get great academic and talent scholarships. Be prepared that to audition at a school of music, the voice must really be good...

b) TIMING:
Some schools such as UM have "rolling admission" - my daughter auditioned at their VERY FIRST audition time. It gets even better (lol) - she was the very first "auditionee" of the season. We were very (too much so) diligent in getting the application finalized quickly in order to do the first audition. Not a good thing. I find out, only after getting there and sitting in the auditiorium listening to the MT director say, "If you get in from this very first audition of the year, it is nothing short of a miracle. It means we are accepting you no matter who else comes our way."

c) HEALTH
Get your child a flu shot. Consider spacing your auditions in such a way that there are not 2 or more the same weekend (in case of a sore throat). Although the Unified Auditions are cost saving and convenient, consider whether you want to put all your eggs in one basket - in other words, if your child is sick that weekend, then all those auditions performed during that time, might not be the best or even competitive.

d) MURPHY'S LAW
What might go wrong, really might go wrong. For the FSU audition, Dancermom graciously posted that the dance floor was extrememly slippery and to be aware of this... Did my daughter listen to me on this one? Oh no. She did, however, proceed to slip ALOT and she is an accomplished dancer.. AFter FSU, she went out and bought the black jazz shoes with the rubber soles that are constructed so you can still arch your feet, etc... She wore them to her next audition.

Flights get delayed, canceled, etc. Be prepared to leave early (Delta let us do that one time (no charge) when a fierce storm was coming our way and flights were already being canceled...

Bring extra copies of headshots and resumes. Bring extra audition outfit (nerves lead to breakfast spills) Dance audition usually comes first, so be prepared with curling iron, deoderant, water bottles, etc.

Get to audition site early and strategize which "warm-up" room to save for your child and have them meet you there. It makes a difference if your child is early on the list - you need a warm up room quickly.

Its the little things sometimes.

3. If your child would really not consider choosing a program that has a cut policy... then by all means do not waste your time auditioning there. We are sitting in the auditorium before the CCM audition and the director is talking about the cut policy and how many they start with and how many they end up with and the light bulb goes off: I don't want my D going there or anywhere else with a cut policy (if there are other options - and there were.)

4. Although the end result is that D is going to Tisch/CAP21 - I wish she had gone the ED route. It would have saved a lot of travel $, time worrying, etc... It was only during her regular audition date in Jan., that I had confirmation that they ask the auditioner, "Are you CAP 21 or nothing?"

5. Good Luck everyone. Its a stressful time, but, you will make it!!!

Sincerely,
Margaret (MTheatremom)

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:34 am: Edit

Soozievt,

Glad to hear your D has done her "homework." Given your descriptions of her, I shouldn't be surprised! Sounds like she has all of this under control.

In answer to your question about when to apply to/audition at UMich, I can tell you what we did and why. My D had her application in by the 11/15 deadline and requested the mid January audition date. There is one earlier date available in November, but I believe all your materials (and I mean ALL your materials - recs included) have to be in by mid September to request the November date. I know that Dancersmom's D did that audition last year. As I remember, they actually extended the November audition application deadline to Oct 1 last year. I also remember that after the fact, Dancersmom felt that perhaps it was not the best choice to audition that early, feeling that perhaps they "hold back" a bit on early acceptances, knowing they have lots more applicants to see. I don't think there is any way to verify that, but wanted to share my recollection of her impressions. I think that either of the two offered January dates are ideal. By the time my D auditioned at UMich, she had already auditioned at NYU-Steinhardt (on their first Open Audition date in November), Syracuse and Emerson (both on the same weekend in early December, Emerson Early Action). She was accepted to all of these programs. UMich was her first choice and she wanted to have experienced the whole process a few times before going to UM. It was the right decision for her. She was accepted by Michigan 2 weeks after her audition. When that happened, she cancelled her last two auditions at Penn State and BOCO. She was not accepted at CCM and CMU where she auditioned in mid- and late January.

However, even if you D auditions at UM in November, I don't think she would have an answer from UM in time to influence her decision whether or not to go ED at NYU. Also, with regard to Tisch studio placement, I remember Emily telling us (Emily - where are you and how are you? long time, no hear....) that she can tell them she will only accept an ED placement at CAP21 - she will not be trapped in an acting studio by applying ED if NYU is really what she wants.

I know the 2005 Michigan audition schedule is now available on the Michigan School of Music website. Audition dates and info can be found at this address:
http://www.music.umich.edu/admissions/ug/audition_requirements/index.lasso

I hope you know that if you have any questions you'd like me to answer off board, you should feel free to email me.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:14 am: Edit

Hi Margaret (MTheatremom),
thanks for that super helpful post. I too have worried about auditioning "too early", and your comments just reinforced my concerns. Your reminders about the little things that can go wrong are really helpful as well.

Applying EARLY DECISION: I've wondered if it really makes sense to apply to any MT program ED. Why wouldn't these schools want to wait and see the entire range of talent that will audition for them before they make any decisions about who will fill those precious 8 (or 12 or 20) slots?

(Unless the student is such an outstanding talent that the school would want to snap the person up immediately.)

Does anyone have any thoughts about this? If my thinking is correct, it might actually be a disadvantage to apply early decision by "forcing" the school to say yes or no before January.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:40 am: Edit

Jrmom,

You are essentially right in your thinking. However, I don't know any MT program other than the two at NYU that do offer ED. My thinking there is that Tisch at least can do that because they have so many more slots to fill than the other programs. I believe CAP21 accepts upwards of 80 MT's, looking for a class of around 60-65. A few other programs offer Early Action which may allow them to try and "snag" what they may perceive to be "sure things" before they audition elsewhere. The lure of an early acceptance, even though it is not binding in Early Action, can be VERY tempting. In any case, MTheatermom has offered some excellent suggestions. I take her advice to mean that you really do have to look at each program you are interested in individually and ascertain the advantages/disadvantages of the audition opportunities they offer. So far --- OCU: early=good, Michigan: really early=not good, middle=good, etc. I'm sure we'd love to hear suggestions from other people's experiences with other programs.

The Murphy's Law point is SOOOOO correct! You cannot have enough back-up plans. And then have back-up plans for your back-up plans. Don't ask me about lost luggage, flying to Ann Arbor in mid January, driving from Boston to New York in the "storm of the year." It's why there is a fine balance between auditioning early and later. If you have an earlier date, although not TOO early (".......AAAARGH!!!), if something goes wrong, at many, although not all, schools, you may be able to reschedule. If you are the last auditioner on the last audition date.....maybe not.

I hope we're not scaring everyone. That's absolutely not the intent here. Often things go exactly as you've scheduled them. We just want you to be prepared.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:19 am: Edit

Hi again, yes, it looks like NYU's Steinhardt and Tish offer your basic ED. By that token, I think if the student could really be happy going there (can only apply to one school, not both, but you all know that:) than why not go ED, b/c the school knows you are serious/committed and the odds are I hear statisticlly a little in your favor.

Keep in mind, ED auditions (for NYU) are in Oct./Nov.?! And you will find out one way or the other by Dec. 15th. If you get in, you can cancel all your future hotel and flights...

Unlike a rolling admissions school, where they have several audition dates to pick/choose potential students, an ED school has that one deadline to decide about their early students. Seems to me they would be ill-advised to pass up a talented, smart and 100% committed applicant. The advantage works in favor here of both the appicant and the school...

I forgot one or two last important things on my, "Wish we had done that" list:
*** Use audition material that is obscure - its out there...(read earlier posts by Theatremom)
*** Use audition material (particularly for the voice part) that shows your range. This is the time to do it. The auditioner won't know the extent of what you can do if you don't show them. There's alot of talent out there - and you need a little edge.
***Find out your typecast and go with it. Its not preferential to be one type or another - it just is. Its rare to be both an ingenue and a character actress at this young age. Find vocal pieces and monologues that fit well for your "type."
-Margaret
Mtheatremom

By Ilmomsk (Ilmomsk) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:18 am: Edit

You people continue to amaze me with your generosity in trying to help us all. Very solid advice. I am getting very fond of you all. Thanks from the heart-

Off to see the Cubs today in 63 degree Chicago weather.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

You moms are the BEST!! I mean it! It is the sweetest thing to share your experiences having been through it all for those of us following on the footheels!

First, Jrmom, actually applying ED to Tisch is considered an advantage in the odds of admission. As another mom wrote, they accept maybe 80 kids for 60 slots. So, it is not the 15 or 20 at another school. Not only do I know it is an advantage from what current students have said to us, but my D met someone on the Board of Cap21 this summer by chance and that person also told my daughter that that was the way to go (obviously only if someone truly wants to go there).

I'm getting all the mom posting names mixed up but whoever posted this AM and said that if your kid gets in early, all those Jan/Feb auditions, flights, hotels, etc. can be cancelled! I never would ask my kid to apply early for this reason but since she is telling ME she is going to do this, I have realized in the back of my mind, the what ifs...IF she got in early, wow, wouldn't that make the rest of the year easier, way less trips! So, the thought crossed my mind now that I hear what she is leaning toward.

Mtheatermom...your list of advice is superb. I do wonder with my child given that the admit rates at all these schools seems so daunting, where is really a safety school for this?? My older child who is about to enter college had reaches, matches, and safeties and this second kid's list does not feel like any school could be called "safe". I tell her that and she feels the odds are that she could be at least admitted to one of the eight. Her voice teacher said the other day that she ought to add these safeties: Wagner or Hartt. My daughter did not change the list though. I am curious, what school did your D have as a safety in this process?

You wrote about the CCM cut policy and how this came to your attention when at the auditions. Well, of course by now, I am well aware of that policy. And it has been discussed a lot on here. At the very start of this process last winter, my D was very attracted to CCM. She loves intense training type things. At first the idea of a conservatory and barely any liberal arts was appealing but now she is leaning the other way toward schools that have some liberal arts on top of conservatory type training. Even so, CCM still has been on her list. She knows someone in the program who she saw this summer and who loved it very much. By the way, this girl acknowledged many kids being cut and she knew those kids. Then this student says to me, but that would not ever be the case with YOUR daughter (and I am thinking, yeah, right, who knows? every kid who got in had talent or they would not have gotten in!). I thought we would be making a visit to CCM this fall. But now, since my daughter got home from her summer program ten days ago and we are working on college "stuff" she tells me that she is no longer applying to CCM and that we should not visit. I was a bit surprised at what changed. I think this summer she discussed these programs a lot with friends at her summer program also applying. Her best friend had visited, though liked the program. However, she hated Cincinatti and my daughter, even before that, was not anxious to go to school in Cinci. She also does not like the very little amount of liberal arts courses or the level of the university when it comes to academics. She knows she would love the intensity of the program as she thrives on that kind of thing but says it is too risky to have that cut program where as you know, they start with a certain number of kids ANTICIPATING that they will cut (rather than just based on some problems with kids that might arise unexpectedly). She said that there was no way she wanted to go through this and later find out she was out and had nothing. After all, she is planning on FOUR years of college. If you are dropped from CCM, you can't begin somewhere else in a BFA program. So, ya know, she arrived at that decision and I think she has taken it off her list now and we don't have a visit planned afterall.

You mentioned that you did not know for sure til your D's audition at Tisch that she could state "Cap21 or nothing". Actually I already knew you could do this. This has been a big topic with my daughter actually. So, did your daughter stipulate that? I think if you are applying RD, it won't matter as much. But this issue is a big one if applying ED to Tisch, because it is a committment to attend. My concern months ago was that my daughter would speak of applying ED to Tisch and I kept saying, what if they put you in a different studio from Cap? She does have many friends who got other studios, though has some in Cap too. She used to say that was ok, she would still be going to Tisch and in fact, could change studios after two years. But I felt, if you are willing to go to a program that is NOT musical theater, then why would you only be applying to MT programs everywhere else?? (I mean I KNOW she ONLY wants musical theater). I was trying to say that as much as you would like to be at Tisch, why would you compromise not getting into musical theater when that is what you want and that is where your talent lies? I could not imagine her giving up voice and dance! It would be better to do RD at Tisch and then if you don't get the studio you want, you can weigh that at that time and may hopefully have other options. She knew that you could stipulate Cap21 or nothing but at first got nervous that that might close her out of Tisch all together (not sure why she has this very strong inclination there but she does). NOW, she has totally rethought it and admits, she would not want to go there and give up voice/dance. So, she says she is appyling ED and will say Cap or nothing. When I was chatting with the woman on the Board of Cap who I ran into by chance this summer in line to see my daughter in a show that she had a younger kid in that same cast but has a child who just graduated from Cap, she not only advised applying ED but when I asked about the chance I was concerned about not getting the MT studio and being locked in, she mentioned just telling the auditioners that you only see yourself at Cap and why (background, aspirations, certain training). We shall see. I want my D to at least visit UMich before she must submit an ED application to NYU as I think this is wise even though she has researched the schools and has a preference, she should see another one in person before this committment to do ED. So, that is the plan.

Theatermom, I was not really asking when to audition at UMichigan but rather when to send in the rolling admissions app (more so to get in academically), but really appreciate your first hand account and advice! I don't plan on her auditioning in November at UMichigan but rather in the winter. The ED auditions at NYU, however, ARE in November (someone asked that above). My daughter is also going to be auditioning for a show that goes on in November (not that we know if she will even get in of course). We have not yet mapped out audition dates but plan to do them at each school at this point. We just got the info. from Syracuse and I think they do have some earlier dates. I am not yet up to that part of the planning as she has only been home for about a week and we are working on all aspects of the college process. She had a boyfriend here from out of state the past few days and that put things on hold, lol. He also is applying for BFA, but in acting! I was mostly trying to figure out when she had to have a rolling admissions app in by. I had read on the regular forums here in reference to UMichigan that Sept./Oct. is best to help your chances to get in (academically speaking). That is what I meant. My other child had no schools with rolling admissions so I was not as familiar with that timeline. You said your D got hers in by Nov. 15. I was thinking my D might try to have it all ready by October if possible. And since she is already going to be working on an early application, it is not hard to do another one on the early side. I want her to ask for recs as soon as school begins. I know how much work this whole process is cause of just being through it with my older daughter this past year. By the way, I was not expecting her to have an answer from UMichigan before having to committ to ED at NYU. I might have confused you but I knew that. I only want her to SEE UMich before making an ED committment to anywhere. I just was asking about the whole rolling admissions academic piece and what was recommended as a time line to help the chances to be admitted academically. As you know, with NYU and Michigan, ya gotta get in academically, no easy feat!

Margaret, I think you are very wise in your advice about using songs that are not common in your audition and also showcasing range. We have discussed that a bunch. My daughter is in the midst of figuring out which songs to sing and knows the importance of both those points. She is very gung ho about not using songs that are used very often which of course knocks out many songs she has done well with in the past, lol. She is deciding on an upbeat and a ballad, and for two schools, one song must be pre-1960, which is also something to figure in. Has not begun much with the monologue aspect yet. That part worries me a bit as that is something she has done less of in past auditions, even though she does well with acting, she certainly has auditioned way more with songs than with monologues in the past.

Anyway, thanks all of you soooo much for sticking around and helping the rest of us!!! I do appreciate it!

Susan

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:34 pm: Edit

DOCTORJOHN - THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE ABOUT THE UNIFIED AUDITIONS. I THOUGHT THAT SOME SCHOOLS ASK YOU FOR A 3-HOUR BLOCK OF TIME FOR THEIR AUDITION. I KNOW THAT ITHACA DOES. IF THIS IS THE CASE, HOW CAN YOU FIT IN 4 TO 5 AUDITIONS IN ONE DAY? THAT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD, AS WE WOULD DO L.A. AND SAN FRANCISCO. THANKS FOR THE INFO ON LAS VEGAS AS WELL. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE SET UP ISN'T THE SAME THERE?

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

DOCTORJOHN - OH, SORRY. I JUST WENT BACK AN RE-READ YOUR "THEORETICALLY" IT CAN BE DONE BECAUSE SOME SCHOOLS WANT A BLOCK OF TIME.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:12 pm: Edit

You posters are providing such valuable information. Thank you so much! When is the book being published ;-)?

Susan--You have mentioned the difficulty of getting into UMich and NYU academically a couple of times. It looks from UMich's website, though, that they aren't requiring auditioners to have been accepted to Michigan as a school, but only to be approved to audition. The requirements for this seem to be much looser. Do I have this wrong? Theatermom, can you possibly answer this question, too?

Margaret--I'm so intrigued by the idea of the importance of knowing your own type. How is it possible to truly know one's own type at 16 or 17, unless it's extremely obvious? And who decides what is an ingenue? Two years ago my d's drama teacher told her she can't be one since she's not blonde. But since then she's proved that she can do ingenue. Doctorjohn mentioned "ingenue dancer" and "leading lady" once as types that Otterbein tries to fill. Does that make everyone else character? What about a non-blonde (Asian) "ingenue dancer" who can sing leading lady songs, perform subtle serious roles, and is a hilarious comedienne lol? Seriously, why WOULD someone want to type themselves? Do you mean for the monologue? For the songs?

I've got another question, too. If my d wants to use an obscure song for auditions but only has lead sheets, will that be okay with the college accompanists?

By Shauna (Shauna) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Arg, where did my post go?!

Oh well, what I was trying to say was that don't spend too much time sizing up everyone else at the auditions. You are who you are, and that is just wasting energy.

Also, start taking dance classes! It's never too late; from taking ballet at the beginning of the summer until now I have started to change from a "mover" to a dancer. And this page is very helpful!

Shauna

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, with UMichigan and NYU, you must also get into the university, not just the BFA program. At NYU, the academic admission is 50% and the audition is 50%. At UMich, I believe, first you must get into the university and then you are allowed to audition. This is different than the other schools on my D's list because at those, the audition counts for the majority of the admissions and then for academics, there is like a minimum level of qualifications/stats you must be above and for her, those are not an issue. But UMich and NYU are colleges that in their own right are difficult to be admitted to academically. NYU's admit rate to the university itself (not talking Tisch) is about 25%. You can look up things like SAT score medians, GPA, etc. etc. I don't have UMichigan's stuff in front of me but it is in the same ballpark as NYU. I have not heard of academic standards being lower for performing arts applicants. In fact, my D knows a few kids who are very talented in MT but were shut out of NYU for academic reasons. While I think my D is in the right range for these schools academically, you never know. She will put her all into her app materials like anyone applying academically. Also she is an early graduate though I checked with every school and all said that graduating in less than four years is fine and they have admitted students in the past like that. Still, I have no idea if this will be viewed differently or just what. She is done with testing, so that is out of the way.

The moms who have been through it can shed way more light on it than I! The kids we know who got into these two schools were also very good students, not just talented in musical theater. That won't be as much of an issue at the other schools is what I also meant.
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:56 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, as far as knowing your own "type"....if your kid has done a bunch of shows and casting and so forth, they kind of "know". Like my kid is not the sweet soprano ingenue type. She is more known as the belter or comedic actress I think. I likely am not using the right terminology! For instance, we were kidding this summer after she got her third Chita Rivera role! It seemed to be a pattern! While she has never done Guys and Dolls, the mom of her best theater friend kept telling me (and I agree), had both our girls done this show this summer (it was done at their program but both were in NINE instead), my D would be Adelaide and hers would be Sarah. I guess if you have done this a whole bunch, you kinda know what roles you would be cast at. For instance, in West Side Story, she would never be Maria but was Anita. She knew that before she was ever cast. Also certain roles involve dance and some dance, some don't. I think after a while of doing this, when you go to audition for a show, you know which role you would be considered for most likely. She is going to audition for Grease but she would never be Sandy but would go for Rizzo as an example. I bet your D could self assess this way too.

Susan

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Susan--
Yes, the typing like that is true. I guess my point is I feel it's a little too true for their ages. My d is also the one that we think of as the Anita/Adelaide type (belter, comedy, lots of personality, dancer). But her MT voice teacher is having her work on Maria's music and tells her she could play Emma if she wanted (rather than Lucy--one of her dream roles), but she would be bored (Jekyll & Hyde)! I think it's great she is stretching her in that way. I like it when a director sees something in my d that nobody else saw before--because she always come through and grows yet another dimension.

Anyone out there about UMich--is Susan's understanding about being accepted to the university first a definite? My daughter was told by them that they first go through several academic/background reviews and then give an approval (hopefully) to audition. The acceptance comes then from the audition. They told her it is NOT a general acceptance to the university, but only to the program for which one is applying.

Also, if anyone knows an answer to my lead sheets question???

By Theatrbroad (Theatrbroad) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Re: Lead sheet music for an audition -- That is absolutely one of the NO, NEVER, under ANY circumstances things to do!!!!

"Music, with accompaniment, in correct key, with cuts clearly marked" is the appropriate standard.

Even if it were acceptable, it would not be wise - with a lead sheet and chords, no 2 pianists would ever play it exactly alike, and do you really want to hear a "new" accompaniment in the middle of an audition?

By Georgiamom (Georgiamom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 04:39 pm: Edit

It looks like the stress level may be starting to climb for all of the 05 seniors and parents. Just to let everyone know - my D (graduate of OU MT program), during college worked in summer stock with kids from practically all of the programs mentioned on this board. During those summers I saw wonderful performances from kids from all over the country. Working side by side with the MT majors were voice majors and kids from other random majors. (One summer, my D had a roommate who was an English major at Harvard!!) And all of these kids were fabulous performers. (another college expense that you might not have thought about - summer trips to wherever your child does summer stock).

The main point of this post is to let everyone know that the most important thing is to find the program that fits your child best, where they will learn and grow in their craft, with faculty that will care about them and train them well. If they donít get into their top choice, make the most of where they do go. There are some kids that make it in this business with no college, and some that make it after majoring in something completely unrelated to MT. Some kids that start out as MT majors find out it really isnít what they want to do and go into stage management or directing or something else theatre related - or something completely different, journalism for example. Itís really fascinating to see a class of kids start together as freshmen and see how they have grown and changed four years later.

Schools that donít have NYC showcases usually have other NYC connections - so donít be alarmed if the school doesnít have a showcase, they usually have other ways of getting valuable NYC connections for their students.

Help your kids enjoy all of the fun and excitement of their senior year and try not to let the stress level get too out of control. Auditions are going to be their way of life - including a fair amount of rejections, with no explanations. A lot of these kids are used to being the ďbig fishĒ in the pond - and when they get into the college pond with a bunch of other big fish - thatís something new to deal with. I was incredibly impressed with the way that the OU students supported each other - even when they were up for the same roles - but I have heard from my D that there is similar support in NYC (at least on the surface ).

Enjoy this last year. Before you know it, the next 4 years will be over and they will be on to the next phase of their life.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

As with almost everything I say here, I always advise you to get your information straight from the horse's mouth whenever possible. Call the Music School at Michigan and ask your questions. Here is all I can tell you about how we experienced the process.

My D had to complete her regular U-M application and an Arts Supplement for the School of Music that had an extra essay or two and required an EXTENSIVE resume listing any and all of her training and performance experience in acting, singing and dance including representative repertoire. The format for this resume was very carefully delineated in the application materials. She was asked to select a first and second preferred date to audition. She had to send this information along with her SAT score (which for information sake I can tell you was 1250 - she only took it once) and scores from two SAT II's (which were NOT required but she took them so we sent them and they were 700 and 660). She submitted 1 recommendation from her high school guidance counselor and one academic recommendation, and 2 arts recommendations (one from her high school drama teacher and one from her private voice teacher). These were all submitted before November 15th, last year's deadline to be considered for the January 16th audition date that was her first choice. She was also asked to let them know what pieces she was planning to present at audition. At that point she was really not ready to commit to the songs and monologues she would want to do in January so I called and asked if we could delay that information. I was told that it was fine to wait but I was given the name and email address of the Auditions Coordinator and told to send in this information at least 2 or 4 weeks prior to the audition date (I can't remember which....) Then we waited.......

As I recall, she was notified in late November or early December first by personal email and a few days later by letter that all of her application and additional materials was been received and reviewed and they were "happy to inform" her that she was among a "select number" of students who were invited to audition. Geez.....a little scarey. The date of the audition was confirmed about 2 weeks later.

So while she did not receive a formal acceptance from the University of Michigan until after the audition (the letter from the University comes separately from the letter from the Music School), it is clear that acceptance by the regular Admissions committee is a necessary but not sufficient hurdle for admissions. Unlike NYU, where you actually can audition on one of their offered "Open Audition" Days in November and hope that a spectacular audition may influence the department to go to bat for you with the regular admissions office, at U-M, you will not be seen in audition unless you have already passed the academic hurdle. I have not heard of anyone who was accepted by the School of Music and not accepted academically. You CAN'T be because you can't audition without an invitation, which is issued only after your materials have been reviewed. My understanding is that last year U-M received around 900 applications for the MT program, invited 400 students to audition and they've chosen a class of 24 for this year.

That was our experience. But again, check with the school because who knows what changes from year to year.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Theatrbroad--Thanks so much for responding about the lead sheets! That was my impression, but of course the piano teacher told my d not to worry about it. Dumb, huh? So here's another question: my d got some music (secret source for secret songs :-)) from the composer of an unknown show that she is nuts about. He only had lead sheets to send her. Would it be possible and ethical to get someone to transcribe or whatever it's called into sheet music that could be used by college accompanists? Or would she only be able to use those songs at auditions where she brings her own tape?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Georgiamom, thanks for that lovely post!

I agree not to use lead sheets. At first, I was not positive what you meant, but my gut feeling it was that kind of music that has the melody written with chords, but not the regular kind of sheet music with base and treble clefs. Am I right? If so, I agree, do NOT use those in auditions. You gotta find the regular sheet music and in the correct key (don't expect anyone to transpose).

Mtmommy, I am not sure the details and you might be correct when it comes to UMichigan. But in either case, we are talking of being evaluated academically before getting the green light to audition. Perhaps the actual acceptance is at the very end of that. But, I do recall a friend of my daughter's knowing she was academically in at UMich in the fall when she was applying ED to Tisch. But don't go by me! I don't know the right terminology here. I know that at UMich and NYU, you are looked at academically as well as via audition. At NYU, these both might happen at the same time, not one before the other. You get an audition appointment without knowing if you are in academically, that I do know. At UMich, I THOUGHT you were either evaluated academically first (not sure if they say yes you are in or simply yes, you may audition), before you audition. The mom with a daughter going knows more than moi!

Ok, so I have a question that I know I have asked here a long while ago but at the time was just looking ahead but not that immersed (as I had another kid applying to college this past year, and one was enough!) but now that we are really getting going on this MT college process, I hope nobody minds if I ask it again...and the participants on here have changed or evolved over time....I recall Emily (where are you Emily???) being sweet and giving me an answer back then but I will just ask now to you guys...

When applying to MT college programs....obviously everyone must have their theatrical resume and you present this at the audition, right? This is something my kid has anyway and has been an ongoing document she updates from time to time. BUT....when you do the college application itself, you would not be giving THAT resume in with it, right? Rather, you give them the kind of activities/awards/community service/summer experiences/work, etc. type lists that any applicant would do on a college application, right? My older daughter included a resume of this sort of thing as it was more specific than the little charts on the application, and she did have alot of extracurriculars as this second child does too. So, at this very moment, my D is working on that college application resume, not the theatrical one. It seems weird to have two but even though they overlap, this one is not the one that lists roles and so forth which is a major section of a theatrical resume. This one is more like what every applicant documents. So, she is not listing roles and things like that on it. She will have theater as an activity of course. So, is that what your kids did when they applied to college for these programs? In other words, did they have a normal activity/award, etc. list/resume with the application (the kind of things asked on a college application) and without their shows/roles listed AND a theatrical resume that only was handed in at the audition? Or did they give the theatrical resume in with the application?

Thanks!
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Sorry my post crossed with the ones above and there are the answers to the UMich question!
Susan

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Catsmom: I heard from Peter Sargent today. None of the schools in our group (the "Unifieds") are holding Monday auditions in LA, as far as he knows. But he did think that some other schools might be. I checked. Although all have not posted their 2005 dates yet, I can tell you that last year North Carolina School of the Arts, SUNY Purchase, Carnegie-Mellon and Boston University held auditions on Sunday and Monday in Los Angeles. Juilliard, interestingly enough, did not hold auditions in LA, but did hold auditions on Friday and Saturday in San Francisco, as did the other schools I just listed.

You asked about Las Vegas. We're at the High School of the Performing Arts there, and it is a large group audition where we all sit in the theatre while each student does two minutes onstage. We post a callback list, and if students choose to see us, we may get a couple of minutes to work with them. It isn't the same kind of private audition which we hold in the other places on the tour, and I don't think it's ideal. But it is convenient for students in Nevada.

Mtheatremom: You make an excellent point about not putting all your eggs in one basket, or all your auditions on one day. What if you get laryngitis or your flight gets cancelled? Obviously I believe in the value of the unified auditions, but I agree it may not make sense to do all your auditions there. Some mix of two or three on-campus auditions at the schools on the top of your list, plus some others at the unifieds, may be the best approach.

I also agree that lesser-known schools like Elon or Otterbein are not safeties. If a school holds auditions for entrance, and accepts less than 20% of its applicants, it's not a safety! That's why I put together the list by state of all the schools which offer MT programs. The only true safety is an in-state school which does not hold auditions for entrance. After that, it gets more difficult. I'm about half-way through checking websites to figure out which schools hold auditions and which do not; I hope to have that done by the end of the month. Incidentally, for those reading this thread for the first time, you can find the list on Shauna's MT FAQ site: http://www.geocities.com/musicaltheatercolleges/

Mtmommy: You asked about type casting. I think Soozie's response was pretty accurate. Most kids know they're a Sarah and not an Adelaide, or an Anita but not a Maria. We auditioners get confused when we see Adelaides try to do Sarah, or vice versa.

But more importantly, it's less a matter of knowing what type you are, as what type you're NOT, and therefore what kind of material is inappropriate. Stephen Sondheim's "Here's to the ladies who lunch" from COMPANY is one of the great songs of the late 20th century, and I can imagine a certain kind of young actress being attracted to the cynical tone of it. But it was written for a woman in her 50's, and is one of Elaine Stritch's signature pieces. Ms Stritch is now in her 70's. I have vivid memories of seeing her do it, and so do my colleagues. So if your daughter sings that song, my brain cannot help but project a virtual videotape of Elaine Stritch doing it alongside of your daughter. Guess who loses that contest? For the same reason, I don't think a white boy should sing "Make them hear you" from RAGTIME. Again, it's a great song, and who wouldn't love singing it? But no 17-year-old can compare with Brian Stokes Mitchell, and white kids shouldn't be doing roles written for African-Americans. That's all we end up thinking about as we listen.

But once you've avoided the obvious faux pas, there's a considerable range. Can a non-blonde (Asian) ingenue do a funny up-tempo comedienne's song, balanced by a subtle leading lady ballad? Absolutely. She just has to be credible.

You also asked about lead sheets. Theatrebroad is right. I wouldn't use them for auditions. Many accompanists are terrific professionals and they can handle anything. But some cannot, and it's a chance you don't want to take. I'd recommend finding a college music major who can work up an accompaniment and print it out using one of the current software packages. Just have your daughter check with the composer to make sure he's comfortable with that. He may want her to make sure that his name appears on the music, with the word "copyright" attached, just so the piece doesn't get copied illegally.

By Notarebel (Notarebel) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:23 pm: Edit

Doctorjohn - Can you think of a list of monologues off the top of your head that you and other auditors see way too many times in auditions? Thanks, Kirsten

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Thanks, Susan, I was wondering that, too. (resume vs theater resume)

By Shauna (Shauna) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Jrmom and Susan,

I made two, and if in doubt, sent both. When at the audition, I just asked them if they would rather have just the theatre one or both, and the answers varied.

However, I do not think this is necessary. I made an academic resume because I considered my academic record one of my strong points, but for someone who is not as strong in that area it might not be a good idea to type it up when most programs won't see the stats anyway.

Shauna

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Susan, I can answer your question about the resume. Emily is still away participating in Stratford's conservatory program. When she auditioned at Tisch (and I know you'll confirm this prior to your daughter auditioning), the regular resume/extracurricular list went with the application. The drama resume was given to the auditors on audition day, along with the headshot. The admissions office didn't want the drama resume and the auditors didn't want the e/c resume. :)

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Doctorjohn--
"Can a non-blonde (Asian) ingenue do a funny up-tempo comedienne's song, balanced by a subtle leading lady ballad? Absolutely. She just has to be credible." I love it. That's what suits my D's desire--to show her range in voice and character both. That's a great idea, too, about what to do with the songs on lead sheets. I haven't even corrected what the piano teacher said to D yet, so now I have some good news to add to it.

Everything I learn on this thread is so valuable. My D has so much drive and determination, she's just pulling me along. It's great that I can help her by sharing what I learn from all of you!

About the resumes: it seems so strange to me that theatrical resumes don't give dates. Dates of employment are such standards of the non-theatrical world that it seems like cheating not to include them. Can I assume that the theatrical resume to turn in at audition time is a standard one--without dates or details AND restricted to one page? And that UMich is asking for something very unlike what the other schools wants? (Theatermom: "an EXTENSIVE resume listing any and all of her training and performance experience in acting, singing and dance including representative repertoire. The format for this resume was very carefully delineated in the application materials.") BTW, Theatermom, thanks so much for your UMich info. The school there did tell my D that she doesn't need stellar scores to be accepted for the audition because it's not a general acceptance to the university. If this is all true, it's the same it's been for decades at UM because a friend of mine went there for voice/music in the late sixties--and she had close to a B average in h.s. Just to make sure the facts are correct, eventually I'll call them myself and confirm what they told my D.

Unlike most of you, my D has one more year before starting this process, but we're planning ahead. My D's list of schools keeps changing. She just found out that she isn't being allowed to audition for Tisch (Dad has a say in all this--in fact, we're only allowing him one say--and that's no NY for a freshman). Since Tisch is the only program that takes 80 students (really more than that since a student can switch after two years to CAP 21 if they get into another studio), it gets really dicey to figure out what else to audition for. Schools like Otterbein and CMU seem to literally only take about four girls per year! Those odds are beyond daunting. With Tisch in there, a student has a little more breathing room, I think.

I've been thinking about Caitie going to UMiami with all the storm news about Florida today. I hope you're okay out there, Caitie!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:28 pm: Edit

Alwaysamom, I am glad you read this and thanks for the response. That is exactly what I recall Emily telling me last year when I was not really ready to deal with this but was merely looking ahead as I had another daughter applying to college, not for MT, at that time. Your daughter is the greatest (but you know that, lol) and I hope she will come back on here when she has time in the future as she has unselfishly shared with those who come after. Hope she is having a blast at her summer program.

My daughter has proceeded with this resume plan. Shauna, by the way, I was not meaning academic type qualifications on either resume. My other daughter (and now this one) had an activities/awards resume, but this did not have things like stats or stuff like that. It was the kind of information asked for on an application but elaborated on and organized into a document...their EC activities and accomplishments in those, leadership, community service, summer experiences, work/internships, academic awards, interests. This is not the same as the theatrical resume that lists all the roles/shows, etc. There obviously is overlap between both of these such as performing arts activities/training. The theatrical resume she has. This other one she worked on this afternoon and then I will be looking it over. She had her sister's as a good example. She also will be giving this to those who write her recs and so she is trying to get this done so she can ask people for recs this Sept.

Thanks Alwaysamom, for confirming what Emily said. I have not looked at my D's draft yet of the regular resume to send with her app, but she was wondering how to condense all that theater experience into just one activity, lol. The theatrical resume has all these shows/roles but I told her this one can't say all that but can maybe summarize or highlight it. Sound about right to you?

Susan

By Baymom (Baymom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Thanks to all for the terrific posts of late. Margaret - I am printing all of your suggestions and posting them on our "MT audition and other deadline calendar" just so we don't forget! Whoever said things are heating up for the class of 2005 was right - the nerves around here are starting like crazy.
I also have a question. A lot of the talk has been about "types" for girls. How about boys? My son was told at his music camp at UWisc this summer that he is the wide-eyed innocent, character actor type (his director was not at all surprised that he was Jack in "Into the Woods") but also said that if he grew a little and filled out (he's 5'10" and skinny as a rail) he could be a leading man type because he is good looking and has the voice range. First, are those "typical" types for males and second, just how important are looks? Any input is greatly appreciated!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, just to reflect on what you wrote in your last post about Tisch....there are about 60 students in a class (grade level, not classroom) at Cap21. They accept 80 to get 60. The other schools that might end up with 15 kids might accept 22 or some such to arrive at that final number. To compare any school, you gotta talk either accepted numbers or matriculating numbers, one or the other. Anyway, I don't quite agree with your analysis that it is harder to get into a school that takes less kids. It is all in ADMIT RATES. NYU, like many of these other MT programs, admits students in the single digit percentage, anywhere between 5-9%, like most of the schools we are discussing. So, while it may feel easier to get in when you see that 60 kids are in the class vs. 15 kids, the admit rate or percentage is similar.

Needless to say, it is daunting! Believe me, I agree!

As far as UMich, perhaps you are more informed than I which I don't doubt in the slightest...but I assumed one would have to be admitted or pass the muster academically for UMichigan and not have easier standards just cause she/he was going for theater. If you heard that the standard for academic qualifications were lowered for this group of kids, that's great, but I did not know that! I know at NYU that is not true. When my D was looking into the schools, she judged the appropriateness of having the school on her list if her "stats" fell comfortably into the range in the college guidebooks for that school. I was just going by that for UMichigan. If you were told that a student did not need as high of qualifications (as is the norm for UMich) to be considered for MT, that's good. I guess I won't worry as much about if she can get in on the academic front then. I just figured that getting into either NYU or Michigan would be more challenging academically than her other MT schools where you basically have to be above a certain standard that is fairly minimal and that's it. NYU and Mich are challenging universities for college admissions in their own right, auditioning aside.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Susan--I'm about the least informed person lol, but if my D is right, then UMich is pretty neat in that it understands that there are other qualities that make good UM grads beyond good test-taking (my D's weak spot). I hope it's true. I totally understand what you're saying about Tisch because of percentages, but there is still something about hearing a school only took FOUR or FIVE girls in one year that is more daunting--at least to me. With 80 for 60 they can take more "Adelaides," more Asian girls, more girls with D's vocal range, more advanced dancers, more girls who part their hair on the left. With 4 girls, there's not much room to monkey with this stuff.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:34 pm: Edit

Soozievt,

Regarding resumes - My D applied to 7 schools last year and we formatted her resume seven different ways. Each school seemed to want the resume presented differently. The 7 resumes that were mailed in with her application usually included both her academic and artistic activities. However, some schools had separate resume requirements for the university and the School of Music or the School of Theatre. For those schools, I sent in a resume listing both academic and artistic activities to the university and a theatre resume to the MT dept. Some schools required that dates be listed for all activities. Some wanted to know approximately how many hours per week she spent participating in an activity. Michigan's requirements were the most involved. When I showed my D's Michigan resume to her vocal coach (CCM's former music director) he had a fit. He instantly said no, no, no! He said it was too long. He told me that what the MT chairs wanted to see was a simple, one page resume that basically hit the highlights of performances and training. I explained that U.M. specified exactly what info they wanted and what order it was to be presented. I recall that the repertoire list they asked for was to list classical and MT vocal literature studied and even to specify which pieces were memorized and which had been performed publicly. I don't think I ever convinced the coach that we were doing what U.M. asked. I decided that his advice to be succinct was wise in the audition room. Most of the schools my D auditioned for asked to have a headshot and resume presented in the audition room even if one had been mailed in earlier with her application. Her vocal coach advised her to walk in with a headshot and resume even if one was not asked for. I helped D prepare one theatrical resume to go on the back of her headshot. It was pretty similar to the resume she uses for non-college auditions. This resume remained the same for every school, whereas the resumes she mailed in with her applications were all different from each other. D used the following headings on her universal resume: Performing Experience, Dance Training, Actor Training, Vocal Training, Choreography and Directing Experience, Teaching Experience, Awards, and Special Skills. Under Dance, Actor, and Vocal Training we listed my D's most important teachers and institutions by name. Her coach told her this was a smart thing to do. The theatre world is small and many of the theatre types know each other. Her training was commented on at almost every school she auditioned for. She had 9 years of various arts classes at CCM prep. Most of the auditors had a question or two about CCM. The awards D listed were, of course, only her arts awards. Her academic awards were included on the resumes she turned in to the universities. Special skills included her SAFD stage combat certification, being a quick learner, and something silly - she does a ridiculous goat imitation. Her coach insisted it had to go on the resume! He told her that listing something unusual would make her more memorable. My D's universal resume was glued to the back of her headshot. There are some commercial places that will print your resume on the back of your headshot. We have been using the spray glue method for a few years and have had no trouble with it. D's coach advised her it was okay. He said that one thing he and the other auditors at CCM always looked for when they perused student resumes was four staples - one in each corner to hold the headshots and resumes together. He told D that it looks very unprofessional not to have the headshot and resume securely attached. Besides - you don't want them coming apart!

I will advise all not to make one mistake we made with the resume. In my D's headings for Dance, Actor, and Vocal training she listed how many years of training she had in each area in the header. She listed 4 years of training in the Vocal category. Under the header she listed her 4 voice teachers' names. It did occur to me that some auditors might misinterpret this to mean that she had a different voice teacher during each of the 4 years she took lessons. D actually studied with her 1st teacher for 3 years. At the end of 10th grade, she went to a summer vocal workshop with a singer who had had leads in the European tours of "Phantom" and "Jekyll and Hyde". He graduated with a degree in voice from U.M. and was a rising young opera singer. He switched to MT at around age 24. After working with him during the summer, my D decided she wanted to study with him full time, so she changed teachers. Unfortunately, he moved to Europe at the end of her junior year. He set her up with a new teacher, a voice faculty member at CCM, before he left. We decided that since she was facing college audition season with a new teacher, we needed to find her a vocal coach too. We ended up sending her to CCM's former music director. SO...since last July, she's had 2 voice teachers. We thought that if any auditor wondered about why she'd had 4 voice teachers in 4 years they would ask. I don't think that studying with one teacher for 3 years, another teacher for one year, and switching to two new teachers for senior year is a mortal sin! Especially since sticking with teacher number two would have involved a commute to Germany. Unfortunately, at one prestigious East coast school, when my D handed the dept.chair her resume in the audition room, he looked it over,then snottily said, "Hmm, four voice teachers in four years." He sighed dramatically, then said, "Let's hear it." She felt like she wasn't being given a chance to explain why she'd had 4 teachers. She had the impression that he'd already written her off before she auditioned. She believes that he decided that she was either a little prima donna who was always dissatisfied with her teachers or that her teachers were "firing" her for some reason. The dept. chair at this school was the only person in the audition room other than the accompanist. My D was not at all surprised that she was rejected. I was. I didn't figure out why she was rejected until about a month ago. She didn't mention the 4 voice teachers comment to me until then. Thankfully, that school was not at the top of her list. After her audition she completely lost interest in that program. Part of her loss of interest was due to the dept. chair's snap judgement of her. I regret that her resume caused him to jump to the wrong conclusion. At the same time, I don't think I'd want my D spending 4 years under his tutelage. I realize that auditions are stressful to the auditors too, but I expected a bit better from a professional, especially since my D auditioned on the 1st day of his school's on-campus auditions.

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:35 pm: Edit

DoctorJohn, I'm not sure if youve shared this info before, but could you tell us How many people auditioned for MT last year, and is that about the average amount of people who audition?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:37 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, true, I get your point (about the numbers)!

I hear you on the testing. I do hate those tests! But in any case, I don't know how many times your D has taken them but if she has only taken them once, one way to raise her score is to get 10 Real SATs and have her do timed practice tests. Often, just doing that, can raise the score. Worth a try for October as a little insurance. I don't know your daughter's case so just put this idea out there.
Susan

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:52 pm: Edit

So....dumb question. Do you glue the resume on or staple it? Does it matter?

Dancersmom, you said you glued it but the auditioners always look for staples????

I'm so out of my field here that I can't tell what is a minor detail and what is a career ending mistake. (I'm sort of kidding)

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Dancersmom, thanks for relaying your post too. I did not see it when I posted above.

As my D has not yet started the actual applications and I realize each may ask for something different, for now, she has her theatrical resume and her application activity type resume (similar to a normal student). If a college wants some variation of either of these, she can work off of these and revise. For instance that thing about a repetoire list, is not on either of these resumes, but can be made as well.

Things like hours per week, weeks per year, total number of years, and what not, I am used to. I have a kid who just applied to college and she developed an extensive well organized resume. The younger one used hers as an example today for the application type resume. My kids have always put in total number of years on an activity, not just what high school grades they did them in because they have been immersed in these activities since they were little so they try to show the total number of years of involvement. On the theater resume, she has not given teacher names, just the places, except her voice teacher (which is not really a 'place') and actually his name would be known in NYC as he teaches there half the week and here in VT half the week. But for the rest, she never listed teacher names, not sure who would know these, but maybe she should add? The places are sometimes recognized. Actually as she has auditioned in NYC, including Broadway, I can tell you that auditioners in NYC have chatted with her when they see her summer program listed (again no teacher/director names) as they seem familiar with it. I recall one audition where someone on the panel had even gone there and that guy and my D were all excited and chatting about the summer place! But the other people she works with here in VT, no, they are not gonna know! It is not like you have with CCM there! LOL I don't think any other place/person on her resume they would know except she has performed at some "known" places like Kennedy Center or with known symphonies. So, not sure she needs to list teacher names or not. For now, she does not use those. She has always listed where the training or productions were at.

Not talking college auditions but just general theater ones, she has usually used a glue stick to attach a resume to back of headshot. I do not like the idea of printing it on as one is always updating the resume and once you have it on every headshot, you cannot do that.

Anyway, thanks for all that you have shared.

It is too bad what that auditioner commented to your daughter to start off the audition. It is ok that he made that observation but he rushed to judgement and did not let her respond. My child has only had one voice teacher ever so I guess that one thing won't come up with that guy if she meets him in the audition room, lol, but something else could!

Susan

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Jrmom,
I don't think your question is dumb at all. I think that gluing the headshot and resume looks better than stapling. I think that my D's coach's point was that the auditors at CCM wanted to see that the kids had enough sense to securely attach resume to headshot. I have read somewhere else (sorry, I can't remember where exactly, but it was in regard to professional auditions, not college) about auditors looking for those staples. My D's coach retired about 7 years ago. Computers are a lot more common throughout the general population now. We actually printed our D's headshots on our printer at home. Professional looking resumes done on a home computer are possible today. A few years ago kids doing a resume for college would have had to do them on a typewriter. My D's coach showed us some actual resumes of former CCM students last fall. They were resumes that the kids had compiled during their senior year of college. Some were well done; some were not. We were shown good and bad examples. Some kids had paper-clipped resume and headshot together - not good! Some had used staples and some had used spray glue. I think that the spray glue looks more professional. I believe that the professional standard today is a professionally printed 8 1/2 X 11 headshot with resume on the back. Using the spray glue was my way of achieving a more professional-looking result without going to the expense of having my D's headshots and resumes printed by a pro. Warning! It takes a steady hand to get the two pieces of paper to line up perfectly. It takes a little practice.

Soozie,

Sounds like your D is on the right track with her resume. Once a student has made a master list of all his or her activities, awards, community service, etc., it is fairly easy to reformat it to suit any particular school's requirements. The most important thing for rising seniors to do at the end of the summer is to sit and think and put all that stuff in a computer file.

Regarding teacher names on the resume: I only listed teachers that I thought might be known. My D had 12 years of dance training when she started her senior year of H.S. She certainly did not list every dance teacher's name on her resume. She listed CCM Prep as a place where she studied dance. She was in their pre-professional ballet program from 4th grade on. She listed 2 of the dance teachers from CCM ballet by name. Both had been dept. chairs of the college ballet program and also taught in the prep program. The 1st teacher is now the ballet chair at the U. of Utah and has strong ties to Ballet West. The 2nd teacher was at Interlochen for several years before coming to CCM. One of her jazz dance teachers used to teach for CCM MT, so her name was listed. Her private tap teacher is pretty well known in the mid-west, so her name was also listed. We listed all 4 voice teachers' names. The former CCM music director for obvious reasons. Her current classical voice teacher is a CCM faculty member, so we thought her name might be recognized at some places. The voice teacher that is now in Germany is somewhat known. I know he is definitely known at U.M. and at CCM. D's 1st voice teacher is probably not known outside of Cinti., but we listed her name in an attempt to be complete and fair. In general, I think it is pointless to put a teacher's name on a student's resume unless that teacher's name would be recognized. D's coach did tell us when he was showing us his former students' resumes that it was a good idea to list well known teachers' names. He criticized some of his kids for not putting his name (or any of their other CCM teachers' names)on their resumes!

You are right about not printing the resume on the headshot. We didn't do that for the same reason. We are constantly updating D's resume and don't want to have 100 headshots with this month's resume. Most of the professional printing companies require you to do a minimum number of copies. Seems like it is around 75 to 100. We figured we'd only need a maximum of two headshots/resumes for each school. (Some schools asked for a headshot to be mailed in with the application.) We have tried printing a resume on the back of a headshot, but it didn't work. Maybe some of you have had better luck with that.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:03 am: Edit

Dancersmom...then I think she will just do her resume as she always has...she does mention the place but not the teachers. As I said she has to mention the voice teacher's name as that is not a place. His name would be recognized by those in NY, not necessarily elsewhere. And as I mentioned her summer program or one or two places might be recognized but as I said, no names so we don't use 'em. In fact, on her theatrical resume that we have always used, the places/theater names are not recognizable so we usually add which state it is in. (not counting places on her resume like Kennedy Center or Toronto Symphony, lol). But these places in VT, yeah! Remember, you live in a city and your D trained at a KNOWN place. That is not true of my D's local training (not counting summers).

Your D's background at CCM surely had to look good and was recognizable! And as I mentioned previously, sometimes that is a discussion starter in an audition as my kid has experienced when people recognize her summer program on her resume if we are in NY.

I truly do not believe you must print the resume on the back, but surely must attach it. The story you told of the person at CCM showing you seniors' resumes surprises me because you would think by their fourth year at a place like CCM, the students would know JUST what to do. I mean, even little 'ole me with no background in MT knows about attaching the resume to the headshot! LOL

Susan

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:34 am: Edit

I swear, something must get into the water every once in awhile in Vermont, Pennsylvania, California, and here in Ohio, to say nothing of the rest of the country. We can go two or three days with almost no posts, and then suddenly within five hours write 5000 words between us.

OK, since I was up anyway watching "Seabiscuit" (what a beautiful film!), let's see if I can get caught up here. First, Kirsten, a list of monologues we see much too often. I can't do any better than CCM's list. I don't know whether Aubrey Berg or Terrell Finney wrote the piece, but it's right on the mark. Go to:

http://www.ccm.uc.edu/musical_theatre/dos.htm

and make sure you look as well at:

http://www.ccm.uc.edu/musical_theatre/audition.htm

No tuna fish, please.

Mtmommy, you worried about the chances for Asian-belter-advanced-dancer-Adelaides-who-part-their-hair-on-the-left when we only take four girls per year. The implication is that we're only interested in these types after we've taken all the Miss Americas. Not so, at least not for us. Because we take so few, we must look for actors who are different. In the incoming MT class, there is a 5'2" Hispanic dancer from San Antonio, a 5'8" mezzo leading lady from Florida, a 5'6" comedienne with a lovely legit soprano (a somewhat unusual combination) from North Carolina, and a 5'7" belter character woman from Columbus--all brunettes. They are balanced by three blondes (all very different) and a black girl in the Acting program. So all those unique actors out there should not despair.

Baymom, you asked if there are types for boys as well. Yes. Juveniles, ingenues, young leading men, comics, character men. Obviously, these are broad categories. But take the men in "Seabiscuit" for instance: Tobey Maguire, Jeff Bridges, Chris Cooper and William H. Macy. Couldn't be more different, and that's intentional. It's like using different colors in a painting or different instruments in a symphony. There's not a lot you can do if your palette only has one color. Do "looks" matter? Yes, for the leading men--Jeff Bridges, Tom Cruise, Paul Newman. And yes, but not in the sense you meant, for the others. Actually, the more unique the look for the other types, the better. "The Good Girl" is playing in the background as I write this, and I've just watched Jennifer Aniston with John C. Reilly and Tim Blake Nelson--Beauty and the Beasts. The movie would not work if the guys looked like the men on "The Guiding Light"--good news for us character types. On the other hand, I can't imagine "Guiding Light" working with John C. Reilly and Tim Blake Nelson, so there's always work for beautiful people.

Mtfan, you asked about how many auditioned for us this year. I have shared it before, but let me go into more detail. I'm giving away trade secrets here, but it may help everyone to understand better how this works, at least for us.

We had 101 women audition for MT in 2004. We have four slots. Because all of our first-round choices last year accepted, we only made four offers this year, and we put five on the waiting list. Two accepted immediately. One, a local girl, decided to go to USC--not so much for the MT program, but because she wanted to leave home and--I suspect--she wanted an ocean. We offered her slot to the girl who was her type who was on the waiting list, and she accepted right away. The last girl we made an initial offer to finally turned us down--late in the process--to go to Ithaca, closer to home, which was more important to her than she initially thought. So one turned us down to get farther away from home, and one turned us down to stay closer. Go figure. Because the last girl was a dancer, we made an offer to the next dancer on the waiting list. But she had, in the meantime, decided to go to Sheridan in Toronto. So we went to the next dancer. But although she had waited to see if she would get an offer from us, Baldwin-Wallace had made her an early offer and that finally tipped the scales in their direction. That happens. At that point, we were out of dancers whom we thought were strong enough singer-actors to do well in the program, so we turned to a character woman and she accepted.

How to report this? Well, I could say that we accepted 4 out of 101 for an acceptance rate of less than 4%. But that's not really accurate. We actually made offers to 8 women to get the 4 we wanted, and that doesn't count the woman who auditioned for MT whom we accepted in the BFA Acting program. She makes 9. So the real BFA acceptance rate was closer to 9%.

But in addition we offered 3 women places in the BA Theatre program, and 11 places in the Dance Minor program; the Music Department also made 21 offers to MT auditionees to come to us as vocal performance majors. If you count all of those, it means we (including Music) made offers to 45% of the students who auditioned for MT. That's not such bad odds, depending on how you look at it.

As for men, we saw half as many (47 to be precise), and eventually made offers to 8 to get 4. So the BFA acceptance rate there was about 16%. As for acting majors, we saw 43 women and 23 men, and the rates were similar.

To sum up, we saw around 250 students and made around 30 offers to get the 16 we can afford to take in Acting and Musical Theatre. Those are fairly typical numbers for us. I know that my colleagues around the country report much higher numbers of students auditioning, but they also take more students than we can. I'd guess the percentages end up being similar.

I hope this helps illuminate the process a little better. Oh, glue or staples. Not really important to me. But one or the other--not paper clips--and please make sure your name and address are on the back of the photo in case it gets separated from the resume.

Thanks. 'Night, all.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 06:53 am: Edit

Thanks again, Doctorjohn, for another illuminating post. Somehow that walk through your process made it so much more clear how this works.

Does this mean it is important for the student to walk into the audition room being pretty clear that "I'm the character actress/comedienne who is strongest in acting, but becoming a strong singer with instruction who also has a strong dance background from years of dance"?

I would think it would help each kid to recognize their strenths and also recognize that they are not competing with the younger looking blonde soprano types (is that what an ingenue is?).

After reading Doctorjohn's post I can see that the two (or 3, or 4) types of applicants really are not competing in the way that I had imagined earlier.

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 08:27 am: Edit

The short answer, Jrmom, is "yes". Students should be very clear about who they are, and recognize that they're not competing with everyone else. Thesbohemian, Wct and I had this conversation on the other thread, "Theater/Drama Colleges" part 2, starting on June 2. To repeat my concluding statement, "When programs say they take "the most talented" regardless of race, sex, religion, I have to smile. It's just not possible. Nor is it fair. If you take 20 blonde ingenues, you will inevitably pit them against each other for casting opportunities. It makes more sense to put together a fairly balanced class, reasonably divided between men and women, voice parts, coloring and "types". That way, each actor is encouraged to develop his or her unique humanity, rather than being focussed on being better than everyone else. So, Thesbo, the real answer to your question is that, in most cases, you're competing for entrance with other equally talented people who look like you. Realistically, you're not competing with the dark-haired male baritone who auditioned just before you."

The whole conversation is worth reading. Thesbo's comments were great.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 02:04 pm: Edit

Wow! Doctorjohn, thanks for that answer about how you choose students for your program. A 45% chance at some kind of offer certainly is more comforting than just a no. One question: My D is interested in the fact that Otterbein has the dance emphasis in MT (sorry, I don't have the terminology correct). Is that why you look for dancers or will other schools also be on the lookout for advanced dancers?

Susan--Thank you so much for your concerns about my D's testing. She's a junior, so she has an extra year, but I'll look into that SAT study system. She has text anxiety, so she goes into a classroom test very prepared and knowledgable and then bombs it. She still has an A- GPA, but that's because she does outstanding on everything but the tests. I spent a ludicrous amount of money for my son to take the Kaplan course three years ago--and his score dropped. I don't know if it's the course or it's him, so I don't want to do that for her if it's the course's "fault." Plus, how to fit that in with all the other activities.

Resume question for anyone: if the resume needs to fit on the back of a headshot like a regular theatrical resume, how does one fit dates on it? Or is it only for experience, not training? And how small can the font be?

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:50 pm: Edit

DOCTOR JOHN - THANKS FOR THE INFO ON MONDAY AUDITIONS IN L.A. EVEN IF 2 OF THOSE YOU MENTIONED WOULD AUDITION ON MONDAY, THAT MIGHT SAVE US A TRIP TO CHICAGO OR EVEN TO THE SCHOOLS. I'LL WATCH FOR YOUR POSTINGS AND BE CHECKING MYSELF AS WELL.

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Mtmommy: Yes, we have a dance concentration in MT, but we're not the only college interested in dancers. Others have posted here before with names of schools where dance is quite strong, and dancing ability is valued. Jump in, please, everyone. Where besides Florida State, Elon, Michigan, Point Park, SUNY Buffalo?

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Yes, we need more MT programs with dance for the FAQ! Let's hear about dance at places we haven't heard much about! (Sounds of encouragement here . . . ) What is dance like at Shenandoah? At Hartt? Webster? Baldwin-Wallace? My D and I would like to know the quality and quantity of dance, but also if it helps to be an advanced dancer to get into any of these programs. If dance isn't part of the audition, do the schools notice it on the resumes and take note--or doesn't it really matter at a lot of schools?

By Baymom (Baymom) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Doctor John - Thanks for your your response - you are a real blessing for us. Your willingness to share is incredible! I especially appreciate your commenting on the male character types. It's been hard to connnect with people on the "boy" issues since so many more parents I know have girls interested/involved in MT. Thanks again.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Other schools where dance is clearly valued: Syracuse (my D said they had one of the most thorough and challenging dance auditions she experienced), Penn State and CCM (they had current junior and senior students demo a very demanding dance routine and an ensemble song for all the auditioners as a group, RIGHT before they went in to audition. The Director told them, "See. That's what we're looking for." My daughter said the manner in which it was said made it feel like it was purposefully done to intimidate them rather than to inspire them and described it as "rude" behavior. She also described the Director as "Dr Evil"......)

As long as I'm posting again (and, yes, DrJohn, there does seem to be a radical upswing in the number of posts.....I'm on vacation and the weather has been lousy, hence my numerous/long posts) I want to take a moment to address the students and parents of the Class of '04-'08 and wish them the best as you set off (and we get ready to send you off) on this thrilling next phase of your educational, personal and artistic development. We are so proud of your accomplishments and so excited for the opportunities that await you to work, to learn, to live and grow, to share with others this amazing passion you have. May all of your dreams be realized!!!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Mtmommy...when you asked about how they might know you are good at dance besides from the resume information, some schools have dance as part of the audition. As someone else noted, for instance, Syracuse, Penn State, CCM, and others. At NYU, the dance audition is optional. At NYU, that dance audition cannot hurt you but can only help you, from my understanding. My D is a dancer so she would definitely do the dance audition. Also at NYU, she visited the dance classes in Cap21. They have various levels for placement which is a good thing in my view. A kid who has danced a LOT their whole lives would be ill placed with kids who have barely any dance experience.

Theatermom, that was a lovely well wishing post! While I don't have a kid heading off to a MT program, I do have a daughter about to start college and it is a very exciting time in her life. I hope those who have kids about to begin the journey, stay long enough on the board to share in the fall about how they like their programs, etc. ! Would love to read the follow up!

Doctorjohn, yeah, the forum got more "lively" the last few days, and I am one of those frequent posters lately. For me, my aspiring MT student got home ten days ago from her summer theater program and now this whole college process has become front and center. She is normally so busy with school, homework and all the performing arts ECs and a show, that I wanted her to use the two weeks she had off to get going on her planning and college stuff. So, we have been dealing with it in the past week so my interest is more elevated now. So, it's the timing, not the water! LOL

Susan

By Monkey (Monkey) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Theatremom,
Just wanted to clarify since you mentioned Penn State and CCM in the same sentence regarding schools where dance is emphasized in the audition... "Dr. Evil" must reside at CCM because the auditors are most encouraging at Penn State! Penn State does use 2 current MT upperclassmen to demo the dance routine, but only as a model - not as a standard to be attained at the audition. I think you were actually pretty clear in your post but just wanted to be sure folks know that the Penn State audition, though demanding, is pretty encouraging and friendly terrain!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 07:08 pm: Edit

I've got Syracuse, Penn State, CCM, and Tisch in the FAQ on dance. It's great that Syracuse is that strong in dance, but I don't think my southern CA D would survive the winters there. Ann Arbor is probably about as cold and snowy and icy as she could handle. I'll tell her about the Dr. Evil comment. . . . I think she needs to check out Penn more. But i do wonder about these other programs that we don't hear about much on this thread--the ones like Shenandoah and Baldwin-Wallace. Unfortunately most schools don't seem to want to share videos of their performances for legal reasons.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 08:09 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

We were able to take a look at videos when we were at the schools for auditions. The two schools that we remember seeing videos of school productions were at Shenandoah and SUNY Buffalo.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Dramamama--Thank you so much! We had given up on asking schools b/c of so many nos. If you visited Shenandoah, can you share the experience (if you already did, do you remember the thread?)? We'll have to see if they are willing to mail videos out. It seems like OCU was going to mail us some sort of video a long long time ago, but never did.

By Mtmomtok (Mtmomtok) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit

If Shauna is too busy or not available, who's is going to take over her "mad HTML skills." Cause right now we need to start part 24. I am enjoying all this information. I don't even have to ask anything. It all comes up eventually.

By Gkoukla (Gkoukla) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 11:41 pm: Edit

Dramamama, I'd love to know how the video from Shenandoah was. When my D auditioned there we asked to see a video and they said they couldn't loan us one. Guess it's against the rules.

Thanks.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 11:45 pm: Edit

Gkoukla--Would you be able to share the Shenandoah audition experience with us?

By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 08:39 am: Edit

My, my, my ... Looks like I've gotta catch up on my reading. Y'all got prolific on me this week. Here's the link to a new chapter in the saga.

Part 24 http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/messages/4/84444.html

By 5pants (5pants) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

I just have to chime in here on looks and how that plays a part in colleges casting for their pool.

My twins are identical. Except for a couple inches between the two, they are confused all the time until people get to know them. They have distinctive personality traits which sets them a part from one another. However, when on stage one is a character actor and the other is the leading man type. My character actor son pointed this out at his audition to his auditioners, although I am sure it was pretty obvious as he can make you laugh just by being himself.

We have been debating how this will all work out in the end. There may be times where they are competing for the same role, but most of the time they each realize which role would be better for each other....kind of Gene Kelly vs. Donald O'Connor.

Have you ever offered MT spots to twins before Dr. John...or would you consider it? Obviously Webster wanted both of them...we are curious on your thoughts though.

Thanks!

5pants (Sue)

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Hey everyone! I know it's been a long time, but I just wanted to say hi and let everyone knows how I'm doing. I absolutely am in love with the University of Miami. The people are really friendly, the faculty is so amazing and professional, and everyone in my class is amazingly talented. I firmly believe that U of Miami has great resources at its hands, tons of money (30 million donation), and so on. I definately reccommend the program. However, I do have an exceedingly busy schedule.
If you want a lot of DANCE--this is NOT the place to go. We take 2 dance classes per week and if you are advanced enough you can take up to 4 (but only 2 for credit). However, the dance teacher is AMAZING and his classes are absolutely awesome. He's worked professionally for years and has been teaching here for about 6 years (I believe).
If you have any questions about the school, please feel free to email me! Good luck Class of 2005 in finding your school!
~Caitie


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